Guild Wars 2

I’ve been using sword/pistol and staff but staff seems kind of weak and I’ve heard that sword/focus could be better.

Sw/Sw, Sw/P, and Sw/F. Pick two of the three depending on the fight. Some people will tell you to use GS but don’t listen to them, they’re bad and don’t know what they’re talking about.

Oh, no, another one of those threads… save yourselves!

Meh, he’s still right.

It might make sense to bring a Greatsword as your secondary weaponset to be able to gain Vigor from afar; not every player and group is good enough to always stay in melee from the get-go.

The big wheel keeps on turning…

It’s funny. I always take GS. Always. I am always the last one left alive. I am always the one who can do the most dmg due to always being alive. Go figure.

I took a screen cap of a random pug I took part in for HOTW p1 recently. Us four melee were at 15 stacks of might, the mesmer GS camper was at 4. We all (the melee) had fury as well.

You’re the last one alive because you’re being useless at range and you’re never doing the most damage because you’re … at range. Zerker warriors will be doing a reliable 10k-ish DPS and you’ll be doing … 3k + phantasms?

I don’t mind arguing this topic again, but it’ll annoy the entire forum.

colesy.8490:

I took a screen cap of a random pug I took part in for HOTW p1 recently. Us four melee were at 15 stacks of might, the mesmer GS camper was at 4. We all (the melee) had fury as well.

You’re the last one alive because you’re being useless at range and you’re never doing the most damage because you’re … at range. Zerker warriors will be doing a reliable 10k-ish DPS and you’ll be doing … 3k + phantasms?

I don’t mind arguing this topic again, but it’ll annoy the entire forum.

3k solo + phantasms is super high for an unbuffed GS mesmer. 1k + 500-600 extra from zerkers seems more accurate.

colesy.8490:

Zerker warriors will be doing a reliable 10k-ish DPS

Wut. I find that hard to believe. That’s massive.

Sw/Sw + Sw/Focus for trash mobs and bosses where reflect is useful. For bosses where you can’t reflect anything I usually swap out the focus for pistol.

If you stack damage modifiers, might, fury, power and precision you’ll hit 10k DPS easy.

For example, in 30/0/0/10/30 which I use, I had axe/mace so you have 5%+ damage with axe, mace or sword equipped offhand, 15%+ from berserker’s power, 5%+ from sigil of force on axe, 10%+ from sigil of wrath on mace, 10%+ from scholar runes, 10%+ from slaying potion. So altogether that’s 55%+ in damage modifiers which are very easy to maintain.

Then you have 150+ power from empower allies, 180+ power from str banner, 180+ precision and 10%+ crit damage from disc banner, 180+ precision from signet of fury and then signet of rage. Factor in team might and fury stacking, vuln stacking and stacking sigil (I actually had my perception mace on rather than my 10%+ vs. svanir sigil on so I had 170+ precision fighting the boss rather than the damage modifier) and you’ll hit 10k easy. Even better if you whirlwind and land all your hits which is pretty much 2/3rds of a hundred blades but over 0.75s instead of the 3.5s channel. Axe auto chain is also very on par with hundred blades (about 2% difference in favour of 100b), and I didn’t actually take any food for the dungeon so I could have dealt more.

colesy.8490:

If you stack damage modifiers, might, fury, power and precision you’ll hit 10k DPS easy.

For example, in 30/0/0/10/30 which I use, I had axe/mace so you have 5%+ damage with axe, mace or sword equipped offhand, 15%+ from berserker’s power, 5%+ from sigil of force on axe, 10%+ from sigil of wrath on mace, 10%+ from scholar runes, 10%+ from slaying potion. So altogether that’s 55%+ in damage modifiers which are very easy to maintain.

