I really don’t have a problem at all doing frac 50s and pretty much everything else PvE related with 11k health.
Its just not as bad as you may think. Most of your survivability will come from dodges/blocks/reflects/blind <- Blind is key here in PvE, spam that justice yo~, so once you can play a guardian well, you wont even notice having a lower health pool. (Especially since everything in fractals 50 that matters will 1 shot you regardless, (Well, if you have protection up, you may survive) having more health would just end up being pointless)
In WvW zerging/roaming, you will want some more health for sure, as 11k health in WvW is pretty much a death sentence, as there will always be that one glass thief 1-shot backstabbing you :’(
Sorry, talking from a sPvP standpoint. It seems that going full berserker and traiting to do some ACTUAL damage is nothing more than a death sentence. Just to be able to survive at all you have to dump all your traits into meditation abilities, but then damage is mediocre.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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Yeah, I have been using 10/5/30/5/20 for a while now in spvp with meds/gs-sf/berserkers jewel, whilst I do alrighty-ish damage the survivability is pretty shoddy, especially when compared to warriors, who have almost twice our base health and better survivability, more often then not, more damage, more control, I also hate when they use all stances at once for like 8 seconds of godmode :’(
Exactly. I really wanted to get into guardian cause the style felt kind of neat, but wow the damage just isn’t there unless you want to drop the second someone blinks at you. Same reason I can’t play Ranger. On my necro, I do amazing damage. The trade-off is it takes skill to keep me alive, instead of minons and bunker stats.
Point is, on my Necro there exists a fair trade-off between damage and survivability. This trade-off system is completely one-sided for Guardians and Necros, giving up survival but not getting the damage.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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Learn game mechanics and it will be fine. In pve it just depends on your playing ability
There is always that one guy that makes a comment but has no idea what is going on. But of course, I shall masterfully learn how to bang face on keyboard so that guardian attacks magically do more damage without the consent of Anet.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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The point being made here is that guardians have to make thereselves extremely glassy just to do decent direct damage. This is where meditation guardians come in at, but in my opinion they have to sacrifice too much damage for what survival they get. On my necro, I fear no guardian for this very reason. The guardian is either a bunker and cant hurt me or he is a glass cannon that still can’t hurt me and will just die faster.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds
Learn game mechanics and it will be fine. In pve it just depends on your playing ability
There is always that one guy that makes a comment but has no idea what is going on. But of course, I shall masterfully learn how to bang face on keyboard so that guardian attacks magically do more damage without the consent of Anet.
He’s right, however he really didn’t explain why. Guard are naturally defensive, they have more blinds, blocks, and ways to mitigate damage then any other class. This is why they have such a low hp pool. DPS guard has one of the highest sustain rates compared to other glass builds for other professions.
If you’re not comfortable running full zerker yet, I recommend something like this:
It has nothing to do with being comfortable with running full zerker, it’s mostly that I’m spoiled with full zerker on my necro and used to hitting 3-4k per hit with 100% crit chance all while generating Life Force extremely fast and using Death Shroud to supplement my already massive hp. It’s not easy, but shroud dancing properly allows me to decimate opponents with heavy attacks while surviving.
On a guardian though, even full zerk the damage isn’t that high, and comes at an even greater risk than playing my necro. All I’m trying to point out is that the risk to reward ratio isn’t as balanced as it is on other classes.
Not asking for help.
Do not need builds.
Don’t intend to play guardian, it was just for fun.
Was just making an observation.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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It has nothing to do with being comfortable with running full zerker, it’s mostly that I’m spoiled with full zerker on my necro and used to hitting 3-4k per hit with 100% crit chance all while generating Life Force extremely fast and using Death Shroud to supplement my already massive hp. It’s not easy, but shroud dancing properly allows me to decimate opponents with heavy attacks while surviving.
On a guardian though, even full zerk the damage isn’t that high, and comes at an even greater risk than playing my necro. All I’m trying to point out is that the risk to reward ratio isn’t as balanced as it is on other classes.
Not asking for help.
Do not need builds.
Don’t intend to play guardian, it was just for fun.
Was just making an observation.
You could have been more specific which game mode. Guards deal more damage have more sustain and more support than necros in pve. Yes on necro you can soak up damage to some extent but on guardian you can avoid it completely
It has nothing to do with being comfortable with running full zerker, it’s mostly that I’m spoiled with full zerker on my necro and used to hitting 3-4k per hit with 100% crit chance all while generating Life Force extremely fast and using Death Shroud to supplement my already massive hp. It’s not easy, but shroud dancing properly allows me to decimate opponents with heavy attacks while surviving.
