Guild Wars 2

CD Changes are whatever, but the re-arrangement aspect perplexes me.

Not sure I get this.
If they move the symbol to skill 4 then people won’t leap into retaliation because they are too lazy? :p

I’m happy I went back to my Warrior.
Guardian has too many meh traits, traits that need merging, no viable ranged weaponry… I really WANTED to love it, but I see them concentrating only on the sPvP so I’m sticking to Warrior until this class gets finished.
I can’t be bothered to re-learn my class at every patch like I did in WoW with the Paladin, nor be continuously twisted between roles (nerf dmg buff defense, nerf defense buff dmg, nerf ret, buff ret, nerf ret again)…

The order was changed because, as a rule, weapon skills are arranged in order of cooldown. It always increases from lowest cooldown to highest, so the order was changed to reflect the different relative cooldowns of the skills.

I can imagine how muscle memory is going to mess with some people after this, but you’ll adjust. Probably won’t even take a couple days to get used to the new layout.

Well this is a nice buff for Warriors, Rogues and Mesmers as Retaliation was a nice consequence for their various abilities. GJ on nerfing a balanced class and helping 3 classes that don’t need it.

The problem is that the changed it for continuities sake; all other weapons have skills ordered by cooldown amount. That’s why it changed.

I welcome a nerf to symbol no problem. Using GS from level 2… 550 hours. 40k WvW kills.. Change layout.. Stupid even if it follows the “pattern” of skill setup like most weapons.

Alot of casual players probably just got comfortable using this layout.

Harvest.2506:

Good Thing I play with a Keypad Razer Nostrodomu on my left Hand I’ll just Rearrange this 13425 back to 12345 Easy Fix For me LOLOLOl

Which is fine if we only used greatswords. If I do what you suggested, then my sword / shield bar will be different. Either way it is jacked up.

Hopefully this will be us for a few weeks now, they’ve nerfed a trait, ret on a number of things (this week and last week), so here is hoping they leave us alone for a bit.

I’m not sure I particularly like this change — and I especially don’t like the random re-jiggering of the skills to different hotkeys.

As far as Symbol Of Wrath goes… Isn’t the self-root when you use it a big enough limitation already? It makes it fairly difficult to land the initial attack successfully — and any halfway decent player is going to be out of the area of effect before it ticks more than once or twice.

Even if you’re using it in conjunction with some kind of cripple or immobilize (or with the pull of the greatsword #5), it’s not doing huge amounts of damage that aren’t avoidable. Either way, it’s not something you can chase anyone with — which makes it rather lackluster in sPvP and WvW.

If the problem is the non-stop retaliation it provides, how’s about removing that from the skill entirely? Keep the same recharge and burn effects and so on and allow players to combo for retaliation if they want to?

Either way, can we get the keys back to where they were. Futzing with stats is one thing, but there are a lot of players who’ve been playing for over a month know who are going to have to retrain their muscle memory — just because.

why can’t we rearrange the weapon skills in the first place?

EDIT: forgot to mention: noob update

@ Relentliss.2170 (Since quoting isn’t working.)

Now you’re just being silly. Nerfing retaliation isn’t a buff to mesmers, warriors, or thieves. The boon doesn’t punish them any more than it punishes, say, rangers. Let’s be objective and not complain about things that aren’t actually problems.

I don’t care if you change cooldowns but the “reorganization” of skills is completely stupid. I don’t care whether or not if they’re in order of CD or not, are you going to do this EVERYTIME you adjust sometimes CD? How about we institute hard-mode? Where all your skills change everytime you swap to a weapon, your auto attack now could be 5!

“Improve combos” What an absolute fluff reason for moving the skills around.

I’ll just be going with this for a while I guess:

Most of what I would say has been said already. I just want to leave a note in case Anet are reading these. The skill bar swapping is very annoying and was unneeded. You are now throwing off every player that has trained themselves on the original order. Sure we could change our key bindings but this would then messed them up for all the other weapons…. I really have to wonder WHY?

I’m so confused Its actually 14235 now ugh, anyways seishrio key-pad macros have a button for changing presets so i can go back to normal 12345 for other weapons sets But its still annoying cause I’ll have to press that extra button which would make or break me.

Dalmar.1358:

I agree that the change to the keys on Greatsword is quite annoying. Why not give us the abililty to assign whatever keys we want to whatever attacks/abilities we have available to us?

lol you
HAVE that already.. You can map it anyway you want.. come on man, you gotta know that..

I understand the change to the skills themselves, but why would you put the lowest cooldown ability on the most awkward key (2 key). If your going to change things like this at least give us the option of arranging the weapon abilities in the order we want.

Greatsword was OP before the patch. I still wish it was, but lets be honest with ourselves now.

Its AoE was off the chart and i had no reason to use any other weapon except a scepter offhand for ranged. I know I will get flamed for this, and I loved the power of the GS, but i always knew it wouldn’t last.

Its still ridiculously strong and ill probably keep using one.

