Guild Wars 2

Not overly excited about the proposed changes. Glacial heart CD should be 20 seconds or less and a 10% base damage increase to hammers. The justification that hammer damage is on par because of the damage from the symbol is assinign because the assumption is that the person you are fighting is just going to stand there the whole time, which happens, never just about.

You want to buff “DPS” Guards? Give Guardians an additional 3,500 base HP’s.

You want to fix condition damage for Guards?

#1. As others have suggested, add some cripples, give us more condition options built into our weapon lines/auto attacks that last more than 3-5 seconds.

#2. Guards get a completely new condition damage available ONLY to guards, we will call it “cleansing fire”. It acts and behaves exactly the same as burn damage does now except it is not the same burn that Rangers (Torch), Warriors (Longbow), Necros have they would be two separate conditions. There’s is orange like fire, ours is blue…w/e you get the point.

OR

If you’re going to just make it so burn stacks in duration, then let the burn from the player who has the highest condition damage or burn damage override an existing burn. If my fellow zerker guard with 0 condition damage applies a burn before mine, then I apply a burn, why in the hell does his burn damage take precedence and mine just adds time to his?

Oh yes, the fix for escape ability, Judges Intervention and Sword #2 are area targetable <gasp>! Why not, just about every other class out there can get away or create distance gaps, but oh no’s not the base 13k HP guardians.

cubed.2853:

JonPeters.5630:

Symbol of Swiftness
To clarify the new Symbol of Swiftness will give you 4 seconds of Swiftness every single pulse regardless of if you have swiftness or not. This is a improvement in many situations and a slight loss in the situation where you were using the Symbol as just a one time buff. I think this makes it feel more like a Symbol, which is good. We are still discussing the idea of it being 5 seconds, but there is some danger of that going pretty high with boon duration.

that is a pretty nasty change for wvw. Oo i hope you thought that through…

I raged about this change for a little bit, until I got into WvW today with my guard.

We stacked, blasted might, ran across the map and the 3-4 guardians in the group laid out a chain of SoS’es. Now, with the current system, we get ~8 seconds of swiftness if it’s fresh, 1 second if it’s not. So if you already have swiftness from anyone else in your group, your SoS only counts for 1 extra second, and all of the guardians start to drift to the back of the guild group/zerg—especially when the PuG’s start accumulating and soak up the warhorn buffs. It was more frustrating because people kept putting weak swiftnesses on me, and I kept losing it and waiting for my SoS to recharge and reapply.

With the change, all of those additional SoS’es would add 4 seconds apiece regardless of whether swiftness were already applied, so it would be 12-16 extra seconds of swiftness instead of 3-4. That makes it better for WvW.

The biggest downside would be running to group events in PvE, or roaming.

Meh. Those updates won’t affect my build except maybe the Retributive Armor that I occasionally switch between with Purity. I actually think these changes are more pathetic than OP’d suggestions that whiny buff-demanding guardians always bring up.

Will Searing flame remove a boon by target, means you burn 5 people, they all get a boon stripped every 10 sec? or will it remove one random boon from one target every 10 sec ?

Guardians a tanky class? HA! What a joke!

We need more HP! I’m tired of stacking toughness and vitality while sacrificing my dmg output just so I can match the survivability of a Warrior. 13k HP is ridiculous for a class that’s supposed to be able to take a punch in the face and smile. I can’t tell you how many times I got laughed at by a Warrior in WvW because they regenerate half the damage I deal to them. Either I make a glass-cannon and get killed in 2sec or I focus survivability and tickle them with my greatsword. Guardians have TERRIBLE survivability in comparison to the other Heavy armor class. I’m comparing Warrior and Guardian to each other because they are both front-line Heavy fighters and I think a Guardian should be able to take just as much pressure as a Warrior while still being able to cause decent damage.

If we had more survivability, building a more offensive Guardian would be much more viable, but as things stand right now, we practically have no choice but to focus on toughness and vitality otherwise you can kiss Dungeons and higher lvl Fractals goodbye because nobody likes a squishy or a weak player.

Honestly I think the Guardian update is pretty weak and mostly useless. We just need our HP back. I hope you guys at ArenaNet aren’t set on completely rejecting and ignoring this idea.

