I’m really disappointed that we wont see any additions to the elite spec mechanikittenil post-launch. It’s not even like we’re getting enemies to stomp in PvE.

Anyway, if we’re going with this mechanic, can we please please please have a visible animation/effect on your character when the gyro is available to use. Not only is our mechanic sub-par, we absolutely ZERO visual identity to scrapper. I think the best solution is to have the function gyro (as an animation, not a unit) floating over our shoulder while it is not on cooldown.

Hey, I’m so glad to see the increase in communication, having solid information goes a long long way to help resolve fears for the class, as it helps rest the worst case scenarios that the mind dreams up. While I am an avid fan of the game and our wonderful devs, a lot of personal anxiety has stopped me in the past from joining the discussion. Fears of putting my passion and opinion out for all to judge paralyze me, and leave me hoping that others will manage to express my concerns. With that said, I can barely even imagine what it would be like to expose your work as a designer to the vitriol that comes out of forums. I work to keep that in mind, because I admit I had to rewrite this post a couple times to ensure I wasn’t adding lethal doses of salt. I care about the game enough that it’s got the potential to work me up, and I know the devs must care even more so. I really hope both that my voice is heard, but more than that, I hope that it’s helpful, and truly constructive feedback, because we all want the same thing, to continue the guildwars way of being one of if not the most innovative game of its kind.
+many hooray for hammer changes
+1 for Impact Savant change
- Gyro changes sound good and in the right direction. Would still prefer not ai, but if that’s what we got. They’re moving towards what they need to be. I can actually see a full gyro build being a real thing.
- the trait Final Salvo needs a re-examination. This is not strictly because there is anything wrong with it, but rather because the dynamic of the gyros no longer fits with it as the gyro interaction/support trait. Gyros now seem to be developing a much more solid identity as a passive bonus that is activated for a short time, and is POWERFUL at the cost of duration limit and the ability to kill the source. As ever, tuning may be required.
- still no stun breaker?
- gyro destruct effects are still in a weird place. They are highly fit for the blast and shredder, and decent for the bulwark. For the others, they feel odd, as while you receive nice things on death, they aren’t the nice things you need, and don’t really apply. Akin to being given salty food while stranded without water at sea. The thought is appreciated, but isn’t what was really needed at the moment
-super speed is fun, and while I was skeptical about how useful it would be, the vale guardian is all ready proving its worth. Issues included wasted interactions due to it not stacking, and being overshadowed/overwritten by application from other sources ie; the revenant/herald. Also would seem to limit the number of scrapers to a max of 1 in 5 for any given content, as they would step on each other’s toes per say.
+1 Medic Gyro sounds great, and atm, has a bright future as a real alternative to the Omni present healing turret, hinged upon good play.
- Purge Gyro is TBD, hinged on improved functionality. Tool belt is very “eh” and unfit mechanically. A light field would be fitting, as it could combo with the shredder for more condi cleanse.
- Shredder Gyro is interesting, possibly under tuned, possibly misunderstood, somewhat underwhelming at the moment. Double whirl finisher a la the warrior double leap finisher as an interesting experiment? I feel that it has incredible potential (the gyro, not my kitten suggestion). So far in discussions I’ve only seen this theorized to be light space control and/or burst condition application. I could see with higher tuning it providing incredible condition cleanse, aoe blind lockdown, and potentially synergy with medic gyro to increase the healing potential to the hands down best healing skill combo.
-Blast Gyro is fun, but potentially just unusable. The counter play/potential points of failure are just too numerous, the reward too low for it, and it is mechanically disjoint, as it lacks the dynamic of reward for keeping it alive.
Possible change -Something akin to a gyro rocket/thumper turret, a floating shooting deal that tracks/follows/shoots the target tagged for its duration would be more appropriate as it retains all of the current counter play options but increases reliability and deals with a number of unintended points of failure (for example; the gyro doesn’t always spawn near enough to you to provide support for it, and the path it travels based on spawn makes thoughtful combos impossible to set up). also cool I don’t care how salty anyone is over gyros, a gyro that releases smaller explosive gyros is the most amazing thing, like a gun that shoots smaller guns.
+1 Bulwark Gyro was already quite good and enjoyable. Increased QoL is always welcome
- SNEAK GYRO -
Tool belt is cray cray powerful. Like purge, this will live or die by the improved functionality. My new understanding of the skill and the stealth application interval is that your supposed to be a Nika backup/equivalent, flashing in and out of stealth while in a combat scenario. Not a huge fan, but significantly cooler than being an elite skill that makes you a bad Mesmer.
MAJOR CONCERN: both skills feel less like general complements to the spec, and more like specific answers to individual scenarios. Good cause reason to take scrapper. Bad cause it feels bad if you aren’t needed because your good, but because your the only person with the win button required for a couple specific encounters.
- FUNCTION GYRO -
Should honestly have its own thread. I could write a small thesis of my thoughts on it. It is strictly an improvement. It feels deeply underwhelming when held up to other classes. It sits in a bizarre gap of perspective, as it is something that can literally only be understood as a flat out and powerful new tool/buff for the class, but inspires only feelings of jealousy, anger, resentment and betrayal (for me at least, and I suspect a fair number of others) when compared to the breathtaking changes available to other classes. It makes sense thematically and mechanically, and yet could be honestly construed to not change the class in any meaningful sense.
My end take on it, I turn to the dark side, I trust my feelings, I know them to be true. I think that the function gyro is insufficient as a mechanic, and under the current paradigm of use, with one at a time, targetable, and literally only two applications that may not even see real use in PVE content (this is a weird thing, as it acts as a safety net, rendered useless if your group plays well, as you shouldn’t need to res anyone, in person or by bot). Under those restrictions, there is no amount of tuning that will fix this, a mechanic that is barely more than a ranger utility skill. Additionally, it renders the master minor (Decisive Renown) hilariously irrelevant for PVE, 1v1 scenarios and the like.
This is also especially irksome, as it was announced that the Druid class mechanic, would receive an overhual despite its largely warm reception, but that there isn’t time for a engineer re-examination. The criticism of the sneak gyro I made I feel applies to the function gyro as well, the option is nice, the concept is limited and it just feels awful because the it is a set use tool, without the ability to improve upon or exploit the performance by way of gameplay, and indeed creates a tension where scrapers are valued not for their skill but a specific and limiting set of options, that as far as we know, aren’t even useful enough in a PVE setting to justify running! The vale guardian kill engineers were more often then not, not even bothering to run scrapper!
I cannot stress enough how much the flair aspect of the mechanic is integral to the visceral dissatisfaction I feel. A lot of work and love went into the reaper shroud and the Druid cele form. The guardian virtues all make use of more active mechanics and new technology. The berserker and daredevil mechanics are interwoven on an almost second to second level with their gameplay to creat a uniquely different play style. The herald and the chronomancer mechanics are awe inspiring in their game wide potential to shift combat and maximize the class. And while I do not doubt that great effort was put into the engineer and the scrapper, and absolutely recognize that the versatility of the tool belt limited the possibilities for the new mechanic, the function gyro just does not hold up in comparison. Not in terms of interaction with self and other class mechanics, not in terms use from moment to moment, not in terms of unique function and not in terms pure shiny wow factor. I don’t care if the game ships in the scrappers current state, all I need to hear is that the scrapper development cycle will continue full steam after release, not just in monitoring for balance like you would for any new class, but actively working as if we were still in beta.