Then you have 150+ power from empower allies, 180+ power from str banner, 180+ precision and 10%+ crit damage from disc banner, 180+ precision from signet of fury and then signet of rage. Factor in team might and fury stacking, vuln stacking and stacking sigil (I actually had my perception mace on rather than my 10%+ vs. svanir sigil on so I had 170+ precision fighting the boss rather than the damage modifier) and you’ll hit 10k easy. Even better if you whirlwind and land all your hits which is pretty much 2/3rds of a hundred blades but over 0.75s instead of the 3.5s channel. Axe auto chain is also very on par with hundred blades (about 2% difference in favour of 100b), and I didn’t actually take any food for the dungeon so I could have dealt more.

So I ran some quick numbers. I used the numbers for HB on the wiki, being a cumulative coefficient of 5.5 for all of the hits. I used 3626 as my value for total power, assumed 100% crit chance, assumed a crit power modifier of 120%, and the added in that 5% from offhand, 5% from sigil, 15% from zerker power, and 10% from scholar runes. I did not include the extra 10% from mob specific sigils, as that would be a bit over the top, but did include slaying potions.

My analysis assumed a mob armor of 3000. This could very well be far too high, but I really don’t know.

I came out to a total value of 16k for the full HB (this is why I think that the 3000 armor is too high) for a dps of 5400 over 3.5 seconds.

Now, if the mob only had 2000 armor, the total damage would be 25k, coming out to 7k dps. Even so, that’s not 10k. I find it really really hard to believe that you could EVER crack 10k dps under normal circumstances.

I have no idea how you got such a low number.

colesy.8490:

I have no idea how you got such a low number.

You might want to read my post again then. Fully. Do you really get HB over 26k?

Yes.

Why would I lie about that for when there are speed clear groups hitting 60k HB? Why would I brag about an average number?

here’s an arah clip of Define, fully buffed:

89k.

here’s a clip of them doing the path I did:

Take all weapons in with you and just switch as needs demand. I personally like sword/sword with sword/pistol or sword/focus (projectile reflect) but there are situations where staff can be quite useful, mostly for playing defensively when you need to res someone. I use Greatsword the least as most dungeons are within small enclosed spaces where maintaining the full distance of Spatial Surge isn’t really possible. Also main-hand sword will be stripping boons whilst stacking vulnerability and doing a greater dps, so stick with that as much as possible.

Yes, just take every weapon. Aside from being able to change stats on Bifrost, in my backpack I have 3 different greatswords, 2 swords, a pistol, torch, scepter and focus.

Also 70 quaggan tonics and a balloon when things really get rough.

Pyroatheist.9031:

colesy.8490:

If you stack damage modifiers, might, fury, power and precision you’ll hit 10k DPS easy.

For example, in 30/0/0/10/30 which I use, I had axe/mace so you have 5%+ damage with axe, mace or sword equipped offhand, 15%+ from berserker’s power, 5%+ from sigil of force on axe, 10%+ from sigil of wrath on mace, 10%+ from scholar runes, 10%+ from slaying potion. So altogether that’s 55%+ in damage modifiers which are very easy to maintain.

Then you have 150+ power from empower allies, 180+ power from str banner, 180+ precision and 10%+ crit damage from disc banner, 180+ precision from signet of fury and then signet of rage. Factor in team might and fury stacking, vuln stacking and stacking sigil (I actually had my perception mace on rather than my 10%+ vs. svanir sigil on so I had 170+ precision fighting the boss rather than the damage modifier) and you’ll hit 10k easy. Even better if you whirlwind and land all your hits which is pretty much 2/3rds of a hundred blades but over 0.75s instead of the 3.5s channel. Axe auto chain is also very on par with hundred blades (about 2% difference in favour of 100b), and I didn’t actually take any food for the dungeon so I could have dealt more.

So I ran some quick numbers. I used the numbers for HB on the wiki, being a cumulative coefficient of 5.5 for all of the hits. I used 3626 as my value for total power, assumed 100% crit chance, assumed a crit power modifier of 120%, and the added in that 5% from offhand, 5% from sigil, 15% from zerker power, and 10% from scholar runes. I did not include the extra 10% from mob specific sigils, as that would be a bit over the top, but did include slaying potions.

My analysis assumed a mob armor of 3000. This could very well be far too high, but I really don’t know.

