Guild Wars 2

haviz.1340:

Nike, what do you think of my newest build? Does it warrant creating new thread where everyone could give some feedback? I’d love to hear some positive thoughts about it, I’m pretty sure this build will be new meta based on the recent comment from Jon Peters about increasing viability of condition damage builds.

Silentstorm, keep up the good work, don’t stop what you do because of this zerker circle*****.

I was blown away by the skills page before I even got to the traits. I’m excited.

Anicetus.1253:

I’ve tried stuff as cleric 0/0/10/30/30 ele too and have fun playing it from time to time. But before the run i ask my party if they’re okay with carrying me and would never come to the idea of advertising it. Not at all and if so i’d state it as what it is: bad and wouldn’t try to tell people it’s good.

Heh, I do this with my guardian. Slap on cleric’s gear, head out with the zerg in WvW and heal my dumb face off. It’s fun. I enjoy it, because I play healers in other games. I spam blinds and burns, cure condis and grant stability — and healing isn’t bad per se so it’s not totally useless — but I wouldn’t ever take that into a dungeon or for small-group roaming in WvW.

I think that’s the thing some people are missing in this discussion. There are times when it’s fine to play totally your way, hang efficiency. And there are times when you should prioritize efficiency to be considerate to your group.

haviz.1340:

Nike, what do you think of my newest build? Does it warrant creating new thread where everyone could give some feedback? I’d love to hear some positive thoughts about it, I’m pretty sure this build will be new meta based on the recent comment from Jon Peters about increasing viability of condition damage builds.

Silentstorm, keep up the good work, don’t stop what you do because of this zerker circle*****.

I would probably rune ranger runes so you get the 5% buff from your ghost weapon pets.

strife was from DnT and his build used AH because most people thought that it was the way to go in optimised dungeon speedclears. if he continued to play GW2 he would definitely be using a DPS build because those are now widely acknowledged as the best builds to play in PVE.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I would probably rune ranger runes so you get the 5% buff from your ghost weapon pets.

But it doesn’t increase burning damage.

Rainshine.5493:

Anicetus.1253:

I’ve tried stuff as cleric 0/0/10/30/30 ele too and have fun playing it from time to time. But before the run i ask my party if they’re okay with carrying me and would never come to the idea of advertising it. Not at all and if so i’d state it as what it is: bad and wouldn’t try to tell people it’s good.

Heh, I do this with my guardian. Slap on cleric’s gear, head out with the zerg in WvW and heal my dumb face off. It’s fun. I enjoy it, because I play healers in other games. I spam blinds and burns, cure condis and grant stability — and healing isn’t bad per se so it’s not totally useless — but I wouldn’t ever take that into a dungeon or for small-group roaming in WvW.

I think that’s the thing some people are missing in this discussion. There are times when it’s fine to play totally your way, hang efficiency. And there are times when you should prioritize efficiency to be considerate to your group.

Thank you.
All we’ve been saying is that silentstorms build is not efficient.
We couldn’t care less if he uses it in solo play or in “play how you want” dungeon groups, the only thing we strictly disagree with is that he says and advertises it as good.

haviz.1340:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I would probably rune ranger runes so you get the 5% buff from your ghost weapon pets.

But it doesn’t increase burning damage.

It increases your burning damage by 5% too. That’s how the rune works. So long as a ghost weapon pet is up.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

It increases your burning damage by 5% too. That’s how the rune works. So long as a ghost weapon pet is up.

Are you sure it increases condition damage as well?

Positive. I heard about it in LA map chat.

Obtena.7952:

Sutcliffe.5491:

Why not u make some suggestions yourself to improve this guardian paladin 2.5 built based on its ‘flavor’ or the philosophy of this built?

It’s fine the way it is. Nothing has changed since the last time it was reviewed to warrant a change to it.

But there are builds that do everything better than this build. Damage, survivability, support. Why would you defend a build that is outdone in every single aspect by other builds (and I’m not necessarily talking about our pure DPS builds)?

Who am I to decide what builds someone may want to use, regardless of what I might think of them? Maybe some people should ask themselves that question.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Positive. I heard about it in LA map chat.

Then it’s settled!

Obtena.7952:

Who am I to decide what builds someone may want to use, regardless of what I might think of them? Maybe some people should ask themselves that question.

