Guild Wars 2

If you want to convey a witch-hunter theme…

Dragonhunter is the word whispered in terror when these overzealous warriors arrive in the local village to seek out its confessions, torture out its secrets, and eventually purify it with flame if any corruption is discovered.

The imagery for Dragonhunters should be seen through the heat-distortion of burning flames and black smoke as people witness in awe and terror the “deeds” of these righteous men who sear the souls and brand holy marks into the flesh of those they deem corrupted. These crusaders burn with fervor and their own perceived righteousness. Their emotions have deadened as their mission has led them down a path of persecution.

They could refer to themselves as Firebrands, which would subtly hint at their own corruption. On one side of the war you have dragons and minions corrupted (branded) and on the other side you have mortals corrupted by justice (the virtue associated with fire).

Dear Mr. Jon Peters…

I feel like you’re treating us like idiots by saying Dragonhunter is a “subtle nuance” or a “high concept”. Just like we could not be able to understand ! Anyway if your concept is not clear enough and if you feel the need to explain it, this is a proof that it is badly done.
Although it is a good approach to try to make things clear, you would already know that the problem is not there if you had carefully read all the very developped grievances we wrote on various threads across the different forums, on youtube, on reddit etc… We are many to consider this “high concept” as a childish, uncreative, almost lazy concept that you probably dropped at the last minute.

You certainly know about WoodenPotatoes.
His supposition is that, judging by the Dragonhunter attributes (a spear, wings, a shield) you were actually developping a Paragon. But it turned out that without a real spear as a weapon, it would not be a real Paragon. So you had to change that, and found another theme and name.
Actually we have no way to know if this is what happened. But you have to realize that if so many people (WP is clearly not the only one) have had that kind of theories, it means that Dragonhunter name and theme definitely FEEL like they have been dropped on top of a character that was not developped in that direction at all. And for good reasons, because there is no clear link between hunting and the thematic choices you made to create the Guardian at first.

Therefore the result is a specialization that is pretty inconsistent.
When I look at the Dragonhunter, how it plays, how it feels, what it looks like, it’s like it is screaming “Look I am a Guardian !!”. So we are totally IN the Guardian themes there. But the concept of Dragonhunter is shown nowhere. Now as you can see I am actually watching the subject from a different angle.
If you wanted to make a real Dragonhunter, or any draconic themed character, there is no way you would have done it like you did the Guardian-Dragonhunter.
Do you realize that you’re maybe preventing yourselves from creating a real draconic specialization in the future because of that ?

I am sorry, but most of us cannot accept your explanations . I could even say that everytime someone has tried to explain us what was behind the Dragonhunter, it felt even worse after that. Because the core concept is the whole problem. A concept that the developpers did not even bothered to make fit into the Guardian theme.

What is a Guardian in GW2 ? You don’t need a definition, just a short list of words
Justice – Soldier – Light – Protection
You should keep that kind of thematic list in mind when you make a new specialization. Those elements ARE actually in the Dragonhunter as a character, in the gameplay, in the visuals, but they are not in the concept even if you tried to twist it to make it fit. Actually you tried to twist it so much that it is completely far-fetched. And in the end we have something that is pretty inconsistent, mostly because the image you have of a Dragonhunter is absolutely not what most people will think about at first, and that is really important !

There is also one last thing I did not talk about. Dragonhunter sounds bad.
You have set a pretty high standard considering how you choose the names in the GW universe : one word that summarizes the whole concept. This is something you are known for. Going for two words glued together feels like going down in quality for a lot of us.

I did not even cover all we could say against the name and theme of the Dragonhunter, but I think the most important part is there.

Thank you for your intervention anyway.
I hope to see that more often !

Arnath.2319:

phys.7689:

You know, there is a game about hunting and killing demons called diablo III
in it, there is a class called demonhunter
yes, all classes hunt demons, but this one is called demon hunter.

But Demon Hunters in Diablo are dark, filled with hate and rage, they are savage, wanting nothing but the blood of their enemies.

