Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
Guardian hp, is it fair?
im sorry steps. but you lost me there. i agree that a 2k buff to hp would be fair and kinda needed. but holy cow man xD that was just. wow
I guess keeping permamnent protection and retaliation sucks in compare to bit higher HP pool of warrior. And healing with every fart too.
Yeah OP you are totally right, screw balance YOU need guardian class buffed with HP since YOU cant play against conditions.
You can’t have permanent protection and retaliatation. You can have it last awhile but not permanent unless you’re built for it. The thing you seem to not understand is different builds use different setups. We’re talking about the general guardian. They have a low hp pool in consideration with what other classes can have.
Also conditions are not affected by retaliation or protection. YOU need TO learn A few ThinGS CAPSNGSIBFIBNGKISBNGBSBSCJBSJVBSJBV
think what op´s problem is that dmg guardian is werry lackluster atm. support and bunker guard is in a good place.
Damage guardian isn’t what a guardian is suppose to be. They’re the defensive heavy role that combines – a cleric and a knight. They do mediocre damage with high survivability. The guardians you are all complaining about are beserker kitten builds who do nothing but damage and can be easily dominated. I, as a tank/healer, can easily wipe the floor with such filth due to knowing how to play this game and understanding what to do. Damage guardian is nothing to be afraid of. A damage warrior has more hp/tank and damage. This goes for every beserker class except that of maybe a feather class. Which is a feather. Which has not been implemented yet due to being incredibly op.
Edit: I couldn’t care less if they nerfed the hell out of a beserker guardian. I think that’d be a buff and give a true name to guardians. Guardians – Tank. Warrior – Damage.
this is not a thread about my spelling and grammar this is about the bad hp pool a guard has
It’s a friendly suggestion to help you express your ideas more effectively.
the rest is magi and rings and stuff
I would recommend leaving Magi gear behind. If you need vit, get Valkyrie. Or Soldier’s.
the traits are fine
You seem upset about conditions. This would suggest a weakness in your traits that you seem unsatisfied with.
since we have no leap/dash skills
Leap of Faith
Flashing Blade
Judge’s Intervention (And Merciful Intervention)And just for good measure, We’ve got Swiftness on things like
Symbol of Swiftness
Retreat
Save Yourselves
ok so now your saying i should get awesome if i drop my staff for a sword (there gose a big heal and a swiftness) i get flashing blade now i have 1 tele every w/e its cool down is and i have to wait to swap back to my GS nice nice i can see how that almost works
symbol of swiftness ok so now i need my staff do i drop my sword or my GS normally i would drop the sword since i have a bonus to 2 handed wep cool downs
Retreat Ok yeah that’s along swiftness with a nice huge cool down to match it even with the shout trait
Save your self i already use this if i use that in a group fight i get a pile of conditions and i bleed to death ok in 1v1 its probably the best utility skill i have ever had
Judge’s intervention Ok now i can use that but i have to drop a shout and since i have the shout cool down i guess i could swap it out for my 3ed utility now i no longer have retreat but a target tele that has a nice long cool down that seems like a good plan to me
awesome plan now go look at how a warr moves around and see if you can keep up with all of his dash and leap skills or even a ele or even a thief hell the only class u can catch in the short distance run is a Engi if he’s stupid or u actually get someone who dose not dodge your Gs pull and i mean hell even I can dodge that skill u can see it coming theres even way to counter the pull after
In the end here people i dont want warr damage or hp i dont wanna move around like a thief or a ele all im asking is that a guard that wants to fill the role of more then just being a blob of armor with no damage
i want to heal my team in small gang fights but also be able to deal enough damage to chase someone away so i can rezz my allies i dunno about u guys but how many times have u taken that Bunker guards damage just so u can stomp and dodge roll away and heal like nothing happend
You are not taking into account the damage mitigation and healing skills the guardian has that other classes (and particularly the warrior) do not. I would trade 8K off the HP of my warrior to get wall of reflection, hold the line, retreat and the aegis virtue and consider it a bargain.
Warrior has one condition remover and one damage mitigation skills, the latter on a very long cd.
I really think the guardian is fine as is – there has to be a trade-off between high damage and high survivability, else you would be immortal and that would not be balanced at all.
PS: Necromancers are especially good at dealing with boons. If you really feel your hp is low, consider sentinel gear.
