Guild Wars 2

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

Maybe you shouldn’t have died then.

TriggerSad.2597:

Maybe you shouldn’t have died then.

huh? who said the op died?

Dynnen.6405:

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

And still not able to bunker mid.

Daecollo.9578:

Dynnen.6405:

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

And still not able to bunker mid.

The ironic thing about that is, with the help of a Guardian, they can.

Daecollo.9578:

Dynnen.6405:

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

And still not able to bunker mid.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1nhc9d/teambuilds_from_this_weekends_mlg_invitational/

I’m okay with having less hp and even less DPS to a warrior, but what I’m not okay with is they have better passive healing. Guardians should have the stronger passive heal imo. That’s supposed to be part of what makes up for the loss of the other reduced attributes.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I’m okay with having less hp and even less DPS to a warrior, but what I’m not okay with is they have better passive healing. Guardians should have the stronger passive heal imo. That’s supposed to be part of what makes up for the loss of the other reduced attributes.

This. The passive healing advantage Warriors have over Guardians is obscene right now. I’m really not sure how Anet let this happen, since the idea was that you give up a high HP pool in return for more access to heals as a Guardian.

This is so true basically everything except for blocking projectiles warriors do better.
And Mesmer reflect better than guards too. Now i know a lot of guards are going to tell me l2p but i don’t care. My warrior hit like a truck block all damage for 7 seconds.
Regen endurance faster without proccing vigor. I’m having a blast.

Dynnen.6405:

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

You dont sound like you love it. In fact… could you be… gasp is that sarcasm?!

But yeah, it’s true. The passive healing from Healing Signet DOES outheal Virtue of resolve passive.

What it DOESN’T outheal, is Virtue of Resolve + Signet of Resolve + Protection/Regen Weapon Skills + Protection/Regen Utility Skills.

You’ve got to remember, you can’t look at this stuff in a bubble. War #6, is the ONLY heal button. Wars have NO regen or protection from any weapon skills, or utility skills.

The only alternate method of healing available is from traits, such as shout/banner heals…. but then Guardian can do the same thing, and get either Perma-Vigor/Dodge-roll healing, Altruistic Healing, Symbol Healing, or such.

That should tell you a little bit about how you should play your Guardian in PVP. Guardian has never really been a great 1 vs. 1 profession. I don’t see indication that’s going to change either.

TriggerSad.2597:

Maybe you shouldn’t have rolled a red-headed-stepchild-class.

Fixed it for you.

“…and guardians are fine”. LOL!

Svarty.8019:

TriggerSad.2597:

Maybe you shouldn’t have rolled a red-headed-stepchild-class.

Fixed it for you.

“…and guardians are fine”. LOL!

Do you honestly believe that Guardians are a red-headed stepchild class when Engineers exist?

Guardians get minor buffs and fixes almost every patch. A lot of the actual red-headed stepchild classes (Engi, Ele, and PvE Ranger) have to wait ages for any significant changes and still manage to get out-loved by Guardians on major patch dates.

Hell, Engis still have aesthetic issues and are still locked into kit builds just to pretend to compete with other professions.

Guardians still hard counter Warriors, you just have to use the correct build. Also there’s almost no chance dying to 1v1 (except if you don’t run PoV and they’re Sw-Sh/LB).

Yes, the passive heal is overpowered and is badly designed.
Healing Signet shouldn’t surpass 100hp / second on the passive (absolute max), but this doesn’t hurt the Guardian’s, current, significant advantage over warriors.

A bunker Guardian won’t die to a Warrior 1v1 and running Zerka amulet will give you enough damage to win in a 1v1. Maybe you’re not running the right build?

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Svarty.8019:

TriggerSad.2597:

Maybe you shouldn’t have rolled a red-headed-stepchild-class.

Fixed it for you.

“…and guardians are fine”. LOL!

Do you honestly believe that Guardians are a red-headed stepchild class when Engineers exist?

Guardians get minor buffs and fixes almost every patch. A lot of the actual red-headed stepchild classes (Engi, Ele, and PvE Ranger) have to wait ages for any significant changes and still manage to get out-loved by Guardians on major patch dates.

Hell, Engis still have aesthetic issues and are still locked into kit builds just to pretend to compete with other professions.

Go check out the link I posted. Or watch the vods. Engis are in a great place in pvp. I’m not sure how they are in pve though. In PvP they are amazing. The current meta of condi bunker is so strong right now, and engis can do it better than almost anyone.