Taken from the wiki:
“Some say that Demon Hunters are no better than the demons they hunt, that they bring death and destruction with them. And indeed, sometimes, a Demon Hunter loses their ability to control their fear or hatred, and consequently lose themselves to their violent impulses. Many Demon Hunters’ eyes glow with hellfire, due to peering into demons and seeing vengeance.”

That sounds nothing like what a Guardian should be, maybe it would work on a Warrior or Ranger, but not a Guardian.

the point is not that guardians and demon hunters are the exact same thing, the point is that just because one thing is called demon hunters, doesnt mean no other proffession/job/whatever can hunt demons.

it also doesnt mean demon hunter is intrinsicly better at hunting demons than any other class.

it is a name that is a description of what they do, They are hunters, that hunt demons specifically.
the guardian spec is a hunter, it uses traps, projectiles, and added mobility, to hunt dragons and the corruption of the dragons. The implication is that specialty came to existence primarily because of dragon corruption and how some guardians reacted to that threat, and altered the way they use their abilities.

This is different from the chronomancer who seems like a mesmer who started messing with the altering of time/perception of time.

Phys, you sort of missed (IMO) the best alternative…

sen·ti·nel
?sent(?)n?l/
noun
1.
a soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.
verb
1.
station a soldier or guard by (a place) to keep watch.

Their traps are not launched like Rangers, so less aggressive and more preemptive and “defensive” in nature. Sentinel also lends well to being a Guardian while also lending to range fighting. It has a perfect fit in just about every way, and while it isn’t as fancy as chronomancer, I feel it is in general more appealing than Dragon Hunter.

The french name is currently Draconnier and it’s not the literal translation of dragonhunter. Somehow it sounds a bit better.

arkealia.2713:

The french name is currently Draconnier and it’s not the literal translation of dragonhunter. Somehow it sounds a bit better.

If only the sonority was the only problem…

I don’t understand why specializations are anything more than a fighting style. A Chronomancer is merely a mage that manipulates time, they don’t by definition have to have any particular goals or ambitions. Why does my guardian, when he chooses to specialize in combat with traps and a longbow, all of a sudden have to adopt new background and ideology that I don’t identify him with?

Wow, I feel like Sentinel is a FANTASTIC name, great suggestion.

There is no need anymore, to explain the term “dragonhunter”. At this point, everyone understands, despite that, we have our gripes with the name.
To make a connection between “dragonhunter” and “Guardian” … is hard. You really have to train yourself to see a connection between dragonhunter and witch-hunter. Therefore, most people will see no connection between dragonhuter and Guardian.
Did something happen in the story, do you fear “Inquisitor Braham” comes off weird? (well, it does.) “Seeker” would fit, if that were a problem.

ronpierce.2760:

Phys, you sort of missed (IMO) the best alternative…

sen·ti·nel
?sent(?)n?l/
noun
1.
a soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.
verb
1.
station a soldier or guard by (a place) to keep watch.

Their traps are not launched like Rangers, so less aggressive and more preemptive and “defensive” in nature. Sentinel also lends well to being a Guardian while also lending to range fighting. It has a perfect fit in just about every way, and while it isn’t as fancy as chronomancer, I feel it is in general more appealing than Dragon Hunter.

I personally dont care what they name it.

but sentinel feels very passive to me, and this class is very active, especially compared to the regular guardian.
They are designed to go in and out of melee rng, leap around, and debilitate enemies.

To me Sentinel is more for like something that stays in one place and watches, thats not the flavor of this spec at all.

I like Sentinel as well.

Dragonbane isn’t bad if they are married to the dragon specific concept. It’s at least more dynamic than Dragonhunter.

Gilburt.9146:

I don’t understand why specializations are anything more than a fighting style. A Chronomancer is merely a mage that manipulates time, they don’t by definition have to have any particular goals or ambitions. Why does my guardian, when he chooses to specialize in combat with traps and a longbow, all of a sudden have to adopt new background and ideology that I don’t identify him with?

This right here is important. It’s the reason why

The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions […]* We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept.

Is not such a good idea.

Players get invested in their character and their story is. Picking a name that is not generic enough beyond the playstyle of that specialization will shoehorn their character into a background they did not initially chose. I think big game hunter is very far from what a guardian player chose.