It’s funny how you dance around my question.

We’re not dictating which builds people should be using, we’re pointing out the objective flaws in the build and the danger it brings to the community, namely, presenting itself as a ‘good’ build while not being one and promoting bad play.

I’ll ask my question again though: why would one defend a build that is outdone in every single regard by other builds? Also, this isn’t subjective, it’s just that other builds are objectively better in every single way than this build, hence, this build is simply bad.

Some builds might have be inferior in some regard to another build, but superior in another one. This build is simply inferior all over the board.

Bright.9160:

We’re not dictating which builds people should be using, we’re pointing out the objective flaws in the build and the danger it brings to the community, namely, presenting itself as a ‘good’ build while not being one and promoting bad play.

I think that’s a very subjective interpretation. People can decide for themselves if this is a build they want to play or not, regardless of how you have labelled it. What you think of the build doesn’t give you free reign to flame it into oblivion. I’ve already mentioned a few of the positive aspects of this build. If you think there is a better build that does all that, feel free to make a new build thread about it.

Obtena.7952:

Bright.9160:

We’re not dictating which builds people should be using, we’re pointing out the objective flaws in the build and the danger it brings to the community, namely, presenting itself as a ‘good’ build while not being one and promoting bad play.

I think that’s a very subjective interpretation. People can decide for themselves if this is a build they want to play or not, regardless of how you have labelled it. What you think of the build doesn’t give you free reign to flame it into oblivion. I’ve already mentioned a few of the positive aspects of this build. If you think there is a better build that does all that, feel free to make a new build thread about it.

It’s not subjective, bad is bad. You have had more than a good enough explanation already as to why that is.

It doesn’t matter how you have labelled it. People can decide for themselves if they find value in a build and use it. If you have a better build, feel free to educate the community and make a build thread for it.

Obtena.7952:

You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter. People can decide for themselves if they find value in a build and use it.

But they would find more value in better builds that’s the entire point. Promoting something sub optimal is just wrong.

Adam.4103:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter. People can decide for themselves if they find value in a build and use it.

But they would find more value in better builds that’s the entire point. Promoting something sub optimal is just wrong.

Maybe. That’s for them to decide for themselves. If you have a better build, make a thread about it.

I missed the post where you said this build is good at a few things. Care to repeat them Obtena?

Obtena.7952:

Adam.4103:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter. People can decide for themselves if they find value in a build and use it.

But they would find more value in better builds that’s the entire point. Promoting something sub optimal is just wrong.

Maybe. That’s for them to decide for themselves. I

We are helping people make informed decisions.

Obtena.7952:

Adam.4103:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter. People can decide for themselves if they find value in a build and use it.

But they would find more value in better builds that’s the entire point. Promoting something sub optimal is just wrong.

Maybe. That’s for them to decide for themselves. If you have a better build, make a thread about it.

I get that there’s an excellent chance you’re doing the passive aggressive thing just to get a rise out of people, but on the slim chance you’re not:

New players look to guides for find optimal builds, because they lack the experience and knowledge to know if something is efficient or not. A lot of things I thought were working fine when I started make me facepalm over those decisions now.

Promoting sub-optimal builds as anything but “for fun” does not help new players, who don’t have enough information to know any better. I used to pooh-pooh the full zerker groups too until I watched some videos and actually joined one.

Let me get this clear. People should try my newest build 2.0 (thanks Nike for the feedback!) before they can evaluate it and say it’s really good and stays ahead of the curve. And to do this, you need to spend your money on the new shiny equipment, preferably ascended one.

haviz.1340:

Let me get this clear. People should try my newest build 2.0 (thanks Nike for the feedback!) before they can evaluate it and say it’s really good and stays ahead of the curve. And to do this, you need to spend your money on the new shiny equipment, preferably ascended one.

It’s quite close to Obtena’s so it must be good!

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Obtena.7952:

Adam.4103:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t get it. It doesn’t matter. People can decide for themselves if they find value in a build and use it.

But they would find more value in better builds that’s the entire point. Promoting something sub optimal is just wrong.

Maybe. That’s for them to decide for themselves. I

We are helping people make informed decisions.

Exactly my thought.

