Guild Wars 2

Kita.7819:

Crippling is for the WEAK kitten Would Batman cripple an enemy? No! Why would he waste his time with something like that! Whats the purpose of crippling? to extend the distance between you and an enemy. Why the hell would you want to do something like that? What are you doing, running away? You know who also runs away? COWARDS. are you a coward? If so, get out of this sub-board, you are not welcome as a guardian. You should be ashamed of yourself kitten We are GUARDIANS. We throw ourselves at the enemy. If they run, we chase them down using our own strengths, not using some skill that hampers their own. This is what it means to have HONOR. There is no value in a fight where neither side is at their strongest. We are not thieves, we do not hide silently in the dark waiting for the right time to strike!

A great man once said “I’m the god kitten Batman.” What he meant was that though as simple as his strengths might be, he always proved to be victorious over those that maintained a clear difference in power. He did not scream “OP” when Clayface could stop his movement, nor did he complain on the forums when the Penguin started using these OHKO weapons called “guns.” No, he DEALT WITH IT. He did not need cheap gimmicks to win fights, he just needed his own strengths.

TL:DR: YOU’RE kittenING BATMAN. START ACTING LIKE HIM.

Oh dear.

YOU HAVE TO CAST THINGS?

Clearly guardians have no way of doing anything if they have to cast stuff. Unlike every other professions that have instant 1200 range immobilizes?

If traited properly, we have a total of 8 skills that can remove conditions.

EIGHT SKILLS.

GS Chains should chill for thier duration.

Hammer chill trait should have cooldown reduced to 20s. It’s such a ~~~s~l~o~w~~~ weapon.

That would be more than enough.

I think the biggest complain I have is wit Immobilze.

First of all SKudder thanks for posting this thread .. and awesome name! I completely agree on the fact that Guardians need A TOOL for snaring people. I mean absolutely none of our weapons OR UTILITIES have a cripple on them. Which makes fighting in melee, which we have to do 100% of the time (cmon, don’t tell me you actually use scepter in pvp) very hard to do.

It’s sad that trolls have run rampant throughout the thread with totally LAME excuses for why Guardians shouldn’t get a cripple.

“ermagerd, you have cond removal”
Who cares, a necro can remove all his conditions while improving the effectiveness of his heal, with one ability. No one is even talking about cond removal, it’s the fact that we cant keep someone in melee with us, it’s simply way too easy to run away and disengage a Guardian.

“ermagerd, you have gap clersers”
Once again, a terrible attempt to disregard the need for a cripple. Yes, we can close gaps, NO ONE ARGUED THIS FACT. But closing gaps is a LOT DIFFERENT than keeping someone in melee range where you can effectively use your autoattacks and do damage. Keep in mind, our “gap closers” are usually 600 range unless you’re talking about our One ability (JI) to close a gap on a 45 second cooldown. Conversely, you can look at Thief SB (900range) Warrior Dash+Whirlwind (gets you about 1200 – 1500 range) ele’s lightning surge or whatever it’s called (900-1200 roughly) .. we’re not the only ones with gap closers.. but simply the only ones without cripples.

“ermagerd, you have RoW and LoW”
These area denial skills, while extremely useful in large scale engagements, are completely useless in 1v1/small scale skirmishes. Not only do both have a huge cast time while being completely immobile, but the area denial skills can be dodged/jumped/lucked through on a regular basis- and still fail to keep a target where you can actually work on doing damage in melee range.

See the problem Robin, is that people fear batman, and run from him. Batman is nothing without his utility belt, it seems guardians did not receive one of those.

Also, good post George. I have no complaints about anything except, that in a 1v1, 5v5, 10v10, whatever. Any profession at any point can disengage the fight against a guardian and say, well that was fun, but time to run, and guardians just have to sit there and /wave. Because you won’t catch them.

SKuDDer.1860:

See the problem Robin, is that people fear batman, and run from him. Batman is nothing without his utility belt, it seems guardians did not receive one of those.

Seems like you’re using the wrong utility belt then. The way I see it, there are only two decent Guardian trait builds out there. 10/30/30/0/0 which focuses on one handed weapons and meditations, and 0/10/30/30/0 which focuses on shouts. Guardians have to trait for their utilities. Properly traited meditations can heal you and have lower CDs. Properly traited shouts can heal you and remove conditions.