Was also not such a good idea.*

My overall thoughta since I unintentionally but carelessly derailed the discussion earlier.

Initially I actually loved the name. This was due to the idea that I could see the idea of Guardian, a champion of virtue turning a little darker. The idea of justice turning to vengeance in light of the untold death at the hands of the dragons. Yes Dragons do seem to be part of the natural order but the concepts of justice and vengeance don’t necessarily care about that and in some ways are naturally opposed to natural instinct to reach a higher ideal.

I could see my character who is a Sylvari who was born to cleanse Zhaitan’s undead with fire turning to hunt the dragons and their minions as he turns to revenge having lost so many of his ‘family’ Especially due to the fact that this xpac is taking place in a jungle.

That being said after the Ready Up I am less than favorable to it just because I feel like the abilities don’t necessarily match that concept. The traps and longbow options are very nice however it doesn’t come off as a predator who I would picture as something that stalks and lies in wait for his prey.

A name like ‘Avenger’ or ‘Zealot’ is a lot more fitting. I appreciate that they are trying to branch off and think outside the box. The abilities just have to match the concept.

Jelle.2807:

Gilburt.9146:

I don’t understand why specializations are anything more than a fighting style. A Chronomancer is merely a mage that manipulates time, they don’t by definition have to have any particular goals or ambitions. Why does my guardian, when he chooses to specialize in combat with traps and a longbow, all of a sudden have to adopt new background and ideology that I don’t identify him with?

This right here is important. It’s the reason why

The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions […]* We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept.

Is not such a good idea.

Players get invested in their character and their story is. Picking a name that is not generic enough beyond the playstyle of that specialization will shoehorn their character into a background they did not initially chose. I think big game hunter is very far from what a guardian player chose.

Was also not such a good idea.*

What? Who wouldn’t want to play as these dashing lads? https://www.flickr.com/photos/billthepony/2884372000/

I do not see much wrong with Dragonhunter but , if it has not already been done, would offer up Vigilante as another alternative.

Rashagar.8349:

Genesis.8572:

Let’s put it this way: If the Guardian elite specialization had been ‘inquisitor/avenger/arbiter/paragon’ or just about anything else that has been thrown around , how many apologists of the name ‘dragonhunter’ would have thought that a ‘dragonhunter’ would have been a more apt name and clamoring for that change?

If the guardian elite specialisation had been inquisitor I’d be asking them to remove any overtly religious references. They’ve done a good job of doing that so far, and the specialisation isn’t anything to do with enforcing religious doctrine or rooting out heresy, no matter how close that is to making a pun.

Well, I guess it’s time for you to ask for the removal of religious references. Ironically, the name references exactly what you had an issue with.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

let’s sum this up, doesnt matter how much excuses you put to claim dragon hunter is a suitable name, EVERYONE is a dragon hunter,, we’ve ALL killed zhaitan, thus we are all DRAGON HUNTER’S it’s extremely generic and nothing creative whatsoever, please change the stupid name

Gilburt.9146:

I don’t understand why specializations are anything more than a fighting style. A Chronomancer is merely a mage that manipulates time, they don’t by definition have to have any particular goals or ambitions. Why does my guardian, when he chooses to specialize in combat with traps and a longbow, all of a sudden have to adopt new background and ideology that I don’t identify him with?

Very well said! It’s much too specific in terms of what you are fighting and why. A specialization should only say HOW you kill things, not WHAT/WHY.

I appreciate the high minded thinking Jon, but I think you guys went a little too high on that one. Just because one item will be technically correct by definition or association does not mean it translates well to the people who will be using it.

Dragon hunter sounds cool, but we are all afraid with the name + traps that the new guard spec will get as much love as the bow bear ranger… pew pew pew

Though I can acknowledge that they wanted to put more enphasis in Tyrian concept, Why they didn’t picked Paragon on first place? that goes beyond me..

The main problem with the D.Hunter and Guardian is that, their lore and thematic concepts are absurdly distant from each other.. (warriors and dragonhunters can relate alot better for example)

Sure, it’s another perspective for the guardian theme, but it’s just an unfitting theme for them.

