Guild Wars 2

Gods. I havn’t scene this much mindlessness and crying in a forum for a long time. No wonder anet goes long period of times without posting. I can’t blame them anymore.

My thoughts on the matter.

The dragonhunter as a playstyle seems to be fairly stable. It has a clear goal and goes a long way towards meeting it. I like the design and I know ill be playing it in PvP.

Longbow skills seem fine to me. The symbol shot being fireable behind you is good enough as a deterent to peel something off your back. The symbol itself is really easy to trait into as well as there are certain traits that are mandatory for a zerk/burn/bunker guardian that simply won’t be as needed on a dragonhunter. The entire virtues line for one.

With the stand and fire nature of it it seems like its meant to be a risk/reward weapon where you need to understand the situation well to know what to use at what times. Im perfectly fine with that as the guardian actually lacks a weapon of this style. As long as the damage is worth the risk on the skills that ARE risky. (It seems like your pushing to make sure it is)

On traps there aren’t a terrible many changes id make. I like the concept of the traps and feel that as long as each one does what it is supposed to do then itl be fine.

What changes I would make though are as follows:

Light’s Judgement: I would actually give this a similar functionality to shadowtrap on the thief. Where the dragonhunter will be able to teleport to the aoe site. (Only while the trap is active) with a one second cast time on the teleport. This will make it useful as a method of convincing a target to back off. (This trap just triggered. There might be a kittened off guy coming through in a second)

Test of faith. I feel that this skill should be undodgeable and unblockable. It should do what it says. Punish people for crossing it. Similar to how attemtping to dodge roll over a line of warding will knock you down anyway this should apply its damage effect anyway. So they have to stop and consider for a second instead of lol rolling through and ignoring it.

Procession of blades. This trap I have mixed feelings on. On one hand it could work well with supreme justice/permeating wrath combo. On the other its not that great for a power based build. The damage it actually does in combat is fairly minimal and its threat is easily negated by protection.

Fragments of Faith. As this is the defensive oriented trap I would actually give this trap half a second of float so it can act as an interrupt as it is its primary method of protecting you actually runs the risk of distracting you mid fight. (oh god wheres the aegis shards I just put out ah kitten that necro over there just cast a signet on me)

Purification. As strange as this may sound I would push to have purification have a boon strip affect instead of blind. So that it removes 3-4 boons on the enemy that triggers it. That way it feels like a trap for the enemy as well as a heal for the guardian. Traps should be punishing to stand in. And if the guardian is popping his heal odds are you already have the advantage. Having your character reduced to your base mid fight though actually gives the opposing dragonhunter a chance to regain the upper hand.

Dragons Maw Im actually completely okay with. This is a pretty strong CC elite on a rather short cooldown that does a good job of punishing people that get caught in it. No problems here.

Shadelang.3012:

• Light’s Judgment. I would actually give this a similar functionality to shadowtrap on the thief. Where the dragonhunter will be able to teleport to the aoe site. (Only while the trap is active) with a one second cast time on the teleport. This will make it useful as a method of convincing a target to back off. (This trap just triggered. There might be a kittened off guy coming through in a second)

• Test of faith. I feel that this skill should be undodgeable and unblockable. It should do what it says. Punish people for crossing it. Similar to how attemtping to dodge roll over a line of warding will knock you down anyway this should apply its damage effect anyway. So they have to stop and consider for a second instead of lol rolling through and ignoring it.

• Procession of blades. This trap I have mixed feelings on. On one hand it could work well with supreme justice/permeating wrath combo. On the other its not that great for a power based build. The damage it actually does in combat is fairly minimal and its threat is easily negated by protection.

• Fragments of Faith. As this is the defensive oriented trap I would actually give this trap half a second of float so it can act as an interrupt as it is its primary method of protecting you actually runs the risk of distracting you mid fight. (oh god wheres the aegis shards I just put out ah kitten that necro over there just cast a signet on me)

• Purification. As strange as this may sound I would push to have purification have a boon strip affect instead of blind. So that it removes 3-4 boons on the enemy that triggers it. That way it feels like a trap for the enemy as well as a heal for the guardian. Traps should be punishing to stand in. And if the guardian is popping his heal odds are you already have the advantage. Having your character reduced to your base mid fight though actually gives the opposing dragonhunter a chance to regain the upper hand.

• Dragon’s Maw. Im actually completely okay with. This is a pretty strong CC elite on a rather short cooldown that does a good job of punishing people that get caught in it. No problems here.

Not the changes I would suggest, but some interesting stuff here.