Alot of people come to the forum seeking for advice, they are looking for something better because their “play how you want” doesn’t cut it anymore. I for myself, have been induced in error many time from guides on this forum and wasted ALOT of gold on exotic with useless stats. I’m glad the OP likes his build but it’s far from being the best, DnT’s are really nice to share their builds, they have helped many players and those builds arn’t spreadsheet build, they work and the damage/survability increase is easily noticeable.

Also don’t forget, the longer the fight last, easier it is to make mistakes which lead to party wipe. When a fight takes 20 seconds instead of 2 minutes, the guardian have enough aegis/reflect so that the party don’t even get hit.

Anicetus.1253:

It’s quite close to Obtena’s so it must be good!

Nono, it’s better.

Rainshine.5493:

Promoting sub-optimal builds as anything but “for fun” does not help new players, who don’t have enough information to know any better.

Agreed. I missed the part where that gives open license to flame threads though. I’m all for helping people but what I see happening in this thread isn’t the way to do it. Someone asked me for an example of toxic in the forums … this is it.

Obtena.7952:

Rainshine.5493:

Promoting sub-optimal builds as anything but “for fun” does not help new players, who don’t have enough information to know any better.

Agreed. I missed the part where that gives open license to flame threads though. I’m all for helping people but what I see happening in this thread isn’t the way to do it.

This is not flaming.This is helping people make the right choice.

Obtena.7952:

Rainshine.5493:

Promoting sub-optimal builds as anything but “for fun” does not help new players, who don’t have enough information to know any better.

Agreed. I missed the part where that gives open license to flame threads though. I’m all for helping people but what I see happening in this thread isn’t the way to do it. Someone asked me for an example of toxic in the forums … this is it.

I’m looking for the flaming and I’m not really seeing it.

People need to learn that disagreeing with something someone says is not the same as flaming the person him or herself. Very VERY few people seem to be able to separate the two.

And for the record, I think AH has its place. I just don’t think that place is really in dungeons, if we’re talking optimization. And if someone is posting a thread with a big [GUIDE] out front, optimization is what we should be talking about.

Every thread about a guide to a build is not about optimization because not every person is looking to optimize, not every person is making a guide for the purpose of optimized play. That’s just your preference, that’s ONLY what correct way play people want to see. If you don’t see the flaming in this thread, you haven’t looked very hard. If you actually read the first paragraph of first post, even the OP states outright that this isn’t about an optimized build so it shouldn’t fool anyone, even a new player. Those things are excuses so people feel justified in tearing the thread apart.

I’m not fooled and I don’t think anyone else is either.

Let me be clearer. If you’re just posting a build you enjoy, rather than an extensively tested/optimized one, you shouldn’t put “guide” out front imo.

As for the flaming, I’ll just reiterate the bit about separating criticism of an idea vs. criticism of a person.

I dont think you really know what flaming means.

Rainshine.5493:

Let me be clearer. If you’re just posting a build you enjoy, rather than an extensively tested/optimized one, you shouldn’t put “guide” out front imo.

And that’s your personal preference, but doesn’t excuse anyone from making inappropriate posts. As a guide, it’s more than appropriate because it explains the aspects of the build. Are you suggesting that a 0/15/30/20/5 build isn’t tested and optimized? If that’s the case, you don’t have much history here. That was a very popular build being pushed near the beginning of the game. It still has a purpose, even if it doesn’t appeal to the ‘correct way’ to play the game.

Rainshine.5493:

As for the flaming, I’ll just reiterate the bit about separating criticism of an idea vs. criticism of a person.

I will simply leave it to Anet to decide what posts are flaming here or not. There is enough experience to tell me that I’m confident more than a handful of posts won’t be here tomorrow.

Obtena.7952:

Rainshine.5493:

Let me be clearer. If you’re just posting a build you enjoy, rather than an extensively tested/optimized one, you shouldn’t put “guide” out front imo.

And that’s your personal preference, but doesn’t excuse anyone from making inappropriate posts. As a guide, it’s more than appropriate because it explains the aspects of the build. Are you suggesting that a 0/15/30/20/5 build isn’t tested and optimized? If that’s the case, you don’t have much history here. That was a very popular build being pushed near the beginning of the game.

Most of the posts are constructive and informative. You’re just derailing the topic with your nonsensical rants about how you think everything and anything should be used, and that there is no such thing as mathematical truths. Please stop trying to sabotage the OP’s thread, Obtena.