As for healing, yes warriors are in a great place. That again is just because of the current meta, and the current stats available on gear. A warrior can heal for 700 health per second, while having over 3k armor, and 25k health. They don’t actually sacrifice much damage to do it, because with a condi setup you can go dire armor/weapons condi damage/toughness vit with healing power/toughness/condi dmg accessories.

Without a viable condi damage build guardians are going to fall further behind in that aspect.

If you take a look at the recent setups
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP3WL5mu_57tZfSqFLjDr7dWs9nHVMHzM

Stunning styles is really good, he plays a damage guardian better than anyone I’ve watched. Yet in that video is a good example of what happens. @1:58 they start talking about it. Gotta give him credit, he’s better than I will ever be.

Dand.8231:

Dynnen.6405:

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

You dont sound like you love it. In fact… could you be… gasp is that sarcasm?!

But yeah, it’s true. The passive healing from Healing Signet DOES outheal Virtue of resolve passive.

What it DOESN’T outheal, is Virtue of Resolve + Signet of Resolve + Protection/Regen Weapon Skills + Protection/Regen Utility Skills.

You’ve got to remember, you can’t look at this stuff in a bubble. War #6, is the ONLY heal button. Wars have NO regen or protection from any weapon skills, or utility skills.

The only alternate method of healing available is from traits, such as shout/banner heals…. but then Guardian can do the same thing, and get either Perma-Vigor/Dodge-roll healing, Altruistic Healing, Symbol Healing, or such.

Cool, sounds like warrior don’t have regeneration banner builds that heal 5 – 25 people, or shout that can reach higher than meditation heal and don’t forget that warrior shout only heals 5 people. Unlike the Guardian one that only heal our self. So yeah, except those two utility builds they have nothing to heal themself. But then again, i’ve seen more unicorns in GW2 than i’ve seen Shout or banner builds so maybe they don’t exist except when you check traits.

The only thing we have that warrior don’t is Aegis and Protection.

Really not sure what kind of delayed stuff is going on with their forums. For some reason it says I posted the same thing twice. Once 5 hours ago, and once 15 minutes ago.

Anyway, warriors have much better passive healing than guardian. That’s just a fact,

healing signet 392 .05
adrenal health 42-120 .05

Lets say they only have 300 hp from their traits, that puts them at 392+15, 42-120+15 per second. With no adrenaline they heal for 464 per second, with full adrenaline they heal for 542 per second.

Let’s say they only put 15 points into defense. They get 150 toughness, 150 healing, passive regen, extra armor>90%, and dogged march. Still if you want to calculate the passive regen with 150 hp
450 health per second with no adrenaline, 528 per second with full adrenaline.

Hmm, with almost full clerics gear and around 1,500 healing power, on average, I heal for around 600hp per second (virtue+food+regen, you know, the passives)

So, I have to bunker up in clerics for 600 hp/s and warriors can go all out in berserkers gear and almost have the exact same passive?

Then again, I also have my 1.5k dodge roll heals every few seconds, and all of my other skills that do healing (staff 2 heals what, 1.5k? and empower heals for around 3k at the end, virtue also heals close to 3k)

Still, I think its a bit too much for warriors and a bit too little for guardians, maybe buff up resolves passive to maybe 300-400 hp/s? that would be lovely XD

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Really not sure what kind of delayed stuff is going on with their forums. For some reason it says I posted the same thing twice. Once 5 hours ago, and once 15 minutes ago.

Anyway, warriors have much better passive healing than guardian. That’s just a fact,

healing signet 392 .05
adrenal health 42-120 .05

Lets say they only have 300 hp from their traits, that puts them at 392+15, 42-120+15 per second. With no adrenaline they heal for 464 per second, with full adrenaline they heal for 542 per second.

Let’s say they only put 15 points into defense. They get 150 toughness, 150 healing, passive regen, extra armor>90%, and dogged march. Still if you want to calculate the passive regen with 150 hp
450 health per second with no adrenaline, 528 per second with full adrenaline.

dont forget the banner regen

i already shelved my guard for wvw and pvp. sure, guards have blinds, aegis and protections but warriors have almost double HP, insane regen, higher base toughness, can go full bunker and still do insane dps, have lots of soft cc and have lots of mobilities 2nd only to thieves.

Abardagul.5849:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Really not sure what kind of delayed stuff is going on with their forums. For some reason it says I posted the same thing twice. Once 5 hours ago, and once 15 minutes ago.

Anyway, warriors have much better passive healing than guardian. That’s just a fact,

healing signet 392 .05
adrenal health 42-120 .05

Lets say they only have 300 hp from their traits, that puts them at 392+15, 42-120+15 per second. With no adrenaline they heal for 464 per second, with full adrenaline they heal for 542 per second.

