Profession Balance Goals Released - Guardian
I need to jump in cause I do not understand
It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one.
what buff is this? and why is FMW not unique in its execution and characteristics? And how is this a fact?
It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune.
How is that a fact? FMW provides a lot more uptime of Group Quickness. If you are talking about personal quickness thats a different story but each tool has its uses.
It’s a fact that it doesn’t bring a lot of other offensive buffs like fury and might.
28% fury uptime through FMW add in 30% through LoW+smiters Boon. this is not considering any boon duration. I think that is not not a lot … so where is that a fact?
A fact is that a guard has 6 useable shouts that can do certain things. Nothing becomes a fact just because you found three other peope that agree wit your opinion.
How is that a fact? FMW provides a lot more uptime of Group Quickness. If you are talking about personal quickness thats a different story but each tool has its uses.
Do we play the same game? Are you joking? I honestly can’t tell. :<
Hopefully Writ of Persistence will be moved to Zeal, the true symbols trait line, instead of the awkward place in Honor that it currently holds.
Feryl Grimsteel (Charr Engineer)
Tarnished Coast
Hopefully Writ of Persistence will be moved to Zeal, the true symbols trait line, instead of the awkward place in Honor that it currently holds.
Just merge it with symbolic avenger. The dream. :<
Hopefully Writ of Persistence will be moved to Zeal, the true symbols trait line, instead of the awkward place in Honor that it currently holds.
Just merge it with symbolic avenger. The dream. :<
There is a ton of crap that should me merged or made base line.
The fact its taken this long for them to even agknowledge that guardian traits need an update makes me want to slap someone.
But still no word on sword tweaks. GGs
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
There’s no word period. Give it a few days and see if we get some actual details.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Well, the trap daze stacking is pretty silly, wouldn’t be surprised to see it go. Though if A-net would nerf the damage on trueshot, people would just autoattack instead. Because it wouldn’t be worth being a sitting duck for damage that isn’t worth it, with such an animation for it aswell. When it comes to the passive knockback trait for the bow, I would rather it be placed on Bow 3 than random shots. Better for both skillful play and counterplay.
When it comes to the traps and their damage? I think the damage is fine. If they’ve nerf them too much in damage, then people would just waltz back to meditations. Think removing the daze is the best way to go about the traps.
After reading some of the replies in this thread some of you would be much happier on a druid with a passable outfit that looks like plate armor rather than trying to campaign for the guardian to be a cleric.
I need to jump in cause I do not understand
It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one.
what buff is this? and why is FMW not unique in its execution and characteristics? And how is this a fact?
It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune.
How is that a fact? FMW provides a lot more uptime of Group Quickness. If you are talking about personal quickness thats a different story but each tool has its uses.
It’s a fact that it doesn’t bring a lot of other offensive buffs like fury and might.
28% fury uptime through FMW add in 30% through LoW+smiters Boon. this is not considering any boon duration. I think that is not not a lot … so where is that a fact?
A fact is that a guard has 6 useable shouts that can do certain things. Nothing becomes a fact just because you found three other peope that agree wit your opinion.
Guardian provides more quickness than mesmer. Chronomancer provides A LOT more quickness than guardian. A dragonhunter does more personal damage than a chronomancer. Did you know Signet of Inspiration is a thing? That personal quickness on a chronomancer just became group quickness.
I mean, I’m still hopeful for sword tweaks, but I’m also doubtful considering in many classes they mentioned specific weapons they planned to modify. And to be fair Lazeris, the class symbol of the guardian is a healing ahnk on a shield so it’s a little weird that the class isn’t passable as a healer or healing tank.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
So if i want go pvp i should go Guardian? Is dragonhunter not going nerfed to the ground?
Honestly, Guardians will probably remain in the same spot as usual. I’m 100x more concerned about how powerful other classes will be.
Maybe the focus shouldn’t be about our minor trap nerfs but how much (or little) other classes are getting nerfed. I’m mainly concerned with Engi, Mesmers and Revs.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
we are really finished this time around, aint we?
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
Whoa, every single guardian in this thread is a freaking kitten.
Can’t you see the pattern?
Thieves and warriors, aka guardian’s breakfeast, are getting buffs.
All the other classes are getting some nerfs to their survability.
Imagine the state of the actual DH if ANet doesn’t nerf the burst a lil’ bit? It’s gonna dominate everything.
You guys don’t give a kitten about the big picture. You are comparing an imaginary nerfed guardian to the present meta.
