Guild Wars 2

I’ll have to gather my notes and type something more in depth tomorrow. tonight people are trying to sleep and i type too loudly.

Daigle.8497:

Grenade kit has a Poison field =D
Also, our only ice field is in fact, Mortar’s ability…

Also, I only put up the data to refute some claims that our wide access to fields and finishers stem mostly from our utilities, of which we can only carry 3. Going into detail may have been overkill =D

Haha, sorry, I eat my words. Can’t believe I forgot the poison field. I wasn’t referring to you, by the way.

As my Feedback I have to pinpoint a few things…
1. Kit builds have no use for Legendary weapons, or appearence in general.
2. The randomness of the elixirs has to go. I made a suggestion on an alternative on that mater.
3. He stull have some bugs… even after the Jan28 patch.

coglin.1496:

Maketso.5602:

Or that our Bombs have the only reliable fire/smoke field? Who uses a bomb kit these days? Never see it.

Alot of engineers I see, and I see them used all over in WvW. Do you have any actual logical to support what your getting at here?

Skilled groups thrive on using combos, so I guess the answer to who uses bombs for combo fields could be skilled players.

We have the least amount of reliable combo fields in the game,

Mmmkkaaayy.

Ice field, shows up 100% of the time I cast the ability to create it.

Fire field shows up 100% of the time I drop fire bomb

Light field shows up 100% of the time I drop super elixir

poison fields pops 100% of the time that I drop poison grenade

Smoke field shows ip 100% of the time I drop smoke bomb

Water field shows up 100% of the time that I pop healing turret

That is 6 fields that we get 100% of the time we use the skill that causes them. One and only one has a 33% chance to occur and that is not among the 6 previously mentioned.

Thieves get 5
Mesmers get 2
Necros get 4
Warriors get 1
Rangers get 5
Guardians get 2
Elementalist get 5

We also have access to all finishers. The most blast finisher, and second most projectile finishers. So please stop trying to pretend we are weak in the combo area when we are clearly one of the best professions at utilizing combos.

Perhaps you should invest some time learning about the professions comb fields and finishers before you attempt to tell us how they work

It doesn’t matter, the number of different fields and number of different finishers doesn’t matter. Why is this so hard to get through that thick skull of yours. What matters is how often and how easily you can get them. And having all different types of finishers doesn’t matter in the slightest when all my weapons and kits have close to none. 3 20% finishers on autoattacks, then it’s a leap finisher, a blast finisher and a projectile finisher on 20 sec, 30 sec and 40 sec recharges. And Jump shot is super unwieldy as a leap finisher because of all the delays and as a skill in general, but why would that matter to someone like you, you just want to chalk up that leap finisher. Let’s ignore that it’s a crap skill.

You’re constantly trying to spin facts like engineer is totally comparable in finishers to warrior. It’s not, not even close.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Also, just for clarification, the grenade kit has no combo fields or finishers

It does have a poison field. Just no finishers. Apparently according to anet, nades are not large projectile finishers (despite being affected by projetile reflects) nor blast finishers.

ManCaptain.3154:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Also, just for clarification, the grenade kit has no combo fields or finishers

It does have a poison field. Just no finishers. Apparently according to anet, nades are not large projectile finishers (despite being affected by projetile reflects) nor blast finishers.

Yep, already realized that was a stupid moment. The poison field on nade 5 is quite good, can’t believe I forgot it. Eh, it was late

I play only engi and ele and I don’t know so much about other profession because I never reached lv20 because got bored but…

Speaking of versatility between an ele and and engi everyone praise ele, because they’ve got 4 attunement with many skill and awesome utility but to me ele is not really more versatile than an engi.

I mean, if I engage a D/D elementalist I know that I have to pay attenction to updraft when he’s in air, fire grab in fire and dodge after 3 secs(not when he start cast) churning earth, if you can avoid few real threat eles effectiveness drop a lot(they’re still great at granting boon and heal to ally) because they’re bound to 9-12 seconds of attunement cd and huge(45+secs) burst/utility skill cd, but those long cd are compensated by the ability to switch between elements.