I’m a healing/tank and I disagree with this. Yes we have multiple skills and virtues. Which also have a massive cooldown in an intense fight. One of our ultimates may renew those virtues they still have a long cooldown. Now look at elementalists. They have 4 different sets of skills which each grant massive bonuses towards them. Pretty much every class has excellent mobility skills. What do we have? A few shouts and 1 swiftness skill. That’ll do good in a fight with people leaping and teleporting to you. Warriors don’t need any skills a guardian has because guardians are for supporting and soaking damage so classes like the warrior can deal as much damage without being shot down. If a warrior had any sort of the skills you said then they would be broken due to shielding and stable defense. They naturally are tanky and mobile while guardians can be built minor tanky with barely any mobility. Guardians need a small increase in health. They are incredibly hard to balance out unless you’re a beserker trash troop.
Edit: Also this is mainly talking about the WvW not some crappy Structured Brawls or Player vs meatbags. In those situations they are great. Don’t give a kitten about. But in WvW the rules are different and there is difficulty to it.
First – we seem to have 2 different threads going on. One is requesting more hp for guardians so they can wear berserker gear and still survive in WvW. To be honest, I do not think they should survive in WvW if they are wearing berserker gear and I hope you agree with me on this. The second thread is what you re saying: that a bunker/healing build should have more hp. While this is not the same request, I still don’t think they should, unless you do it via increasing the effect of vitality meaning all sensible builds would have more hp. Instead I think healing/supporting should be more effective and that way you would keep the people around you alive and well and they would protect you.
PS: I do not think warrior has great mobility skills at all. In WvW in particular very difficult to manage.
But that’s what the OP is trying to make… a damage guardian. And he’s asking for more HP to make it more viable.
The original question of the post is, “Is the amount of HP Guardians have fair?”
I believe it’s fair as it stands. My follow up posts were merely to attempt to help him round out his build to address the weakness he sees in it.
MidnightCorutin, since you suggest that Damage focused guardians are inherently worse than Tank/Healer focused guardian, then wouldn’t you agree that Guardian HP is therefore in a good place? Is it not fair?
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
Damage guardian isn’t what a guardian is suppose to be. They’re the defensive heavy role that combines – a cleric and a knight. They do mediocre damage with high survivability. The guardians you are all complaining about are beserker kitten builds who do nothing but damage and can be easily dominated. I, as a tank/healer, can easily wipe the floor with such filth due to knowing how to play this game and understanding what to do. Damage guardian is nothing to be afraid of. A damage warrior has more hp/tank and damage. This goes for every beserker class except that of maybe a feather class. Which is a feather. Which has not been implemented yet due to being incredibly op.
Edit: I couldn’t care less if they nerfed the hell out of a beserker guardian. I think that’d be a buff and give a true name to guardians. Guardians – Tank. Warrior – Damage.
yeah guardians isnt meant to do the same dmg as a warrior. but they are meant to be able to do dmg and still be viable. which they are not atm. and NO warrior and guardians are not locked into roles. thats what this game is about. you play the role you wanna play
I do not think they’re worse, also this thread isn’t about guardians having more survivability to wear beserker gear. Streps build is not pure damage nor pure tank. I find that my HP is quite high yet in a zerg against 30+ I am dead the second a red ring appears at my feet due to having multiple enemies laying them down. I feel if i had that added hp i’d be atleast able to get out and start laying down protection from the back line until it’s a tiny bit safer frontline. This thread is 1 thread. With 2 different outlooks. Then there is also that look from someone who was just killed by a guardian when they were pure damage and saying they don’t deserve that added hp.
Maybe because Guardians have the best access to both boons and condition removal and on top of that get free Aegis and Regeneration just for being a guardian?
Dying to conditions as a guardian? That’s ridiculous, the proffession which can easily cure 2 conditions passively withite trait investment and has an array of utilities which remove and convert conditions?
Heck you already HAVE those 2k extra health (and in reality even more unless your manage to die in like 5 seconds) by default, it’s called Virtue of Resolve.
(edited by Gaidax.7835)
150/s Is not going to keep you alive from the 2 conditions which can be easily applied straight back by an enemy. Let’s say, hypothetically, that a guardian was up against a necromancer who knew how to do nothing. Now this necro facerolls to use his skills applying at least 3 conditions. You remove 2 while recovering 150/s. Great now you’re invulnerable, oh wait there’s that last condition and what’s this more conditions? The faceroller has applied more than 2. I guess that 150 hp/s is going to save me. You’ve obviously never played a guardian before Gaidax. Play one. Try the builds then get back to me. Some build are made to counter conditions while others are there to do damage and even some to heal. They’re not an all in one build you have to spec between them. Having a bit of all 3 makes you nothing. Gaidax i’m going to ask you this. You give of the impression you know your thief and number 2 key well?