Lysico.4906:

Dalmar.1358:

I agree that the change to the keys on Greatsword is quite annoying. Why not give us the abililty to assign whatever keys we want to whatever attacks/abilities we have available to us?

lol you
HAVE that already.. You can map it anyway you want.. come on man, you gotta know that..

Except you are changing the bindings fore very other weapon too.

/facepalm

A couple things bother me about this change:

1. The intention of removing perma-Retal from the metagame is understandable. However, I don’t think doubling the recharge on Symbol of Wrath is the most elegant or useful way to go about it, unless their intention was also to reduce Greatsword functionality. Symbol of Wrath is a mainstay of Guardian damage and Guardian combos. It’s not going to be quite a problem in PVP (which is where perma-Retal tends to make the most difference) because Symbols are so static and limited in size. In PVE, though, Symbol of Wrath has group utility in the form of combo fields, and is also the one powerful link between Greatsword and Zeal (which includes Greatsword Traits and Symbol traits). Without a reliable symbol in Greatsword, Zeal isn’t really an attractive Trait line for Greatsword.

1. The reduced cooldown on Leap of Faith is nice. It’s our only Leap finisher of every weapon we have, so shaving an additional five seconds off (eight, with a trait) is significant. However, if they really want to improve Combo Finisher functionality, we should take a second look at Scepter for a Projectile finisher and Sword for another Leap finisher.

1. I’ve always loved Signet of Judgment. It is, in my opinion, underrated. However, the change seems incredibly inelegant and will punish players who haven’t read the patch notes thoroughly. Essentially, this change makes it so that Signet of Judgment will always apply 3 seconds of Retaliation—not 5—even if a player takes Vengeance (a trait which improves Retaliation by 25%). This is going to be reported as a bug by hundreds of players who don’t know the notes and shouldn’t be expected to grasp an unintuitive change.

If they really wanted to make perma-Retaliation inviable, they’re better off removing the Vengeance trait and making it do something else, and changing the functionality—rather than the Recharge—of Symbol of Wrath.

The problem 99% of us have isn’t the nerf, it’s the skill rearrangement.

Lysico.4906:

Dalmar.1358:

I agree that the change to the keys on Greatsword is quite annoying. Why not give us the abililty to assign whatever keys we want to whatever attacks/abilities we have available to us?

lol you
HAVE that already.. You can map it anyway you want.. come on man, you gotta know that..

He means change what skill appears in each box, we can map keys to any skill we want BUT doing that messes up other skills on other weapons.

Lysico.4906:

Dalmar.1358:

I agree that the change to the keys on Greatsword is quite annoying. Why not give us the abililty to assign whatever keys we want to whatever attacks/abilities we have available to us?

lol you
HAVE that already.. You can map it anyway you want.. come on man, you gotta know that..

That would change the keybindings for all of our weapons. He means to re-bind for each individual weapon, which is not available.

…I knew I wasn’t crazy; I was trying to rush somewhere and went to LoF and I froze in place doing SoW instead o.o
Not happy about this; feels completely wack. Completely unneeded change. >.<

Actually the retaliation is a big deal… (Pve didn’t really matter because mobs to slow or inconsistent (unless u use symbols for vulnerability etc (which this also nerfs then.) Longer CD only makes it even more useless. In pvp its effect is important so this does matter. It makes no sense… Id rather have to manually pop it like a virtue or aegis if had to then have this stupid cd… They really are just making this class a kittened warrior every nerf…

Leap of Faith back to 4, and I’m happy. It’s tedious to move my finger from W (move forward) to 3. I get that it’s in order of recharge time, but still! Just change the times and put it back to the original order. =( Or just make it so we can rearrange the skills like we do with Utility skills. That does make so much more sense!

I knew the front page would be filled with nothing but greatsword outrage. I don’t use one, but I’m sorry you guys lost out on your build. I’m dreading the day my block build gets nerfed too…

There is no synergy what so ever, i really HATE this change. The combo fields feels really akward.
Change it back ASAP, Anet!

Terrible design choice. Please we beg you take it back.

Being able to rearrange our skills or even install mods would make me so much more okay with these unnecessary changes.

^ What he said. I don’t mind the nerf at all. What pisses me off is re-arranging the skills. There is absolutely no reason to do that. Especially more than 1 month after launch.

Pfft a nerf to one build lol… Which does effect symbol usage if people trait for vulnerability etc. tho (So I guess more then one area yeah; Think they over looked that part…since it seems they were only really going after retaliation up time.) But yeah the major complaint is suddenly moving our skills around. Doesn’t feel right at all.

It makes me worried about what other weapon sets they’re thinking about rearranging. In a game where your five main buttons are almost always in the same place, changing that around frivolously seems short-sided.

Yep. I have been using the skills in the old order that I will never get the new order right… Time to move to another weapon I guess. The greatsword isn’t OP… They were nerfing retaliation and thats why they made the change… All the cries from people in PVP

Congrats ANet, you’ve succeeded in making Greatsword worthless. There’s literally 0 reason to use it over Hammer for DPS and support. Adding 10 seconds to Symbol of Wrath removed a large amount of Greatsword’s DPS and healing potential (Writ of the Merciful).

