Guild Wars 2

I’ve still been having a lot of success in tpvp. I rarely lose my node. I’ve also working on addressing the weak points of the build. Remember, this is a home-point bunker build. If you really can’t live without a stun breaker, i think that rocket boots would be the best. lowest CD and removes certain conditions. To deal with ranged opponents, i’ve been tossing around the idea of toolkit (magnet pull). personally i’ve never really liked toolkit, but i think some of you could make it would really well.

I’m working on posting a video were i have encouters with a staff mesmer, trap ranger and eles. I win all those fights. I still have never lost a 1v1 with this build. I’ll probably post it later tonight or tomorrow.

You’ll also notice (looking at you GrackleFlint) that i’ve changed the build a little build. I’m always looking to improve. You’ll notice i’ve used flame turret a couple times. With a 25 sec CD, its more appealing.

When i choose my utilities, its based off of the composition. For mesmers, flame turret works very very well. If there’s more than 1 thief i use throw mine. Rangers aren’t much of a problem like most people anticipate. Every ranger i’ve encountered folds when a lot of pressure is put on them. Meaning getting within melee range.

In the videos i’m gonna post, i’m running 20/10/20/20/0.

Fairtex.7810:

I’ve still been having a lot of success in tpvp. I rarely lose my node. I’ve also working on addressing the weak points of the build. Remember, this is a home-point bunker build. If you really can’t live without a stun breaker, i think that rocket boots would be the best. lowest CD and removes certain conditions. To deal with ranged opponents, i’ve been tossing around the idea of toolkit (magnet pull). personally i’ve never really liked toolkit, but i think some of you could make it would really well.

I just might try Rocket Boots. Rocket Kick deals massive burn, and has a short cooldown, and I can cope with the self knockdown of the utility. I dorked around with Toolkit for a few matches and really liked it.

I’m working on posting a video were i have encouters with a staff mesmer, trap ranger and eles. I win all those fights. I still have never lost a 1v1 with this build. I’ll probably post it later tonight or tomorrow.

I can’t wait to see these. Staff Mesmers have been chewing me up.

You’ll also notice (looking at you GrackleFlint) that i’ve changed the build a little build. I’m always looking to improve. You’ll notice i’ve used flame turret a couple times. With a 25 sec CD, its more appealing.

Heh. I’m looking forward to seeing the changes.

When i choose my utilities, its based off of the composition. For mesmers, flame turret works very very well. If there’s more than 1 thief i use throw mine. Rangers aren’t much of a problem like most people anticipate. Every ranger i’ve encountered folds when a lot of pressure is put on them. Meaning getting within melee range.

In the videos i’m gonna post, i’m running 20/10/20/20/0.

I’ll do some roster analysis and some pre-game utility swapping to suit what I’m seeing. Thanks for this idea.

Got a new video up. Its a part 1 of 2 video. This one is similar to the first one, i’ve edited out the parts without any action. I show all encounters. I didn’t ever try rockets boots or toolkit in this video. But you’ll see me using flame turret a few times.

Watching the video myself, i can see the mistakes i’m making. Plus when kitten gets crazy, technique can tend to go out the window XD. I do feel like i’m getting better though. Mainly from just time with the build, build improvements and fighting better teams.

Let me know what you guys think, and any changes/ideas that would be better.

@zaragoz

I tried the bombkit for one match last night. We fought a super zergy team so it was hard to tell. I never had any 1v1s either. I’m gonna mess around with it more.

Here’s a link to the new(ish) build i’ve been running. It feels better to me.

http://tinyurl.com/chhvd2r

Some more solid play from Fairtex. Thanks for sharing another video and the new(ish) build.

Did you take Forceful Explosives strictly for Throw Mine, or does it now affect our turret explosions as well?

edited: Looking at the video again, I’m seeing you alternate between Flame Turret and Throw Mine, and the addition of Deployable Turrets. Is the build link incorrect or did you mix it up during play?

Interesting changes to the build, I kinda think since you went 20 into inventions that reinforced shield is kinda sexy in comparison to cloaking device, but whatever is working. Over the past week I’ve actually ran into a couple of point holding turret engineers while running HGH power rifle build and I’ll tell you getting near that point without getting locked down is a real pain. Anyway good solid gameplay, I plan on revisiting the turret engineer sometime in the near future. Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Zaragoz

Grackleflint.4956:

Some more solid play from Fairtex. Thanks for sharing another video and the new(ish) build.

Did you take Forceful Explosives strictly for Throw Mine, or does it now affect our turret explosions as well?

edited: Looking at the video again, I’m seeing you alternate between Flame Turret and Throw Mine, and the addition of Deployable Turrets. Is the build link incorrect or did you mix it up during play?

Thanks Grackle, yeah the build isn’t really that different. I mix it up during gameplay depending on the composition. That and still experimenting with new things. I’m really likeing flame turret. I always did like it but would never have used it with the old CD, now its only 25 seconds. And it does a world of good as you can see.

I tried deployable turrets thinking it would help against ranged opponents, but I ended up deeming it unnecessary. I believe placement is just better. I gave up accelerant-packed turrets for that trait and boy did i miss it.

I took forceful explosives strictly for throw mine. Partly because the increased explosion area is noticeably larger and partly because there just isn’t any other really desirable trait to take. also, when i don’t have forceful explosives, thieves can still hit me with steal and backstab. when i’m using my flame turret, i’ll take shrapnel.