sorry about the absolute wall of text, but that was the short version

Gyro’s need more than a movement speed increase. Unless you want another set of spirit weapons (cause those turned out so well) gyro’s literally need to sit on your head.

…for the discriminating collector of scrap…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE SCRAPPER

(1) +25 Vitality
(2) 3% of Vitality is converted to Precision
(3) +50 Vitality
(4) +15% stability duration
(5) +100 Vitality
(6) +10% stability duration, +5% damage while you have an active companion.

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

Nike.2631:

…for the discriminating collector of scrap…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE SCRAPPER

(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) +10% stability duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4) 5% of Condition Damage is converted to Vitality
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +7% damage while you have an active companion.

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

hmm..
things i dont like about this set:

• scrapper isnt a condi focus :/
• condi damage + flat power damage, while not mutually exclusive, do not synergize well with each other. could fix by switching the stat boni to power or the damage bonus to condi damage. even cele builds focus on one or the other type of damage while the other type is just along for the ride. plus “damage with active companion” is recycled.
• 10% stab duration is plain weaksauce. 15-20% boon duration, or 30-45% selected duration.
• the 4th bonus… just doesnt do it for me. first, your vit will constantly change as you get and lose might. second, attack stats feeding into defense stats doesnt happen, and for good reason. the other way around is fairly common, but also consider that if you straight up fed vit into condi… then you miss out on a nice synergy with toughness→condi and adaptive armor, even tho that specific bonus is already on a different runeset.

Overall good changes. Impact Savant is still very underwhelming, though. I personally would probably mind less if the elite aspect of functional gyro was less niche. But it is. Give us at least one more universally appealing Minor trait, please.

insanemaniac.2456:

hmm..
things i dont like about this set:

• scrapper isnt a condi focus :/
• condi damage + flat power damage, while not mutually exclusive, do not synergize well with each other. could fix by switching the stat boni to power or the damage bonus to condi damage. even cele builds focus on one or the other type of damage while the other type is just along for the ride. plus “damage with active companion” is recycled.