To sum this up:
Some guys (mainly two) want a Guardian that still can laugh at conditions even after all of their bazillion ways to deal with them are on cooldown. Also, we are talking about supporting and you would gladly do a bit less damage if you would get more HP, but the damage you do is too low unless you become one of those “trash trailer thugs” (which you detest) and go for “trash berserker gear” (which is only used by people with no skill) and of course you’re not contradicting yourself even once in this thread.
It seems to me what you want is a Guardian with high HP, high armor, high damage mitigation, high damage output and unlimited instant condition removal.
You are not taking into account the damage mitigation and healing skills the guardian has that other classes (and particularly the warrior) do not. I would trade 8K off the HP of my warrior to get wall of reflection, hold the line, retreat and the aegis virtue and consider it a bargain.
Warrior has one condition remover and one damage mitigation skills, the latter on a very long cd.
I really think the guardian is fine as is – there has to be a trade-off between high damage and high survivability, else you would be immortal and that would not be balanced at all.
PS: Necromancers are especially good at dealing with boons. If you really feel your hp is low, consider sentinel gear.
I’m a healing/tank and I disagree with this. Yes we have multiple skills and virtues. Which also have a massive cooldown in an intense fight. One of our ultimates may renew those virtues they still have a long cooldown. Now look at elementalists. They have 4 different sets of skills which each grant massive bonuses towards them. Pretty much every class has excellent mobility skills. What do we have? A few shouts and 1 swiftness skill. That’ll do good in a fight with people leaping and teleporting to you. Warriors don’t need any skills a guardian has because guardians are for supporting and soaking damage so classes like the warrior can deal as much damage without being shot down. If a warrior had any sort of the skills you said then they would be broken due to shielding and stable defense. They naturally are tanky and mobile while guardians can be built minor tanky with barely any mobility. Guardians need a small increase in health. They are incredibly hard to balance out unless you’re a beserker trash troop.
Edit: Also this is mainly talking about the WvW not some crappy Structured Brawls or Player vs meatbags. In those situations they are great. Don’t give a kitten about. But in WvW the rules are different and there is difficulty to it.
First – we seem to have 2 different threads going on. One is requesting more hp for guardians so they can wear berserker gear and still survive in WvW. To be honest, I do not think they should survive in WvW if they are wearing berserker gear and I hope you agree with me on this. The second thread is what you re saying: that a bunker/healing build should have more hp. While this is not the same request, I still don’t think they should, unless you do it via increasing the effect of vitality meaning all sensible builds would have more hp. Instead I think healing/supporting should be more effective and that way you would keep the people around you alive and well and they would protect you.
PS: I do not think warrior has great mobility skills at all. In WvW in particular very difficult to manage.
what you say about the guardian there is what i want I dont wanna be full bez if u are full bez you should be a glass cannon but what i dont get is why a full bez warr has 19k+ hp with all the same trait points as my 15k hp guard + better toughness or the fact that i need to be almost full bez on my guard to hit a 1k crit the reason i have the magi gear is so i have the prec + healing power to deal some damage + be of some use to my party even with a 2k hp buff a Pure Bez guard would not get much even now i can kill a Bez guard in a 1v1 and be fine and they cant even run away from me because we have the same mobility all i want is a guard that sits in the middle of them both i dont wanna be a bunker but i dont wanna be a full zerker kitten doing nothing but looking cool and letting my team down with my crap hp all the time
+ your PS i don’t think is true the mobility a Warr has from the GS alone is crazy + if u add in a sword and horn and the ult Signet its none stop speed and leaps so long as u don’t have a target u just leap ahead of you and you are far faster then anyone else but thats not the point here
(edited by Streps.9784)
Even with a damage focused guardian you still have access to area denial if your purpose is to heal/get downed allies up.
Melandru runes and/or Lemongrass Poultry soup are more than enough if you have problems with conditions against a big zerg.
To sum this up:
Some guys (mainly two) want a Guardian that still can laugh at conditions even after all of their bazillion ways to deal with them are on cooldown. Also, we are talking about supporting and you would gladly do a bit less damage if you would get more HP, but the damage you do is too low unless you become one of those “trash trailer thugs” (which you detest) and go for “trash berserker gear” (which is only used by people with no skill) and of course you’re not contradicting yourself even once in this thread.
It seems to me what you want is a Guardian with high HP, high armor, high damage mitigation, high damage output and unlimited instant condition removal.
the fact that u have not notice me say a Number of times i don’t want Warr damage shows ur not here to read just here to try and flame all i want is 2k hp more so i can deal with conditions will all of my kitten is one cool down and still be able to hit someone for more then 200 damage
Choosing classes and then choosing builds is all about trade-offs. That’s what makes it interesting. You cannot have it all.