Flame Turret is a huge help vs. some Mesmers and minion Necros.

I agree about our adept Explosives trait choices.

*Acidic Elixirs: Doesn’t apply to this build.
*Shrapnel: Good for a full turret build with Accelerant-packed Turrets.
*Forceful Explosives: Bombs and Mines only.
*Empowering Adrenaline: Not bad, really. Without the usual defensive cooldowns we are always dodging and endurance is never full. This will almost always be on.
*Incendiary Powder: Our crit rate is too low. I’ve tried using a Rampager’s Amulet and Jewel but we lose 300ish Power and Condition dmg, and 3K health. Too big of a sacrifice to me.
*Exploit Weakness: Nice for the occasional runner, but too narrow.

shrapnel and accelerant packed turrets stack?

i learned something new today.

Grackleflint.4956:

I’m bringing this topic to the front page one last time because I think there is still some more build exploration to be done. Does anyone have a twist on a Turret build they want to share?

Since you asked, here’s one I’ve been theorycrafting. There’s a lot of people with good experience using turrets here I want to post a build I came up with the other day. I have not tried it, but I would like advice from those of you who can comment from experience better than I could on this particular part of the Engineer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyWnry3F1LJxoCMOUhED6RexLf/ogt0F;ToAAzCoogxUkoIrPOYk+MqYGA

Copy/paste. The stats were a bit better balanced in my PvE version, but this is the best I can do with sPvP available options. Definitely weaker to conditions without that extra ~2k health the PvE version has.

I want to keep constant pressure with conditions, and just annoy the heck out of them with knockdowns and immobilizes. To be honest this was adapted from a PvE build that I really made it for, using Rifle Turret (or possible Flame, but I think I’m already getting perma burn) instead of Net Turret but that’s a swap I would make for PvP. I’m also not 100% sold on the 3rd utility slot, but I do I think Rocket Boots fills a need in this build (stun/slow break, blast finisher, escape skill) while still sticking with the condition pressure nature of the build.

I built for pistol damage, with the idea that losing the turrets won’t hurt too much. I’ll still be pumping out tons of bleeds, poison, and perma burn. I’m going to see if I can try it tonight, of course with any tips given here before then.

What do you who are more experienced with turrets than I am think?

Whoa! Cool, a Dev that plays an Engineer!

That looks… frustrating to play against for lack of a better word. Not much for damage, but unless you run into someone with oodles of Stability I can’t imagine that build being much fun to play against at all.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Go turrets! Someone asked me to post my turret build, so this seemed like a good place for it:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.33.0.0.0.80.94.85.86.102.8.8.12.228.234.0.0.0.0.256.0.0.276.271.0.289.291.0.20.0.10.20.20

hey look first time a dev has posted in engi forums in the past 8 months

Can you make turrets more then shinys that blow up in after 1 second in WvW?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Go turrets! Someone asked me to post my turret build, so this seemed like a good place for it:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.33.0.0.0.80.94.85.86.102.8.8.12.228.234.0.0.0.0.256.0.0.276.271.0.289.291.0.20.0.10.20.20

Hows that invisible cooldown on kit refinement treated ya? I think your the last engi to still have it…..

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Go turrets! Someone asked me to post my turret build, so this seemed like a good place for it:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.33.0.0.0.80.94.85.86.102.8.8.12.228.234.0.0.0.0.256.0.0.276.271.0.289.291.0.20.0.10.20.20

How do you do against rangers with that build? For some reason I feel like ranged builds would have the upper hand against you

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Thanatos.2431:

Hows that invisible cooldown on kit refinement treated ya? I think your the last engi to still have it…..

It’s not perfect, but it opens up some interesting play possibilities, especially while stunned. I don’t have a stunbreaker in this build, but I can still swap kits while stunned, which allows me to pop a clutch magnetic aura while being pelted with projectiles, or a magnet bomb to interrupt a melee spike.

Penguin.5197:

How do you do against rangers with that build? For some reason I feel like ranged builds would have the upper hand against you

I don’t love fighting rangers honestly. Though I’ve got multiple magnetic auras to reflect projectiles, and a lot of ways to stall for time and keep them off a capture point. So I can give them a good long fight, and even occasionally get the victory.

I’m sorry but the new 20 second ICD on KT is exactly why we CAN’T have those clutch moments. You do realise with how it’s setup it’s basically impossible to get these KR procs when we actually want them right.

I totally agree about KR. I love the new effects (mostly), but a 20s global cooldown makes them completely unreliable. I would love it if each had an individual cooldown, it would be so much more user friendly.

Ideally I can see how the reflects can be nice, but it’s just not predictable when it shares a cooldown. I feel like to have them be predictable, you would only have to swap kits once every 20s+ so you know every swap gets the effect. Isn’t that kind of against the spirit of kit builds and Engineers in general? What do you think Tyler?

It’s unfortunate what happened to KR. I loved it in PvE and I only started PvP after the change and I traited out of it. After the first round of changes I could still reliably use it and it practically only the elixir kit one that I used by jumping. Admittedly this clunky jump thing was rather… stupid? And I bet the devs thought it looked stupid too.

Basically all the new KR procs are leaning towards PvP utility, unfortunately the long CD coupled with the fact that perma swiftness from kit swapping in and out of combat makes it unreliable. Also the builds that in theory could make KR powerful (multi kit builds) is also what makes it exponentially useless.