Consecrations suck. Spirit Weapons suck. Signets suck. If Wrath’s passive was given to Bane it would be useful, but its not, so it sucks.

Oh, theres that signet that heals 50% of your hp and can be used every 32 seconds when traited. That’s pretty useful.

Just like Batman, you can’t win on brute strength alone. How else would he be able to defeat the likes of Bane? Yes, I said it is dishonorable to use conditions like cripple. But what cripple does is weaken an enemy already at their best capabilities. When an enemy such as Bane is using a cheap tactic to gain an advantage, it is fair game to the Batman to exploit it. Cut the cord, stop his drug intake and fight human to human.

What I’m trying to say is, use a scepter dummy. Use Chains of Light if you’re having issues.

I went more for the ultralistic healing / hammer / damage combo.
0/15/30/20/5
Every boon heals you, hammer two hand 3rd attack puts -33% damage buff, also heals you for each player it hits, your virtues heal you, your crits give out might and heal you for each player it hits. Damage is good, you always have -33% buff up, i use runes of the soldier for shouts to remove conditions, spec for shouts to have smaller cooldown, they heal you because they apply boons to others. Sad thing is, the only ability to keep someone close is the 50% chance on crit to apply a 4s chill with a 45s CD, kinda lame :\

George Steel.1804:

First of all SKudder thanks for posting this thread .. and awesome name! I completely agree on the fact that Guardians need A TOOL for snaring people. I mean absolutely none of our weapons OR UTILITIES have a cripple on them. Which makes fighting in melee, which we have to do 100% of the time (cmon, don’t tell me you actually use scepter in pvp) very hard to do.

It’s sad that trolls have run rampant throughout the thread with totally LAME excuses for why Guardians shouldn’t get a cripple.

“ermagerd, you have cond removal”
Who cares, a necro can remove all his conditions while improving the effectiveness of his heal, with one ability. No one is even talking about cond removal, it’s the fact that we cant keep someone in melee with us, it’s simply way too easy to run away and disengage a Guardian.

“ermagerd, you have gap clersers”
Once again, a terrible attempt to disregard the need for a cripple. Yes, we can close gaps, NO ONE ARGUED THIS FACT. But closing gaps is a LOT DIFFERENT than keeping someone in melee range where you can effectively use your autoattacks and do damage. Keep in mind, our “gap closers” are usually 600 range unless you’re talking about our One ability (JI) to close a gap on a 45 second cooldown. Conversely, you can look at Thief SB (900range) Warrior Dash+Whirlwind (gets you about 1200 – 1500 range) ele’s lightning surge or whatever it’s called (900-1200 roughly) .. we’re not the only ones with gap closers.. but simply the only ones without cripples.

“ermagerd, you have RoW and LoW”
These area denial skills, while extremely useful in large scale engagements, are completely useless in 1v1/small scale skirmishes. Not only do both have a huge cast time while being completely immobile, but the area denial skills can be dodged/jumped/lucked through on a regular basis- and still fail to keep a target where you can actually work on doing damage in melee range.

I read this post as:
“you have EVEYTHING”
I want MORE!

Yes gap closers, pulls and immobilizes are not enough. We MUST have AoE cripples too. Class is completely unviable without it.

I came from maining a necro (go look at the number of closers on that class and tell me with a straight face that guardian is the least mobile class) and the amount of mobility that my guardian has is amazing. A gap closer with an 8 second cooldown on my weapon skills? You’re pretty terrible to be losing a foot race.

Dibrom.6408:

George Steel.1804:

First of all SKudder thanks for posting this thread .. and awesome name! I completely agree on the fact that Guardians need A TOOL for snaring people. I mean absolutely none of our weapons OR UTILITIES have a cripple on them. Which makes fighting in melee, which we have to do 100% of the time (cmon, don’t tell me you actually use scepter in pvp) very hard to do.

It’s sad that trolls have run rampant throughout the thread with totally LAME excuses for why Guardians shouldn’t get a cripple.

“ermagerd, you have cond removal”
Who cares, a necro can remove all his conditions while improving the effectiveness of his heal, with one ability. No one is even talking about cond removal, it’s the fact that we cant keep someone in melee with us, it’s simply way too easy to run away and disengage a Guardian.

