Guild Wars 2

Dear Karl,

I love all the changes. my only concern is the heal trap.
Personally I would prefer an effect that occurs when the trap is set. It should not be a boon since thats basically telgraphing what trap you just set. Condi cleanse seems most useful at teh moment.

It’s about equality while each profession will never truly be equal the fact remains with only one profession left with out a passive run speed trait it immediately makes us unequal to the others, even with all profession’s having access to passive run speed trait , not every one is necessarily going to want to use it but there’s now no reasons why we shouldn’t have that choice either. Swiftness will always be useful one way or another but most guards are sick to death of only being half of what they should be due to having to use a weapon we dont really want to use outside of zerg farming and not 1 but 2 utility’s slots are eaten up by it , this leaves a lot guards with a deep sense of uselessness. Guards just like every one should have a choice in what weapons and skills they use for each game mode, but our dependence on swiftness prevents this greatly.

I dont want to run with staff/longbow for all of hot and i shouldn’t have to either.
This change won’t actually make guards stronger it will simply eliminate a problem that has been ruining our game play for years, there is far too many reasons for this to happen and there is no true reason for it not to happen.

personally i find it rather difficult that a few people fail to see that 8/9 of having it is completely unfair and unbalanced. When it was a few professions that didn’t have access to a passive run speed trait it was ok but now with only one there’s no point for guards to not have it.

I played the DH for 16.5hours in the 3rd beta week end by about 3hours in the lack of run speed was really starting to make it a nightmare, running around silver wastes and verdant brink was hell and on top of that the root to true shot just adds insult to injury.

The reason this change is important is equality, balance and quality of life, as a said before since all other professions have it guards won’t become more powerful from it but with out this change guards are unintentionally being made weaker.

There are many guards out there that are sick and tired of using staff as a plain old stat stick of swiftness, same goes for save yourselves and retreat. Weapons and skills should be used because their apart of your build not as stat sticks that your really wish you never had to resort to using but in the end your forced into using anyway. mesmers no longer have to use focus as a stat stick for swiftness, same with rangers and warhorn.

Mesmers and rangers now have alot more freedom to what build they can create now thanks to their new passive run speed traits, there is no reason now why guards shouldn’t have the same freedom for their builds as well.

Let me explain you something, Revenant and mesmer (Core Spec) dont have 25% MS their elite spec have the access to perma swiftness (Herald) and 25% MS (Chrnomancer).
Which means that when the second tier of E-Spec come out they will have to choose between the new E-Spec and the old E-Spec because you cannot equip more than one E-Spec at the same time (you can only equip the E-Spec in the Third Slot).

Probably we will have the famous 25% MS in other Guardian E-Spec in the future. Stop the QQ and deal with it.

that’s a rather troll like attitude you got there, crying over it isn’t what I’m doing here my reasons are for asking for a 25% run speed trait are valid and so far none of the trolls pretending that they are main guardians have given a actual proper reason as to why it shouldn’t happen.

It’s also likely to be another 3 years in another expack that we will get another elite spec (if we do). I noticed how you used the word choose on the matter of rev/mesmer
both of those professions have a choice in that matter, guards however don’t yet.

In truth i doubt very much there ever will be a thing as a second elite spec, it certainly would just be better design for arena net to allow each profession to use another weapon without needing a elite spec to equip it in the next expack.

Mesmers get the trait time marches on noctis which provides 25% passive run speed and reduces the impairing conditions by 25%.

Revenant utility’s are locked in place per legend they use Facet of Elements +Facet of Nature (F2) in full passive up time of swiftness so in truth what revs have is = 33% passive run speed and with the addition of shiro legend they have super speed as well.

Still i don’t get why some people think 8/9 is fair because it simply isn’t.

As for you notics your attitude isn’t constructive and is rather hostile
so unless you have valid reasons that consist of more then saying awww your QQing which is it shouldn’t happen or deal with it. Ultimately its the Dev’s decision I’m just saying my piece here.

If you wish to bring a constructive reason as to how such a change will effect/not effect the balance between all professions feel free to do so, but keep your poor hostile attitude out of this thread.

You can’t just call something you don’t like “trolling”. Expect a 25% movement something eventually in the future. But for the moment, it’s not something we need. Traveler’s and Speed are overrated effects.

Maybe my post sounds a little troll so i apologize. This maybe sounds rude but i really hate that almost everyone is asking for 25% when DH clearly need changes on the bow and mainly the traits.

i won’t argue that Defender’s Dogma is pretty much useless, but ask for QoL for our minor is not the answer neither….

Dh traits are a pretty in good shape now except for defenders dogma.

I know there’s issues with bow on puncture shot , true shot and hunters ward cast being a bit too slow and a few traits that dont seem to work very well with Dh such as retribution from the radiance trait line. Those however are more under the lines of minor fixes needed to be done. 8/9 professions have something one doesn’t is a balance issue and trumps minor fixes by a long shot in priority.