^agree with that dude, with more hp we wouldnt be so kitten limited in our builds and gear.

I thought about it guys. I think we might be wrong on a few things.

First from a balance stand point what sense would it make for a heavy armored like us to
1. have a lot of hp
2. Great/Good damage
3. Decent passive regeneration
4. Excellent CC both hard and soft
5. Good passive movement speed with access to reliable swiftness.
6. A nice selection of skills

Now wouldn’t that be over powered?…. What’s that? the Warrior already has all that?

Well frell me dead…

We don’t need more HP. We’d be unstoppable. We could use some other stuff. But not more HP.

I would just like more speed. And some kind of CC. Like I mentioned earlier a ranged stun of some sort. And atleast make Virtue of Resolve heal as much as everyone elses regens do. I think it might be the lowest scaling heal regen. I think even theif self healing is higher. I need to recheck that one though.

If it is possible, I would like to suggest for Writ of Persistence (Honor VII) to be applied for Symbol of Protection (Hammer) as well.

I think that we don’t necessary need more health, but instead a more viable VoR and VoC passives. Now both virtues are useless to keep the passive effect. Even VoJ passive is weak in my opinion.

If they change VoR passive to heals about ~200 instead of ~90 and VoC to trigger every 5th you take (without counting blocks) or even every 20 sec would be nice to try keep the passives. Now the passives are just jokes, bad ones. They don’t follow the “keep strong passive effects for yourself or activate to support allies”.

I just burst into laughter about this in the wiki:

Virtues have been said to help balance the guardian; for example, they have a lower base health than the warrior profession but compensate for this with their higher health regeneration granted by Virtue of Resolve.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guardian

Christos de Soufre.3802:

We don’t need more HP. We’d be unstoppable. We could use some other stuff. But not more HP.

I agree with you when it comes to the healwaybuild and support AH builds. But the problem is that there alot of us also who dont like warriors but want to play more dps-offensive guardians. And we need a bit of a fix tbh. There is no contradiction in making a guardian good support and good dps depended on how you gear and spec them. But now we have 1 option if we want to viable.

juno.1840:

It won’t hurt guards in a big zerg where symbols drop like crazy. You’ll see better zerg mobility because of it which will help you and others.

It’s not so good solo or in small party, but in those situations you can afford to sit in the symbol for some ticks.

AND now two guards with staff stack instead of only one being effective.

There is no situation you can afford to sit in symbol when you need speed buff :-D That symbol change is illogical nonsence

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Power of the Virtuous (Virtues 25) still needs an increase to at least 2%, although I’d rather see 3%.

considering they went through all the effort to nerf bountiful power to be the same as power of the virtuous. I doubt they will do an 180 on it. Would be nice though….

Merge a couple of Spirit Weapons traits in Zeal and make room for a new Master (possibly grandmaster) trait which lends 10% of Precision to Vitality.

A full zerker dps guard would get 2k extra health and resilient/healway builds would get none.

Personally, I would just like chill to apply to all weapons and with more frequency ( or on demand via virtue ) – that would answer most of my issues.

“Lonewolf Kai.3682:
Power of the Virtuous (Virtues 25) still needs an increase to at least 2%, although I’d rather see 3%.”

Oh yes Buff Guard DPS! 4 Guard´s lf supportwarr 3 banners + empowered allies or Kick! I would like this.
Revenge for getting kicked out of CoF often long time ago.

Btw this is a Joke, Guardps is not to weak…..

I totally forgot about the spirit weapons traits. They should see some love and a trait merge. So we can actually use them for something besides show.

SilkySmooth.1574:

2650 armor with strength in numbers, 2900 power 47% crit and 905 condi damage which makes burn hit 555, bleed ~90 and poison 150(sigils). and i also have 50% burn duration

Bring me the condi buffs anet:D make me burn for more

(edit) im sad to see shattered aegis go tho, it was a nice 3 sec burn(1900 dps) (+ 1.5 sec because it blocks which will still remain)

so there definitely is a possible power condi guard build.

14k hps….. this is the biggest problem… you dont see a warrior with any spec less then 20k

Talyn.3295:

I thought about it guys. I think we might be wrong on a few things.

