Guild Wars 2

more hp, i just loled my kitten .

I hate the low hp.. but it is quit fair.. we deal decent dmg, good migration and easy access to con removal stuff..
If ya not happy about a low hp-pool roll necro or war:D

There are enough ways for guardians to mitigate damage other than vitality. Once you learn to exploit those mechanics to their potential, you’ll see why guardians have such a low health pool. I believe the question to this thread has been answered based by the silence of the OP.

guardian has crazy access to condition removal through skills and light combo fields

greatsword condition removal is pretty nice even on low levels.

chaining gs #4 and #2 will grant retal and remove all conditions on you

Bash.7291:

….. /facepalm Can’t tell of just trolling at this point, or is so obsessed with AH that there is no other build in the game for him.

Man I have never said that AH is the only build for a Guardian , I have only said that the AH build & the Cleric-support build are the only 2 usefull builds in large wvw fight.I think that I haven’t said something strange but just the true and who think different is just a pug in wvw and have really to L2P. Meditation build and the one posted on the video some post ago are surely better vs AH in 1 vs 1 and I know that , I’m the first one that think that AH build sucks in roaming or dueling but I play with my guild and we are always 15 or more and with certain numbers AH build shining especially if you have other guardians with you , always a lot of buff , condition always transformed in boon a lot of regen , protection , retaliation …

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

No Christos’s build is not more supportive then Ah build , the only thing that He do better is the amount of dodge-heal but he suffer a lot more than me condition damage , In a 20-20 or more he dies surely before of me ‘cause you can be focused a lot more than simply from 3-4 characters.People you just don’t have to be suprised of the videos of the other , they never post all the time that they loose…

……I agree with bash now, i can’t tell if trolling. AH is really selfish tbh, and i fail to see it as supportive as a chris’s build, I mean when chris’s build gives out boons, they last a lot long then someone who’s just pumping the AH build to get heals, also the mass amount of group cond removal!.. The only thing that makes AH build work is grouping and using staff or hammer with X weapon swap or both. Which you can also sub in with Chris’s build depending on your play style. I just think there is a little bit to much closed mindedness on your part, or more less experience.

Now just imagine if i had allies with me in those situations, would have been a cinch. I’ve also ran with a [KH] buddy of mine who also runs the same build but different weapon load out. When we go out small group roaming (5-10) we can take groups twice our size, and still come up on top. Though likely hood of us changing/opening your mind to something besides AH build is very unlikely, due to the nature of your answers. /shrug

Lucentfir I play since beta with guardian , everytime people sayd that healway is better but everytime you post a roaming video.I have said that for roaming AH build suck!!You have just to imagine that your battle are just a skirmishes respect the real WvW, with your Hp in a large battle (like 25-30 vs 50) with just 1 error you go down, try to do a little bit real WvW.I’m not sayng that your build is not good or that you are not good with your guardian but simply that is more oriented for skirmishesthat zerg fight.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Lucentfir I play since beta with guardian , everytime people sayd that healway is better but everytime you post a roaming video.I have said that for roaming AH build suck!!You have just to imagine that your battle are just a skirmishes respect the real WvW, with your Hp in a large battle (like 25-30 vs 50) with just 1 error you go down, try to do a little bit real WvW.I’m not sayng that your build is not good or that you are not good with your guardian but simply that is more oriented for skirmishesthat zerg fight.

While I respect you’re a beta player but honestly real WvW is all about zerging. tbh it doesn’t really matter, all that matters in real WvW who has a bigger zerg and a better commander that’s it, that’s all what real WvW is really. The only time you actually go down is if you aren’t careful/aware(Like not knowing when to jump in or pull out) or you’re overextending. This really goes for any other profession build in a zerg play smart and you won’t get downed(Also listening to the good commander)

Does a build matter in zvz at all? I feel like I could come as anything and contribute enough.

Well,

I thought that maybe I would try to consider the original HP question posted here.