On the PvE matter, it WILL hurt the class. But then again, who cares about PvE?
Whoa, every single guardian in this thread is a freaking kitten.
But then again, who cares about PvE?
Maybe not you, but alot of people. Everyone doesn’t have to share the same perspective, no?
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
@sasoriaka: Who cares about PVE? I sure do, since I’ve spent 100s of hours leveling and gearing my character. The real question is who cares about sPVP, when I can create a character and start playing with zero investment. Not to mention I really don’t want the entirety of the game to be balanced around a single game type that revolves around whether or not a class is good at point capture.
Whoa, every single guardian in this thread is a freaking kitten.
Can’t you see the pattern?
Thieves and warriors, aka guardian’s breakfeast, are getting buffs.
All the other classes are getting some nerfs to their survability.You guys don’t give a kitten about the big picture. You are comparing an imaginary nerfed guardian to the present meta.
The problem is, we already SAW how Arenanet “solves” the problems they struggle with:
- Aquatic combat unbalanced? No problem: remove water combat! No more water in PvP, WvW pools reduced to ponds and no new scuba phases for Guild Missions. No new water legendaries, also. Problem solved!
- Dungeons being too easy or the boss mechanics too repetitive and boring? People stacking and buffing like crazy? No problem: nerf the rewards from dungeons so hard that they become irrelevant! See: another problem solved, duengeons no longer bothers the players.
- People trolling and being salty at the WvW matchup forums? Nuked! No longer a problem.
- WvW population/servers too unbalanced, huge PPT disparity, massive blobs ganking you at your respawn? No problem: new shiny, huge, void maps with auto-upgrades with no tactic relevance and mediocre rewards! Now most of servers are equally dead; another great fix.
So I see the pattern: whenever Arenanet has a problem with the opinions or complaints from their customers, instead of trying to solve the problem, they erradicate the promblem.
….
All the other classes are getting some nerfs to their survability.
Imagine the state of the actual DH if ANet doesn’t nerf the burst a lil’ bit? It’s gonna dominate everything….
On the PvE matter, it WILL hurt the class. But then again, who cares about PvE?
No, not all. Not in the slightest. Scrapper may get survivability nerfs, but they’re already superbruisers. According to the post, reaper’s staying strong. Chrono loses some utility. Tempest may lose some survivability, but they’re getting weapon tweaks and offensive buffs to compensate. And PvP is nice, but most players spend most of their time in PvE. Given the release of raids, instanced PvE is also seeming to become a bigger focus for endgame challenge. PvE viability matters.
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
we are really finished this time around, aint we?
Depending on how hard ele, mes, rev, necro, and engi get nerfed, we might be getting the last nail in our collective coffins.
Whoa, every single guardian in this thread is a freaking kitten.
Can’t you see the pattern?
Thieves and warriors, aka guardian’s breakfeast, are getting buffs.
All the other classes are getting some nerfs to their survability.
Imagine the state of the actual DH if ANet doesn’t nerf the burst a lil’ bit? It’s gonna dominate everything.You guys don’t give a kitten about the big picture. You are comparing an imaginary nerfed guardian to the present meta.
On the PvE matter, it WILL hurt the class. But then again, who cares about PvE?
It’s actually quite a big deal. Guardians aren’t meta for raids even though DH puts out the highest dps in the class. If the dps from the elite spec gets nerfed because of pvp, then guardian falls even farther away from the raid meta. I can see how this could be infuriating for someone who doesn’t even pvp.
we are really finished this time around, aint we?
Depending on how hard ele, mes, rev, necro, and engi get nerfed, we might be getting the last nail in our collective coffins.
the only nerf so far is that ele will be less stronger against necros, scrappers seams a bit fair balance change, most changes will be damage buffes, guardian will have what we dont use a bit stronger, stability will still work badly, (still none will care), and easy traps will get hitted, bow migh get a small nerf to.
About ravenant they migh not touch on what is very strong on that class in expectation people use it, migh migh even buff more the class, but i hope im wrong..
Guardians are balanced they are easilly killed outside medi trapper spam.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Whoa, every single guardian in this thread is a freaking kitten.
Can’t you see the pattern?
Thieves and warriors, aka guardian’s breakfeast, are getting buffs.
All the other classes are getting some nerfs to their survability.You guys don’t give a kitten about the big picture. You are comparing an imaginary nerfed guardian to the present meta.