“ermagerd, you have gap clersers”
Once again, a terrible attempt to disregard the need for a cripple. Yes, we can close gaps, NO ONE ARGUED THIS FACT. But closing gaps is a LOT DIFFERENT than keeping someone in melee range where you can effectively use your autoattacks and do damage. Keep in mind, our “gap closers” are usually 600 range unless you’re talking about our One ability (JI) to close a gap on a 45 second cooldown. Conversely, you can look at Thief SB (900range) Warrior Dash+Whirlwind (gets you about 1200 – 1500 range) ele’s lightning surge or whatever it’s called (900-1200 roughly) .. we’re not the only ones with gap closers.. but simply the only ones without cripples.

“ermagerd, you have RoW and LoW”
These area denial skills, while extremely useful in large scale engagements, are completely useless in 1v1/small scale skirmishes. Not only do both have a huge cast time while being completely immobile, but the area denial skills can be dodged/jumped/lucked through on a regular basis- and still fail to keep a target where you can actually work on doing damage in melee range.

I read this post as:
“you have EVEYTHING”
I want MORE!

Yes gap closers, pulls and immobilizes are not enough. We MUST have AoE cripples too. Class is completely unviable without it.

Go ahead and tell me what other Melee centric profession lacks a cripple. Actually, tell me ANY profession that lacks a cripple.

Now tell me which profession has NO condition removal? None.
Tell me which profession has NO gap closers? None.

kiting is less an issue in GW2 as it is in other MMOs. There are plenty of options to close gaps for the guardian and speed boons/retaliation make up for the lack of cripple. Kiting 100% with ranged attacks is quite hard to pull off especially when a melee character can easily predict the direction the player is trying to strafe. Picking the right utilities and traits is important and imo I think that is enough for a class which already difficult enough to kill.

George Steel.1804:

Now tell me which profession has NO condition removal? None.
Tell me which profession has NO gap closers? None.

.
Edit: These buggy forums are annoying. Show me that melee necro cripple. Also guardians are the KING of condition removal. I was shocked coming from my necro.
Seriously, you’re terrible if you can’t keep up with a sub 10 second gap closer.

Dibrom.6408:

George Steel.1804:

Now tell me which profession has NO condition removal? None.
Tell me which profession has NO gap closers? None.

.
Edit: These buggy forums are annoying. Show me that melee necro cripple. Also guardians are the KING of condition removal. I was shocked coming from my necro.
Seriously, you’re terrible if you can’t keep up with a sub 10 second gap closer.

Staff has a 4s chill 20s cd
axe has a 5s cripple, 25s cd
focus 5s chill 20s cd
warhorn pulsing cripple
scepter 5s cripple 10s cd

and thats just from their melee abilities.

Also, necros i think might be the king of condition removal. All these convert or remove conditions:
Corrupt boon
Deathly swarm
draw conditions
feast of corruption
plague signet
plague strike
putrid mark
unholy feat
well of corruption
well of power

SKuDDer.1860:

Dibrom.6408:

George Steel.1804:

Now tell me which profession has NO condition removal? None.
Tell me which profession has NO gap closers? None.

.
Edit: These buggy forums are annoying. Show me that melee necro cripple. Also guardians are the KING of condition removal. I was shocked coming from my necro.
Seriously, you’re terrible if you can’t keep up with a sub 10 second gap closer.

Staff has a 4s chill 20s cd
axe has a 5s cripple, 25s cd
focus 5s chill 20s cd
warhorn pulsing cripple
scepter 5s cripple 10s cd

and thats just from their melee abilities.

SKud just explained to you the plethora of cripples necros have at their disposal.

What also bothered me was “show me that necro MELEE cripple” as in you wanted to see a necro cripple on a specific weapon set. Guess what though, Guardians don’t have a SINGLE CRIPPLE period. Not on any weapon, any utility. We do get a 45 second cooldown 2second duration chill, on crit, on ONE WEAPON, through traits. If you consider that anything..

EDIT: Oh we do have one cripple! On our Elite, Tome of Wrath, on ability 2. But you can’t exactly use that to help people stay in melee range, since it is a ranged elite. Hahaha.. I just realized our only cripple is embedded into our ranged damage dealing elite! Fantastic!

