Guild Wars 2

I like the proposed changes. I think it would fit much better into the existing traits and skill types that guardian has today, maybe them fit the guardian overall (and probablly inherently more useful as they will be affected by those traits).

I do like the idea of tomes, but if it came back in a future spec where tomes was a pretty specific thing with traits affecting them – it would be much better than today’s implimentation.

No. How about you leave tomes in as elites, and give us more tomes as part of specialization stuff later? Renewed Focus is useful but oh so boring. I appear to be in the minority here since I usually swap between both tomes depending on whether I think the party is gonna die or needs a hand with aoe cc/quickness.

Super disappointing that you’re thinking of replacing them :\

I really loved the idea of tomes and the execution of them were great, however. The impact of tomes was just extremely lackluster.

I really wouldn’t want to gain signets in place of them since the tomes are fairly iconic to the Guardian and we’d be no different from warriors.

ParagonPaladin.7516:

No. How about you leave tomes in as elites, and give us more tomes as part of specialization stuff later? Renewed Focus is useful but oh so boring. I appear to be in the minority here since I usually swap between both tomes depending on whether I think the party is gonna die or needs a hand with aoe cc/quickness.

Super disappointing that you’re thinking of replacing them :\

Whats the point of keeping the tomes if both skills that make you want to use the tomes are staying as independent skills without a 1 second precast?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEAS dont turn the book into a signet this would be such a massive nerf of the heal book. i actually use this in high lvl pvp and in dungeons and even used it against jebros team in the academy gaming a cupple of weeks back helping my team win the match 2-0
my build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW5elsApfn1CxVI0ENRCRldRkDBI2fwJkCXFAA-TJBHwALLDA4JA0b/hBXEAA

my advice is this if you want to improve them maybe go the summon weapon rout. have it so you summon the book and it follows you. you can tab in and out of the skills using the summon weapon command button. this would let you be able to switch to your main skills in times of need then switch back but giving the down side that the book could be destroyed. have it so it can be effected by summon weapon traits.

maybe having it so the books give boons around them eg heal book gives regen and when traited stability and dps book gives might and and stability when traited

again if you have any questions feel free to ask me in game if you have an arena ill even show you what the book can be done when played right (tank up to 3-4 players for 30s)

Tome of Wrath at least gave you Retaliation with burning spam. I haven’t touched it in a long time because Radiant Retaliation has been broken… wink wink

Crise.9401:

I like the tomes as a mechanic, however, I also fully support the idea of turning them into signets and bringing tomes back as a separate fleshed out elite specialization at a later date.

This is a win win, regardless of whether you like tomes as they are or not, because as an elite spec tomes can be made into something more than a gimmick while vanilla Guardians can get two powerful skills out of to replace their gimmicky versions in the mean time.

This is how I feel as well. I love the tome skills for how they feel, and I’d consider losing them in their current states as a price I’d be quite willing to pay to have them become a focus of a future elite specialisation.

Vizardlorde.8243:

ParagonPaladin.7516:

No. How about you leave tomes in as elites, and give us more tomes as part of specialization stuff later? Renewed Focus is useful but oh so boring. I appear to be in the minority here since I usually swap between both tomes depending on whether I think the party is gonna die or needs a hand with aoe cc/quickness.

Super disappointing that you’re thinking of replacing them :\

Whats the point of keeping the tomes if both skills that make you want to use the tomes are staying as independent skills without a 1 second precast?

I use all of the skills in the books, I mean- prioritize based on the situation. I’m not saying that they’re currently perfect, a balance to them would be very welcome.

Its just, I don’t want my favorite part of the profession to be taken out and set on a shelf for 3+ years before the expansion or feature pack containing the next set of elite specializations. We don’t even have a release date for THIS set of specs!

I’m in favor of these changes, if only so that my guardian can be the book wielding arcanist/scholar he was meant to be.

Also, at least when you get to the tome elite spec, get someone to release a better book focus. Maybe one that opens up in your palm when wielded, instead of affixed to a coat hanger and swung around like a bludgeon.

Action Sloth.2603:

I’m in favor of these changes, if only so that my guardian can be the book wielding arcanist/scholar he was meant to be.

Also, at least when you get to the tome elite spec, get someone to release a better book focus. Maybe one that opens up in your palm when wielded, instead of affixed to a coat hanger and swung around like a bludgeon.