Let’s say they only put 15 points into defense. They get 150 toughness, 150 healing, passive regen, extra armor>90%, and dogged march. Still if you want to calculate the passive regen with 150 hp
450 health per second with no adrenaline, 528 per second with full adrenaline.

dont forget the banner regen

i already shelved my guard for wvw and pvp. sure, guards have blinds, aegis and protections but warriors have almost double HP, insane regen, higher base toughness, can go full bunker and still do insane dps, have lots of soft cc and have lots of mobilities 2nd only to thieves.

Same, which sucks for me because I really do like Guardians. The only two classes I’ve played much of since launch has been Guard/Warrior. I’ve leveled the rest, but I’ve never come back to a anything as much as I have those two. I’ve always loved the way they each had their own unique feel to them. Each one had it’s own strengths, and it’s own weaknesses. The problem is the updates went crazy with power creep. The one reason I could justify my Guardians low hp, low heals, and mediocre damage was the buffs. Once the amount of buff ripping, reversing, and generally ignoring them (condi damage vs protection, for those that don’t know protection only helps with direct damage) I just felt left out. Thieves, necros, engis, and mesmers made my boons virtually useless. Once the boons were removed from the equation I was basically a warrior with half the health, lower damage, lower healing, and less support. I say less support because it seems as soon as I do a good amount of buffs there is a necro, or mesmer, there to ruin the day. My warrior can take a banner, toss it down and give everyone around me group regen plus whatever buff I feel is good. The buffs from the banner can’t be stripped/ripped/reversed.

This isn’t saying warriors are OP. I’m not arguing that, because I play a warrior every day and it isn’t true. The problem isn’t warriors, they are in a good spot. The problem is that Guardians in general are not in a good spot. Right now we have exactly one viable build for pvp. The video up there of stunning styles is an example of that. He’s far better than me, and if he can’t make a damage guardian work I have no real hope of it.

Whoever is in charge of skill balance needs to reevaluate why they made Guardians with such low base hp to begin with. If it was really because of passive regen + heals then they need to change the setup. Sure guardians get a bunch of great heals , but that’s only IF you spec for them. The way we are balanced is based around all guardians specing the exact same way. If that’s the case, why even have stat points? Just give us that setup and call it a day.

Sorry I know this was a long post, I’m a bit frustrated though because a character I enjoy very much I no longer feel has a place. Everything I used him for I can accomplish better on my warrior.

Perikittenor.1892:

Dand.8231:

Dynnen.6405:

I love when I lose a 1v1 fight against a warrior who has 8k more hp and his passive healing is 3 times what mine is and I think “Ya know, even after we got nerfed into the ground during the beta events, we still didn’t have that much damage and passive healing”

I love that

You dont sound like you love it. In fact… could you be… gasp is that sarcasm?!

But yeah, it’s true. The passive healing from Healing Signet DOES outheal Virtue of resolve passive.

What it DOESN’T outheal, is Virtue of Resolve + Signet of Resolve + Protection/Regen Weapon Skills + Protection/Regen Utility Skills.

You’ve got to remember, you can’t look at this stuff in a bubble. War #6, is the ONLY heal button. Wars have NO regen or protection from any weapon skills, or utility skills.

The only alternate method of healing available is from traits, such as shout/banner heals…. but then Guardian can do the same thing, and get either Perma-Vigor/Dodge-roll healing, Altruistic Healing, Symbol Healing, or such.

Cool, sounds like warrior don’t have regeneration banner builds that heal 5 – 25 people, or shout that can reach higher than meditation heal and don’t forget that warrior shout only heals 5 people. Unlike the Guardian one that only heal our self. So yeah, except those two utility builds they have nothing to heal themself. But then again, i’ve seen more unicorns in GW2 than i’ve seen Shout or banner builds so maybe they don’t exist except when you check traits.

The only thing we have that warrior don’t is Aegis and Protection.

Alright first off, I very clearly stated that Banner/Shout builds both exist. Along with the various Guardian builds that can do the exact same thing, just in a different way.

Thing about Warrior Banner Build is you sacrifice so much to get it. In PvE, banners are awesome, maybe even OP, as mobs stand around. In WvW, your banner warrior is nothing but a buff-bot, however, because the ever-moving tide of battle means you either carry the banner which makes you a buff-bot, or leave it behind which means it’s not helping you. In PvP, utility banners are pretty lol.

