Guild Wars 2

Animus.6073:

I find it astonishing that that is really your theory. It is completely based on the recharge rate of the abilities. Look at literally any weapon set in the game (except thieves-I think their system is based on how much initiative each ability costs).

Prior to this patch the mesmer staff Chaos Armor (4) had a 40 second cooldown and Chaos Storm (5) had 30 seconds. Other examples of weapons which do not match the cooldown theory include the warrior sword offhand and ele earth dagger offhand. The cooldown of a skill is strongly related to the time when it is appropriate for a player to learn the skill. Giving you a 40 second cooldown in skill 2, for example, is absurd.

After reading back my post the opening paragraph sounds a bit snotty :p I did not mean to sound derogatory or aggressive, and apologise if that is how it comes across.

That is an interesting point regarding Mesmer recharge rates, but coincidentally, those two abilities had their recharge rates changed in this patch as well. Wouldn’t you know it, they didn’t move in the bar. So ANet decided if they were going to reorder the Guardian skills based on the recharge rate model, they should probably bring the Mesmer skills in line as well.

+1 to you for pointing that out, though, I missed it.

Cement.6472:

guys just go into options – control options – change weapon skill 2 , 3 and 4 to 3 , 4 and 2 and problem solved , yes u will still have the skills laid out the same but your finger will now press the right skills they are used to.

And this then messes up your other weapon so is not an option, like many here I don’t actually care about the nerf but with over 250hrs on my guardian it’s gonna take some time to get used to what is a totally pointless switch round, it’s already cost me at least 5 or 6 deaths in wvwvw due to hitting the wrong button.

So 300 hours of GW2 down the drain. Bye bye automatism of using your skills.

I can’t even test if the changes really affect me (I think they won’t that much) because I’m constantly pressing the wrong button. I’m really not interested in memorizing everything again, and getting an automatism again will be even harder.

There really is no point in having skills ordered by cooldown. It’s only good for people that want to brainlessly hit 1-5 on recharge. They should just make it customizable, this system is so pointless.

Luckily there are other games to play and this one has no monthly fee…

Eh, the change is fine for me. Now the high burst skill on the weapons are consistent. Before whirling wrath was on 3 and zealot’s defense was 2, now they’re the same. Honestly it won’t take long to get used to the adjustment.

As for the increased CD on symbol of wrath… it’s not a very powerful move in the first place, rarely gets used for retaliation in PvE, and I mainly only used it for the leap finisher. It’s a trivial nerf.

Beyond the muscle memory problems that this introduces (which is significant), the thing that really bothers me about this change is that I didn’t even use symbol of wrath for the retaliation most of the time. The more important aspects of the symbol were the light field that it provided, and the group support provided by the symbol traits. On top of that, it provided another key to press other than auto attack and a DOT-like source of damage from the regular ticks.

I used to consider the greatsword quite a good weapon. It had a lot of group synergy and support ability. It’s damage certainly wasn’t on par with say a warrior’s greatsword, but it didn’t need to be because of the extra group support that it brought. Now that support has been seriously nerfed, and the damage hasn’t been adjusted to compensate.

Just to be sure people understand something (the people saying it’s not that bad), this is all the traits this GS nerf affected (just to apparantly combat the retaliation aspect of GS).
-
Symbolic Exposure – Symbols apply vulnerability to foes.
Symbolic Power – Increases damage of symbols.
Writ of Exaltation – Symbols are larger.
Writ of Persistence – Symbols last longer.
Writ of the Merciful – All symbols heal allies.

All the above traits have had there usage halfed on GS because the symbol doubled in cooldown, add to this the loss of DPS on the GS itself due to the cooldown. So due to the above, do people really think a 5 second less cooldown on leap is worth it? – i sure don’t.

This nerf affected a lot of builds THAT DON’T USE retaliation.

The simple fact is, Anet either need to revert the cooldown or double the symbols duration and damage to make up for the cooldown.