For one I found it actually interesting that the guardians share the lowest HP rank with thieves and eles, while necromancers land in highest tiers with warrior. To be honest from the class descriptions I wouldn’t guess just that fact. And i wouldn’t think the difference is that high.

But is this fair on unfair, it’s a hard question. From my own experience, I do play guardian, but PvE so I can only say that for this purpose the HP i got is quite fine. (I do have 30/30 on toughness/vitality so this might have something to do with. )

I can see that for PvP / WvW the rules will be different. For example having 10% damage reduction and 1/3 protection seems good, but if you only have 60% of the health then it’s practically the same vs direct damage, but not for conditions. There is passive regeneration but compared to high HP class this means something if the fight can last more than 1 minute.

I think it’s certainly a bit trickier to play guardian than for example a warrior, because you have to compensate the pure HP with skills use to achieve same survival. I believe that with good enough skills you can out-survive other classes in group fight, but that doesn’t mean you can win a direct fight against a skilled opponent. Maybe that is not really “fair”, but maybe it is not meant to be “fair” that way.

One thing I can agree that (at least according to class description) the guardian should be the “most durable profession in the game”, if it’s not maybe there is a need for some tweaks. A pure HP buff would probably be a bad idea though.

For me personally if there was a way of for example sacrificing 30% of power to gain 30% of health i would take it, because it fits more my idea of guardian, but I can imagine for others this would be absolutely
unacceptable.

Lucentfir on the real WvW not always the bigger zerg win. With my guild (20 people are enough) we can easily kick a zerg of 40 with a good tactic and remember this:
a good guild with nice people with the right builds can pown easily bigger zerg if they aren’t well prepared.Every character , every builds we have are complementary and works surely better (everyone have something to do) respect people that think that WvW is all about zerging.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Lucentfir I play since beta with guardian , everytime people sayd that healway is better but everytime you post a roaming video.I have said that for roaming AH build suck!!You have just to imagine that your battle are just a skirmishes respect the real WvW, with your Hp in a large battle (like 25-30 vs 50) with just 1 error you go down, try to do a little bit real WvW.I’m not sayng that your build is not good or that you are not good with your guardian but simply that is more oriented for skirmishesthat zerg fight.

Playing since beta means nothing… if anything it means you started playing on an outdated version of what we have now… I never understand why people think it means anything.

I want to point this out real quick, but you do realize that healing power scales much better with more toughness and a lower health pool compared to less toughness and a higher health pool correct? The smaller the hits you take, the easier it is to heal with a large healing power amount.

At 1200 healing power, which I think is close to what he runs, dodge roll heals for 1329 per roll, to all allies, regeneration ticks for 280, Virute of resolve passive ticks for 156, along with mango pies ticking for 88 per second, thats a total of 524 per SECOND. without dodge roll, virtue of resolve use, healing skill use, or any other outside healing. That is double his health pool per minute before other heals. AND the build gives massive AOE uptime on boons, along with AoE stun break on virtue of courage use, and also aoe condition removal. Please explain to me how AH is better in ANY type of gameplay compared to this build.

Hubal.8571:

For me personally if there was a way of for example sacrificing 30% of power to gain 30% of health i would take it, because it fits more my idea of guardian, but I can imagine for others this would be absolutely
unacceptable.

You are correct, I find that notion very unacceptable.

Bash can you read what I wrote?I haven’t sayd that Ah is better in any type of gameplay but in mass pvp like wvw and maybe for PvE because we can survive a lot too and do more damage respect to your build, You have surely more regeneration respect me but I have somthing too , your dodge roll heals for 1329 mine for 500 but I have more HP for resist to a lot of players focusing me , I heal my self for about 1000 every shout plus I convert aoe 1 condition in boon and I loose 1 condition thanks to rune of the soldier , my virtue of resolve use is similar to yours 1850 vs 2525.I need just to switch from hammer to staff for a 6500 heal extra.I have one passive condition removal every 10 seconds + 6 condition that I can remove thanks to shout every time.If a Necro that know well how to play target you all the buff that you have with this “near perma-self your self” will make you cry and with you other 4 allies.At the end you are surely good with more regen than me , I perfectly know that but I repeat In a large group fight with that hp you will go down easily with no time of dodge-block ecc ecc. 5 person that Hit you at the same time (and in large WvW fight it’s easy) and you go down.I can hit you for 3.5-5 k damage with a mighty blow plus other 4 guardian with the same build of mine and you kiss the ground (without the counting aoe skills of other people). Try to moltiplicate 3.5 X 5 and you know the answer.