Rune of the traveler was never a real option in the 1st place, i did spend 2 hours in the beta weekend testing the difference between scholar and traveler the damage loss caused by using traveler runes was over 20%, where true shot would crit a target for 15k with travelers runes it crits for 11k this is why travelers runes will never be a viable option for us.

The root to true shot is really only a pain because we were already slow before, however its flawed that we cant use dodge whilst true shot is casting. Overall a passive run speed trait will do more for us then removing the root to true shot which is why removing the root to true is probably the lowest priority fix needed at the moment.
(what i mean by this comment is hitting dodge whilst true shot is casting wont cancel the cast and dodge the attack continues to cast, having to cancel true shots cast then use dodge is a bit lame)

A fix to puncture shot however is probably the 2nd highest priority in order of fixes/changes needed as the bounce requirement is beyond stupid and ruins the usefulness of the attack a great deal.

I like everyone hates the long cast time on hunters ward but i dont see it being changed as of yet.

As for defenders dogma it would be very difficult for the devs to change this to something else apart from a passive run speed trait without giving Dh too much, possibly 25% run speed whilst wielding ranged weapons may feel too weak for the minor slot defenders dogma uses but it results in giving us something we both need and want without giving the trait line too much.

heavy light defiantly is too weak for a grand master trait and should probably have dulled sense merged into it to make it a more worthy of a gm trait as it does compete with big game hunter but doesn’t come close to it.

I do feel dragon hunters overall ability to actually apply cripple to targets is rather low but this is a difficult subject to handle in terms of balance, typically our traps are our only reliable sources of cripple, as for puncture shot it needs to hit both targets to apply its cripple but its obscene bounce requirement makes this a nightmare to achieve.

My interest isn’t solely for a run speed trait speed but i do feel that lack of one is still the largest problem for Guardians.

Blackdeath.2607:

Dh traits are a pretty in good shape now except for defenders dogma.

I know there’s issues with bow on puncture shot , true shot and hunters ward cast being a bit too slow and a few traits that dont seem to work very well with Dh such as retribution from the radiance trait line. Those however are more under the lines of minor fixes needed to be done. 8/9 professions have something one doesn’t is a balance issue and trumps minor fixes by a long shot in priority.

Rune of the traveler was never a real option in the 1st place, i did spend 2 hours in the beta weekend testing the difference between scholar and traveler the damage loss caused by using traveler runes was over 20%, where true shot would crit a target for 15k with travelers runes it crits for 11k this is why travelers runes will never be a viable option for us.

The root to true shot is really only a pain because we were already slow before, however its flawed that we cant use dodge whilst true shot is casting. Overall a passive run speed trait will do more for us then removing the root to true shot which is why removing the root to true is probably the lowest priority fix needed at the moment.
(what i mean by this comment is hitting dodge whilst true shot is casting wont cancel the cast and dodge the attack continues to cast, having to cancel true shots cast then use dodge is a bit lame)

A fix to puncture shot however is probably the 2nd highest priority in order of fixes/changes needed as the bounce requirement is beyond stupid and ruins the usefulness of the attack a great deal.

I like everyone hates the long cast time on hunters ward but i dont see it being changed as of yet.

As for defenders dogma it would be very difficult for the devs to change this to something else apart from a passive run speed trait without giving Dh too much, possibly 25% run speed whilst wielding ranged weapons may feel too weak for the minor slot defenders dogma uses but it results in giving us something we both need and want without giving the trait line too much.

heavy light defiantly is too weak for a grand master trait and should probably have dulled sense merged into it to make it a more worthy of a gm trait as it does compete with big game hunter but doesn’t come close to it.

So you think adding 20% CD reduction to longbow skills on heavy light would fix the trait?

sadly no a 20% CD reduction for longbow skills would be rather overpowered for us despite hunters ward CD being rather long. still any change to heavy light will be well welcomed by all.

20% CD reduction lb skills could be made balanced by making it exclude true shot, it would be rather detrimental for guards for true shots CD to be increased to allow for a 20% CD reduction trait.

Another option could be to make heavy light reduce the cool down on hunters ward on top of its current effect.

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Really nice changes but the current virtue mechanics are really bad. Especially f3, having that interupted puts it on a full 75s CD without getting any of the virtue benefits, and the same with f2, it gets put on full CD without the heal/regen. Maybe make f3 instant cast and f2 an evade while leaping that would help with the DH sustain alot.

Can we have this addressed too before launch? This is a serious issue and is something that put quite the frowny face on me during BWE3. 2/3 of our entire class mechanic should not go down the drain just because we were unlucky enough to get randomly interrupted.

Naru’s fixes here for our f2 are great. For our f3 I might add: Let the stun break, and stability (traited) on our f3 come instantly. The stability should last 0.25 seconds longer to account for cast time. Then, we spend 0.25 seconds casting before the shield actually appears.

