Guild Wars 2

4) BOUNTIFUL INTERRUPTION IS AWESOME
If you happen to have some spare points in the Chaos line, PLEASE give Bountiful Interruption a shot.

Of all the interrupt-traits, Bountiful is the most beneficial to any build as long as you have the proper weapon: Focus or Greatsword. In group fights, this trait all-too-easily can net you 15 stacks of might (and 3 random boons) in one swoop, which benefits both power AND condition builds, as well as support builds if you tend to go that route.

After playing a lockdown build for a bit.. you’ll come to find Bountiful as valuable as traits like Mender’s Purity, weapon cooldown traits, and I’d dare go so far as to say nearly on Deceptive Evasion’s level of value.[

3) AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PLAYSTYLE
Shatter Mesmer, Phantasm Mesmer, Condition Mesmer… These are the current main types of Mesmer.

Sure there’s different vatiants: Phantasmal Boons and the Chaos Maestro are support builds, but they still fight with a Phantasm playstyle. Once you grab Deceptive Evasion, you’re all set for a shatter build.. These playstyles, while varied, all follow similar rules the same as any other fighting style would. Shatter Mesmers often take sword to set up their shatters. Phantasm Mesmers often grab greatsword and pistol for high-damage phantasms.. If you play a phantasm build, you pretty much know the ropes of any other phantasm build you play, and the same goes for shattering.

But Lockdown builds tow the line between shatter and phantasm. They tend to use both for damage, but also can make excellent use of Halting Strike for a third additional damage source. Either way, the focus isn’t on shattering or on maintaining phantasms: its on keeping the opponent(s) unable to fight back while you shatter, while phantasms abuse, and while your opponents capitalize. In this capacity, Lockdown Mesmer make good “leader-type” builds in small groups: You call a target, and keep them shut down while everyone wails on them.

But this IS a different playstyle, and thus it requires building new rotations and new reflexes to be effective. You have to have an understanding of your opponent’s abilities and be able to time interrupts to be effective. It hurts at first, its different and unfamiliar and hard, but it becomes so worthwhile.

2) THEY NEVER RARELY SEE IT COMING
Oh the sweet glorious rage… It’s delectable.

Offhand sword(and/or Pistol) and Mantra of Distraction come together in a sinister marriage that make classes like Necromancers wet themselves with frustration. Most people expect CC to come from Warriors, or even Thieves, but Mesmer lockdown is subtle and unexpected. The preconceived notion of Mesmers being only “PU, Shatter, or Phantasm” works in a lockdown Mesmer’s favor as the enemy often doesn’t know what exactly is going on when their heals are instantly interrupted without any animations or warning.

Even before the Confounding Suggestions bug, CS could produce some awesome results. Dropping Chaos Storm on a point usually meant opponents were going to have a hard time either attacking or defending themselves, and staggering a 3-clone diversion Shatter is both rewarding and effective. People often tend to think that they got CC’d by an entire team when a lockdown Mesmer turns their sights on them.

All is vain? If you’re my opponent, hell yeah!

1) INCREASES YOUR OVERALL SKILL AS A MESMER
The best, and most important thing about lockdown builds.

Of all the current Mesmer builds, lockdown has the highest skill cap and is the most difficult to play effectively. The rewards can be substantial: AoE boonstripping, keeping opponents out the fight, moderate-to-high burst damage.. but only if played properly. A poorly played lockdown Mesmer can’t rely on an easy build, stealth, or phantasms to save the day; it requires aggression, positioning, and strategic timing… but it pays off.

Play a lockdown Mesmer for a month. If it’s difficult and hard, don’t give up. Stick with it and even if you don’t enjoy the style no matter what build you go back to you’ll go back as a stronger, more technical, and overall better player.

• StunWay ( posted by: theCOREYCOLAK One of the first Mesmer lockdown build sposted on these forums & still one of the best)

• Chillruption (posted by: skcamow Chill-focused AoE-oriented lockdown taking advantage of Imbued Diversion and Chaotic Interruption)

• Shatterlock (posted by: Chaos Archangel Winner of the December “Build of the Month” Contest)

When I’m ready to try a completely different style of mesmer, this will be the direction I go for sure.