One of the most strident complaints I’ve seen about traps is that if someone Dodge-rolls over it, the trap is destroyed (sorry, haven’t personally confirmed this behavior). IF that is true, all traps for all professions need to be altered so that they still go off if blocked or evaded, but the blocking/rolling person avoids the consequences for the duration of the block/evade effect rather than the trap fizzling into the ether.

The longbow is shaping up. I can see it becoming a weapon where it’s not you trying to get close to me, more you trying to get as far away as possible when I lock.
What’s left: —- Longbow auto target needs to snap to target on fire, 3/4 sec cast time is enough to get an enemy behind you and when fired it need to turn and fire towards the target.
—- I would reduce the root on true shot to .5s or make it only slow you down similar to whirling wrath.
—- Will await further trap dev changes, as someone said above test of faith should force them to walk through the barrier not rofldodge it, taking multiple hits on the way out. A pulse burning in the center would be a good motivation for them to get out.

Isarii.2804:

Gwaihir.1745:

Yes traps still need a major overhaul.
And the other thing needing work is the lb autos track. Thieves already do that. Crippling only on 2 targets is generally useless. If only 1 target is struck should grant a boon to the guard, both effects for 2 or more targets.
Other than that allowing for directional backwards casting is the last remaining.
If those get fixed I will be in full support of playing a viable wvw dragon hunter.

I really would have preferred seeing the ‘magic’ archer getting an auto-attack more similar to the Elementalist Fire Staff’s than just copy pasting the Thief’s shortbow, personally.

you know what, I agree with this.

Karl McLain.5604:

Additions to the initial notes:

Puncture Shot: Increased damage by 10%.
True Shot: Increased damage by 25% (instead of the 12% increase we had indicated) note: The overall damage potential of the ability wasn’t quite up to where we wanted to test it at, so here we are!
Wings of Courage: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

-Karl

Thanks for the update, Karl! I’d also love to hear how traps are progressing and if there’s been any consideration of reworking/replacing the Minor traits (Defender’s Dogma and Pure of Sight) for greater synergy, as has been repeatedly suggested.

Also, re: Puncture Shot — more damage is great, and we did need it, but could we please see somewhat of a rework of the graphic FX and functionality of this skill? Right now it feels more like I’m showing off my shortbow trick skillz on some cans with a kids’ arrow than like I’m firing a mighty javelin of light to cripple the largest and most powerful monsters yet to appear on Tyria. Let Thieves keep their Trick Shot; it fits them. Could we please have something that fits us?

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

Yaaaaaay!

Now. Traps. Spill it.

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

My faith in karl has been restored

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

Karl, please bring us some news about ground target traps please, this change will improve a lot the gameplay with Longbow + Traps

SkraM.8794:

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

Karl, please bring us some news about ground target traps please, this change will improve a lot the gameplay with Longbow + Traps

although I agree traps across the board need improvements to make them worthwhile over other aoe abilities “symbols, consecrations,wells etc” I am totally against ground targeting. with that they’ll feel too similar to other abilities, and I hate ground targeting in general.

SkraM.8794:

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

Karl, please bring us some news about ground target traps please, this change will improve a lot the gameplay with Longbow + Traps

When they took ground targeted traps away from rangers they did so because they said they felt too much like grenades.
In the remote chance they did give them to guardians they would be faced with such a b!%ch fit from thieves and rangers they would likely need to give them ground targeting as well.

Even then several of the traps would not be worth using on guardian.

A much better solution would be to look at each trap individually and give it one or more of the following

1: Utility effects (condi removal, boon removal etc…)
2: Boon support
3: Conditions
4 Combo fields.

awesome change
i love the new range.
to the people saying 1200 is needed, i have to disagree. we dont need to buff everything into oblivion. Same goes for True shot. Its ok to be stuck in place if the dmg is right—> risk/reward gameplay

2 things i still like to change:
-Traps being ground target
-let us shoot deflecting shot behind us (like the symbol)

other than that it kinda looks good right now. have to test it next beta to see how it really works out

Karl McLain.5604:

Wings of Resolve: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

I have been campaigning for this ever since the reveal, so to see it actually happens makes me very happy. Thank you so much for testing and deciding to go with it, Karl!

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

Glad to hear it! The last post about increase to Wings of Resolve’s range and the damages buffs for Longbow are very welcome.

That being said, I do agree Traps need some work. I think suggesting replacing them is foolish, but right now they are still not worth taking. Ideally I would just like to see Traps have better/more utility effects. Procession of Blades is also still too weak. Purification is likely to just get us killed and is practically useless without a Condi removal. The only Trap that is currently worth taking is Fragments of Faith (which I actually really love).

Alternatively, if ground-targeting is really being considered, please just change them to Marks instead of Traps. A. That would reduce the likelihood of Rangers and Thieves crying foul and B. it would make far more sense for a magic fueled class like the Guardian. Problem solved. Sure Runes of the Trapper wouldn’t work anymore, but stealth doesn’t suit a Guardian in the first place . . .