Teamkiller.4315:

Hubal.8571:

For me personally if there was a way of for example sacrificing 30% of power to gain 30% of health i would take it, because it fits more my idea of guardian, but I can imagine for others this would be absolutely
unacceptable.

You are correct, I find that notion very unacceptable.

^^^^

I like my damage builds thank you.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Man I have never said that AH is the only build for a Guardian , I have only said that the AH build & the Cleric-support build are the only 2 usefull builds in large wvw fight.

That simply your opinion that some people here don’t agree with. The thing that’s offensive is when it’s put on a pedestal with absolute certainly through words like “ONLY”. What makes these two builds the ONLY useful ones in that situation? These are NOT the only useful builds in that situation because there are other roles in that situation that are needed to be successful that Guardians can fill. It’s absolute rubbish when I read statements like you made there.

Nikaido.3457:

Oh yes it does matter a lot. If you die you’ll make a lot of enemies rally. So zerg vs zerg is all about being bunky as hell. “Come as anything and contribute enough” ? if you come as zerker and go down inside the zerg you let other people in the enemy zerg rally on you.
This isn’t PVE. In wvwvw being a good bunker is king because wvwvw is all about the zerg and people dying in your zerg are a huge liability.

And a coordinated guild run zerg will do a lot better than a random zerg of players who aren’t using the right builds. Having things like having constant retaliation in your group can make a lot of difference.

The only time I played zvz as a guardian I just spammed staff autoattacks to tag as many people as possible (in that process I was doing a lot of damage) and literally never went down. zvz isn’t pvp either, it’s mostly about having bigger numbers and spamming combo fields plus finishers. It’s very casual and unbalanced, imho it doesn’t matter what you run.

Yeah, deleting this post, pretty much the same thing Lucentfir says below, My wording was just horrible lol.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Bash can you read what I wrote?I haven’t sayd that Ah is better in any type of gameplay but in mass pvp like wvw and maybe for PvE because we can survive a lot too and do more damage respect to your build, You have surely more regeneration respect me but I have somthing too , your dodge roll heals for 1329 mine for 500 but I have more HP for resist to a lot of players focusing me , I heal my self for about 1000 every shout plus I convert aoe 1 condition in boon and I loose 1 condition thanks to rune of the soldier , my virtue of resolve use is similar to yours 1850 vs 2525.I need just to switch from hammer to staff for a 6500 heal extra.I have one passive condition removal every 10 seconds + 6 condition that I can remove thanks to shout every time.If a Necro that know well how to play target you all the buff that you have with this “near perma-self your self” will make you cry and with you other 4 allies.At the end you are surely good with more regen than me , I perfectly know that but I repeat In a large group fight with that hp you will go down easily with no time of dodge-block ecc ecc. 5 person that Hit you at the same time (and in large WvW fight it’s easy) and you go down.I can hit you for 3.5-5 k damage with a mighty blow plus other 4 guardian with the same build of mine and you kiss the ground (without the counting aoe skills of other people). Try to moltiplicate 3.5 X 5 and you know the answer.

Are you talking out of experience or is this what you’re assuming what would happen? You aren’t factoring in Armor damage reduction with protection, regeneration blocks or anything.You are just assuming a person will stand there? He doesn’t have stablity/stun breaks, anti bursts or condition removal right? Also Lawl really 5k damage? Maybe on a upleveled squishy target maybe, but on my other guard who i run zerkers on the most I’d be able to hit a bunker Guardian on crit with would be around the 2-3k mark with mighty Blow. I’m going to go ahead and say you’re only assuming how things would turn out.

