Guild Wars 2

You know, I’ve been around here (and reddit) defending traps. I think they have a place in this game and I’m glad you are looking at improving them. That would be beneficial. Although I like the idea of traps and will enjoy the gameplay, even I can agree that the response has been primarily negative. I can understand the frustration considering we still have no idea what to expect or the direction traps are going to take. I think its telling that the suggestions and feedback all centre around scrapping them in favour of another choice.

I like the longbow, though. I’m not sure I like the way the

I remember it had been mentioned that Tomes would someday be brought back into the game. I’m surprised this wasn’t the first choice for the elite specialization. Traps are interesting to me, but tomes as kits would have been a far more interesting choice. Removing weapon swap wouldn’t impact this playstyle much because it would pair very well with the longbow since it does quite a lot to keep things controlled at various ranges. The new physical manifestations of the virtues helps to take away the downside of giving up a second weapon by giving player mobility, damage/control, and mobile defense. Then add tomes as the utility that work like kits. Two of them are already pretty much ready to go from before the June 23 update.

Not to mention this would add diversity to the classes that can focus heavily on healing as a support playstyle with a return of Tome of Courage. There’s nothing quite like the Revenant Centaur stance anywhere else in the game, so providing a second option for players to focus on that playstyle would be far more welcome than trying to emulate the already existing trapper playstyle.

Cheekily, I might add, the part many others would enjoy would be the inevitable name change.

I know it is probably far too late to consider throwing the towel in on traps. I know this is probably not the type of suggestion you can even consider acting on. I feel it’s worth putting it out there, though. The problem is clear – traps are not liked, not popular, and for most people, aren’t turning out very fun. History is filled with disasters because complex actions and plans were too lumberous to stop. Consider stopping the train anyway.

still doesn’t address the glaring problem of can’t activate virtues while channeling RF

Looks perfect to me personally. Minus the traps I think the class is perfect. I planned on using my guardian utility skills anyways.

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

I intend to have fun =) That is the point after all.

I have no problem with them getting changes/buffs/whatever, but people that are saying “scrap traps completely”, I disagree with.

As an aside, saying that so many of our utilities are already stupidly strong so traps should be replaced with something equally stupidly strong is… kind of stupid. =P

Dude your main is ranger, go play with your trap ranger then. Leave our constructive feedback.

Dude, no it’s not. Not that that’s entirely relevant.

I’ll repeat, I’m not against constructive feedback for traps or them getting altered/buffed, I’m quite in favour of some suggestions I’ve seen here like more fluid longbow play and being able to have multiple iterations of the same trap out at once, I’m just saying that saying “the majority hates traps” is a statement that’s very susceptible to selection bias, that asking for them to be scrapped completely isn’t constructive feedback and is a fairly unrealistic expectation at this point, and that if you’re not excited for it that doesn’t mean that no one’s excited for it. Maybe the next elite spec released will be more to your personal tastes.

Rashagar.8349:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

I intend to have fun =) That is the point after all.

I have no problem with them getting changes/buffs/whatever, but people that are saying “scrap traps completely”, I disagree with.

As an aside, saying that so many of our utilities are already stupidly strong so traps should be replaced with something equally stupidly strong is… kind of stupid. =P

Dude your main is ranger, go play with your trap ranger then. Leave our constructive feedback.

Dude, no it’s not. Not that that’s entirely relevant.

I’ll repeat, I’m not against constructive feedback for traps or them getting altered/buffed, I’m quite in favour of some suggestions I’ve seen here like more fluid longbow play and being able to have multiple iterations of the same trap out at once, I’m just saying that saying “the majority hates traps” is a statement that’s very susceptible to selection bias, that asking for them to be scrapped completely isn’t constructive feedback and is a fairly unrealistic expectation at this point, and that if you’re not excited for it that doesn’t mean that no one’s excited for it. Maybe the next elite spec released will be more to your personal tastes.

I’ve seen 3, or 4 ppl liking traps, other 99% are suggesting change to something else or they have no desire to play with traps at all. Just read reddit and forums little better. Traps are not needed by guardians as we have already broken spirit weapons and sigils that nobody uses. Meditations, shouts (mostly) and consecrations (rarely) are used while spirit weapons, and sigils are not used at all – or used few times until they realize how they suck (this is from a perspective of 80lv competitive pve,pvp,wvw players).

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

I intend to have fun =) That is the point after all.

I have no problem with them getting changes/buffs/whatever, but people that are saying “scrap traps completely”, I disagree with.

As an aside, saying that so many of our utilities are already stupidly strong so traps should be replaced with something equally stupidly strong is… kind of stupid. =P

Dude your main is ranger, go play with your trap ranger then. Leave our constructive feedback.

Dude, no it’s not. Not that that’s entirely relevant.

I’ll repeat, I’m not against constructive feedback for traps or them getting altered/buffed, I’m quite in favour of some suggestions I’ve seen here like more fluid longbow play and being able to have multiple iterations of the same trap out at once, I’m just saying that saying “the majority hates traps” is a statement that’s very susceptible to selection bias, that asking for them to be scrapped completely isn’t constructive feedback and is a fairly unrealistic expectation at this point, and that if you’re not excited for it that doesn’t mean that no one’s excited for it. Maybe the next elite spec released will be more to your personal tastes.

I’ve seen 3, or 4 ppl liking traps, other 99% are suggesting change to something else or they have no desire to play with traps at all. Just read reddit and forums little better.

Yup, that’d be the selection bias I was talking about. (mixed with a healthy dose of hyperbole). Nicely demonstrated =P

Vikkela.7261:

Q: How will Hunter’s Determination (Aegis and Trap when controlled) function when Retaliatory Subconscious (Aegis and Retaliation when controlled) is traited at the same time?
Will they collide or will we be able to, say: get CC -> proc one of traits -> get aegis -> get aegis removed -> get CC again -> proc second trait OR will both be on cooldown straight after the first CC and we should make sure we never pick both traits at the same time?

Both traits should proc at the same time. The idea is that when you take Hunter’s Determination you take it instead of Retaliatory Subconscious. Isn’t it better to pick Hunter’s Determination + Unscathed Contender (+20% more dmg while under the effect of Aegis)?

Maybe, just maybe, remember what we had in GW1. Make them expire after a certain duration, but remove the 1 trap cap and let us lay down infinite number of them.