But I like smacking people to death with a giant phone book!

i still like the summon weapon idea over the signet this would kill me to see the book go it would be and end to my bunker guard and my fractal piller guard

Mr Vivi Ornitier.4271:

i still like the summon weapon idea over the signet this would kill me to see the book go it would be and end to my bunker guard and my fractal piller guard

depending on the numbers the signet option might be better for your bunker guard as long as you are not poisoned if its combined with ABsolute precision. giving you a rough equivalent of healing signet without taking your shelter away and also having the Oh kitten factored in.
As for your fractal build idk what it does but I’m sure that running hammer with writ of persistence will carry any group through the roughest fractals.

turn the books into summon weapons you can toggle on and off

Tome of Courage – Summon an ancient tome that will follow your every command
(when summoned tome of courage on the skills bar turns into holy chapter)

Holy Chapter- activate to read powerful healing spells
(press switch weapon to go back to your main skills putting holy chapter on a short cool down till you can return to casting spells)

Tome Of Wrath Summon an ancient tome that will follow your every command
(when summoned Tome Of Wrath on the skills bar turns into last rights)

Last Rights – activate to read powerful offensive spells
(press switch weapon to go back to your main skills putting last rights on a short cool down till you can return to casting spells)

book can be killed by players giving counter play “do i go for the guard or do i kill the book first”

this way the books will have all the same skills but open them up to more tactical play eg dropping the book to ress someone or stomp then get right back to healing

its not just the heal that makes this book amazing the daze from Pacifism “Pacify foes, dazing them for three seconds.” 1200 radius is a amazing way to calm the battle field giving you enough time to heal up your allys or to cast your full heal also with my build i can give a power mancer over 1 min of protection with good skill rotation this turns a bunker guard into the true supporter. sorry how could i forget healing your allys at 1200 range

Mr Vivi Ornitier.4271:

its not just the heal that makes this book amazing the daze from Pacifism “Pacify foes, dazing them for three seconds.” 1200 radius is a amazing way to calm the battle field giving you enough time to heal up your allys or to cast your full heal also with my build i can give a power mancer over 1 min of protection with good skill rotation this turns a bunker guard into the true supporter

Ah then I see your point in wanting to keep courage. I myself dont play bunker so the changes seem fine to me as an offensively oriented guard. If only there was some way to reach a compromise making the quickness and fury from tome of wrath more accessible without killing your play style it’d be great.

also their isnt a summon weapon elite yet this would fit perfectly into their traits decrease cool down, summon weapons burn (could do a cool thing where the book burns if you touch it giving it some defense) and have them last longer and give stabil

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Jon

Yes please!

Vizardlorde.8243:

Mr Vivi Ornitier.4271:

its not just the heal that makes this book amazing the daze from Pacifism “Pacify foes, dazing them for three seconds.” 1200 radius is a amazing way to calm the battle field giving you enough time to heal up your allys or to cast your full heal also with my build i can give a power mancer over 1 min of protection with good skill rotation this turns a bunker guard into the true supporter

Ah then I see your point in wanting to keep courage. I myself dont play bunker so the changes seem fine to me as an offensively oriented guard. If only there was some way to reach a compromise making the quickness and fury from tome of wrath more accessible without killing your play style it’d be great.

you could! when you summon the tome of wrath if you have it traited have it so it procs quickness and fury on books death or at random time intervals your you could use the skill yourself drop the book and fight as normal till your need the book again

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Jon

These seem far too focused of an effect and insignificant to be considered elite skills.

Even “Save Yourselves” feels more epic than either of these suggestions.

Assuming these are gonna be elite skills…..

The Shout seems completely underwhelming and could probably grant some stability as well as the Fury/Quickness probably make it a shorter cooldown as well. 60-75 seconds?

The Signet seems pretty weak as well, why not just make it a constant passive heal instead of a PBAoE every 10 seconds. The active is nice and deserving of a fairly long cooldown, but the passive is garbage depending on how big the heal is. What if it granted allies three random boons once every 10 seconds instead?

ParagonPaladin.7516:

No. How about you leave tomes in as elites, and give us more tomes as part of specialization stuff later? Renewed Focus is useful but oh so boring. I appear to be in the minority here since I usually swap between both tomes depending on whether I think the party is gonna die or needs a hand with aoe cc/quickness.