The shout build is far more mobile, but again for shouts to have any real effect, you need to stack the crap out of healing power. And Cleric warriors aren’t doing much killing, they fill the same role as a Cleric Guard. You’ll have decent power, but no Prec, no Crit. It’s something of a bunker build, though less effective than a Cleric Guardian bunker. Shout heals, btw, with some decent healing power, are worth a 2200 heal each, on 20/20/25 second timers for the fastest 3 shouts. That’s 110+110+88, for a total of +308 HP/S total. Roughly the same as having nearly 100% regen uptime… there are PLENTY of guard builds that can get 100% regen uptime.

A Healing Sig + 3 Shout Cleric-War… is roughly equal in HP/S to a Resolve Sig + Resolve Virtue + <insert favorite heal guard build here>

The bottom line is, Guardians and Warriors have very similar healing capabilities.

Consider this
If Warrior healing and regen was really so OP, dont you think we’d have seen Warriors replace Guards, or at least compete alongside them for bunker roles in tPvP?

We didn’t. What we saw were 9 Guardians, and 6 Warriors. And all 6 Warriors were condi immune lockdown builds, not one Shout/Banner regen Bunker Warrior.

Shout is burst healing, not HP/S, what i find silly is the scaling to be 80% and can if wanted to easily outmatch Guard meditation healing, and we only heal ourself. While they heal everyone. Only thanks to the recent buff can we keep at almost the same pace with shout healing contra our medi. Medi used to scale 10% but they changed it to 40%.

And for banner, i don’t know about you. But if im not fighting but rather moving from A to B i tend to pick up a banner and bring it with me to help the few banner warriors that i do see, cause perma regen on 5 – 25 people is kinda op. So help the fellow warrior out and pick up banners if you are not doing anything.

Perikittenor.1892:

Shout is burst healing, not HP/S, what i find silly is the scaling to be 80% and can if wanted to easily outmatch Guard meditation healing, and we only heal ourself. While they heal everyone. Only thanks to the recent buff can we keep at almost the same pace with shout healing contra our medi. Medi used to scale 10% but they changed it to 40%.

And for banner, i don’t know about you. But if im not fighting but rather moving from A to B i tend to pick up a banner and bring it with me to help the few banner warriors that i do see, cause perma regen on 5 – 25 people is kinda op. So help the fellow warrior out and pick up banners if you are not doing anything.

Shout healing is burst healing, but if you sit on your shout and dont cast them, you’re not getting the badly needed bonuses from said shouts. The HP/S I calculated is a breakdown of what shout healing would be at moderatly high healing power, and if every shout healed 100% of its 2200 (no wasted/overhealing) and you used all of them on cooldown.

FGJ is great, but OMM is sorta lame. SIO is also good, but its a stun breaker so you’re choosing to give up your condi removal+stun breaker to get a small heal. A lot of times, you’re forced to sit on SIO and not use it on cooldown, which lowers it’s effective healing over time.

I still dont see what the issue with Warrior having some solid self healing, and some group healing abilities, that they have to spec heavily for.

What’s the issue? Are Guardians mad that Warriors are 80% as good at Bunkering as they are??

Guardians can get Symbols that heal AOE every second, and can get their Resolve Virtue to AOE regen instead of just you.
Warriors can get banners which AOE heal, and shouts which AOE heal.

Also, I cant help but notice this shifted focus from hating on Healing Signet, to hating on Healing Banners and Shouts. Which is it thats so hated? The single Healing Signet on an offensive traited build, which results in about the same healing as an offensive traited guardian?

Warriors CANT get EVERYTHING at once. There is no 30/30/30/30/30 build.

An untraited War does not have better healing than an untraited Guard.
A support heal traited War does not have better healing than a support heal traited Guard.
The only way a warrior ourheals guard is if the warrior traits for healing, and the guard doesn’t.

But a bunker traited Guard does have better bunkering than a bunker traited War.

Shouldn’t it be the Warriors who are upset about this?

It seems to me that the uproar is because a NON-Heal traited guardian is getting outhealed by a HEAL traited Warrior.

Don’t get me wrong. I love Warrior that are banner and shout is also nice. Though harder to notice, and i never had anything against warrior self healing as that is what they are supposed to be. Here lies the problem. They heal other bether than a Guardian do and there “shout heal” depending on you’re healing power will either heal close or more than guardian med healing and i don’t guess you’re shout trait requires 40 traiits in a tree cause then it would make sense. Guardians AoE F2 virtue is not really that good aswell, maxed out it will heal 1 – 5 people who are whitin 240 radius for about 500 – 600 each 1 sec.
And that is not really as reliable as most of the time, alot of people do not benefit from that bonus, This is also assuming full healing gear.
A warrior with full healing gear is going to have Regen base + (healing power x .033) to 1 – 25 targets, slightly more. Now i don’t know what the base for regen is but we are allready up at 333 healing if we assume healing power 1000 and that is rather easy to get.