I think it took me all of thirty seconds to move from having 2 greatsword skills to having 3 greatsword skills.

it really didn’t matter that symbol of wrath functionally did nothing for me at low levels. I just spammed 1 until I unlocked the #3 skill.

We have thousands of level 80 guardians who somehow survived the grueling difficulty of having a rather useless #2 skill, I’m sure future players can manage the same feat.

Malthurius.6870:

Eh, the change is fine for me. Now the high burst skill on the weapons are consistent. Before whirling wrath was on 3 and zealot’s defense was 2, now they’re the same. Honestly it won’t take long to get used to the adjustment.

As for the increased CD on symbol of wrath… it’s not a very powerful move in the first place, rarely gets used for retaliation in PvE, and I mainly only used it for the leap finisher. It’s a trivial nerf.

It wasn’t as powerful as whirling wrath, that’s true, but other than auto-attack and obviously whirling wrath it was a pretty significant chunk of dps, especially for those of us with Symbol heavy builds. Also, compared to Whirling Wrath, it was an ability you could have active and damaging while you were doing other attacks, which increased our potential for higher burst and our overall damage over time. I’m really not seeing how losing that is “trivial”.

Edit: As I see it, Zeal has become an even more worthless trait line than it was before. I’m not sure how that can be considered trivial either, since if anything, Zeal needed to be improved more than almost any other line.

MajorMelchett.6042:

Just to be sure people understand something (the people saying it’s not that bad), this is all the traits this GS nerf affected (just to apparantly combat the retaliation aspect of GS).
-
Symbolic Exposure – Symbols apply vulnerability to foes.
Symbolic Power – Increases damage of symbols.
Writ of Exaltation – Symbols are larger.
Writ of Persistence – Symbols last longer.
Writ of the Merciful – All symbols heal allies.

All the above traits have had there usage halfed on GS because the symbol doubled in cooldown, add to this the loss of DPS on the GS itself due to the cooldown. So due to the above, do people really think a 5 second less cooldown on leap is worth it? – i sure don’t.

This nerf affected a lot of builds THAT DON’T USE retaliation.

The simple fact is, Anet either need to revert the cooldown or double the symbols duration and damage to make up for the cooldown.

Dont forget that this also affects Justice virtue passive, which is a lot less hits now that the symbol has double cooldown.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Dont forget that this also affects Justice virtue passive, which is a lot less hits now that the symbol has double cooldown.

I didn’t think of that, so another bit of DPS loss for the list.

How some people call this a minor change is beyond me, and how Anet didn’t spot all the things affected by the symbol change is just worrying (and even more worrying if they did spot it and did it anyway).

The point here for me, was completely missed. I don’t post often, and I usually am even keeled when I do post. I am not one to arbitrarily complain about changes, but in this case I feel that the “solution” ANET has provided was a kneejerk reaction, and sloppy at best. For me it is not about relearning 3 buttons. That part is irrelevant in my eyes. It is the fact that the cool down time changes have ruined the synergy of the weapon itself. I used to be able to keep a steady combo and reliable damage on my opponent allowing me to control mobs, and flow from one attack process to the next. Now, because of the altered cool down times, and the displacement of keys I end up spamming the “1” key for long periods of time to little, or no effect on mobs while I wait for the other skills to recharge. In the meantime I have lost momentum, and my opponents are having a field day with me in that moment of pause.

Let’s face it, Guardians were already struggling in the DPS department in the environment prior to this change. We don’t do reliable burst damage outside of the Whirling attack that requires close quarters, and is not effective from range. Our choices for ranged combat are limited (As they should be) so our one big advantage was steady damage from Greatsword. Now even that is gone.

If ANET is reading this. (They should be) I would seriously reconsider this choice. This is a case where the solution is worse than the problem. You have essentially made the Greatsword an unusable option for serious players. Our one small competitive edge is gone. Now our only option is to play a strictly support role, and just hope we are in a group. Soloing has gone from something I never minded doing, and in most cases enjoyed to a tedious chore. It’s not too late to do the right thing.