These changes to our f2 and f3 would still maintain the whole “virtues need to be casted” theme while making them balanced. Honestly, these virtues don’t deserve to be interruptible, or else they should go on a 3-4 second cooldown (which they don’t). So please make it so that either they have a 3-4s interruptible cooldown, or are not interruptible. Take your pick ANET

Blackdeath.2607:

sadly no a 20% CD reduction for longbow skills would be rather overpowered for us despite hunters ward CD being rather long. still any change to heavy light will be well welcomed by all.

20% CD reduction lb skills could be made balanced by making it exclude true shot, it would be rather detrimental for guards for true shots CD to be increased to allow for a 20% CD reduction trait.

Another option could be to make heavy light reduce the cool down on hunters ward on top of its current effect.

Frankly given how laughably easy hunters ward is to evade out of or simply ignore via stability/teleport they should just change it.

Having it shoot out a cone attack that immobilizes any enemy it hits would be perfect for the skill.
It would also be possible to put on a much shorter CD.

Looking at Hammer it does something quite similar (Just in a line) and it only has a 12 second cool down.

So depending on how wide & fast moving you want the cone to be it could be anywhere between 12-45 seconds for a CD.

Fantastic changes all around, great work Karl!

The only other things I could wish for would be a leap finisher on Wings of Resolve (always about that light and fire aura life) and putting some thought into the damage reduction on hunter’s fortification being made constant, there’s so many conditions from autoattacks and aoe’s that it’s very sporadic and won’t even be active when you actually need it when immobilized or soft cc’d. And we’re talking about a GM trait.

Tether with damage overtime.
Pull when activating.

Choronomancer with ability to reset time.
The monky Tonic.

Smite anyone? Kappa

Arcaedus.7290:

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Really nice changes but the current virtue mechanics are really bad. Especially f3, having that interupted puts it on a full 75s CD without getting any of the virtue benefits, and the same with f2, it gets put on full CD without the heal/regen. Maybe make f3 instant cast and f2 an evade while leaping that would help with the DH sustain alot.

Can we have this addressed too before launch? This is a serious issue and is something that put quite the frowny face on me during BWE3. 2/3 of our entire class mechanic should not go down the drain just because we were unlucky enough to get randomly interrupted.

Naru’s fixes here for our f2 are great. For our f3 I might add: Let the stun break, and stability (traited) on our f3 come instantly. The stability should last 0.25 seconds longer to account for cast time. Then, we spend 0.25 seconds casting before the shield actually appears.

These changes to our f2 and f3 would still maintain the whole “virtues need to be casted” theme while making them balanced. Honestly, these virtues don’t deserve to be interruptible, or else they should go on a 3-4 second cooldown (which they don’t). So please make it so that either they have a 3-4s interruptible cooldown, or are not interruptible. Take your pick ANET

well said Arcaedus couldn’t agree with you more there.

Jeez I don’t even get the perpetual uproar over not having a 25% move speed buff. Sure it’s bothersome at times, but it’s never been a huge deal, imo.

Another thing is having our virtues turned into physical skills (i.e. Thief and Warrior)…

My question is if DH provides access to Cripple a new conditon for guardians why is their no minor at all that helps apply this?

I believe most of us are unhappy to some extend with DH’s minor traits. What I propose is as DH introduces Cripple make Dulled Senses & Zealot’s Aggression DH minors. This is then:

“Hey Guardian’s look selecting DH elite provides access to Cripple & gives you the option of equiping Longbow &/or Traps.”

Which I must say feels alot better the what current DH minors do. Work Pure of Sight & Defender’s Dogma back into major traits.

Is there any way to pick up the traps you laid to reduce the CD on it ?
Similar to engineer and it’s turrets, it should be possible to pick it up, because traps have to be laid on feet, it should have a compensation when taking wells and other AOEs into account.

Blackdeath.2607:

lack of a 25% run speed trait for guards is really a deal breaker at this point. Anyone who is actually interested in balance between professions can see that if 8/9 have it already there is no issue in 9/9 having it.

The reason we don’t have a 25% RS trait/skill is exactly because of balance and relation to the profession concept.

Arcaedus.7290:

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Really nice changes but the current virtue mechanics are really bad. Especially f3, having that interupted puts it on a full 75s CD without getting any of the virtue benefits, and the same with f2, it gets put on full CD without the heal/regen. Maybe make f3 instant cast and f2 an evade while leaping that would help with the DH sustain alot.

Can we have this addressed too before launch? This is a serious issue and is something that put quite the frowny face on me during BWE3. 2/3 of our entire class mechanic should not go down the drain just because we were unlucky enough to get randomly interrupted.