The problem is, we already SAW how Arenanet “solves” the problems they struggle with:
- Aquatic combat unbalanced? No problem: remove water combat! No more water in PvP, WvW pools reduced to ponds and no new scuba phases for Guild Missions. No new water legendaries, also. Problem solved!
- Dungeons being too easy or the boss mechanics too repetitive and boring? People stacking and buffing like crazy? No problem: nerf the rewards from dungeons so hard that they become irrelevant! See: another problem solved, duengeons no longer bothers the players.
- People trolling and being salty at the WvW matchup forums? Nuked! No longer a problem.
- WvW population/servers too unbalanced, huge PPT disparity, massive blobs ganking you at your respawn? No problem: new shiny, huge, void maps with auto-upgrades with no tactic relevance and mediocre rewards! Now most of servers are equally dead; another great fix.
So I see the pattern: whenever Arenanet has a problem with the opinions or complaints from their customers, instead of trying to solve the problem, they erradicate the promblem.
After reading this I became pretty depressed with how accurate it is :S
Actually, i think that’s a pretty reasonable way to handle some of those things. They have limited resources and if some of their ideas aren’t working, there is no rule saying they have to continually waste time on them. Of course, the author of that post has a biased way of expressing it, but a more objective expression, someone could actually see those are normal behaviours.
^ Then accept that some traits/skills from the Guardian/DH are just there to became a fossil. Spiritual Weapons and signets are just a joke and never worked as intended so let Arenanet just pass page and nuke them all. I’m fine about the idea; also, let Druids and Tempest to replace the bunker/support role Guardians had in the past.
Instead of nerfing some useful assets (traps, longbow) that CLEARLY didn’t make a dent in the most demanding departments in the game (competitive PvP, raids) they should work in making the sword, hammer and shield into something remotely usable.
Problem with guardian is that in the start it was class that provided boons and heals to party or anyone while giving decent dmg. Then they changed the story and guardian was class that gives aegis to party and everyone. And now in HoT, well we are not giving anything with DH to anyone.
Revenant have better boon support, druid have better heal support, scrapper have better boon support and heals.
Now I don’t know what Guardian class is supposed to do anymore. We are not needed in every game mode there is (wvw is dead if you think we can support there).
Lets talk about conditions, guardian have only 1. We have 1 condition weapon. = Lame
So how to fix guardian. Basically give them passive boons like other classes, decrease CD of virtues drastically – to 12/20/20 sec , revamp traits completely, give spirit weapon ability to give boons to everyone, fix sword(autoattack, no rooting, ground target teleport), hammer (all autoattacks casting 1/2 sec, MB increase dmg and range to 900, remove 3,4 and give better options, no rooting to 5 and give it better symbol – regen or water), LB needs nerfing, Mace needs to be condition based (or scepter-#2 needs to be symbol),…
I do find it funny that if you look closely at the counter balancing for many of the Guardian’s skills (like cooldown, cast time, area of effect, etc) the developers truly thought that these abilities (Signet of Mercy, Sanctuary, etc) were going to be overpowered
Sword rework plz \o/
I need to jump in cause I do not understand
It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one.
what buff is this? and why is FMW not unique in its execution and characteristics? And how is this a fact?
It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune.
How is that a fact? FMW provides a lot more uptime of Group Quickness. If you are talking about personal quickness thats a different story but each tool has its uses.
Guardian provides more quickness than mesmer. Chronomancer provides A LOT more quickness than guardian. A dragonhunter does more personal damage than a chronomancer. Did you know Signet of Inspiration is a thing? That personal quickness on a chronomancer just became group quickness.
oh man I forgot about the signet. okay so I see the mesmer would stack as much quickness on him (probably with seize the moment, well and timewarp all at once?) and then spread it? I guess with boon duration maxed that could provide a 60% uptime of quickness if you build for it.
that is impressive… not to say its OP
we are really finished this time around, aint we?
Depending on how hard ele, mes, rev, necro, and engi get nerfed, we might be getting the last nail in our collective coffins.
or we come out on top … but well.
^ Then accept that some traits/skills from the Guardian/DH are just there to became a fossil. Spiritual Weapons and signets are just a joke and never worked as intended so let Arenanet just pass page and nuke them all. I’m fine about the idea; also, let Druids and Tempest to replace the bunker/support role Guardians had in the past.
Instead of nerfing some useful assets (traps, longbow) that CLEARLY didn’t make a dent in the most demanding departments in the game (competitive PvP, raids) they should work in making the sword, hammer and shield into something remotely usable.