What do you say Karl?

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

I intend to have fun =) That is the point after all.

I have no problem with them getting changes/buffs/whatever, but people that are saying “scrap traps completely”, I disagree with.

As an aside, saying that so many of our utilities are already stupidly strong so traps should be replaced with something equally stupidly strong is… kind of stupid. =P

Dude your main is ranger, go play with your trap ranger then. Leave our constructive feedback.

Dude, no it’s not. Not that that’s entirely relevant.

I’ll repeat, I’m not against constructive feedback for traps or them getting altered/buffed, I’m quite in favour of some suggestions I’ve seen here like more fluid longbow play and being able to have multiple iterations of the same trap out at once, I’m just saying that saying “the majority hates traps” is a statement that’s very susceptible to selection bias, that asking for them to be scrapped completely isn’t constructive feedback and is a fairly unrealistic expectation at this point, and that if you’re not excited for it that doesn’t mean that no one’s excited for it. Maybe the next elite spec released will be more to your personal tastes.

I’ve seen 3, or 4 ppl liking traps, other 99% are suggesting change to something else or they have no desire to play with traps at all. Just read reddit and forums little better. Traps are not needed by guardians as we have already broken spirit weapons and sigils that nobody uses. Meditations, shouts (mostly) and consecrations (rarely) are used while spirit weapons, and sigils are not used at all – or used few times until they realize how they suck (this is from a perspective of 80lv competitive pve,pvp,wvw players).

Consecrations see a lot of use – Wall of Reflection and Purging Flames are skills I see used in PvE and WvW all the time.

Replace traps with spirits and I think we’re set.

Darknicrofia.2604:

still doesn’t address the glaring problem of can’t activate virtues while channeling RF

That would be the specific intent of the design. Play with a different Elite for a change.

Vikkela.7261:

Q: How will Hunter’s Determination (Aegis and Trap when controlled) function when Retaliatory Subconscious (Aegis and Retaliation when controlled) is traited at the same time?
Will they collide or will we be able to, say: get CC -> proc one of traits -> get aegis -> get aegis removed -> get CC again -> proc second trait OR will both be on cooldown straight after the first CC and we should make sure we never pick both traits at the same time?

Um, why wouldn’t both effects trigger? Aegis stacks duration. Done. No conflict.

Rashagar.8349:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

Sankofa Jimiyu.1567:

Am I one of the few that likes traps on a Dragonhunter?
It is a support mechanic on a heavy armor class, and I think that can be confusing in itself, but that’s the Guardian’s bread and butter.
Thematically, Dragonhunters are based on witch hunters. The idea of casting runes to bind opponents works with that.
Currently I have a style with my husband that has my Dragonhunter running support for his Daredevil. It has a nice synergy with the other new specializations, and with group play, but I understand it is a little awkward to play it alone.

I think people saying “the majority dislike traps” are just flat out lying/making baseless sweeping statements/suffering from information selection bias. You’re definitely not alone in liking them. =)

Have fun liking them. Every competitive and smart Guardian won’t replace shouts/meditations/consecrations to them. Srry but traps are bad in every aspect of team/solo play. They are fun because its new stuff but don’t count to be useful.

I intend to have fun =) That is the point after all.

I have no problem with them getting changes/buffs/whatever, but people that are saying “scrap traps completely”, I disagree with.

As an aside, saying that so many of our utilities are already stupidly strong so traps should be replaced with something equally stupidly strong is… kind of stupid. =P

If “every competitive and smart guardian” is so completely averse to playing with new toys because they can’t survive without even one shout/meditation/consecration on their bar, that’s hardly my concern (which I highly doubt you speak for all of them, never mind speaking for any of them, since my definition of a competitive and smart guardian is someone who switches things up and experiments)

Try to remember to have fun out there =)

1. The evidence is there. Not many people play traps on Ranger and even less than that play traps on thief.

2. Your definition of a “competitive” Guardian is incorrect. A competitive Guardian would be a Guardian player that plays the game at a competitive level. That’s not a subjective definition. It means they are literally competitive, and that typically means that they know their stuff based on high-level experience.

TRAPS

I am perfectly happy with the Dragonhunter getting traps as their additional utility skill-type, but the traps themselves still need a little more payout for the risks.

• Purification. As it’s name suggests it needs to address conditions. Add “Placing this trap removes 1 condition from the Dragonhunter. When this trap is triggered convert 1 condition on the Dragonhunter to a boon.”
• Fragments of Faith. Still the gem of the set.
• Light’s Judgment. It’s right there in the name… Add “Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Test of Faith. Add “Placing this trap is a stunbreak. Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Procession of Blades. Spin to win! Add “First and final damage pulse are whirl finishers.”
• Dragon’s Maw. Needs more cowbell! Add “Downed enemies in the attack radius are killed at the end of the duration.” (using tech seen in the Daredevil Elite)

Adding a cleanse convert to the healing trap, a stun break to what is arguably the weakest of the traps, and a little more indirect condition cleansing through light fields will go a long way towards making trap-heavy or even all traps builds have the survivability to actually use the traps line.

Black Box.9312:

Rashagar.8349:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rashagar.8349:

Sankofa Jimiyu.1567:

Am I one of the few that likes traps on a Dragonhunter?
It is a support mechanic on a heavy armor class, and I think that can be confusing in itself, but that’s the Guardian’s bread and butter.
Thematically, Dragonhunters are based on witch hunters. The idea of casting runes to bind opponents works with that.
Currently I have a style with my husband that has my Dragonhunter running support for his Daredevil. It has a nice synergy with the other new specializations, and with group play, but I understand it is a little awkward to play it alone.

I think people saying “the majority dislike traps” are just flat out lying/making baseless sweeping statements/suffering from information selection bias. You’re definitely not alone in liking them. =)

Have fun liking them. Every competitive and smart Guardian won’t replace shouts/meditations/consecrations to them. Srry but traps are bad in every aspect of team/solo play. They are fun because its new stuff but don’t count to be useful.

I intend to have fun =) That is the point after all.

I have no problem with them getting changes/buffs/whatever, but people that are saying “scrap traps completely”, I disagree with.