The other problem most of us see with warrior self healing being high is that they can get to numbers of 1500 Hp/s if we top it on the high scale, And the main reason guard has so low health is cause our passive regen and passive Aegis. And F2 scale worse than warriors self regeneration.

And for our symbol that heal, yeah it is nice but only if you force your’self to use symbol creating weapon, and then there are also limits. For instance. All the symbols heal the same HP/s but they have different cooldown, for instance. Hammer can be keept up 90 – 100% if traited for longer symbols aswell. Mace can be keep about 60 or 90% if you trait it aswell. Then we have GS that only will give you a 25% or 50% uptime
and staff lasting 80% or 100% if traited. And the weird thing is. Al the symbols heal the same. each second.

Does not really make any sense in my eye’s.

Dand, I think the generated hate is directed more at Guardians being left behind with the current buffs to Warriors (among other things), and not necessarily at Warriors. As pointed out, our passive healing and aegis is supposed to be greater than other classes, not the same, or imo, even close to the same. That is the justifcation for having low base health.

Dand.8231:

Warriors can get banners which AOE heal, and shouts which AOE heal.

Remember, they can get one or the other, not both.

Also, speccing for Meditations heal (Monk’s Focus) makes Merciful intervention heal you for about 3-4k when specced for healing power if I remember correctly. That’s pretty much like using Shelter and soon you WILL be able to use it whilst using shelter without needing to get Focused mind and then it would be like using your signet heal… now that’s OP.

EDIT: Did the calculation in SPvP for 1098 healing power. You can get 5k healing from Merciful intervention…. yea… what were you guys saying about heals again?

You do realize that, in order to get that “passive healing” warriors sacrifice their heal skill.
Guardians get a heal on top of the passive regen and all the healing procs.

Dirame.8521:

Dand.8231:

Warriors can get banners which AOE heal, and shouts which AOE heal.

Remember, they can get one or the other, not both.

Also, speccing for Meditations heal (Monk’s Focus) makes Merciful intervention heal you for about 3-4k when specced for healing power if I remember correctly. That’s pretty much like using Shelter and soon you WILL be able to use it whilst using shelter without needing to get Focused mind and then it would be like using your signet heal… now that’s OP.

EDIT: Did the calculation in SPvP for 1098 healing power. You can get 5k healing from Merciful intervention…. yea… what were you guys saying about heals again?

Let’s regain our focus again. Keyword: PASSIVE healing, not active.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Dirame.8521:

Dand.8231:

Warriors can get banners which AOE heal, and shouts which AOE heal.

Remember, they can get one or the other, not both.

Also, speccing for Meditations heal (Monk’s Focus) makes Merciful intervention heal you for about 3-4k when specced for healing power if I remember correctly. That’s pretty much like using Shelter and soon you WILL be able to use it whilst using shelter without needing to get Focused mind and then it would be like using your signet heal… now that’s OP.

EDIT: Did the calculation in SPvP for 1098 healing power. You can get 5k healing from Merciful intervention…. yea… what were you guys saying about heals again?

Let’s regain our focus again. Keyword: PASSIVE healing, not active.

Some people were talking about Shouts surpassing meditations.

And even if we were talking about Passive, with active healing like that, who needs passive healing?

Dirame.8521:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Dirame.8521:

Dand.8231:

Warriors can get banners which AOE heal, and shouts which AOE heal.

Remember, they can get one or the other, not both.

Also, speccing for Meditations heal (Monk’s Focus) makes Merciful intervention heal you for about 3-4k when specced for healing power if I remember correctly. That’s pretty much like using Shelter and soon you WILL be able to use it whilst using shelter without needing to get Focused mind and then it would be like using your signet heal… now that’s OP.

EDIT: Did the calculation in SPvP for 1098 healing power. You can get 5k healing from Merciful intervention…. yea… what were you guys saying about heals again?

Let’s regain our focus again. Keyword: PASSIVE healing, not active.

Some people were talking about Shouts surpassing meditations.

And even if we were talking about Passive, with active healing like that, who needs passive healing?

Aye, which is why I was calling for a focus to the topic.

Passive or Active should be a choice imo. I’ve played Active healing ala Mediations before, and yes the burst healing is nice, but you end up sacrificing DPS to get to it. Thus why Passive healing would become attractive.