A well argued case, but for one glaring flaw. Greatsword is not the Guardian’s starter weapon they get at level 1. Guardians start with a Mace. By the time they gain a Greatsword they will be at very least out of the starter zone and probably quite a few levels into the game. By which time I’m sure the 10 or 15 minutes spent unlocking all 5 Greatsword abilities won’t be too difficult to cope with.

Regardless of if the nerf was justified or not, the re-ordering of the skills is a senseless change that has messed up a lot of people. Sure, we can all re-learn our rotations and move on – until the next time Anet decide to shake it all up on a whim.

Just allow us to re-order abilities 1-5 how WE want them on our bar please. just like you can in just about every other MMO ever released. Then problem solved.

the strange thing is now more retaliation from leap ^^
Combo Field Light: Finisher Leap apply Retaliation

I am no longer happy with my greatsword since the last patch. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good replacement?(for PVE) I’ve tried all the weapons and didn’t find anything I was thrilled with. Perhaps someone has had luck with a dual weapon set?

Hammer if you don’t mind the cast time of the 3rd hit.

I’ve switched to Sword/Torch and Mace/Shield. I haven’t spent a ton of time playing with the new weapons, but Sword has some cool abilities (I love teleporting!).

Way to break the muscle memory we’ve learned entirely. How would you feel if tomorrow all the controls in your car were organized differently? Gas pedal becomes clutch, brake pedal becomes gas, and clutch becomes brakes.

This is an egregious break from smart UX design. It is not an insurmountable problem – sure we can adapt over time, but this is a poor choice on behalf of any developer. To those that disagree, all I can say is I hope they decide to reorder some of your skills at some point down the line so you can enjoy this approach as well.

For those that don’t understand, I’m referring to the Guardian Greatsword skill changes, which in this last patch changed the order that skills appear on your bar. I understand that Anet wants to order skills by length of cooldown, but this really is going to be frustrating for pretty much any Guardian that uses GS.

I can fully appreciate the need for balance and have no complaints about the goal of changing skill cooldowns. The problem is that if the planned approach is: change cooldowns = shuffle bars, that is a losing design strategy and it will rear its head again as more and more professions are forced to adapt in the future.

You should have simultaneously released a patch to allow players to reorder their bars as they please.

PS: Why did my post with 30k+ views and dozens of comments get deleted instead of moved here, or wherever else more appropriate?

Hammer does great dps. The third hit in your #1 chain is a bit annoying, but it does give you a symbol which gives protection and does additional damage as a tradeoff.

I’ll be using Hammer for PvE and continue to use GS for PvP. My second weaponset is scepter/focus.

Mystic Claymore and Superior Sigil of Strength both fill me with heavy regret now.

I still use the greatsword for general PvE. But i always run a staff and now i’m using a mace with what ever offhand is needed depending on the situation; torch for damage or shield and focus for more protection.

SHM.7628:

Thanks for the input. Anyone try dual axes maces or swords? and if so, did you like it?

lol is this a troll now? We’re not warriors and can’t use dual of any weapon (and can’t even use axes).

Just to be sure people understand something (the people saying it’s not that bad), this is all the traits this GS nerf affected (just to apparantly combat the retaliation aspect of GS).
-
Symbolic Exposure – Symbols apply vulnerability to foes.
Symbolic Power – Increases damage of symbols.
Writ of Exaltation – Symbols are larger.
Writ of Persistence – Symbols last longer.
Writ of the Merciful – All symbols heal allies.
All the above traits have had there usage halfed on GS because the symbol doubled in cooldown, add to this the loss of DPS on the GS itself due to the cooldown. So due to the above, do people really think a 5 second less cooldown on leap is worth it? – i sure don’t.
This nerf affected a lot of builds THAT DON’T USE retaliation.
The simple fact is, Anet either need to revert the cooldown or double the symbols duration and damage to make up for the cooldown.

This. A thousand times this. I ran a symbol build and I didn’t care about retaliation – nerf it rather than nerfing the entire symbol.

