Guild Wars 2

Symbols, specially Symbol-oriented Traits took a hit in the changes to Greatsword.
Greatsword itself became considerably weaker, but most importantly, less fun due to the longer periods of auto-attack.

Below I suggest something that, in my opinion, addresses both of the above to some extent.

1 – New Type of Symbol: Flash Symbol
- Does not replace existing Symbols
- Can be applied to existing non-Symbol skills.
- Flash Symbols count as Symbols for purpose of Traits.
- Flash Symbols have an activation time like normal Symbols
- Flash Symbols do not have a duration, instead their effect is instant
- Flash Symbols have 1 instant effect
Example: Deal damage; or Burn foes; or Heal allies.
- Flash Symbols have 1 situational effect
Example: Applying Regeneration to allies that are affected by a Condition; or Dazing foes that are Burning.
- Flash Symbols do not create Combo Field.
- All Flash Symbols are Combo Finisher: Blast

This allows ANet to keep Symbol Traits useful without making skills incoherent.

2 – Give Leap of Faith a Chain (Flash Symbol):

• Symbol of Radiance
  Flash Symbol. Burn a mystic symbol into the ground that damages foes. Burning enemies are also Dazed.
  Activation Time: 1/2 s
  Daze: 1s.
  Radius: 180.
  Combo Finisher: Blast
  Note #1: Leap of Faith’s recharge time begins counting down when Leap of Faith is used.
  Note #2: Symbol of Radiance can be activated within 5 seconds of Leap of Faith.
  Note #3: Symbol of Radiance’s animation would be lifting the Greatsword up with both hands, causing a beam of light to strike from above, causing a bright explosion and briefly flashing a symbol on the ground.

If you are wondering about the increase in damage for Guardian Greatsword, the answer is: The difference between Symbol of Radiance vs 1 Auto-Attack – and note that every 3 auto-attacks give you Might.

3 – Lightning Skills and Combo Fields
Give Guardians some Lightning-themed utility skills, in particular with Combo Field: Lightning.
I think it’s an element that fits the concept of Guardian, specially considering the fact Paragon (wich used Lightning) was merged into Guardian in the Lore.

4 – A bit offtopic, but please give Combo Finisher: Whirl a proper whirlwind animation, hitting everything in its radius instead of random multi-projectile, possibly having a reduced radius (comparing to the projectile range) to compensate.

I think this way Greatswords would become alot more interesting.

Maybe 15s on both Leap and field (and return skill order), 1s less duration on a field and chain leap for a bit more damage (alternatively, just up a damage on a field or ww).

Frankly, I`m more in favor of just reverting all CDs and changing light field to fire field. We do have other weapons for light fields, mass-removal of conditions is more of a group priority, and in groups you are more likely to make use of staff or mace as a second weapon anyway.

I cant see Anet giving us anything extra like daze etc, but maybe they can do with minor duration/cd/damage tweaks.

Fire field instead of Light field means losing the ability to remove conditions with Whirling Wrath and Binding Blades, and Retaliation with Leap of Faith.
You’d be losing something important to gain the damage.
Plus, all Symbols are Light Field.

My suggested changes are actually pretty solid in that they don’t bring problems to guardians or other professions, nor cause incoherence between skill concepts.
Correct me if I’m wrong, though.

The only “less coherent” change I suggest is making the Whirl and Projectile properties different for Light field, but only because single-target projectiles are rarely aligned with teammates on purpose just for the sake of condition removal.

Any further comments?

Maybe this is too OP.
But thigs like a simbol that can be activated after the leap of faith, like cripple when you are in the field and 1 sec cripple when you go out of that, can be funny.

Guanglai, of all I wrote that’s all you have to say?

I agree with you maybe the Daze on Projectile Combo wasn’t such a good idea.
Editing original post to reflect that.

What about the rest?

@Ganzo
Daze on Light Field Projectile may be OP.
But what about Wrathful Verdict?
It has melee range and not a very big radius, and only Dazes enemies that are already Burning.

I think the maxim of the guardian is having very little direct control (We have only 2 interrupts: GS pull and Hammer KB), but have good options to avoid damage altogether.

Daze is really OP. Change back the symbol, give it shorter Retaliation (1sec or so), and remove Retaliation on SYS and SYG to compensate (which are the main source of near-infinite retaliation).

Autoattacking is just fine, considering most guardian abilities are situational, and we have very limited burst capability anyway. The staff, which you have to cycle between 4 abilities constantly, is already getting too clunky; 1 and 2 can be combined to a narrow cone or a something similar to a bouncing beam. I prefer a good spammable autoattack and 4 abilities which has its own situational use, over CD-watching, button mashing anytime.

You can’t really change the duration of Retaliation on SoW without making it incoherent, because it applies 1s of Retaliation every tick, and ticks 5 times.

