Guild Wars 2

anyone have any footage? those things were dope lol. especially the damage one. why? cuz. that’s why.

You’re not the only one.

+1

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

well i knew how to use them on WvW…. and people usually thanked me back.
still they were very situational elites, but these one actually … are useless to me.
So guardian atm only has 1 elite skill…

1 elite to refresh virtues every 90sec….. that is the only elite skill Guadian/DH has.

Aeolus.3615:

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

well i knew how to use them on WvW…. and people usually thanked me back.
still they were very situational elites, but these one actually … are useless to me.
So guardian atm only has 1 elite skill…

1 elite to refresh virtues every 90sec….. that is the only elite skill Guadian/DH has.

Well yeah, no guardian should be using anything but Renewed Focus in WvW. That goes without say. But outside wvw (and pvp I guess), “Feel my wrath” is king.

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

tfw people willingly discarding something fun for something overpowered is a common view.

I dont miss it, RF is too good.

Lahmia.2193:

Aeolus.3615:

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

well i knew how to use them on WvW…. and people usually thanked me back.
still they were very situational elites, but these one actually … are useless to me.
So guardian atm only has 1 elite skill…

1 elite to refresh virtues every 90sec….. that is the only elite skill Guadian/DH has.

Well yeah, no guardian should be using anything but Renewed Focus in WvW. That goes without say. But outside wvw (and pvp I guess), “Feel my wrath” is king.

Yeah, Quickness isn’t all that useful for pvp. Downcleave is pretty much the only application where it’s useful but the other elites just do so much more.

I don’t have all that many memories of tomes but they were fun and flavorful.

Yannir.4132:

Lahmia.2193:

Aeolus.3615:

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

well i knew how to use them on WvW…. and people usually thanked me back.
still they were very situational elites, but these one actually … are useless to me.
So guardian atm only has 1 elite skill…

1 elite to refresh virtues every 90sec….. that is the only elite skill Guadian/DH has.

Well yeah, no guardian should be using anything but Renewed Focus in WvW. That goes without say. But outside wvw (and pvp I guess), “Feel my wrath” is king.

Yeah, Quickness isn’t all that useful for pvp. Downcleave is pretty much the only application where it’s useful but the other elites just do so much more.

I don’t have all that many memories of tomes but they were fun and flavorful.

well thats the problem when balance and class design is ment to work arround pve keyboard smashing.

:(

If forms had been designed more akin to say kits or something like death shroud, I would have enjoyed them far more (perma ursan form?! yes please). Alas this did not come to pass, so I’d rather something far more easier to balance and simple in design, for Anet’s sake.

Aeolus.3615:

Yannir.4132:

Lahmia.2193:

Aeolus.3615:

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

well i knew how to use them on WvW…. and people usually thanked me back.
still they were very situational elites, but these one actually … are useless to me.
So guardian atm only has 1 elite skill…

1 elite to refresh virtues every 90sec….. that is the only elite skill Guadian/DH has.

Well yeah, no guardian should be using anything but Renewed Focus in WvW. That goes without say. But outside wvw (and pvp I guess), “Feel my wrath” is king.

Yeah, Quickness isn’t all that useful for pvp. Downcleave is pretty much the only application where it’s useful but the other elites just do so much more.

I don’t have all that many memories of tomes but they were fun and flavorful.

well thats the problem when balance and class design is ment to work arround pve keyboard smashing.

:(

As opposed to auto attacking?

I miss tomes too. When used right they would make or break your group in any game mode (PvP/WvW/PvE/Dungeons). It was fun and visually stimulating.

I really want Lorekeeper elite spec that uses Tomes in place of Virtues like a mix of attunements and kits. I described it in detail in this thread

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Lorekeeper-tome-spec/first#post5120230

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

I miss tomes too. When used right they would make or break your group in any game mode (PvP/WvW/PvE/Dungeons). It was fun and visually stimulating.

They were actually really good when used properly, but pressing more than one button (Renewed Focus) is apparently too “clunky” for some people. XD

Fashion Mage.3712:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

I miss tomes too. When used right they would make or break your group in any game mode (PvP/WvW/PvE/Dungeons). It was fun and visually stimulating.

They were actually really good when used properly, but pressing more than one button (Renewed Focus) is apparently too “clunky” for some people. XD

I know right? Anyone that doesn’t play condi engi is a noob. They’re just too dumb to play something with more than one button XD

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

Yes, I hope they remove Celestial Avatar, that thing sucks. I mean, it’s a transform and we all know that transform skills are impossible to make good.