While I agree with other people that the sudden switch in the middle of matches was an improper implementation of these changes, I think you’re blowing this out of proportion.

After all, what about using different characters? Is your memory attuned to all 5+ skill sets, including the differences between weapons?

Honestly, you should be upset about the lack of communication (kinda) in regards to retaliation…not this. Just think of it like a new weapon, and I’m sure you’ll be fine after a few days.

@kidbs, had no idea we couldn’t dual, never tried. I deleted the post.

Retaliation changes are related to balance. I have no complaints with Arenanet making changes that they deem fit to have classes more in line with one another.

The argument for just accepting such a change in skill order is weak and illogical. It is a poor design choice. Sure we will eventually adapt, but the problem is that if this will be the approach in the future then many more players will be disenfranchised by an ever changing skill bar ordering.

Cooldowns will have to be in a state of flux as the game continues to be tweaked for balance. Anyone familiar with UI/UX design knows that the cardinal rule is to never break expected behavior. Once people have become accustomed to your application interface that is something you don’t want to change.

I fully understand that they are trying to organize skills by length of cooldown, but this will be a recurring problem unless they offer a way for players to reorder their bars or just decide to usher in today’s control setups as legacy and adopt them going forward despite future CD balancing.

It’s okay to be critical of a game you love and I certainly love GW2. My post is meant to call attention to this matter so that Anet can improve in the future.

This change is relatively early in the games life, though I’m not happy with it as 250 hrs of memory,muscle memory has now got to be relearned, why kitten off player base with no good reason was a stupid decision. But again it’s still early in the game,but for the people saying its no big deal,it will be interesting in say 6 months when this happens to warriors for example, after maybe a thousand hrs it’s really gonna upset some people. Better to nip it in the bud now and let ANet know it’s an unwanted change before it becomes the norm every time a skill cooldown is changed.
Personally I think ANet should just put the skill position back where it was and give up on doing this again.

Has anyone here played the original Guild Wars? Particularly a Dervish?

If you have, then these changes are second nature. If ANet don’t like how something is working, they change it. End of story.

ANet didn’t like how Dervishes were operating, so THEY CHANGED THE WHOLE PROFESSION. Just about ALL the skills got re-worked.

These skill changes are a part of life in Guild Wars. You’d best get used to it.

And yes, I’d just started my guardian prior to these adjustments and yes it sucks to relearn stuff, but I’d rather play a good profession rather than suffer through a broken one.

Snoflake.9087:

And yes, I’d just started my guardian prior to these adjustments and yes it sucks to relearn stuff, but I’d rather play a good profession rather than suffer through a broken one.

Greatsword was in no way broken before. Greatsword was as close to a perfect skillset as I’ve encountered imo. Whether or not retaliation was is another matter and could have been adjusted without screwing up greatsword in the process.

Snoflake.9087:

Has anyone here played the original Guild Wars? Particularly a Dervish?

If you have, then these changes are second nature. If ANet don’t like how something is working, they change it. End of story.

ANet didn’t like how Dervishes were operating, so THEY CHANGED THE WHOLE PROFESSION. Just about ALL the skills got re-worked.

These skill changes are a part of life in Guild Wars. You’d best get used to it.

And yes, I’d just started my guardian prior to these adjustments and yes it sucks to relearn stuff, but I’d rather play a good profession rather than suffer through a broken one.

I played GW1 and I’m used to regular skill changes. I rather looked forward to the skill changes and saw it as a challenge to quickly master the changed skills on all the professions, because we had secondary classes.

However, in GW2 we can’t use other classes’ skills, or put skills in whatever order we wish. So the skills and class balancing should be handled differently. Cooldowns were changed all the time in GW1, but that’ll be ridiculous in GW2 if that results skills changing positions every patch.

Secondly, in GW1 I always felt that Anet had a clear reason why they changed certain skills. This is the first time I’ve felt that they changed it on a whim. I honestly feel that they don’t know what they want to do with the guardian.