I’m currently playing with a Thief and a Guardian, they both fullfill different roles and have a different playstyle.
Both my Thief and my Guardian can move quickly, yes the Thief is faster, but my Guardian is ahead of the Zerg too in WvW.
My Guardian is currently not set up to deal damage, she is set up to endure and support. And in that she is very good, she takes conditions like a boss (and even removes conditions from allys!) and gives out boons like candy. Never had a problem with conditions or the small health pool.
Now the damage is not great, but that is okay. I could trait and gear her up to deal damage (and have done it before), but that would mean to sacrifice some of the survivability. And even with the reduced survivability compared to the support-setup my Guardian is much more relaxed to play than my Thief, because the class-mechanics of a Guardian are more defensive than of a Thief.
If the Guardian would now get more HP, then I think the Guardian would be overpowered. The trade-off between taking damage and dealing damage would be too slim to matter. Then you wouldn’t need to decide what’s better, it would be already decided by the classmechanics.
Additionly as mentioned earlier in the thread the Guardian has a ton of viable options to succesfully gear and trait. Many aspects and styles of fighting in the game can be done in a succesfully manner by the Guardian, an ability that most of the classes do not have. I would like to see ArenaNet fix the other classes first, before dealing with very minor “problems” as the Guardian having not enough hp.
If you play a Guardian be happy. You have one of the best, most viable and most diverse class in the game.
ok so now your saying i should get awesome if i drop my staff for a sword
Nope, I didn’t say that. I addressed your concerns. Guardian has many tools akittens disposal. A good guardian knows when to equip them. May I suggest that in addition to carrying a gswd and staff that you have a sword, shield, focus, scepter.
Can you equip them all at the same time? Of course not. Know when you need one and when you need another.
i get flashing blade now i have 1 tele every w/e its cool down
Ten seconds. And you get the nice bonus of Sword having really good single target DPS. Plus, if you have an offhand focus, you also can pop the shield on it.
since i have a bonus to 2 handed wep cool downs
This trait really could go either way, imo. I personally don’t use it (I use Empowering Might, but that’s just me). I can understand wanting to use it if you’re going Gswd/Staff. If you’re worried about leaping, what’s better, though? An 8 second leap, or a 10 second leap and a 10 second teleport?
Retreat Ok yeah that’s along swiftness with a nice huge cool down to match it even with the shout trait
Save your self i already use this if i use that in a group fight i get a pile of conditions and i bleed to death ok in 1v1 its probably the best utility skill i have ever had
List of swiftness boosts for cutting travel time. I also recommend Pure of Voice since you’re a shout build. Save Yourselves→ Retreat to scrub any pesky condition you might have on you.
Judge’s intervention Ok now i can use that but i have to drop a shout and since i have the shout cool down i guess i could swap it out for my 3ed utility now i no longer have retreat but a target tele that has a nice long cool down that seems like a good plan to me
Any good guardian will know when to use the proper tool at the proper time. Equip it before combat if you feel like you’ve been lagging behind. Everyone faces opportunity costs. How you learn to deal with it is what takes you from a normal player into an excellent player.
awesome plan now go look at how a warr moves around and see if you can keep up with all of his dash and leap skills or even a ele or even a thief
Again, you’re really trying to make the guardian something it’s not by asking for more tools to catch up in mobility with certain classes such as Ele and Thf. (who have to trade off certain things to gain that mobility, btw)
I seem to recall you wanting your Guardian to heal your allies and be able to chase off an enemy who might try to stomp an ally, not chase down some of the most mobile classes in wvw. If you want to do that, you’re going to need to sacrifice something for it. You can’t be good at everything all the time. The nice thing about Guardian is that you’ve got the option to be good as lots of things at different times with Minimal Gear/Utility swaps.
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
If you read this post like you say you do. Then you realise this thread is about giving guardians that added extra hp to stay in the fight longer. There’s been no request to give them more damage/armor/condition removal blah blah. I haven’t contradicted myself because I am here to support someone with a similiar interest to a class i greatly enjoy. I wouldn’t mind having more hp, but at the moment guardians that are bunker can get melted pretty easily unless you go for a certain skills/builds. To get half of these things people are saying they have to sacrifice multiple things in a build. If we want mobility i have to get rid of certain traits/skills to be able to. To get more damage i’d have to sacrifice my healing and hp so i can be of no use to my team. I hate beserker builds due to their oh so common existence and how they’re exploited in certain ways. There are multiple threads discussing them i don’t care. I’m here wanting to get the guardian a little buff so that they’re on par with other classes survivability.