Sentinel works really well.
It’s a border guard and in guild wars 2 background, it works great.
Guardians used to keep their city safe but now that the danger comes from beyond the frontier, they have to investigate further, they became Sentinel.
Once I, as a Sentinel, have found what I came for, I can take my own decision.

“Dragonhunter” is very Dragon-oriented (I know, no kitten sherlock).
To me, it means you’re only role in this xpac is to kill Mordremoth (and his minions) but as a player, I will discover ancient civilization and I may fight enemies which are not dragon-related.

Leo G.4501:

I think you could have condensed your post down to just 1 post if you cut out the more condescending portions of your critique. Really no need to proceed on and on with loaded or hypothetical questions and just stick with a more concise critique, especially for something more simple as a name. That said, I agreed with a lot of what you said but most of it comes off as too harsh and unnecessary questioning that likely won’t get answered and even if it would get answered, you’d just use it to heckle them further…so yeah.

Perhaps, but I felt that there would be plenty of concise critiques already, and I wanted to submit a more expansive post that tackled a lot of the issues discussed by both Jon Peters and guardian players.

For what it’s worth, I did a hypothetical rework that removed the condescending portions, and it still would not have fit one post.

I honestly want to ask something , How possible is that the devs actually heard our suggestions and change the name to something more appropriate ? like seriously. I read a lot of good suggestion here , especially “Sentinel”, sounds good, fix the class concept , less cheesy, When I think about a Sentinel is a Archer that protect something. Also, this :

Ojyh.9842:

What is a Guardian in GW2 ? You don’t need a definition, just a short list of words
Justice – Soldier – Light – Protection
You should keep that kind of thematic list in mind when you make a new specialization. Those elements ARE actually in the Dragonhunter as a character, in the gameplay, in the visuals, but they are not in the concept even if you tried to twist it to make it fit. Actually you tried to twist it so much that it is completely far-fetched. And in the end we have something that is pretty inconsistent, mostly because the image you have of a Dragonhunter is absolutely not what most people will think about at first, and that is really important !

There is also one last thing I did not talk about. Dragonhunter sounds bad.
You have set a pretty high standard considering how you choose the names in the GW universe : one word that summarizes the whole concept. This is something you are known for. Going for two words glued together feels like going down in quality for a lot of us.

Which I think is right , Dragonhunter sounds like something took for Final Fantasy, which is fine with that game, but don’t fix well here. Let analyze the name.
Dragon-hunter, What is the first think that you got when you heard the name ?, even a hunter that hunt dragons , or a hunter that use the power of the dragons. Both concepts are out of place for the Guardian. Every single class in the game hunt dragons and his minions , and based in what we saw the Dragonhunter only have one elite relate to the word “dragon” and i think that a couple of traits (not sure ). In conclusion, I vote Sentinel .

Arbiter is a far, far better name. It fits the theme (Judge/Jury/Executioner of evil) and it’s not laughably generalist like “dragon hunter” (aka every single PC in Tyria)

rapthorne.7345:

Arbiter is a far, far better name. It fits the theme (Judge/Jury/Executioner of evil) and it’s not laughably generalist like “dragon hunter” (aka every single PC in Tyria)

Translation of Arbiter in french : Arbitre.
Yes, it’s a referee.

Harvest.2506:

There is no sense of Justice in Dragon Hunter, Its a Matter of Survival, not a matter of fighting for Morally. You could have just called it “Witch Hunter” and be done with it.

Now I understand you guys like to run your social experiments, or maybe have a cooperate head from NCsoft/nexon suggesting this , Thus making you unable to speak freely. So as a Free unbias person I can call your reasoning flawed. edit for (spelling/grammar)

No Thanks Jon.

This seems over the top. You honestly believe NCSoft came in here and said “hey you MUST name your guardian elite spec Dragonhunter!” I think they have better things to do with their time then worry about the name of a spec. I know people like to think NCSoft is behind every thing they don’t like about the game, but that’s just probably not the case. Sometimes Anet just makes choices and sometimes you just don’t like them. It happens.