Its annoying firing off the wrong skill. I am a GS Guardian also. But I am sure after a few hours we will adapt.

Gf light field combos & greatsword symbol builds… you’ll be missed. More leaps definitely doesn’t make up for this. Guess I’ll start working on that elementalist then.

Or….you can stop bemoaning your 250+hrs lost (of which you probably memorized the combos in a few hours), and instead post on the suggestions board to make weapon slots customizable. I doubt it’s an easy thing to put in, and probably low on their list of priorities atm, but you’re better off making a suggestion there for all classes instead of posting here.

I`m new to Anet games, but I played Lineage II for about 7 years. I`ve always thought they were handling the most painful nerf-bat there is, and boy was I wrong. So, a question to old-timers – is there any chance or precedent for Anet reverting the patch changes? or should I consider my money for that game wasted?

Draeka.5941:

Bwah? I auto-attack with the hammer darn near 90% of the time to keep up the field and combo with mighty blow…the other three skills are hardly used. In terms of skill usage, I’d go GS>Staff>Hammer in terms of utilization during combat.

Simply put, you’re severely underestimating the usefulness of skills 3, 4 and 5 on the Hammer. If you’re only using 1 and 2, you’re not utilizing the full potential of the weapon.

emtwo.4058:

Draeka.5941:

Bwah? I auto-attack with the hammer darn near 90% of the time to keep up the field and combo with mighty blow…the other three skills are hardly used. In terms of skill usage, I’d go GS>Staff>Hammer in terms of utilization during combat.

Simply put, you’re severely underestimating the usefulness of skills 3, 4 and 5 on the Hammer. If you’re only using 1 and 2, you’re not utilizing the full potential of the weapon.

Quite the contrary, I know exactly how useful they are. That doesn’t change the fact that I can’t use #4 or #5 with reliability in dungeons, and #3 is an afterthought once I’m engaged with the enemy. I love using the latter skills in PvP/WvW, but in terms of PvE they lose to the GS and Staff. That was my point.

Draeka.5941:

emtwo.4058:

Draeka.5941:

Bwah? I auto-attack with the hammer darn near 90% of the time to keep up the field and combo with mighty blow…the other three skills are hardly used. In terms of skill usage, I’d go GS>Staff>Hammer in terms of utilization during combat.

Simply put, you’re severely underestimating the usefulness of skills 3, 4 and 5 on the Hammer. If you’re only using 1 and 2, you’re not utilizing the full potential of the weapon.

Quite the contrary, I know exactly how useful they are. That doesn’t change the fact that I can’t use #4 or #5 with reliability in dungeons, and #3 is an afterthought once I’m engaged with the enemy. I love using the latter skills in PvP/WvW, but in terms of PvE they lose to the GS and Staff. That was my point.

You’re also not using GS #5 in PvE, and Hammer still has more skills-per-minute with 1 through 4 than GS has with all 5.

Based on your comment SHM, I am thinking you really haven’t tried all options available to the Guardian and this is a mistake! My suggestion would be to buy some cheap white gear from your nearest weapon vendor and headout in the field and just try them out. But don’t forget that your utility skills should change with your weapon. This is something people forget, they change their weapon but not their utility skills and what utilities complement the GS will not complement the, for example, the hammer.

To take the hammer example, hammer doesn’t have a teleport skill. No leap of faith, no flashing blade etc. So I usually pair the hammer with meditation skills that allow me to port to mobs.

So yes, we can say try this and this but we’ll only be giving you weapon recommendation. Not our full build, including utilities and traits. Not to mention adaptation we make to our build under special circumstances. So best thing to do is experiment yourself and I am sure you’ll find a weapon combination that you like.

emtwo.4058:

Draeka.5941:

emtwo.4058:

Draeka.5941:

Bwah? I auto-attack with the hammer darn near 90% of the time to keep up the field and combo with mighty blow…the other three skills are hardly used. In terms of skill usage, I’d go GS>Staff>Hammer in terms of utilization during combat.