Oh and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE reduce the CD of Shield of Courage. This skill is NOT powerful enough to warrant such a high CD when compared to the others.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Karl McLain.5604:

Wings of Resolve: Increased leap distance to 800, up from 600. note: This has been in discussion for a bit. Now’s a good time to check it out, being as there’s a lot of conversation on it here already.

I have been campaigning for this ever since the reveal, so to see it actually happens makes me very happy. Thank you so much for testing and deciding to go with it, Karl!

Grats. Where you pushing for longer range in general or 800 as a specific milestone? If so, what happens at 800 that’s gonna make this a cool new bit of gameplay for Dragonhunters?

I always felt that, in pvp at least, the point of traps was to make the enemy think twice about getting in melee range or trying to cap a point. Initially, when the class was revealed, traps seemed devastating, but since then they seem to have been nerfed.

Word of advice, avoid reddit, so many destructive comments from players deliberately trying to derail the discussion.

The range increase on Wings is nice, but Traps still need an urgent redesign.

I think it is time to make them Marks with an optional Grand Master trait that makes them invisible to enemies.

with all my hours on the dragonhunter and temptest (probably the 2 most underwhelming elite specs) i’ve been trying to think mostly about the dragonhunter’s role in combat. every elite spec seems to fit control, support, and damage, i see that dragonhunter is being pushed into the control side of the spectrum. That’s not really a bad thing, ranged control can be powerful and great in the right build and in the right hands.

the bit thats confusing to me is some of the traps we’ve received are not that great at control (if that is this specializations true nature). we seem to not have great access to control conditions either. we have cripple and a “cage” but thats only 2 skills out of the 5 on the long bow, the others are damage, support and damaging support. the traps dont really benefit too much in the heat of combat since we will be spotted trying to set them into the ground.

I’m just very confused as to how this spec is supposed to come together and work, our most valued lines and traits have been merged or gutted, and most of our utilities are kind of… poorly optimized would be the nicest way to put it.

Overall the dragonhunter line is very self limiting since we are reliant in groups as the main condition removers, partial healers, and tanks. i was truly hoping that we would be able to break from the shout meta for guards which has plagued us for so long in most game modes. will this be another 3 years of my main class being reduced to playing shouts everywhere forever?

the only thing i’d like to see fixed at the very least is the trait line that gives us some synergy in condition removal or healing so that i have a reason to use a trap or the bow as opposed to staff/GS or Staff/hammer and shouts. if the traits were more in line with the way Virtues kinda handles them it would be nice. i just hope by release this is taken care of and we have something we can see as worthwhile for another play style.

I know it was given up on a long time ago, but still the most limiting thing of Dragon Hunter is that trait mechanics did not stack into the new f1 f2 and f3 abilities. That wrecks so many things and I HATE that we spend more time arguing about traps when the fact of the matter is that Guardian has some great utility abilities already. In PVE I could see use of them being important in certain situations, that doesn’t make them bad. In PVP I’d like to try some out and honestly they could potentially merit two places on my skill bar.

Seriously though, TRAITS NEED TO CROSS INTO THE ELITE SPEC. Please consider this. My Sovereign Longbow is ready to rock, but I want my newfound abilities to be as versatile as those old ones. Otherwise, give the option to switch out of combat between the two types.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

SkraM.8794:

Karl McLain.5604:

Oh yeah, I should mention that the auto-targeting stuff has been fixed. We were testing out some new tech with it, but have since pulled that as it wouldn’t allow your character to auto-turn toward your target if they’re behind you. Tech did its job too well.

Karl, please bring us some news about ground target traps please, this change will improve a lot the gameplay with Longbow + Traps

When they took ground targeted traps away from rangers they did so because they said they felt too much like grenades.
In the remote chance they did give them to guardians they would be faced with such a b!%ch fit from thieves and rangers they would likely need to give them ground targeting as well.

Even then several of the traps would not be worth using on guardian.

A much better solution would be to look at each trap individually and give it one or more of the following

1: Utility effects (condi removal, boon removal etc…)
2: Boon support
3: Conditions
4 Combo fields.

Hi I would say that on a ranger with a giant longbow, short bow and many options for ranged damage, yes adding grenades is a bit over the top.
But to a crippled completely melee profession like guardian we need some kind of ranged utility, change traps to grenade type if that is “more true to life” but we need some kind of ranged utility to synergies with LB4 and 5.
Again if there are complaints answer with “you have utilities that work at range, we do not besides a single condi one”

It could be good if grandmaster trait have…

…All longbow attacks have 5% chance to summon random trap on targets on critical hits. (ICD 15 sec)

or…

(better one)
All attacks against DH have a 5% chance to spawn a random lesser trap below yourself. (ICD 15 sec)

It could be powerful so initial trap would be 80%(dmg, duration, buffs, condies) of the base one.