I came out to a total value of 16k for the full HB (this is why I think that the 3000 armor is too high) for a dps of 5400 over 3.5 seconds.

Now, if the mob only had 2000 armor, the total damage would be 25k, coming out to 7k dps. Even so, that’s not 10k. I find it really really hard to believe that you could EVER crack 10k dps under normal circumstances.

I don’t think you’re doing the calculation right.

I get:

1047.5(GS exotic avg) * 3626(POW) * 5.5(Coef) * 2.7(crit) * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.1 = 78664250

Divide that by 3000 for your example armor to get 26221 dmg, for a DPS of 7491.7.

Add in 25 vulnerability stacks, and you’ll get 9364.6 DPS.

Ugh. One of these again.

I remember when the mesmer forum was a pleasant place where new people can look for advice without being attacked.

Go away

TyHW.2783:

Pyroatheist.9031:

colesy.8490:

If you stack damage modifiers, might, fury, power and precision you’ll hit 10k DPS easy.

For example, in 30/0/0/10/30 which I use, I had axe/mace so you have 5%+ damage with axe, mace or sword equipped offhand, 15%+ from berserker’s power, 5%+ from sigil of force on axe, 10%+ from sigil of wrath on mace, 10%+ from scholar runes, 10%+ from slaying potion. So altogether that’s 55%+ in damage modifiers which are very easy to maintain.

Then you have 150+ power from empower allies, 180+ power from str banner, 180+ precision and 10%+ crit damage from disc banner, 180+ precision from signet of fury and then signet of rage. Factor in team might and fury stacking, vuln stacking and stacking sigil (I actually had my perception mace on rather than my 10%+ vs. svanir sigil on so I had 170+ precision fighting the boss rather than the damage modifier) and you’ll hit 10k easy. Even better if you whirlwind and land all your hits which is pretty much 2/3rds of a hundred blades but over 0.75s instead of the 3.5s channel. Axe auto chain is also very on par with hundred blades (about 2% difference in favour of 100b), and I didn’t actually take any food for the dungeon so I could have dealt more.

So I ran some quick numbers. I used the numbers for HB on the wiki, being a cumulative coefficient of 5.5 for all of the hits. I used 3626 as my value for total power, assumed 100% crit chance, assumed a crit power modifier of 120%, and the added in that 5% from offhand, 5% from sigil, 15% from zerker power, and 10% from scholar runes. I did not include the extra 10% from mob specific sigils, as that would be a bit over the top, but did include slaying potions.

My analysis assumed a mob armor of 3000. This could very well be far too high, but I really don’t know.

I came out to a total value of 16k for the full HB (this is why I think that the 3000 armor is too high) for a dps of 5400 over 3.5 seconds.

Now, if the mob only had 2000 armor, the total damage would be 25k, coming out to 7k dps. Even so, that’s not 10k. I find it really really hard to believe that you could EVER crack 10k dps under normal circumstances.

I don’t think you’re doing the calculation right.

I get:

1047.5(GS exotic avg) * 3626(POW) * 5.5(Coef) * 2.7(crit) * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.1 = 78664250

Divide that by 3000 for your example armor to get 26221 dmg, for a DPS of 7491.7.

Add in 25 vulnerability stacks, and you’ll get 9364.6 DPS.

Damage multipliers are additive, not multiplicative. So, if you have 15% and 5% and 10%, you get a total of 30% increased damage. That being said, I also forgot to account for 25 stacks of vulnerability, I only assumed 600 power from might, and I did assume a high armor value of 3000 or 2000. I honestly have no idea how much armor mobs have, so that could make a big difference.

Pyroatheist.9031:

TyHW.2783:

Pyroatheist.9031:

colesy.8490:

If you stack damage modifiers, might, fury, power and precision you’ll hit 10k DPS easy.

For example, in 30/0/0/10/30 which I use, I had axe/mace so you have 5%+ damage with axe, mace or sword equipped offhand, 15%+ from berserker’s power, 5%+ from sigil of force on axe, 10%+ from sigil of wrath on mace, 10%+ from scholar runes, 10%+ from slaying potion. So altogether that’s 55%+ in damage modifiers which are very easy to maintain.