To sum this up:
Some guys (mainly two) want a Guardian that still can laugh at conditions even after all of their bazillion ways to deal with them are on cooldown. Also, we are talking about supporting and you would gladly do a bit less damage if you would get more HP, but the damage you do is too low unless you become one of those “trash trailer thugs” (which you detest) and go for “trash berserker gear” (which is only used by people with no skill) and of course you’re not contradicting yourself even once in this thread.
It seems to me what you want is a Guardian with high HP, high armor, high damage mitigation, high damage output and unlimited instant condition removal.
the fact that u have not notice me say a Number of times i don’t want Warr damage shows ur not here to read just here to try and flame all i want is 2k hp more so i can deal with conditions will all of my kitten is one cool down and still be able to hit someone for more then 200 damage
i don’t want to be a full zerker guard at all the fact that i need so much zerker gear to hit basic crits that most classes take for granted is crazy i would rather have more hp gear or more toughness gear or even more healing gear but hell to get that my crit rate goes down to less then 10%
all i want is 2k hp more so i can deal with conditions will all of my kitten is one cool down and still be able to hit someone for more then 200 damage
2k HP = 200 more vitality, btw.
Convert some zerker to valkyrie.
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
Any good guardian will know having a high HP doesn’t necessary mean it’s better. Think it’s been said before, but the sweet spot hp for guardians is somewhere around 15-18k It’s actually much more valuable to have a lower hp pool and have high damage migration/reduction than to have a high hp.
ok so now your saying i should get awesome if i drop my staff for a sword
Nope, I didn’t say that. I addressed your concerns. Guardian has many tools akittens disposal. A good guardian knows when to equip them. May I suggest that in addition to carrying a gswd and staff that you have a sword, shield, focus, scepter.
Can you equip them all at the same time? Of course not. Know when you need one and when you need another.
i get flashing blade now i have 1 tele every w/e its cool down
Ten seconds. And you get the nice bonus of Sword having really good single target DPS. Plus, if you have an offhand focus, you also can pop the shield on it.
since i have a bonus to 2 handed wep cool downs
This trait really could go either way, imo. I personally don’t use it (I use Empowering Might, but that’s just me). I can understand wanting to use it if you’re going Gswd/Staff. If you’re worried about leaping, what’s better, though? An 8 second leap, or a 10 second leap and a 10 second teleport?
Retreat Ok yeah that’s along swiftness with a nice huge cool down to match it even with the shout trait
Save your self i already use this if i use that in a group fight i get a pile of conditions and i bleed to death ok in 1v1 its probably the best utility skill i have ever hadList of swiftness boosts for cutting travel time. I also recommend Pure of Voice since you’re a shout build. Save Yourselves-> Retreat to scrub any pesky condition you might have on you.
Judge’s intervention Ok now i can use that but i have to drop a shout and since i have the shout cool down i guess i could swap it out for my 3ed utility now i no longer have retreat but a target tele that has a nice long cool down that seems like a good plan to me
Any good guardian will know when to use the proper tool at the proper time. Equip it before combat if you feel like you’ve been lagging behind. Everyone faces opportunity costs. How you learn to deal with it is what takes you from a normal player into an excellent player.
awesome plan now go look at how a warr moves around and see if you can keep up with all of his dash and leap skills or even a ele or even a thief
Again, you’re really trying to make the guardian something it’s not by asking for more tools to catch up in mobility with certain classes such as Ele and Thf. (who have to trade off certain things to gain that mobility, btw)
I seem to recall you wanting your Guardian to heal your allies and be able to chase off an enemy who might try to stomp an ally, not chase down some of the most mobile classes in wvw. If you want to do that, you’re going to need to sacrifice something for it. You can’t be good at everything all the time. The nice thing about Guardian is that you’ve got the option to be good as lots of things at different times with Minimal Gear/Utility swaps.
i respect everything you have said here because u are in fact right and yes i don’t want to have more leaps and all that in fact i could not care less at the fact im so slow the fact of the matter is no matter how u look at this no matter how hard you try to hide there is no middle ground for the guard your a damage dealer or a tank and everyone seems to wanna force it one way or another why cant i do a little of both and 1 guys said 2k hp extra that would be fantastic and would not make a difference to glass cannon zerkers because they would still die just as quick some people say to drop some of my zerker armor for tank armor again forgetting that no matter what i drop my crit damage will go so low i may as well go a bunker or my crit chance will go so low i may as well be a bunker
I do not think they’re worse, also this thread isn’t about guardians having more survivability to wear beserker gear. Streps build is not pure damage nor pure tank. I find that my HP is quite high yet in a zerg against 30+ I am dead the second a red ring appears at my feet due to having multiple enemies laying them down. I feel if i had that added hp i’d be atleast able to get out and start laying down protection from the back line until it’s a tiny bit safer frontline. This thread is 1 thread. With 2 different outlooks. Then there is also that look from someone who was just killed by a guardian when they were pure damage and saying they don’t deserve that added hp.