‘post hoc ergo proctor hoc’ aside, it is a marketing tool for next gen 11 year old gamers, all of whom will name their avatar some variant of ‘xxlegolasxx’

JonPeters.5630:

A…The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this…

Thanks,

Jon

Haha, subtle and nuanced it certainly is not, you cheeky monkey.

xarallei.4279:

Harvest.2506:

There is no sense of Justice in Dragon Hunter, Its a Matter of Survival, not a matter of fighting for Morally. You could have just called it “Witch Hunter” and be done with it.

Now I understand you guys like to run your social experiments, or maybe have a cooperate head from NCsoft/nexon suggesting this , Thus making you unable to speak freely. So as a Free unbias person I can call your reasoning flawed. edit for (spelling/grammar)

No Thanks Jon.

This seems over the top. You honestly believe NCSoft came in here and said “hey you MUST name your guardian elite spec Dragonhunter!” I think they have better things to do with their time then worry about the name of a spec. I know people like to think NCSoft is behind every thing they don’t like about the game, but that’s just probably not the case. Sometimes Anet just makes choices and sometimes you just don’t like them. It happens.

I say its a possibility, along with social experimental , or if you had read my other post to this, they’re just been out of touch. Either way the name doesn’t fit for reasons others and myself have already stated in terms of technicality, language mechanics, recent history or fantasy franchises, and lore.

Harvest.2506:

I get the point that the purpose of this profession specialization is in taking out the dragons, But it is Very poorly communicated. Traditionally the language to refer to such an opposite would be used with words like Bane., or Slayer, maybe even DragonKnight to get that offensive vibe. With the Hunt, verbs such as Tracking, and patience come to mind, which undermines the whole light magic theme.

You’re spot on about the communication. Whilst I take Jon’s point, the advertising then referred to them as big game hunters which does not fit the explanation at all. Dragonbane or Dragon knight would have been far better.

To go further on Sentinel basis :

If something below sounds wrong, tell me.

Background:
Guardians used to keep their city safe but now that the danger comes from beyond the frontier, they have to investigate further, they became Sentinel.
To reach their goal, they follow the path of rigorism (or rectitude).

Role:
the main purpose is to see if the dragonhunter role can fit with sentinel name

Sentinel can:
- use a longbow.
- use traps to keep a place safe.
- snare enemies until help comes from allies.
- help allies

Traits, skills and traps:
Hunter’s Ward: Sentinel’s Ward
Hunter’s Fortification: Sentinel’s Fortification
Big Game Hunter: Shrewdness of the righteous
Dulled Senses: Got no idea but dulled senses sounds too “hunterish”

I must admit that I love Dragon’s Maw animation and keeping it as a reminder that Sentinel was Dragonhunter before HoT release can be a pretty cool story to tell to newcomers.

dragon hunter… what a fail

Sentinel sounds great to me, but then again, its a personal choice, should we could suggest a name I’d go for that one tho..

We can only hope for ANet to reconsider a name change for a more fitting one.. we can only hope

Ryuu.5608:

Sentinel sounds great to me, but then again, its a personal choice, should we could suggest a name I’d go for that one tho..

We can only hope for ANet to reconsider a name change for a more fitting one.. we can only hope

Considering their stance is “if you don’t like the name dragon hunter, you’re dumb”, a change seems unlikely. But still, it’d be nice to see the community having an impact on the direction of the game.

Look at all this controversy and discussion over the name, this is why Jon said that Dragonhunter is more of a high concept than something like a Chronomancer. Chronomancer barely requires thought, it’s a time mage, that’s it.

But Dragonhunter is basically a Witchhunter or aka Demonhunter but something more fitting for Tyria’s lore where most of the major world-affecting threats comes from dragons, hence Dragonhunter.

Witchhunters are usually hell bent on the eradication of witches/mages/spellcasters of any kind, does that mean in all the universes they exist all spellcasters are evil? No! It is just how the witchhunter perceives them. Same applies to demonhunters and demons.

They are zealous in their pursuit. Sometimes to the point of even utilizing the very magic their enemies use in order to bring them down. An example of this is Demonhunters from Diablo series having access to demonic magic themselves, or witchhunters in Elder Scrolls series utilizing conjuration magic to hunt down mages themselves.