Shadow Dragon Bob.7160:

I know it was given up on a long time ago, but still the most limiting thing of Dragon Hunter is that trait mechanics did not stack into the new f1 f2 and f3 abilities. That wrecks so many things and I HATE that we spend more time arguing about traps when the fact of the matter is that Guardian has some great utility abilities already. In PVE I could see use of them being important in certain situations, that doesn’t make them bad. In PVP I’d like to try some out and honestly they could potentially merit two places on my skill bar.

Seriously though, TRAITS NEED TO CROSS INTO THE ELITE SPEC. Please consider this. My Sovereign Longbow is ready to rock, but I want my newfound abilities to be as versatile as those old ones. Otherwise, give the option to switch out of combat between the two types.

People are angry about traps because we are already limited on utilities. We have 2 good utility sets (only one per build though, mind you), one decent one, and two that are just flat out awful. Sure, we could just not use them, but that’d be glossing right over the entire point of us needing better utility variety and not getting them with traps because of how subpar they are from a mechanical standpoint.

Do you guys think that the Dragonhunter’s virtues are somewhat a nerf for Guardian?. I never liked having casting time of things, especially not on virtues. The virtues can be interrupted now which can prove some problems while pvp-ing. What do you think?

Sighs…
Still not worth changing from my main guardian to DH…
I guess I’ll just try to enjoy other classes…

Failchon.3247:

Do you guys think that the Dragonhunter’s virtues are somewhat a nerf for Guardian?. I never liked having casting time of things, especially not on virtues. The virtues can be interrupted now which can prove some problems while pvp-ing. What do you think?

They have a drawback. Same as having two ranged weapon skills that require you to not move for them to finish a channel is a drawback.

The question isn’t are they better in every way (because they shouldn’t be) but are the benefits worth the difficulties you have to manage while using them. Factoring in lower cooldowns than the insta-cast virtues, I’d argue Spear of just is there, Wings of Resolve is getting close, and Shield of Courage needs a little more something (possibly just a shorter cooldown).

Can you dump your leftover virtues mid-channel while casting Renewed focus? No. You can’t. If you’re going to run Renewed Focus on a Dragonhunter you need to use them up before punching the big red button. Because the virtue cooldowns are shorter than on a base Guardian, the reset function is not as meaningful on a Dragonhunter. Pretty much everything about the DH’s virtues is designed to nudge people off of Renewed Focus to try out the other elites available to them. Which in the long run will hopefully point a little more Dev-scrutiny at how TERRIBLE the elite signet is .

I’ve been meaning to make a long-winded feedback post about Dragonhunter, but honestly it echoes much of what has already been said and addressed. So I am just going to post the one suggestion I think would be greatly beneficial to traps.

I do like the fact that traps will now daze targets when activating, however, I am quite said that we will no longer get bleeds. One thing about specialization is that it promotes a different play style whether it be making melee/range more viable or giving access to more condis/boons. I always wanted to make a more condition based guardian and I thought Dragonhunter was headed down that path, but that is no longer the case.

So here is my suggestion as a medium: make a trait in which each trap gets an additional effect when triggered/on hit/on use.

Fragments of Faith – In addition to Aegis, each fragment will give Protection (8s)

Light’s Judgement – In addition to Vulnerablity, each hit will Blind (2s) or Burn (1) the target

Test of Faith – In addtion to Cripple, each trigger will Immobilize (1s) or apply a set stack of Bleeding (2~3 stacks?).

Procession of Blades – Each hit will cause Bleeding (6s). Pretty much the BWE1 trap trait.

This can be included in the trait already for traps or a new one. If a new trait…name it something like Trapper’s Vengeance. Just make sure that 20% cd is available in the Dragonhunter trait line because it is necessary for people who want to specialize in traps.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot Dragon’s Maw. I actually pretty happy with this trap as is.

Dragon Maw – In addition to the Slow, targets are also Stunned or Immobilized.

Arnath.2319:

Word of advice, avoid reddit, so many destructive comments from players deliberately trying to derail the discussion.

The range increase on Wings is nice, but Traps still need an urgent redesign.

I think it is time to make them Marks with an optional Grand Master trait that makes them invisible to enemies.

Traps aren’t visible to enemies. It has never been the case that an enemy could see a placed trap. Marks would actually make them visible, and therefore not traps.

I don’t know if we need a tooltip spelling out out or what. If anyone watched the livestream or played against the class, or even played against anything that laid a trap, you’d know you cannot see an enemy trap.