• 10% stab duration is plain weaksauce. 15-20% boon duration, or 30-45% selected duration.

That will NEVER happen on a (2) slot. The scale of benefits that goes there is pretty plainly mapped out in existing runes.

• the 4th bonus… just doesnt do it for me. first, your vit will constantly change as you get and lose might. second, attack stats feeding into defense stats doesnt happen, and for good reason. the other way around is fairly common, but also consider that if you straight up fed vit into condi… then you miss out on a nice synergy with toughness->condi and adaptive armor, even tho that specific bonus is already on a different runeset.

Tinkering with the first concern may resolve the last. My felling is the Engineer/Scrapper has enough HP threshold abilities that a boost to Vitality should make those thresholds easier to manage.

Revised set up in intial post shortly.

((Of the 6 of these I’ve done, my feel for Scrapper gameplay is probably the weakest, so I’m happy to tune it))

Nike.2631:

That will NEVER happen on a (2) slot. The scale of benefits that goes there is pretty plainly mapped out in existing runes.

yeah dude, spread it out over 2/6 or 2/4/6

So … can blast gyro crit now? :| Everything else is awesome!

Xyonon.3987:

Overall gyro CD still bugs me a bit. You want them to be dead as fast as possible to reuse them again. Just let the CD start at summon, not dead. Increase elite gyro CD a bit.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death.

I’m especially glad you took my advice about the CD start when the gyro is created! _

Furthermore I hope you spread this same system to other professions, like elementals, spirit weapons and mantras.

Xyonon.3987:

So … can blast gyro crit now? :| Everything else is awesome!

Xyonon.3987:

Overall gyro CD still bugs me a bit. You want them to be dead as fast as possible to reuse them again. Just let the CD start at summon, not dead. Increase elite gyro CD a bit.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death.

I’m especially glad you took my advice about the CD start when the gyro is created! _

Furthermore I hope you spread this same system to other professions, like elementals, spirit weapons and mantras.

They did that once with mantras,.dear god….the horrors man. The horrors. DONt MAKE ME RELIVE THaT!

Thanks for the update Irenio!

• I’m quite happy with the changes to hammer. I agree that it is overall a solid weapon but the changes you make bring it in line with what I feel should be expected from a 2H weapon. I didn’t think any sort of flat damage increase was necessary, and I’m glad to see we get an effective increase with the auto attack aftercast fixes. QOL changes to both Rocket Leap and Shock Shield are very appreciated.

• I’m interested in what the “systemic” change is that will make gyros more survivable. I interpret this to mean something that is not changing specifically for gyros but across the whole game? This is intriguing. Of course making them faster and better at sticking to us will do a lot for the couple gyros that I find useful for something. I still very much do not like Blast/Shredder/Purge gyros, each has reasons to me why I would never use it over another option. I hope the functionality of these are being looked at, if not for HOT launch then in the not too distant future afterwards.

• Thanks for the function gyro changes, and for the acknowledgement that it may need more work after HOT launches. This acknowledgement must not have been easy after all the work that has already gone into it, and I appreciate that you are willing to make further changes and potential rework. I’m still not a fan of a 20s cooldown, but I understand that balance needs to be done in small slices not large chops and I’m glad this was something you agree needs to be looked at. No word of the stomp duration though, is this intended to be twice as long as a normal player stomp? I sure hope not, takes a ton of usability out of what is already a very limiting mechanic.

• Gyro cooldown start on summon!! This was a huge change to me, thank you for making it. I firmly believe this was the first and most important step gyros needed to even consider being competitive. Other changes could be made with their mechanics and survivability but the best option would have still almost always been to destroy them after getting their immediate effects to use them faster. Great change here.

• Impact Savant change was a needed one, I’m glad you agree. I still believe the minor traits as a whole are very underwhelming and the major minor is still very niche. I’m eager to see what other trait changes you have made for HOT launch!

Thanks again for the communication.

Nice changes, I have to admit I was a little dissapointed in the scrapper at the start of the beta, but after a while I started to like and then loved it.

I think alot of the feed back people have given on gyros and the other things are rly good and constructive (most of it atleast), and so I believe these changes are a very good start.

(y) thumbs up

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot.

Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Hi!

Can guardian spirit weapons get the same treatment? Tell Karl.

Thanks!

Farzo.8410:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Gyros are going to be affected by a systemic change that should increase their survivability quite a lot.

Gyros now start their cooldown upon summon rather than upon gyro death.

Well wishes,
~ Irenio

Hi!