So the Dragonhunter is the same way, a fanatical hunter that believes in eradicating all things to do with dragons. You cannot say this is true for every one in Tyria because since Sylvari are dragon minions then that would mean everyone would be killing all Sylvari, but we aren’t. Thus Dragonhunter, like witchhunter etc. has a special meaning in this context.

Requiring the explanation Jon and others, as well as I, have given is why Jon meant this elite specialization name is more subtle, nuanced, and high concept.

Chronomancer = time mage
Druid = nature magic

Those require little if any thought.

To understand Dragonhunter =/= anyone who hunts dragons requires more thought than the other two.

Whether you feel like all specialization names should require little or no thought, or enjoy them, is a different sentiment entirely. But there’s a lot basis for why ArenaNet decided on this name.

I don’t think this is a high concept at all. It’s pretty simple, and not very clever or original as a name. It also sounds silly, when every player in Tyria is hunting dragons.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t think this is a high concept at all. It’s pretty simple, and not very clever or original as a name. It also sounds silly, when every player in Tyria is hunting dragons.

Literally everyone is killing demons in D3. Why is Demon Hunter not more scorned upon than DH?

They can technically bring out what ever lore than wanted for the Guardian to make Dragonhunters make sense.

Mar.4839:

So the Dragonhunter is the same way, a fanatical hunter that believes in eradicating all things to do with dragons. Y

But I don’t want my guardian to be a “fanatical hunter that believes in eradicating all dragons.” As someone said in another thread, giving a class name “explicit story motivations” is constricting. It forces the PVE story down everyone’s throats- RPers, WVWers, PVPers and even plain old players that just don’t get caught up in the story.

Even with all explainations above, it’s still a poor name because the whole concept can be sweep by someone very low-brow.

Saiyan.1704:

Literally everyone is killing demons in D3. Why is Demon Hunter not more scorned upon than DH?

They can technically bring out what ever lore than wanted for the Guardian to make Dragonhunters make sense.

In D3, there is no ranger.
Dragonhunter sounds like a ranger’s specialization.

Mar.4839:

Witchhunters are usually hell bent on the eradication of witches/mages/spellcasters of any kind, does that mean in all the universes they exist all spellcasters are evil? No! It is just how the witchhunter perceives them. Same applies to demonhunters and demons.

As some said before, the explaination behind Dragonhunter set the goal of the player in stone : you are a Dragonhunter, you’ll spend you’re life to pursue Dragons.

I don’t know if our specialization will have an impact in the story as it was before (engineer / silvary related content) but if it’s the case, I’ll hope my character won’t destroy brill’s egg because “I follow an order that I didn’t chose and they told me to eradicate whatever is dragon-related.”

My main concern is that Dragonhunter sounds like a goal, not like a role.
It’s like I can chose “Dreamfollower” as a silvary or “Sisterseeker” as a human.

Again, Sentinel works better because border guard lives outside the frontier, learns from the civilization and adapt quickly to their new land.
When war comes, they use their knowledge to lead and support their allies into the battle.
It fits both with the Guardian and the Dragonhunter concepts.

Border guard

In different countries, names of particular border guard services vary significantly. The service may be called “police”, “guard”, “troops” or “sentinel” and the name would refer to the nation’s official term for the state border – whether it is “frontier” or “border”.

In case intrusion by foreign elements is confirmed, it is the responsibility of the Border guard based on the post to trace the intruders by checking the nearby settlements, villages and towns[…]

During wartime however the Border guard withdraw from the Border outposts and provide assistance in a limited capacity to the country’s regular army which then comes and mans all the border outposts at the international border facing the enemy neighboring country.
Wartime assistance of the Border guard to the Army is essential as they are familiar with the local terrain having patrolled it on a daily basis during peacetime.

I’ll admit I was surprise with the choice of Dragonhunter first up and thought What The. But the more I hear it and the lore direction Arenanet’s going I find Dragonhunter growing on me.

I really like the reference to Witch Hunters. I can see how through the destruction, the corruption Man & Woman of Virtues, Honour & Faith with the goal to protect all would create an “Order” (Dragonhunter’s) with the goal to exterminate this greater threat/evil. I can also see how Man & Woman of Virtues, Honour & Faith would change into Zealots putting this new ideal above all else, in this way changing their core principles. In a way for me the Dragonhunters feel like the beginning of the White Mantle.