Streps gear is 9/12 berserker (no added vitality) 3/12 magi (vitality as secondary). I don’t know/care what he does with his traits, there is much more vitality to be had from gear than the 300 from traits. Based on his posts, yes, this is about having more hp in order to be viable in berserker gear. And my view remains, if he needs more hp , then he can add vitality, it is very simple. I have no sympathy for berserkers dying in WvW in general, not only guardians. Berserkers are not meant to tank – end of story. So what remains is how to add hp to a support guardian (who presumably has enough vitality), without adding to berserker geared guardians.
And do consider that in a zerg of 30+ every class feels that if they had this bit of added HP/toughness/mobility they would just be able to get away and recover. We would all like more hp/toughness/mobility – we are all overwhelmed in zerg situations.
PS: The “you don’t see X build needs Y buff cause you just died to it” argument always makes me smile.
I’ve got an excellent Guard build although it’d be nice if they were able to have that added extra like each class has. Warrior: Spastic High hp, ranger: A portable sex toy, thief: invis, ele: mobility, necro: 2 hp bars, engineer: insane amount of blocks <3, mesmer: clones. Guards have healing but in cost of low hp. This healing has also been nerfed quite a bit. Where as most of the other classes have not. Thieves has a reveal, doesn’t impact much. I’m unsure of the other classes because i care not for them
Easy way to make berserker builds get the same amount of hp. Give beserker gear (-) Vitaility. I could give no care to that build. Even a full hp guard is lacking in either healing/toughness due to sacrificing them.
PS to your PS sire: I’m glad I could, also even if there is only a group of around 10-13ish i will get melted by them.
(edited by MidnightCorutin.7084)
ok im gonna say it again just because no one seems to notice the fact that
I DON’T WANT TO BE A BEZ GUARD THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IM TRYING TO FINED A MIDDLE GROUND THAT GUARDS DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE
Sorry for the caps but i im kinda getting sick of saying i don’t wanna be a bez guard in fact if i could drop bez gear and some how maintain the ability to hit harder then a wet sponge that would be awesome
i have no sympathy for Pure bez classes melting in WvW im just saying why cant i beable to hit someone hard enough to make a difference and be able to give out some support
What’s your crit chance sitting at right now? Given your descriptions, I can only guess it’s around 40%. Swapping 200 precision to 200 vit will drop your crit by 9.5%. While that might seem like a chunk, it’s really not the end of the world.
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
guardians don’t need high hp because of their crazy sustain
Auger Claw (PvE/Spvp) – Thief
Notalkingplz (PvE/Spvp) – Guardian
Rough Trade (PvE)/Urok Ashpaw (Spvp) – Engineer
Notalkingplz (PvE/Spvp) – Guardian
Rough Trade (PvE)/Urok Ashpaw (Spvp) – Engineer
What’s your crit chance sitting at right now? Given your descriptions, I can only guess it’s around 40%. Swapping 200 precision to 200 vit will drop your crit by 9.5%. While that might seem like a chunk, it’s really not the end of the world.
The nasty part is my best Prec comes from my magi gear that also gives me hp + healing if i drop my Bez gear my crit damage falls right out trust me i tried i actually loose 15-20% crit damage making me hit like a wet noodle with bad tank
Put it this way. You have the same health as an ele and a thief, and they have weaker armor. Is that fair? lol
Thats interesting, cos my Ele has 24K hp, but my guardian has only 18K – both stacking vitality.
I’d say therefore, that Guards do not have the same HP as Ele’s.
Then your armor and the stats you’ve put points into are affecting the total. You can put vitality armor on guardians if you want. This isn’t a guess, it’s a fact.
Base hit points for thieves, eles and guardians are EQUAL.
For more info check out this wiki page.
yes but to get the same hp to damage ratio i would have to have no hp guardian already has almost no mobility so now i have no mobility no hp high damage and okish armor with some buffs to give me protection and regen fantastic against maybe a tank melee class but not against conditions or other Bez classes because they have more fight control then a guard
HP to damage ratio isn’t the point, though. The only way to make it “fair” for all professions is to make all professions identcle. The second you change ONE aspect, you suddenly have professions that are better at some things and worse at others. You don’t NEED to have the same damage output as a warrior in a support profession. It’s not reasonable.