Can guardian spirit weapons get the same treatment? Tell Karl.

Thanks!

Well, since the changes are ‘systemic’ it sounds like they intend to change some overall behavior about ‘pets’.

Could explain why the devs have been so coy about the changes.

Thank you for the response. I’ll offer some feed back on my thoughts on what has been said.

First the hammer. I really like the changes that have been implied by this and think if it works like it sound it should be great. I do have one concern and that is the vulnerability. I see it overloading and over lapping. Once it hits 25 stacks it is useless. And with everybody and their brother using it it just looses it’s appeal. I’m not saying it isn’t a good thing to use. But once you get up there it offers no bonus. That being said the same thing applies to might. This is not only an engineer problem but seeing as the hammer has so much impact on vulnerability I feel it is perfect time to offer some thoughts.

So what if the target has a 25 stack of vulnerability when hammer hits it it causes a backlash or charge blast that stuns in an area of effect. Or something of that nature.
If you have 25 stacks of might and hit with an attack that would add more Maybe it gives an aoe quickness effect. This would give more impact for having max stacks. It could eat some stacks and have a cool down But that is just a thought on this.

I will have to play the wait and see on the gyro utility skills at this point but sounds like they could be better. Impact Savant sounds good.

As for the traits that offer super speed I would hope that if they do not make super speed stack you would think about changing it to quickness.

I would also like the tool belt skill Bypass Coating to be changed to quickness but that may be just me.

Chemical Field & Spare Capacitor tool belt skills would be more fun if they was ground target or perhaps attached like Reconstruction Field is.

As for the function gyro I know time has ran out to change it but I still hope that we will have an elite mechanic that will identify the scrapper with more then a rez and stomp bot. As it stands it is still pretty useless in my opinion. I hope that you will keep us in the loop on what is happening with that. I won’t apologize for my “saltiness” This post should have been the response to my question.

Thank you for the time hope that my feedback helps

RunicAura.9860:

…

So what if the target has a 25 stack of vulnerability when hammer hits it it causes a backlash or charge blast that stuns in an area of effect. Or something of that nature.
If you have 25 stacks of might and hit with an attack that would add more Maybe it gives an aoe quickness effect. This would give more impact for having max stacks. It could eat some stacks and have a cool down But that is just a thought on this.

…

I like this. I’m not sure it works well on an auto attack chain that you can’t really time well when you see the target with max Vuln stacks, or you have max Might, but this sort of idea on a skill is pretty neat.

I dislike it because it’s the aa chain that gives such mighty boons / stuns. But the overall idea is good. Maybe weaker versions of that like “if you have 25 stacks might = not stacking 15 sec buff that grants you 5% dmg boost”. So it would encourage you to do an aa chain from time to time IF you have 25 stacks might, but not camp it.

Yet I’m still a bit worried about the condi cleanse and shredder gyro. Their effects seem underwhelming and I’d probably never ever take them over the EG. And please please just tell me the blast gyro doesn’t miss anymore AND can crit :P

Any news about the “detonate gyro” skills?

Xyonon.3987:

…

And please please just tell me the blast gyro doesn’t miss anymore AND can crit :P

…

It already doesn’t miss and can crit.

Look for yourself.

Thanks thanks thanks!
This clears up most of my concenrs about Scrapper. I already loved playing Scrapper during the beta and now i’ll just love playing it even more.

My only “big” concern is the actual Function Gyro. Even though it’s supposedly working properly now, (thanks once again!) it’s still something that’s very situational.

Most other mechanics really define their elite spec or are useful pretty much all the time.
Reaper’s shroud changes the way they play.
Chronomancer’s Continuum split can see use everywhere by resetting their cooldowns.
Druid’s Celestial Avatar: healing raids, wvw zergs, pvp allies,…
Daredevil’s extra (modified) dodges for more survivability, damage,…
etc.

Most, if not all (i haven’t played all myself) either change the way a class plays completely or just have mechanics that are useful anywhere in the game.

Scrapper’s Function Gyro does NOT change the way Scrapper plays in the slightest and neither is it useful other than maybe pvp or smallscale wvw roaming.

In PvE its not even hard to res people yourself don’t need a Gyro to do it for you and in WvW zergs it will just die too fast to matter, even if it does get buffed health.
And even in PvP and roaming its VERY situational.

Who knows, maybe something gets added to it in the future.

Only other thing i want now is to see how the Juggernaut effect looks on medium armor, might have to start farming for that. :P

Thank you Ireno! Gyros look better now! Buuuut I think I’ll stick with healing turret and a kit (even though I want all gyros!)

Great post, Korra.

Irenio, thank you very much for the info.