SKud just explained to you the plethora of cripples necros have at their disposal.
What also bothered me was “show me that necro MELEE cripple” as in you wanted to see a necro cripple on a specific weapon set. Guess what though, Guardians don’t have a SINGLE CRIPPLE period. Not on any weapon, any utility. We do get a 45 second cooldown 2second duration chill, on crit, on ONE WEAPON, through traits. If you consider that anything..

But some of us are forgetting that necros have those cripples for a reason. They may have lots of hit points but they are also one of the squishiest of all the class. Balance is the keyword and I do not see for a second why guardians need a constant source of cripple. The amount of boons and condition removals goes inline with the necros conditions and cripples.

Because again for the now 11th time. ANY profession at any point in a fight with a guardian can say hey, I don’t feel like dying, so I am going to run now and there is nothing a guardian can do about it. Sure we can close the gap once or twice, but if you aren’t dead by then or you cripple us, well we cant pursue.

Is this thread serious or what? Even if your target is not crippled you can still spam your attack on the move and inflict all your damage. If your opponent get some distance between you just close to gap again with all your tools. WTF is so hard to understand? I think the major problems with you guys is you are not using proper binds to control your character effectively.

I am really not surprised to see all those thread on this forum about peoples complaining that would explain why 90% of the peoples suck so bad in pvp.

Well for one, I don’t pvp, I WvWvW, and two, why do you people think guardians can close the gap so easily? We have at max 2 abilities, one of which is 1200 range on a 45s cd, and the melee abilities are all 600 range, most people can get 600 range or greater in one ability, so you cant really close the gap with those.

Natas.1306:

Is this thread serious or what? Even if your target is not crippled you can still spam your attack on the move and inflict all your damage. If your opponent get some distance between you just close to gap again with all your tools. WTF is so hard to understand? I think the major problems with you guys is you are not using proper binds to control your character effectively.

I am really not surprised to see all those thread on this forum about peoples complaining that would explain why 90% of the peoples suck so bad in pvp.

Again for the 12th time, its not about closing the gap, guardians can do this. Its about keeping someone from running. Any profession can easily cripple us and run away, nothing we can do about it because we have no counter cripple.

Again for the 12th time, its not about closing the gap, guardians can do this. Its about keeping someone from running. Any profession can easily cripple us and run away, nothing we can do about it because we have no counter cripple.

Bolded that part for importance. If that is your reason then it is a skill issue.

Cripples count as conditions. Guardians have up to 3 passive condition removals. A trait that removes conditions when using shouts. One consecrate that removes conditions. 2 meditations that removes conditions. One of them turns the condition into a buff resulting in a speed bonus. 2 Shouts also grant a speed bonus that is more than enough. Enemies cannot have 80% cripple time on you. Once you’ve removed the cripple change weapons, use a speed boon. There is so much to do than just sit there and feel sorry for yourself.

If you are still having problems with enemies running away then you should probably look at your traits and weapon setup. The Mace/shield isn’t going to grant you this. Carry a sword/GS/Hammer or Scepter with you at all times. I cannot believe this has gone this far.

Again, Polle. I use both hammer and 1h sword. The problem is that cripples for other professions are spam-able, 5-15s CD where our condition removal is often 25-45s CD. We have 4 abilities total(2 in weapons and 2 from skills) that put immobilize on targets, but due to the lack of viable builds, no one ever uses 1hand mace, or the signets as options. And they are only 2s duration’s anyways (If you can even get them to land).

The problem arises when someone wants to flee, they have gap closers, break conditions, teleports, and speeds just the same as us, but they also have MANY MANY more conditions for cripples or chills that are much longer duration’s. If you are using sPvP as your grounds for your opinion, don’t. sPvP isn’t true to form of this game, the stats of players are extremely off. In WvWvW in the open field, where there is plenty of running room, guardians are lacking extremely in controlling players from fleeing.

A thief can use heartseeker 3-4 times, permanent passive 25% speed, stealth, and 2 teleports, you will never catch them.

A warrior can cripple for 8.75s, with multiple different weapons, leap a great distance, and permanent 30% speed between warhorn and signet.

A necro can cripple for 5s+, permanent speed boost + speed, plus teleport away.