Super disappointing that you’re thinking of replacing them :\

Yep agreed, in fact I had the thought why not make the elite spec abilities all tomes, similar to the engi kits. Traps are not even ground targeted and in all probability not many will use them as a result.

I’m all for revamping the Tomes into a Consecration or Spirit Weapon instead of Signets/Shouts. If the game is being rebalanced to have more consistency across the board, then these two skills being included in existing skill categories is pretty sound.

I kind of get where other people are coming from in being attached with the Tomes. But I personally never liked the Tomes to begin with.

i think a good balance pass over them into a summon weapon would be best as people have stated before. these signet/shout change feel very under powered. these books are not just good because of their main skill 5 in fact sometimes i wont even use it and instead will focus on using all the other skills on the book. removing something completely that many have enjoyed and made builds for and saying you might get it back in maybe 3 years would upset me deeply

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

[…]
Thoughts? Comments?

I was hoping Courage got made into a Staff of Courage spirit weapon that heals allies, with the corresponding new spirit staff skin, and Light of Deliverance being its active skill.

• Staff of Courage: Spirit Weapon. Summon a staff that heals and grant protection and regeneration to allies. *
  • Active skill: Light of Deliverance. Fully heal up to five nearby allies.

As for Wrath, I was hoping making it a Consecration.

• Domain of Wrath: Consecration. Create a 240 unit crystal Field that lasts 10s seconds and pulses every second. Allies within it get quickness (1s per pulse) and fury (3s per pulse). Enemies get torment (1 stack 2s per pulse) every second.

Crystal field. New type of field related to Earth, Chaos, Light and ‘shatter’ themes.

• Projectile: Bleeds. (3 stacks 5 seconds)
• Whirl: Bleeding bolts. (3 stacks 5 seconds)
• Leap: Crystal Armor. Attacks have a chance to cause crippling, and attackers have a chance to get torment.
• Blast: Aoe Cripple (3 seconds)

The signet and shout also works, anyways. But we are still missing one elite spirit weapon, one elite consecration and the consecration healing skill, though.

Eventually each skill set of each profession should be completed.

As for bringing back tomes, I’d make them either kits or conjures for another specialization. With, of course, also a full set. We can’t have incomplete skills sets around here. Oh, no we can’t.

All skill sets must be completed! Healing, utilities and elite! All of them!

I love the flavor of the tomes, so bringing them back into a developed elite spec sounds awesome!

I know they are certainly not best in slot as a utility, but I still used them in PVE because I just really enjoyed the concept and the feeling of unlocking extra power.

Maybe tomes will be back with a guardian/engi elite spec?

While you’re at it – please buff signets

With trait – much the same as ele; keep passive effect whilst on CD
- maybe increase passive bonus to 50% rather then 20% as to further increase them
- the factor of retaliation on signet use is a bonus to it as they need some sort of buff

Much appreciated
-Phyrak

hear is the deal come see what you can use the heal book for im entering again into the EU Academy Gaming PVP tournament on Monday around 8pm gmt with my guard your all more than welcome to come watch normaly live streamed on

http://www.twitch.tv/brunners90/

ill be playing on my Guard Solaced

Delusionary.3795:

I love the flavor of the tomes, so bringing them back into a developed elite spec sounds awesome!

I know they are certainly not best in slot as a utility, but I still used them in PVE because I just really enjoyed the concept and the feeling of unlocking extra power.

I realise its too late but why didn’t they have the idea to use it as the basis for THIS elite spec.

I’m leaning toward Courage not being a passive signet. As others have mentioned, it seems that it will either step on Battle Presence, or make a combo with it very powerful.

A shout would be better (and works with the rest of the shout line), but it would mean Wrath needs to be something else. A consecration is a reasonable alternative.

Both of these skills also had a heavy control element, with their massive range 3s disables. (Daze for Courage, Knockdown for Wrath, iirc) Is there any chance of those elements being carried over into the new skill? 1s AoE daze when Signet of Courage completes its channel, for example?

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Jon

Hello Jon,

I currently run a Burn Build Guard in pvp n while most of the tome skills I did not use much I did rely on the #1 skill on wrath to clear a cap point. It was my most useful skill when attacking a point sometimes single handedly clearing 2-3 enemy players who were “brave enough” to stay on point defending.