That’s fine if you want to critique the guide. As for the build, at this point, everyone should be offended for the OP … there isn’t any reason for people to come into a thread where someone presents a build (one that’s well established at that, the OP doesn’t actually say anything I haven’t seen many times already) and say it’s garbage because it’s offends their sensibilities on the ‘correct’ manner to play the game.

The funny part … if the whole strategy is to ‘convert’ people to playing the ‘correct’ way, it’s not a very endearing method to do so.

There is nothing offensive about criticism of a build. Criticism is what makes a build. It’s what improves it. How do you think builds are optimized? Through constant criticism and changes. If OP and yourself, do not want to accept these things, then the build will remain subpar and not something that should be recommended to the community.

There is a way to critique a build without the negative impact to the thread that I’m seeing here. For a bunch of people that think everyone should play the correct way, it’s pretty ironic that the positive critique being provided is suggesting to use spirit weapon and burning builds. Come off it already. The intent is clear.

Obtena.7952:

There is a way to critique a build without the negative impact to the thread that I’m seeing here. For a bunch of people that think everyone should play the correct way, it’s pretty ironic that the positive critique being provided is suggesting to use spirit weapon and burning builds. Come off it already. The intent is clear.

The only negative impact to this thread are the reactions to the criticisms. People are taking it personally and getting offended when there is no reason to do so.

Obtena.7952:

There is a way to critique a build without the negative impact to the thread that I’m seeing here. For a bunch of people that think everyone should play the correct way, it’s pretty ironic that the positive critique being provided is suggesting to use spirit weapon and burning builds. Come off it already. The intent is clear.

So now you’re being offensive and biased against me? How ironic.

haviz.1340:

Obtena.7952:

There is a way to critique a build without the negative impact to the thread that I’m seeing here. For a bunch of people that think everyone should play the correct way, it’s pretty ironic that the positive critique being provided is suggesting to use spirit weapon and burning builds. Come off it already. The intent is clear.

So now you’re being offensive and biased against me? How ironic.

Just read it. Gold.

This build is complete trash, you bring almost nothing to the party aside from 150 toughness and some blinds/vuln (every decent guard build has 15 in radiance anyways)

You don’t need 30 in honor since AH is pretty bad unless you don’t know how to dodge/use aegis, can’t even see why you went into honor at all, you have no toughness but took a % modifier based on it. Also you have no % damage bonuses in this build and nothing in your traits that lends to party support. Even though it’s entirely inefficient at least it’s not a clerics/knights build so props for that.

Given all the arguing, here is a dps test of the meta build vs the paladin 2.5 build. The bottom line is that paladins don’t hit like a truck and don’t have the proper support for pve.

http://youtu.be/dn1lgmlVP88

(If not available then no sound version http://youtu.be/OohPl30jtOM)

obal.3218:

don’t have the proper support for pve.

The funny part with this statement is that it was used by a lot of pve dudes just a month back, justifying 30 points in honor, which i said was just an excuse for having a 3k hp cushion. Im glad that people finally seem to agree and have swapped to virtues as the new pink.

Seriously, 30 points in honor or virtues isnt that much of an improvement to support in pve. What matters is what weapon you use and what utilities you bring.

Having 2 more sec on WoR or reduced cool down is just quality of life in pve and ofc makes it easier for non skilled people. Personally i prefer max dps AND support.

With that said, stop bashing on OP, people are enjoying the build and the guide serves a purpose, its a widely used setup which has its merits.

Personally i dont like it at all and think its junk, but thats an opinion since quality is in the eye of the beholder and even though people in here try to state that its an objective observation that its junk, its highly subjective.

Keep it up OP, if you like it and other also do i think any kind of serious write up brings value to the community. But thats also subjective.

PS I said if before and i say it again, we need a dps guide in these forums, maybe we should put some joint effort in that instead of flaming and naming.

Brutaly.6257:

PS I said if before and i say it again, we need a dps guide in these forums

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds/first

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83701-the-perfect-dps-guardian-build/

Brutaly.6257:

obal.3218:

don’t have the proper support for pve.

The funny part with this statement is that it was used by a lot of pve dudes just a month back, justifying 30 points in honor, which i said was just an excuse for having a 3k hp cushion. Im glad that people finally seem to agree and have swapped to virtues as the new pink.