They should reduce the CD to 15 sec for each kit, no global CD and switch its place in the trait line with Scope, a broken trait that no one uses and that has been broken since release and evidently will never be fixed.

lol first time seeing a Dev in this forum… and they come in when someone starts talking about turret builds… hmmmm…something not many engi’s want…hmmmmmm

I think most of us understand and agree that it was too powerful, and the new power level I think is great. The problem is the predictability. If you are actively swapping kits you can never know which effect you’re going to get because of the global cooldown. Is this something that you wanted for this trait, for it to be a random benefit? I hope not, as it sounds like you intended for it — and you personally use it — for the specific effects at specific times depending on strategy.

It’s not about synergy with Speedy Kits though, it’s just about being able to reliably predict when the effect will proc and when it will not. If I haven’t used Med Kit in about 20s I should know without a doubt that when I do use it I will get Magnetic Shield. Currently I do not because I was also using Bomb Kit, or Tool Kit, or swapping between FT and Elixir Gun. It’s impossible to keep track of when the last effect fired and also be able to predict when the next one will fire unless you are drastically reducing the amount you swap kits, which brings me back to that being against the spirit of the Engineer.

I’m glad to hear you don’t want it to feel random, but unfortunately that’s exactly what it currently does for most players that I have heard from. I think simply making each effect on its own cooldown, even if you want to keep it 20s which I think is a little long, would do wonders for this. Was this on the table at any point, or is it now?

Adamantium.3682:

It’s not about synergy with Speedy Kits though, it’s just about being able to reliably predict when the effect will proc and when it will not. If I haven’t used Med Kit in about 20s I should know without a doubt that when I do use it I will get Magnetic Shield. Currently I do not because I was also using Bomb Kit, or Tool Kit, or swapping between FT and Elixir Gun. It’s impossible to keep track of when the last effect fired and also be able to predict when the next one will fire unless you are drastically reducing the amount you swap kits, which brings me back to that being against the spirit of the Engineer.

I’m glad to hear you don’t want it to feel random, but unfortunately that’s exactly what it currently does for most players that I have heard from. I think simply making each effect on its own cooldown, even if you want to keep it 20s which I think is a little long, would do wonders for this. Was this on the table at any point, or is it now?

this is great, but that still doesn’t fix how pointless some of the KR skills r now… im sorry but the Elixir guns KR skill is pointless… and with the KR being nerfed ives had to choose between drastically changing my engineers build (which sucks cuz i built him up with gear and traits to be a kit user), rebuild from scratch (which i think is stupid) or just playing another class… it sucks becuz i love the engineer class, its the most fun class ive played but the nerf has left me at a standstill with him…

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yeah, separate cooldowns was on the table, but it put the trait into the a little too powerful category. It’s entirely possible that we’ll revisit this trait again at some point, but for now that’s why it is the way it is.

This bums me out, I disagree but you’ve got the trump card as the developer. I don’t at all think a 2-3s aura, or 3s of Super Speed is at all overpowered once every 20s assuming perfect timing.

Thanks for staying up late to discuss this with me anyhow. I would appreciate that with any poster but being a developer makes it extra nice, so thanks for at least sharing your thoughts. Hey, I’m moving to Seattle in June maybe I can come convince you. (On a serious note visiting your HQ would be amazingly awesome)

Sorry to interupt this conversation, i’m taking the opportunity to post sinds you have the kindness to answer a lot of questions.

Do you consider at some point to make turrets overcharge instant abilities? Right now the mechanism feels a bit clunky because you will have to wait the end of your turret attack cycle to get its intended effect.

Bigest issue for me are with Cleansing Wave (healing) and Shockwave (thumper) when you need a quick way to save yourself. It would also be nice to be able to use the Smokescreen (flame) without the need to have a target in the turret range, allowing the engineer to have acces to a smoke screen without the need to attack someone.

My sugestion would be to tie off every overcharge abilities from their attack cycle and make them instant abilities, and for all single target turrets (net, riffle, rocket) make their overcharge have a seperated attack cycle and shoot the target you selected when using the overcharge giving better control to engineer when he is facing multiple opponents and keeping the same amount of shots whenever he uses his overcharge abilities.

Also could you check flame turret cooldown with deployable turrets trait, the cooldown is still at 40sec.

Thank you very much!

This Thread is about turrets, isn’t it? Why we discuss about KR? Intersting point btw to use it instead of stun breaker…

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Yeah, separate cooldowns was on the table, but it put the trait into the a little too powerful category. It’s entirely possible that we’ll revisit this trait again at some point, but for now that’s why it is the way it is.

I figured. Was it the combination of things like Grenade Kit > Bomb Kit or EG > GK > BK? Because every time I played that working out in my head, I saw a lot of damage, vulnerability stacks, and general “You can’t really deal with this without a blo- oh wait Throw Minewww” nonsense. The Offensive/Defensive capabilities of such a thing is strong enough to be considered a second Toolbelt.

Protip: No one would be sad if you made it powerful and swapped it with Adrenal implant or Armor Mods in Grandmaster. In fact, you’d probably find more people going deeper into the Tools line for it.

But let me not detract too much from the topic at hand, I’m certain you’ve read the same thing over and over in this tear-stained corner of the forums.