Naru’s fixes here for our f2 are great. For our f3 I might add: Let the stun break, and stability (traited) on our f3 come instantly. The stability should last 0.25 seconds longer to account for cast time. Then, we spend 0.25 seconds casting before the shield actually appears.

These changes to our f2 and f3 would still maintain the whole “virtues need to be casted” theme while making them balanced. Honestly, these virtues don’t deserve to be interruptible, or else they should go on a 3-4 second cooldown (which they don’t). So please make it so that either they have a 3-4s interruptible cooldown, or are not interruptible. Take your pick ANET

I find it funny when people complain about interrupts. It’s always the ability being bad, and not whoever they’re facing being skillful at interrupting key skills. Yes they go on full CD but that goes for any skill that has any effect before finishing its cast.

Obtena.7952:

Blackdeath.2607:

lack of a 25% run speed trait for guards is really a deal breaker at this point. Anyone who is actually interested in balance between professions can see that if 8/9 have it already there is no issue in 9/9 having it.

The reason we don’t have a 25% RS trait/skill is exactly because of balance and relation to the profession concept.

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

Greetings

Jimmy

JimmydT.7281:

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

You’ve got that entirely turned around. In which playmode to Guardians perform so badly they need a buff?

Oh. None of them.

I like these changes especially hunter’s verdict. I thought that was a great idea and kept promoting it. (I forget who I first saw suggest it)

but I have a question about the fragments of faith change being a stun breaker now…
I had seen people asking for this to be added to traps and now its on one, but I don’t see this being very useful.

So you would need to lay down a trap and then hope the enemy happens to step on it after they’ve CC’d you, but before it wears off on its own? Am I missing something? it seems like there’d be very few instances where this would actually save you..

same with the healing trap. you have to lay down the trap and hope the enemy steps on it right when you need to heal. not too soon, not too late…

overall great changes. I’ve been excited to play the DH at release, but now even more so.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Arcaedus.7290:

NotoriousNaru.1705:

Really nice changes but the current virtue mechanics are really bad. Especially f3, having that interupted puts it on a full 75s CD without getting any of the virtue benefits, and the same with f2, it gets put on full CD without the heal/regen. Maybe make f3 instant cast and f2 an evade while leaping that would help with the DH sustain alot.

Can we have this addressed too before launch? This is a serious issue and is something that put quite the frowny face on me during BWE3. 2/3 of our entire class mechanic should not go down the drain just because we were unlucky enough to get randomly interrupted.

Naru’s fixes here for our f2 are great. For our f3 I might add: Let the stun break, and stability (traited) on our f3 come instantly. The stability should last 0.25 seconds longer to account for cast time. Then, we spend 0.25 seconds casting before the shield actually appears.

These changes to our f2 and f3 would still maintain the whole “virtues need to be casted” theme while making them balanced. Honestly, these virtues don’t deserve to be interruptible, or else they should go on a 3-4 second cooldown (which they don’t). So please make it so that either they have a 3-4s interruptible cooldown, or are not interruptible. Take your pick ANET

I find it funny when people complain about interrupts. It’s always the ability being bad, and not whoever they’re facing being skillful at interrupting key skills. Yes they go on full CD but that goes for any skill that has any effect before finishing its cast.

Why are you here? You clearly haven’t played guard and don’t understand the importance of virtues successfully going off. You’re prob one of those people who think the dh virtues are better than the standard ones.

rajule.8054:

I like these changes especially hunter’s verdict. I thought that was a great idea and kept promoting it. (I forget who I first saw suggest it)

but I have a question about the fragments of faith change being a stun breaker now…
I had seen people asking for this to be added to traps and now its on one, but I don’t see this being very useful.

So you would need to lay down a trap and then hope the enemy happens to step on it after they’ve CC’d you, but before it wears off on its own? Am I missing something? it seems like there’d be very few instances where this would actually save you..

same with the healing trap. you have to lay down the trap and hope the enemy steps on it right when you need to heal. not too soon, not too late…

overall great changes. I’ve been excited to play the DH at release, but now even more so.

Fragments of Faith is instant and now a stunbreaker. What would happen is if you are Stunned, you press Fragments of Faith just like you would press Contemplation of Purity, and it will break Stun for you. It will also place a FoF Trap at your feet, which does not activate unless there is a foe that triggers it. Once it triggers, you gain 3 stacks of Stability for 5s, the foe is damaged and Crippled, and Fragments drop on the ground.

Now, I am not sure(we need clarification from Karl) how the Trap provides the new boons.

Do you need to be standing in the Trap to get the boons once a foe triggers it?

If yes, Do your allies also get boons if they are standing on the Trap or just you?

If no, Do you get the boons no matter where you are as long as a foe triggers the Trap?

Does Hunter’s Determination break stun as well? What is the cooldown on it?

rajule.8054:

but I have a question about the fragments of faith change being a stun breaker now…
I had seen people asking for this to be added to traps and now its on one, but I don’t see this being very useful.

