Guild Wars 2

The only op thing is the tripple leap. With this you can heal alot or stack light auras among other things. Change it to one leap. Bam balanced. This aint rocket science.

Do note that scrapper is very easy to kite atm. When it doesn’t come to standing in a circle its on the weaker side of the spectrum.

Manuhell.2759:

What’s silly is to say that they’re “3 extremely high damage skills and 1 that still hits for a kittenload” to paint them as being overpowered, when the actual dps of some of those doesn’t necessarily end up being that much high compared to other skills we’ve got available. Unless you think that anything above “static shot” deals extremely high damage, at least.
Oh, indeed, some are strong. But it isn’t like they haven’t got their weak points, mainly due to cast times. Even the rocket charge you mention isn’t a full evade and can’t be canceled, meaning that a well-timed interrupt can still stop the scrapper. As it should be.

literally every single other skill that is above static shot in the power list has no damage mitigation baked in. several have cc and blasts but there are no other baked in reflects, evades, blocks, prots, or invulns. to be dealing such high damage while not vulnerable is what is op. the damage is fine. its supposed to hit hard with marauder and in melee, because its supposed to be high risk. however, hammer is not high risk. again, that is what is op. there is little risk and lots of reward, especially in confined spaces such as nodes.

I play engineer and totally agree with this.. Scrapper is “required” now for playing engie! It’s really sad, and once again we’re in a pvp leuage with not enough balance.

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

DHawk.2687:

Yashuoa.9527:

@ Manuhell.
Good points.

Azukas.1426:

and do all this while wearing a marauder amulet is the problem. If you had to sacrifice damage to obtain that survivability it would be perfectly fine, but you do not. The damage coefficients on hammer along with the passives and survivability of traits + utilities are too much.

I honestly would be ok with engineers being able to take that amount of beating if you cut 30-40% of the damage they could do. Or keep the damage and make kitten sure they are dropping with ease while wearing a marauder amulet like the rest of the game.

Many scrappers run with Paladin amulet.
DH has good survival for a Marauder.
Power herald even uses zerker amulet and has great survival.
Druids with Mender (no toughness) can stay alive quite long and deal good dmg.
So its not like they are the only ones with good dmg and survival.
Reaper has become a dmg + survival tank.
Its not like the rest of the game cant do dmg + survival (all the mentioned ones bar druid maybe, also do more dmg than scrapper and have more range).

Also you dont understand the coefficients.

Obviously an instant 1 hit attack, will have a lower coefficient per hit, than a channel multiple hit spell. The coefficients of scrapper multihit/channels are the coefficients of all hits total counted.

A non-scrapper can do multiple, 1 hit attacks, in the duration of the scrapper channel.
If you count those multiple 1 hit attacks, not only do you get more dmg, but also a higher coefficient than the scrapper.

There are attacks with lower coefficients than scrapper hammer multi hits/channels and who also do more dmg than the scrapper multi hits/channels.

The scrapper coefficients are misleading.
They are not generally higher than other classes their attacks.

Also Scrapper attacks are almost all around the 180 range mark or lower even.
Meaning you can stay out of its range really well.

1 Autoattack 130 range.
2 180 range.
3: Multi leap with 240 radius and 1000 range.
4 170 range (and only from the front).
5 1200 range iimmobile pulse field with 240 radus.

The sustain you can cut a lot by preventing the overcharge heal turret + leapfinisher combo.

Anyway as earlier said, scrapper should be made a bit less good in 1on1 and better in group support. Playstyle shift rather than nerf.
This would tackle the 1 on 1 complaints.

DHawk.2687:

Daredevil, i mean come on, i strong hit and the DrD is so low he has to back out and reset or might even be dead, by your logic that hammer is a close range melee weapon it needs sustain and survivability then why are thieves so squishy (I know why I’m just making a point here)

The discussion about hammer being a close range melee weapon and what it therefore needs (like sustain etc.) was a discussion that started between you and Mov1246. You confuse him with me.

I replied to that, how the comparision didnt work.

If scrapper needs sustrain for being in melee and if Daredevil is melee too,
than it doesnt have to mean that Daredevil needs sustain too.

Daredevil deal dmg differently than Scrappers.
Daredevils deal with opponent dmg differenty than scrappers (more avoidance rather than tankyness).
Daredevils have a different role (with their mobility, recap, +1 style) than scrappers and both have different tools.
They are different and need different things, even though both are melee.

Also really, daredevil has a lot bigger range on attacks (not only counting gapclosers, which they have more off too). Saying that scrapper has more range in general than Daredevil is just incorrect. Not really a complaint or anything. Just want to point out that its incorrect.

ranged weapons on the thief is either Pistol main hand (which noone will use since it’s bad) or shortbow, which isn’t a bad weapon but if you think you can kill a scrapper using shortbow you are more than wrong
furthermore shadowshot is the only ranged gapcloser that does dmg by default, the other e.g. steal, shadowtrap, Infiltrators signet or shadow step do not do dmg (only steal when traited)
the average dmg is higher on scrapper than on thief while not having to risk as much as thief does since almost every attack is a block or evade while doing dmg, as if every attack on thief was either a staff 5 or sword 3, which it isn’t
furthermore engi has one of the strongest heals in game and combining the #3 leap finisher with the toolbelt heal skill is another good 7k heal on the engies part
the problem with scrapper is that while just trying to survive with block and evade skills you actually do more dmg to the enemey then he does to you, which is bullkitten, if the guardian would be able to do about 4k dmg with every single block he does, he would be more present in the game and would be in need of nerfs
I can understand that scrappers gameplay style is melee and a mix of survive and dmg, but you cannot be that good in both things at once, the arguments that Reapers or Revs do the same is wrong, first of all reaper gets it’s survivability from shroud, once your through that he mostly can’t refill it to 100% before he dies and most Necro heals aren’t strong, Rev the only thing you have to worry about is the glint heal, the shiro heal is sub par, but rev’s survivability isn’t as strong as Scrappers, Rev is just more mobile
The Scrapper trait line is fine as it is, the problem is how op the hammer is, too much reward for too little risk, either hammer dmg needs to be toned done or the CD need to be increased by a bit, but it’s state now is just pathetic

That sounds like a load of bull! Have you ever tried to stay alive as a scrapper? I am going to start to say that yes Revenant is trickier to play than scrapper but a skilled Revenant will survive longer than a skilled scrapper.

I suggest that all who asks to nerf hammer damage tries scrapper for a while and see how strong the hammer is. Then play DH with marauder for example and see how strong longbow is. What should be done (as have been said from many experienced scrappers) is to nerf the amount of blocks and evades. Hammer is strong because most scrappers go almost all out damage. If you nerf hammer damage scrappers will fall out of meta completely and that should not be a goal, we should have more classes in the meta not less. And… a nerf at all to engi I think they will fall out of meta.