Then you have 150+ power from empower allies, 180+ power from str banner, 180+ precision and 10%+ crit damage from disc banner, 180+ precision from signet of fury and then signet of rage. Factor in team might and fury stacking, vuln stacking and stacking sigil (I actually had my perception mace on rather than my 10%+ vs. svanir sigil on so I had 170+ precision fighting the boss rather than the damage modifier) and you’ll hit 10k easy. Even better if you whirlwind and land all your hits which is pretty much 2/3rds of a hundred blades but over 0.75s instead of the 3.5s channel. Axe auto chain is also very on par with hundred blades (about 2% difference in favour of 100b), and I didn’t actually take any food for the dungeon so I could have dealt more.

So I ran some quick numbers. I used the numbers for HB on the wiki, being a cumulative coefficient of 5.5 for all of the hits. I used 3626 as my value for total power, assumed 100% crit chance, assumed a crit power modifier of 120%, and the added in that 5% from offhand, 5% from sigil, 15% from zerker power, and 10% from scholar runes. I did not include the extra 10% from mob specific sigils, as that would be a bit over the top, but did include slaying potions.

My analysis assumed a mob armor of 3000. This could very well be far too high, but I really don’t know.

I came out to a total value of 16k for the full HB (this is why I think that the 3000 armor is too high) for a dps of 5400 over 3.5 seconds.

Now, if the mob only had 2000 armor, the total damage would be 25k, coming out to 7k dps. Even so, that’s not 10k. I find it really really hard to believe that you could EVER crack 10k dps under normal circumstances.

I don’t think you’re doing the calculation right.

I get:

1047.5(GS exotic avg) * 3626(POW) * 5.5(Coef) * 2.7(crit) * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.15 * 1.1 = 78664250

Divide that by 3000 for your example armor to get 26221 dmg, for a DPS of 7491.7.

Add in 25 vulnerability stacks, and you’ll get 9364.6 DPS.

Damage multipliers are additive, not multiplicative. So, if you have 15% and 5% and 10%, you get a total of 30% increased damage. That being said, I also forgot to account for 25 stacks of vulnerability, I only assumed 600 power from might, and I did assume a high armor value of 3000 or 2000. I honestly have no idea how much armor mobs have, so that could make a big difference.

Are you sure damage multipliers are additive? I was fairly certain I’d read they were multiplicative…looking for a source now

ETA: Not that its necessarily definitive, but gw2buildcraft shows damage multipliers as being multiplicative. That’s probably where I got it from

Quick test shows it is multiplicative.

Using a Guardian sword and steady weapons, specced 0/0/0/25/10.

Gives us elusive power for increased damage on low endurance (10%) and 20% for unscathed contender.

Without unscathed contender and full endurance, eg. no multipliers, I hit the golem for 155 damage.

With unscathed contender but no elusive power, I hit for 186 (155*1.2=186)

After a dodge with unscathed contender, I hit for 204.

155*1.1*1.2=204.6

155*1.3=201.5

TyHW.2783:

Quick test shows it is multiplicative.

Using a Guardian sword and steady weapons, specced 0/0/0/25/10.

Gives us elusive power for increased damage on low endurance (10%) and 20% for unscathed contender.

Without unscathed contender and full endurance, eg. no multipliers, I hit the golem for 155 damage.

With unscathed contender but no elusive power, I hit for 186 (155*1.2=186)

After a dodge with unscathed contender, I hit for 204.

155*1.1*1.2=204.6

155*1.3=201.5

Just did some testing as well, with mantras and compounding power. It is, in fact, multiplicative.

Alissah.9281:

Ugh. One of these again.

I remember when the mesmer forum was a pleasant place where new people can look for advice without being attacked.

Go away

First response to this thread, a player who focuses on pve theory crafting responding with the correct answer. Read the second response. Please do, go away.

@OP: Don’t “learn” the fights with a GS, it’ll only instill bad habits that you will have to overcome anyway in the future. Zerk mesmers are among the longest lasting in melee with the short cd survivability at relatively no dps loss (warrior dodge roll op).