Simply put, you’re severely underestimating the usefulness of skills 3, 4 and 5 on the Hammer. If you’re only using 1 and 2, you’re not utilizing the full potential of the weapon.

Quite the contrary, I know exactly how useful they are. That doesn’t change the fact that I can’t use #4 or #5 with reliability in dungeons, and #3 is an afterthought once I’m engaged with the enemy. I love using the latter skills in PvP/WvW, but in terms of PvE they lose to the GS and Staff. That was my point.

You’re also not using GS #5 in PvE, and Hammer still has more skills-per-minute with 1 through 4 than GS has with all 5.

Bwah? I leap in with GS, hit symbol, hit them with chains, use #1, whirl, then interrupt with chains. How is that, in any way, shape or form, even close to what the hammer does? Keep in mind that pretty much every skill for the GS involves an area, and you can easily use a shout build to bypass utility casting times.

You can’t possibly tell me that you don’t use the chains as an interrupt, or that any singular GS ability can’t be used at any time during a fight effectively. The hammer is more selective in its approach, which I love and embrace. But don’t kid yourself into thinking the GS skill set is somehow more selective.

Draeka.5941:

emtwo.4058:

Draeka.5941:

emtwo.4058:

Draeka.5941:

Bwah? I auto-attack with the hammer darn near 90% of the time to keep up the field and combo with mighty blow…the other three skills are hardly used. In terms of skill usage, I’d go GS>Staff>Hammer in terms of utilization during combat.

Simply put, you’re severely underestimating the usefulness of skills 3, 4 and 5 on the Hammer. If you’re only using 1 and 2, you’re not utilizing the full potential of the weapon.

Quite the contrary, I know exactly how useful they are. That doesn’t change the fact that I can’t use #4 or #5 with reliability in dungeons, and #3 is an afterthought once I’m engaged with the enemy. I love using the latter skills in PvP/WvW, but in terms of PvE they lose to the GS and Staff. That was my point.

You’re also not using GS #5 in PvE, and Hammer still has more skills-per-minute with 1 through 4 than GS has with all 5.

Bwah? I leap in with GS, hit symbol, hit them with chains, use #1, whirl, then interrupt with chains. How is that, in any way, shape or form, even close to what the hammer does? Keep in mind that pretty much every skill for the GS involves an area, and you can easily use a shout build to bypass utility casting times.

You can’t possibly tell me that you don’t use the chains as an interrupt, or that any singular GS ability can’t be used at any time during a fight effectively. The hammer is more selective in its approach, which I love and embrace. But don’t kid yourself into thinking the GS skill set is somehow more selective.

No, the GS skill set is not more selective. Though 95% of the time, I don’t use chains as an interrupt simply because I don’t need to. I’m a Guardian, I’ll just take the hit without flinching (we’re still talking PvE, right?). The auto-attack does more DPS than #5, so why take longer to kill something when I’m in no danger of dying?

With respect to PvE, GS 1 through 4 are pretty much constant usage as soon as they’re off CD. 5 is fairly selective. Hammer 1 through 3 are pretty much constant usage, with 4 and 5 being fairly selective. Even given the fact that you’re generally utilizing one less skill with Hammer, you still end up using more skills per minute with Hammer than with GS. That’s all I’m saying.

Snoflake.9087:

And yes, I’d just started my guardian prior to these adjustments and yes it sucks to relearn stuff, but I’d rather play a good profession rather than suffer through a broken one.

There was nothing broken about the Guardian Greatsword before they changed it. In fact, of all the different weapons for all the different classes in the game this was the one that had the best synergy between the 5 abilities and the best flow during most fights. Not overpowered, just balanced and well designed. And now it’s broken.

I get that they wanted to address the retaliation issue, but they’ve done so in a totally clumsy fashion that has had a number of knock-on effects and broken the whole fluidity and balance of the Greatsword in the process. That’s poor design, no other way to describe it.