I haven’t tested enough to give any better feedback than what’s here, but as an elite skill I want Dragon Maw to do more. In my perfect world it would capture 5 in and breath fire while they are trapped (and maybe bleed too because why not).

To me it would just be epic to see a dragon mouth eat someone and breath fire while they are struggling to get out. A man can dream. Bonus points if “Trogdor the Burninator” song plays when the trap triggers.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Arnath.2319:

Word of advice, avoid reddit, so many destructive comments from players deliberately trying to derail the discussion.

The range increase on Wings is nice, but Traps still need an urgent redesign.

I think it is time to make them Marks with an optional Grand Master trait that makes them invisible to enemies.

Traps aren’t visible to enemies. It has never been the case that an enemy could see a placed trap. Marks would actually make them visible, and therefore not traps.

I don’t know if we need a tooltip spelling out out or what. If anyone watched the livestream or played against the class, or even played against anything that laid a trap, you’d know you cannot see an enemy trap.

Yes, but Marks aren’t. Did you even read his comment?

^^ I read it and it doesn’t make any sense IMO.

So change traps to marks which will MAKE them visible, then create a GM trait to make them invisible. … Because that’s somehow BETTER than having traps that are ALREADY invisible without a GM trait.

Um, no.

Good changes so far. Still not a fan of just % increases.

you should get benefits for traps being out, and traps triggered.

for example, when putting down a trap, you sould have 3% or 4$ more damage. once the trap is triggered the damage modifier should cool down and you should gain a boon, based on the trap used. traps need SOMETHING along these lines to make then even near … competitive

One problem with that idea is that it becomes visible that you’ve placed traps around, because now you’ve got that trait icon above your head (of we assume that’s the case, and it really should be with the many recent changes in that regard)

I’m interested in the idea that you get something for having a trap placed, I’m just not sure how it would work between all the traps in the game. This isn’t some simple solution to just add damage modifiers and boons out something, but there’s a smidgen of potential in the idea.

Azure.8670:

you should get benefits for traps being out, and traps triggered.

for example, when putting down a trap, you sould have 3% or 4$ more damage. once the trap is triggered the damage modifier should cool down and you should gain a boon, based on the trap used. traps need SOMETHING along these lines to make then even near … competitive

Maybe simpler but in the same theme:

• Piercing Light. You gain +2% damage for each un-triggered trap you have placed. Reduces the recharge time of traps by 20%.

It would max out at a +10% bonus while you have all 5 traps out, going down as you get foes to step in them. Kind of a neat insurance policy against those players who do manage to avoid the whole minefield…

Been away for abit & it’s nice to see the continued discussion & changes incoming for BW3.

Longbow
Overall Longbow is coming along nicely:

• #1 Fixes to targeting & the increase damage places this skill in a nicer spot.
• #2 Increases to damage was needed, adding to the pay off & making it more of a threat. (Although being able to move at the cost of some damage would be great, I believe this is the skill to force foes to burn through their defensive skills & make them want to close with you forcing them into your Traps).
• #3 Liking the direction with increased damage for blocking / destroying a projectile but this is another “Blocking Skill that DOESN’T block”. Making all the effect on block traits pointless (I feel many guardian block traits need to include destroyed / adsorbed / reflected / invulnerable as additional triggers but that’s another discussion).
• #4 Targeting behind & increase initial burn stack was all that was needed.
• #5 Still missing the mark. I see either 2 directions, first keep the long cooldown but make it an instant ward & include a short initial daze to help with the lockdown aspect or greatly reduce cooldown & slightly shorten warded duration allowing for more frequent uses.

Traps
First I’m very keen to test out the shorten cast times as this will make then more responsive opening up traps as a more viable option for more melee centred playstyles as well as less time casting more time playing 1sec can be a long time in GW2 combat).

I’m interested in if this will be enough. Also I’ve always wondered why all traps have the same cast time, I would think this would be a variable that depended on the traps strength providing quick placing traps (designed for melee range gameplay) to slow placing traps that provide great effect but require pre-placement or a window to place (CC, distance) .

TRAPS

I am perfectly happy with the Dragonhunter getting traps as their additional utility skill-type, but the traps themselves still need a little more payout for the risks.

• Purification. As it’s name suggests it needs to address conditions. Add “Placing this trap removes 1 condition from the Dragonhunter. When this trap is triggered convert 1 condition on the Dragonhunter to a boon.”
• Fragments of Faith. Still the gem of the set.
• Light’s Judgment. It’s right there in the name… Add “Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Test of Faith. Add “Placing this trap is a stunbreak. Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Procession of Blades. Spin to win! Add “First and final damage pulse are whirl finishers.”
• Dragon’s Maw. Needs more cowbell! Add “Downed enemies in the attack radius are killed at the end of the duration.” (using tech seen in the Daredevil Elite)

Adding a cleanse convert to the healing trap, a stun break to what is arguably the weakest of the traps, and a little more indirect condition cleansing through light fields will go a long way towards making trap-heavy or even all traps builds have the survivability to actually use the traps line.