First from a balance stand point what sense would it make for a heavy armored like us to
1. have a lot of hp
2. Great/Good damage
3. Decent passive regeneration
4. Excellent CC both hard and soft
5. Good passive movement speed with access to reliable swiftness.
6. A nice selection of skills

Now wouldn’t that be over powered?…. What’s that? the Warrior already has all that?

Well frell me dead…

And that is the reason the guardians are upset as a whole….. Devs are excited as heck talking about warriors.. and couldnt look like they could care less and also forget out abilities when they talk about us… then Warriors have been buffed to near demi god like ( I know have a 80 with full exotic ). I refuse to change over to warrior..its not face roll easy to play the class. If they dont fix guardians then I move to something else to have fun playing till Camelot Unchained starts its alpha which I bought a spot into thru kickstarter….and hope the people who started RvR can do it again!

Christos de Soufre.3802:

We don’t need more HP. We’d be unstoppable. We could use some other stuff. But not more HP.

I agree in which with a similar HP to a Warrior I would put all my gear in berserker stats and that, combined with the innate defensive abilities of Gardians would make us almost unstoppable.

But the problem is: we have no viable condition builds, we have two almost useless trait lines (from February to the current date all my Guardian builds had either 0/0/30/20/20, 0/0/30/30/10, 0/0/10/30/30 or a 0/0/20/30/20 distribution), four useless summonable weapons that will never earn a slot in my ability skillbar and a blatant lack of mobility (paired with the worst ranged options in the whole game). Can be also argued that Guardians aren’t longer the best bunkers in the game due our armor an blocks means nothing against the current condition meta and our low HP is melted in seconds.

I solved my problems with the Guardian class just using a Warrior instead for most of the game content. It works wonders.

what dps guardian needs is something related to swiftness/cripple/stun in his actual build(10.30.30.0.0)
he is useless with his greatsword if your teleport is in CD, you cannot even autoattack with it.
there is also a problem with his main dps: scepter autoattack, even if it is now faster it still gets obstructed, but the most important problem is that when you fight against ranger – necro with pets, that autoattack hits those pets intead of the enemy character so it is useless
what i try to explain is that in pvp his most viable build is not enough so i think that not onlyinusual inusual traits/abilities should be buffed but also the most viable ones need a little buff as i explained above

Amins.3710:

Contrary to belief, the power/condi guardian NEEDS a ton of healing… the HP pool is ridiculously low as well as the ability to keep a target close to you once you’ve used your very limited soft CC and blinks.

If you’re not going to give us more conditions, fine… but then don’t give us +Condi modifiers… give us +Burning Modifiers and allow Burning to Heal us for a % of damage it does……..

Your solution of forcing us to go sigil/runes is ~not acceptable~.

Truth.

The above idea to allow burning to heal us for a % of its damage would be perfect, when coupled with a previous idea to have our burning scale with power instead of condition damage. If you are dead set on not increasing our base hp or improving aegis to provide a minimum damage threshold before it is consumed…I think this is a great idea.

I also agree with the repeatedly expressed concerns about providing a mechanism to stay on our targets in melee range. Glacial heart should be more accessible and not dependent on using a specific weapon. I think glacial heart should be swapped for one/both of those symbol minor traits in zeal. Symbol traits belong in valor, as valor is all about meditations (getting enemies/allies to stand in your circle). That sounds like symbols to me. Face tanking stuff by standing still requires building defensive with toughness (valor).

I have a major issue with symbols being the mandatory traits in zeal since symbols are not available to over 50% of our available weapons. There is no way on this earth that I would spend even 5 trait points in something that I can get zero usage of…especially when presented with the option to spend those same 5 points in something that can help me. Please move and merge symbolic exposure and symbolic power. Please fix zeal.

All Symbol traits and most symbol skills need to get merged, revamped or added to our current weaponry. Currently they work really bad as a area denial against foes or as a buffing field for friends. And whiteout the trait to make them bigger they are still tiny.

Maybe we can’t get it all whiteout becoming op, but they do need to do something. Most of the time, my enemies stand in my symbol and laugh at the tickling sensation it gives them. Add that it is really easy to dodge out yet i barely see anyone do it anymore, only makes me a sad Charr.