Overall, the number tweaks look very promising to me, and the “systemic change” to the gyro’s survavility sound really interesting.

I’m also glad you finally mention the elite specialization mechanic. We knew the Scrapper wasn’t going to get deep changes prior to HoT and be stuck with an aesthetically and functionally weak mechanic, but your words at least clear the topic, and open the door for later development. (I really hope the “post-launch expansion of functionality” becomes more than a mere “possibility”. And for the working times for it not being so long as with other, years old, engie problems…)

There was a suggestion awhile back that I thought was a good one. That was unique destruction effects on the gyros. Perhaps in place of Final Salvo or combined with it. If Destroyed by time or damage then it would kick off how final salvo is now if destroyed by self-destruct it could do another function Giving the player a strategic choice.

Any word on Superspeed stacking?

Now even Guardian get stunbreak on traps and stability on one trap and engi have less stability and dont get a stunbreak or even stability in gyro line, nice one.

“Fragments of Faith: Fixed this trap striking multiple times. Base damage has been reduced by 40% and is no longer unblockable. This ability is now instant and breaks stuns, as well as granting 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when triggered. note: The design of this trap is moving back toward its defensive nature and has much more functionality than before, thus the reduction in overall damage.”

Hey, Guards will be happy to see Engis get a stunbreak gyro as soon as you hand over the sweet cooldown-starts-when-summoned that our gyros (spirit weapons) have been in dire need of for the last two years. Win-win, right?

Honestly you’d think after seeing the need to spread stunbreaks across skill lines that lead to the big shuffle shortly after launch looking over new lines to find which one might be most suitable to be a stunbreak would be part of the process by now.

Engis have nearly no stability Elixir B Throw or be in Flamethrower all the time both is bad, so a Scrapper is a bruiser without stability. You can have your cooldown starts at summon but why get a class that have already good stability uptime more stability, makes no sense.

I for my self play at the moment only Guardian or Ele in WvW cause none want a engi for frontline or backline. I hoped HoT would change it but they are to much focused on the pvp bs.

I really like the hammer changes! Should make it feel much more smooth.

Our class mechanic still feels like a tagged on afterthought because all the time was spent on druid…

Pride.1734:

all the time was spent on druid…

this change list makes this statement look silly.

insanemaniac.2456:

Pride.1734:

all the time was spent on druid…

this change list makes this statement look silly.

You are completely right. Im sure they spent the same time on creating the function gyro as the celestial form. /sarcasm

Celestial form took like 4.2 minutes after Guards had their Tome of Courage pickpocketed by those tricksey Rangers. The rest is just FX work.

…Distracting us with their dancing bear was just dirty pool.

Yea man they got a full guardian kit. We only got a ranger utility…

insanemaniac.2456:

Pride.1734:

all the time was spent on druid…

this change list makes this statement look silly.

Scrapper change list is in no way more time consuming than the Druid one. Yet Druid is already in a good spot and has a proper elite spec mechanic…

Ardid.7203:

insanemaniac.2456:

Pride.1734:

all the time was spent on druid…

this change list makes this statement look silly.

Scrapper change list is in no way more time consuming than the Druid one. Yet Druid is already in a good spot and has a proper elite spec mechanic…

and yet all the time has obviously not been spent on druid.

What about:

Superior rune of Scrapper

• +25 Toughness
• +10% Daze duration
• +50 Toughness
• +25% chance when struck to daze nearby enemies for 1 sec (Cooldown: 30s)
• +100 Toughness
• +20% Daze duration. When you hit dazed/stuned enemy, cause Ligntining Nova (Cooldown: 30s)
  
  Or more offensive:

• +25 Power
• +10% Daze duration
• +50 Power
• +25% chance when strike to daze nearby enemies for 1 sec (Cooldown: 30s)
• +100 Power
• +20% Daze duration. When you hit dazed/stuned enemy, cause Ligntining Nova (Cooldown: 30s)

Daze might be a good theme, but for the (6) a variation of the Ranger’s damage bonus when you have a companion works in the gyros aspect better with all Scrappers having the function gyro plus the potential of gyros or turrets, both of which trigger the benefit.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Due to a design discussion that arose yesterday the recharge on gyros are going back to starting on the death of the gyro.

To help with the recharge going back to the gyro death the recharge themselves are being dramatically reduced. Below is a before and after to help clarify what is happening.

On Cast Medic Gyro CD: 35s
On Cast Medic Gyro Duration: 14s
CD at full duration: 21s
New Medic Gyro CD on Death: 20s

On Cast Purge/Bulwark CD: 35s
On Cast Duration: 15s
CD at full duration: 20s
New Gyro CD on Death: 20s

On Cast Sneak Gyro CD: 45 seconds
On Cast Duration: 30s
CD at full duration: 15s
New Sneak Gyro CD: 20s

---

This amounts to an overall buff to gyro recharge as the net recharge time is reduced on all gyros except sneak gyro, which is effectively a buff if the sneak gyro would have been destroyed anytime before the final five seconds of its duration.