What I would like to see is instead of fury give it a 1s burn for every hit on enemy for x duration. This with quickness will allow it to compete with other elites and keep the burn abilities tome of wrath has.

Just my 2 cents.

i exclusively use tome of courage, the sole purpose is the skill that fully heal 5 allies around me. it very useful in dungeon/fractals and in pvp. as a signet passive aoe heal sounds good but hopefully it is noticeable. what my biggest concern is how long will it take to activate that signet to fully heal. right now i say its bit slower for elite skill and its easily to get interrupted if i don’t use stand on your ground before it. can you cut down on casting time for that skill, it will than feel like an elite skill.

also off topic but i think guardian also need a good reviving skill, similar to how elite banner of warrior revives.

I love the concept of Tomes and would love to see them return with a more useful execution.

My shout guardian build really loves the idea of Feel My Wrath, as well as Healing Breeze becoming a shout too.

Great idea. Don’t call it “Feel my Wrath” though. The boons aimed at allies and that shout is at the enemy. Id also complain about Signet of Courage having nothing to do with virtue of courage but meh it doesn’t matter

P.S. why not have a tome come back as a cantrip. That way we can hang out with the tornado eles and complain about how nobody takes us seriously.

I use the Tome of Wrath a lot in WvW, it’s a mini arrow cart
Aside from that, there’s not much a guardian can do from the wall when defending. Maybe the new bow spec changes that a little.

Silhouette.5631:

Great idea. Don’t call it “Feel my Wrath” though. The boons aimed at allies and that shout is at the enemy. Id also complain about Signet of Courage having nothing to do with virtue of courage but meh it doesn’t matter

P.S. why not have a tome come back as a cantrip. That way we can hang out with the tornado eles and complain about how nobody takes us seriously.

I guess that is sort of a good point. Maybe something like “Feel our wrath” or “Show them our Wrath!”

Sort of weird but either way, it is a bit weird to be seemingly yelling at your buddies.

I think this is a good idea. The tomes are quite underused as they are; if I don’t run Renewed Focus, it’s because I’m messing around with my Norn Elites.

In keeping the most used abilities of the tomes in the new skills, what we lose out on is mostly the look and feel.

However, since the look and feel of tomes is quite unique – not a lot of skills are as flashy as they are – I think you need to make a the idea of bringing back tomes in an Elite Specialization a definite plan if you make this change, not just “hope”.

It may make it easier to wait for the return of those skills if we know they will come back as a full set of Healing, Utility and Elite skills.

ronpierce.2760:

He said they will likely come back in the future. If I had to guess, as kits or Conjures.

Personally, I dislike the way Conjure and Tomes currently work: both charges AND timer on a relatively long cooldown? And conjures are gone if you change weapons?

If they are made into an Elite Specialization, I would certainly like to see them become like Kits; a personal item you can swap out at will, since I don’t think anyone but the Guardian should handle the ancient tomes of sacred magical knowledge. Maybe equipping the Elite Specialization could disable your second weapon set to compensate the extra versatility; that, or Engineer could get an Elite that grants him a second set of weapons so it’s fair.

I’ll miss the idea of tomes, they were cool. But they are lacking, this change sounds like they’ll be much more useful. Tome of Wrath changes sound like a nice offensive option, Tome of Courage sounds like a niche defensive/support option. Renewed Focus of course is the awesome in betweener. So yeah, thumbs up for the idea Mr. Peters.

I do hope to see Tomes come back at some point. Maybe if ya’ll add more specializations you’ll add “kits” or “conjures” to guardian and bring back the tomes with a bit more oomf and practicality.

Would be a change that I would surely love on my guardian…I run as a tank/support (don’t laugh xD), but the only good elite for me is the meditation…for surviving and spamming some support with the virtue recharge.
The tome courage is much more support, but it’s too slow…by the time i take it out and heal people…they’re generally dead…so i would totally love the new sigil and ofc the new shout when i need more dps for my team (running a shout build, so it would be perfect xD)

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Jon

Tomes are awesome concept and should be preserved in some form in the future. They really bring out the castery side of guardians and I think it should be embodied through a whole new spec.