So you would need to lay down a trap and then hope the enemy happens to step on it after they’ve CC’d you, but before it wears off on its own? Am I missing something? it seems like there’d be very few instances where this would actually save you..

You are missing something . It’s instant cast and stun breaks on placement, not on triggering.

And we have a trait that causes us to cast it when we get CCd -> stun break and drops the trap which if they are in close instantly cripples, gives you stability, and scatters aegis pellets (working name) all over the place.

same with the healing trap. you have to lay down the trap and hope the enemy steps on it right when you need to heal. not too soon, not too late…

That one certainly works better if you’re in melee or on point, but if someone is trying to range you you’ve already got a pretty strong position. If you’re getting stomped in a ranged duel, run, drop the trap in a chokepoint, and keep running.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Now, I am not sure(we need clarification from Karl) how the Trap provides the new boons.

Do you need to be standing in the Trap to get the boons once a foe triggers it?

If yes, Do your allies also get boons if they are standing on the Trap or just you?

If no, Do you get the boons no matter where you are as long as a foe triggers the Trap?

Does Hunter’s Determination break stun as well? What is the cooldown on it?

Purification is likely the model here: only you get the boons, but you get them at any distance from the trap when it is triggered.

Hunter’s determination wouldn’t break the stun, but the trap it casts does (fine distinction, I realize). This is basically a direct answer to the problem we were seeing with the trait during BWE3 than you could get CC’d and burned down stuck in the middle of a field of aegis pellets you couldn’t move to pick up.

Nike.2631:

rajule.8054:

but I have a question about the fragments of faith change being a stun breaker now…
I had seen people asking for this to be added to traps and now its on one, but I don’t see this being very useful.

So you would need to lay down a trap and then hope the enemy happens to step on it after they’ve CC’d you, but before it wears off on its own? Am I missing something? it seems like there’d be very few instances where this would actually save you..

You are missing something . It’s instant cast and stun breaks on placement, not on triggering.

And we have a trait that causes us to cast it when we get CCd -> stun break and drops the trap which if they are in close instantly cripples, gives you stability, and scatters aegis pellets (working name) all over the place.

same with the healing trap. you have to lay down the trap and hope the enemy steps on it right when you need to heal. not too soon, not too late…

That one certainly works better if you’re in melee or on point, but if someone is trying to range you you’ve already got a pretty strong position. If you’re getting stomped in a ranged duel, run, drop the trap in a chokepoint, and keep running.

aah I see, yeah I didn’t register the “its instant cast now” part. now it makes sense.

thanks for clearing that up guys.

Lol, so what if you have hunter’s determination which drops fragments of faith trap when you get stunned? Are you basically going to ignore the CC and drop the trap whenever you get stunned (granted the trait isn’t on cooldown)

rajule.8054:

Lol, so what if you have hunter’s determination which drops fragments of faith trap when you get stunned? Are you basically going to ignore the CC and drop the trap whenever you get stunned (granted the trait isn’t on cooldown)

Yup!

Nike.2631:

rajule.8054:

Lol, so what if you have hunter’s determination which drops fragments of faith trap when you get stunned? Are you basically going to ignore the CC and drop the trap whenever you get stunned (granted the trait isn’t on cooldown)

Yup!

And not just that, but the stability and aegis access you’d have. And then when you have FoF already slotted? Lots of stability, lots of aegis (potential for aegis traits to shine)

Man, thats a tough call.. for a long time I’ve been running with SYG and SY for the stun breaks and stability, but maybe on DH I can swap that for FoF instead.. and hunter’s determination is very tempting too, though during bwe3 I was using zealots aggression to stack damage multipliers and loving it..

its nice to have more options though.

JimmydT.7281:

Obtena.7952:

Blackdeath.2607:

lack of a 25% run speed trait for guards is really a deal breaker at this point. Anyone who is actually interested in balance between professions can see that if 8/9 have it already there is no issue in 9/9 having it.

The reason we don’t have a 25% RS trait/skill is exactly because of balance and relation to the profession concept.

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

Greetings

Jimmy

I don’t claim .. Anet has told us in a Ready Up episode.

Nike.2631:

JimmydT.7281:

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

You’ve got that entirely turned around. In which playmode to Guardians perform so badly they need a buff?

Oh. None of them.

… and this too. There is no logic behind the argument that we should have something because it wouldn’t make us OPed. I’m no dev, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how they justify profession toolsets. Besides, as some intelligent people have already pointed out … if you did get a 25% RS buff, why the hell would you want it stuck in an elite spec? That’s nonsense.

Could add something like “gain 25% movement speed ONLY when out of combat.” in a trait. This would have no impact in combat, but wouldn’t be a pain anymore to move around. In this way we could have finally use another rune set.