Blast Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Bypass Coating, is going to be a stunbreak.

And this is why I assume devs are usually pretty hesitant about sharing balance info before they are ‘done-done’. You might catch some kitten for this Irenio.

For what it is worth, I always thought that this is how the Gyros should be fixed.

That being said, what prompted this reversion? I think Gyros still lack that ‘oomph’ needed to truly have them be competitive utilities, do you agree with this? Do you have any plans to address it if you do?

Will the detonation skills get a buff? With the right buff, they could help improve Gyros immensely.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Due to a design discussion that arose yesterday the recharge on gyros are going back to starting on the death of the gyro.

To help with the recharge going back to the gyro death the recharge themselves are being dramatically reduced. Below is a before and after to help clarify what is happening.

On Cast Medic Gyro CD: 35s
On Cast Medic Gyro Duration: 14s
CD at full duration: 21s
New Medic Gyro CD on Death: 20s

On Cast Purge/Bulwark CD: 35s
On Cast Duration: 15s
CD at full duration: 20s
New Gyro CD on Death: 20s

On Cast Sneak Gyro CD: 45 seconds
On Cast Duration: 30s
CD at full duration: 15s
New Sneak Gyro CD: 20s

---

This amounts to an overall buff to gyro recharge as the net recharge time is reduced on all gyros except sneak gyro, which is effectively a buff if the sneak gyro would have been destroyed anytime before the final five seconds of its duration.

Blast Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Bypass Coating, is going to be a stunbreak.

That’s quite positive and even generous in light of their relative fragility.

Spirit weapons will thank you when they get a similar treatment.

Nice to see that the gyro I enjoyed the most is the one getting the stunbreak

As for why the change from “start on cast” to “start on death” I’m guessing it’s so having the gyro get destroyed soon after activation does not become too punishing. Especially since, baring whatever the systemic change hinted at in the OP is, is what is pretty much expected to happen. Having the CD start on cast means that there must be a greater emphasis on balancing the skill based on the user getting the full duration out of the gyro, which can leave those times where it dies in the first 3 seconds even worse than before.

Bypass coating would be pretty awesome as an AoE stunbreak.

I like this cooldown change. I was one of the people that advocated making the cooldowns start immediately to avoid rewarding the player for blowing them up early, but I think this feels more “right.” This also helps the Medic Gyro be a bit more competitive. Healing Turret still needs a small-ish nerf to keep from outperforming everything else, but Medic Gyro’s immediate nature and this new “adaptive” cooldown (compared to the previously intended immediate cooldown numbers) really help. I just hope the gyro will be effective enough to keep out instead of immediately detonating it for the shorter cooldown.

My biggest concern is one you’re not going to be able to reassure me about until HoT hits and I see it for myself: gyro intelligence and longevity. If minions take very little or no damage during raids, that’s great and all, but what about dungeons or just enemy-dense world locations like Orr, Silverwastes, or the HoT maps? If the global change for minions is only what we saw in the raids, I’m a little skeptical about their usefulness in the open world. It doesn’t help that we weren’t told any details about it.

Is effort being put into fixing the Superspeed bugs? I realize that is probably outside of your area, but can you at least let us know if someone is working on it or not? The inability to stack it cripples two-thirds of the Scrapper traits, and it would be a lot more desirable if the movement speed change behaved as advertised.

I can’t claim to know what can be done about it, but Decisive Renown doesn’t feel rewarding in PvE. Again, not really your area, but there’s a distinct lack of enemies that need to be Finished in PvE, which means we’re relying on allies going down to get any use out of this trait. Other classes have other traits related to when players go down, but the Warrior ones I can think of are related to making getting someone back up safer, faster, and therefore easier. Decisive Renown has no benefit until the ally is up. I hesitate to ask, but would bonus revive speed be too much?

You haven’t mentioned Perfectly Weighted and Mass Momentum. These skills don’t seem to synergize at all, and half the effect of Perfectly Weighted is underwhelming in general. Dodging is a really unreliable source of Stability, especially if that Stability is extremely short. For the sake of Stability, you have to be targeted by CC within 3s of dodging an attack. For the sake of Might, you need to dodge an attack every 5 seconds exactly in order to squeeze 3 stacks of Might out of Mass Momentum. It’s too reliant on enemy behavior. The Scrapper has very little control over how effective these traits are with the exception of Juggernaut and what it does for Mass Momentum.