Would love to see Guards healing signet recharge balanced (read equal to) a Warriors healing signet recharge. Why not; a warrior has higher health pool and their sig gives regeneration on short timer to sustain that. Guardian would benefit form the signet recharge equality given the smaller base health pool.

Healing skills across all classes I believed where suppose to be equal but nuanced towards the profession. So why the chasm on recharge time?

Shelter the block is nice but needs to scale higher with healing power and healing breeze is … well maybe if breeze was decent non-channeled swirling radius AoE (a healing whirlwind ??) similar to a Rangers healing spring I might use it.

Make my Guardian faster! I want 25% Move Speed (from the trait) like a warrior cause they don’t freakin need it!
Seriously though Guardians are slow as hell and I don’t want to be forced to use speed runes cause other classes don’t need em

I don’t understand why there are still guardians complaining so much about not being tanky. With the right traits and equipments, we don’t die. The tankiness is the only thing that works, and that’s the problem, making a lot of other builds (such as DPS. or burning) less viable. Sure when you choose to play DPS, the ratio of sacrificing tankiness is too much; but buffing the tankiness is not a solution because people who choose to be tanky from the start WILL get even more tankier. Buff or redesign the other builds instead, make it worth the tankiness that we sacrifice.

It is probably too late since this is a balance patch buy why can other classes make use of the healing stat to begin with? If they didn’t then some of the issues or concerns we are raising wouldn’t even exist. My personal opinion is that once a stat gets cross pollenated with others, said classes make better use of it and it just becomes a balance nightmare regardless of which game one plays.

Personal opinion here but we have to give too much up in regards to survivability in order to boost our DPS in 2 play styles of gameplay (WvW/sPvP).

Why can’t symbol of swiftness be 8 seconds of swiftness if you have none then 3 to 4 + swiftness if you already have it?

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

I’m glad to know you can’t read, and that you really don’t know much about either class. Warriors can support, but in a much different way with -some- similarities. Just like other classes can support, too. (Not to mention guardians get support skills on virtues, on weapons and many utilities.) And guess what? We can do damage, just like warriors other classes. If you think Guardians can’t do damage you’re greatly mistaken, please learn the class before posting. Also, no one is even talking about the lore of the game. Stay on topic please.

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

I’m glad to know you can’t read, and that you really don’t know much about either class. Warriors can support, but in a much different way with -some- similarities. Just like other classes can support, too. (Not to mention guardians get support skills on virtues, on weapons and many utilities.) And guess what? We can do damage, just like warriors other classes. If you think Guardians can’t do damage you’re greatly mistaken, please learn the class before posting. Also, no one is even talking about the lore of the game. Stay on topic please.

Ill pass your childish remarks.

You seamd to have taken offence. But I didentcall you dumb it were directed to arenanet for having the attitude that a guardian buffed offensivly would be a new warrior. And thats just dumb.
Second of all I know the class pretty well so I know what im talking about. Third, what I meent with “lore” were not the games lore but more arenanets view about the guardian clas of some slowmoving support class, with dps traits that aint viable. There view on classes is a part of lore.
Fourth I know a guard can do damage, and I know it can do lots of damage. But it aint viable as a damage dealer in many acpects and one is movmentspeed and the other is the low healthpool and the fact we need (in different to warriors) sacrifice so much of our survivability.

meh … just throw this out too… probably lost (bashed, ignored…) somewhere else on the forum.

Change to trait line:
Zeal trait line stats = power & condition damage
Radiance trait lines = precision & critical damage
Valor trait line = toughness & condition duration

Thinking as to why.
1) If I am going power why not give a boost to condition I use to DPS (burn).
2) If I am running precision, well…
3) If I am going toughness then my burns may get at least 1 more tick to help with DPS.

/end random thought/

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

I’m glad to know you can’t read, and that you really don’t know much about either class. Warriors can support, but in a much different way with -some- similarities. Just like other classes can support, too. (Not to mention guardians get support skills on virtues, on weapons and many utilities.) And guess what? We can do damage, just like warriors other classes. If you think Guardians can’t do damage you’re greatly mistaken, please learn the class before posting. Also, no one is even talking about the lore of the game. Stay on topic please.

Ill pass your childish remarks.