Yes i have played scrapper, marauder with hammer, heal turret, grenades, toolkit and elixir s
and yes it is pathetically easy to stay alive in 1v1 and even up to 1v3, and no I’m not that good with engi, but with hammer it’s easy to stay alive since almost every skill helps you sustain in some way
then yes LB does more dmg if you compare skill 2 to hammer 3
aaaaaand that’s abou it
lb 3 is only good when you actually block a projectile, 4 is meh and buggy and 5 takes to long and doesn’t do that much dmg, 5 is utility for the immob
so no lb is not stronger than hammer when you compare every skill
and a guard marauder will die faster than a scrapper marauder as well (when on the same skill lv)
(( there is a reason you don’t see any guards, warri or thieves in esl anymore, but plenty of scrappers and revs))

the reason you see lot of scrappers to begin with is because of whiners putting them in a pedestal only to then get schooled when they try scrapper

your description of DH longbow skills shows how inexperienced and biased you are

No the reason you see a lot of scrappers is the fact that they can do everything that is needed atm very good, if you’ve ever played ESL in any game, doesn’t matter which one, players will ALWAYS play the strongest class/weapon/skill whatever, the most unbalanced or cheesy thing to have the highest winning potential, that is how it is in esports and there is no changing that or neglecting it
Furthermore why don’t you inform me about what i said about LB to be wrong Considering that my 2 mains are Guard and Thief i think i know what the longbow skills do thank you

how is lb not stronger than hammer when you got a 4s cooldown Killshot 1200 range

all hammer offers is avoidance 1s reflect,3 mini evades,2s block

all counterable with longbow 5 if we’re going by weapon skills alone

scrapper hammer only has one high damage skill and that’s the 4 skill wich has 20s cooldown

did you hit your head a few times as a child?
first of all LB only has one strong skill that is True Shot (4sec icd)
skill #3 is good but has a decent CD
you even said that almost every hammer skill is either avoiding dmg or reflecting it back, hammer 2 does more dmg as a whirl finsiher than skill 4 or 5 on longbow,
hammer 3 does more dmg than trueshot, 3 leap finishers and 3 evades
you can easly reflect LB2
Scrapper Hammer is a counter to Guards LB kittencrapper you can just kitten on projectiles

i can’t take someone like you serious who has no clue about the game
good day sir

EDIT: LB 5 counters all engi skill?? kitten!?
do you even know what it does?
it sends out a barrage of arrows that does low dmg
the last set of arrows sends a cage down that “immobs” you
simply don’t stand in the aoe or dodge the last barrage and you nullified the whole skill
where the kitten does that counter the entire weaponset?
or do you really play so bad that you don’t use any keys while playing and except every enemy to just fall over dead by looking at them??

the question was wich kit alone was better
so by that logic dh wins simply by having weapon swap lol
and hammer alone doesnt have stability thus the #5 pull hard ccs and keeps enemy inside lol hence how it counters the entire weapon set

now had traits and utilities been included then yeah sure longbow alone is a joke

kitten? if you compare JUST the weapons hammer is better, if you compare the whole classes scrapper is better too
in what sense is a cc that is totally telegraphed and aviodable by just walking away, you have like 2-3 sec to just take to steps left, you act like you are instantly stunned??
define “KIT” there are no kits in this game
so what if Guard has weaponswap, you have gadgets and the toolbelt which replaced weapon swap, your arguments have no valid point and just come close to trolling, with the difference that trolls are smarter about it

well the argument was in weapon skills alone , engineer kits are utilities and only 2 are worthwhile for scrapper

but since you brought up skills to the equation scrapper only has one skill to trigger dh traps without getting affected before engaging DH and that is Elixir S

Stability and Shields are rendered useless versus DH because

each trap dazes on activation so that is an easy 5 stability stacks removed on trigger
longbow has a 10s cd knockback
spear of justice is an unblockable pull
some traps are indeed unblockable to thats a daze that will break through shields

and because that isnt cheap enough traps give 10s fury on 20s cd
and dragon’s maw gives instand 10 might stack so just by placing two traps guard gains 80% theorical damage

and lets mention the fact traps enter cooldown when Placed rather than on activation wich brings up the potential for traps to strip up to 10 stability stacks on whatever fool charges on a guard that was sitting in a point for a while

again not a valid argument

1st you can use your toolbar shield to get in and out of traps
2. draps only daze when you have it traited, which only full trapper have, when playing full trapper it’s a gg as soon as you double dodge rolled the traps, wow that was hard hu?
3. knockback only when traited and melee range
4. spear of justice is strong yes, but can also be ealsy dodged, same as engi pull
5. ONE trap is unblockable, the trap that dmg when walking through the outer rim
6. as i said full trapper is patheticly easy to beat hence you don’t see a lot of them, since they miss sustain and utility
7. yes stacking traps on a point is cheap, but if you see a guard on a point, how dumb must you be to just walk into it?
YOU KNOW for a fact that there is a 90% chance that there are traps there, if you don’t know how to counter them (cough 2 dodges rolls, elixer s, shieldblock cough) just don’t engage
DH is strong against low lv players, especially full trappers, as soon as you hit mid to high tier they are gone because it’s too easy to counter and lb become useless with the countless reflects flying around

as i said no valid arguments just a l2p issue, coming from someone who is playing the classes counter

no offense

santenal.1054:

Manuhell.2759:

Even the rocket charge you mention isn’t a full evade and can’t be canceled, meaning that a well-timed interrupt can still stop the scrapper. As it should be.

quick question: Can some1 tell me at what time during rocket charge you are evading and at what time you aren’t (susceptible to cc) ?

@Sental during the actual Leap you are immune to all dmg, that is the evade part meaning almost the full sill since it’s hard to cc right when the dmg hits
evade hit evade hit evade hit
imagine a thief using sword dagger spamming sword 3 for 3 times but only had one cd on it, more dmg and no aftercast ^^

DHawk.2687:

santenal.1054:

Manuhell.2759:

Even the rocket charge you mention isn’t a full evade and can’t be canceled, meaning that a well-timed interrupt can still stop the scrapper. As it should be.

quick question: Can some1 tell me at what time during rocket charge you are evading and at what time you aren’t (susceptible to cc) ?

@Sental during the actual Leap you are immune to all dmg, that is the evade part meaning almost the full sill since it’s hard to cc right when the dmg hits
evade hit evade hit evade hit
imagine a thief using sword dagger spamming sword 3 for 3 times but only had one cd on it, more dmg and no aftercast ^^

It really isn’t hard to hit in that time frame. I used to play double pistol engineer and used these time frames to load 11 stacks of burning on the scrappers. They just shouted “wtf” and died, I didn’t even get injured heavenly. You just have to get used to it, if you are it is a big weakness for most scrappers til they tend to be locked in the animation.

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

Rezzet.3614:

DHawk.2687:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

DHawk.2687:

Yashuoa.9527:

@ Manuhell.
Good points.

Azukas.1426:

and do all this while wearing a marauder amulet is the problem. If you had to sacrifice damage to obtain that survivability it would be perfectly fine, but you do not. The damage coefficients on hammer along with the passives and survivability of traits + utilities are too much.