Seriously, 30 points in honor or virtues isnt that much of an improvement to support in pve. What matters is what weapon you use and what utilities you bring.

Having 2 more sec on WoR or reduced cool down is just quality of life in pve and ofc makes it easier for non skilled people. Personally i prefer max dps AND support.

With that said, stop bashing on OP, people are enjoying the build and the guide serves a purpose, its a widely used setup which has its merits.

Personally i dont like it at all and think its junk, but thats an opinion since quality is in the eye of the beholder and even though people in here try to state that its an objective observation that its junk, its highly subjective.

Keep it up OP, if you like it and other also do i think any kind of serious write up brings value to the community. But thats also subjective.

PS I said if before and i say it again, we need a dps guide in these forums, maybe we should put some joint effort in that instead of flaming and naming.

The max dps for a guardian would be 10/25/0/0/25 with 10 points up to you since it hits all the general damage modifiers (around 24% dps) and the OP build has none. The paladin 2.5 build has 4288 effective power vs 10/30/0/5/25 zerk with 8258 while using sword and 7077 while using greatsword for bursting considering no sigils and the same food. They aren’t even close in damage.

The best trait for pve is master of consecrations since WoR is the strongest skill for pve. Purging flames and hallowed ground are great as well. You also have the traited resolve that removes 3 condtions. You have blind exposure and renewed justice as well which the OP build does right. I agree honor is a waste unless your running a hammer which the OP is not. The last 10 points can go to shout cd which is a good trait as well, 10 in valor for strength in numbers which is the only worthwhile trait in the line, or whatever else you want. If you play in groups or run with zergs then AH is 30 points that could have been spent to better support everyone or do more dps.

You say you perfer max dps and support, well 10/25/0/0/25 has all of that. If you want absolute max support and small loss in dps then hammer 15/15/0/20/10 has all that plus perma prot. The OP has given many derogatory responses elsewhere and wanted proof of succeeding in pve using dps oriented builds and said his build hits like a truck. Providing numbers and practicality isn’t bashing on the OP or expressing opinion.

Brazils guide on guru has two flaws
1. Its on guru, its not in these forums
2. Its a guide to one build, not how to build for dps.

The first link has two flaws:
1. its not in this forum, its in a specific part of the forums which isnt the first place a new guardian goes to check for profession specific information. And tbh if your not into dungeons as a min interest you would probably never go there.
2. Its for pve and its not a guide to dps.

What we need (which would reduce naming and flaming and also reduce misunderstandings and help new players) imo is a guide to how to build for dps.

Basically what traits do we have, how can they be combined and how to max dps with different weaponsets and what conditions have to met in order to max dps with a specific trait.

Posting threads with hyped builds, which than get scrapped, is a never ending story. Just look at this thread as a good example. A guide regarding what options a player has is way better than a specific build

The max dps for a guardian would be 10/25/0/0/25 with 10 points up to you since it hits all the general damage modifiers (around 24% dps) and the OP build has none.

This proves my point. This is only true if a number of conditions are met, which isnt the case in many scenarios.

I can actually put together a build with more dps than the one you posted, its not a top dps build in all scenarios and with all weapons. Frankly i cant see a single weapon setup where this in fact is the top dps build.

The OP has given many derogatory responses elsewhere and wanted proof of succeeding in pve using dps oriented builds and said his build hits like a truck. Providing numbers and practicality isn’t bashing on the OP or expressing opinion.

I agree totally with this, but he never claimed it to be a top dps build, its a build designed to get a specific feel, not performance.

And yes he might be over the top in some conversation but frankly it takes two to tango.

Dis thread.

Just….Golden.

Guardian subforum always delivers.

Brutaly.6257:

My point was that what we need is a general guide to dps specifically in the guardian forum. Not a specific guide to dps in pve.

Im getting extremely bored with all these pointless discussions regarding dps and it would just be great to have a guide “to dps”, that the experts on dps can support.

Done

Done

Brutaly.6257:

Im getting extremely bored with all these pointless discussions regarding dps and it would just be great to have a guide “to dps”, that the experts on dps can support.

The experts have pretty much weighed in. Not sure who else you’re looking to hear from.

We arent dedicated pvpers or wvwers so were not experts though!