Nike.2631:

JimmydT.7281:

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

You’ve got that entirely turned around. In which playmode to Guardians perform so badly they need a buff?

Oh. None of them.

Nope, i didnt. Maybe you are missunderstanding me.

Your argument:

Guardians are viable in any game mode (good spot^^), so they will get no 25% MS buff.
But mesmers were viable in every game mode too (for the last month). There is no problem of any mesmerbuild in PVE, which is solved with more speed. In WvW and PvP mesmer werent underpowered at all and Chronomancer seems to be pretty strong in these gamemodes anyway. So why did mesmers get the 25% MS (with chronomancer)? I think, your way of argumentation isnt viable.

In PVE the movement trait is really only a qol feature. Running faster, skipping mobs, wielding another weapon but staff and taking something else for “Retreat”.
No other profession will rage because of guardians can run with them at the same speed.

In WVW-Zergs it isnt really a big thing, you can have swiftness for month if u like.

WVW-Roaming and smallscale fights its nice to have. Here guardians would have a more options for their rune set besides speed or traveler runes (because mobility is really important here). But guardians are really not known as the best roamers, because of their lack of mobility and disengages. This maybe will change with dh (trapper runes).

In PVP Dragonhunters is considered as one of the weaker specializations and seems to fall behind the “original” guardian too. My argumentation about the strengths of DH in PVP is based on the forum feedback of the Beta-weekend (overall, not only guardains) and my own expierience made in beta.

So, giving DH 25% MS would bring a little boost for roaming and PVP. It would not be gamebreaking and there are very little arguments against it beside of “We dont need it”, a phrase you can also tell any mesmer, warrior, whatever. They dont NEED it either.

And then every class has the choice of running a bit faster. Sounds fair!

BTW: Best thing imo would be to remove all the 25% MS traits and replace by mechanics, which provide mobility based on swiftness. This boon becomes more and more laughable, when everybody is running so fast. But this will never happen, i think.

Greetings

Jimmy

Obtena.7952:

JimmydT.7281:

Obtena.7952:

Blackdeath.2607:

lack of a 25% run speed trait for guards is really a deal breaker at this point. Anyone who is actually interested in balance between professions can see that if 8/9 have it already there is no issue in 9/9 having it.

The reason we don’t have a 25% RS trait/skill is exactly because of balance and relation to the profession concept.

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

Greetings

Jimmy

I don’t claim .. Anet has told us in a Ready Up episode.

This is true for core guardians and i can accept that for several reasons. But the ready up was made way before the DH was revealed afaik (pls correct me, if im wrong, … but i think, i remember right). DH can be played in another way than normal guardians (kiting etc.), so this argument cant count for the specialization.

Obtena.7952:

Nike.2631:

JimmydT.7281:

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

You’ve got that entirely turned around. In which playmode to Guardians perform so badly they need a buff?

Oh. None of them.

… and this too. There is no logic behind the argument that we should have something because it wouldn’t make us OPed. I’m no dev, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how they justify profession toolsets. Besides, as some intelligent people have already pointed out … if you did get a 25% RS buff, why the hell would you want it stuck in an elite spec? That’s nonsense.

They did it with chronomacers, … why not with dh?

Obtena.7952:

JimmydT.7281:

Obtena.7952:

Blackdeath.2607:

lack of a 25% run speed trait for guards is really a deal breaker at this point. Anyone who is actually interested in balance between professions can see that if 8/9 have it already there is no issue in 9/9 having it.

The reason we don’t have a 25% RS trait/skill is exactly because of balance and relation to the profession concept.

Mhh, some here say, its only a qol thing to have this 25% MS. You claim, its because of balance that we dont get one. Could you please explain, in which gamemode dh would become op with 25% MS? I cant see this!

Greetings

Jimmy

I don’t claim .. Anet has told us in a Ready Up episode.

I think pvp has more than probed, Anet has little idea about what it really takes to balance this game.

I don’t think addition of an elite spec changes anything they said WAY back when. Even if the argument doesn’t count for the specialization, I haven’t seen any reason that the specialization needs the 25% RS more than the base Guardian profession itself. I would argue it needs it less.

Apolo.5942:

I think pvp has more than probed, Anet has little idea about what it really takes to balance this game.

That isn’t really relevant. Whether you think Anet knows or not, they hold the levers and if you want certain levers flipped, you might want to change your attitude. Think about how what you just said sounds:

“Hey Anet, you’re clueless so you should just give up and give players everything they have been asking for, because it’s going to be the most balanced ideas ever!”

UM HUM.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think addition of an elite spec changes anything they said WAY back when. Even if the argument doesn’t count for the specialization, I haven’t seen any reason that the specialization needs the 25% RS more than the base Guardian profession itself. I would argue it needs it less.

Apolo.5942:

I think pvp has more than probed, Anet has little idea about what it really takes to balance this game.