Now let’s say I engage an engi, if he/she has a rifle, it’a a static discharge and range won’t matter or is a 100 ’nades that will try to come in melee to burst me, if he has pistol, will he be a bomb kit fan or a pistol+elixir or will he use elixir gun or what else…

Engi got a lots of possibility and with just the weapon set don’t give enemy info about his build, I agree many our tool are bugged and/or underpowered but engi have lots of potential flexibility.

Eles(for now) are better as a support and have more things “that work”, but they’re more pigeonholed than we are.

I play all eight classes. Six of the eight are level 80, including my engineer. Things I think about the engineer:

I think the inability to swap weapons is a shame. I could ramble on and on why it’s structurally unfair to have to give up a utility slot to substitute for the other weapon, but others have come before me and expressed this ‘one-slot down to be equal’ premise quite well.

I think the RNG attached to our elixirs is a crap fest. I know it’s cute and all. But it makes us highly unreliable and spotty in our ability to help in both group PvE and WvWvW. Give us a check-box with the elixir so we can force what we want. Someone wants ‘might,’ fine. Someone else wants ‘healing,’ good for them. Give the player control over his recipe. Or, let me put it this way, if I’m preparing a cherry pie for dessert, it shouldn’t come out brussel sprouts because my oven has an RNG.

Turrets. They’re hopeless. A mendacious cool-down, little power and no mobility. You rarely see them and the last time I saw a turret was on a Level 7 engineer (who obviously hadn’t discovered how bad the were) when I back to Queensdale to farm bandits for butter…. On occasion I’ll see some dropped in Orr for cheesy DE farming, but so many of them don’t that’s notable for it’s oddity. What you mostly see is grenades, bombs and flamethrowers. Give turrets some mobility, like a golem or something. Reduce or eliminate the cooldown. Give us some power. Do not terminate them after time, but treat them in the same fashion as necromancer pets.

Many of the kits/utilities are close to useless and those that are useful, don’t scale well. Mines… They’re not blowing legs off. They’re not making people think “Oh my, better watch out, the engineer is laying mines…” Nope, we’re getting a little knock-back that is then lept over. And the toolbelt aspect of this skill is a horrible joke. Mines should make people think twice, possibly three times… Plus, a long cool-down? You’re kidding me…

Allow engineers to make choices vis utility belt skills. For example, a proposed new ability for equipping the bomb kit: Flour bomb which disperses a 20-second condition of ‘flour’ on stealth enemies (showing them up) in a 480 radius. You could chose to use this instead of the ‘Big Ol’ Bomb. An option, not a taking away. Instead of doing damage, it coats thieves and other hiders and turns them white with flour. That alone will make engineers far better.

Look at weapon dps. And that rifle skill with the knockback. That skill is awful. What’s the point of having a knock back that launches you off the cliff to your death? Or makes you helpless for a precious second in a tight WvWvW battle…

Anyway, lots of good suggestions in this thread. Consider them, please.

JohnDied.3476:

Anymras.5729:

coglin.1496:

Anymras.5729:

We could also use an option for fighting enemies with Reflects or Absorbs Projectiles that doesn’t involve the use of a kit. As it is, we’re the only class that doesn’t have an option in that regard without using a Utility slot just to get around it. (c’mooon, hammer)

Are you saying we do not have the option to reflect or absorb projectiles?

Or are you saying we do not have a counter for that?

Saying we don’t have a non-Utility counter for it. Every other class can equip a melee weapon, or has attacks that just don’t count as projectiles, while we have to use a Utility slot for the same effect.