And nerfing our already nearly useless signet actives? Really? Was that necessary?

Completely hate this change. I seriously don’t understand why they would hit Guardian greatsword when Warrior’s greatsword is left completely untouched in every patch (not that I want to see them nerfed, but was our greatsword really overpowered?). Now I not only have to relearn my skill order, but with only 1 skill on a 10 second cooldown I’m now going to just sit back and auto-attack and occasionally whirling wrath (yes I know, switch weapons too, but the greatsword skill combos were perfect before imo). Now I feel like greatsword is going to be a lot more boring with only 1 active skill with a low cooldown (although maybe it makes two-handed mastery more of a necessity with GS than it was before).

God, profession boards are the worst. Everyone knows how OP and mindless greatswords were in pve, except in the guardian’s board, of course, just as it happens with any nerf to any other profession in their respective board.

All I had to do was to 234, and repeat 232323 to destroy everything in a few seconds. It was mindless. Set the symbol, whirl for combo field, leap for combo field, win. This change will actually lead to a more interesting playstyle, because now I’m not “forced” to use the whirl and the leap right after I place my symbol every time.

Well, people are kitten off at the lengthened cool down too. Because they wanted people to use Symbol of Wrath less, the rearrangement makes sense. But they should just let us arrange weapon skills ourselves.

I feel broken when playing. (Muscle memory aside) this was a ridiculous change. Doesn’t have the same “feel” at all. :/ Plz put back… Or start giving us the ability to relocate our own skills.

They should have just left it the way it was and changed the length of retaliation!

perfect, now my bursts is on the same button on gs and hammer.

lol, i just used 5 to get them by me and used 3. Kids these days, with their fancy combo fields and witchcraft…… lol

Annoying. So now, because they were whining in SPvP, one of the few viable, useful builds for high-level guardians (retaliation build) is now hooped. 5% of the population gets the nerf handed to 95% of the population.
So tell me, Anet, now that retaliation is “more of a counter,” does that mean that our traits will reflect that, or are we stuck with the traits that were based on the OLD retaliation concept while you’ve already brought in the new one?
Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Lagz.9538:

They should have just left it the way it was and changed the length of retaliation!

This.

As a 2H guardian that just bought a Mystic Claymore and put Sigil of Strength on it, I’d like to have some explanation as to why I just got nerfed – and now my muscle memory is all screwed up!

I really don’t want to re-program my keypad to use this because that would mean adding a button as I swap to change the presets. Can’t we just re-arrange the skills ourshelve like in the first Game?

As I stated in the other thread, they’ve essentially made greatsword next to useless compared to Hammer in most situations. Losing such a large amount of DPS and support from Symbol is too big of a blow.

Grakor.3450:

@ Relentliss.2170 (Since quoting isn’t working.)

Now you’re just being silly. Nerfing retaliation isn’t a buff to mesmers, warriors, or thieves. The boon doesn’t punish them any more than it punishes, say, rangers. Let’s be objective and not complain about things that aren’t actually problems.

Symbol of Wrath was one of my main defenses vs these clowns. Now it is nerfed considerably.

DiogoSilva.7089:

God, profession boards are the worst. Everyone knows how OP and mindless greatswords were in pve, except in the guardian’s board, of course, just as it happens with any nerf to any other profession in their respective board.

All I had to do was to 234, and repeat 232323 to destroy everything in a few seconds. It was mindless. Set the symbol, whirl for combo field, leap for combo field, win. This change will actually lead to a more interesting playstyle, because now I’m not “forced” to use the whirl and the leap right after I place my symbol every time.

From what I’ve seen most other classes are able to kill much more quickly in PvE. Rather than nerfing the utility and damage of Greatsword (doubling the cooldown of its symbol), they could have simply buffed Hammer or something so that there would be more appeal for using that.

They should have simply targeted the retaliation aspects of our class, rather than screwing over one of our weapon sets in general with this terrible “fix”.

weather its by order of skill cooldown, or combo fields, i dont care, they made a big mistake changing that and im extremly kitten im sure you all saw the reaction of rage by every guardian as well. if they want to change skills, buff tem, nerf them, ok let them. but DONT mess around with the freakin skill layout. everyone already has the muscle memory set so doing this just pisses players off. if its not broke, dont fix it. guardians were just fine how they were. but w/e. my guardian is going to take a pretty bad slam on dps thanks to this. whirling wrath and symbol of wrath together use to be epic. and i loved the combo field it had of curing conditions on everyone around me. well thats gone too now. thanks Anet. I hope you listen to the disappointment of your community and change it back

I really don’t mind the nerf but please arenanet don’t change our buttons around for a reason like continuity, this is going to hurt a lot of guardian players before they correct their muscle memory.

What i love about this change is, i bought a new GS around 3 minutes before the update (i just received it when the 2:30 timer popped up) – LOL.