I do accept it. It’s worked for 3 years … You don’t know if Anet isn’t going to work on making other things ‘remotely usable’.
we are really finished this time around, aint we?
Depending on how hard ele, mes, rev, necro, and engi get nerfed, we might be getting the last nail in our collective coffins.
or we come out on top … but well.
Well, ele and mes seem to be going down for the count. Necro actually getting a buff to their boon corruption which is anathema to a guardian.
we are really finished this time around, aint we?
Depending on how hard ele, mes, rev, necro, and engi get nerfed, we might be getting the last nail in our collective coffins.
or we come out on top … but well.
Well, ele and mes seem to be going down for the count. Necro actually getting a buff to their boon corruption which is anathema to a guardian.
Thief is going up to, the venom share is good and Basilisk is unblockable which means Aegis is even more useless in PvP, also, S/P might become a thing…
After reading this I became pretty depressed with how accurate it is :S
Coming back to the “pattern” theme, they already have announced their way to “fix” the problem of the excessive sustain in the meta:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-to-PvP-Runes-Sigils-Amulets
Essentially they will remove from PvP those amulets:
Soldier’s
Settler’s
Celestial
Sentinel
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things.
Not shocked at all, taking in consideration that they did release the Revenant without water skills in 3/5 of their legeds.
Arenanet has an awesome combat system, but they are progressively, relentlessly turning their chess game it into a checkers game. Call me biased, but the neutering system of traits they did adopted in June wasn’t to make the things more coherent or easy to handle for the players, but just to make things easier to control or remove from the game for Arenanet.
The have literaly dozens of amulets just in PvP, but they are unable to make them relevant outside 4-5. The same with dozens of traits, some ENTIRE trait lines and whole skills. Guardian/DH will stay irrelevant at least until summer…
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..
Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?
Too early to say anything because we don’t know how much they’re nerfing everything else
0 counterplay
Too early to say anything because we don’t know how much they’re nerfing everything else
And what is going to get buffed and over buffed as results of some of those nerfs.
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..
Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?
It’s one thing to remove the tanky sets that were released later in the games life (shoutouts to the few days minstrels made it in pvp even though they pulled nomads), but if I’m not mistaken soldier’s has existed since launch. Maybe I’m just a stick in the mud, but if they can’t balance around the stat combinations that existed on release maybe they should re-think some classes’ durability?
Don’t cry, Signet of Mercy. Others may forget you, but I will always remember.
Our deficiencies may be overcome by practice and self-discipline.
There is lots of things they could do but if you think about it, simply removing tanky amulets is probably the easiest and maintains familiarity.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
And to be honest, the paladin amulet is really soldier’s with a bunch of precision. I’m sure builds that used it would migrate with little effort.
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..
Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?
The problem is not the stats in the amulet, but the balance in the skills and traits of each classes. But fixing that demands time, testing and the use of -several- brains.
Removing the “problematic” amulets from PvP could provide a temporal sense of success, but it’s a mirage: the problem of balance still will exist (as example: in wvw roaming).
So, after that remove, you still will have 0 chances against a celestial Tempest or Chronomancer using your Guardian/DH while roaming, due those stat combination will still exist, but the issue will NEVER be fixed because at the eyes of Arenanet “celestial amulet was deleted, case closed”.
As I said before, this kind of mentality of deleting things instead of trying to rebalance them is a mistake; thanks to water combat almost entirely banished from PvP and WvW they felt that releasing the Revenant with most of their legends with five nice underwater grey boxes instead of skills was acceptable. And isn’t; is like saying:
-Arenanet: “Hey, we heard that your elite skills are OP, so we figured out a solution”.
-Random player: “So you will fix it, perhaps rebalance it”.
-Arenanet: "No, that was a headache; instead we will disable the “0” in your keyboard each time you chose to run that class".
I need to jump in cause I do not understand
It’s a fact that guardian got the unique defensive buff instead of an offensive one.
what buff is this? and why is FMW not unique in its execution and characteristics? And how is this a fact?
It’s a fact FMW pales in comparison with chronomancer quickness even if we disregard the extremely broken chronomancer rune.
How is that a fact? FMW provides a lot more uptime of Group Quickness. If you are talking about personal quickness thats a different story but each tool has its uses.
It’s a fact that it doesn’t bring a lot of other offensive buffs like fury and might.
28% fury uptime through FMW add in 30% through LoW+smiters Boon. this is not considering any boon duration. I think that is not not a lot … so where is that a fact?
A fact is that a guard has 6 useable shouts that can do certain things. Nothing becomes a fact just because you found three other peope that agree wit your opinion.