I honestly would be ok with engineers being able to take that amount of beating if you cut 30-40% of the damage they could do. Or keep the damage and make kitten sure they are dropping with ease while wearing a marauder amulet like the rest of the game.

Many scrappers run with Paladin amulet.
DH has good survival for a Marauder.
Power herald even uses zerker amulet and has great survival.
Druids with Mender (no toughness) can stay alive quite long and deal good dmg.
So its not like they are the only ones with good dmg and survival.
Reaper has become a dmg + survival tank.
Its not like the rest of the game cant do dmg + survival (all the mentioned ones bar druid maybe, also do more dmg than scrapper and have more range).

Also you dont understand the coefficients.

Obviously an instant 1 hit attack, will have a lower coefficient per hit, than a channel multiple hit spell. The coefficients of scrapper multihit/channels are the coefficients of all hits total counted.

A non-scrapper can do multiple, 1 hit attacks, in the duration of the scrapper channel.
If you count those multiple 1 hit attacks, not only do you get more dmg, but also a higher coefficient than the scrapper.

There are attacks with lower coefficients than scrapper hammer multi hits/channels and who also do more dmg than the scrapper multi hits/channels.

The scrapper coefficients are misleading.
They are not generally higher than other classes their attacks.

Also Scrapper attacks are almost all around the 180 range mark or lower even.
Meaning you can stay out of its range really well.

1 Autoattack 130 range.
2 180 range.
3: Multi leap with 240 radius and 1000 range.
4 170 range (and only from the front).
5 1200 range iimmobile pulse field with 240 radus.

The sustain you can cut a lot by preventing the overcharge heal turret + leapfinisher combo.

Anyway as earlier said, scrapper should be made a bit less good in 1on1 and better in group support. Playstyle shift rather than nerf.
This would tackle the 1 on 1 complaints.

DHawk.2687:

Daredevil, i mean come on, i strong hit and the DrD is so low he has to back out and reset or might even be dead, by your logic that hammer is a close range melee weapon it needs sustain and survivability then why are thieves so squishy (I know why I’m just making a point here)

The discussion about hammer being a close range melee weapon and what it therefore needs (like sustain etc.) was a discussion that started between you and Mov1246. You confuse him with me.

I replied to that, how the comparision didnt work.

If scrapper needs sustrain for being in melee and if Daredevil is melee too,
than it doesnt have to mean that Daredevil needs sustain too.

Daredevil deal dmg differently than Scrappers.
Daredevils deal with opponent dmg differenty than scrappers (more avoidance rather than tankyness).
Daredevils have a different role (with their mobility, recap, +1 style) than scrappers and both have different tools.
They are different and need different things, even though both are melee.

Also really, daredevil has a lot bigger range on attacks (not only counting gapclosers, which they have more off too). Saying that scrapper has more range in general than Daredevil is just incorrect. Not really a complaint or anything. Just want to point out that its incorrect.

ranged weapons on the thief is either Pistol main hand (which noone will use since it’s bad) or shortbow, which isn’t a bad weapon but if you think you can kill a scrapper using shortbow you are more than wrong
furthermore shadowshot is the only ranged gapcloser that does dmg by default, the other e.g. steal, shadowtrap, Infiltrators signet or shadow step do not do dmg (only steal when traited)
the average dmg is higher on scrapper than on thief while not having to risk as much as thief does since almost every attack is a block or evade while doing dmg, as if every attack on thief was either a staff 5 or sword 3, which it isn’t
furthermore engi has one of the strongest heals in game and combining the #3 leap finisher with the toolbelt heal skill is another good 7k heal on the engies part
the problem with scrapper is that while just trying to survive with block and evade skills you actually do more dmg to the enemey then he does to you, which is bullkitten, if the guardian would be able to do about 4k dmg with every single block he does, he would be more present in the game and would be in need of nerfs
I can understand that scrappers gameplay style is melee and a mix of survive and dmg, but you cannot be that good in both things at once, the arguments that Reapers or Revs do the same is wrong, first of all reaper gets it’s survivability from shroud, once your through that he mostly can’t refill it to 100% before he dies and most Necro heals aren’t strong, Rev the only thing you have to worry about is the glint heal, the shiro heal is sub par, but rev’s survivability isn’t as strong as Scrappers, Rev is just more mobile
The Scrapper trait line is fine as it is, the problem is how op the hammer is, too much reward for too little risk, either hammer dmg needs to be toned done or the CD need to be increased by a bit, but it’s state now is just pathetic

That sounds like a load of bull! Have you ever tried to stay alive as a scrapper? I am going to start to say that yes Revenant is trickier to play than scrapper but a skilled Revenant will survive longer than a skilled scrapper.

I suggest that all who asks to nerf hammer damage tries scrapper for a while and see how strong the hammer is. Then play DH with marauder for example and see how strong longbow is. What should be done (as have been said from many experienced scrappers) is to nerf the amount of blocks and evades. Hammer is strong because most scrappers go almost all out damage. If you nerf hammer damage scrappers will fall out of meta completely and that should not be a goal, we should have more classes in the meta not less. And… a nerf at all to engi I think they will fall out of meta.

Yes i have played scrapper, marauder with hammer, heal turret, grenades, toolkit and elixir s
and yes it is pathetically easy to stay alive in 1v1 and even up to 1v3, and no I’m not that good with engi, but with hammer it’s easy to stay alive since almost every skill helps you sustain in some way
then yes LB does more dmg if you compare skill 2 to hammer 3
aaaaaand that’s abou it
lb 3 is only good when you actually block a projectile, 4 is meh and buggy and 5 takes to long and doesn’t do that much dmg, 5 is utility for the immob
so no lb is not stronger than hammer when you compare every skill
and a guard marauder will die faster than a scrapper marauder as well (when on the same skill lv)
(( there is a reason you don’t see any guards, warri or thieves in esl anymore, but plenty of scrappers and revs))

the reason you see lot of scrappers to begin with is because of whiners putting them in a pedestal only to then get schooled when they try scrapper

your description of DH longbow skills shows how inexperienced and biased you are

No the reason you see a lot of scrappers is the fact that they can do everything that is needed atm very good, if you’ve ever played ESL in any game, doesn’t matter which one, players will ALWAYS play the strongest class/weapon/skill whatever, the most unbalanced or cheesy thing to have the highest winning potential, that is how it is in esports and there is no changing that or neglecting it
Furthermore why don’t you inform me about what i said about LB to be wrong Considering that my 2 mains are Guard and Thief i think i know what the longbow skills do thank you

how is lb not stronger than hammer when you got a 4s cooldown Killshot 1200 range

all hammer offers is avoidance 1s reflect,3 mini evades,2s block

all counterable with longbow 5 if we’re going by weapon skills alone

scrapper hammer only has one high damage skill and that’s the 4 skill wich has 20s cooldown

did you hit your head a few times as a child?
first of all LB only has one strong skill that is True Shot (4sec icd)
skill #3 is good but has a decent CD
you even said that almost every hammer skill is either avoiding dmg or reflecting it back, hammer 2 does more dmg as a whirl finsiher than skill 4 or 5 on longbow,
hammer 3 does more dmg than trueshot, 3 leap finishers and 3 evades
you can easly reflect LB2
Scrapper Hammer is a counter to Guards LB kittencrapper you can just kitten on projectiles

i can’t take someone like you serious who has no clue about the game
good day sir