As an aside, saying that so many of our utilities are already stupidly strong so traps should be replaced with something equally stupidly strong is… kind of stupid. =P

If “every competitive and smart guardian” is so completely averse to playing with new toys because they can’t survive without even one shout/meditation/consecration on their bar, that’s hardly my concern (which I highly doubt you speak for all of them, never mind speaking for any of them, since my definition of a competitive and smart guardian is someone who switches things up and experiments)

Try to remember to have fun out there =)

1. The evidence is there. Not many people play traps on Ranger and even less than that play traps on thief.

2. Your definition of a “competitive” Guardian is incorrect. A competitive Guardian would be a Guardian player that plays the game at a competitive level. That’s not a subjective definition. It means they are literally competitive, and that typically means that they know their stuff based on high-level experience.

You’re forgetting the “smart” subclause =P

Edit
Now I feel it important to say I’m not actually calling anyone stupid, I’m just saying that I wasn’t defining just a competitive guardian. And “smart” is subjective. So nyeh =P

Things are looking better but I would really . . . and I’ve heard others say this.

Wish that DH got a taunt of some kind. Why? This would make traps amazing.

Just my two cents. No one has to like it. But I do. XD

Spear of justice: Changes are ok, but i still see the “active” part spear of justice being ignored because you can buff the passive to be so strong and nice, that not having it for for 20 sec is a huge disadvantage. (Cooldown needs be alot lower OR make so passive works when spear is on cooldown. ): Ofc this i jsut view i have from trying to make a condi dragonhunter
Wings of Resolve: I already liked this ability. Lowered cooldown means so more nice healing from it. So pretty happy there.
Shield of Courage: Cooldown is still way to long. Though blocking everything could make it fun for dragonhunter that burns on block to turn it into a damage ability when timing it right.
Random Idea: for one major row of traits put in a trait for each virtue(bulwark/Zealot’s Aggression/soaring devastation) and then add “passive work when this is on cooldown”. This way dragon hunter can choose they favorit virtue for build and use it alot. While other 2 virtues need more thought about if they worth using.
—————————-
Longbow
Puncture Shot: Faster speed is never bad. But dunno how good this is to i try it out.
True Shot: More damage is always good
Deflecting Shot: I love this idea of double skill shot. First it can be used to block high damage range attack. But if you also hit target same time, you getting a nice damage boost.
Symbol of Energy: Thank you for keeping burn and even adding more on. I was sad when i heard the burn was going away, since was more or less only thing dragon hunter had for a condi/burn spec.
—————————-
Traits:
Piercing Light: I will miss the bleed for procession of blade. Faster recharge is always good and i could see daze being usefull at times.
Hunter’s Fortification: Some condi cleanse never hurts and has synergies with other stuff.
Dulled Senses: This by itself seem rather lackluster. But but then it comboes so great with next trait, i am actually perfectly fine with it!
Zealot’s Aggression: This trait i like. First it gives us good amount cripple that can be trait to proc even more often and we get more damaage to crippled targets. But what makes it shine for me is that with dulled senses we also applying vuln every proc.

My only problem with dragon hunter now is, for condition builds. I wish there was more then 1 condi output for dragon hunter. so they had burn and 1 more damaging condition (Making cripple do damage and scale of condi, would work perfect with new traits and give condi DH the 2 damage source for condition.). But hell this is me dreaming because of promise of more condi stuff for dragon hunter!

Just my input on what it is planned. I am starting to like dragon hunter more and more.
( though this build is sounding better now http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJARTnsABlDhNDBedCEEhlAiSu7L/03KAeg3MLBbwJE-TxhAABCcJFgZ/B0U+BpSQAeSBmq+T06aCAgAsbdju1Ni3i7W3Gv4Fv4Fv4Z36W36W36mUAKq2C-e )

PLEASE ADD A TRAIT THAT GIVES PASSIVE 25% MOVEMENT SPEED!!! After this expansion, Guardian will the be ONLY class that does not have this. Please be fair here..

Josh XT.6053:

PLEASE ADD A TRAIT THAT GIVES PASSIVE 25% MOVEMENT SPEED!!! After this expansion, Guardian will the be ONLY class that does not have this. Please be fair here..

I wished for this too. Everytime I ask for it someone goes ballistic like I asked for them to be able to fly.

Josh XT.6053:

PLEASE ADD A TRAIT THAT GIVES PASSIVE 25% MOVEMENT SPEED!!! After this expansion, Guardian will the be ONLY class that does not have this. Please be fair here..

I’m not arguing against this, as I would love Guardian to have it, but this isn’t strictly true. Although Revenant has great access to swiftness post-80 via herald, it doesn’t have a swiftness trait.

Virtue changes – YES! This is exactly what I was hoping for. I want to use my virtues more, the virtue changes are an interesting concept that I want to use to the fullest. I think there’s still strides to be made to make them truly advantageous to use (and often enough to matter) but this is a really good step in the right direction.

Spear of Justice – Good changes all-around. Would still like to see the chain last a bit longer though.

Wings of Resolve – Very nice. Getting rid of immob was a fantastic change.

Shield of Courage – Nice changes for sure, but why didn’t this on get a recharge reduction? I mean, its a powerful ability now, but the cooldown is just silly high even for a good skill.

Longbow – Love the changes to Deflecting Shot. And the rest of the changes are solid too (glad you decided not to remove burn on Symbol of Energy, and even buffed it!). Definitely looking forward to giving this weapon another shot during the next BWE.

Traps – I think the cast time reduction will help a lot. Getting the traps down with less downtime in between will make it feel smoother. Disappointed that’s the only change they’re getting as I feel there’s plenty of tweaks and buffs to be made, though.

Piercing Light – I miss the bleed already. Daze is interesting, though.

Hunter’s Determination – I never saw the point of the old trait, so I’m glad its being replaced. New trait is pretty interesting as well, especially when combined with the new Piercing Light (thank god they aren’t in the same tier).

Hunter’s Fortification – The condition heal on block is meh. Dragonhunter doesn’t have much focus on blocking. Less damage aspect is interesting, though.

Zealot’s Aggression – More cripple is nice since its a recurring theme for Dragonhunter and offers a lot of synergy, but why another Justice passive-based trait? I thought with the cooldown changes to virtues you were finally promoting Dragonhunter to use their Virtues rather than just sitting on them for passives, and yet this does the opposite. Why not pulsing cripple for enemies chained by Justice’s active effect instead? Or if that would be too much, then perhaps every 4th hit against an enemy chained by Spear of Justice cripples (basically the same thing as using Justice’s passive, but while encouraging active use)? Something dealing with using Spear of Justice and not sitting on it.