You need to do what I did. Level up a warrior and be happy. I barely play my guardian right now, i love him but the tanky/CC/reg/mobility plus damage of warrior has no match vs guardian right now.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Dirame.8521:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Dirame.8521:

Dand.8231:

Warriors can get banners which AOE heal, and shouts which AOE heal.

Remember, they can get one or the other, not both.

Also, speccing for Meditations heal (Monk’s Focus) makes Merciful intervention heal you for about 3-4k when specced for healing power if I remember correctly. That’s pretty much like using Shelter and soon you WILL be able to use it whilst using shelter without needing to get Focused mind and then it would be like using your signet heal… now that’s OP.

EDIT: Did the calculation in SPvP for 1098 healing power. You can get 5k healing from Merciful intervention…. yea… what were you guys saying about heals again?

Let’s regain our focus again. Keyword: PASSIVE healing, not active.

Some people were talking about Shouts surpassing meditations.

And even if we were talking about Passive, with active healing like that, who needs passive healing?

Aye, which is why I was calling for a focus to the topic.

Passive or Active should be a choice imo. I’ve played Active healing ala Mediations before, and yes the burst healing is nice, but you end up sacrificing DPS to get to it. Thus why Passive healing would become attractive.

I personally don’t think we sacrifice much of anything to get that healing. But with the change to Focused Mind coming, people won’t need to take right-handed strength anymore and this should change the point spread a little bit.

Sorry OP guardians have the highest HPS in the game you have to remember you proc AH plus you can take symbol heals and the more people around you the more insane your heals. Warriors are great back bunkers and can survive for a while 1v2. Guardians can’t survive as long 1v2 but they can decide team fights and keep their entire team alive.

Big picture Guardians are not 1v1 bunkers unless they run meditation builds. And meditation builds in tourneys is O.o for bunkering.

^not sure if serious….

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

Oh I think I understand you now. You’re talking about Healing Per Second, not Health PointS.

Still, you need to correct yourself, Guardians can potentially have the highest Healing, but you have to invest in it to do that.

Red Falcon.8257:

You do realize that, in order to get that “passive healing” warriors sacrifice their heal skill.
Guardians get a heal on top of the passive regen and all the healing procs.

They can also get passive regen based on adrenaline level, as well as banner passive regens and the actual banner of tactics shout/regen skill (#2 I think it is). Not saying it’s a viable method, but a warrior certainly can out regen a guard if done right. Their heals are too op at the moment. I know it would be tricky to balance though, because if they nerf it too much the warrior would take a huge hit in survivability

Them tears, are delicious, it was about time Guardians cried out in frustration.

This behavior comes from not being able to defeat all classes, and outperform everyone in both PvP/PvE.
Welcome to the “balanced” state, lovechild’s.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Oh I think I understand you now. You’re talking about Healing Per Second, not Health PointS.

Still, you need to correct yourself, Guardians can potentially have the highest Healing, but you have to invest in it to do that.

Yah and so do warriors. Granted they don’t have to go 30 deep to get some good healing. But I think even ANET agrees they may have over done healing signet.

jportell.2197:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

You’re completely wrong actually.
I’ll let you contemplate why before telling you

O.k., took a short break. To be fair, it’s been that way for awhile. It seems I always end up going back to rts/moba games. I don’t think MMO games have enough depth. The only one to ever hold my focus long was GW1.

So, now that I’m back let’s take a look at what some people have been saying. Then we will use simple math, or better yet video evidence to correct them.

Consider this
If Warrior healing and regen was really so OP, dont you think we’d have seen Warriors replace Guards, or at least compete alongside them for bunker roles in tPvP?

We didn’t. What we saw were 9 Guardians, and 6 Warriors. And all 6 Warriors were condi immune lockdown builds, not one Shout/Banner regen Bunker Warrior.

Wow, way to be wrong about almost everything you say. I will go back in a later post and specifically point out everything you’ve noted that is wrong. Let me start with the above.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:TahiriVeila/MLGInvite27Sep2013

That also has the links to the vods, so you can see for yourself. Just in case though I will link the playlist here also.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP3WL5mu_57tZfSqFLjDr7dWs9nHVMHzM

I still dont see what the issue with Warrior having some solid self healing, and some group healing abilities, that they have to spec heavily for.

You missed the point completely. The point wasn’t that “oh no warriors have sustain, nerf them”. It was that Guardians were supposed to have low base health because of their passive sustain. Warriors have almost double the health of a guardian at level 80. The argument isn’t about nerfing warriors, it’s that guardians should get a buff to their passive healing to compensate for the power creep.