If they buffed our HP they would eviscerate our healing. I’d say just leave it where it is.

No is exactly what would happen during a inc Lucentfir.When you charge you take some damage and you can be focused easily (A front-line soldier is the one who take the major damage ) You surely can have protection for damage mitigation and stability when you charge but at the same time you risk to be dazed-stunned or immobilized in just 1 second because there are mesmers that play a lot of times Null Field on first line , you will lost stability and you go down for the multiple attack.
I hit 3k-3,5k to heavy armored class and from 4,5k to 6 k on the others.When I charge with my ally we always stack might and buff and I can go easily to 4150 attack with 60% crit rate (thanks to warriors shout , 40% without it) and 57% crit damage with 3 k armor and 20 k Hp.I will do a screen later to demonstrate it (I have sigil of fire too on hammer so I doa little bit more aoe damage ) It’s late now and it’s time to go to sleep for me xD

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

No is exactly what would happen during a inc Lucentfir.When you charge you take some damage and you can be focused easily (A front-line soldier is the one who take the major damage ) You surely can have protection for damage mitigation and stability when you charge but at the same time you risk to be dazed-stunned or immobilized in just 1 second because there are mesmers that play a lot of times Null Field on first line , you will lost stability and you go down for the multiple attack.
I hit 3k-3,5k to heavy armored class and from 4,5k to 6 k on the others.When I charge with my ally we always stack might and buff and I can go easily to 4150 attack with 60% crit rate (thanks to warriors shout , 40% without it) and 57% crit damage with 3 k armor and 20 k Hp.I will do a screen later to demonstrate it (I have sigil of fire too on hammer so I doa little bit more aoe damage ) It’s late now and it’s time to go to sleep for me xD

A) this is assuming someone is charging completely alone, and without anyone else, which is stupid and that person deserves to die.
B) this is assuming the person does not run in using shelter, renewed focus, or dodge rolls, which is once again kinda stupid.
C) Still assuming the person is just going to run in standard and not use a gap closer like flashing blade or leap of faith, both of which AoE blind making the people you land around miss you completely. Also JI which is awesome because you can just jump past the front line and cause havoc, and also allows you to completely bypass any fields laid in front.
D) You are also assuming that everyone in the zerg is going to target the same person, which once again with multiple people charging in, is very unlikely.

Bash.7291:

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

No is exactly what would happen during a inc Lucentfir.When you charge you take some damage and you can be focused easily (A front-line soldier is the one who take the major damage ) You surely can have protection for damage mitigation and stability when you charge but at the same time you risk to be dazed-stunned or immobilized in just 1 second because there are mesmers that play a lot of times Null Field on first line , you will lost stability and you go down for the multiple attack.
I hit 3k-3,5k to heavy armored class and from 4,5k to 6 k on the others.When I charge with my ally we always stack might and buff and I can go easily to 4150 attack with 60% crit rate (thanks to warriors shout , 40% without it) and 57% crit damage with 3 k armor and 20 k Hp.I will do a screen later to demonstrate it (I have sigil of fire too on hammer so I doa little bit more aoe damage ) It’s late now and it’s time to go to sleep for me xD

A) this is assuming someone is charging completely alone, and without anyone else, which is stupid and that person deserves to die.
B) this is assuming the person does not run in using shelter, renewed focus, or dodge rolls, which is once again kinda stupid.
C) Still assuming the person is just going to run in standard and not use a gap closer like flashing blade or leap of faith, both of which AoE blind making the people you land around miss you completely. Also JI which is awesome because you can just jump past the front line and cause havoc, and also allows you to completely bypass any fields laid in front.
D) You are also assuming that everyone in the zerg is going to target the same person, which once again with multiple people charging in, is very unlikely.

He is kinda right if you played GvG zerg in wvw, your 500hp per second isnt going to save you from that. After you used shelter/RF (2x virtues spam for hp) and 3/4 dodgerolls + shout spam you will still get pressured hard. This pressure can be handled better by staff #4 (with AH obviously) on a 16s cd filling your hp from 20% to full then to rely on 500 hp/s.