EDIT: LB 5 counters all engi skill?? kitten!?
do you even know what it does?
it sends out a barrage of arrows that does low dmg
the last set of arrows sends a cage down that “immobs” you
simply don’t stand in the aoe or dodge the last barrage and you nullified the whole skill
where the kitten does that counter the entire weaponset?
or do you really play so bad that you don’t use any keys while playing and except every enemy to just fall over dead by looking at them??

the question was wich kit alone was better
so by that logic dh wins simply by having weapon swap lol
and hammer alone doesnt have stability thus the #5 pull hard ccs and keeps enemy inside lol hence how it counters the entire weapon set

now had traits and utilities been included then yeah sure longbow alone is a joke

kitten? if you compare JUST the weapons hammer is better, if you compare the whole classes scrapper is better too
in what sense is a cc that is totally telegraphed and aviodable by just walking away, you have like 2-3 sec to just take to steps left, you act like you are instantly stunned??
define “KIT” there are no kits in this game
so what if Guard has weaponswap, you have gadgets and the toolbelt which replaced weapon swap, your arguments have no valid point and just come close to trolling, with the difference that trolls are smarter about it

well the argument was in weapon skills alone , engineer kits are utilities and only 2 are worthwhile for scrapper

but since you brought up skills to the equation scrapper only has one skill to trigger dh traps without getting affected before engaging DH and that is Elixir S

Stability and Shields are rendered useless versus DH because

each trap dazes on activation so that is an easy 5 stability stacks removed on trigger
longbow has a 10s cd knockback
spear of justice is an unblockable pull
some traps are indeed unblockable to thats a daze that will break through shields

and because that isnt cheap enough traps give 10s fury on 20s cd
and dragon’s maw gives instand 10 might stack so just by placing two traps guard gains 80% theorical damage

and lets mention the fact traps enter cooldown when Placed rather than on activation wich brings up the potential for traps to strip up to 10 stability stacks on whatever fool charges on a guard that was sitting in a point for a while

again not a valid argument

1st you can use your toolbar shield to get in and out of traps
2. draps only daze when you have it traited, which only full trapper have, when playing full trapper it’s a gg as soon as you double dodge rolled the traps, wow that was hard hu?
3. knockback only when traited and melee range
4. spear of justice is strong yes, but can also be ealsy dodged, same as engi pull
5. ONE trap is unblockable, the trap that dmg when walking through the outer rim
6. as i said full trapper is patheticly easy to beat hence you don’t see a lot of them, since they miss sustain and utility
7. yes stacking traps on a point is cheap, but if you see a guard on a point, how dumb must you be to just walk into it?
YOU KNOW for a fact that there is a 90% chance that there are traps there, if you don’t know how to counter them (cough 2 dodges rolls, elixer s, shieldblock cough) just don’t engage
DH is strong against low lv players, especially full trappers, as soon as you hit mid to high tier they are gone because it’s too easy to counter and lb become useless with the countless reflects flying around

as i said no valid arguments just a l2p issue, coming from someone who is playing the classes counter

no offense

and you forget some traps are Unblockable
and that DH has an Unblockable pull with 1200 range to pull players into traps
so the only real counter is Elixir S wich has been working like a kitten charm for me
in this current meta Blocks are useless so i ve yet to see a single crapper run tool kit
saw only one and he wasnt successful at anything but missing his magnet pull

another fun fact Unblockable skills pierce Reflects

traps give aegis,protection,fury and 10 might stacks you can have blocks with a sword and shield

hammer scrapper only has melee skills maybe yoou shouldnt sit on one place if your target breaks through your traps

either ways its all irrelevant

scrapper cannot be nerfed until conditions get nerfed all around
and then druid gets their sustain nerfed
and probably remove bunker condi amulets and hybrid power+condi amulets
if yoou wanna build condi melter give up power for it

Kodama.6453:

DHawk.2687:

santenal.1054:

Manuhell.2759:

Even the rocket charge you mention isn’t a full evade and can’t be canceled, meaning that a well-timed interrupt can still stop the scrapper. As it should be.

quick question: Can some1 tell me at what time during rocket charge you are evading and at what time you aren’t (susceptible to cc) ?

@Sental during the actual Leap you are immune to all dmg, that is the evade part meaning almost the full sill since it’s hard to cc right when the dmg hits
evade hit evade hit evade hit
imagine a thief using sword dagger spamming sword 3 for 3 times but only had one cd on it, more dmg and no aftercast ^^

It really isn’t hard to hit in that time frame. I used to play double pistol engineer and used these time frames to load 11 stacks of burning on the scrappers. They just shouted “wtf” and died, I didn’t even get injured heavenly. You just have to get used to it, if you are it is a big weakness for most scrappers til they tend to be locked in the animation.

the thing is most condi players are fairly tanky too, since they only need 1 or 2 offensive stats so they can add 1 or 2 defensive ones as well
but as power you are fairly squishy ^^ well as thief anyway

insanemaniac.2456:

literally every single other skill that is above static shot in the power list has no damage mitigation baked in. several have cc and blasts but there are no other baked in reflects, evades, blocks, prots, or invulns.

And literally every single other skill isn’t on a melee main weapon, since we haven’t got others (so far, at least). Being able to do things we couldn’t do before is kinda the point of the elite specs.

insanemaniac.2456:

to be dealing such high damage while not vulnerable is what is op. the damage is fine. its supposed to hit hard with marauder and in melee, because its supposed to be high risk. however, hammer is not high risk. again, that is what is op. there is little risk and lots of reward,

If you play against people that just spam skills at random, it will indeed be like that.
But having offensive and defensive measures crammed together also makes it so that you’ll have to use both aspects together. Using them to do damage is what leaves you vulnerable to well-timed attacks, and likewise, using them at the right time to make use of their defensive properties will result in a dps loss. And then we have skills like rocket charge, where you can actually be hit (and eventually interrupted) during the animation. Assuming that the opponents actually bother doing so (i guess most don’t, and then just whine).

But it isn’t like there were other ways to do so. We can use a single main weapon, and we don’t have the leisure of having purely defensive skills on it. That’s something they already tried to do before, with the shield. And it ended up as a failure, despite the chain skills it offered.

insanemaniac.2456:

especially in confined spaces such as nodes.

I do agree that the scrapper ended up especially suited to fight in such spaces. But given that the point of specialization was to make the class better in a melee role, that was to be expected.
But unless they plan on splitting balance between the various modes, nerfing it everywhere for doing exactly what it is specialized to do would be completely nonsensical.