I guess thinking about it what better name when considering the lore direction. Their goal is the extermination of the Elder dragons and the corruption they bring. Just like Witch Hunters goal was the extermination of witches and their associated corruption. This is what I am, a Dragonhunter.

Yes we’re all after the defeat of the Elder Dragons but is that you characters whole focus on life. I would say No. Yes a Chronomancer is going to take up arms to defeat the Elder Dragons as there the greatest threat known in Tyria. Can this Chronomancer be a Dragon Hunter, Yes so can a Thief & the Warrior. But they’re no Dragonhunter. Dragonhunters are an Order that dedicates their life to the extermination of the dragons & their corruption. They don’t see an end and most likely have no idea what they will do once the dragons are defeat.

This is a name that goes to the core behind this Specialization and the lore behind it. It is simple, it is direct, it states the core ideals of this Order.

And No It’s Not Changing What Guardian’s Are. This is Just One Path a Select Group of Guardian’s Have Chosen to Follow.

Another group will choice another path & this will be another Specialization. As of now for me Dragonhunter fits and I look forward to future Specialization as well, hoping some of the name people have put forward are some of the once to come.

Bezagron.7352:

Dragonhunters are an Order that dedicates their life to the extermination of the dragons & their corruption. They don’t see an end and most likely have no idea what they will do once the dragons are defeat.

Like the Vigil, Priory Durmand, Order of Whispers and the Pact.
Do you see where is the problem ?

I hope everyone realizes, and recalls, that they mentioned somewhere about us getting around 5 new elite specializations throughout the years. Almost assuredly all of these specializations are going to get new weapons and utility skill types. We are going to have some weird overlaps with many of the classes, and some of them might not make a whole lot of sense (even though I feel this one makes sense thematically even if the name isn’t perfect, but the name still fits what the class is).

If they didn’t release this Guardian spec now, they almost certainly would have released it in the future at some point. I’m going to prep the popcorn for when the next round of specs comes through.

Considering Jon was pushing pvp e-sports at release (lol) then managed to gate crash a GvG in WvW because it violated his game mode. Then subsequently having been inspired by Skyhammer (probably the most hated PvP map) he helped create the map known as EotM (falling ftl).

Is anyone REALLY surprised he’s behind this decision as well.

He’s collected a bag of silly ideas for sometime. And according to Sacrx’ NDA leak, he’s stubborn to, so don’t expect the name to change any time soon.

Bezagron.7352:

… Can this Chronomancer be a Dragon Hunter, Yes so can a Thief & the Warrior. But they’re no Dragonhunter. Dragonhunters are an Order that dedicates their life to the extermination of the dragons & their corruption. …

I’m going to get snarky here, but imagine…

I’m a Mouthbreather! Of course, every humanoid we are aware of happen to breathe through their mouth. But I’m the member of an Order which dedicates their life to only breathing through their mouth no matter how much garlic we ate for dinner. I even got a skill which is shaped like a mouth to demonstrate my social affiliation. Because we feel extra special, only carpenters are allowed within our order although other professions use their mouth to breathe aswell. I also don’t care that Otorhinolaryngologists might be better mouth breathers than I am – because I’m a Mouthbreather! I dedicated my life to… oh… I already covered that.

See what I did there?

Introducing a random order is just a very lazy way out of their dilemma to justify an otherwise totally lore unrelated class name. It’s not like it doesn’t make any sense at all but it is extremly plain, random, uninspired and – to be honest – below the quality ANet usually provides.

As already stated elsewhere: I do enjoy the concept behind the gameplay of the Dragonhunter. But the name – namely the Dragon part – is so cringeworthy… Arrrgh.

[Edit] Added some ‘artwork’ of a Mouthbreather. Bella knows best.

Would eles be called dragon slayers, then? I mean, the guards are not the only one looking to protect people from the dragons, right?

Though the wings would make me think more of Seraphs, something angelic related, and it does still fit the fight against evil theme.