Heavy Light – Still not a fan of passive knockback on auto-attack, but the stability on knockback is neat and will give some synergy with other weapon sets, so that’s really neat.

Overall, pretty happy. Some really nice changes. There’s still more tweaks I’d like to see, but this batch has me excited to try out next BWE for sure.

Hi Karl, good job on the changes they look pretty good and making the specialization actual viable. One concern though and with all respect because I really appreciate your work. I love the combat, but to be honest, traps… won’t have any future for guard maybe only in perception of trolling around… It’s a bit like spirit weapons they are fun but absolutely useless and mechanicly boring. I would rather want to see something else. Maybe Facets like Revenant or new concencrations skills for example Or some survival skills like the ranger i think the last one suits well! Anyway keep up the good worl and have a good think about it!

Sincerely,

Blue [AI] Arc Imperial, WvW guard

My thoughts on the changes:

Virtues
I can live with cast times. Sure, that sucks for Renewed Focus, but if what the Virtues provides is worthwhile then I don’t mind it.

Spear of Justice: This all sounds good to me. I’m happy to see SoJ becoming unblockable. CD reduction is very welcome.

Wings of Resolve: I can’t help but feel like maybe this should also remove cripple? The CD reduction is VERY welcome! I’d still like to possibly see a increase to the range of this skill, however.

Shield of Courage: These changes sound great. Not being able to use this as a legitimate block before was a bit puzzling! That being said, this skill still desperately needs a CD reduction.

Longbow
Yes please, to all of the velocity increases!

Puncture Shot: I still wonder if maybe this is a bit too weak.

True Shot: A damage increase is welcome, but I still feel this skill should be given a knockback function and Heavy Light replaced.

Deflecting Shot: I’m anxious to try this out, but still can’t help but wonder how this skill would perform without the 100% damage increase effect, but with the ability to REFLECT projectiles instead.

Symbol of Energy: Glad to see the return of burns! The fact that the symbol’s base damage will still be increased is very welcome. This looks like it’s shaping up to be a valuable skill.

Traps
I do not agree with those calling for the trashing of Traps and starting over. It is unreasonable to expect that the Devs would or could do such a thing at this point without the profession being put in a much worse position, not to mention the work the audio and visual end of things would require. What we SHOULD be calling for is tweaks and balances to make the traps worthwhile.

Fighting from range is a valuable and advantageous position for the Dragonhunter, as it is with any range-focused profession. Traps don’t represent a paradoxical design, but a method of punishing enemies that seek to close that gap. The new form of Virtues and the Longbow itself may only partially encompass the aggressive nature intended with the Dragonhunter, but let us not forget that even in reality hunting and trapping go hand in hand. Thematically it makes sense and in theory it does as well.

What we really need to see from the Devs is a commitment to balance traps in a manner that makes the rewards they provide justify the difficulties inherent in them. There’s no reason these skills can’t function in a viable manner with the right changes and I for one welcome the idea that perhaps the experience the Devs will gain from working on the Dragonhunter’s Traps might be something that can be used to make them more substantial for Ranger’s and Thieves.

That being said, IF the developers really decided to change the utility classification of these skills, I support the idea of making them ground-targeted Marks. It would make sense, certainly, and thematically would suit the magical nature of the Guardian more than Traps. Honestly, wouldn’t it just make sense for Traps and Marks to be counterparts for non-magical and magical professions, respectively?

Also, reduction of cast time is very welcome and will likely make them more usable.

Purification: Still don’t feel like this is living up to its name or potential. First, it should absolutely cleanse at least 1-3 conditions. Second, how about reducing the base second heal and giving this healing per condition cleansed?

Test of Faith: Again, this Trap is inadequate. It does not provide a strong enough effect and needs an additional effect for enemies or allies inside its area. Right now this is the weakest of the Traps.

Light’s Judgement: I haven’t tested this as much so I won’t comment on it for now.

Procession of Blades: I don’t have much to say about this. It definitely seems to function as intended, but I really agree that at the very least the starting or finishing blow should count as a Whirl finisher.

Fragments of Faith: As I’ve said elsewhere, I actually really love this trap and would be quite happy seeing it left as is. I wouldn’t mind seeing the duration of the Fragments increased just slightly, though.

Dragon’s Maw: I’m perhaps most disappointed in this Trap. Right now it still feels awfully weak. The duration of Slow feels oddly weak to me (at least on paper), especially in comparison to the 4s Slow available to Daredevil’s every 25s. This should either be increased or replaced with another effect. I think the CD is fine right now. I’ve read somewhere that this trap doesn’t effect 5 enemies? I hope this was a mistake, if not than that needs to be rectified or else this Trap will never be worth taking.

I very strongly agree with Nike’s suggestion that Dragon’s Maw should Kill a downed enemy within its radius at the end. This would make the Trap far more useful.

Traits
Traits are coming along slowly, but surely. The changes that have been made are welcome, but there are still a few issues. The increased support for blocks and cripple have increased the potential of the Dragonhunter significantly.

Piercing Light: I’m happy with this rework. As much a Bleeding would have supported Condition builds, it just didn’t make sense. The duration reduction is welcome and seems reasonably balanced to me, assuming Traps will be getting a bit of a buff soon. What I cannot understand, however, is why on earth we’re being given a daze on trap activation instead of a stun? While daze certainly is welcome, stun makes a great deal more sense because of its effect on movement and would go a very long way toward raising the effectiveness of Traps.

Hunter’s Determination: This sounds good to me! I’m very curious about how this will interact with Retaliatory Subconscious.

Hunter’s Fortification: This is the skill that made me go from hating Dragonhunter to believing it could actually be quite usable! Condition removal on block is a fantastic idea and synergizes so well with core Guardian. The choice to change the additional effect to a damage reduction also feels more in line with the nature of this skill.

It seems the intention of this skill is to provide additional defensive layers against both power and condition builds. Given the high condition removal potential of the entire profession, I think those who keep saying this effect will never be active are maybe overreacting a little. (Aegis doesn’t exactly stay on through the entirety of a fight and Unscathed Contender still has its place.) It will certainly be inactive often, but the strength of the damage reduction could compensate for that. If it turns out to be something like 5% damage reduction than yes, for the amount of time it will be down it’s garbage.