However, one thing I’ve noticed is that your setup is really good with KR. For me, anyway. I find that, when it comes to Bomb and Med Kit, I do the least amount of switching than any kit swapping than any other kit. Probably because the Toolbelt skills are perhaps the strongest part out of the arsenal. I can also go longer than usual without having to swap into them, or needing another kit for whatever purpose. The only gripe is that desire to spam Speedy Kits triggers, but I’ve gotten accustomed to the usefulness of Power Shoes when it comes to both chasing and running away. If it were me, I’d probably go with
-10 Alchemy +10 Inventions (Power Shoes)
-5 Tools +5 Explosives (since I’d want Inertial Converter with Med Kit’s main heal on your toolbelt)

I realize i’m a bit OT, but since we’ve got the occasion to talk with a dev, i could ask a couple things.
1) There was an elixir gun buff in the patch notes (but not applied ingame). So…are the patch notes wrong, or is the buff not working?
2)Regarding Kit Refinement, what about changing it to buff toolbelt skills instead of having effects on kit swap? I even made a suggestion thread about that, dunno if any dev had read it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Revamp-Engineer-s-Kit-Refinement-Yes-again/1730150

Manuhell.2759:

changing it to buff toolbelt skills instead of having effects on kit swap?

I kinda like this idea :P
Or KR efects could replace the toolkit skills , with extreme long cd( 45-75 sec)

Ambrecombe.4398:

Sorry to interupt this conversation, i’m taking the opportunity to post sinds you have the kindness to answer a lot of questions.

Do you consider at some point to make turrets overcharge instant abilities? Right now the mechanism feels a bit clunky because you will have to wait the end of your turret attack cycle to get its intended effect.

Bigest issue for me are with Cleansing Wave (healing) and Shockwave (thumper) when you need a quick way to save yourself. It would also be nice to be able to use the Smokescreen (flame) without the need to have a target in the turret range, allowing the engineer to have acces to a smoke screen without the need to attack someone.

My sugestion would be to tie off every overcharge abilities from their attack cycle and make them instant abilities, and for all single target turrets (net, riffle, rocket) make their overcharge have a seperated attack cycle and shoot the target you selected when using the overcharge giving better control to engineer when he is facing multiple opponents and keeping the same amount of shots whenever he uses his overcharge abilities.

Also could you check flame turret cooldown with deployable turrets trait, the cooldown is still at 40sec.

Thank you very much!

This is such a great idea. I’m ok with the turrets not targeting your target on their regular attack cycle(they target closest enemy atm) but i do agree that the overcharges should. We need to have some sort of control over them.

Thanks for chiming in Tyler. I like your build, it makes sense. Vigor is such an amazing trait for holding nodes. I wanted to fit it into my build but my overall choice of carrion amulet makes it hard. Do you use this build in tournament play? Looks really fun (and funny to watch people get so frustrated) to play.

Forestnator.6298:

This Thread is about turrets, isn’t it? Why we discuss about KR? Intersting point btw to use it instead of stun breaker…

it’s been the poor man’s stunbreaker of multi-kit engineers for a long time.
At least it has been mine

The cooldown hinders that for me though, I swap too often so waste the proc by the time I get stunned.

On the topic of turrets: their targeting needs work, and they’re still rather squishy.
I love the damage rocket turret does, it hits the hardest of all turrets, but if that one shot is wasted on a pet or something… it’s frustrating.

Yes rangers are indeed a pain to fight Also,

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Ultimately Kit Refinement was too powerful as a tier 1 trait, and so far we’ve been avoiding swapping the tier a trait is in. Other considerations were improving the weak kit refinement skills on Bomb Kit and Med Kit, reworking the really strong skills of Grenade Kit and Elixir Gun, and also any kit refinement proc that gives a skill that’s already on that kit, like the Caltrops on Tool Kit.

I remember someone had said they did not want tier 1 traits to be build defining, that is what tier 3 traits are for. I find it funny though that t1 traits such as static discharge and kit refinement were the build defining traits for engineers, mostly cause many of our t3 traits are underwhelming. So here is some quick feedback: Make our t3 traits stronger, Autodefense bomb dispenser has too long of a cd for a grandmaster trait. Piercing shots only has piercing – Other classes get that as a major trait (plus an extra effect with warriors). Adrenal Implant – I’m still confused as to why ours is grandmaster when rangers have it as adept.

Thanks for stopping by the engie forums btw

p.s. please don’t leave out mortars out in the cold

Forestnator.6298:

This Thread is about turrets, isn’t it? Why we discuss about KR? Intersting point btw to use it instead of stun breaker…

This thread got hijacked once a wild game designer appeared :P

Kimbald.2697:

On the topic of turrets: their targeting needs work, and they’re still rather squishy.
I love the damage rocket turret does, it hits the hardest of all turrets, but if that one shot is wasted on a pet or something… it’s frustrating.

At first it was very frustrating to see my turrets target the wrong thing. I’ve started to appreciate it to some extent because from watching some of my clips you can see where it has saved me. Plus, its not like a shot is totally wasted if it hits the ranger pet. they are annoying.

You’ll also notice that clones will attack my turrets instead of me at times. and they do squat for damage. If there was a way to make them target your target on command…

Fairtex.7810:

Kimbald.2697:

On the topic of turrets: their targeting needs work, and they’re still rather squishy.
I love the damage rocket turret does, it hits the hardest of all turrets, but if that one shot is wasted on a pet or something… it’s frustrating.