“Paragons are the guardian angels of Elona, humanity’s champions against malefic threats”. Guardian evolved from paragon and in therms of specialization Dragonhunter feats perfectly.

If we have paragons and they had specializations it will be logic that one of them was Dragonhunter, or somehing relationed to take down the dragons, since they are a malefic threat to the world. In fact i don’t even think that paragon gives a good name for specialization since is the same as a guardian, in terms of roleplay they are names for the same thing other example is paladin.
I think people are thinking that specializations are the same thing as the normal professions where in fact, they are in some way diferent, in my way of seeing they are focused in a topic, dragonhunters are to take dragons out and chronomancer to manipulate the time… both are a particular focus of the class, chronomancer is focused in one tipe of manipulation (mesmer is a class of manipulation and deceive) and guardians are humanity’s champions against malefic threats, and dragons are the most malefic, right now so dragonhunter makes a complete sence about a specialization on that point.

PS: I don’t want to see paragon as specialization, since is to general theme and is the same as the guardian… but i know some people likes nostaligc from gw1 in fact i think that the appearence of a paragon destructs the background of guardian and the evolution that happened on the paragons. But majority wins, and even if it does not make much sence on lore we will have paragon on future… so just wait

“With the turmoil in Elona and the spread of the Order of Whispers into other lands, more Paragon teaching showed elsewhere in Tyria. These teachings melded with other traditions, and over time, the guardians and their abilities can be found throughout the world and among all the races. "

Bezagron.7352:

…through the destruction, the corruption Man & Woman of Virtues, Honour & Faith with the goal to protect all would create an “Order” (Dragonhunter’s) with the goal to exterminate this greater threat/evil. I can also see how Man & Woman of Virtues, Honour & Faith would change into Zealots putting this new ideal above all else, in this way changing their core principles. In a way for me the Dragonhunters feel like the beginning of the White Mantle.

And here we are !

What else is an Order or an organization that has specific goals, typical ways of doing things, common principles and sometimes their own culture ?
White Mantle of course, as you said.
But also the Vigil. The Order of Whispers. The Durmand Priory. The Shining Blade. The Seraphims (can’t use this name for a spec then). The Charr Legions. The Peacemakers etc…
And also the Inquest and all bad guys’ organizations…
Same for GW1 : Sunspears (can you see how that name is constructed the same way as Dragonhunter is ?), Am Fah, Corsairs (could have been a cool spec name here again but whatever…) and a lot more

Does Elementalists, Warriors, Rangers, Mesmers, Guardians, or even Chronomancers correspond to that ?
No, clearly not.
But all of them have probably been members of those organizations.

Don’t mix story and background related things and playstyles together, they’re two different things.

And as I already said on another thread, specs are supposed to be swappable. Does this mean that you will change your background, your goals, your story etc everytime you only want to use a different fighting style ? This makes no sense

Your profession is called guardian. Where is the outrage about that? My Mesmer has guarded people, yaks and objectives, Thieves do that, Warriors. We are all Guardians at some point, even if don’t play that profession. Now call out already for a change of your class name, because everyone is essentially a guardian.

And did you know that there is a profession called Warrior? Well my Mesmer also is a Warrior, so are Thieves, Guardians, Elementalists and all others. Now complain about that name already too.

What if I choose with my Mesmer to protect the wildlife in WvW? Am I ranger then? What when I build siege blue prints for and siege weapons in WvW? How is there a special Engineer class, when basically all classes can be Engineers too?

Seriously, the reasoning of you Dragonhunter-name-haters bites itself in the kitten . You just don’t like it, but don’t pretend that this “We all hunt Dragons”-argument (Btw, I do not hunt dragons) is anything more than a try to rationalize your personal disliking.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

purecontact.1680:

rapthorne.7345:

Arbiter is a far, far better name. It fits the theme (Judge/Jury/Executioner of evil) and it’s not laughably generalist like “dragon hunter” (aka every single PC in Tyria)

Translation of Arbiter in french : Arbitre.
Yes, it’s a referee.

Well, thank god Arbiter is an English word, and while it somewhat means referee there is a lot more gravitas to it’s meaning then that picture you posted.