RabbitUp.8294:

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

Yes, I hope they remove Celestial Avatar, that thing sucks. I mean, it’s a transform and we all know that transform skills are impossible to make good.

If you bothered to read wiki, you’d realise it doesn’t count as a transform. Nice try though.

Lahmia.2193:

RabbitUp.8294:

Lahmia.2193:

10/10 looks.
0/10 practicality.
Glad they removed. I hope Anet “tomes” all transform skills.

Yes, I hope they remove Celestial Avatar, that thing sucks. I mean, it’s a transform and we all know that transform skills are impossible to make good.

If you bothered to read wiki, you’d realise it doesn’t count as a transform. Nice try though.

That’s your argument? That it doesn’t have the transform skill tag?

It’s a profession mechanic, of course it has no other tags, that’s how the game works. But it’s differctly comparable. Heck, Necro shroud work the same as the other transforms, disabling all your other skills, and it still doesn’t have the Transform tag.

And they are proof that they can make a transform good. Celestial Avatar could be a utility or elite skill with similar cooldown, and it would still be excellent and used by all healer druids.

But when you take Tomes and slap a 180sec cooldown on them, of course they suck.

RabbitUp.8294:

snip

Ok to clarify. They should “tome” all the elite forms.
As for Cele form, it allows you to use your utilities. And was created within the past 2 years rather than at the start of the game. Anet obviously learnt from the disaster that was the original forms.
As for Shroud, well that’s a hotly debated topic though it is unique in that it grants you an extra life bar of sorts.
You can’t deny forms need a lot of work. My suggestion is just the easier route for Anet,
if they decide to do something about forms (they don’t have infinite resources).

RabbitUp.8294:

But when you take Tomes and slap a 180sec cooldown on them, of course they suck.

Lahmia.2193:

Ok to clarify. They should “tome” all the elite forms.

Or they could actually balance all forms properly by giving them appropriate cooldowns. So something like going into the coding and changing “180” to like “120” or something, instead of pressing delete on them.

Fashion Mage.3712:

RabbitUp.8294:

But when you take Tomes and slap a 180sec cooldown on them, of course they suck.

Lahmia.2193:

Ok to clarify. They should “tome” all the elite forms.

Or they could actually balance all forms properly by giving them appropriate cooldowns. So something like going into the coding and changing “180” to like “120” or something, instead of pressing delete on them.

Except all forms have always had the same problems, no matter the cooldown they will either me OP or UP since you only pay the opportunity cost at the end. The reason people use any form currently is for 1-2 skills and that is it. For lich form it was the jaggies, for shroud it is the 5 → 4 wombo combo, for CA you still have all your utilities as well as being probably the only form that is not pure trash beyond 1 skill. Forms need a lot of work.

If the rumors of tomes coming back is true, I really do hope they don’t replace the utility skills and function way closer to kits than anything (kits are “forms” but since they don’t replace utilities I don’t count them as forms).

How can you expect me to take you seriously when you think DS is only used for 4 and 5.

Almost every single skill on tomes were used, so that’s not really helping your comparison with them to other forms. Not that I agree that other forms are/were only used for one skill either. For one thing, nobody who actually knew how to use Tome of Courage used it for the full heal, but that’s what most people think for some reason.

Fashion Mage.3712:

How can you expect me to take you seriously when you think DS is only used for 4 and 5.

Almost every single skill on tomes were used, so that’s not really helping your comparison with them to other forms. Not that I agree that other forms are/were only used for one skill either. For one thing, nobody who actually knew how to use Tome of Courage used it for the full heal, but that’s what most people think for some reason.

Tome of Courage had niche use in WvW as a limited use healer. However most people preferred to use Renewed Focus because it was far more useful across the board.

Tome of Wrath was just plain awful. Damage was awful and the support it gave was only slightly better. I can’t see anyone defending this aside from its looks, which is no justification to keep a skill.

As for the other transforms, they’ve mostly gone the way of the dodo. I can’t remember seeing any serious use of Rampage, Elixir X, Tornado/Whirlpool, since post HoT. Lich Form again was use purely for Jagged Horrors. Plague for safe stomp in pvp, though “Chilled to the Bone” gets far more use.

Lahmia.2193:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

I miss tomes too. When used right they would make or break your group in any game mode (PvP/WvW/PvE/Dungeons). It was fun and visually stimulating.