Almost sold on it.

I wish we could have some sort of alternate spec “bank” or something, to switch between builds easily, including gear.

Curunen.8729:

Almost sold on it.

I wish we could have some sort of alternate spec “bank” or something, to switch between builds easily, including gear.

Theyre thinking about perhaps planning to add it to the game… eventually.

But for now, I have 3 Mesmers, planning to make a 4th one.

1. My sylvari for tourneys, pve, wvw, running Shatter. Sometimes lockdown for duelling/messing around. (or phantasm in pve… But thats so easy, so I could care less :P).
2. A human for condition builds in pvp.
3. A lvl 80 asura that I never actually use in pvp or wvw… Not sure why i bothered leveling her up. It was fun though :P. I usually go phantasm on this one.

I tried making a norno a few times… But theyre just too big and bulky, and I dont like their voice :/. What makes it worse, is that you even feel tiny playing as a norn. The camera goes up to make it look like youre tiny D;

Oh, and nice thread, Chaos :P.

^4 mesmers! :o

I have a hard enough time focusing on one character!

Curunen.8729:

Almost sold on it.

I wish we could have some sort of alternate spec “bank” or something, to switch between builds easily, including gear.

This is one reason I’m still “stuck” in PvP until I’m sure I like my spec. Well, I got a bit hooked on it also (despite its MANY flaws) but I was drawn to it because you can respec for free in under a minute.

tried both lockdown builds of u chaos archangel , both r insanely strong and i love em, but i like the first one more, on the second build of urs i got difficultys fighting multiple enemys , soz idk name of builds atm:p

Wyrden.4713:

tried both lockdown builds of u chaos archangel , both r insanely strong and i love em, but i like the first one more, on the second build of urs i got difficultys fighting multiple enemys , soz idk name of builds atm:p

Ha, wih me its the other way around :P.

I can only fight 1v1 wih mind crush, 30/20/20, but fail in 1vMore
And with Shatterlock 30/10/0/0/30 i can do… Anything, kinda, cuz its so much like shatter. I stil have a hard time without DE, though :P

Also, happy new year

Heh, happy new year all of you pink butterflies.

On topic – the day greatsword gets a defensive skill (some sort of block/aegis that doesn’t revolve around cheesing Mimic with mirror blade) is the day I’ll drop staff in pvp and swap chaos X for chaos VII.
Alternatively I may try Sc/P with it, but not fond of the pistol for some reason.

Curunen.8729:

…cheesing Mimic with mirror blade…

What’s that?

(Cheese is tasty and nutritious.)

Qaelyn.7612:

Curunen.8729:

…cheesing Mimic with mirror blade…

What’s that?

(Cheese is tasty and nutritious.)

Mimic doesn’t start blocking until it absorbs a projectile, but you can capture your own bounced ones (Mirror Blade, or staff bounce) to kick-start it vs a melee opponent.

Pretty handy.

Cute. Thanks.

Death to mesmer.
/zerk necro

Been playing lockdown spec 30/20/0/0/20 recently and been loving it, although just started trying to play it th 30/10/0/0/30 with gs/staff… it’s weird… as Dog(HAH owned kitten filter!). Playing it kinda like a phantasm lockdown with shatter power.
Tho i guess sword/pistol or sword/sword would work far better in 1v1s with 30/10/0/0/30 atleast, but i kinda think the GS is too good to not have in team fights..

Stand The Wall.6987:

Death to mesmer.
/zerk necro

why u heff to be so angry?

Is the Confounding Suggestions trait really worth it in a 30/20/20/0/0 lockdown build?

If yes, why? I find it a bit lackluster to be honest.

^If a change could be done to wastrel’s punishment, then you might think otherwise.

Kraljevo.2801:

Is the Confounding Suggestions trait really worth it in a 30/20/20/0/0 lockdown build?

If yes, why? I find it a bit lackluster to be honest.

It’s well worth it, especially with staff. However I almost always take the extra change on mantras when going 30 into Domination. I just don’t like the RNG on Confounding Suggestions, too unreliable.