On a guardian though, even full zerk the damage isn’t that high, and comes at an even greater risk than playing my necro. All I’m trying to point out is that the risk to reward ratio isn’t as balanced as it is on other classes.
Not asking for help.
Do not need builds.
Don’t intend to play guardian, it was just for fun.
Was just making an observation.
You could have been more specific which game mode. Guards deal more damage have more sustain and more support than necros in pve. Yes on necro you can soak up damage to some extent but on guardian you can avoid it completely
He did specify after the OP, before you posted, see:
Sorry, talking from a sPvP standpoint. It seems that going full berserker and traiting to do some ACTUAL damage is nothing more than a death sentence. Just to be able to survive at all you have to dump all your traits into meditation abilities, but then damage is mediocre.
@Shaogin, I can see where you going with this, and yes a lot of DPS’ers more or less agree with you on this. We don’t get the same as other classes because of our active mitigations, but currently, that’s not enough to keep our healh the lowest anymore.
we started as a tanky class and had the same HP as warrior but they nerfed us to the point that we are an enchanter class except if you go full bunker
Unless I’m mistaken, we were never in the same HP category as the warrior. If we were, it was at best only a few months at release or it’s because warriors got a buff to HP. That’s not really relevant anyways because anyone that identifies HP as a problem for Guardians in the game doesn’t understand the class in the first place.
HP is not a problem in SPvP but that being said, Guardian isn’t exactly a faceroll class either.
risk vs reward is very balanced in guardian.. I feel like that build you were running is extremely tanky but not really enough damage to make it effective imo.. I don’t know what problem you’re having, that’s one of the tankiest dps builds for guardian you can run.
we started as a tanky class and had the same HP as warrior but they nerfed us to the point that we are an enchanter class except if you go full bunker
Unless I’m mistaken, we were never in the same HP category as the warrior. If we were, it was at best only a few months at release or it’s because warriors got a buff to HP. That’s not really relevant anyways because anyone that identifies HP as a problem for Guardians in the game doesn’t understand the class in the first place.
HP is not a problem in SPvP but that being said, Guardian isn’t exactly a faceroll class either.
Beta is a testing phase … obviously you haven’t learned that the fact they changed it to lower HP after testing means that Guardians with high HP had an unintended impact to the game.
Regardless, more HP isn’t the answer to the problems Guardians have in sPvP so waving some archaic facts around is moot anyways.
Beta is a testing phase … obviously you haven’t learned that the fact they changed it to lower HP after testing means it had an unintended impact to the game.
im not sayin its an issue its just that class took a different path we are mostly an enchanter class than anything else
Enchanter class or not, HP doesn’t address the issues we have in sPvP. For me, this is one class where you have to work with others and offer more tempting targets for the enemy. It doesn’t lend itself well to Rambo-ing around the countryside. People that don’t do that either have to bunker down or die.
Remember that med guardians have good blocks and perma vigor, though.
If you go from a necro to guardian, you are gonna need time to get the right feeling out of it. I had the same issue going from warrior (too boring now) to med guard (which is pretty BRÜTAL).
But once you get the hang of it, you can do some serious damage while having fun.
For example, I lowe to chain Binding Blade and Judgement intervention, followed up by whirling wrath, to pull people and then AoE the living crap outta them.XD
When I’m done, I slice them up with my sword.
Thanks to blinds and blocks, a med guard can defeat a warrior most of the time.
You will never be able to know what an engineer is going to do next…
Beta is a testing phase … obviously you haven’t learned that the fact they changed it to lower HP after testing means that Guardians with high HP had an unintended impact to the game.
Rather, lowering the HP after testing has had an unintended impact to the game as progression has allowed for most every most other Zerker class to, in fact, put a guardian down within 2 hits.
Get your sensationalism BS out of here.
HP is a problem for Zerker guardians in anything other than 3v3’s. Anyone who says otherwise really doesn’t understand WvW mechanics.
Beta is a testing phase … obviously you haven’t learned that the fact they changed it to lower HP after testing means that Guardians with high HP had an unintended impact to the game.
Theres a ton of problems with the Guardian, one of the lynch pin problems is the HP. In fact its that beta testing that you mention that crippled the Guardian along with stealth nerfs to our class (retal nerf, future vigor nerf).