At first it was very frustrating to see my turrets target the wrong thing. I’ve started to appreciate it to some extent because from watching some of my clips you can see where it has saved me. Plus, its not like a shot is totally wasted if it hits the ranger pet. they are annoying.

You’ll also notice that clones will attack my turrets instead of me at times. and they do squat for damage. If there was a way to make them target your target on command…

the poor UI can be usefull and actually save you by targeting the pet or clone, but the thing is that it’s random…
You can’t rely on it.

my suggestion, to be more reliable:
1. my target
2. if no target, player attacking me
3. if no target, and no player attacking me: npc attacking me
4. if none of the above: do nothing, keep still, just look pretty and turrety and be still.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Thanatos.2431:

Hows that invisible cooldown on kit refinement treated ya? I think your the last engi to still have it…..

It’s not perfect, but it opens up some interesting play possibilities, especially while stunned. I don’t have a stunbreaker in this build, but I can still swap kits while stunned, which allows me to pop a clutch magnetic aura while being pelted with projectiles, or a magnet bomb to interrupt a melee spike.

Thanks for your response, it seems someone is getting some use out of it. I run mostly WvW and finding another Engi is like finding a hobbit on the battlefield. I know your talking mostly Tpvp but these nerfs really hurt us in WvW to the point that no one plays an engineer in WvW. The thumper turret change was nice if it didn’t fall over from people sneezing on it.

I would submit that while your worrying about about the class being overpowered, you look at how many are actively playing it, not just in Tpvp but in WvW.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Go turrets! Someone asked me to post my turret build, so this seemed like a good place for it:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.33.0.0.0.80.94.85.86.102.8.8.12.228.234.0.0.0.0.256.0.0.276.271.0.289.291.0.20.0.10.20.20

If you’re the Norn Engineer Hamond (sp?), then that was me who asked you in the HotM last night to share your build with us, and I thank you for doing so.

I think it took a lot of guts as a Dev to step up and share your build and your thoughts about our profession with the rest of the Engy community, and I thank you for trusting us enough to be open about your own personal play-style and for taking the first step by posting here.

I think, as a community, we needed a Dev to be present in the forums as more than just a Dev, but as a fellow Engineer playing this prof that we all love along side of us. Lots of us have trust issues with Anet as of late due to some Engineer design changes which we either don’t agree with or just simply don’t understand, so please believe me when I say that you being willing to talk with us here goes along way.

And yes, I like your build and I will be trying it out in the Mists myself over the next couple of weeks. Thanks again, Tyler.

Kimbald.2697:

Fairtex.7810:

Kimbald.2697:

On the topic of turrets: their targeting needs work, and they’re still rather squishy.
I love the damage rocket turret does, it hits the hardest of all turrets, but if that one shot is wasted on a pet or something… it’s frustrating.

At first it was very frustrating to see my turrets target the wrong thing. I’ve started to appreciate it to some extent because from watching some of my clips you can see where it has saved me. Plus, its not like a shot is totally wasted if it hits the ranger pet. they are annoying.

You’ll also notice that clones will attack my turrets instead of me at times. and they do squat for damage. If there was a way to make them target your target on command…

the poor UI can be usefull and actually save you by targeting the pet or clone, but the thing is that it’s random…
You can’t rely on it.

my suggestion, to be more reliable:
1. my target
2. if no target, player attacking me
3. if no target, and no player attacking me: npc attacking me
4. if none of the above: do nothing, keep still, just look pretty and turrety and be still.

The thing is its not random though, it targets closest enemy to turret. I’m not against your suggestions but if you make them target your target, target swapping (2v1s) is out of the question. Whenever you would switch a target for CC or whatever, your turrets physically take time to rotate, and they’re not attacking during this time. What i like to do in a 2v1 situation is pay attention to who my turrets are targeting and I will target the other player. Every so often i’ll be able to pull of a 2v1 this way.

I completely agree that you can’t rely of turret targeting. You just have to have great awareness and be able to make decisions on the fly. I know a lot of people don’t like the targeting AI, and i get it, but i personally have accepted it for what it is and found ways to use it to my advantage. But i know i could find ways to play with your suggestions too.

thanks for the post

Tyler, just some of my own feedback on turrets, I made these suggestions pre-patch, but I think they are still relevant. Also, i am not sure if fairtex or the other turrret engies saw these before the scroll gobbled up my ideas, so i apologize for reposting:

each turret should be a kit of its own.

5 = pack up/set up
4 = overcharge

2 – 3 ought to be extra skills, like drop bandage on a short cooldown or drop bandages on a long cool down for healing turret, or caltrops and an oil slick for net turret (small durations medium cooldowns, or whatever, within a small radius (like, 240) around the turret.

1 = attack my target (allows you to select targets manually and still change targets yourself)

Turrets should gain buffs from skills and elixirs like anything else.
Turrets should do enough dmg to make the opponent target the turret.
Turrets should be strong enough to survive sustained dmg for short periods.
Turrets should be able to be healed through sustained dmg for long periods.