Glad to see Chaos Archangel promoting this playstyle at any chance he can.
I’m sure there would be way more mesmers playing lockdown if they’d just stick with the playstyle for a while to learn it. It’s definitely the most challenging way to play mesmer.

I wouldn’t recommend this playstyle for inexperienced PvP’ers though. For this playstyle to really shine, you need to have good knowledge about other professions to counter them effectively. And of course there’s a lot more stuff to pay attention to, since you have to closely look your opponents skills ontop of the “standard mesmer stuff”. But that’s just my opinion.

Hei guys, I’ve been following this topic with great interest. What do you think of the following build?:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsdWl0zKoXTzqGb9IhpHB33C/kCovcSKKtpB-jQyAYLBRKAEpAgGAmC1YzhCRVxioxqrxUuER1A-e

neol.5438:

Hei guys, I’ve been following this topic with great interest. What do you think of the following build?:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsdWl0zKoXTzqGb9IhpHB33C/kCovcSKKtpB-jQyAYLBRKAEpAgGAmC1YzhCRVxioxqrxUuER1A-e

Hey dude. While you’ve got the right idea for sure, there are a few things you have to ask yourself about this build.

• What do I do if focused by two or more enemies?
  With no stunbreaks and neither staff nor sword traited you’re going to have a hard time disengaging when fights go bad. Stunlock Warriors, thieves, and other Mesmer will roll you without Blink or Decoy to fall back on for some form of escape or repositioning.

• How do I deal with Condition Damage?
  Mender’s Purity (w/ Mirror) is not enough condition removal to hold back Necros, Engineers, condi Warriors/Mesmers for any amount of time. With Staff/Focus/Feedback and 20 points in Inspiration, your build has a bit of a supportive vibe going for it and will be better off fighting alongside allies like Engineers, Necros, and Guardians that can cleanse for you but you don’t simply want to be a leech: you want to be able to fight without someone holding your hand. Arcane Thievery is going to force you to choose between stealing boons and removing conditions but may be just enough removal if you grab Mantra of Recovery to work with Mender’s Purity. If that’s not enough, consider swapping Arcane with Disenchanter.

• Whats my main source of damage?
  Conditions? Phantasms? Its hard to tell, looking at your spec. It looks like you’ve geared towards a Hybrid build, but you lack a crucial trait that makes hybrids work: Sharper Images (Dueling 15). If you plan on having conditions contribute to your damage, and want to make use of clone-deaths, you’re gonna have to climb into the dueling line, possibly all the way to Deceptive Evasion to get the full effect of your abilities. Shuffling 20 points is going to radically alter your playstyle, so its up to you to decide what to trade (if you even decide to trade.)

Any questions, always feel free!

Hey Chaos,

I typically roam WvW kittenter with a traited focus (0/20/0/20/30).

When I saw your post I wanted to give this build a shot. I played around with the 30/20/20/0/0 build for a few hours in sPvP and roaming WvW. In both situations I had a hard time against multiple opponents.

In your experience, how well does a Lockdown Mesmer hold up against multiple foes? Do you feel like you can handle a 2v1 or 3v1 as well as a Shatter or PU Mesmer?

Thanks,
Knacky

Hrm, I seem to have a slightly different approach to Lockdown, because I am never alone in WvW. My GF runs a condition thief, so my goal is to lock an enemy down while her stuff kills them. To that end, I ignore handling 2-teams, for example. I lock one target down. That’s all I need to do. She keeps my back free while a mix of her conditions and my damage destroy the locked target, then we 2:1 the remaining one.

Likewise, I specced +25% Daze duration and have Mesmer runes (though the latter is experimental) because it maximizes the time I can keep someone from doing anything sensible. Especially with the Asura racial.
What we do is bring someone to ~50%, then lock them down and load them on conditions. By the time they realize what the actual issue is, they can no longer do much about it.