Manuhell.2759:

And literally every single other skill isn’t on a melee main weapon, since we haven’t got others (so far, at least). Being able to do things we couldn’t do before is kinda the point of the elite specs.

ur kidding right

No.

please, tell me how to kill someone at range with p/p, p/s, or rifle.

With their skills. Most of which are ranged, or designed to keep the enemy away.
Take the rifle. There are two skills that provide some burst damage at close range, two skills to keep the enemy away after having done so – net shot and overcharged shot – and a ranged autoattack. Most of the time, you’re away from the enemy.
Main hand pistol skills are all ranged. Indeed, if you’re against a single enemy, poison dart volley would be more precise if you stay closed. But then again, you’ve got to do it only once every 10s.
Off-hand pistol gets you blowtorch and glue shot. A skill that requires you to be close for maximum efficency, and one to keep the enemy away. Yet again, you’ve got to be close only once every 15s.
All the rest of the time, you can stay safely at range. Or use glue shot to keep the distance when it’s available.
And then we have the shield, that won’t make you kill anyone either melee or at range, unless he tries to eat it and dies from asphyxiation.
But aside from that, you’ve got a skill to reflect projectiles that doubles as a knockback, and a skill that blocks and stun that doubles as a ranged shield throw.
This weapon screams “stay away” from all its skills, starting with knockback, going forward the stun on block (to give you some time to back off) and finishing with a shield throw after you got some distance.

And then we get the hammer, with four melee skills, one of which is designed to charge toward the enemy. And a single ranged skill that synergizes well with it once you’re already at melee range.
That’s a melee weapon.

rifle and pistol are designed to not be used very often with little to do between long cds on skills that are only effective enough to kill when used in melee.

this does not make them ranged weapons. it makes them good at improvising and adapting and turning that to your advantage.

for examples of ranged weapons, look at necro and mesmer staff and scepter, ranger and guard longbow, and thief shortbow. none of these weapons have multiple skills that come with the drawback of “oh, use this is melee or its gonna suck”, which means that the player tries to stay at range and be ranged. unlike engi weapons. engi weapons having range is not the same as being ranged.

so good luck being ranged with them.

scrapper need to be nerfed : i agree … and disagree in the same time. I played engi since long time, i really love p/p playstyle (old condi build with nades and toolkit ) and i prefer rifle to hammer as gameplay. But now… scrapper is so strong that you can avoid to play it. Scrapper need nerf, yes but many other Hot specs need nerf too . I would agree to a scrapped nerf, if there was a general hot elites nerf so that all core classes builds are at the same level of hots. Scrapper is strong…. but what about other hot specs ? nerf all of them and i will agree

I’m pretty sure he doesn’t intend to just nerf scrapper and leave everything else. It seems to me he just knows specifically on scrapper what he believes to be off and is therefore mentioning it so that it can be considered in future patches. Everyone knows that HoT was pure power creep and that everything needs a nerf, I don’t think it has to be mentioned in the OP for that to be implied.

If scrappers get nerfed I’d take a guess at:
Hammer 5 / thunderclap : damage or range
Hammer 4 / Shock shield : damage on a block skill , or it might be changed to aegis like well of precog…
Hammer 3 / Rocket charge’s triple leap finisher
Hammer 2 / Electro-whirl : recharge /damage maybe
Adaptive armor: armor or condi reduction
Stealth gyro interval and/or uptime
Bunker down cooldown (Core engi)
Recovery matrix’s protection duration
Rapid regen’s superspeed heals
Projection Injection uptime (core engi)
Medic gyro cast time 1/2 or 3/4s

no no scrapper is fine maybe a little bit weak. They haven’t enough dps or survival abilities. Buff scrapper please.

insanemaniac.2456:

rifle and pistol are designed to not be used very often with little to do between long cds on skills that are only effective enough to kill when used in melee.

this does not make them ranged weapons. it makes them good at improvising and adapting and turning that to your advantage.

for examples of ranged weapons, look at necro and mesmer staff and scepter, ranger and guard longbow, and thief shortbow. none of these weapons have multiple skills that come with the drawback of “oh, use this is melee or its gonna suck”, which means that the player tries to stay at range and be ranged. unlike engi weapons. engi weapons having range is not the same as being ranged.

so good luck being ranged with them.

And having a couple skills being better at close range doesn’t make them melee weapons either. It just means you’ll use those skills when you’re close, and then you’ll keep fighting at range (using the ranged autoattack, if there is nothing else available).
Sure, to deal good damage you’ll have to close the enemy every now and then, with the risks involved in doing so…but you have no reason to stay melee for the rest of the time, as far as using these weapon goes. As a matter of fact, the engineer is described as a mid-range class, and these weapons follow that approach by also providing some means to keep your distance – means that i’ve mentioned in the post above.
Oh, if you like being mauled, you can stay melee all the time. You just won’t gain much by doing it (the ranged skills are balanced over them being ranged, after all). Something you can do even with the other weapons you mentioned, anyway.
Or you can use a real melee weapon – like the scrapper’s hammer, or any other melee weapon those classes can weapon swap to – and be more suited for a melee role.
They’ve made melee weapons for that purpose, after all.
And likewise, they’ve made the scrapper for making us better in melee, too. By giving us what we can rightfully call a proper melee weapon.

Scrapper is fine and elegant. I’d rather see less used builds buffed on other classes.

yeah leave scrapper, it’s in a good place.

Insanely high damage, insanely high sustain, insanely high group support. Scrappers are God tier and need the biggest nerf that has ever nerfed in the history of all nerfs.

Arnath.2319:

Insanely high damage, insanely high sustain, insanely high group support. Scrappers are God tier and need the biggest nerf that has ever nerfed in the history of all nerfs.

High damage? Warrior shoot me down with 2 shots. No ,scrapper have cute sustain yea, but sustain is his weakness too-zerk him, and dont be afraid he will never zerk you down. With marauder rifle build I never have problem to take him down.

Arnath.2319:

Insanely high damage, insanely high sustain, insanely high group support. Scrappers are God tier and need the biggest nerf that has ever nerfed in the history of all nerfs.

When people exaggerate like this, it makes people not take the post seriously at all. Just being honest, not meant to sound like I’m flaming. Scrapper is strong, and top tier, yes. But Necro,Rev,Druid are totally just as strong and possibly stronger depending on game mode and situation ect.

I really don’t remember seeing double Scrapper in any pro league matches lately? There were double Revs in most lineups. IMO I’d rather face a very skilled Scrapper over a very skilled Rev,Druid, Condi Necro, or even Condi Chrono. Saying Scrapper “needs the biggest nerf that has ever nerfed in the history of all nerfs” like was said above sounds a bit foolish and ignorant. A couple (more) tweaks could maybe be made, but it shouldn’t happen unless the other so called OP traits, other passive procs and skills get reworked on 80% of the other professions.