This way we could swap between turret control and weapons/kits easily. and the turrets themselves still have their current abilities as their “auto attack”

Let’s say you have a net turret and a healing turret down, and you are fighting at the edge of their range, while your ally is in between them, you could swap to your net turret kit to spread some caltrops to slow your ally’s foe, then switch to healing turret and drop bandages for them in a matter of seconds while still engaging your own foe.

edit: re: cooldowns; our blast finisher buffing powers are great, we still want those. turret cd ought to be conditional, based on how it was destroyed.

picked up = 15 seconds
foe destroyed = 30 seconds
self destruct = 45 second.

The Autotool installation trait is where the 20% reduc in CD should be, giving 12, 24, 36 respectively.

Addendum: You could even adjust KR to have swap effects for the kits, and then move up KR to a 30 pt trait and move that useless adrenal implant down to the 10 level since the Vigor trait in the Alchemy tree is already 100% end regen and thus 100% better than our 30pt Tools trait.

edit 2: also, my current turret build
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.22.0.0.0.80.95.86.84.102.5.3.48.228.0.0.241.248.251.258.0.0.276.277.0.0.0.0.10.30.10.20.0

nakoda.4213:

Tyler, just some of my own feedback on turrets, I made these suggestions pre-patch, but I think they are still relevant. Also, i am not sure if fairtex or the other turrret engies saw these before the scroll gobbled up my ideas, so i apologize for reposting:

each turret should be a kit of its own.

5 = pack up/set up
4 = overcharge

2 – 3 ought to be extra skills, like drop bandage on a short cooldown or drop bandages on a long cool down for healing turret, or caltrops and an oil slick for net turret (small durations medium cooldowns, or whatever, within a small radius (like, 240) around the turret.

1 = attack my target (allows you to select targets manually and still change targets yourself)

Turrets should gain buffs from skills and elixirs like anything else.
Turrets should do enough dmg to make the opponent target the turret.
Turrets should be strong enough to survive sustained dmg for short periods.
Turrets should be able to be healed through sustained dmg for long periods.

This way we could swap between turret control and weapons/kits easily. and the turrets themselves still have their current abilities as their “auto attack”

Let’s say you have a net turret and a healing turret down, and you are fighting at the edge of their range, while your ally is in between them, you could swap to your net turret kit to spread some caltrops to slow your ally’s foe, then switch to healing turret and drop bandages for them in a matter of seconds while still engaging your own foe.

edit: re: cooldowns; our blast finisher buffing powers are great, we still want those. turret cd ought to be conditional, based on how it was destroyed.

picked up = 15 seconds
foe destroyed = 30 seconds
self destruct = 45 second.

The Autotool installation trait is where the 20% reduc in CD should be, giving 12, 24, 36 respectively.

Addendum: You could even adjust KR to have swap effects for the kits, and then move up KR to a 30 pt trait and move that useless adrenal implant down to the 10 level since the Vigor trait in the Alchemy tree is already 100% end regen and thus 100% better than our 30pt Tools trait.

edit 2: also, my current turret build
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.22.0.0.0.80.95.86.84.102.5.3.48.228.0.0.241.248.251.258.0.0.276.277.0.0.0.0.10.30.10.20.0

if each turret is a kit on it’s own, you lose all abilities when putting them down?
That turns them into full kits, and completely destroys the concept of turrets being seperate units.

The extra control on each turret might be rather nice, but in the end you only control one at the time.
And what’s worse: you can’t do anything except control your turret at that time.

I like kits, even if some improvements might be needed still.
But I don’t want turrets to be kits too.

I like them for being independant units that have seperate UI from what I am doing.
Not that I wouldn’t want them a tad smarter and stronger… but still independant of my own 1-5 skills at least.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Ultimately Kit Refinement was too powerful as a tier 1 trait, and so far we’ve been avoiding swapping the tier a trait is in. Other considerations were improving the weak kit refinement skills on Bomb Kit and Med Kit, reworking the really strong skills of Grenade Kit and Elixir Gun, and also any kit refinement proc that gives a skill that’s already on that kit, like the Caltrops on Tool Kit.

And giving rangers quickness EVERYTIME they pet swap as a FIVE point trait isn’t “too powerful”? I honestly try to understand where you devs come from but some decisions you guys make don’t really make any sense what so ever.

Kit Refinement wasn’t too powerful at all, if anything 2 of procs were useless (looking at you medkit and bomb kit) 100 nades was a crap shot one trick pony build that basically is rendered useless after you do your burst. If you want to nerf something, nerf that kitten HGH nade spec. But I guess I don’t have to tell you guys that because you are probably already planning on nerfing our very last tournament viable build to the ground as well.

Please rephrase your statement to “We thought grenade barrage burst was too powerful so instead of taking the time to redo the damage numbers we just completely erased a fun trait engineers loved because it rewarded constant kit swapping because we are too lazy”

Sorry gotta be blunt with this one.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Thanatos.2431:

Hows that invisible cooldown on kit refinement treated ya? I think your the last engi to still have it…..

It’s not perfect, but it opens up some interesting play possibilities, especially while stunned. I don’t have a stunbreaker in this build, but I can still swap kits while stunned, which allows me to pop a clutch magnetic aura while being pelted with projectiles, or a magnet bomb to interrupt a melee spike.

Penguin.5197:

How do you do against rangers with that build? For some reason I feel like ranged builds would have the upper hand against you

I don’t love fighting rangers honestly. Though I’ve got multiple magnetic auras to reflect projectiles, and a lot of ways to stall for time and keep them off a capture point. So I can give them a good long fight, and even occasionally get the victory.