Dulled Senses: This seems fine to me. I feel like I need to test it to really be sure, but I like the direction this is going in.

Zealot’s Aggression: Same as with Dulled Senses, I like this direction but need to test this change to see how it actually feels in practice.

Heavy Light: Nope, still don’t like it. My least favorite aspect of the Dragonhunter is passive knockback. I don’t like the idea of accidentally saving my enemy from Procession of Blades or another trap. Sure, this might work alright with Test of Faith or a fire field, but overall I just don’t like this trait.

How about a knockback effect on True Shot instead?

Perhaps this could be replaced with a trait that makes True Shot a manipulative skill that taunts beyond 600 range and does a knockback within 600? I could see having a short taunt being very very useful for luring enemies into your Traps. That would begin to address many concerns!

Anywho, that’s what I’m thinking right now. I think we’re starting to near the point where extremely dramatic changes aren’t necessary. Smart moderate and small changes are still certainly needed, however. Traps do still need some serious love!

If warrior and thief can have new F2 why guardian can’t have F4 with 25% passive movement skill and active something else?

Traps could provide a flip skill that is a 400-600 ranged shadowstep targetable or backwards, could have kitten iced to prevent spamming. Would allow the guard to kite with traps AND longbow equipped at the same time. I would change one of the traits to said effect to avoid other trapping classes crying over it.

Repeating myself, but have a trait that grants movement speed and make traps ground targetable. Otherwise, meh on both the traits and traps in general.

Hi Karl,

My one problem with the changes is to the trait, piercing light because you took off the fact that trap bleeds foes which had great synergy and gave traps great to use. I do like the daze part but just put that traps bleed so that DH could actually have a condi build

as posted above, traps in theory make perfect sense w/ longbow as a means to punish gap closers.

that said, the trap has to be punishing, so replacing bleed on trait, w/ daze, stinks. if you are going to kill condi traps, at least replace the bleeds w/ an immobilize or stun, so we can keep the enemy in the trap longer.

otherwise, i like most of the changes/reworks for this upcoming beta.

Everything is looking fantastic! DH is almost perfect, except for the obvious (traps).

Just spit balling here, but how bout this possible way to make traps more interesting:

Give Spear of Justice a second active. Once linked with someone after a certain time, the Dragonhunter can activate spear again and pull the enemy in closer: thus activating any traps that he has set (and he could switch to his sword or mace and start beating a way at them).

or

I really like the idea that someone had of, if you hold a longbow, you can fire your traps through ground targeting. This would root with a cast time but you but give you a way of setting up the battle field nicely from a distance (you could maybe even give this to Staff and Scepter, taking into account their attack range). Otherwise you’d set them on the ground at your feet with no cast time.

Ragnarox.9601:

If warrior and thief can have new F2 why guardian can’t have F4 with 25% passive movement skill and active something else?

It’s baffling. Between Longbow and having to kite people into traps, it makes absolutely no sense that Dragonhunter doesn’t have access to a 25% movement speed increase.

Hm … interesting changes. Let’s have a look at my personal expectations …

Spear of Justice:
Increased missile velocity by 100%.
Reduced the casting speed from 3/4 second to 1/4 second.
Reduced recharge from 25 to 20.

Expectations: none

Wings of Resolve:
This ability now removes Immobilize at the beginning.
Cooldown has been reduced from 50 seconds to 30.

Expectations: Rework trait Soaring devastations and make Wings of Resolve to be blast finisher. Increase landing damage by 30-40%.

Shield of Courage:
Reduced the cast to 0.25 seconds.
This ability now blocks all attacks from the front.

Expectations: none

Puncture Shot:
Increased missile velocity by 66%

Expectations: none

True Shot:
Damage increased by 12.5%

Expectations: increase damage by 20-30%

Deflecting Shot:
Reduced missile velocity by 25%.
Increased base damage by 13%.
Destroying a projectile with this ability increases the damage it deals by 100%.
Increased the blocking radius by 33%.

Expectations: none

Symbol of Energy:
Increased missile velocity by 60%.
Increased symbol damage by 10%.

Expectations: increase damage by 20-30%

Traps:
Reduced the cast time of all traps to 1/2 second, down from 1 second.

Expectations: Reduced casttine atlist from 1 to 0.5 sec (hey, do they realy read my minds ) but they didn’t made Traps as Light fields. You’re creating a new specializtions, c’mon make it unic!

Piercing Light:
While activating, traps will now daze enemies in the radius for 1 second.
Trap recharges are reduced by 20%.

Expectations: Change conditions from Bleeding to Fire (we’re guardians after all and mostly depends on fire damage)

Hunter’s Determination:
This trait has been reworked to apply aegis to the guardian and drop a Fragments of Faith trap at their location when controlled.

Expectations: added 3sec of fire damage to damaged enemies.

Hunter’s Fortification:
This trait has been reworked to remove conditions when blocking attacks.
In addition, receive less damage when you have no conditions on you.

Expectations: add 2 stacks of might on virtues activating and reduce virtues recharge by 1 sec for every ally affected by virtues.

Dulled Senses:
Enemies you knock back are crippled.
Enemies you cripple are also inflicted with vulnerability.

Expectations: none

Zealot’s Aggression:
This trait now allows Justice’s passive effect to cripple.
In addition to dealing extra damage to crippled enemies.

Expectations: none

Heavy Light:
Longbow arrows knock back when enemies are within the range threshold.
Gain stability when you knock an enemy back.

Expectations: added reduce Longbow skills by 20%. (it’s grandmaster trait after all)

Isarii.2804:

It’s baffling. Between Longbow and having to kite people into traps, it makes absolutely no sense that Dragonhunter doesn’t have access to a 25% movement speed increase.

It’s less baffling when you keep in mind all the cripple the DH is doing.
x1 speed vs x.5 beats x1.25 speed vs. x1.

This is a step in the right direction Karl. I like these new changes a lot. The fact that you can see a distinction between a trap specialist and a LB specialist in the traits now is a good thing.

I also like how you gave us condi folk our burns back on SoE. And finally SoE can be targeted behind us! Love it!! I still miss those bleeds though from the old Piercing of Light. I will have to test a few condi builds to see if they are viable now with DH in the next BWE.