I don’t consider beta testing phase and changes from them nerfs because beta testing is just that … testing. It’s not the final product released to the public. I guess it’s semantics to you guys because you want Guardians to play like Warriors. That’s OK but it’s clear that Anet isn’t going to let that happen.
You can say HP is a lynch pin problem but it would be useful to say why. I claim it’s not because there are other approaches to deal with what is wrong that are actually inline with the Guardian profession and maintain the challenge of playing the class; more HP isn’t one of them.
I agree that the HP is not the problem with guardian. When going with the Meditation build I still was able to survive due to the crazy amount of healing I had in addition to blocks, blinds, and what not.
Going full zerk is where I had my issues. HP is pathetic but that is not the problem. As full zerker I expect to have to use the mechanics the class offers for survival, such as using protection/blinds/weakness/cripple/chill/death shroud on my necro and protection/blind/block/heals on a guardian. But what I did not appreciate was that in return for me dropping my defensive stats I was not provided the damage capablities necessary to sufficiently kill an oponent in a glass cannon build. Again, possible that my Necro has spoiled me, but that is what makes me feel the trade-off for a guardian is unbalanced.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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HP is a problem when conditions start flying around and our heavy armor doesn’t mitigate it at all. Same has toughness.
Maybe we are in a right place for fighting an ambient creature or one person. But if the bunny brings a friend forget it. Game has evolved but the Guardian has not. Therein lies the fundamental problem.
Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
Perhaps in WvW that’s true but in the 4th post, the OP indicates the scope of the discussion is about sPvP. I would think the biggest problem with balancing the Guardian is that each of the game elements have different issues. How does one go about fixing one without affecting the others? It’s a fool’s errand and I think the devs know it.
“How does one go about fixing one without affecting the others? It’s a fool’s errand and I think the devs know it.”
I agree 100%. And this is why every game to date that has utterly failed in the end. It is very “costly” to try and balance PvE and PvP. Even the mighty Mythic who’s game was designed from the ground up to be PvP failed once they introduced a PvE expansion to bring in the raiding boys and girls.
Just my opinion mind you.
Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
This is what I don’t get … gear (at least in Spvp) is different from PVE. Yet, we have the same skills, weapons and traits … WHY? Other than the time it would take, what is the barrier to separating ALL the elements between sPVP and PVE? I can’t think of any.
I digress a bit but if my crystal ball is working, I don’t think Anet is going to ‘unbalance’ PVE to get a good working balance for PVP or even WvW. The main story of the game is PVE. I believe that PVE balance is CRIPPLED because of PVP, not the other way around. This is unfortunate.
dont roll guardian unless you want to do team pvp with friends that know what they do or be a part of a zerk.
only reason i didnt roll a warrior yet is because i did not figure out what race and name i will be.
personally guardian is not the class that i imagined them to be
when i saw warriors base health my jaw dropped to the floor and realized how much time i have wasted on this crippled class.
and i wont roll a warrior for its power but because i like mele combat.
and to people that say that HP doesnt matter it will always matter on classes that lack mobilty and have almost no cc like guardian
dont roll guardian unless you want to do team pvp with friends that know what they do or be a part of a zerk.
only reason i didnt roll a warrior yet is because i did not figure out what race and name i will be.
personally guardian is not the class that i imagined them to be
when i saw warriors base health my jaw dropped to the floor and realized how much time i have wasted on this crippled class.
and i wont roll a warrior for its power but because i like mele combat.
and to people that say that HP doesnt matter it will always matter on classes that lack mobilty and have almost no cc like guardian
I felt the same as you, until I remembered which was the class that I liked the most in Dragon Age: arcane warrior.
Then i remembered how I loved tough characters with low health.
You will never be able to know what an engineer is going to do next…
dont roll guardian unless you want to do team pvp with friends that know what they do or be a part of a zerk.
only reason i didnt roll a warrior yet is because i did not figure out what race and name i will be.
personally guardian is not the class that i imagined them to be
when i saw warriors base health my jaw dropped to the floor and realized how much time i have wasted on this crippled class.
and i wont roll a warrior for its power but because i like mele combat.
and to people that say that HP doesnt matter it will always matter on classes that lack mobilty and have almost no cc like guardian
I felt the same as you, until I remembered which was the class that I liked the most in Dragon Age: arcane warrior.