The GS has one useful button in the phantasm. Outside of that, you’re stuck with a weapon that is outclassed in every single way by 1h sword. Boon radius avg’s out to 600 as well iirc. The GS needs ~1200 to hit harder than a necro’s flesh golemn auto. The knockback is >never needed whereas the focus pull is much better, the warden is another reflect along with temporal curtain, the duelist with sharper images stacks up bleed/confusion/dps, magic bullet is better cc, sword 4 can block if you don’t need the reflect and paired with a duelist, the two phantasms do the most damage possible.

For non organized groups, including every single boss in this game (fractal or dungeon), the only one’s you might prefer range on would be ashym from 50%-GS phase in the urban fractal, archdiviner without a guard in cliffside, legendary shaman, and melandru in arah 4. For these fights, keep your superior offhands and use a scepter/sword. You’ll do more damage, have another defensive swap, and be closer for boons without hitting like a pillow.

Following this post will be an influx of ignorant players unable to read that the thread mentioned DUNGEONS that refuse to listen to reason or better themselves arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Isnt standard mob armour 2600. Thats what I and everyone else I know uses for their calcs.

Ezzyz.6045:

@OP: Don’t “learn” the fights with a GS, it’ll only instill bad habits that you will have to overcome anyway in the future.

Lol =D another perfect player with the perfect group in a perfect world. Seems a solid 95% of the forumites these days are absolutely perfect!

Its true you dont learn tells or encounters when sitting at range akitteng the fight though.

So I love main hand sword and use it most, is it really best to have it equipped twice to have access to two different off hands rather than using any other main hand? Better than staff, scepter or greatsword when talking about cool downs?

Most decent players run with just the one mainhand and 2 offhands. It stops you from getting locked into a weapon with a bad auto attack for 10 seconds. If they need a ranged option then they will take staff or scepter. GS is for very select situations where you need piercing.

SuLor.2840:

So I love main hand sword and use it most, is it really best to have it equipped twice to have access to two different off hands rather than using any other main hand? Better than staff, scepter or greatsword when talking about cool downs?

Since auto-attacks in the game deal relatively high damage compared to skills, it is more important to have a good auto-attack than access to more cooldowns, at least when the cooldowns aren’t that good. Sword in both slots tends to be the most solid way to go because not only does sword have the best auto-attack, the offhand phantasms tend to be very good as well. Having a GS in your other weapon set means that not only do you lose access to a second strong phantasm summon (you’re stuck with Berserker, which sucks), your auto-attack also becomes very weak. That’s not really worth the tradeoff of getting an extra Mirror Blade.

Scepter is actually the ideal ranged weapon of choice but people are afraid of it for some reason, probably because it has shorter range than the GS. That said, you definitely don’t want to have a scepter in your other weapon set all the time if you’re trying to melee, especially when summoning phantasms quickly is the name of the game for mesmers and scepter auto always eats up one phantasm.

The topic of multiplicative multipliers got me thinking about 2 things.
1) Would a phantasm build rival a warriors damage if phantasms were affected by more than just the two traits and base stats?
2) Utility aside, how comparable is the damage for shatter and phantasm builds when the shatter build is capable of stacking multipliers?

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

The topic of multiplicative multipliers got me thinking about 2 things.
1) Would a phantasm build rival a warriors damage if phantasms were affected by more than just the two traits and base stats?
2) Utility aside, how comparable is the damage for shatter and phantasm builds when the shatter build is capable of stacking multipliers?

Well, as far as phantasms go, those 2 traits provide a multiplier of 1.3225, which is rather high on its own. If you could then boost them with things like scholar runes, slaying potions, and sigils, the damage would be crazy. Counting mantras and compounding power, you could have a damage modifier somewhere around 2.2.

With regards to shatter, I’m going to have to say no. The only skills that change in a shatter build are the shatters themselves, which already start out worse since they only get a 20% modifier rather than a 32.25% modifier. Mind wrack really doesn’t do good sustained damage at all, and so even with everything else, it won’t compare.