These kinds of Nerf Everything threads and most threads in general(cough WvW subforum) Anet doesn’t even read of care about it seems. How often do you see red posts on here? Kind of insulting, but that’s another subject altogether. Honestly OP and co., it’s a waste of time. Either just complain to yourself or REALLY put some real work into learning to counter “OP” builds, because it’s pointless to post here. Maybe if you made a thread on Reddit with actual facts, reasonings, some non napkin math figures to help along your point, and really stay away from exaggerations, it might get looked into.

JDjitsu.7895:

Arnath.2319:

Insanely high damage, insanely high sustain, insanely high group support. Scrappers are God tier and need the biggest nerf that has ever nerfed in the history of all nerfs.

When people exaggerate like this, it makes people not take the post seriously at all. Just being honest, not meant to sound like I’m flaming. Scrapper is strong, and top tier, yes. But Necro,Rev,Druid are totally just as strong and possibly stronger depending on game mode and situation ect.

I really don’t remember seeing double Scrapper in any pro league matches lately? There were double Revs in most lineups. IMO I’d rather face a very skilled Scrapper over a very skilled Rev,Druid, Condi Necro, or even Condi Chrono. Saying Scrapper “needs the biggest nerf that has ever nerfed in the history of all nerfs” like was said above sounds a bit foolish and ignorant. A couple (more) tweaks could maybe be made, but it shouldn’t happen unless the other so called OP traits, other passive procs and skills get reworked on 80% of the other professions.

These kinds of Nerf Everything threads and most threads in general(cough WvW subforum) Anet doesn’t even read of care about it seems. How often do you see red posts on here? Kind of insulting, but that’s another subject altogether. Honestly OP and co., it’s a waste of time. Either just complain to yourself or REALLY put some real work into learning to counter “OP” builds, because it’s pointless to post here. Maybe if you made a thread on Reddit with actual facts, reasonings, some non napkin math figures to help along your point, and really stay away from exaggerations, it might get looked into.

Your mostly right but if enough ppl QQ long enough, it doesn’t matter how pathetic their arguments are, they will nerf it, if enough ppl cry out for it, best example thief.
Guild Wars 2 has come to the point where the DLC basically is mandatory because almost every single elite spec is overpowered compared to vanilla, most elite traitlines make already existing once useless, e.g. Acrobatic and Shadow Arts on thief or the Honor Line on most guard specs, most of the new weapons are so full of power creep it makes the old onse useless, e.g. (for pve) GS Reaper easly up to 20k Gravedigger crits with no CD at 50% hp, True Shot, CoR, Vault, Scrapper Hammer 3, etc
There is no balance around the actual classes anymore, only around the elite specs because without them you are simply downgrading your class 90% of the time.
And why did this happen? so anet can make more money out of it
In addition to that the DLC offers hardly any new content, the “huge amount of content” some ppl describe it as is just farming the same thing endlessly to get the masteries up, there is hardly anything else to do.
Now to the balance side of things, the game is devolving from being somewhat skill based into more and more casual. Skills that have no risk, no setup, no great cost or anything skill based do massive dmg (e.g. CoR) while other skills that actually need you to know what the hell you are doing do little to no dmg at all (e.g. Backstab).
Furthermore anet keeps including invuln traits and skills that dumb the combat down even more
almost every single fight plays out like this (someone dominates, other player drops invuln, dominant player is forced to kyte so he doesn’t die if kyting is possible in that situation, invuln wears off fight goes on, enemy goes 25% hp, passive invuln procs >>because you are so good that you are about to die we grant you a 5 sec invuln<<, and that just repeats itself all game long, there is no more active defense phase or attack phase, no real skill involved in surviving when you have tons of get out of jail free cards anyway.
Anyway, a lot of the “veteran” and really good players are leaving this game just because it is being dumbed down to a casual almost pay to win game with no reasonable balance or risk reward system for skilled players

perhaps i agree that scrapper need a nerf as many other hot specs. .. ok nerf it but give us an alternative. I play viper p/p but it is really hard to go on … and also with rifle it is not so simple to rank up …. how many not scrapper builds are really viable in pvp ?

PierPiero.9142:

perhaps i agree that scrapper need a nerf as many other hot specs. .. ok nerf it but give us an alternative. I play viper p/p but it is really hard to go on … and also with rifle it is not so simple to rank up …. how many not scrapper builds are really viable in pvp ?

that is just the thing, other than the “meta” builds (which mostly ALWAYS include the elite) hardly anything is viable simply because the elites are just op compared to vanilla

That said mara rifle engi works really well still if you manage your positioning and use your combos correctly.

Ario.8964:

That said mara rifle engi works really well still if you manage your positioning and use your combos correctly.

It works but it is harder to play and imho scrapper is better. Even PP viper condition build can work quite well but scrapper is the easiest engineer build to play …. and statistically something easier to play gives you more wins

PierPiero.9142:

Ario.8964:

That said mara rifle engi works really well still if you manage your positioning and use your combos correctly.

It works but it is harder to play and imho scrapper is better. Even PP viper condition build can work quite well but scrapper is the easiest engineer build to play …. and statistically something easier to play gives you more wins

Easier to play does not always equate to more success. Easier to play and high rewards is the danger you have to avoid as a dev.

Scrapper exemplifies that concept.

Watching a fotm scrapper tank every DH trap and theif burst while comboing off the other scrapper nearby to have insane leap heals and x2 turrets and x2 elixir mist, couldnt kill one at all.

All while having enough cc and damage to lockdown the DH and thief with one slick shoes

How is this even close to ok, he dipped to 1/3 health from that burst and from the dmg outout and lack of dodge rolls i assume he grabbed the marauder scrapper build from metabattle to fotm for a while.

larocca.8391:

Watching a fotm scrapper tank every DH trap and theif burst while comboing off the other scrapper nearby to have insane leap heals and x2 turrets and x2 elixir mist, couldnt kill one at all.

All while having enough cc and damage to lockdown the DH and thief with one slick shoes

How is this even close to ok, he dipped to 1/3 health from that burst and from the dmg outout and lack of dodge rolls i assume he grabbed the marauder scrapper build from metabattle to fotm for a while.

That not realy a scrapper issue that more of an eng issue the always been able to self heal for a lot.

“Scrappers needs NERF.”
yes, but only if reaper, rev and dh also be nerfed

larocca.8391:

Watching a fotm scrapper tank every DH trap and theif burst while comboing off the other scrapper nearby to have insane leap heals and x2 turrets and x2 elixir mist, couldnt kill one at all.

All while having enough cc and damage to lockdown the DH and thief with one slick shoes

How is this even close to ok, he dipped to 1/3 health from that burst and from the dmg outout and lack of dodge rolls i assume he grabbed the marauder scrapper build from metabattle to fotm for a while.

Sounds like the dh, thief and other scrapper (lets call that one scrapper B ) were not very good if they couldnt blow up in 3v1 the enemy scrapper (lets call that one scrapper A).

Obivoulsy the dh alone or scrapper B alone, could give scrapper A enough trouble to win a fight 1 on 1.