They were actually really good when used properly, but pressing more than one button (Renewed Focus) is apparently too “clunky” for some people. XD

I know right? Anyone that doesn’t play condi engi is a noob. They’re just too dumb to play something with more than one button XD

Condi engis use more than 1 button…not much more but more than 1 nonetheless lol.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Lahmia.2193:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

I miss tomes too. When used right they would make or break your group in any game mode (PvP/WvW/PvE/Dungeons). It was fun and visually stimulating.

They were actually really good when used properly, but pressing more than one button (Renewed Focus) is apparently too “clunky” for some people. XD

I know right? Anyone that doesn’t play condi engi is a noob. They’re just too dumb to play something with more than one button XD

Condi engis use more than 1 button…not much more but more than 1 nonetheless lol.

Reread what I said and you’ll realise it’s the opposite of what you thought I said.

I don’t miss tomes in the sense that I actively used them when they were there, but the missed potential definitely left a sour taste. Hopefully they come back in a more meaningful way. Visually the skills were rly interesting.

cranos.5913:

Visually the skills were rly interesting.

I’d say they were probably the coolest skills in the entire game. Pacify looked amazing and Judgement was extremely powerful and looked powerful too. The only problem with those skills were being locked behind an atrocious cooldown. I still remember carrying groups in Fractal 50 against Shaman with Tome of Courage and using pacify followed by #5 (forgetting name…), looked amazing, felt powerful, sad that the only reason it was viable to use was that people sucked and I had basically 3 minutes between phases so it was refreshed.

Azoqu.8917:

cranos.5913:

Visually the skills were rly interesting.

I’d say they were probably the coolest skills in the entire game. Pacify looked amazing and Judgement was extremely powerful and looked powerful too. The only problem with those skills were being locked behind an atrocious cooldown. I still remember carrying groups in Fractal 50 against Shaman with Tome of Courage and using pacify followed by #5 (forgetting name…), looked amazing, felt powerful, sad that the only reason it was viable to use was that people sucked and I had basically 3 minutes between phases so it was refreshed.

It was both the CDs and the ridiculously long cast times. But yeah, definitely looked cool. Gonna be a real waste if the next e-spec doesn’t reintroduce them tbh.

I kind of hoped that when elites were announced, the Guardian elite would’ve been based on tomes: a sort of… spellcaster Guardian more like: closer to Suriel in the Gauntlet, perhaps. Similarly, I had hoped that necromancers got closer to Liadri, who was just so kitten.

But yes, the tomes were fun but not as useful as they could’ve been.

I think “spellcaster guardian” is part of the theme and gameplay of tomes that people really enjoyed. I hope the next elite spec follows along that, and I feel like that’s what a lot of people meant when they wanted a ranged guardian, not a ranger-wannabe. The biggest legitimate complaint about tomes was that they could only be used for 30 seconds every 3 minutes.

While on topic, Signet of courage is awful, even if the active is really powerful, the passive AoE is terrible and so is the 3.75sec cast time.

It’s not like Guardian is lacking a powerful elite skill since the 3 other ones are very viable, but changing signet of courage into a buff that reduce condition duration by like 15% for 5 targets(at 600 radius) and the active be 5sec resistance to 5 targets with a 2-3sec cast being able to cast on the move, would make it an option to consider in WvW or PvP, with same 180sec cd.

Sherman.4631:

While on topic, Signet of courage is awful, even if the active is really powerful, the passive AoE is terrible and so is the 3.75sec cast time.

It’s not like Guardian is lacking a powerful elite skill since the 3 other ones are very viable, but changing signet of courage into a buff that reduce condition duration by like 15% for 5 targets(at 600 radius) and the active be 5sec resistance to 5 targets with a 2-3sec cast being able to cast on the move, would make it an option to consider in WvW or PvP, with same 180sec cd.

I mean they could easily fix the passive so it procs every 3 seconds instead of 10.

Sherman.4631:

While on topic, Signet of courage is awful, even if the active is really powerful, the passive AoE is terrible and so is the 3.75sec cast time.

It’s not like Guardian is lacking a powerful elite skill since the 3 other ones are very viable, but changing signet of courage into a buff that reduce condition duration by like 15% for 5 targets(at 600 radius) and the active be 5sec resistance to 5 targets with a 2-3sec cast being able to cast on the move, would make it an option to consider in WvW or PvP, with same 180sec cd.

Considerably more boring than the full heal. Also it doesn’t have a 180 second cooldown anymore, and it has a 3.25 second cast time.

I’d just make the passive auto-target allies at low health. It’s not like anyone in their right mind would take it over Renewed Focus for purposes of self-survivability anyway, they should stretch the supportive aspect of it.