You seamd to have taken offence. But I didentcall you dumb it were directed to arenanet for having the attitude that a guardian buffed offensivly would be a new warrior. And thats just dumb.
Second of all I know the class pretty well so I know what im talking about. Third, what I meent with “lore” were not the games lore but more arenanets view about the guardian clas of some slowmoving support class, with dps traits that aint viable. There view on classes is a part of lore.
Fourth I know a guard can do damage, and I know it can do lots of damage. But it aint viable as a damage dealer in many acpects and one is movmentspeed and the other is the low healthpool and the fact we need (in different to warriors) sacrifice so much of our survivability.

We don’t really sacrifice that much for a dps build, I run zerkers with 16k HP and find myself being just fine. The only type of warrior I even struggle to fight against is pure regen tank condi warriors in a 1v1 situation, and it just usually draws out into no one dying. If you want to have pure zerkers with the same amount of survivability we currently have + more HP then what’s the point of playing a Warrior? Our DPS spec is viable, and I addressed the need for more soft CC (Which is cripple/chill/snare/etc if you don’t know the terminology). We have a good amount of leaps and blinks and utilities that give movement speed. (Which we won’t need to use if we get more soft CC). You keep saying that we sacrifice too much survivability to go dps spec but most of our needed traits are in the valor / honor lines anyway, and again.. If you want to maintain the survivability we have now with more damage, that’s just broken. There has to be some kind of give and take balance, you can’t have it all.

how about a (grandmaster) trait: make all teleports have ground targeting. like judge’s intervention and flashing blade. that would be a nice mobility add to guardians.

and its also posible to use it for merciful intervention, but only heal the ally when you port in a xx radius away from him.

flashing blade, JI, MI, leap of faith, awsome mobile dps guard:D

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Makoto.9647:

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

Thats just dumb. I mean warriors can support as good as us. We wouldent be “just another” warrior class because we can do damage.
There is no contradiction in the “lore” of a guardian to be able to either do damage or be support.

I’m glad to know you can’t read, and that you really don’t know much about either class. Warriors can support, but in a much different way with -some- similarities. Just like other classes can support, too. (Not to mention guardians get support skills on virtues, on weapons and many utilities.) And guess what? We can do damage, just like warriors other classes. If you think Guardians can’t do damage you’re greatly mistaken, please learn the class before posting. Also, no one is even talking about the lore of the game. Stay on topic please.

Ill pass your childish remarks.

You seamd to have taken offence. But I didentcall you dumb it were directed to arenanet for having the attitude that a guardian buffed offensivly would be a new warrior. And thats just dumb.
Second of all I know the class pretty well so I know what im talking about. Third, what I meent with “lore” were not the games lore but more arenanets view about the guardian clas of some slowmoving support class, with dps traits that aint viable. There view on classes is a part of lore.
Fourth I know a guard can do damage, and I know it can do lots of damage. But it aint viable as a damage dealer in many acpects and one is movmentspeed and the other is the low healthpool and the fact we need (in different to warriors) sacrifice so much of our survivability.

We don’t really sacrifice that much for a dps build, I run zerkers with 16k HP and find myself being just fine. The only type of warrior I even struggle to fight against is pure regen tank condi warriors in a 1v1 situation, and it just usually draws out into no one dying. If you want to have pure zerkers with the same amount of survivability we currently have + more HP then what’s the point of playing a Warrior? Our DPS spec is viable, and I addressed the need for more soft CC (Which is cripple/chill/snare/etc if you don’t know the terminology). We have a good amount of leaps and blinks and utilities that give movement speed. (Which we won’t need to use if we get more soft CC). You keep saying that we sacrifice too much survivability to go dps spec but most of our needed traits are in the valor / honor lines anyway, and again.. If you want to maintain the survivability we have now with more damage, that’s just broken. There has to be some kind of give and take balance, you can’t have it all.

I run a similar one. But i agree we do need cc because i do massive damage on none moving targets. Our burst is to easy to dodge imo.
But when i talk about more hp i feel like in bigger fights 10 v10 in wvw we have a bit of a problem imo.
And not to talk about the spiritweapons (who i would love to run) is bad right now…. The posibilitys for a roaming build in wvw with spiritweapons and even support are so good. Why arenanet….