I’d rather they left alone things that work fine and address the things about the Guardian class that don’t work that well, of which there are a number. Less nerfs, more fixes please. Once you have everything about a profession running smoothly and properly, then you can consider what needs rebalancing. But until then, please leave stuff that is working alone.

Never mind the fact that we lost a lot of the damage from Symbol of Wrath and gained a pathetic amount from Leap of Faith, or that the cooldown change was minuscule at best from symbol of wrath to leap of faith.

Why not just pull retaliation from Symbol of Wrath? It doesn’t last long enough to really feel worth it in the first place. Why not just have switched retaliation for, say, might. Or something else entirely. All this has really done is crippled any use of any self-sufficient finishers, since the Symbol doesn’t really last long enough.

So why mess with the skillset that worked in the first place just to make the retaliation harder to get? Just pull it off entirely, it’s on enough of our side abilities as it is.

Cernow.3974:

I get that they wanted to address the retaliation issue, but they’ve done so in a totally clumsy fashion that has had a number of knock-on effects and broken the whole fluidity and balance of the Greatsword in the process. That’s poor design, no other way to describe it.

Pretty much, in nerfing the retaliation on the symbol they killed the GS symbol build along the Zeal line.

I honestly can’t see how they could have made more of a weird job in how they went about the retaliation nerf. I mean did no one at Anet spot the traits that are affected by the symbol that have nothing to do with retaliation? (and even if they did, didn’t they noticed that a 20s cooldown was way over the top for a GS symbol build), and that one of the trait lines (Zeal) actully targets a GS symbol build!.
-
What i find more of an (perhaps the biggest) issue though is, we’ve clearly shown that this has broken more things than actully “fixing” retaliation (i do "" as i really don’t think it needs to be fixed) and damaged a few non retaliation builds, and as yet not a peep out of Anet on it.

So i ask: Anet was it by accident that you did this, and did you simply not notice that in increasing the symbol cooldown on GS it actully affected a lot than you intended, and if so what are you going to do about it?.

More over, with hammer you have a 4s blast cool down, that’s an easy 12 stacks of might without the empowering might trait. Consider that for a moment.

Playing guardian is really no fun now. I use all of my 4 skills and I’m left with autoattack… SO MUCH FUN, really :/. I’m going to level OP warrior.

i can see this is EXACTLY the thread i was looking to come and kitten in.

because i have 400 hours logged on my guardian, and ITS SO G D DUMB to switch these skills around.. it makes ZERO sense whatsoever except that you want to make it “pretty” and arrange them by CD time…

for the love of all that is holy, unholy… and anything else.. chang eit back a-net, there are people with hundreds of hours on that sole combination of skills and its going to take another 100 or so hours to get back in the flow of things and forget the old ways which were apparently, way too OP..

I know the order change is an issue, but i recon we really need to focus on the things this change actully broke trait/skill wise.

I’ve posted (as others have) how many traits across all lines) this change messed with, and i (and probably others) have also posted how the Zeal line has been broken in parts as the line targets the GS and Symbols (dedicated symbol buffs and GS trait options) in places- these are the big issues with this change and these really need a response.

Hopefully if we can get them to notice what they broke in messing with the cooldowns on GS, we can get them to revert them (and fix ret in another way – remove it from the symbol!) and in turn fix the skill order aswell.

I don’t really feel like playing, I logged in and just felt frustrated…. the 4 key was exactly where I would put a closer skill if one was available. Holding my finger over 3 is less natural.

Hey Dev’s, don’t forget about this thread, doesn’t look like you guys replied to the massive criticism.

In summary: Change back the skill order of the great sword, there is absolutely no need for you to mess around with people’s muscle memory.

Keep the “nerfs” and changes you made to the GS, that is entirely up to you guys, but don’t mess around with skill order if you aren’t going to make the UI customizable.

I really dislike switching Leap of Faith and Symbol of Wrath. Can we get this changed back please? Or can we be given the ability to rearrange the powers ourselves?

Thanks.