True Shot: Damage increased by 12.5%. I like! This is the go to dps skill and can’t wait to try it out again. I also like the root and cast time. Don’t change a thing as it has a good feel to it, allows counter play and it stays true to it’s GW1 roots.

I agree with Nike and others that traps need a little more to them. I actually like them NOT being ground targeted. Maintains the feel of a trapper being unique and plays into the ambush style of play. Once you can start throwing traps you might as well just make them symbols which we already have and it takes away the skill required to kite and bait.

Looking forward to trying these changes out in the next BWE! Keep up the good work Karl.

xinkspillx.3914:

True Shot: A damage increase is welcome, but I still feel this skill should be given a knockback function and Heavy Light replaced.

I agree with most of what you suggested in your post as you had some good ideas but this right here is just pure madness. You want a knockback tied to the DH’s best dps skill? Think this through man! DH’s would be hated in all of the PvE things!

I’m going to hold the majority of my comments until DH is played in the next BWE3 weekend.

I do agree that ALL Traps should receive a ranged throw effect. That includes Rangers and Thieves. Surely, these classes have gotten together to evolve their traps to do so! ;)

Getting the Dragonhunter into a good/competitive place also benefits from a little housekeeping in the Guardian’s core weapons, traits, and utility skills:

SHIELD
The Shield should actually be a pretty good weapon choice for a rear-line support spec. You’re in the right place to apply the forward cone effects to allies and the knockback can be used to actively shove enemies into a waiting trap or hem in their options for getting out of one.

• Shield of Judgement. Increase the range to 900 (up from 600; see the Herald’s Envoy of Exuberance shield skill for comparison). This will make it much easier to use the weapon to support from the rear line and to qualify for Pure of Sight’s damage bonus.
• Shield of Absorption. Increase the knockback, heal radius, and FX of the dome to 400 (up from 320) & make the dome impenetrable to dodge rolling. This will make the skill slightly easier to use, more significant for chokepoint control, and always knock targets back far enough that they trigger the Pure of Sight bonus.

In the same vein, the ‘shield trait’ Stalwart Defender either needs to be combined with Strength in Numbers (new trait always grants 150 Toughness to you and 4 allies + you gain +20% shield cooldown) OR add “Using a shield skill gives you Aegis for 8 seconds.”

SPIRIT WEAPONS
This line of utility skills should mesh beautifully with longbow gameplay but has been plagued with problems for a while now (since they became vulnerable to destruction, really). The enduring popularity of Warrior banners should tell you how important having these not die from boss AoE was to their previous desirability.

• All spirit weapons. Skills gain the “Minion” classification. Sprit weapons have no maximum duration and persist until destroyed. Summoning the weapon sets the skill to its flip/command mode. Skill goes on cooldown with the weapon is destroyed. Review the HP & Toughness-per-Level curves of these summons as they are extremely powerful at low levels (mid-20’s) and excessively fragile at Level 80.

SUPER-SPEED
This effect becomes available to Dragonhunters through the class-friendly Superior Runes of the Trapper. It needs to WORK. Presently its effects are capped so that it’s no more effective than normal swiftness. Alternatively the 4 piece set bonus of the runes needs to be changed to something that doesn’t rely on a broken effect.

With a few small corrections the competitive build diversity of the Dragonhunter goes way up. Please Spend the time to make these adjustments to the core profession and bring the Dragonhunter to a good place at launch!

Thanks!

don´t have much to say about the traits and virtues ( i have the same opinion about them like 90% here ). When it comes to the longbow… my suggestion is to make skill 2 VERY powerfull ( maybe sth like killshot ) at the same time when casting it, it will apply vulnerability to the guard. So we are taking a rist of casting this skill but if it hits it should do really high dmg or sth wich is rewarding the cast time.

I enjoyed the traps and i´m happy they increased the casting speed and switched the bleeding to daze ( bleeding is like the weakest condition in game and the guard has no other releationship to bleeding at all. We don´t have any other benefit when we apply bleeding to the enemy, burn, cripple, blind, immobilize gives us things like increased dmg or increased Precision).
The big problem with the traps is the lack of healing/ condi remove / stun break. You can be the hell of a dmg canon with the traps but after u used them and one enemy survived you have a big kitten problem…
it would be cool to have grandmaster trait that gives us boons / healing or sth like that when traps are hitting.

All this trap hate…

The game is releasing in a month, a week, and a day. This is not enough time to replace the traps with something different even if they wanted to.

And as for wanting to: It’s fairly clear that dragonhunter is guardian/ranger, likely intended at least in part as something for people who like ranger gameplay but don’t want a pet. Guardian utilities already have many of the functionalities of non-pet-based ranger utilities, with traps being the ranger functionality that guardians don’t have, so that’s what the dragonhunter gets.

If you don’t like the traps, there’s nothing forcing you to use them. Guardian has plenty of other utilities to choose from even if you choose to go dragonhunter, and vanilla guardian is still an option.

I can understand that for many guardian players, it’s disappointing that the elite specialisation they get is essentially a secondary profession rather than a direct expansion of the core guardian playstyle, like chronomancer is an expansion of the mesmer playstyle. I was disappointed too, until I recognised that what we have is in fact a secondary profession.

Personally, I’d rather look forward to a future elite specialisation that is more to our tastes than to gripe about the one that’s been designed. If you really hate the idea of traps that you feel you’ll never ever use them, this may not be the specialisation for you… but other people will enjoy it. The next one may be what you’re waiting for.

draxynnic.3719:

All this trap hate…

The game is releasing in a month, a week, and a day. This is not enough time to replace the traps with something different even if they wanted to.

And as for wanting to: It’s fairly clear that dragonhunter is guardian/ranger, likely intended at least in part as something for people who like ranger gameplay but don’t want a pet. Guardian utilities already have many of the functionalities of non-pet-based ranger utilities, with traps being the ranger functionality that guardians don’t have, so that’s what the dragonhunter gets.

If you don’t like the traps, there’s nothing forcing you to use them. Guardian has plenty of other utilities to choose from even if you choose to go dragonhunter, and vanilla guardian is still an option.