Don’t other classes (except elementalist) have to use a utility slot to have reflect projectiles? I’d call it even that we take a utility slot to avoid it

Four have weapon skills that block projectiles:

Guardian — Shield of Absorbion (#5 Shield)
Warriors — Shield Stance (#5 Shield)
Rangers — Whirling Defense (#5 Axe)
Elementalist — Magnetic Aura (#3 Earth -- Staff), Swirling Winds (Focus #4 — Air)

Obviously, if you don’t have the weapons, you don’t have the skills…

Maketso.5602:

So coglin, can you explain how we have the most again since you just got proven wrong? And even if you were correct (which I don’t see alot of) , all of your “reliable” fields and whatnot come from kits? So our class is refined to wasting utility slots for these ? Wonderful. Especially since elementalists and other classes can make them without wasting utilities. Oh, and only skilled players use bombs? This is a joke. Read up on the class, bud. Bombs are useful in ONE situation: tank build. Hardly even then. Basically, you have to drop the fields with bombs then somehow make use of them after how long you’ve already wasted dropping them?

I got proven wrong? So I post how we very factually have access to creating more fields, and you claim I am wrong because “YOU” feel they are not reliable? Sorry, But I do nor feel using a bomb kit or grenade kit as losing an ability.

Now your going to go on and claim bombs are only useful in one situation? You tell me to read up on the class? I use bombs every day. Unlike yourself, I do not need to read about the profession to post about it. Unlike yourself, I know it from doing it.

Twist it, turn it, and make stuff up about it all you like my friend, we have the most fields avaliable to us. We have the most blast finishers variable to us. I am sorryh if the facts upset you, but claiming they ar enot reliable does not change the fact that we have access to them.

If you feel our kits are waste of utility slots, feel free not to use them.

Mesmer focus: Iwarden blocks projectiles and can be traited to reflect projectiles, along with phantasmal wall on the same weapon.

coglin.1496:

snip
I got proven wrong? So I post how we very factually have access to creating more fields, and you claim I am wrong because “YOU” feel they are not reliable? Sorry, But I do nor feel using a bomb kit or grenade kit as losing an ability.

Now your going to go on and claim bombs are only useful in one situation? You tell me to read up on the class? I use bombs every day. Unlike yourself, I do not need to read about the profession to post about it. Unlike yourself, I know it from doing it.

Twist it, turn it, and make stuff up about it all you like my friend, we have the most fields avaliable to us. We have the most blast finishers variable to us. I am sorryh if the facts upset you, but claiming they ar enot reliable does not change the fact that we have access to them.

If you feel our kits are waste of utility slots, feel free not to use them.

Yes. We have access to creating more types of fields. I agree factually.
More? no.

Also, we do not have the most blast finishers available to us. If you are including each instance of “Detonate Turret” for each turret, you’re kind of ignoring “Plant standard” for each banner. That’s kind of a double standard. (No pun intended)

Also, reading up on the other classes if you don’t have alts doesn’t hurt.

coglin.1496:

Maketso.5602:

So coglin, can you explain how we have the most again since you just got proven wrong? And even if you were correct (which I don’t see alot of) , all of your “reliable” fields and whatnot come from kits? So our class is refined to wasting utility slots for these ? Wonderful. Especially since elementalists and other classes can make them without wasting utilities. Oh, and only skilled players use bombs? This is a joke. Read up on the class, bud. Bombs are useful in ONE situation: tank build. Hardly even then. Basically, you have to drop the fields with bombs then somehow make use of them after how long you’ve already wasted dropping them?

I got proven wrong? So I post how we very factually have access to creating more fields, and you claim I am wrong because “YOU” feel they are not reliable? Sorry, But I do nor feel using a bomb kit or grenade kit as losing an ability.

Now your going to go on and claim bombs are only useful in one situation? You tell me to read up on the class? I use bombs every day. Unlike yourself, I do not need to read about the profession to post about it. Unlike yourself, I know it from doing it.

Twist it, turn it, and make stuff up about it all you like my friend, we have the most fields avaliable to us. We have the most blast finishers variable to us. I am sorryh if the facts upset you, but claiming they ar enot reliable does not change the fact that we have access to them.

If you feel our kits are waste of utility slots, feel free not to use them.