But i must admit, healway is probably godmode in GvPug or PugVPug :p

Dude… did you ever tried other class?

My guardian has…

1) Great survivality (3200 armor) and around 16k hp’s and on top of this aegis, vigor, blind, protection and invulnerability ( and I don’t even use a shield),

2) Good offensive power, 50% crit chance with 75% crit damage and 2K power, any class who dares to fight melee against me will find a stonewall and a lot of pain,

3) Great condicion cleansing via shouts and runes of the soldiers, purity and my signet,

4) Awesome group support,

5) Gorgeous traits as HA and purity of voice, (I love the guardian traits),

I don’t use to say this (except on the thief forum) but this is a l2p issue, my main is a necro but my guardian is my 2° favourite profession by far and i’m in love with it, we DON’T need any kind of tweak at this moment,

I can get 18k HP, 2.8k Armor, 30% Crit, 70% Crit Damage, 2.9k Attack Power, +310 Healing, with the ability to remove conditions passively through traits / healing signet, with utilities which give me stability for 10 seconds, an instant teleport ontop of the enemy, and an PBAoE that does more damage if it cures a condition when used, which also heal me when used with short 24 – 64 second cooldowns… not to mention the buffs from virtues when I used them…

You lost all credibility as a Guardian & Warrior Player the moment you said Warrior’s had more condition removal and survivability.

Thus, I can only offer you one piece of advice; Learn To Play.

Who sayd that Warriors had more condition removal than Guardian?

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Who sayd that Warriors had more condition removal than Guardian?

The OP

All of this summed up: if you can’t handle a low health pool supplemented by numerous blinds, blocks, and regenerative abilities, play something else (besides a Thief).

We were here to talk about Guardians’ health pool, right?

just get a bit more vitality stats till you’re comfortable with it.. That’s what I did on my elementalist. Didn’t need to on guardian because it is near immortal in pve 1v1’s. blind-aegis-block-dodge-blind-aegis-block-dodge and by then most of the mobs are dead because I use zerker stats and I received no damage what so ever.
You don’t need more hp you need more skills.

Streps.9784:

No idea if this has been done before but i want to see what people have to say anyway, i made a guard not that long ago love it to bits awesome class that tanks direct damage really well but i mean the hp on a normal WvW guard is pretty low and conditions when they build up just chew me right down i normally just go down to condition’s building up,
now yes i can have the condition remove traits and signet (i do use the signet) but even still fighting against necro’s or any bleed built class is crazy with such sad hp, my warrior has better hp and condition removal and damage and that just dose not seem right.

really in the end i just don’t know why a heavy armor class that’s built to support has such low hp compared to light and medium armor classes and even the only other heavy armor class.

My guardian runs between 15k and 18k health in wvwvw, and is pretty much unkillable unless you get rolled over by a zerg, and even then its takes a while to die.

Because of our healing you have to think of guardian health as a constantly refilling pool rather than one that empties.

Put it like this (numbers made up purely for example):
If I have 100,000 health but no mitigation, and I take 10,000 dmg per second I need to heal 10,000 health per second to stay alive.
But if I have 50,000 and 50% mitigation and take 10,000dmg per second I am really only taking 5,000 due to mitigation, which means I only need to heal 5,000 damage per second to stay alive.

Guardians have lots of self healing, and so increasing toughness and having low health is not such a liability. Of course you’ll have to find the balance of health, mitigation and healing that works for you.

My guardian run with 12.8k hp and I’m pretty much unkillable. You have to block attaks and dodge btw. I run with superior rune of lyssa and my virtue of resolve cure 3 conditions. If needed you have a meditation that cure ALL conditions and turn them into boons. Don’t cry on these conditions, you can cure them easily. I also run with Bowl of lemongrass poultry soup -40% conditions duration.. Give me 2k hp and it would not be fair for other classes.