1. pull the tomes from elite slot
2. drop them into utilities for a tome based specialization
3. functionality similar to kits
4. accordingly tone down the effects of skills

It makes sense in my mind at least You already have two in place and only need to come up with four more for a full spec.

These are some really solid ideas. I would really miss the awesome aesthetics of the moves though. I know that a later specialization could add them back as suggested which would undoubtedly alleviate this complaint, but if there is any way to keep the book as part of the animation until that spec releases I would appreciate it.

I welcome this change

They don’t want to create more skill categories because it seems like they want to create runes that affect skill types across professions like trooper/trapper runes, the more different skill types the more difficult this will be.

I have to voice AGAINST the change unfortunately.

I do not use tomes, but when I do I do not use tomes for the proposed changes they have.

Currently tome mechanics favor the usage of spamming 1 for both tomes.

Tome of Courage you were provided with a significant group heal that could be layered with multiple guardians with high effects in WvW and moderate effect in sPvP. Open world boss PvE it was moderate to low usage.

The remaining skills on the Tome transition were forgettable except for that enticing AoE “full” heal, but it took some setup to use without getting interrupted (risk vs reward).

The blind/protection/condition removal/regen boon were less noticeable in effect and often used at the expense of casting the spamable heal or full heal. The AoE daze did have some clutch usage, and was a welcome tool set on the tome.

By changing the tome of courage into a signet we lose a daze and a controlled spamable heal to fight against spamable attacks by opposing groups.

Tome of Wrath also so its primary use by spamming 1 and raining direct damage and condition damage on an opposing group. The haste and AoE knock down were flashy and could be clutch, but at the end of the day, being able to control an area with consistent damage on a point was the reason to take the tome if any.

The weakness/cripple/might/swiftness are laughable and ignored much as the utility effects on tome of courage were.

So changing Tome of Wrath into a shout we lose the ability to put damage pressure on a point and aoe control via knock down.

The two bolded lines saying what we lose are the only reason, I feel anyone takes the tomes and they were useful, but not useful enough reasons when paired against the losses in effect you had from losing your weapon set and utility skills for having tomes active.

TLDR:
I think a buff to tomes with maintaining the primary heal/damage ability of the tomes would help keep them unique enough and clutch enough in a fight would be more beneficial than watering down the skills to a shout and signet.

Shorter cooldowns? Longer durations? Higher damage/heal numbers? I am not in favor of taking them away, even though I don’t use them, I see the potential and we would lose that potential if they are removed and changed.

I would definitely love an elite spec utilizing tomes!

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Jon

Why not leave the existing tomes and add the new skills as additional options? You can always revisit tomes later on if you feel they are underplayed.

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks,

Jon

the problem i see with this is why would you use these over Renewed Focus?

lets work out why people use current elites skills

renewed focus this one is easy its a invon and it recharges your vertues its good its meta

now the heal book i use the heal book because of the 3s daze, the full heal, the small ranged targeted heal, the protection and the fact i get stability

dps book massive knockback, great skill 1 damage for burn guards, retaliation for condi guard again stability

these are the problems i see with signets and shouts replaceiing book

“Signet of Courage” as a signet no daze, no ranged heal, no stability

“Feel My Wrath” as a shout no damage, no knock back, no stability

i would say keep the books so they have 5 different skills just buff them/change them and change how it works. i still like the idea of having the books as summon weapons like the shields so they can be buffed by the same traits.

maybe give tome of wrath a nice aoe fire field it can leave on the ground and Smiter’s Boon should give might and fury not might and swiftness

the heal books pretty good but maybe ever let us ress people with it out or as i suggested have it so you can toggle the books on or off eg

the book will last for 30s you use it for 5s but need to drop it to ress which puts the books commands on cool down for 5s which is enough time for you to ress leaving you with 20s left of your book which you can pick back up again (read my early comment on how this would actually work sort of like a tool kit/spirite weapon )

I’m really excited about these changes. They are some great options, since I never liked using Tomes.

I think this is a good change.

Tomes are a great idea, but they need a rework in HOW they work. Something like an Engineer’s kits or an Elementalists’s summons (without the spare on the ground) would be much better for them.

I hope to see them make a return some day, but for now they should be replaced with something more workable.

(And when you bring them back, consider them for Elementalists, too.)