When facing dh +scrapper B +thief in 3v1, obviously the other scrapper A has no chance.
There is even another scrapper, scrapper B, that he faces for goodness sake and a dh and thief on top.
If the 3 of them cant take more than 1/3 of the health away, than they were obviously not playing very well.

Only the heal turret resets btw on a 120min internal cd.
Not regenerative mist.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Medical_Response

Btw, many scrappers run with a toughness amulet now, called Paladin amulet, instead of Marauder.

As explained in this thread a few times, you can prevent the leap heal. In 1on1 and especially in 3v3 with cc and killing the turret or knockback on overcharge.
Just as other tactics that can help vs scrappers.

Also people explaining a view that scrappers might need a playstyle shift to a bit more team support and a bit less 1 on 1 power. Rather than blindly nerfing.

What use are examples of a scrapper+dh+thief, unable to take more than 1/3 away of another scrapper his hp?
It does not point out that scrapper is not ok.
It points out that the 3 enemies were not very good if they cant take out a scrapper, while even having one on their own team.

Yashuoa.9527:

larocca.8391:

Watching a fotm scrapper tank every DH trap and theif burst while comboing off the other scrapper nearby to have insane leap heals and x2 turrets and x2 elixir mist, couldnt kill one at all.

All while having enough cc and damage to lockdown the DH and thief with one slick shoes

How is this even close to ok, he dipped to 1/3 health from that burst and from the dmg outout and lack of dodge rolls i assume he grabbed the marauder scrapper build from metabattle to fotm for a while.

Sounds like the dh, thief and other scrapper (lets call that one scrapper B ) were not very good if they couldnt blow up in 3v1 the enemy scrapper (lets call that one scrapper A).

Obivoulsy the dh alone or scrapper B alone, could give scrapper A enough trouble to win a fight 1 on 1.

When facing dh +scrapper B +thief in 3v1, obviously the other scrapper A has no chance.
There is even another scrapper, scrapper B, that he faces for goodness sake and a dh and thief on top.
If the 3 of them cant take more than 1/3 of the health away, than they were obviously not playing very well.

Only the heal turret resets btw on a 120min internal cd.
Not regenerative mist.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Medical_Response

Btw, many scrappers run with a toughness amulet now, called Paladin amulet, instead of Marauder.

As explained in this thread a few times, you can prevent the leap heal. In 1on1 and especially in 3v3 with cc and killing the turret or knockback on overcharge.
Just as other tactics that can help vs scrappers.

Also people explaining a view that scrappers might need a playstyle shift to a bit more team support and a bit less 1 on 1 power. Rather than blindly nerfing.

What use are examples of a scrapper+dh+thief, unable to take more than 1/3 away of another scrapper his hp?
It does not point out that scrapper is not ok.
It points out that the 3 enemies were not very good if they cant take out a scrapper, while even having one on their own team.

I explained a bit poorly, it was a 2v2, thief and DH vs x2 scrappers.
Focused 1 scrapper to avoid flailing about, hit him with traps and thief burst yet he recovered like it was nothing.

Although i didnt know people were shifting towards Paladins amu.

Still, having a -20% condi dmg trait with superspeed regen, leap heals and regen with that dmg output is incredible.

Is there a trait or gyro that eats stuns and dazes? Played one on my warr and it was immune without stability to all my cc.

If scrapper need nerf go nerf first reaper : death shroud high damage and high survivability, high condi spam also.
Nerf druid, high healing, cc, pet damage, 10 sec on avatar ok ok
Nerf tempest, with an aura share tempest you just do nothing
Nerf dh etc etc
I play marauder scrapper and trust me in a 5v5 situation, tempest, reaper, druid, rev are far better than scrapper. Yep scrapper is good in 1v1 because he has personnal skill but the other have team skill.
In ruby division there is no a lot of scrapper 1 max per 2 games. But 3 ele, dh , reaper, rev. So stop complain about a 1v1 lost and go play in team fight

larocca.8391:

Yashuoa.9527:

larocca.8391:

Watching a fotm scrapper tank every DH trap and theif burst while comboing off the other scrapper nearby to have insane leap heals and x2 turrets and x2 elixir mist, couldnt kill one at all.

All while having enough cc and damage to lockdown the DH and thief with one slick shoes

How is this even close to ok, he dipped to 1/3 health from that burst and from the dmg outout and lack of dodge rolls i assume he grabbed the marauder scrapper build from metabattle to fotm for a while.

Sounds like the dh, thief and other scrapper (lets call that one scrapper B ) were not very good if they couldnt blow up in 3v1 the enemy scrapper (lets call that one scrapper A).

Obivoulsy the dh alone or scrapper B alone, could give scrapper A enough trouble to win a fight 1 on 1.

When facing dh +scrapper B +thief in 3v1, obviously the other scrapper A has no chance.
There is even another scrapper, scrapper B, that he faces for goodness sake and a dh and thief on top.
If the 3 of them cant take more than 1/3 of the health away, than they were obviously not playing very well.

Only the heal turret resets btw on a 120min internal cd.
Not regenerative mist.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Medical_Response

Btw, many scrappers run with a toughness amulet now, called Paladin amulet, instead of Marauder.

As explained in this thread a few times, you can prevent the leap heal. In 1on1 and especially in 3v3 with cc and killing the turret or knockback on overcharge.
Just as other tactics that can help vs scrappers.

Also people explaining a view that scrappers might need a playstyle shift to a bit more team support and a bit less 1 on 1 power. Rather than blindly nerfing.

What use are examples of a scrapper+dh+thief, unable to take more than 1/3 away of another scrapper his hp?
It does not point out that scrapper is not ok.
It points out that the 3 enemies were not very good if they cant take out a scrapper, while even having one on their own team.

I explained a bit poorly, it was a 2v2, thief and DH vs x2 scrappers.
Focused 1 scrapper to avoid flailing about, hit him with traps and thief burst yet he recovered like it was nothing.

Although i didnt know people were shifting towards Paladins amu.

Still, having a -20% condi dmg trait with superspeed regen, leap heals and regen with that dmg output is incredible.

Is there a trait or gyro that eats stuns and dazes? Played one on my warr and it was immune without stability to all my cc.

Well that the thing there is nothing else in the game that can counter condition dmg like that (ele could to a point with its old dimon skin but it was easy to brake that). Your way too dependent on condition dmg to kill things for you and there realy needs to be more added to the game that hard counters conduction dmg like what scraper gets to the point i think a rune set is needed that give say -10% condition dmg taken.

The thing is scraper is not op it just counters the current meta in spvp and wvw stealth and conditions.

Nerf scrapper sounds, so annoying! :P

BE GONE WITH YOU VILE THREAD!

pls dont nerf my scrapper i just grinded out durability runes

Did anyone watch the finals?

Ya know personally I see people talk about scrapper and reapers and tempests and even condi mesmers or DH traps. Yet no one seems to talk about rev’s, at least to me this class is what turns the tides in any fight especially team fights to the point its insane and beyond annoying on top of the boons and crazy mobility. So while i agree everything is in a power creep scrappers need some tuning down I really think people should look at revs.