I agree Daze may be OP, so I have withdrawn my suggestion to change Light Field Projectiles.
But adding Daze to a Chain skill and requiring Burning targets isn’t OP at all.
You’ll need to use Wrathful Verdict immediately after a 4-5th attack, Judge’s Intervention or VoJ (traited for AoE if you want AoE Daze) – all for a 1s Daze.

I made some very important changes to the original suggestion, namely introducing a new concept of Symbol.

Your idea have some good points, but for other point im not so conviced.

1 – New Type of Symbol: Flash Symbol
- All Flash Symbols count as Symbols for purpose of Traits.
- All Flash Symbols have 1 instant effect (damage or healing).
- All Flash Symbols have 1 situational effect (condition or boon)

ok this is a good idea but:

1)elements, so if we have no light combo, the only element we have is fire… So we need another element to apply your idea (fire is already on consecrations ^^), and the only element that is not shared between classes, is Lightning (flash simbol you know :P), simply flash simbols act with normal combos, but with a different element ^^

2)now you have proposed this idea for leap of faith, and i agree with this… What im thinking is that all the guardians weapons need a simbols (maybe even the #5 skill of the shield, need something like this ^^) because simbols are our trademark U_U

I totally agree Lightning is a good element for Guardian.
I’ll add it to my suggestion.

Regarding 1) and 2), I think you misunderstood.

I’m not suggesting that Symbols should change.
I’m suggesting that NEW Symbols should be added – Flash Symbols do not replace Symbols.
With my idea, you have 2 types of Symbols:
- normal Symbols, wich always give Combo Field: Light, have a duration, deal damage over the duration and provide a beneficial effect with every pulse.
- Flash Symbols, wich are Combo Finisher: Blast, are instant, only provide EITHER damage OR beneficial effect, and have an additional effect with prerequisites.

ok the word simbol take me in the wrong path.
You are proposing a simple AOE attack, with different effects.
Well in not so sure of this. we arent elementalists, i like the idea of putting something to the ground that last some seconds and can “control” the enemy move.
i prefer the idea of a Normal simbol (a simbol skill) with a good radius and effect, and the flash version(less concentration, less “mana”), tied to another skill with lesser effects\and radius.

Wow, the only thing that can be ripped from dervishes is “Flash” in the name.
I find it amazing you decided to make a comment based on something as irrelevant as that.

If anything else in these suggestions looks like Dervish, then you certainly didn’t play Dervish.

Anyway, when Guardian gets some Paragon-esque skills, Land Spear skills and whatnot, Lightning will make more sense.

Flash Symbol may not be the ideal name, as Flash is usually related to “no activation time”.
Feel free to suggest a better naming.

Honestly, I don’t think this would do anything to help the greatsword save make it a pain the kitten for devs to balance. In fact, we already have flash enchantments via our virtues, anyway. The idea would be better off as a Grandmaster trait in the Zeal line, and affect our symbols in general…not the greatsword specifically. So the symbols would be modified to grant both a boon to allies, and a condition to foes inside when it pulses.

Symbol of Swiftness: causes enemies to become chilled by the holy wind for 1s per pulse.

Symbol of Wrath: causes enemies to suffer one random condition per second, with duration 1 second.

Symbol of Protection: cripples enemies passing through for 1s per pulse.

Symbol of Faith: blinds enemies inside for 1s per pulse.

The Symbol of Faith would probably be a bit imbalanced, but you see where I’m coming from. I’d rather the dev’s utilize our traits to include new functions to existing abilities, rather than create a whole new system that seems to be based around making a single weapon better.

What makes Symbols potentially unbalanced is the fact they apply their effect with every pulse.

Your suggestion gives unnecessary power to weapons for wich Symbol Traits are fine, while still leaving Symbol Traits pretty useless to Greatsword.

The goal in my suggestion isn’t anything like Flash Enchantment from GW1.
You read wrong.

Flash Symbols would be a simple, single-hit AoE.
All so that the Greatsword (and any other Weapon that may have weak Symbol) can make proper use of Symbol Traits, without making other weapons overpowered.

Essentially, with Flash Symbol as a Chain after Leap of Faith, you would have – theoretically – 1 symbol every 15 seconds + 1 symbol every 20 seconds = ~1,2 symbols every 10 seconds, close to what SoW used to be when it had 10 second recharge.

The Flash Symbols does not benefit from Writ of Persistence, because it doesn’t have a duration.

So the Symbol Traits would be useful for Greatsword once again, without adding OP Boon generation to the equation.

You’re missing the point of my post, which was not to give specifics on what can be added to the symbols, as those were merely suggestions: you’re trying to create a new set of abilities for Guardian, all to shore up a weakness of the Greatsword. In other words, you’re adding needless complications towards balancing the Guardian.

If a symbol is weak, they need to buff it, not add a new system to Guardian. I get it, you’re disappointed with the Greatsword changes, but this is not a good system to replace what we have been given. And again, you’d be better off asking for changes to our traits and skills, not ability sets overall.