ITT: OP runs pretty much a berserker Guardian build and then cries about melting in WvW. Really.
Not to call you (the OP) out too harshly on this, but most players are going to melt when they’re caught on the back foot in WvW with those types of builds. My recommendation – learn how to actually play a Guardian by experimenting with builds and gear setups. Once you’ve learned the class and how to play, if you still feel that it deserves more HP, then revisit this topic.
I fully agree madmonkey , its a simple L2P.
(yes i know , i know i know)
I never expect to lose. Even when I’m the Engineer , I still prepare a victory speech.
What’s your crit chance sitting at right now? Given your descriptions, I can only guess it’s around 40%. Swapping 200 precision to 200 vit will drop your crit by 9.5%. While that might seem like a chunk, it’s really not the end of the world.
The nasty part is my best Prec comes from my magi gear that also gives me hp + healing if i drop my Bez gear my crit damage falls right out trust me i tried i actually loose 15-20% crit damage making me hit like a wet noodle with bad tank
Converting from Berserker to Valkyrie leaves your power and crit damage intact and swaps precision for vitality. Since 21 precision = 1% crit chance, 200 precision loss would be a ~9.5% crit chance reduction. Then again, it’s 4 am, so my math might be off. Anyone care to check me?
How much +healing power are you actually getting out of your Magi gear?
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
Put it this way. You have the same health as an ele and a thief, and they have weaker armor. Is that fair? lol
Thats interesting, cos my Ele has 24K hp, but my guardian has only 18K – both stacking vitality.
I’d say therefore, that Guards do not have the same HP as Ele’s.
Then your armor and the stats you’ve put points into are affecting the total. You can put vitality armor on guardians if you want. This isn’t a guess, it’s a fact.
Base hit points for thieves, eles and guardians are EQUAL.
For more info check out this wiki page.
yes but to get the same hp to damage ratio i would have to have no hp guardian already has almost no mobility so now i have no mobility no hp high damage and okish armor with some buffs to give me protection and regen fantastic against maybe a tank melee class but not against conditions or other Bez classes because they have more fight control then a guard
HP to damage ratio isn’t the point, though. The only way to make it “fair” for all professions is to make all professions identcle. The second you change ONE aspect, you suddenly have professions that are better at some things and worse at others. You don’t NEED to have the same damage output as a warrior in a support profession. It’s not reasonable.
But None of the classes are = in what way is a thief = to a Ele in what way is a warr = to a Necro i never said i want the same damage as a Warr in fact to get the same damage as a warr i would have to drop all my support and be another dps pile of poo
why cant i deal ok damage and do ok healing In the middle
the hole point of this thread is not if im in bez in fact not even the fact that i deal damage or not its the fact that a Guard has such low hp that unless he is a Bunker build for support He cannot support and risk pulling conditions with out dropping a Big Chunk of his damage This thread got way off track but hey ok suddenly its all i wanna be a full bez guard and have more hp…
Ok, to try to be less harsh about it, think about it this way – just about every class and build has to make sacrifices here or there to achieve certain performance envelopes. We could probably sit down around the campfire and come up with wishlists for most builds out there that would make them just stupendously superb. Would it be fun? Yeah, probably. Would it be a good balancing job letting us have our cake and eat it too? Probably not.
For what I THINK you ultimately want to have in terms of a build, if you are being straight about it, is definitely workable. You just have to think your build fully through and accept that certain things might not be as strong as you want them to be – but that the middle ground IS there.
(edited by madmonkey.4138)
Well, my part of this fun debate was over and finished a long time ago.
I believe i wasn’t really paying much attention to your parts aswell as i was paying attention to my own/streps and the others Digital.
I was also unsure of the stats between: Valkyrie and Berserker :P
Let me get this right Streps, your running 0/0/10/30/30 with zerker armour and magi accessories? I’m not sure that works particularly well as a build. It would be useful if you could actually post your full build and gear set up as I suspect it could be improved to help you better meet your needs.
Off the top of my head my guardian uses something like the build linked below and does decent enough damage with good survivability and condition removal.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.0|2.1g.0|1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x|4s.0.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1c.67|0.0.u65b.u298.a2|0.0|v.16.19.18.1i|e
Guardians really don’t need an HP boost at all. I have a Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Ele, Guardian and Thief all at 80 and all of which I play in WvW and I think guardian is probably the most well rounded and flexible class of them all.