I noticed that both of the turrets you’ve chosen have 50 second cooldowns. Do you feel the numbers are in a good place or do you see them changing? 50 seconds is an eternity in pvp as you know. It wouldn’t be so bad if we could count on shorter cooldowns on their tool belt skills allowing for at least 2 uses of them while we’re waiting for our turrets to come back online.

Regarding Kit Refinement the 2 second Magnetic Aura seems extremely short, and the delay on the Magnetic Bomb seems too long.

I decided to run your build in a dozen or so tPvP matches before I commented.

Can you comment on any of these issues?

waka.9826:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Ultimately Kit Refinement was too powerful as a tier 1 trait, and so far we’ve been avoiding swapping the tier a trait is in. Other considerations were improving the weak kit refinement skills on Bomb Kit and Med Kit, reworking the really strong skills of Grenade Kit and Elixir Gun, and also any kit refinement proc that gives a skill that’s already on that kit, like the Caltrops on Tool Kit.

And giving rangers quickness EVERYTIME they pet swap as a FIVE point trait isn’t “too powerful”? I honestly try to understand where you devs come from but some decisions you guys make don’t really make any sense what so ever.

Kit Refinement wasn’t too powerful at all, if anything 2 of procs were useless (looking at you medkit and bomb kit) 100 nades was a crap shot one trick pony build that basically is rendered useless after you do your burst. If you want to nerf something, nerf that kitten HGH nade spec. But I guess I don’t have to tell you guys that because you are probably already planning on nerfing our very last tournament viable build to the ground as well.

Please rephrase your statement to “We thought grenade barrage burst was too powerful so instead of taking the time to redo the damage numbers we just completely erased a fun trait engineers loved because it rewarded constant kit swapping because we are too lazy”

Sorry gotta be blunt with this one.

A better comparison would have been ‘Elemental Attunement’ in my humble opinion.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Ultimately Kit Refinement was too powerful as a tier 1 trait, and so far we’ve been avoiding swapping the tier a trait is in. Other considerations were improving the weak kit refinement skills on Bomb Kit and Med Kit, reworking the really strong skills of Grenade Kit and Elixir Gun, and also any kit refinement proc that gives a skill that’s already on that kit, like the Caltrops on Tool Kit.

Firstly, thanks for engage directly with the Eng community.
Your/ANet’s efforts to improve the Eng class have been appreciated, if a little misguided at times. I hope your posting here is more than a mere PR exercise and is instead a sign you and ANet will engage more closely with the Eng community when it making further changes to the Eng class.

On that point:

1. Did you read the threads on this forum about the Jan 26 changes to KR?
2. Did you take the Eng player community’s observations into account when you reworked the KR trait?
3. Did you notice that posts here were unanimous that the worst way to nerf KR was to give it a non-trivial GCD?
4. If you had paid more attention to the communities comments on the 26 Jan changes to KR, do you think you might have delivered a more useful 10pt KR trait than the one you gave us on 26 March? (This may be a bit close to the bone, so don’t answer this one if you don’t want to.)

You’ve made it clear no further work is planned on the KR trait. That strongly suggests ANet is not considering restoring trait support, at any level, for multi-kit Engs. To me that’s a shame, as it diminishes the Eng class overall (even with the old KR, multi-kit Engs were never especially powerful, but they were a lot of fun to play and had a very strong following among the Eng community). Still, as you’re posting here there’s a chance you’ll listen more closely to what this community has to say about the class it plays.

I have to say, it’s time ANet threw out the rule about not moving traits between tiers. Blindly following that rule with the KR trait has cost the Eng class a good chunk of its diversity, for no good reason. Just making up for that by improving turrets is going to take far more work (even with the effort already expended on turrets) than it would to provide an effective 20 or 30pt KR trait.

I look forward to you engaging more with this community when it comes to future changes to the Eng class.

TLDR: Thanks for posting, Tyler Bearce. Hopefully your posts are a sign you/ANet are paying more attention to this community, and we’ll get better improvements and less disasters in future changes to the Eng class.
p.s. It’s time ANet gave up its rule about never moving traits between levels.

Thanks for engaging with your customers Tyler – I really hope this wasn’t just a publicity action and you and/or others come back for more.

I think most engineers feel a major case of not being listened to at all:

1. We want less RNG, not some extra new & awful KR butchery RNG added.
2. We want our weak multi-kit swap builds to be supported not euthanised. The only reason multi-kits relied so heavily on KRefinement is because the rest of the traits do such a terrible job of supporting multi-kit playstyle.
3. Turrets need masses of work, especially in WvW where they evaporate in 0.1 seconds.
4. We’d like some versatility please, many of our kits are too weak compared to weapons, and we have only pistol, shield and rifle and no weapon swap. This is extremely few options.
5. The only reliable conditions removal now being in elixirs is another casualty of the KR mess.
6. The length of the Engineer bug list, it’s a bit embarrassing at this stage tbh.
   I’ll stop the list there before it gets too long.

Finally as a general point your class balance team appears to be over-worked, understaffed and getting blinkered or just plain inaccurate feedback. More staff are needed, someone needs to seriously consider adding a dedicated dev for each class (8 total) ontop of the current team. If your classes are evolving well then every single piece of gameplay gets a massive boost, and especially any weaker performing game modes will pick up numbers, and the reverse is true also.