I think this is a great idea of what Traps need to make up for what their lacking & part of the direction they should head in. I would also look at Traps cast times in regard to range gameplay styles, distanced or melee. This would allow for some reactive trap gameplay with some traps on top of proactive gameplay traps require.

Arnath.2319:

I don’t think Traps should get condi cleanse or any supportive features. We already have access to plenty of that in our other skills, Traps are meant to be different, offer something different.

I disagree with no condition protection included in Traps, it can still be a weakness that requires traiting & skill selection to help cover but it should be possible for a full trap build or mostly trap build to survive around conditions.

The same goes for CC, at least some type of small CC protection needs to be included in Traps. Making Test of Faith a Stun Break is a great idea greatly improving it’s uses proving addition gameplay to this trap.

Arnath.2319:

Whats the one thing Guardians lack? Conditions.

This quote taken from the Dragonhunter reveal post… “the new elite specialization gives them access to some conditions and functionality normally reserved for professions of a more physical nature.”

I think Traps should be our most superior damage skill option with lots of bleed, burning, cripple and other condis mixed in.

Traps need a major rework, similar to how Tempest Rebound just got a revamp, but i think it would be a mistake to offer us even more support on top of our already impressive supportive core skills

(i still think traps should be changed to marks, or symbols, or wells, or wards)

But here I agree, I’m sad to see Bleed removed and Dazed added. Although Daze can be a great condition I feel it doesn’t help in keeping your foes within your traps but am interested in how it play into DH & Trap gameplay to test.

An idea to keep the Bleeding is to have an initial stack of bleeds on triggering of the trap, as well as on each hit. Another addition to the trait which could help with trap build survivability could be:

Receive less damage from foes effected by cripple, bleeding & burning.

• -10% incoming damage (requires only one of these condition on foe).
• -15% incoming damage (requires tow of the three conditions on foe).
• -20% incoming damage (requires all three conditions).

Lastly again could either a pull or taunt be added to Spear of Justice providing a purely DH means of forcing foes into your traps through a CC effect.

Traits
I feel their starting to head somewhere but could Karl or a Dev provide the overall themes lines for the DH traits similar to what’s been mention for other Elites specs. I believe this would help greatly improve feedback players can provided. Through easily grouping 3 traits together into one overall themed playstyle. As of at the moment I’m having difficult doing this with current DH traits & their layout.

For example if I want a trap build & select Piercing Light to me I find the master & grandmaster traits lacking with minimum sync.

Looking at the traits & thinking about traps the traits I would want are (BW3 designs in mind):

• Piercing Light - Skill interuption & cooldown reduction but overall a boring trait as I feel Daze will have minor trap gameplay impact at the loss of improved guardian condition play (Also in moved to grandmaster I belive you could get a more interesting Trap trait).
• Zealot’s Aggression - cripple = longer time in trap (add a flip skill pull or taunt & this would be the perfect skill to sync with trap gameplay).
• Soaring Devastation - immobilise = longer time in trap plus provide position to help kite foes into your traps.
• Hunter’s Determination - extra trap & improved trap CC survivability but clashes with Retaliatory Subconscious, what’s the point of 2 Aegis applications (longer duration) in the circumstances this trait would trigger (would love some small Aegis stack for multiply blocking but again another discussion).
• Heavy Light Some CC positional control to help relocate foes into traps but the randomness of the knockback make it unreliable.

But even with these traits I still don’t feel a overall theme for this gameplay in the DH spec & I only feel like there just individual build improvements that have minumum sync into one usable themed playstyle.

For me all the DH traits feel like this, individual traits, it just would be nice to go this is;

• The entrapping trapper – Top spec line’s theme.
• The remorseless tracker – Mid spec line’s theme.
• The aggressive hunter – Bottom spec line’s theme.

You can then easily analyse if this spec lines were achieving their theme goal.

I think longbow and virtues are in a good spot now! Longbow is shaping up to be a fine weapon with decent damage, range, and decent traited effects. The virtues are starting to receive very adequate utility (and cd!) for their loss of instant cast time which makes the tradeoff worthwhile. I’m really excited to use the DH virtues in a wvw zerg build, and a roaming build!