What’s your crit chance sitting at right now? Given your descriptions, I can only guess it’s around 40%. Swapping 200 precision to 200 vit will drop your crit by 9.5%. While that might seem like a chunk, it’s really not the end of the world.
The nasty part is my best Prec comes from my magi gear that also gives me hp + healing if i drop my Bez gear my crit damage falls right out trust me i tried i actually loose 15-20% crit damage making me hit like a wet noodle with bad tank
Converting from Berserker to Valkyrie leaves your power and crit damage intact and swaps precision for vitality. Since 21 precision = 1% crit chance, 200 precision loss would be a ~9.5% crit chance reduction. Then again, it’s 4 am, so my math might be off. Anyone care to check me?
How much +healing power are you actually getting out of your Magi gear?
my magi gear gives me a nice number of 800+ healing giving all of my aoe heals about 2k for everyone they hit (from my staff) + with the crit damage i have
But on my end the might have a solution and that’s all i wanted from this thread was some solutions to the sad hp/ damage of the guard they are a fantastic class in all round i just hate being melted by conditions when i try to help my friends but dropping the bez for valk will give me around 39-35% crit chance and that sounds like it could still work
thank you for that it could be all i was looking for
but all in all this thread was good fun i found out a few things i didn’t know about guards and also allot of people cant read when all they wanna do is flame i thank everyone who gave me help full info
WvW is different compared to SPvP and PvE. You don’t realise this because you’ve never seen the differences that are between the 3.
10,6k base hp with lowest dps and no viable ranged option in my opinion no.
Guardian is already one of the sturdiest professions in the game, with one of the highest amounts of viable builds.
You are wrong.
Let me get this right Streps, your running 0/0/10/30/30 with zerker armour and magi accessories? I’m not sure that works particularly well as a build. It would be useful if you could actually post your full build and gear set up as I suspect it could be improved to help you better meet your needs.
Off the top of my head my guardian uses something like the build linked below and does decent enough damage with good survivability and condition removal.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.0|2.1g.0|1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x.1c.7x|4s.0.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1c.67|0.0.u65b.u298.a2|0.0|v.16.19.18.1i|eGuardians really don’t need an HP boost at all. I have a Warrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Ele, Guardian and Thief all at 80 and all of which I play in WvW and I think guardian is probably the most well rounded and flexible class of them all.
i have everything but ele and i only play wvw (they are all 80 all geared out) and to be honest when it comes down to it i think thief using d/p is really since you can still put out large hp with high damage and perma blind and Bez classes you come across
I love my guard and to me the hp is a flaw but its a flaw i will have to get used to and work around and im sure ill fined something really in the end i wanted a damage healer class but its seems pretty steep to ask of everyone thinks i wanna be pure damage with high hp when i would rather have more hp and healing but still hit with some force
O well im done here was interesting enough but that’s all from me
Guardian is already one of the sturdiest professions in the game, with one of the highest amounts of viable builds.
You are wrong.
No, for a change, he clearly isn’t wrong.
@OP as someone who mains a guard, yes that low base hp pool is entirely fair.
the build youve linked saturn clearly shows you dont play a guardian.. i mean,, only 10 in valor? lawl xD
the build youve linked saturn clearly shows you dont play a guardian.. i mean,, only 10 in valor? lawl xD
So what? Altruistic healing? I think you already get enough healing with this build.
Guardian is already one of the sturdiest professions in the game, with one of the highest amounts of viable builds.
You are wrong.
Saying someone is wrong does not make that person wrong. If you have some evidence, go ahead. I think you’ll find that many professions in this game only have 2-3 viable builds…not all, but certainly guardians have more viable builds than necros, engies and probably eles at very least. Probably rangers too.
If you have evidence to suggest otherwise, have at it. If you just want to say I’m wrong, it doesn’t count for anything.
the build youve linked saturn clearly shows you dont play a guardian.. i mean,, only 10 in valor? lawl xD
So what? Altruistic healing? I think you already get enough healing with this build.
ask any guardian ever… you need 30 in valor for every build ever..you might be able to do open world pve with that build. if you are lucky.. but no. you dont have enough healing
Guardian Test
01 Do you think guardian is underpowered and needs more HP;
—— If yes, go to 02
—— If no, go to 03
02 You have no idea how to play a guardian
—— If you are willing to improve, go to 04
—— If you are not willing to improve, go to 05
03 You understand the importance of regen, dodge heals, aegis, protection, condition removal, blind, etc, go to 06
04 Read up on some of the builds and learn to use the myriad of mitigation abilities guardians have, a 13k HP guardian is more survivable than a 25k HP warrior, by a long stretch
05 Fail
06 Well done, now go out there and pwn