Your completely missing the point. Sure we have fields, but can we utilize them? Because we’re near the bottom for projectile finishers. So where is your combos that you talked about a page or 2 ago? Also, yea actually if you haven’t seen already, there is a consensus that kits taking utilities have been a damper on the class. And where is the versatility In the kits? Grenades are the only decent damagers at long range, also have a pathetic throw time and hit percentage to any skilled person maneuvering around you. Furthermore, read below about the thread on how little use bombs have. Your obviously fighting bad players. And I guarentee I have more hours ticked on my engine, more builds and more different styles played. So yeah, I’m not blurting crap, bud. But more importantly, lets get this thread back on track. Ill simply join the others that have ignored you.

No I am not missing any point

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqqb3zSiF27IyoCfWoH439pWfeIXpFEC;TYAqZMzImxOjbG5MA

This is a very functional WvW or even PvE build. Feel free to count the fields it produces.

There is also a consensus that kits have 2 skills per kit that are of equivalent function to 2 utilities from other professions. As for your complaining assessment of grenades, there are two many skilled players whose experience differes from your claims, Not to mention the hundreds of videos posted on the forums here for months displaying evidence opposing your generic blanket statements.

You seem to have difficulty learning and comprehending the simple fact, that just because you struggle with something, does not mean the rest of us do.

My favorite part is how you claim “. Your obviously fighting bad players.” Which is weird, because We were first in WvW last week, so it would be difficult for me to find a better class of players then #2 and #3 ranked servers. while some of my sPvP were against players listed in the rankings.

If you feel I am playing bad players, sent me a wisper in game, and we can get on a PvP server together, We bring friends and ask them to stay in the spawn point. That way me and you go one on one, so you can guarantee I am no longer playing bad players. At least I assume your claiming your better then the rest right? By claiming them as bad players.

Your build, sir.

7 fields (6 types) (Counting traits)
5 finishers (2 types, 2 20%)

11 possible combinations (although one is quite unreasonable to pull off)

Can I offer a corollary build?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmyO3eS9E+JA

4 Fields, (3 types), 8 Finishers (4 types) <—- 12 combinations.

Doublepost, but fun fact:

This guardian:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASBFlhDD5FCQEA

can field: 6 fields (2 types), 5 finishers (3 types). <— 6 combinations.

It’s odd, I’m on jade quarry too. Nevertheless, your the only one supporting your biased ideas. Not once do you provide constructive feedback, which is what this thread and class needs. And I don’t have a lick of trouble with my rifle tank build, it’s hilariously fun and successful on WvW. Anyways. One other think I would mention to add for the engineer would be re arranging the trait stats that are doubled together. What awful combinations

I’m going to chime in here, given all the pessimism – Engineer is, in it’s current state, very usable. It just takes some rummaging and testing to find out which build eats lightning and craps thunder. Several skills and utilities need work, I won’t deny that – however, there’s at least some functional framework within the dessicated chassis of the Engineer class. In fact, there’s enough to produce an incredibly efficient PvE damage build that drips with utility while still dropping mad deeps yo. At least we’re not the ranger class, who doesn’t have any good damage options for PvE (unless you count a cat/bird pet, which is pretty solid I’ll admit – when it’s not dead), or the thief class who has very little in terms of sustained damage output (their best option being sword/x as of this writing). Guardian’s best damage build got kicked in the groin last patch with the neuter to spirit weapons (30/30/0/0/10 or something along those lines, abusing hammer and sword commands for immensely increased burning uptime). Engineer is solid, between juggling various kit abilities that hit like a truck.

tl;dr – Engineer is incredibly usable, but most utilites are completely garbage, as are most traits. Tweaking is needed – but not an overhaul, the idea and concept are very solid. Turrets are the only thing I feel needs revamping, and possibly the RNG nature of elixirs – I’d rather get my toss elixir B to give me 3 seconds of every buff instead of a variable amount of one. Gadgets are also in a weird spot – most of them are obsolete compared to just running a kit for it’s comparable skill.