I agree to this change as long as:

Critical Damage/Boon Duration switched in trees, this means a DPS guardian must have 30 in virtues tree to get that 30% extra damage instead of in a defensive tree

Elusive Power’s damage bonus nerfed from 10% to 3%.

Altruistic Healing gets a 1 second internal cool-down.

Shelter no longer blocks attacks, instead gives 3 seconds of regeneration.

Purity now cures a condition every time you use a healing spell.

Empowering Might gets a 1 second internal cooldown.

Symbol of Protection now only gives protection for the first second, regeneration for the other seconds.

Vigorous Precision now gives 5 seconds of vigor after using a healing spell.

Writ of the Merciful has a 1 second cooldown, reduced healing by 50%

Signet of Resolve heals 25% less.

Signet of Judgement now gives toughness instead of reducing damage.

This way it will be more fair to warriors!

Lol Daecollo you want something more for just a 2 k hp ? xD For me It can be good to have a trait like a “200 More vitality” in Honor trait-line instead of “Elusive power”. In this way if you want that Hp bonus You have to spendt 25 point in Honor.

Warriors do have more health, however if you look at our trees you would realize that our discipline tree gives 0.1% burst damage per point, this is completely worthless you might as well say that we have -200\-300 in stats because of how good the traits in it are.

So you might as well knock 200 points for that.

We also have very little use for healing power in our toughness tree since we don’t really use it much.

If we use a greatsword, condition damage does almost nothing for us, for guardians however you can get burning on a proc and not just an unreliable bleed for our greatsword, if we go greatsword (25 points in precision tree.) you might as well knock out another 250 points in stat loss because condition damage simply does not benefit greatsword warriors.

This is the average greatsword warrior pve build:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcR9oMGnRmMGnRmpp9MGVs0aoV

Notice that we have 250 condition damage, 20 in brawn.

Condition damage/bleeding is about 1.6% of the greatswords total damage, we literally have no way to apply any damaging condition besides that one stack of bleed every so often just to get that 10% extra damage.

This means we are essentially losing out on stats… -450 (4500 health just from that alone!)

Guardian secondary stats are well rounded all over the place however, with 30% critical damage in your survivability tree and HP/Vitality all in the same tree, with your condition damage in your condition tree you have stats pretty much where you need them. This better stat allocation further betters your status as needing less HP.

Now I wouldn’t have this issue if we were able to choose our secondary stats, however atm that is not the case, I would “LOVE” The warrior tree to have critical damage in its toughness or power line, but I don’t think that will happen! Stick And Move is also only 3% damage at low endurance compared to your 10%… :<

As long warriors cant crit for 6k on hybrid bunker guardians, im all fine with it… I survived the most extreme GvG situations in wvw and a few months ago a warrior just came past, crit me hard and i was left flabbergasted. And he wasnt zerker as i did squad dmg on him :P

To this day i still live with this trauma

All that nonsense from Daecollo somehow makes my head hurt … but at least the stuff about our condition tree was funny.

A few months ago warriors had the omnom power. Now they do not :<

high survive ability with guardian is a joke.

i play guardian in a roaming guild we play 5vs5/x in openfield.
i’am first target the most time.
if we me meet another group their guardian will be our first target or if there are a necro the necro.

why that? because a guardian is visible the hole time.
movement he only have with the combo gs+sword+blink (if he use judg’s) and that only if there are a target to blink away with sword/judg’s.

he have block the ability shelter, renewed focus, shild of wrath = 8 sek block,
but after that time he die.

protection is no special guardian ability
aegis is not worth to talk about

a guardian is good first target and a save kill.

Jeddite.8620:

high survive ability with guardian is a joke.

i play guardian in a roaming guild we play 5vs5/x in openfield.
i’am first target the most time.
if we me meet another group their guardian will be our first target or if there are a necro the necro.

why that? because a guardian is visible the hole time.
movement he only have with the combo gs+sword+blink (if he use judg’s) and that only if there are a target to blink away with sword/judg’s.

he have block the ability shelter, renewed focus, shild of wrath = 8 sek block,
but after that time he die.

protection is no special guardian ability
aegis is not worth to talk about

a guardian is good first target and a save kill.