One area we fall short though is the traps. I hope the devs look more closely at traps. Traps need a bit of up-tuning imo. I understand traps require a certain playstyle, but currently the traps: Offer only mediocre damage on power-based builds, cc that can easily be dealt with, have only a little bit of condition damage (better to take purging flames), long cds, no boons, no condi clear and no team support. Even for a selfish build, I think that a medi, or shouts guardian is going to out-shine a trap guardian.

Obtena.7952:

^^ I read it and it doesn’t make any sense IMO.

So change traps to marks which will MAKE them visible, then create a GM trait to make them invisible. … Because that’s somehow BETTER than having traps that are ALREADY invisible without a GM trait.

Um, no.

Marks are far superior. The only advantage Traps have is them being invisible, which is only useful in PVP, that is why i suggested making a trait making them invisible for those PVP players.

Marks are ground target-able, blast radius, instant effect, short cooldown, condi heavy skills that thematically fit this elite spec better.

Arnath.2319:

Marks are far superior. The only advantage Traps have is them being invisible, which is only useful in PVP, that is why i suggested making a trait making them invisible for those PVP players.

Marks are ground target-able, blast radius, instant effect, short cooldown, condi heavy skills that thematically fit this elite spec better.

Sadly they’re also a weapon effect not a utility skill type. All marks fire from the left-hand tray. They also don’t proc Runes of the Trapper . Personally, I’m planning to exploit that rune set hard with some of my Guards. Plus, you don’t think they’d really let us keep the current traps effect-magnitude while gaining ground targeting, instant payout, and instant arming time?

Arnath.2319:

Obtena.7952:

^^ I read it and it doesn’t make any sense IMO.

So change traps to marks which will MAKE them visible, then create a GM trait to make them invisible. … Because that’s somehow BETTER than having traps that are ALREADY invisible without a GM trait.

Um, no.

Marks are far superior. The only advantage Traps have is them being invisible, which is only useful in PVP, that is why i suggested making a trait making them invisible for those PVP players.

Marks are ground target-able, blast radius, instant effect, short cooldown, condi heavy skills that thematically fit this elite spec better.

This is pretty much true.

Looking at necro marks you can also see that they can be rather decent for support, burst damage & utility as well.

That being said its not impossible for them to fix traps, they just need to actually do more then adjust numbers.

If they were to look at each trap individually and give them one or so of the following then they might be worth using

1: Reduce how obvious the animation is. (right now you may as well have a billboard with lights above you when you drop one.
This is a must for PvP at any serious level, they don’t need to have no animation at all, just a little less obvious one.

2: Give them something to keep enemies within their radius, at least for a second or 2.
(a daze wont cut it, make it an immobilize or stun)

3: Give them either conditions, boons or utility support depending on the trap.

If they would do this then all the dragon hunter would really need is a bit of adjustments where traits are concerned & possibly an adjustment of longbow skill number 5.

I don’t think traps are the problem but the actual problem on the elite spec is the lack of synergy with others talents three. Look at the Scrapper, or at the Reaper, they actually have synergy possibilities with others talents tree. Dragonhunter lack of this and seems to focus exclusivly in longbow. Maybe making traps react like symbols can add some synergy with others talents tree?

PS: Tempest seems to have the same problem actually.

Traps need a trait that cleanses conditions when placed and do a burst healing (like meditations) when triggered. This trait would be a little to straight forward and kind of simplistic (maybe even redundant too), but it would make traps viable.

Guardians are actually very squishy without traits like these.

Arnath.2319:

Obtena.7952:

^^ I read it and it doesn’t make any sense IMO.

So change traps to marks which will MAKE them visible, then create a GM trait to make them invisible. … Because that’s somehow BETTER than having traps that are ALREADY invisible without a GM trait.

Um, no.

Marks are far superior. The only advantage Traps have is them being invisible, which is only useful in PVP, that is why i suggested making a trait making them invisible for those PVP players.

Marks are ground target-able, blast radius, instant effect, short cooldown, condi heavy skills that thematically fit this elite spec better.

Superiority isn’t a compelling argument to do what you are suggesting and I don’t think it’s as thematically fitting as you claim it would be.

Bezagron.7352:

Nike.2631:

TRAPS

I am perfectly happy with the Dragonhunter getting traps as their additional utility skill-type, but the traps themselves still need a little more payout for the risks.

• Purification. As it’s name suggests it needs to address conditions. Add “Placing this trap removes 1 condition from the Dragonhunter. When this trap is triggered convert 1 condition on the Dragonhunter to a boon.”
• Fragments of Faith. Still the gem of the set.
• Light’s Judgment. It’s right there in the name… Add “Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Test of Faith. Add “Placing this trap is a stunbreak. Triggering the trap creates a light field.”
• Procession of Blades. Spin to win! Add “First and final damage pulse are whirl finishers.”
• Dragon’s Maw. Needs more cowbell! Add “Downed enemies in the attack radius are killed at the end of the duration.” (using tech seen in the Daredevil Elite)

Adding a cleanse convert to the healing trap, a stun break to what is arguably the weakest of the traps, and a little more indirect condition cleansing through light fields will go a long way towards making trap-heavy or even all traps builds have the survivability to actually use the traps line.