In those videos I linked, and I like how most of the warriors here ignore those, you will see warriors bunkering better than guardians. That’s a fact, and it’s even mentioned by the casters at certain points.

In spvp you can run 20/20/30 or 10/30/30 condi bunker builds. Sw/sw lb, You can go with a settler setup that gives a little over 3500 armor and around 1100 condi damage while having 21k health. You can run a rabid amulet/carrion jewel 1400 condi damage 3200 armor, 22k health, but only 200/300 healing power. Even at that amount healing signet is ticking for a min of 400 health per second, and adrenal health 155-390 every 3 seconds. If you go with a banner build you will get the passive regen from that. The increased area from the banners including the regen is 900. So a passive 900 aoe regen + whatever buffs the banners give. What makes it strong is that those buffs can not be removed etc.

I run this build in wvw using pve food etc and it’s pretty crazy how many people it takes to kill me.

I will go on in another post. I think some of the warriors here are assuming that the guardians here want them nerfed. That is incorrect, as they don’t need a nerf. The rest of them are afraid if Guardians get a buff they will be viable for more than one spec again. That’s not something to fear, because it opens up build diversity. One of the most powerful combinations you will ever encounter is a Guardian/Warrior combo. That’s the point behind a team though, to compliment each other.

edit

I noticed that most of the warriors, and guardians, here seem to be overlooking the true power of condi bunkers. Rangers/Warriors are right now the absolute best at it. They both have the tools for instant rally, they have great regen, condi removal, and application. Some of the teams in the tournament I linked have already started to switch out for warrior over ranger bunkers. A few took both and dumped engineer/necro to replace them.

The problem is the current meta, and the way the game is being balanced around that. It’s leaving some professions behind in order to try and balance out things. If guardians had a good condition spec it wouldn’t be an issue because they could potentially spec the same as a warrior and go for a condi bunker. So it all depends on if they are given some conditions to augment this. If not they are going to continue to be left behind, much like the ele, because they don’t have a good source of easily applied bleeds/poisons.

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

You’re completely wrong actually.
I’ll let you contemplate why before telling you

So you would rather have a meditation guardian in a team fight? Have fun with that!

Warrior HPS easily beats Guardian one on low healing power enviroment.

Guardian has something like 100 HPS from Resolve (higher with absolute resolution, but it’s your condoir emoval then so you shouldn’t expect a 100% upkeep).
Shelter is 150-160 HPS, Signet is about 210 HPS, traited signet (which seem a pretty bad choice for sPvP btw) is still at 260-270 HPS.

A 400 HPS from Signet of Healing easily beats Healing skill + Resolve from a guardian.

A triple meditation build with 20% CD rduction and Monk Focus tops a 220 HPS if skills are spammed on recharge.
A warrior with just healing signet and adrenal health is fairly equal in healing to a Guardian running shelter and full specced on medis (and resolve up obviously).

Guardian can obviously beat warrior healing on the right enviroment and using a pure defense/support build, that’s one of the reasons why the class is prefered as mid point bunker.
The problem here is that a pretty standard warrior build (Healing Signet + 20 points in defense for Cleansing Ire, with everything else at warriors choice) beats Guardian (which has quite lower base HP because it’s supposed to have better natural sustain) base healing and it’s on par even whith the Guard making a quite high investment on survivality.
In this situation, it’s hard for a Guardian to be really competitive in any role but bunkering, and even then, pidgeonholed to mid bunker where he can benefit from AH and/or provide a pretty ncie team support.
The amount of investment a guardian, low HP tier soldier class, has to make in order to compete with his high HP tier counterpart is pretty weird.

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

You’re completely wrong actually.
I’ll let you contemplate why before telling you

So you would rather have a meditation guardian in a team fight? Have fun with that!

Sorry, you’re right about the fact that meditation Guardians are terrible in teamfights. You are wrong about everything else though. I was over exaggerating because your head’s extremely far up your butt and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

What do you think keeps bunker Guardians alive? Because you seem to think it’s regeneration + AH, which is wrong.

Vargamonth.2047:

The amount of investment a guardian, low HP tier soldier class, has to make in order to compete with his high HP tier counterpart is pretty weird.

good summary

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

You’re completely wrong actually.
I’ll let you contemplate why before telling you

So you would rather have a meditation guardian in a team fight? Have fun with that!

Sorry, you’re right about the fact that meditation Guardians are terrible in teamfights. You are wrong about everything else though. I was over exaggerating because your head’s extremely far up your butt and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

What do you think keeps bunker Guardians alive? Because you seem to think it’s regeneration + AH, which is wrong.