Idk,max damage people do to me is really low and i have a health pool between 20k and ~24k(depends weapon set) on 3.5k armor, the first thing i learn to drop was healing power, atm running only 200~400 but will start to increase if i feel necessary.

i wouldnt mind a guardian health buff XD

30/30 spec, with soldier or dolyjak rune, full pvt with saphiere juwelery, shild+trait?
that change nothing only that you kitten yourself. XD
only for zergplay is it ok,
but for zergplay is everything ok because there are a lot other people.

Vayne.8563:

Put it this way. You have the same health as an ele and a thief, and they have weaker armor. Is that fair? lol

They usually just build straight up dmg zerker to see big numbers. In my opinion, toughness needs reworked because getting hit for 9500 by an auto-attack (thief) with 1800 toughness is not balanced.The damage an ele can pump into you before you even get to them is ridiculous. It doesn’t matter if you have 17k hp or 14.3 with 1800-1900 toughness. You’re still getting sauced.

In order to close those gaps, you need to sacrifice other stats/weapons/gear/runes that are far too important.

Double post. My apologies.

What I’m saying is, you can have all the toughness and armor in the world, and the straight up DPS builds (which every one does) still melt you.

GRANTED, I can jump into a zerg and live longer than any one else on the field, but what good does that do in the end? lol

Iconik.8712:

Double post. My apologies.

What I’m saying is, you can have all the toughness and armor in the world, and the straight up DPS builds (which every one does) still melt you.

GRANTED, I can jump into a zerg and live longer than any one else on the field, but what good does that do in the end? lol

Lure the blob into you cast some CC, let your group push the zerg, heal, then join your group, at the end for how many players you tagged with your staff you wont have a badge. :X

Back to damage build after that, bags everywhere.

Yeah I try to do that as much as possible. I run around with Hammer and Altruistic Healing which makes for some fun times.

With proper gear distribution you can make up for the HP woes. I never really found much of a issue with my health at 13kish. A lot of players are just fine with it as well. But if that is too low for you. You can also easily try some sentinel gear and get hp to 14-15k

Well, about the low HP that guardians seem to have, even though Guardians are not really supposed to have the role of being a one way healing class, still got the short straw as all other healing classes in other games, which is a bit weird. But it is fair, since we already have a way to counter conditions if we trait and set up the runes right. If we were to have a gigantic HP pool then we would have been a tad overpowered.

I would also like to add that you can get your HP pool to around 21k if you trait for a bunker and ignore the healing power for the armor by going PVT, but some choose to go with high healing power and low health to have more control and more healing. I, personally, feel a bit claustrophobic when I try to ignore health and invest in healing power, so I have gone full PVT and given my weapon healing sigil stack as well as I got healing power increase in foods to get around 1k healing power. Not as much as the healing power specced Guardian, but close?

I am sitting at 21k+ HP and pretty fine with losing critical chance since I depend on my retaliation and sturdy overall damage.
It all comes to what you want to do with your guardian, really.

kitten , reading the first page of this thread made me rage way too hard >.<

I mean, srsly?
Guardians already have amazing damage mitigation, a big amount of condition remove, good heals, insakittenup support, lots of combo-skills.
And all some can think of is: “Where are my tons of HP on top of that?”

Of all professions, Guardians are definitely rather at the OP end of the spectrum and it really baffles me how some people still complain about them being too weak.
When it comes to DPS in offensive specs, well, dunno, maybe; but health? Come on, thats like the only (minor) weakness a guardian has when it comes to survivability.

Guardian with higher HP would be rediculous. We have plenty of access to cleanses through Traits and Light combo fields. If Guards had high HP, all they’d need is to grab a hammer and just auto-attack through everything.

Guards have a high effective health pool. This is a combination of total hp + expected hp gains.

Fine as is.