Another thing we do is hunt highwaymen. Those PU Condition Mesmers, the burst thieves, the control Warriors. All those 1v1 specs. I play the victim, she comes out of hiding, I lock down, they die like flies. It’s a trap sprung onto the one trying to trap me. I appear to be a perfect victim with my lack of stealth skills, my lack of control (not using it yet :P ), my Greatsword and my lack of powerful Phantasms.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

2) THEY NEVER SEE IT COMING

Except for the big sign by your boons that shows you have Mantra of Distraction prepared.

I think you overestimate the amount of players who check for that. By a lot.

How do you deal with Necros? I came across 4 or 5 today in WvW and had a rough time dealing with them when they pile on 5 conditions instantly.

knackyknave.7469:

How do you deal with Necros? I came across 4 or 5 today in WvW and had a rough time dealing with them when they pile on 5 conditions instantly.

You pretty much need to get the first hit in and lock them down completely. If you get the first hit, they are dead.

Been playing since launch and i am now working on my 16th 80 yeah i know i have commitment issues lol. but my current mesmer uses this in spvp and solo arena and omg its funny because you can tell the enemy becomes frustrated.
10/10 try this trait out sword pistol/greatsword and the daze mantra

Lockdown build is strong, any experienced mesmers won’t disagree on that. The question is in what aspect? Lockdown mesmer is relatively similar to pure glass thief. It does a lot of dmg in a short span of time while the enemy has almost nonexistent counter measure. But that’s that, the build is most useful when your enemy is completely oblivious of your existence. You go in, you burst them, you disable them. Done. Yeah you win. But the glassy longbow ranger can do that to.

Point is, lockdown build is heavily 1vs1 oriented and most certainly grants you a win providing that your enemy has no escaping skill whatsoever. The marginal effectiveness of the build; however, goes downhill exponentially as the number of enemies in the fight increases. People won’t care about a single-target class in a large scale fight. And if you want to roam, there might be a better build for that. The build is most sound in pvp. Is it good? yes, but is it the best? Doubtful. Because other builds could provide pretty much the same net performance. It’s just vanilla ice cream with different toppings.

@DavyMcB I don’t think lockdown is anything like glass thief. Shatter would be closest to GC thief you can get as a mesmer. And even that is pretty far, IMO.
And I don’t think the playstyle is “heavily 1v1 oriented”. It’s very good in 1v1’s, sure. But it’s still good/OK in 1vX situations, it’s just not Blackwater and requires more effort. Most builds spend few traits and one utility for interrupts, and that’s it. It’s not like you lose everything else about mesmer when you wan’t to go Lockdown.

Anyways, atleast to me it’s not about playing the most efficient and easy builds that are “best in the meta”. It’s about what’s fun and keeps you interested.

DavyMcB.1603:

Lockdown build is strong, any experienced mesmers won’t disagree on that. The question is in what aspect? Lockdown mesmer is relatively similar to pure glass thief. It does a lot of dmg in a short span of time while the enemy has almost nonexistent counter measure. But that’s that, the build is most useful when your enemy is completely oblivious of your existence. You go in, you burst them, you disable them. Done. Yeah you win. But the glassy longbow ranger can do that to.

Point is, lockdown build is heavily 1vs1 oriented and most certainly grants you a win providing that your enemy has no escaping skill whatsoever. The marginal effectiveness of the build; however, goes downhill exponentially as the number of enemies in the fight increases. People won’t care about a single-target class in a large scale fight. And if you want to roam, there might be a better build for that. The build is most sound in pvp. Is it good? yes, but is it the best? Doubtful. Because other builds could provide pretty much the same net performance. It’s just vanilla ice cream with different toppings.

I actully find it stronger in organized teamfights where people actully focus target than in 1v1, this is in a tpvp perspective though.
Though i guess one could just run mantra of distraction with a normal shatter build just without the random stun(which is awsome when it happens!)

Carighan.6758:

I think you overestimate the amount of players who check for that. By a lot.

If you are fighting against people that don’t see or read that, it really doesn’t matter and you can go 14/14/14/14/14.