Revert the cooldown and have it give might which stacks to a reasonable level. Best fix imo

Rolyate.6753:

Revert the cooldown and have it give might which stacks to a reasonable level. Best fix imo

Pretty much, though the GS didn’t necessarily lose damage output with the changes. I wouldn’t be averse to them reverting the GS changes, though I would like to see a revision to Retaliation. At the moment, the boon is just bland.

Reversing the SoW cooldown to 15 would be a decent mid term.

Draeka.5941:

You’re missing the point of my post, which was not to give specifics on what can be added to the symbols, as those were merely suggestions: you’re trying to create a new set of abilities for Guardian, all to shore up a weakness of the Greatsword. In other words, you’re adding needless complications towards balancing the Guardian.

If a symbol is weak, they need to buff it, not add a new system to Guardian. I get it, you’re disappointed with the Greatsword changes, but this is not a good system to replace what we have been given. And again, you’d be better off asking for changes to our traits and skills, not ability sets overall.

I understand what you’re saying. But here’s the thing:

• Guardian GS has always been a little too focused on auto-attack, compared to other weapons. Now, it became even worse. So, to me, this is a gameplay issue as well.
• Symbol traits are weak for GS, right now, because can cast SoW half as often as you used to.
  - ANet can’t buff SoW damage too much because it risks giving GS too much spike damage.
  - ANet cannot lower SoW recharge time too much without inadvertedly buffing Retaliation.

My suggestion, thus, aims to:
- Make GS a little more active by adding an extra skill to use.
- Make Symbol Trait synergy better for GS without adding dangerous burst damage.
An extra skill doesn’t add burst damage because it costs activation time.

I’m not saying my idea is perfect or anything.
Just thought it would be nice for ANet to have more tools help them balance professions and weapons within those professions, while keeping as many build options open and viable as possible.

Though I suppose it’ll also work well if:
- SoW reverts to 10 second recharge, but gives Might instead of Retaliation
- LoF stays at 15 sec recharge

Retaliation would make more sense in a Symbol of Vengeance.

Seriously, before we start pushing out the same idea over and over under slightly altered names each time, can we focus on fixing stuff that guardians actually could use? Like weapon traits that actually do something?

You want some kind of fancy followup to Leap of Faith. We get it. Why make the same thread twice?

The guy was just trying to help. You don’t have to be rude about it.

I honestly think it’s a good idea.

I didn’t make a new thread.
I renamed it because I changed some of the suggestion, and added more stuff to it as well.

The thread initially did not have anything regarding Flash Symbols.
I suggested a Chain for Leap of Faith that was simply an AoE – wich didn’t help the Symbol Traits at all.

Now, I changed it to a Flash Symbol, wich does help Symbol Traits.

I also added the suggestion to add the Paragon’s Lightning Skill-theme to Guardians, specially Combo Fields.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Seriously, before we start pushing out the same idea over and over under slightly altered names each time, can we focus on fixing stuff that guardians actually could use? Like weapon traits that actually do something?

You want some kind of fancy followup to Leap of Faith. We get it. Why make the same thread twice?

You should make a thread about it.
This is one way to fix “stuff that guardians actually could use”.
You happen to have a different idea, and I respect that.

Combo fields for lightning shouldn’t happen. Guardians do not need a massive ability to daze and inflict vulnerability. The one profession in the game that can cause a lightning field can already massively exploit it, we don’t need more of this.

Or we can just make Light Field’s whirl and projectile finishers something that doesn’t suck. Or just change the projectile finisher and make binding blades a projectile. Or we can make it so the whirls remove conditions from ourselves as well. Or we can finally start to nerf warriors. All good ideas.

Kita.7819:

Or we can just make Light Field’s whirl and projectile finishers something that doesn’t suck. Or just change the projectile finisher and make binding blades a projectile. Or we can make it so the whirls remove conditions from ourselves as well. Or we can finally start to nerf warriors. All good ideas.

Light Projectile doesn’t suck.
It works like this: You fire a projectile, and that projectile removes a condition on all allies around the target hit by the projectile.

If you are near the enemy, it removes a condition from you as well.

Whirl works the same way.
However, Whirl sucks for ALL combo fields simply because its random.
No amount of player skill can ever ensure you will hit the target unless you are INSIDE the target and it has a huge hitbox (PvE), in wich case you will even hit the target with ALL projectiles.

That’s why I suggest Whirl should feel like a whirlwind, split in 3 spiral effects, but hitting EVERYTHING around you.

In turn, Binding Blade, for example, could become Projectile, and each blade count as a projectile, but that’s another suggestion.

Whirl+light field does not remove conditions from the player using the whirl

if the projectile hits an enemy adjacent to you, it does.
Because the Cleansing Bolt “splashes” condition removal around the enemy hit by the projectile.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Projectile_Finisher

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

“Projectile Finishers apply their effect either to the target foe or to allies adjacent to the target. "
“Whirl Finishers cause multiple projectiles to be launched in random directions; each of these bolts functions like the corresponding Projectile Finisher. "