That isn’t really relevant. Whether you think Anet knows or not, they hold the levers and if you want certain levers flipped, you might want to change your attitude. Think about how what you just said sounds:

“Hey Anet, you’re clueless so you should just give up and give players everything they have been asking for, because it’s going to be the most balanced ideas ever!”

UM HUM.

Dont get me wrong. I dont say, we need the 25% MS in any case. If you have read my longer post above, u will know that i think, none profession should have one of those.
But in my opinion there is no point, where DHs would benefit in an inappropriate way from such a trait. This would mean a balanced-based “NO” for 25% MS. But thats not the case.
The argument “We dont need it” is not viable, when you look at other professions. Warriors dont NEED it (could use warhorn), chronomancers dont NEED it, but they got it. Thats my only point.
And i agree with you: We really dont NEED it, too. I personally will be fine roaming with trapper runes and its superspeed. And im ok with having no 25% MS in PVPas a bunker-guard. But it would be nice to have in some other situations, with no bigger balance issues. So why not? Other professions got it also while it was not NEEDED!

Last thing i want to say about that:

All the swiftness-related things, guardians can works with are put in the honor-traitline. Thats kinda poor. So u are kinda stuck to that very supportive line, when u want to get them work at their full purpose. I would like to see a way to get swiftness outside of shouts and staff. I know, we got now one with the trap, but this is not very reliable.

Sorry for my “not-so-well-structured” text! Despite of this, I really hope you understand, what i mean.

Hf

Jimmy

P.S.: I do think the elite spec changes the things that were mentioned in the ready up. The spec is changing our whole class mechanics, thats not a small change. Balancing around the elite spec is a whole new thing. So these things should be discussed again in my opinion.

Karl McLain.5604:

Puncture Shot: We’re also looking at the base and bounce functionality

Karl McLain: Do you have anything that you want to share with us about the PS bounce functionality before launch? or any incoming changes to the Longbow in general

JimmydT.7281:

The argument “We dont need it” is not viable, when you look at other professions. Warriors dont NEED it (could use warhorn), chronomancers dont NEED it, but they got it. Thats my only point.

I think you confuse my point. It’s not about need, it’s about what the profession concept is. That’s based on what Anet has told us why we don’t get RS passive buff. You are correct … the need argument doesn’t make sense because it would mean everyone BUT Guardians need a passive RS trait/skill. I don’t see that either, so Anet’s reasoning isn’t about need.

remove the stability on heavy light and replace it with 20% cd reduction to LB skills

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think addition of an elite spec changes anything they said WAY back when. Even if the argument doesn’t count for the specialization, I haven’t seen any reason that the specialization needs the 25% RS more than the base Guardian profession itself. I would argue it needs it less.

Apolo.5942:

I think pvp has more than probed, Anet has little idea about what it really takes to balance this game.

That isn’t really relevant. Whether you think Anet knows or not, they hold the levers and if you want certain levers flipped, you might want to change your attitude. Think about how what you just said sounds:

“Hey Anet, you’re clueless so you should just give up and give players everything they have been asking for, because it’s going to be the most balanced ideas ever!”

UM HUM.

Lets see, why dont you make a historic read of every problem stated on the pvp forum?, it esentially 3-4 months later they recognize it and 6-12 months after that they come up with something tangentially related to what the forum stated was the solution.
Thus their track record and thus why i dont honestly give a unicorn if they get offended by stating plain to see facts.

This is been a known issue for YEARS now, time for treading softly is over.

Does Dulled Sense even work with anything except Hammer of Wisdom(nonactive), Shield of Absorbtion, Heavy Light and Downed 2. Ring/Line of Warding, Hammer of Wisdom(active) and Bane Signet are knockdowns, Hammer 4 is a Launch. This is all according to the wiki. Does knockback in the Dulled Senses trait mean the effect knockback? The wiki has it linked from the trait to the knockback effect page. Couldn’t find anything using the search function before you ask, so sorry if this has been asked before. I got to tell you if this is the case then Dulled Senses is pretty terrible. Only one of those skills is on a weapon and one utility(semi-random), trait is RNG and one is while you are downed.

Anyone got clarification on this?

Noctis.3426:

Karl McLain.5604:

Puncture Shot: We’re also looking at the base and bounce functionality

Karl McLain: Do you have anything that you want to share with us about the PS bounce functionality before launch? or any incoming changes to the Longbow in general

I’ve been wondering about this as well. It seems like Karl said it would be “looked into”, but he never actually addressed whether or not that actually happened, and what the rationale would be if they’ve just decided not to bother changing it.

@Varathiel:
This is a post for someone who tested it in the BWE1

Yes, its triggered by wards / sanctuary. Those are considered knockbacks. Wards can even trigger it multiple times, assuming you’re fighting an opponent dumb enough to run into it that much (AKA during PvE).