My biggest issues with this profession are:

-Your damage is downscaled because you have kits, regardless of whether you use them or not -> unnecessary disadvantage, since the kits aren’t really that awesome anyway. Buff Engineer weapon damage! Elementalist is way more versatile and has no disadvantage at all on his DPS.
-Severe lack of combo finishers on Engineer weapons in comparison to other professions while not having great combo finishers in kits, either.
-Engineers need 2 separate rifle traits to get what Warriors get with one trait. Why?
-Grenades without an autoattack really gets on my nerves. My fingers start to hurt and pressing 1 over and over again just isn’t fun at all. They should work on land just like they do underwater. The ground target system in this game is lame, anyway.
-Rifle #5 is in dire need of some quality of life changes. The animation looks clumsy, the landing takes way too much and the ability takes way too much time to finish. It should work exactly like Tristana’s rocketjump in League of Legends. The animation desperately needs to be more fluid.
-No viable ranged dps specc with weapons and no decent ranged dps kit. No, Grenades don’t count. (Sniper kit! Make it happen!)
-Flamethrower kit sucks, since the damage isn’t so great and it misses half of the time anyway due to bugs. Flamethrower #2 is basically worthless since it still bugs 90% of the time anyway. #5 should create a smoke combo field. The flamethrower just doesn’t feel like a flamethrower at all. The burning effect is way too weak.
-Turrets are still worthless. They have a way too low rate of fire, deal 0 damage, are destroyed almost instantly by any AoE and have way too long cooldowns. The turret toolbelt skills are unavailable when you deployed a turret kitten Picking them up should reset their cooldown completely.
-RNG on too many elixirs -> no tactical use on yourself and allies on some of the elixirs. Sadface.
-Pistol damage is underwhelming, even if you go for conditions. Elixir gun is kinda underwhelming, too.
-Pathetic ultimates. Mortar is a joke. Damage and range suck big time and the elixir is….just bad. Wonder if anybody used it, ever.

The majority of the traits should be reworked/overhauled.

nakoda.4213:

here is my problem with the problem you all have with the kits,

the engineer is designed around the kits. the whole class revoles around the kits. the kits, in essense are a form of stance dancing. you dance between the kits that fit your groove, and supplement with your weapons and your devices.

If that’s true then our kits should be F1-F4 and we should have our utility slots free.

I’m not seeing that.

the fact that we CAN slot all elixirs or non-kit utils means we are NOT based around kits, and if the devs are treating us as such it’s unfair discrimination. (we get to be the only class which has to sacrifice utility slots for our “core mechanic”?)

our weapons should hold their own in terms of damage unless and until kits become our F1-F4 and we have utility slots free.

the problem with turrets isnt lack of mobility as they are turrets the problem is the ridiculous cooldowns when compared to the low damage they can take and deal their effectiveness is next to 0% sure they can be usefulll in Rare ocassions but ask yourself what would an engi with a build made focused on turrets do when all his turrets are gone leaving him with all utilities with 20-60s cooldown. needless to say the toolbelt skills other than rifle turret and probably another one have cooldowns of 60s as well.

plasmacutter.2709:

nakoda.4213:

here is my problem with the problem you all have with the kits,

the engineer is designed around the kits. the whole class revoles around the kits. the kits, in essense are a form of stance dancing. you dance between the kits that fit your groove, and supplement with your weapons and your devices.

If that’s true then our kits should be F1-F4 and we should have our utility slots free.

I’m not seeing that.

the fact that we CAN slot all elixirs or non-kit utils means we are NOT based around kits, and if the devs are treating us as such it’s unfair discrimination. (we get to be the only class which has to sacrifice utility slots for our “core mechanic”?)

our weapons should hold their own in terms of damage unless and until kits become our F1-F4 and we have utility slots free.