The buff I’m talking about is strength in numbers. Note that Warrior, ranger and rev have offensive versions, rather than defensive. And FMW is not providing unique buffs as other classes can provide either more quickness or fury.
The FMW comment just shows you know nothing about chronomancer. Right now they have literally 100% quickness upkeep. Even with alacrity nerf and possible chronomancer rune nerf they would have more upkeep + alacrity.
LoW + smiter’s boon requires you to trait into valor, which in itself is yet another dps loss. Count in that a rev literally has 100% passive upkeep while doing more dmg/CC/etc why exactly would you go for a guardian?
I will agree that I was overdramatic and angry that night, but it IS true that guardian really has nothing to offer to a PvE set up atm that isn’t better filled by a different class. Which is exactly why there are similar comments popping up about it and the class isn’t welcome in most raid parties. Looking at the awesome preview they gave us it won’t be fixed either.
(edited by cranos.5913)
smite condition, one of the strongest skills in game getting a buff.
okay.
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
EG.secret.OG.NAVI.sorrychief
Give something unique on mace besides the 250 healling power on block, that will make guardian accepted on a team? ok..? X)
You see? The way Arenanet “solves” problems of balance isn’t trying to figure a way to keep some pairity between classes or ofering alternative viable builds for each class; but instead REMOVING things..
Funny you keep trying to make this sound like a bad thing. It doesn’t make sense to you that if they want less sustain, they remove items that give you lots of sustain?
The problem is not the stats in the amulet, but the balance in the skills and traits of each classes.
It’s interesting when players decide what problem Anet was trying to fix, then turn around and complain when they think Anet solved that player-defined problem wrong.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.
Equally, celestial amulet in PvP was the focus of the hate of large amounts of forum warriors, despite this amulet is only used by 2-3 classes in the current PvP meta. More laughlable even is the remove of the soldier amulet, one which was barely used at all by any class before the Chronomancer bunker did arise.
So, instead of tweaking the skills and traits of those classes to prevent the excess of sustain or damage in combination with celestial/soldier amulets, they remove those stat combos from PvP. Well, that will not prevent the unbalances in WvW (not like that this dead part of the game bothers Arenanet, but I think that you understand what I’m saying).
Arenanet SHOULD NOT base their balance decissions on the forums; they have a Pro League with 80 players and is very easy to see which classes and builds are underused and therefore which balance fixes must be done.
I must remark that none of the announced changes will affect me personally. I don’t play any class using celestial amulet (I use marauder with DH and Berserker, and carrion with Herald and Reaper). Smite Condition will not replace Contemplation of Purity in my skill bar despite the SC buff due SC isn’t a breakstun and breakstuns matters more in PvP than being able to remove conditions more often. So I’m not biased about the changes (equally, I don’ty care about the nerfs on the Rev’s sword and hammer, because mace and axe are the main sorces of damage from the character).
So, keep defending the clueless of Arenanet “balancing team”; we already known that raids are runned by less of the 1% of the players, and WvW is in critical condition in most of the servers, dungeons are dead and fractals are going in the same way. The game is in a WAY WORSE state than a year ago, but for some reason some people keep excusing Arenanet’s mistakes and blaming other players about the problems of the game.
I think that I’m done about the subject. I almost entirely stopped to play WvW two months ago, and PvP is the only thing that keeps me in the game, and the mismanagement of this beautiful game is making me sad.
^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.
Yeah, no. It’s clear why you don’t understand how balancing works. Assuming the problem Anet wants to solve and why they are trying to solve it doesn’t get you very far.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.
Yeah, no. It’s clear why you don’t understand how balancing works. Assuming the problem Anet wants to solve and why they are trying to solve it doesn’t get you very far.
And somehow you do?
Your replies in this thread has been everything is just fine and since you can’t form a coherent thought you go back and edit your post minutes after making them.
Since you’re so presumptuous, please enlighten everyone on how balance works and show us your mighty insight of how things will go.
^ Obviously traps weren’t a problem in any department of the game, but they will be nerfed due a vocal and large amount of players in the forums seems unable to counter them in PvP.
Yeah, no. It’s clear why you don’t understand how balancing works. Assuming the problem Anet wants to solve and why they are trying to solve it doesn’t get you very far.
And somehow you do?
Here is my secret; I read. Anet already told us why they are balancing these things. That and I don’t assume Anet is lying to me. I save my conspiracy theory powers for good, not evil.
(edited by Obtena.7952)