Kimbald.2697:

nakoda.4213:

Tyler, just some of my own feedback on turrets, I made these suggestions pre-patch, but I think they are still relevant. Also, i am not sure if fairtex or the other turrret engies saw these before the scroll gobbled up my ideas, so i apologize for reposting:

each turret should be a kit of its own.

5 = pack up/set up
4 = overcharge

2 – 3 ought to be extra skills, like drop bandage on a short cooldown or drop bandages on a long cool down for healing turret, or caltrops and an oil slick for net turret (small durations medium cooldowns, or whatever, within a small radius (like, 240) around the turret.

1 = attack my target (allows you to select targets manually and still change targets yourself)

Turrets should gain buffs from skills and elixirs like anything else.
Turrets should do enough dmg to make the opponent target the turret.
Turrets should be strong enough to survive sustained dmg for short periods.
Turrets should be able to be healed through sustained dmg for long periods.

This way we could swap between turret control and weapons/kits easily. and the turrets themselves still have their current abilities as their “auto attack”

Let’s say you have a net turret and a healing turret down, and you are fighting at the edge of their range, while your ally is in between them, you could swap to your net turret kit to spread some caltrops to slow your ally’s foe, then switch to healing turret and drop bandages for them in a matter of seconds while still engaging your own foe.

edit: re: cooldowns; our blast finisher buffing powers are great, we still want those. turret cd ought to be conditional, based on how it was destroyed.

picked up = 15 seconds
foe destroyed = 30 seconds
self destruct = 45 second.

The Autotool installation trait is where the 20% reduc in CD should be, giving 12, 24, 36 respectively.

Addendum: You could even adjust KR to have swap effects for the kits, and then move up KR to a 30 pt trait and move that useless adrenal implant down to the 10 level since the Vigor trait in the Alchemy tree is already 100% end regen and thus 100% better than our 30pt Tools trait.

edit 2: also, my current turret build
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.22.0.0.0.80.95.86.84.102.5.3.48.228.0.0.241.248.251.258.0.0.276.277.0.0.0.0.10.30.10.20.0

if each turret is a kit on it’s own, you lose all abilities when putting them down?
That turns them into full kits, and completely destroys the concept of turrets being seperate units.

The extra control on each turret might be rather nice, but in the end you only control one at the time.
And what’s worse: you can’t do anything except control your turret at that time.

I like kits, even if some improvements might be needed still.
But I don’t want turrets to be kits too.

I like them for being independant units that have seperate UI from what I am doing.
Not that I wouldn’t want them a tad smarter and stronger… but still independant of my own 1-5 skills at least.

how would this destroy their independence?

right now all you get is an over charge after you put it down.

the idea i posted would allow you to drop the turret (or deploy it, trait depending) and then it is still on it’s own. This idea allows you to then swap to the turrets “controls” to reasign a target or drop down some extra abilities, or use the over charge, or pick it back up again.

not sure where that ruins their independence or interferes with current swapping capabilities.

the whole premise is that each turret is it’s own kit. the utility slot is the “swap to kit” just like any kit, and you get a full bar of 5 abilities, then you swap out to something else, just like we do now.

this idea was a reaction an idea to put all turrets in one kit, which i believe would be far too limiting. rather, increase the utility and function of each turret by giving it its own “kit”

controlling them one at a time is the idea.

ie: possible combo using idea above:
net shot (toolbelt) → drop net turret → overcharge (skill #4) → ft 2 → caltrops in radius around turret (say, kit #2) → ft 3 → oil slick (net turret #1, perhaps) → ft 1 (ignites the oil)

or whatever, really. i don’t see this idea hindering the play or use of your turrets at all, especially since we can swap kits at will. you still place then and let them do their thing. the kit abilities are extra utilities built in to the turrets and the “kit” is like your remote control.

you could be on one side of a point fighting, your allies on the other near your turrets, and swap to turret skills to aid allies while still engaging a foe where you are, slick as chicken louie.

Kalan.9705:

Thanks for engaging with your customers Tyler – I really hope this wasn’t just a publicity action and you and/or others come back for more.

I think most engineers feel a major case of not being listened to at all:

1. We want less RNG, not some extra new & awful KR butchery RNG added.
2. We want our weak multi-kit swap builds to be supported not euthanised. The only reason multi-kits relied so heavily on KRefinement is because the rest of the traits do such a terrible job of supporting multi-kit playstyle.
3. Turrets need masses of work, especially in WvW where they evaporate in 0.1 seconds.
4. We’d like some versatility please, many of our kits are too weak compared to weapons, and we have only pistol, shield and rifle and no weapon swap. This is extremely few options.
5. The only reliable conditions removal now being in elixirs is another casualty of the KR mess.
6. The length of the Engineer bug list, it’s a bit embarrassing at this stage tbh.
   I’ll stop the list there before it gets too long.

Finally as a general point your class balance team appears to be over-worked, understaffed and getting blinkered or just plain inaccurate feedback. More staff are needed, someone needs to seriously consider adding a dedicated dev for each class (8 total) ontop of the current team. If your classes are evolving well then every single piece of gameplay gets a massive boost, and especially any weaker performing game modes will pick up numbers, and the reverse is true also.

Good summary, Kalan.