Trait wise, the shatters have 20% more and also compounding power for 3/6/9% or more so (9+9+6+3)/4 for an average of 6.75%. With Runes/Potion/Night/Sigil/Frost spirit
1.2 × 1.0675 × 1.1 x 1.1 × 1.1 × 1.1 x 1.07 = 2.13
If it isn’t nighttime =2.04. That is a lot more than 1.3225. Also with ascended weapons not yet having an affect on phantasms… I’m going to crunch some numbers.

Pyro, Cole, and Guan are the only mesmers I listen too.

If a mesmer is using a GS in a dungeon, be grateful. It means he/she is not good enough to play at melee range and is saving you valuable time in having to res them constantly. I have a guildmate/ game friend who ive been playing with for a year and shes simply not good enough to melee with any character so she sticks with guardian and uses scepter/staff. I convinced her to try melee in a dungeon and it was a horrible scenario that resulted in PUG rage quits.

GS is just fine; its help for the crippled.

im level 23 Mesmer right now. What is the best weapon for leveling just to get to 80 or running with zergs? cause i really like GS for soloing but im not sure what would be good for the zerging or speed leveling

Full zerker + ruby orbs since that’s what I have atm. Ascended main hand sword and exotic offhand sword. Sigil of perception/battle were nonfactors at the time. I tested the swordsman in 2 phantasm builds and 1 shatter build.
0/20/0/25/25 = Average hit of 2028.49
10/30/0/30/0 = Average hit of 2455.22
20/20/0/0/30 = Average hit of 1931.62
I did not trait for phantasm damage in the shatter build. If traited, it should be ~ 2221.36. This is all vs. dummies in LA so no crit damage factored in. Next, I looked at F1 and F2 damage in the 20/20/0/0/30 build but I did not take any of the traits to buff damage. F1 = 1216.84. F2 = 349.54 Since F1 has an 11.5 second cd and F2 has a 23 second cd, using F2 right after every 2nd F1 is a minor boost that should be added in there. All of that was IP with zero clones. Let’s assume the 20/20/0/0/30 mesmer does trait for 15% phantasm dmg, 20% MW dmg and compounding power. Sigil of force/slaying and potion of slaying. So F1 and F2 do 1.1 × 1.1 × 1.05 x 1.03 (x1.2) for 1.31 (1.57) more F2 (F1) dmg. I decided to not factor in spirit of frost/sigil of night/runes of scholar in since those are a bit more “random” and my current numbers were all with ruby orbs. That brings single/no clone F1 to 1910 and F2 to 457.89.
What happens when we go with two phantasms (duelist+swordsman)? What if we don’t grab DE and trait for the pistol instead? Rotation set up: summon duelist/swordsman every 12 seconds. The duelist gets 2 volleys off every 12 seconds. Swordsman gets 3 attacks per 12 seconds. Sword 3 also has a 9 second CD so it can be tossed in there. 2 phants+clone =~5324 base damage. So every 24 seconds: You get 2 full MWs and a bonus F2. A swordsman gets 6 attacks and a duelist gets 4. Shatter DPS = 482 DPS and it can hit up to 5 targets. Swordsman would be ~555 DPS vs 1 target. Keep in mind these are non-crit numbers. For comparison, the 10/30/0/30/0 build would be doing ~614 DPS per swordsman. Both duelists would be traited for 100% finishers but duelist in the phantasm build would get more attacks per minute because of how the attacks are staggered.
Stuff not calculated for: the differences in power are already factored into the raw dps numbers but the phantasm build will have 10% more crit and 4% more crit chance. I did not factor in shattered strength but I also didn’t look too much at sigils for the phantasm build. Frost spirit would be a 1.07 multiplier but only for shatters/autos. Sigil of night was not added. The shatter build would be able to summon more often do to IC. Mirror images + F3 would also be able to stack 24 vulnerability on a boss every 36 seconds for a nice spike in party damage. The shatter build would be doing more condition dmg/bonus confusion however the phantasms would not have fury.
So overall, the phantasm build can potentially have all 3 phantasms tearing 1 person apart. If the shatter build chose to do this, it could summon the 3 phantasms faster but it would do about 10-20% less phantasm damage while having up to 40% stronger auto attacks. Against 2+ targets, the shatter build wins by a lot. The shatter build will of course not have a traited focus or 20% shorter glamour CDs and confusion damage is sorta random. Depending on how often you have 3 phantasms up, the shatter build may out DPS the phantasm build even against single targets while also doing much better AOE.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