I can understand that for many guardian players, it’s disappointing that the elite specialisation they get is essentially a secondary profession rather than a direct expansion of the core guardian playstyle, like chronomancer is an expansion of the mesmer playstyle. I was disappointed too, until I recognised that what we have is in fact a secondary profession.

Personally, I’d rather look forward to a future elite specialisation that is more to our tastes than to gripe about the one that’s been designed. If you really hate the idea of traps that you feel you’ll never ever use them, this may not be the specialisation for you… but other people will enjoy it. The next one may be what you’re waiting for.

Hi sorry for focusing on you, but I have been replying elsewhere to these kinds of rationalisations and would like to post it here for those that hold this opinion, perhaps devs too:

Rangers already have a lot of tools for max range, traps are their powerful melee option. Guardians have NO ranged tools(weapons or utilities) and the longbow currently is not much better than the pixey stick, we need ranged traps to be our ranged utilities.

And there is no point in suggesting we wait for next elite to get ranged utilities because then we can’t equip both elites to wield longbow and those ranged utilities. I doubt we are going to get shortbow.

This is our only chance to get a good ranged spec, so otherwise everyone will re roll revenant if they are tired of melee guard.

To return to the main point you bring up the development time problem and I have tried to address that in my suggestion I will quote below. We have the tech to have ranged traps, effectively just marks (just add a deployment delay) or using the old ranger tech, and we have the animation from longbow 4. There should not be that much dev time, I mean if they can change displace to knock backs on revenant there should be no issue with this.

Arutha.9874:

[…]
Longbow skills and traits like deal more damage when further than 600 range, are not mixing well with physical damage traps at short range. Guardians did not just lack a long range weapon we lacked ability to compete at long range with utilities too.
[…]
Give guardian a unique interaction with traps:
Grandmaster trait: If you have a longbow equipped your trap skills become 1,200 range.
This lets us use traps from 600+ range by using animation similar to skill 4 of longbow.

Now this feels different from other professions like ranger and thief as you might see dragon hunters on the top of WvW keep walls shooting down multiple traps and symbols. One screenshot of this and I think guardians will actually play dragon hunter at launch as right now it seems base guardian or revenant just feel much more epic.
That is what we Guardians always want to feel like, the leaders in attack or defence.

kinda disappointed that we see so few changes here, since this is by far the weakest elite..

here or my 2 cents on weapons, traps and traits:

Weapon: Longbow

-Puncture shot : increase the damage by at least 25%, it feels like ranger shortbow right now

-True shot: either make it so you can move while casting or keep it as it is but increase the damage by 40-50%, yes, that may seem alot, but to keep up with similiar skills the damage is really low right now.. and a damage buff to 1,119 up from 746 isnt even that much when you look at some ranger, warrior or even guard GS skills

-deflecting shot: I like the changes here, but it really doesnt need the skillshot factor, as you will always want to shot at the enemy you are focusing

Symbol of energy: like the changes

Hunters ward: increase initial impact damage by 100%, needs bug fixing as enemys tend to ignore the ring..

Summary: the Longbow really should be about longrange DPS either through direct damage or conditions (but more so about direct damage).. and it should really feel like it and be rewarding to play.. right now you get MUCH more range dps with a scepter.. this weapon is a freakin Longbow, the deadliest range weapon humanity has ever made.. it should feel powerful in the hands of a heavy armored strong soldier.. and it should feel like you could actually kill a dragon with this thing.. right now you can barely kill a lizard with a Longbow..

Traps
ok here me out here.. the indivudual traps the DH offers are not that great on their own.. but they really shine if used together.. I like the idea of “troll” guardian who can dish out heavy amounts of damage to an unsuspected foe.

to achieve this we should first make all the traps have the same cooldown.
I would suggest 35 or even 40 seconds here, this would result in an overall longer cooldown for the whole combo but the result will be more devastating. the Elite trap Dragon’s Maw should always have double the cooldown of other traps, so you can use it every other cycle

Second we need to increase the damage of the traps by a bit so we cann feel the payout..
-Fragments of Faith should have its damage increased by 20%
-Test of Faith should have its damage increased by 10%
-Procession of Blades damage is fine
-Dragon’s Maw should have its damage increased by 25%
-Light’s Judgement should either apply 20 stack of vul for 2 sec every pulse or apply 10 stacks of vul for 3 sec every pulse.. so you would even consider using this..

And last but not least a trait to go along with traps and also give a unique feels to the DH trap playstyle

New Trait (this could be worked into the “Pure of Sight” minor)
If you are out of combat you become invisible after 3 seconds if standing still
or (this could be worked into the “Pircing Light”)
If you have a Trap set you become invisible after 3 seconds if standing still

Summary: this would make it so you can set up a trap and stealth and wait for your prey to walk into your trap and then follow it up with a rain of arrows, NOW THIS would make for a new and fun playstyle!

other traits
Piercing light: I think this should apply 3 sec of burning if anything.
New Trait: throwable traps with 900 range

thats all I can think of right now

Arutha your utter hyperbole about the Longbow isn’t helpful.

The Longbow is a viable ranged weapon that needs only a few tweaks, if you could literally do nothing with it during the beta weekends then might I suggest that perhaps the weapon isn’t as much of a problem as the user.

The Longbow and Traps fit a different playstyle, learn to adapt or stick to what works for you, the Elite specs are not meant to mesh with everything, they are meant to offer a totally different playstyle to the base profession.

Assic.2746:

Both traits should proc at the same time. The idea is that when you take Hunter’s Determination you take it instead of Retaliatory Subconscious. Isn’t it better to pick Hunter’s Determination + Unscathed Contender (+20% more dmg while under the effect of Aegis)?

You are right, Unscathed Contender would give an easy + 30% damage increase together with Pure of Sight (+10% when enemy outside of range treshold) Not complaining, other damage modifiers also exist in both of those trait lines

Ezrael.6859:

Arutha your utter hyperbole about the Longbow isn’t helpful.

The Longbow is a viable ranged weapon that needs only a few tweaks, if you could literally do nothing with it during the beta weekends then might I suggest that perhaps the weapon isn’t as much of a problem as the user.

The Longbow and Traps fit a different playstyle, learn to adapt or stick to what works for you, the Elite specs are not meant to mesh with everything, they are meant to offer a totally different playstyle to the base profession.