A mesmer can easily teleport vast distances

And so on… the point is every profession but guardians has CC in their base melee skills that are instant, ranged, or 5s+ durations. Guardian is the only class that is forced to use melee, because lets face it, staff and mace are not viable ranged options. We need to have more control once we get to a target to try to keep them there and force them to use more condition removal skills to get away.

My build is fine, it has probably the most mobility in the game(for guardians), with the best gap closers. I play WvWvW, but we don’t zerg, we 4-8 man roam, and this is where the problem is. Sure in large scale its not a problem, sure in sPvP its not a problem, but when you are fighting 1v1, or 2v2, or 3v3, and someone wants to run away in the open fields of WvWvW, you won’t catch them plain and simple. Everyone has speed, some have more then 30% speed, so Save yourselfs and retreat don’t really aid our cause. If you aren’t having problems with people running from you, then more then likely its because you die most of the time.

I am going to start recording videos to help aid my point.

Hm, how is your dps btw? I feel like all your really need is to land 2-3 small combos to deplete the persons health and gearing up helps too for damage output. If you do not have enough time to land hits, increase your dps so when you land a hit, it does more damage. There are builds where you can have both dps and good defense. Once I finish farming my legendary (xD gonna be awhile) I’ll post a video too about my battles in WvW. Actually fought a few warriors really well when they tried to run. Then I got ambushed by a thief for one of the battles but I made it out alive (can’t catch me either!) haha but I use my environment to my advantage.

Tangent story that I just wanted to share—everytime I fight in wvw I always make sure I’m in range of an animal/enemy so when I’m in a jam, I JI to them, and get the heck out. But I find it funny sometimes when I’m freaking out looking for something I can click on XD

Damage is really the best it can be while still having good survivability. MB 3-5k crits, with auto attacking hitting for ~900-1200. The problem is that as soon as you do a 3 hit combo and mightly blow, you’ve done about 8-9kdmg and they usually flee, because of having toughness and -33% damage reduction they tend to not really make a dent in you, unless they are a thief, then they just explode you in seconds.

SKuDDer.1860:

Damage is really the best it can be while still having good survivability. MB 3-5k crits, with auto attacking hitting for ~900-1200. The problem is that as soon as you do a 3 hit combo and mightly blow, you’ve done about 8-9kdmg and they usually flee, because of having toughness and -33% damage reduction they tend to not really make a dent in you, unless they are a thief, then they just explode you in seconds.

Oh man, I just had to agree with you on the thief part, I never experienced it until yesterday and the thief downed me so freaking fast. Somehow I rallied, and then jetted after that. But that was so surprising at first.

For skill/trait diversity, I still insist that chill or cripple needs to be added to the guardian.

SKuDDer.1860:

Because again for the now 11th time. ANY profession at any point in a fight with a guardian can say hey, I don’t feel like dying, so I am going to run now and there is nothing a guardian can do about it. Sure we can close the gap once or twice, but if you aren’t dead by then or you cripple us, well we cant pursue.

Funny, seeing as there has only been one occasion when one enemy has gotten away from my Retreat, SaveYourselves, SymbolSwiftness, JudgesIntervention, LeapofFaith setup, and that was another guardian, but one with a sword (Flashing Blade? Blinding Flash?)

Cripple has never affected me. You can’t cripple the Batman and expect to get away. That just makes me angry.

Are you speaking in terms of WvW or PvP?

SKuDDer.1860:

For skill/trait diversity, I still insist that chill or cripple needs to be added to the guardian.

What did I tell you!

THIS is the weapon of the ENEMY. We do not NEED it. We will not USE it.

SKuDDer.1860:

Are you speaking in terms of WvW or PvP?

WvW. I don’t run a shout build in PVP, nor do I use a Greatsword. My only gap closers in PVP are Flash and JI, and I lose JI when I do tournaments.

So retreat, and save yourselves, I am assuming you are using rune of the solider then?Otherwise how are you removing your conditions? If anyone crippled you they would leave you in the dust. Also when you change to staff for swiftness, you aren’t doing any real damage for 10s, Leap of faith is a 15s cd with only a 600 range, most teleports are 900, so you probably cant really say that’s viable for gap closing in 50% of situations after JI is on CD.