I think this is a great idea of what Traps need to make up for what their lacking & part of the direction they should head in. I would also look at Traps cast times in regard to range gameplay styles, distanced or melee. This would allow for some reactive trap gameplay with some traps on top of proactive gameplay traps require.

Thanks . I’ve actually slimmed my list of essential trap changes down a tiny bit even from that post. I see where you’re going with trap set-time varying by functionality/role, but I suspect they’ll want a unified mechanic on the front end and them differentiate roles by cooldown times. While I think your approach may better evoke the vison of the scheming trap-setter, the skill type is having enough trouble gaining acceptance that its just as well you can throw them down in a mid-fight frenzy… PUSH ALL THE BUTTONS!

I’m sad to see Bleed removed and Dazed added. Although Daze can be a great condition I feel it doesn’t help in keeping your foes within your traps but am interested in how it play into DH & Trap gameplay to test.

An idea to keep the Bleeding is to have an initial stack of bleeds on triggering of the trap, as well as on each hit. Another addition to the trait which could help with trap build survivability could be:

Receive less damage from foes effected by cripple, bleeding & burning.

• -10% incoming damage (requires only one of these condition on foe).
• -15% incoming damage (requires tow of the three conditions on foe).
• -20% incoming damage (requires all three conditions).

You could probably simplify that to~

You receive -5% damage from foes for each condition they have from among bleeding, burning, and crippled.

Possibly with some other small effect to round out the trait. Even -15% damage would be pretty tanky for a Espec that’s already well positioned to kite like an entire kite festival .

Lastly again could either a pull or taunt be added to Spear of Justice providing a purely DH means of forcing foes into your traps through a CC effect.

I’d love a scorpion wire or taunt on DH. Just not sure where to cram it in!

Nike.2631:

I’d love a scorpion wire or taunt on DH. Just not sure where to cram it in!

i think i kno where anet would tell u to cram it in…

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

I’d love a scorpion wire or taunt on DH. Just not sure where to cram it in!

i think i kno where anet would tell u to cram it in…

On an f4 button? BRILLIANT!

…

After seeing druid I can say this is final nail in DH coffin. We are officially worst elite spec. Not because we have lonbgow, it’s all about traps. Traps are useless in every game mode because our traps do not apply conditions nor do some good dmg or cc or stability. Trait synergy with vanilla is just bad. God kitten Karl, you blew it this time, look how Irenio did his classes you could learn something from him.

Druid has a butt-load of buttons, but they’re HEALS. Has healing others ever been the make-or-break mechanic in this game?

Did you see so much as one Aegis in the druid’s kit? If they up the pressure with more high tempo/unavoidable damage we’re still going to be a crucial component of keeping the party up and fighting.

Everything looks very good now! Though still the issues of the minors being made a bit better.

Defender’s Dogma – Still think this needs to be changed just because it will really only work well with one or two abilities which would be Shield of Wrath and Shield of Courage. The most you’ll get out of the trait is maybe 2-3 procs of Defender’s Dogma, and shelter will work once because it’s a channeled block. if possible I think it would work better to refresh Spear of Justice with a ICD or keep the passive.

Pure of Sight – Still think this should be changed and merged with Heavy light for Longbow builds to compete with the other grandmasters.

Spear of Justice/Zealot’s Aggression – This is in a good spot now though with the coming changes coming to Zealot’s Aggression would it be possible for the tether from Spear of Justice to apply cripple periodically as well when you take Zealot’s Aggression? I think that would be fair.

Now for traps discussion. If we’re still trying to make Condi Dragon Hunter still a thing I suggest adding one more base condition effect with the traps.

Fragments of Faith – In addition to cripple adding weakness to a defensive trap support trap like this well help this trap out decently. Acting as a condition cover and a damage mitigator.

Light’s Judgement – On top of vulnerability and Reveal I think this trap should probably pulse blind.

Test of Faith – This one is pretty simple, on top of cripple and direct damage for crossing the ring, for condition build add about 3 stacks of torment for 6s would make it pretty good.

Procession of Blades – Bleeds on every hit this trap does would make it decent for condition specs.

Dragon’s Maw – To fit the theme of the skill as well as Guardian/Dragonhunter, On top of slow, apply a stack of burn every second they stay stuck inside with each stack lasting kitten .

That’s about it for my suggestions, and good work improving Dragonhunter.