Alright I will remove that part from my previous post perhaps it was just me, I agree that 1 and 2 are alright but so were sceptre ones. I was more pointing out that the utility longbow skills didn’t have a precise place, 4 buffs or condis more than attacks and 5 immobilises but why? Nothing to synergies with except traps which are Melee but then no damage bonus and why longbow… Looping logic from here.
You will notice I did not suggest buffing damage on any skills in any way I suggest making bow 4 and 5 work better with traps else I have no damaging way to use them.

I however do not agree with you that we should accept “they are for different play styles.”
These are elite specs, you will only ever get to have one equipped, so if we do not get ranged utilities we will never get a way to play full ranged.
And yes they are meant to “add a totally different play style” and the style they promised was ranged Specialization(master of that aspect of play) and you suggest we play melee with traps or ranged with shouts, which are both not optimised (specialised).

PS. “Lack of umpf” is a hyperbole?? I am actually suggesting that longbow needs no more tweaks it just needs synergy with at least 1 utility type that we have.

Nike.2631:

Getting the Dragonhunter into a good/competitive place also benefits from a little housekeeping in the Guardian’s core weapons, traits, and utility skills:

SHIELD
The Shield should actually be a pretty good weapon choice for a rear-line support spec. You’re in the right place to apply the forward cone effects to allies and the knockback can be used to actively shove enemies into a waiting trap or hem in their options for getting out of one.

• Shield of Judgement. Increase the range to 900 (up from 600; see the Herald’s Envoy of Exuberance shield skill for comparison). This will make it much easier to use the weapon to support from the rear line and to qualify for Pure of Sight’s damage bonus.
• Shield of Absorption. Increase the knockback, heal radius, and FX of the dome to 400 (up from 320) & make the dome impenetrable to dodge rolling. This will make the skill slightly easier to use, more significant for chokepoint control, and always knock targets back far enough that they trigger the Pure of Sight bonus.

In the same vein, the ‘shield trait’ Stalwart Defender either needs to be combined with Strength in Numbers (new trait always grants 150 Toughness to you and 4 allies + you gain +20% shield cooldown) OR add “Using a shield skill gives you Aegis for 8 seconds.”

SPIRIT WEAPONS
This line of utility skills should mesh beautifully with longbow gameplay but has been plagued with problems for a while now (since they became vulnerable to destruction, really). The enduring popularity of Warrior banners should tell you how important having these not die from boss AoE was to their previous desirability.

• All spirit weapons. Skills gain the “Minion” classification. Sprit weapons have no maximum duration and persist until destroyed. Summoning the weapon sets the skill to its flip/command mode. Skill goes on cooldown with the weapon is destroyed. Review the HP & Toughness-per-Level curves of these summons as they are extremely powerful at low levels (mid-20’s) and excessively fragile at Level 80.

SUPER-SPEED
This effect becomes available to Dragonhunters through the class-friendly Superior Runes of the Trapper. It needs to WORK. Presently its effects are capped so that it’s no more effective than normal swiftness. Alternatively the 4 piece set bonus of the runes needs to be changed to something that doesn’t rely on a broken effect.

With a few small corrections the competitive build diversity of the Dragonhunter goes way up. Please Spend the time to make these adjustments to the core profession and bring the Dragonhunter to a good place at launch!

Thanks!

Quoting this because it has some fantastic suggestions that can help the Guardian mesh with the Dragonhunter better.

Nike.2631:

This line of utility skills should mesh beautifully with longbow gameplay but has been plagued with problems for a while now (since they became vulnerable to destruction, really). The enduring popularity of Warrior banners should tell you how important having these not die from boss AoE was to their previous desirability.

• All spirit weapons. Skills gain the “Minion” classification. Sprit weapons have no maximum duration and persist until destroyed. Summoning the weapon sets the skill to its flip/command mode. Skill goes on cooldown with the weapon is destroyed. Review the HP & Toughness-per-Level curves of these summons as they are extremely powerful at low levels (mid-20’s) and excessively fragile at Level 80.

I was going to wait till after HoT hoping we could have a thread about this kind of suggestions but here is my way of fixing spirit weapons:

Get a new mechanic worked out that states that spirit weapons(traited or passively) are only hit by aoes and other abilities if they are the primary target of skills. This makes them immune to boss damage and raises the skill cap in PvP where you have to actively target the spirit weapon to kill it.
Imo only these minions and new scrapper drones require this kind of buff as the others are already meat shieldy.

This is a beta testing for dragonhunter thread. Please keep non related spirit weapon shield fixed in their own topics.

I think the biggest and best thing to make traps work for Dragonhunter, is to simply give them the ability to be ground targeted, either as a trait, or to begin with. They are essentially traps made of light and magic, not like the physical ones that the Ranger and Theif use, so its perfectly possible.

Make traps ground targetted!

Gwaihir.1745:

This is a beta testing for dragonhunter thread. Please keep non related spirit weapon shield fixed in their own topics.

You think Dragonhunters won’t be using shields and spirit weapons? Spirit weapons are amongst the most synergistic damage-added options available to Dragonhunters wielding their signature longbow. Adjusting their up-time will ABSOLUTELY impact Dragonhunter competitiveness.

Each of these changes are tiny, focused on how the Dragonhunter uses those tools rather than how the base profession would (namely from range), and Guardians don’t even get super-speed so any mention of it can only be in reference to Dragonhunters.

I’m glad with the changes.
Actually the only thing that really bothered me when playing was the cast time of traps… and a bit the velocity of the bow.
Now that it’s been adressed, I think the dragonhunter can become very untertaining to me.

But I kind of understand people maining guardians not being very thrilled with the spec.
Basically, this specialization is like using another class.
I enjoy the dragonhunter because my main character is a thief and I like to make use of my traps.
The dragon hunter is the one specialization that is really attracting to people not used to the guardian mechanism.

Some thematic changes that could work for the dragon hunter (and help it become a more condition oriented spec) would be to have every attack of the DH cause bleeding after SoJ is activated. Because bleeding isn’t as powerful as burning this wouldn’t be too OP and would be turned off when the virtue recharges.

Also WoR passive should have a 25% movement speed boost. Lastly maybe you guys could consider taking 5 seconds off SoJ cd and 15 seconds off the SoC cd.

These changes only confirm my suspicions; DH is a ranged spec and it’s intent is to enhance that kind of play. So many comments would not exist here if people could wrap their heads around that fact.