Then i remembered how I loved tough characters with low health.
i have played lineage 2 and there was no heavy class that had the health of a robe class
anyway i made the wrong choice, you live you learn .
dont roll guardian unless you want to do team pvp with friends that know what they do or be a part of a zerk.
only reason i didnt roll a warrior yet is because i did not figure out what race and name i will be.
personally guardian is not the class that i imagined them to be
when i saw warriors base health my jaw dropped to the floor and realized how much time i have wasted on this crippled class.
and i wont roll a warrior for its power but because i like mele combat.
and to people that say that HP doesnt matter it will always matter on classes that lack mobilty and have almost no cc like guardian
I felt the same as you, until I remembered which was the class that I liked the most in Dragon Age: arcane warrior.
Then i remembered how I loved tough characters with low health.
i have played lineage 2 and there was no heavy class that had the health of a robe class
anyway i made the wrong choice, you live you learn .
Well, the arcane warrior was a mage that specialized into fighting with a melee weapon and using magic to augment his prowess and resistance. He was able to dodge blows like a rogue while having the armor of a warrior.
Guardian has high vigor uptime and self-heals, IMHO is fun to play with him, always on the edge.
You will never be able to know what an engineer is going to do next…
dont roll guardian unless you want to do team pvp with friends that know what they do or be a part of a zerk.
only reason i didnt roll a warrior yet is because i did not figure out what race and name i will be.
personally guardian is not the class that i imagined them to be
when i saw warriors base health my jaw dropped to the floor and realized how much time i have wasted on this crippled class.
and i wont roll a warrior for its power but because i like mele combat.
and to people that say that HP doesnt matter it will always matter on classes that lack mobilty and have almost no cc like guardian
I felt the same as you, until I remembered which was the class that I liked the most in Dragon Age: arcane warrior.
Then i remembered how I loved tough characters with low health.
i have played lineage 2 and there was no heavy class that had the health of a robe class
anyway i made the wrong choice, you live you learn .
There is a reason that guards have such low HP… it’s called “active defense.” I love it when “healing sig OP roflcopter im gunna win #hamBowner” warriors duel my meditation guardian and then complain that guardians have too much healing/damage/whatever. If you play gs s/f you have a billion blinds/blocks/etc. to just completely avoid damage. If you want to play a braindead class like a warrior, go for it. I never, ever play my warrior anymore because it is the most ridiculously boring, passive class I have ever played and I can’t stand it. Guardians are extremely active in terms of mitigating damage.
Guardian’s low health pool is countered by high levels of damage mitigation. That is why I believe that Guardian’s are far more viable at surviving high end encounters than Warriors.
Guardian’s low health pool is countered by high levels of damage mitigation. That is why I believe that Guardian’s are far more viable at surviving high end encounters than Warriors.
That is what the development team leads you to believe. However, reality is another story.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m the first to say that skill can overcome a lot of the Guardian faults. I say it a lot and believe every word of it. If you do prefer PvP over PvE then the health pool is a problem. More so in WvW than the confined maps/team play.
Maybe we disagree but it is just my opinion having actively played full zerker, condition, heal/support, and toughness/AH safety net builds. I do see others though with a higher skill level doing much better…
Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
I didn’t really think that guardians had much problems with conditions. There seems to be plenty of condition removal skills for the guardian.
With our 30 point talent ‘nerf’ or ‘fix’ as they like to call it we have plenty of problems with condis. The problem is that there isn’t any condi clear on weapons except for a few classes and since its all built into utility spam to clear the condis we’re forced into specific roles, which brings us full circle back to a small health pool doesn’t help.
Guardian’s low health pool is countered by high levels of damage mitigation. That is why I believe that Guardian’s are far more viable at surviving high end encounters than Warriors.
Hahahahahahahaha…hahahahahahaha… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ohh man thats some funny kitten right there…Can’t tell if you’re trolling or serious.
So if you are trolling refer to my first laughing, if you are serious refer to healing signet/adrenal heal/invuln spam/mobility.
Guardian’s low health pool is countered by high levels of damage mitigation. That is why I believe that Guardian’s are far more viable at surviving high end encounters than Warriors.
Hahahahahahahaha…hahahahahahaha… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ohh man thats some funny kitten right there…Can’t tell if you’re trolling or serious.
So if you are trolling refer to my first laughing, if you are serious refer to healing signet/adrenal heal/invuln spam/mobility.
But you can still retain your brain while playing. That’s a big plus.
You will never be able to know what an engineer is going to do next…