The topic of multiplicative multipliers got me thinking about 2 things.
1) Would a phantasm build rival a warriors damage if phantasms were affected by more than just the two traits and base stats?
2) Utility aside, how comparable is the damage for shatter and phantasm builds when the shatter build is capable of stacking multipliers?

Oh lawd if phantasms also got the +16% from mantras and +9% from Compounding, plus the 5% from Force, 10% from potion, 7% from Frost Spirit, etc., there’d be some serious nerfs incoming.

Here you go Pyro, this was the second-last hit of my HB, the next one brought the total damage to 40-something thousand. This is a PUG group, almost full stacks of might, fury, str/disc banners, 20 perception stacks and only 12 vuln stacks.

Also, some more screen caps:

My stats:

http://i.imgur.com/w8mXKCd.jpg

My “over the top” slaying sigils:

http://i.imgur.com/BktCzWd.jpg (note – I had perception stack mace on for second boss)
http://i.imgur.com/cqHlZxn.jpg

build:
http://i.imgur.com/3mlZcGW.jpg

Also note the slaying potion on my interface, didn’t use any foods.

Pyroatheist.9031:

colesy.8490:

Zerker warriors will be doing a reliable 10k-ish DPS

Wut. I find that hard to believe. That’s massive.

There’s a reason why speed runs include 3 warriors, a guardian and a mesmer.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

The topic of multiplicative multipliers got me thinking about 2 things.
1) Would a phantasm build rival a warriors damage if phantasms were affected by more than just the two traits and base stats?
2) Utility aside, how comparable is the damage for shatter and phantasm builds when the shatter build is capable of stacking multipliers?

Oh lawd if phantasms also got the +16% from mantras and +9% from Compounding, plus the 5% from Force, 10% from potion, 7% from Frost Spirit, etc., there’d be some serious nerfs incoming.

Phantasms don’t even get better with ascended (offhand) gear

The best weapon is the one you enjoy!
-End of line-

Xavi.6591:

Pyroatheist.9031:

colesy.8490:

Zerker warriors will be doing a reliable 10k-ish DPS

Wut. I find that hard to believe. That’s massive.

There’s a reason why speed runs include 3 warriors, a guardian and a mesmer.

Only if you don’t want to be optimal.

One warrior, one ranger, 2 ele, 1 engi is better.

colesy.8490:

Xavi.6591:

Pyroatheist.9031:

colesy.8490:

Zerker warriors will be doing a reliable 10k-ish DPS

Wut. I find that hard to believe. That’s massive.

There’s a reason why speed runs include 3 warriors, a guardian and a mesmer.

Only if you don’t want to be optimal.

One warrior, one ranger, 2 ele, 1 engi is better.

To clarify this. That composition is better for dps. Not necessarily record runs. Other factors come into play like running sections. Mechanics where reflects or blocks might improve time will make mesmers and guards useful. Or stealth from a thief.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Scepter is actually the ideal ranged weapon of choice but people are afraid of it for some reason, probably because it has shorter range than the GS. That said, you definitely don’t want to have a scepter in your other weapon set all the time if you’re trying to melee, especially when summoning phantasms quickly is the name of the game for mesmers and scepter auto always eats up one phantasm.

With the new Scepter cooldown reductions, this might further draw people to use it in PvE as the range weapon of choice in the fights where you need to switch to a range weapon.

Bumbler.7581:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Scepter is actually the ideal ranged weapon of choice but people are afraid of it for some reason, probably because it has shorter range than the GS. That said, you definitely don’t want to have a scepter in your other weapon set all the time if you’re trying to melee, especially when summoning phantasms quickly is the name of the game for mesmers and scepter auto always eats up one phantasm.