I feel like a Juggernaut build is only useful for purposes of tanking, using it and other reliable combat boon traits to maintain a “high” damage resistance from Iron Blooded. To help contribute more to DPS, a Juggernaut build is going to want to keep its Might as high as possible, which means holding Flamethrower during any moment a specific non-flamethrower, non-toolbelt skill is not called for. If there is an ally Might stacker which makes the self-Might superfluous, holding Flamethrower is still preferable to swinging around the Hammer to ensure that Stability is maintained for its 2% damage resistance from Iron Blooded. The blocks, CC, and leaping through Lightning, Poison, and Water fields absolutely make it useful to switch to Hammer on occasion, but the goal there isn’t dealing damage. That doesn’t do anything to make Perfectly Weighted desirable. Adaptive Armor is more useful to Perfectly Weighted to a Juggernaut build.

As things stand, it’s either one or the other for me. Either I’m stacking up Iron Blooded as high as it will go and using Mass Momentum to help compensate my DPS, or Mass Momentum’s contribution isn’t worth picking over assisting my whole party with Expert Examination. What I’m trying to get at here is that I have no desire to use Mass Momentum and Perfectly Weighted in the same build. To me, these traits might as well be incompatible. This is really counter-intuitive, and I don’t think this is what you intended. I assume the Stability from Perfectly Weighted is going to continue to be really unreliable, because I also assume you’re worried about giving Scrapper too much Stability. If I’m right about that, then I feel like Mass Momentum’s Might duration and interval need to be elongated so that it lines up with Perfectly Weighted’s cooldown. A bit more flexibility could, potentially, go a long way.

I’d also like to advocate you talking to whoever is responsible for the auras about having all of them stack in duration. They’re so short that I feel like using Rocket Charge in any of their fields is a waste compared to what Scrapper can get out of Lightning, Water, and Poison fields. I also think “auramancer” Elementalist builds are getting punished for little to no justification by making what auras did stack in duration no longer do so. Engineers and Elementalists alike would appreciate you speaking in our/their behalfs. And Mesmers, for that matter. In fact… do these aura duration stacking decisions have anything to do with why Superspeed was never made to stack duration? If so, this policy really needs to change.

Bummer that the gyro stun break is stuck on the worst and most replaceable gyro. I guess the idea was the make everything about the Blast Gyro a copy of other skills? Now the Superspeed buff is a stun break (yet longer CD and shorter duration). Disappointing.

I appreciate the communication about the cooldown change, I know these things can happen when announcements are made ahead of time and I respect that. I’m not mad that it had to change, and the cooldowns you have listed seem pretty fair. I still believe MG will fall into the HT trap now of just blowing it up immediately, but I suppose that can’t be helped. I fully believe you guys know more about designing a game than I do so I’m sure you had a good reason for it!

Can I make a guess? Was it related to Alacrity? Without looking into the exact uptimes of each gyro under that short-lived change, I’m guessing with enough uptime of Alacrity a Scrapper may have been able to have two of the same gyro up at some point?

Adamantium.3682:

Bummer that the gyro stun break is stuck on the worst and most replaceable gyro. I guess the idea was the make everything about the Blast Gyro a copy of other skills? Now the Superspeed buff is a stun break (yet longer CD and shorter duration). Disappointing.

I appreciate the communication about the cooldown change, I know these things can happen when announcements are made ahead of time and I respect that. I’m not mad that it had to change, and the cooldowns you have listed seem pretty fair. I still believe MG will fall into the HT trap now of just blowing it up immediately, but I suppose that can’t be helped. I fully believe you guys know more about designing a game than I do so I’m sure you had a good reason for it!

Can I make a guess? Was it related to Alacrity? Without looking into the exact uptimes of each gyro under that short-lived change, I’m guessing with enough uptime of Alacrity a Scrapper may have been able to have two of the same gyro up at some point?

Blast gyros toolbelt is kinda meh..really Would have loved something more in the lines of mobility like using the oil slick to boost you and your teamates forward with a 600 range or so and make it count as a leap finisher stunbreak and boost would be amazing allowing you to get out of the cc and fast positioning too counter them. I would even settle for a backwards slide as long as it left a oil puddle you can then rocket charge through.

Adamantium.3682:

Can I make a guess? Was it related to Alacrity? Without looking into the exact uptimes of each gyro under that short-lived change, I’m guessing with enough uptime of Alacrity a Scrapper may have been able to have two of the same gyro up at some point?

Having two would be physically impossible regardless of the cooldowns, since the utility slot is flipped over to the gyro’s self-destruct skill as long as the first gyro is alive. Only way to summon a new one is to blow the first one.