Regen/AH/Boons/High HPS/Blocks Tons of heals in weapons and skills

Need I go on? Must you try educating me more oh wise one that knows all and sees all or can you remove your foot from your mouth now.

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

You’re completely wrong actually.
I’ll let you contemplate why before telling you

So you would rather have a meditation guardian in a team fight? Have fun with that!

Sorry, you’re right about the fact that meditation Guardians are terrible in teamfights. You are wrong about everything else though. I was over exaggerating because your head’s extremely far up your butt and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

What do you think keeps bunker Guardians alive? Because you seem to think it’s regeneration + AH, which is wrong.

Regen/AH/Boons/High HPS/Blocks Tons of heals in weapons and skills

Need I go on? Must you try educating me more oh wise one that knows all and sees all or can you remove your foot from your mouth now.

Dodges.

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

^not sure if serious….

If you are your team fight bunker then I am dead serious… Meditation heals are selfish in team fights and do jack for your team. AH plus shouts/symbols is some very high HPS. If I ever had a team fight bunker running meditations in tourneys I would say GTFO. Meditations are fine for back bunking not for team bunking. And yes guardians do have the highest HPS in the game.

Edit: A meditation guard can survive 1v2 for awhile. An AH guard can’t survive as long… The two builds just work differently.

You’re completely wrong actually.
I’ll let you contemplate why before telling you

So you would rather have a meditation guardian in a team fight? Have fun with that!

Sorry, you’re right about the fact that meditation Guardians are terrible in teamfights. You are wrong about everything else though. I was over exaggerating because your head’s extremely far up your butt and you don’t know what you’re talking about.

What do you think keeps bunker Guardians alive? Because you seem to think it’s regeneration + AH, which is wrong.

Regen/AH/Boons/High HPS/Blocks Tons of heals in weapons and skills

Need I go on? Must you try educating me more oh wise one that knows all and sees all or can you remove your foot from your mouth now.

Dodges.

Dodges=healing in bunker guard world.

jportell.2197:

blah blah

I’ll elaborate further so everybody can understand. In easy dot points yayyy!!

• Meditation builds are burst only.
• AH builds are backpoint or point assault.
• AH builds can also support the team fight, they hybridize.
• Bunker builds rely on regeneration, dodges and shelter/rf to live. They can easily hold a point for kitten against two players. If you can’t you’re doing it wrong and if nobody could do it the build would be changed so they could.
• Meditation Guards are not terrible in team fights, they play a different role (roamer)
• AH on a bunker is only used currently due to PoV bug meaning you don’t need many points in Virtues. In 9 days this won’t be the case.
• Guardians have to spec heavily into heals, it restricts a lot of our builds completely, I don’t mind this but if you were to put majority of our survivability on a low investment passive then we would have a lot more choices for builds (like warriors).

Saying Guardians have the highest HPS and thus are OP is just stupid. I’ve seen a lot of your other threads on the forums and it’s a lot of misinformed whining. You are now more informed.

Jax.5261:

jportell.2197:

blah blah

I’ll elaborate further so everybody can understand. In easy dot points yayyy!!

• Meditation builds are burst only.
• AH builds are backpoint or point assault.
• AH builds can also support the team fight, they hybridize.
• Bunker builds rely on regeneration, dodges and shelter/rf to live. They can easily hold a point for kitten against two players. If you can’t you’re doing it wrong and if nobody could do it the build would be changed so they could.
• Meditation Guards are not terrible in team fights, they play a different role (roamer)
• AH on a bunker is only used currently due to PoV bug meaning you don’t need many points in Virtues. In 9 days this won’t be the case.
• Guardians have to spec heavily into heals, it restricts a lot of our builds completely, I don’t mind this but if you were to put majority of our survivability on a low investment passive then we would have a lot more choices for builds (like warriors).

Saying Guardians have the highest HPS and thus are OP is just stupid. I’ve seen a lot of your other threads on the forums and it’s a lot of misinformed whining. You are now more informed.

Number one kitten. never said guards were OP. In fact I have never once whined about guards. Reading comprehension is a great thing! Number two Med guards are good roamers because they are DPS. And the POV change should not come in because condi meta is kitten strong still and needs a good counter to it. And what better class to counter it than the “healer” class of this game.

Guardians do infact have the highest Health Per Second gain in this game and that is through AH and shouts plus symbols that provide boons… No other class can match the amount of healing a guardian can dish on themselves and their teammates in group fights.

However once again I never said nor will I ever say guards are OP. They have their weaknesses and are not end all cheese all builds like say warriors atm.