Hammer 3, adaptive armor and rapid regeneration.

Tbh though, Some of the scrapper is a bit extreme. Was on a worker warrior last night in wvw with 3k armour and hammer #2 from said acrapper was hitting me for around 2.5k per hit, that with the tripper leap and evade does seem a bit silly. And what’s even sadder is that they replace a thief in gank squad, seeing far more duo/tri people (scrapper rev chrono) in gank squads now. (Wvw)

I’d like to see scrapper nerfed in a way that doesn’t make core engi unplayable. Other posters have offered good suggestions, so I’ll just whine a bit more about weapons.

I’d really like to be able to play Rifle and not feel like it is so inferior to Hammer.

Rifle takes huge risks for not much reward. It needs to be relatively close to deal good damage (blunderbuss, jump shot). Its other attacks are projectiles that are easily reflected or blocked or nullified or druid walled or .. etc. etc. Its leap gives no evade frames and its cc is a liability when blocked or worse, reflected – reflected overcharged shot is back-breaking).

Hammer gets the same or better damage, while being a defensive weapon with much safer skills. Hammer 2 and 4 deal good damage while defending at the same time. Hammer 3 is 3 leaps and tons of evade. Hammer 5 is so good it could almost be an elite skill. None of them have the risk of projectile reflects or nullification.

In a PvP setting, I just can’t choose rifle over hammer in its current state.

However, if Hammer is nerfed (and it should be), the rest of the HoT power creep needs to be dealt with as well. Hammer/Scrapper is too good, but it’s necessary to keep up with the rest of the elite specs.

the problem here is all of you point out an instance you ran a bad build and got beaten and use that to generalize all scrappers , any profession that runs berserk/marauder will slap tons of damage on you any profession that runs paladin will dish out somewhat high damage and have some sustain against power skills , this is not a scrapper problem

larocca.8391:

Yashuoa.9527:

larocca.8391:

Watching a fotm scrapper tank every DH trap and theif burst while comboing off the other scrapper nearby to have insane leap heals and x2 turrets and x2 elixir mist, couldnt kill one at all.

All while having enough cc and damage to lockdown the DH and thief with one slick shoes

How is this even close to ok, he dipped to 1/3 health from that burst and from the dmg outout and lack of dodge rolls i assume he grabbed the marauder scrapper build from metabattle to fotm for a while.

Sounds like the dh, thief and other scrapper (lets call that one scrapper B ) were not very good if they couldnt blow up in 3v1 the enemy scrapper (lets call that one scrapper A).

Obivoulsy the dh alone or scrapper B alone, could give scrapper A enough trouble to win a fight 1 on 1.

When facing dh +scrapper B +thief in 3v1, obviously the other scrapper A has no chance.
There is even another scrapper, scrapper B, that he faces for goodness sake and a dh and thief on top.
If the 3 of them cant take more than 1/3 of the health away, than they were obviously not playing very well.

Only the heal turret resets btw on a 120min internal cd.
Not regenerative mist.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Medical_Response

Btw, many scrappers run with a toughness amulet now, called Paladin amulet, instead of Marauder.

As explained in this thread a few times, you can prevent the leap heal. In 1on1 and especially in 3v3 with cc and killing the turret or knockback on overcharge.
Just as other tactics that can help vs scrappers.

Also people explaining a view that scrappers might need a playstyle shift to a bit more team support and a bit less 1 on 1 power. Rather than blindly nerfing.

What use are examples of a scrapper+dh+thief, unable to take more than 1/3 away of another scrapper his hp?
It does not point out that scrapper is not ok.
It points out that the 3 enemies were not very good if they cant take out a scrapper, while even having one on their own team.

I explained a bit poorly, it was a 2v2, thief and DH vs x2 scrappers.
Focused 1 scrapper to avoid flailing about, hit him with traps and thief burst yet he recovered like it was nothing.

Although i didnt know people were shifting towards Paladins amu.

Still, having a -20% condi dmg trait with superspeed regen, leap heals and regen with that dmg output is incredible.

Is there a trait or gyro that eats stuns and dazes? Played one on my warr and it was immune without stability to all my cc.

try studying the professions you fight against before asking for nerf
the -20% condi trait is a Grandmaster, the super speed trait requires another grandmaster that makes gyros create lightning super speed fields on death wich answers your third question this said trait makes gyros give engi 1 stack stability for 6 seconds

your problem seems to be paladin ammulet and not scrapper itself

Infusion.7149:

If scrappers get nerfed I’d take a guess at:
Hammer 5 / thunderclap : damage or range
Hammer 4 / Shock shield : damage on a block skill , or it might be changed to aegis like well of precog…
Hammer 3 / Rocket charge’s triple leap finisher
Hammer 2 / Electro-whirl : recharge /damage maybe
Adaptive armor: armor or condi reduction
Stealth gyro interval and/or uptime
Bunker down cooldown (Core engi)
Recovery matrix’s protection duration
Rapid regen’s superspeed heals
Projection Injection uptime (core engi)
Medic gyro cast time 1/2 or 3/4s

They’re not going to give medic gyro a cast time. After BWE3, we were told scrapper would be getting a stun break, and we never got one. A few skills without a cast time can be used while cc’d, but nothing that breaks stun.

You want to nerf the hammer? So make viable all kit, allow the scrapper weapon swap.
With just one weapon it´s normal that we have both offensive and defensive cd. The problem is that when we want to dps, we have to use defensive cd, it´s a negative side.
The scrapper suffers against condi burst. But the reapers know it well i suppose.
Actually with a scrapper you can kill a good tempest or druid in 1v1 because he has just to run and you have nothing for gap closing, like chill, snare or immobilized.

Guys go play scrapper and you will see if it´s so cheaty against mobil target. You want to reduce our damage? Gunflame can hit with 12k, ranger pet dont talk about that, etc etc and you wine about the hammer damage? You have to play ranked and you will se when with the hammer 3 you do 900k crit on a tempest.

want to nerf engi and scrapper that badly ? alrite
get rid of warrior’s berserk burst skills
get rid of ranger’s scaleback pet, remove healing,daze, and root spam from druid ,also nerf ranger’s 20s duration 60s cd root elite
nerf mesmer blurr and distortion and get rid of alacrity and wells
get rid of boon corrupt on necro auto , lower mark and well radiuses to 120, increase cooldowns and no longer unblockable , remove the Rise shout
get rid of all of ele’s support effects on shouts , nerf ele condi cleanse and boon access
nerf thief damage by 40%, get rid of thief’s spammable teleports and shadowsteps and blinds
get rid of some of revenant’s blocks (particularly the sword evade) and make herald buff skills have higher costs
remove unblockable from DH’s spear of justice, make all traps blockable, remove boons from traps, increase bow’s 2 skill cd to 12s and lower its damage by 20%

Engi is over the top right now.