Still entirely possible Alacrity is part of the cause of the reversion back to “on death cooldown” though. Avoiding 100% uptime could definitely be a concern even without doubling up.

Well, now with bypass coating being a stun break, it is better in all aspects than super speed of the slick shoes. It gives superspeed, is a stun break and it is aoe. I would prefer to give the stunbreak to another gyro, like bulwark….

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Blast Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Bypass Coating, is going to be a stunbreak.

So it’s gonna become istant cast??

Electro.4173:

Adamantium.3682:

Can I make a guess? Was it related to Alacrity? Without looking into the exact uptimes of each gyro under that short-lived change, I’m guessing with enough uptime of Alacrity a Scrapper may have been able to have two of the same gyro up at some point?

Having two would be physically impossible regardless of the cooldowns, since the utility slot is flipped over to the gyro’s self-destruct skill as long as the first gyro is alive. Only way to summon a new one is to blow the first one.

Still entirely possible Alacrity is part of the cause of the reversion back to “on death cooldown” though. Avoiding 100% uptime could definitely be a concern even without doubling up.

Who knows what would happen though if the Gyro was off cooldown while it still existed. For all we know the self destruct skill could switch back.

Kodama.6453:

Well, now with bypass coating being a stun break, it is better in all aspects than super speed of the slick shoes. It gives superspeed, is a stun break and it is aoe. I would prefer to give the stunbreak to another gyro, like bulwark….

I strongly disagree here, it sounds like you don’t know that everything you listed also applies to Slick Shoes (except AOE). The only thing Blast Gyro toolbelt has going for it is the AOE, which is pretty small anyways.

Compared to Slick Shoes toolbelt, the Blast Gyro toolbelt is…

• longer cooldown
• shorter Superspeed duration
• attached to a much worse utility

Blast Gyro <<< Throw Mine (a case could even be made for PBR), and now the toolbelt <<< Slick Shoes. I’m struggling to find any reason why someone would objectively want to use this skill.

Adamantium.3682:

I strongly disagree here, it sounds like you don’t know that everything you listed also applies to Slick Shoes (except AOE). The only thing Blast Gyro toolbelt has going for it is the AOE, which is pretty small anyways.

Compared to Slick Shoes toolbelt, the Blast Gyro toolbelt is…

• longer cooldown
• shorter Superspeed duration
• attached to a much worse utility

Blast Gyro <<< Throw Mine (a case could even be made for PBR), and now the toolbelt <<< Slick Shoes. I’m struggling to find any reason why someone would objectively want to use this skill.

Sry, it seems like I wasn’t able to show my point. The thing I mean is, the toolbelt skill of slick shoes and blast gyro are doing the exact same thing, they are stun breaking super speed sources. The only difference is that bypass coating is aoe and super speed has less CD and 2s longer duration (like you already pointed out).

So, it just doesn’t feel like a new skill to me. It is an existing skill with tweaked numbers. To improve bypass coating, I would like to see something else added to it and give the stun break to another skill.

One idea for bypass coating: maybe allies which got the effect could be immune to movement impairing conditions for the duration

Oh and btw: the explosion of blast gyro should be unblockable too, not just the tagging dart part.

Kodama.6453:

Adamantium.3682:

I strongly disagree here, it sounds like you don’t know that everything you listed also applies to Slick Shoes (except AOE). The only thing Blast Gyro toolbelt has going for it is the AOE, which is pretty small anyways.

Compared to Slick Shoes toolbelt, the Blast Gyro toolbelt is…

• longer cooldown
• shorter Superspeed duration
• attached to a much worse utility

Blast Gyro <<< Throw Mine (a case could even be made for PBR), and now the toolbelt <<< Slick Shoes. I’m struggling to find any reason why someone would objectively want to use this skill.

Sry, it seems like I wasn’t able to show my point. The thing I mean is, the toolbelt skill of slick shoes and blast gyro are doing the exact same thing, they are stun breaking super speed sources. The only difference is that bypass coating is aoe and super speed has less CD and 2s longer duration (like you already pointed out).

So, it just doesn’t feel like a new skill to me. It is an existing skill with tweaked numbers. To improve bypass coating, I would like to see something else added to it and give the stun break to another skill.

One idea for bypass coating: maybe allies which got the effect could be immune to movement impairing conditions for the duration

Oh and btw: the explosion of blast gyro should be unblockable too, not just the tagging dart part.

Let’s make it remove a boon as well to complete the copy of Throw Mine (Throw Mine is also unblockable).

I don’t really want to get into it in this thread, and it’s been said before, but I just think Blast Gyro is a bad skill. Not undertuned, I don’t think buffing any numbers on it would help. It is bad. It is an inferior copy of other skills we have.