DavyMcB.1603:

Lockdown build is strong, any experienced mesmers won’t disagree on that. The question is in what aspect? Lockdown mesmer is relatively similar to pure glass thief. It does a lot of dmg in a short span of time while the enemy has almost nonexistent counter measure. But that’s that, the build is most useful when your enemy is completely oblivious of your existence. You go in, you burst them, you disable them. Done. Yeah you win. But the glassy longbow ranger can do that to.
8
Point is, lockdown build is heavily 1vs1 oriented and most certainly grants you a win providing that your enemy has no escaping skill whatsoever. The marginal effectiveness of the build; however, goes downhill exponentially as the number of enemies in the fight increases. People won’t care about a single-target class in a large scale fight. And if you want to roam, there might be a better build for that. The build is most sound in pvp. Is it good? yes, but is it the best? Doubtful. Because other builds could provide pretty much the same net performance. It’s just vanilla ice cream with different toppings.

Question.. are you saying this from theory or from practice? And Im going to assume you’re talking about a specific build (30/20/0/0/20?) as your description of “lockdown” seemed more like you were talking about a shatter-oriented spec.

For one, lockdown isnt about how much damage you could do.. else why not go full shatter? The point of a lockdown build is in what you can deny and how well you can deny it. Shutting down Boons, conditions, skills, movement, ect is the real point of the builds and thats not something that looses effectiveness in team fights depending on the size oc the team. The damage is secondary, but still important.

Like I said, there are different types of lockdown builds too. Like support, lockdown is a sort of secondary or sub-style that can mesh with shatters, phantasms, or conditions. You could easily go 20/20/0/0/30 and still spec for lockdown (MoDistraction, Mesmer Runes ect.) just because of how vesatile that trait setup is.

At the end of the day, the Mesmer class is the icecream and we have many more flavors (build diversity) than many other professions. Its not about being the best build, its about having another way to play Mesmer that works effectively.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Play a lockdown Mesmer for a month. If it’s difficult and hard, don’t give up. Stick with it and even if you don’t enjoy the style no matter what build you go back to you’ll go back as a stronger, more technical, and overall better player.

Thanks for this I started PVP as a lockdown Mes following one of those guides. Played for about 2 months, pretty casually, sometimes it worked out, sometimes I didn’t really know what I was doing… which in the end, I think means I wasn’t quite playing lockdown correctly but had enough experience with Mesmer to keep advancing haha.

I’m on an invisibility centered build now because I want to learn more about effective usage of invisibility, but I feel like playing with lockdown for that time really improved my playstyle D; I plan on later switching back to lockdown before trying something different to keep honing skillz. Ty again!

Can anyone suggest a lockdown or lockdown style build that can be used in guild raids to add more support and/or annoyance to larger groups?

@Lord Cheswold. i recommend skcamaw’s chillruption for your case

Lord Cheswold III.5780:

Can anyone suggest a lockdown or lockdown style build that can be used in guild raids to add more support and/or annoyance to larger groups?

Maybe Sensotix’s bountifull interruption.

Or actually just use any build that uses bountifull interruption, and share 25 might with signet of inspiration. So that means atleast 0/0/20/0/0 will do.

I would like to put to your attention my shot at lockdown.
I do not know if it’s been posted yet. For sure it’s a mixture of old and new concepts.

I tried lockdown builds I found in the forum, mindcrush too. I like them, but in each one of them there is something that doesn’t suit my play style. So, the other day I was messing around with a build that focused on might stacking and thought, let see if I can put these together… and here it is:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8clwzCpHTTjGb9IipHEnvJckUYapWJF82FC-jUDBYfBCbBmiAiEJwJPFRjtMsIasKGYKXCxaXQaYoWzC1mzJydATKgqEGB-w

It worked incredibly well and I used it since then. What gives me is essentially three things:
1) less squishiness compared to a 30 domination lockdown build (for me it was an issue…)
2) much longer boons (needed for stacking boons/mainly might)
3) more reliable way to lock down instead of relying on a 50% stun chance.

So, lets see… less squishy. While this aspect can be balanced in wvw due to the higher flexibility, in pvp it becomes more difficult without a compromise on damage. However, now you can feel safer when picking berserker amulet since you get 300 point in toughness from chaos tree. Damage will not suffer and actually will be boosted!