I don’t think its triggered by Maw since that’s considered a pull instead of a knockback (same with Binding Blades).

I believe the full list of things that can trigger Dulled Sense would be…

Ring of Warding
Line of Warding
Hunter’s Ward
Sanctuary
Banish
Traited Longbow attacks with Heavy Light
Shield of Absorption

Hammer of Justice doesn’t work with it ATM. Unclear if its a bug or if its because its technically not the Guardian causing the knockback, but either way I’d love to see it changed so that it did work with HoJ.

I would also be all in favor of it working on pulls as well (which would allow it to work with Dragon’s Maw, Binding Blade, and Spear’s Wrathful Grasp), as getting more options to proc the trait would be appreciated. Heck, I’d almost suggest making it work on any interrupt ability in general sort of like Lightning Rod on Elementalist, which would allow it to work in addition with Weight of Justice, Bane Signet, Wave of Light as well.

Dulled Sense should work with any form of CC than guardians can offer(Pull, Knockback, Knockdown and Launch), to make it viable

Apolo.5942:

Lets see, why dont you make a historic read of every problem stated on the pvp forum?, it esentially 3-4 months later they recognize it and 6-12 months after that they come up with something tangentially related to what the forum stated was the solution.
Thus their track record and thus why i dont honestly give a unicorn if they get offended by stating plain to see facts.

This is been a known issue for YEARS now, time for treading softly is over.

You’re not thinking about what I have said; I’m not implying you shouldn’t keep trying to make a case for getting RS, no matter how futile it might be or how long it would take to get implemented. I am implying that if you (and others) are serious about having this changed, you don’t insult the people you’re trying to convince to change it; insults are not compelling reasons for change. The devs explained that class concept is why we DON’T have it so if you want it, an argument based on the concept is the only way I see that will make sense to the devs.

Frankly, the idea that a hunter who’s lying in wait for their prey with a LB, setting traps and using range to their advantage needs 25% RS to compete is ridiculous IMO. The RS issue is a GUARDIAN one, not a DH one. I’m all for some kind of RS passive trait/skill because giving people choice is a fair approach.

Mikau.6920:

Could add something like “gain 25% movement speed ONLY when out of combat.” in a trait. This would have no impact in combat, but wouldn’t be a pain anymore to move around. In this way we could have finally use another rune set.

This is certainly more likely that a universal speed buff, because it’s impact is smaller. But in both of the game’s competitive moves (sPvP and WvW) overland out-of-combat speed is directly tied to scoring, so it still has non-trivial value.

A passive speed boost would be really nice, don’t get me wrong (really, really nice ). My preference is that it be positioned in a way all Guardians get access to it and in a way where it is a fair trade-off against what we’re already capable of now.

Hopefully something equitable can be worked out .

JimmydT.7281:

They did it with chronomacers, … why not with dh?

Mesmers already have a passive speed buff. It’s not quite 25% but signet of inspiration pulses swiftness with a base up-time of 50%.

Classes are defined by their weaknesses and their strengths and of the two usually the weakness give more texture to the experience. The lack of passive speed buff is one of the Guardian’s defining characteristics. Right now the workaround price is all 6 of your rune slots. If we get another way expect the price tag to be equally steep.

Nike.2631:

JimmydT.7281:

They did it with chronomacers, … why not with dh?

Mesmers already have a passive speed buff. It’s not quite 25% but signet of inspiration pulses swiftness with a base up-time of 50%.

Classes are defined by their weaknesses and their strengths and of the two usually the weakness give more texture to the experience. The lack of passive speed buff is one of the Guardian’s defining characteristics. Right now the workaround price is all 6 of your rune slots. If we get another way expect the price tag to be equally steep.

Frankly since they insist on not giving everyone a 25% run speed increase (really only refuse to give it to guardians at this point)

I feel its time they add more rune choices that give the run speed increase.

Something that gives + condition damage & another that gives + power would be greatly appreciated.

Doesn’t really matter whether a core guard or DH guard needs a 25% passive run speed trait more/less.

The only trait line that actually has any room for this addition is the dragon hunter trait line by replacing defenders dogma with a 25% passive run speed trait.

Mesmers and rangers new passive run speed traits were put into the elite traits lines to make such a addition a balanced trade off, which is another reason for it to be put in the dragon hunter trait line should the Dev’s decide to implement it.

on different subject now tho.

Hunter’s Fortification while the damage reduction is decent “on block” mechanics are terrible and in a way they promote being hit, at the moment this is a rather horrible trait for healer/support or tank builds. Maybe change this to remove a condition every 15secs, or since traps now provide a boon when triggered allow this trait to provide the boons to allies as well when traps are triggered. While healer/support builds may not use traps it would at least make traps a option.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

I feel its time they add more rune choices that give the run speed increase.

Something that gives + condition damage & another that gives + power would be greatly appreciated.

I agree completely.