With the new Scepter cooldown reductions, this might further draw people to use it in PvE as the range weapon of choice in the fights where you need to switch to a range weapon.

A zerker scepter in PvE might arguably be better than a greatsword. You just have to either go with 2 phantasms and a clone or go with 3 phantasms by managing your auto attack so you never overwrite your third phantasm with a clone.

I will just continue using my GS and doing more dps via staying alive longer.

Scepter aa has a lower dps than GS’s. However scepter has a decent block and a good burst skill and can make use of offhand phantasms and utility. Scepter 3 also works like GS aa, just with 5 targets instead of 3 in a line.

Still, I guess for “I need a ranged weapon” situations GS is better in general. But it (as allways) depends on the situation.

Scepter has less auto-attack damage than GS but:

1) The phantasms you get access to are MUCH better. Plus if you are playing dedicated range you get access to two via offhand swapping.

2) You don’t have to sit at 1000+ range all of the time to get damage. The closer you are to the target, the easier it is to give/get AOE buffs.

3) Confusing Images is way better damage than anything on the GS. It’s not enough to overtake the raw auto-attack DPS difference but it is there.

Overall, one Swordsman, one Duelist, and one clone on top of scepter auto will overtake three Berserkers and GS auto in terms of raw DPS, not to mention that it’s much easier to maintain two phantasms using two weapons than to maintain three using one.21

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

1) The phantasms you get access to are MUCH better. Plus if you are playing dedicated range you get access to two via offhand swapping.

Ignoring the fact that the phantasms aren’t much better – Using a GS doesn’t mean you can’t swap. In any weapon combination you will have 2 different phantasms, aslong as you don’t use 2 times the same offhand … Your argument makes no sense at all.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

2) You don’t have to sit at 1000+ range all of the time to get damage. The closer you are to the target, the easier it is to give/get AOE buffs.

You don’t have to sit at 1000+ range all of the time to get *max damage.
I’m not even sure that the scepter outdamages the GS in melee. They probably gonna have the same dps, just that the GS has penetration. But I don’t have exact numbers here right now.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

3) Confusing Images is way better damage than anything on the GS. It’s not enough to overtake the raw auto-attack DPS difference but it is there.

The skill takes about 4 seconds to complete. However it deals great damage to up to 5 targets in it’s path, the damage isn’t that bursty as it looks. I’m not ingame so I don’t have exact numbers on this one, but I bet it’s not that much higher than GS aa’s in this time (except you manage to hit 5 targets) Also you won’t have the ability to stack might or remove protection or other boons like the GS. To be fair you will have a very strong block with probably the highest dps of all the GS/scepter skills.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Overall, one Swordsman, one Duelist, and one clone on top of scepter auto will overtake three Berserkers and GS auto in terms of raw DPS, not to mention that it’s much easier to maintain two phantasms using two weapons than to maintain three using one.21

This is totaly male cow excrement.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Phantasm-DPS-traited-vs-untraited/first

DpS:
Swordsman – 144
Berserker – 115
Duelist – 98
Warlock – 81
Warden – 81
Mariner 67
Mage – 30
Whaler – 28
Disenchanter – 21
Defender – 18

If you now stop ignoring the fact that the Zerker is AoE you might get an idea how much damage the phantasms really deal. Even if you hit just one target, the berserker is still about the same as the duelist (bleeding) and a bit weaker than the swordsman. If there are at least 2 tagets, you won’t be able to outdamage them anymore. And there are more than one target, since you are ranged – otherwise you would take sword/sword and go melee. Also if you are forced to range an enemy he will be dangerious and you need distance – guess wich phantasm has cripple?

Also you can still (as I have already mentioned before) switch weapons and use another phantasm offhand if you want to. If you need full range and you play sc/sw + sc/p I’ll go for GS + sc/s. I guess I’ll be fine. And if you use sword on other hand – so will I.

Check first if you say something plz.