Sylpheed.8163:

Okay, first of all Anet has stated that they don’t want Guardian to be another Warrior class. Each class should bring something to the table, and they’ve said countless times that they want Guardian to be more of the support role, but also be able to perform in other areas (DPS, etc). Yeah, a lot of these buffs are underwhelming but they’re buffs regardless, and it shows that they want to make more builds a bit better. They’re not going to give us 3k+ health for DPS builds, or other broken stuff that many people have suggested.. That’s ludicrous. We practically have the best support and insane sustained healing / survivability /tankiness. Our DPS builds and damage are fine, and all we lack really is soft CC to help stay in melee range of targets and maybe a bit of condition damage. So many complaints and counter suggestions in this thread would just make Guardian even more broken. We are by far the most balanced class, and I’ve enjoyed it being this way since beta. I’m sorry, but you should go play Warrior / Thief / whatever other classes you can’t handle on your guardian if you want to be “OP”, not that they even really are.

I agree with them, Guardian should not become another Warrior. However the key element that separate Guardian from Warrior are not viable. I’m talking about spirit weapons.

One of the biggest differences between the two classes is that Guardian is a heavy armored summoner. Maybe if Anet took a hard look at spirit weapons and made them viable we would get more variety of builds.

Makoto.9647:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

We don’t need more HP. We’d be unstoppable. We could use some other stuff. But not more HP.

I agree with you when it comes to the healwaybuild and support AH builds. But the problem is that there alot of us also who dont like warriors but want to play more dps-offensive guardians. And we need a bit of a fix tbh. There is no contradiction in making a guardian good support and good dps depended on how you gear and spec them. But now we have 1 option if we want to viable.

This is why a trait that converts power to vitality is nearly essential in zeal. Otherwise people will be stuck runing the same AH and Healway builds seemingly forever. Other builds will never be viable with 13k health.

Relentliss.2170:

Makoto.9647:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

We don’t need more HP. We’d be unstoppable. We could use some other stuff. But not more HP.

I agree with you when it comes to the healwaybuild and support AH builds. But the problem is that there alot of us also who dont like warriors but want to play more dps-offensive guardians. And we need a bit of a fix tbh. There is no contradiction in making a guardian good support and good dps depended on how you gear and spec them. But now we have 1 option if we want to viable.

This is why a trait that converts power to vitality is nearly essential in zeal. Otherwise people will be stuck runing the same AH and Healway builds seemingly forever. Other builds will never be viable with 13k health.

As I commented earlier, I think it would have to be a master/grandmaster Zeal trait that converted precision into vitality – that would prevent builds which already have access to a lot of vitality (or toughness and healing for that matter ) from gaining too much more.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Guardian:
Tanky and supportive guardians are in a strong position in many gametypes. We do feel that damage guardians are not as powerful as they could be. While we don’t want guardians to be as strong offensively as some of the other classes (given their powerful defensive abilities) we opened up more offensive guardian builds.

• Zeal V – Shattered Aegis. Damage instead of Burning.
• Zeal VII – Zealous Blade. This trait now scales with Healing power (2%.)
• Zeal XII – Kindled Zeal. Increased conversion from 10% to 13%.
• Radiance V – Searing Flames. Reduced cooldown from 20s to 10s.
• Radiance X – Powerful blades. Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
• Valor V – Retributive Armor. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 7%.
• Honor VI – Pure of Heart. Increased scaling with Healing power from 25% to 40%.
• Virtues VIII – Supreme Justice. Number of attacks going from 4 to 3.
• Symbol of Swiftness: This skill now applies 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse, rather than 8 seconds if you have no swiftness and 1 second if you have swiftness.

So it looks like they’re trying to buff our damage and cleaning up some of the more “useless” stuff, a step in the right direction. But why is Kindled Zeal still a thing?

I don’t even know how this is considered a buff. How Anet expect Guardians to do condition damage with only one condition? How bout give us chill? And for the love of God, buff Judges Intervention burst damage. 600 crit ain’t cool

I would like to see better access to soft CCs for the Guardian—either better access to Chill or Cripple through skills or traits. (For example, like a new trait that causes a cripple or a chill on the first (or more) pulse(s) of a symbol.)