You don’t need rune of the Soldier to remove conditions. That’s what Pure of Voice and properly timed dodges are for. Staff ‘s AOE range is huge, like 600 or so. And its technically Melee which is nice. Regardless, once the Line goes down its all over. Even if they stumble once there’s little they can do.

Also, after forcing 2 dodges from them and exhausting their initiation you can throw out a binding blade to pull and stop their movement.

Fighting a thief is all about thinking.

Lets imagine a situation.

I’m fighting a thief. He gets down to 20% hp or so while I’m still rocking 80%. The thief starts to run. Normally they will use their AOE invisibility first. During that time I try and spam /laugh as much as I can as well as use Whirling Wrath. Eventually they get out. Now the hunt begins.

I start with Retreat! and leap of faith. They’ll typically dodge it, as is expected. Then they’ll unleash two of their shortbow shadow steps. That’s when I use JI. It will not close the gap entirely though. However, my movespeed is faster than the thief’s. Its so fast that I quickly close the gap enough to use… My Staff’s melee.

So now I’m dealing some chip damage and he’s freaking out. I get two dodges out of him. Perfect. There goes the line. Bam, end of line, the line ends here. He stumbles for a bit as I switch to greatsword and release another leap of faith, followed by a binding blade. Its done. Even if he does another shortbow shadow step, I will be able to get close enough to pull him or at least knock him down.

That is unrealistic, it would be, a thief gets you to 20% while he might be at 80% then you heal, and he starts running away because all his abilities are on CD. He can hit heartseaker 3 times, his teleport and then he is already over 1200 distance from you, pull and leap are out of the question.

In that case I an a fairy, seeing as my endeavors are non-existant.

I hate it when people on forums say bullkitten like “trust me” but…

Would I lie? I love Guardians, I hate Thieves. Even if my math is wrong, the result is correct. Remember also that initiation is initiation. Heartseeker and whatever that shortbow move is are counter-productive. Its either one or the other. In this case, the Shortbow covers more ground.

Hm, I doubt it’s unrealistic SKuDDer, but that just shows the player’s skills in action. I mean, other players can make mistakes but let alone that each situation is totally different. If the guy heartseeker’s 3 times and retreats, heal + JI, cover that 1200 and leapoffaith or sword flash to him, or both. Get close enough you can bind and hit him and then still keep up with him with our speed boons. I think you should go to other threads and read their complaints on us, before wanting changes to ourselves. If the whole community even other class players think we need a buff, they I feel like then we should. I mean…I feel necros need a buff haha because I barely see one in any pvp setting let alone have troubel with one.

How? how can you JI something you cannot see, this is flawed with trying to say it will work on a thief. I can count the number of times on my hands that I have died to a guardian on my thief in WvWvW in the open field, and of those times all of them are because I decided to stay and fight.

SKuDDer.1860:

How? how can you JI something you cannot see, this is flawed with trying to say it will work on a thief. I can count the number of times on my hands that I have died to a guardian on my thief in WvWvW in the open field, and of those times all of them are because I decided to stay and fight.

Hit tab constantly until he pops up haha. But theifs can be hit in stealth right? If he’s nearby flail around, and be on guard for a sudden strike (which will take them out of stealth) and strike back. Point is, if I hit you and you hit me, I should win given the utilities I have. Aegis+33%dmgreduc+retal help in defensive counters. Personally I use my shield and get ready for a shield of absorption blast if my hp goes down at all and then go to attack them. Anyways, I’m out on this thread, but all I just wanted to say that although it may be harder for us; we do have all the skills we need to beat other classes.

And PS; I’ve fought almost all classes in WvW and have never lost. The only times I die are due to 4v1s. You have to realize most ppl who WvW are not sPvP champs or even well-geared people.

If a thief uses shadowstep, they instantly get ported up to 1200 range, 1 step and they are out of your JI.

Tell you what, lets meet up. I will use my thief, and record videos of me dropping you before you know what I did to you, this will be the combo, assuming you have about 1800 toughness and 3000 armor, with around 1kittenp. Unless you are full bunker build which is pointless because you do hardly any damage.

You also assume you have aegis up all the time for the first attack, which usually is not the case, its once every 45s or 30 if traited.