Much longer boons. Full chaos tree plus travellers will greatly help might stacking. It will be constantly applied through the two sigils, GS #2, food and bountiful interruption and it will easily stack up to an average of 20 making power and conditions skyrocket (my attack is on average little less than 4k).

Reliability. What I do not like about confounding suggestions is the RNG factor. Chaotic interruption fix that by always giving an immobilize and a random condition from chill (the best), blind and cripple. So far, my experience is that it’s enough to freak out people even without the stun. And it last longer.

Utilities. For conditions I go with Mantra of Resolve, then Distraction and either blink or decoy. If you choose blink I’d put cd reduction trait in chaos. If you go for decoy I’d go with Debilitating Dissipation instead. Ether feast and Mass inv the other two.

Further options
1. I started to like mantras so much that I am going to try 30/10/30/0/0 and pick Harmonius Mantras. Mantras are so powerful that I got addicted. I need to see how well I can do with no DE.
2. I found that sometimes 1 condi removal is not enough. If this is the case for you too a 15/15/30/10/0 could be an option (or a 20/10/30/10 – 10/20/30/10)
3. An alternative set up would be switching sw/sw for staff which provides even more might (together all other boons ofc). This will however make you drop one of the two sigils from sw/sw which are “crit rate on kill” and battle.
4. while I opted for travellers in wvw, in pvp I use runes of speed for movement. If you can cope with slow running around you can use 2xfire 2xhoelbrak 2xstrength or 2xmonk 2xwater 2xstrength for a 18-19 seconds might making 25 stacks possible.
5. removing a blink/decoy or cond removal in large fights for boon sharing signet would do a lot of good

Please, let me know what you think

Im running a very similar build , here is mine :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgQQNAR8cnUEFTbNNC1wWbEx0Diz3EOSKMNVrkCe7CB-jECBYfAoiwojQJPFRjtMsIasqaKyqkYKXBVKgR1VB-w

Nubu.6148:

Im running a very similar build , here is mine :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgQQNAR8cnUEFTbNNC1wWbEx0Diz3EOSKMNVrkCe7CB-jECBYfAoiwojQJPFRjtMsIasqaKyqkYKXBVKgR1VB-w

Yes, after all a 20/20/30 is very common. However utilities, sigils and food choice are very different.
Anyway, how do you feel with signet in the healing slot?

Fine it gives you a extra burst if needed .
You should think about the toxic oil, it gives you 1 sek more immobilze and chill .
The other thing is , you cant remove boons .

@Nubu/Trooper – I’ll just say those are strong builds from my experience, at least in PvP. StickerHappy entered a similar build using sc/p-sw/sw for the december botm contest and in testing I suggested a move to essentially this spec you have with gs-sw/sw. For WvW we were able to build it with close to 100% condition duration to make the soft cc effects stronger, while keeping decent toughness and power/prec/crit dmg.

trooper, I use something very similar, but I couldn’t do without DE so now I run 20 in Chaos and skip CI.

I’ve been running the 30/20/20/0/0 version of Mind Crush for a little while now, and I love it. It even works nicely in Dungeons with signet of Inspiration for sharing those Boons from BI.
The only thing I miss with this is run speed for WvW, so I either switch to focus and back a lot or I try to stick to people giving AoE swiftness where I can.

the “news” in that build is that I wanted a lock down style (enche either CI or CS) and a reliable might stacking option and I think it accomplishes it nicely. It provides a huge boost to damage that can be shared if played with signet of inspiration.

@nubu. I will defenetly try the toxic oil which I overlooked.
@skcamow. Getting everything is not possible. But I will try boosting the condi duration of CI by using toxic oil and going 30/10/30 sacrificing DE but gaining Harmonious mantras (slurp :P )
@carighan. CI is one of the cornestone of the build. I cannot do without it. I can do without DE but it will take time and practice :|

@trooper, assuming you want to keep your 20/20/30 build, you can keep DE – here’s an example of getting the high condition duration. You can use the stone or oil, but try to use the toxic one to get the extra 10% condition duration.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8clwzCpnRTmGb9IipHBnvJckU0apWJF82FC-jkCBohCy0ACyZmFRjtMsIasabYKXAaXRWDDVFDxOuIa1SBAzuK-w

With DE, this is a shatter play style with this build and hence why I also take mental torment.