They didn’t do this because they felt like the Engineer would be too similar to the Elementalist, then. I still don’t get how they felt like it was a good idea to restrict Engineer weapon and kit damage, because of the possibility to equip kits. Why did they design elixirs and turrets separately, then? They could as well have designed an elixir-kit, gadget-kit and a turret kit in order to force us to use kits. Instead, they gave us the possibilty to not equip any kit at all, but still nerfed the damage massively. It doesn’t make sense to me.

shedim.8504:

plasmacutter.2709:

nakoda.4213:

here is my problem with the problem you all have with the kits,

the engineer is designed around the kits. the whole class revoles around the kits. the kits, in essense are a form of stance dancing. you dance between the kits that fit your groove, and supplement with your weapons and your devices.

If that’s true then our kits should be F1-F4 and we should have our utility slots free.

I’m not seeing that.

the fact that we CAN slot all elixirs or non-kit utils means we are NOT based around kits, and if the devs are treating us as such it’s unfair discrimination. (we get to be the only class which has to sacrifice utility slots for our “core mechanic”?)

our weapons should hold their own in terms of damage unless and until kits become our F1-F4 and we have utility slots free.

They didn’t do this because they felt like the Engineer would be too similar to the Elementalist, then. I still don’t get how they felt like it was a good idea to restrict Engineer weapon and kit damage, because of the possibility to equip kits. Why did they design elixirs and turrets separately, then? They could as well have designed an elixir-kit, gadget-kit and a turret kit in order to force us to use kits. Instead, they gave us the possibilty to not equip any kit at all, but still nerfed the damage massively. It doesn’t make sense to me.

It makes even less sense when you include the utility slot penalty for the kits.

so let me get the logic here:

we LOSE utility slots.

so..

as a penalty for LOSING utility slots, our weapons also do LESS damage.

they must have some really really REALLY good ganja at the ANet headquarters.

Some people say that Engi is weak, some say we are just harder to play a have to play with no mistake. I don’t think Engi is weak, yes, I have trouble to fight guardian, I have trouble to fight elementalist etc. But I think most people started to play Engineer as second profession. My first 80 level was a Mesmer and I had some PvP with him too. At start I was dying of course and kitten off. Than I realized, stupid me, its always like this when you start in PvP with more experienced people.

There is few who say Engi is fine and you just have to get to it, find your way. Thats what I did in PvE, some people ask what build to use for PvE, don’t ask, experiment. Yes, sometimes you might die a lot, but hey, every death is an experience and the best one to know what you might use to defend yourself. You need blind against multiple mobs? Well you could ask yourself, do I take flamethrower or bomb kit? Or might be a pistol? Pistol is fine for blind, hits 4 targets, tho it jumps on them so sotimes you find yourself in a position where you aggro mobs you didn’t intended too. Flamethrower I liked more, you can send out your fire ball, set up a wall and burn foes how they come to you (if they are melee ofc), after that you can blind them and if they are still alive you can push them back – great for killing melee elite mobs alone. Bombs are cool on rangers, since pushing them back doesnt mean much difference for them, they can still shoot you.

You probably know where I’m getting with this.

In PvP it was the same, I had some known builds like dual pistols with elixirs, was nice but wasn’t it. After that I tried granades, now I’m trying 100nade build, that guy who made it find a great build for our class. Tool kit and Grenade kit + static discharge on pull and your grenade barrage from F skill? Just awesome. But my most favorite build is the one I almost never die with. It might not be so useful 1v1 sometimes, its a tanky kit build with tool kit, med kit, flamethrower and elixir gun + pistol and shield, but I always liked support classes and this fit fits me probably the most so far. So try a lot and find your way.

Btw since noone considers our class overpowered, we can really try a lot. If a class has some op build(s), most people hop on it, because hey, who doesn’t want to win. I like the challenge of not being an overpowered class because thats also a lot of versatility right there. Not that other classes wouldn’t have that, but I feel like those classes who have some op builds they are using them almost 24/7. I think people should try more different builds and learn what suits best for them. I’d love to see a warrior with dual mace for example, haven’t seen one yet I think. And same goes for other classes, I tried all on lower levels with weapons, its just like, what to try next? And than I log in my Engineer again.