Anyways here is what will happen:
Step 1: Hit you once, shield is gone
Step 2: I cast Scale Venom, then Basilisc venom on you, you cannot do anything for 1.5s (no spells no movement),
Step 3: use steal/cloak and dagger at the same time along with activating assassin’s signet (150% dmg on next attack), this way my backstab hits you for about 9-11k depending on your armor levels) My cloak and dagger already hits you for about 4-6k, and my steal for about 3-5k. In this time you have been unable to do anything because of basilisc venom. (At this point at min i have done 16k damage in 3 attacks, and max 22k) So depending on your health you are downed/barely alive.
Step 4: Depending on the circumstance, 1 heartseeker, or stealth and flee from battle.

SkuDDer I think it’s pointless to argue here. When one profession doesn’t possess what the others have it’s a little awkward.(in this case cripples and stuns) You can’t justify why the six other classes can have it and one does not. I completely agree and have stated in other threads abilities the Guardian lacks where other classes have easy access to.

Sure, I’m down with that. Uh, i think my armor is 2600? And aegis stacks in duration, virtue of courage makes it so you have it for like hours upon hours if you haven’t been hit by someone in awhile. And yeah, beyond that, I never use its passive effect, I use the activation whenever I can. I’m in SoR though. I’d prefer not to transfer but if you are in Eredon Terrace or Tarnished Coast, I’ll go for a bout.

I think its all about balance. A class that admitedly doesnt die unless u fock up, you have to sacrifice time on target to retain the best support/durability in the game.

You cant be 100% on target while retaining that much of defence (armor+heals/removals).

You do realize that the Elementalist is a better bunker class than the Guardian and also has quite a bit of access to cripples. Where’s the balance there?

SKuDDer.1860:

Tell you what, lets meet up. I will use my thief, and record videos of me dropping you before you know what I did to you, this will be the combo, assuming you have about 1800 toughness and 3000 armor, with around 1kittenp. Unless you are full bunker build which is pointless because you do hardly any damage.

You also assume you have aegis up all the time for the first attack, which usually is not the case, its once every 45s or 30 if traited.

Anyways here is what will happen:
Step 1: Hit you once, shield is gone
Step 2: I cast Scale Venom, then Basilisc venom on you, you cannot do anything for 1.5s (no spells no movement),
Step 3: use steal/cloak and dagger at the same time along with activating assassin’s signet (150% dmg on next attack), this way my backstab hits you for about 9-11k depending on your armor levels) My cloak and dagger already hits you for about 4-6k, and my steal for about 3-5k. In this time you have been unable to do anything because of basilisc venom. (At this point at min i have done 16k damage in 3 attacks, and max 22k) So depending on your health you are downed/barely alive.
Step 4: Depending on the circumstance, 1 heartseeker, or stealth and flee from battle.

Alright, that’s fine. I mean, I can somewhat believe you and it makes sense, but we can play it out. Give a few rounds to get me used to it though. But let’s try to prove one thing at a time. Before we complain about how theifs can get away, we should look at if a Guardian can even fight a thief with appropriate builds/skill level. Then if I do beat you consistently, we can see if I can keep up with you upon retreat. But haha, try not to be so presumptious. I’m not your average player :P and neither are you thus I have not called you out on anything

Besides you guys going at it, Skudder makes a point. He’s provided facts about our weapons based on CD and use when compared to other classes. I’m not saying the Guardian is terrible just it lacks the necessities every other profession possesses.

Idk, I think you guys give Guardians little credit imo. This is what I’m trying to prove. If a video won’t do it, idk what will. I will try my best to show you guys what Guardians can do.

I just said Guardians aren’t terrible, please read my friend. All I said, once again, was that there’s a few things that should be adjusted. I have almost 600 hours on my Guardian so I don’t need a lesson on what Guardians can do but rather have a simple discussion on what Guardians can use.

No, I read it and sorry for my wording, but I just mean I absolutely disagree that we lack necessities. Also, I’m not trying to give you a lesson. I’m just taking it one step at a time and I’m trying to prove Skudder wrong that Guardians cannot handle thiefs in combat and then that Guardians can definitely catch up to thiefs when they retreat.

But I discussed earlier about some pointers Guardians have in both aspects. Is there anything specific you have trouble against Arken?

I understand what you’re saying and I get it. But you don’t find it strange that one class out of seven lacks conditions that all others have access to? It’s not hard to keep up with someone when you’re using the right weapons/skills.