@trooper: That build (20/20/30) looks pretty solid, and one I’d be interested in trying out, despite my loathing the greatsword. The only thing I’d point out is that you may wanna consider Debilitating Dissipation over Manipulation cooldowns for both added damage (Bleed/Vuln. works good with greatsword) AND more AoE soft lockdown (Weakness)

Also -and this is moreso random theorycrafting- swapping sword/sword with sword/pistol , as well as checking out BlackDevil’s gear for his hybrid build, may work out better in your favor. Greatsword + Pistol + Debilitating Dissipation can wrack up a lot of bleed damage in addition to the power damage you do. Since you can also stack vulnerability pretty well I could definitely see this build working as a hybrid power/condition build.

Atra Culpa.5012:

I’ve been running the 30/20/20/0/0 version of Mind Crush for a little while now, and I love it. It even works nicely in Dungeons with signet of Inspiration for sharing those Boons from BI.
The only thing I miss with this is run speed for WvW, so I either switch to focus and back a lot or I try to stick to people giving AoE swiftness where I can.

This.. is awesome! =D

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Also -and this is moreso random theorycrafting- swapping sword/sword with sword/pistol , as well as checking out BlackDevil’s gear for his hybrid build, may work out better in your favor. Greatsword + Pistol + Debilitating Dissipation can wrack up a lot of bleed damage in addition to the power damage you do. Since you can also stack vulnerability pretty well I could definitely see this build working as a hybrid power/condition build.

I’ve done a lot of testing with pistol and chaotic interruption and have come to the conclusion that it isn’t worth it because the magic bullet stun overrides the chaotic interruption effects. A case can be made for a 1vMany scenario where you get daze on the 2nd bounce, but it’s too situational. You’re spending a lot to get 30 in chaos and it needs to be justified.

With Sw-Sw and GS you get immense gain from the trait due to the two AoE interrupt sources (plus daze mantra). So I’d stick with that, IMO.

I wasn’t considering Magic Bullet, but I still feel its worthwhile. Magic bullet gives you 3 control effects, AND can interrupt. The initial stun does conflict with CI, but Id argue that the 2s stun is as good of an effect without being required to interrupt AND the second daze bounce can still proc CI. The 30 points is still justified, even at the cost of kne skill, because of the boon duration/toughness boost in addition to BI gives good survivability AND Chaotic’s effect is still happening pretty frequently. You are sacrificing a bit of potential lockdown for a more reliable effect, but I think the damage increase would be worth it.(Also iDuelist seems to have a stronger psychological effect)

Definitely see the iDuelist angle with more bleed pressure. It’s just the CI part … if we had more viable CI weapon procs in that spec, sure. But there’s only 2 surefire in F3 and illusionary wave with magic bullet 2nd bounce situational. Taking daze mantra makes it passable, giving you 3 (like in stickerhappy’s phantasmic interruption, but even then I personally think GS-Sw/Sw is stronger after playing both ways).

I do appreciate the different perspective on magic bullet (stun is a stun), but the fact remains you’re totally wasting CI there (if you interrupt), which bothers the butterflies out of me. I just know I’ve tried it (a lot) with my chaotic conditions build (Staff-Sc/P) and eventually abandoned CI there because it’s just too underwhelming. I didn’t feel like I was getting enough out of it. My experience may not be others’ though.

I will throw a positive in for PvP play where you’re freqently in battle with multiple opponents and increase chance of getting that 2nd bounce, but I think I’d rather go with the sword #4 AoE counter blade orb (in this particular build).

Magic bullet vs sword 4 is a hard choice, the deal breaker for me is the cooldown trait, sword cooldowns is only in adept major whereas pistol mastery is in a master slot.

Master slot = duel X or other traits

Sword 4 on mastery is also on lower cd compared to bullet cd with pistol mastery.

I wanted to change my cleanse mantra for SoD. I miss the stun so bad.