If the end goal is to give power guardians more options for damage, then I would also like to ask if a similar (but not necessarily the same) % damage buff be applied to Zeal VII: Zealous Blades to give power dps guardians more than one good weapon option to go when aiming for damage.

(Granted, the healing part of Zealous Blades is meant to help the Guardian have more sustain, but I don’t feel it’s cause for dps-minded guardians to choose a GS over the Sword/Focus builds, especially with the new +10% damage on Radiance X: Powerful Blades, when doing things like dungeons or PvE.)

If they made hammer #2 add chill, that would be so freaking pro!

Jon is still nowhere to be seen.

I would like to point out something that may or may not be a solution to the proposed change if it is entered as is.
When you have the symbol size increase trait, cast Symbol of Swiftness in front of you and run across the entire symbol you actually get buffed twice. If you watch your swiftness icon it will refresh just before you leave the symbol. Currently this only adds 1 swiftness so it’s understandable if nobody has ever noticed this before.
This means you will at the very least get 7 seconds with this trait if you use it this way if they make it 4 seconds. Or 9 seconds if they up it to 5 seconds.
Just something to keep in mind for pve roaming and wvw solo running to places. It’s only ten points to get that trait.
I’m not defending the change, I’m just pointing out a possible mitigation to some of the downsides that I haven’t seen anyone mention yet.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Jon is still nowhere to be seen.

Probably busy, I’m sure he’ll get around to answering some questions.

Just gonna toss this in here, I think it would be nice if Torch 5 Skill removed conditions on the guardian as well as friendly targets that we are breathing on.

Alatreon.2943:

Just gonna toss this in here, I think it would be nice if Torch 5 Skill removed conditions on the guardian as well as friendly targets that we are breathing on.

It would be nice if torch was a main hand so we could use shield or focus.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Jon is still nowhere to be seen.

Not really fair although he is the one that said Monday. However, he is busy we probably all agree on and did make a post regarding some of the other classes. Saw it on reddit and it was noted that just because x class didn’t see anything doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.

Furthermore, it is probably that these two classes he left out are probably the ones getting more attention this round (purely speculation on my part). I say this because he noted about testing some sword builds for the ranger crowd…

eleshazar.6902:

I’m going to restate what everyone here is saying. *The Symbol of Swiftness change would completely nerf the guardian in WvW

I am not saying this. The change is welcome, it is one of several they need to take in regards to our limited mobility. The only thing you are concerned with is the initial tick, you are not factoring in additional applications after each tick. Guardians can potentially chain SoS and have it serve as a means of refreshing swiftness more than 1s. In a typical scenario you will see each tick lasting 5-6 seconds, depending on boon duration. The way it is now, if you rely on SoS you have to 1) have no swiftness, 2) wait for swiftness to expire (by either timing an SoS use for just after it expires, or by stopping completely to drop it; depending on the player).

I think the larger issue is the lack of mobility options. You will, most likely, see a positive change in the maintenance of swiftness with this change. Unfortunately, this still leaves Guardians in the dust. Other classes have more reliable options which can be applied readily. Until they give us a snare or reliable way to maintain our target, no amount of swiftness will be adequate.

SilkySmooth.1574:

2650 armor with strength in numbers, 2900 power 47% crit and 905 condi damage which makes burn hit 555, bleed ~90 and poison 150(sigils). and i also have 50% burn duration

(edit) im sad to see shattered aegis go tho, it was a nice 3 sec burn(1900 dps) (+ 1.5 sec because it blocks which will still remain)

As long as the scaling is reasonable, you will likely benefit more from the new Shattered Aegis. The potential for your burn being countered, at least in sPvP/WvW, is pretty high. Whereas direct damage, while affected by mitigation, will provide a more damage-spike like effect. Even with sigils providing (very poorly) additional conditions, Guardian damage is best suited to hard, fast spikes in PvP at the moment. Unfortunately, Offensive-oriented guardians lack the sustain to outlast most other class/build combinations, particularly when factoring in how predictable our best spike is.

I am largely playing devil’s advocate at this point in regards to Shattered Aegis 2.0;

Jon Peters
Jon Peters
Jon Peters

Maybe he’ll Beetlejuice his way over here and follow up with us now .

just like many have pointed out, increase our dps by giving the class more HP.