Guild Wars 2

My question isn’t if the build can DO damage, it is what exactly is causing the damage.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mVmmmc0zMMLbFoML0no0Gx0Gmamabck8kiO7kiC7khf7070M7kGW70V7ow18ofj

Edit: Thanks to the awesome feedback, the build is currently..

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mVmmmc0zMMLbaoMLbno0GG0xzaVaVkq8kiO7kiC7khf7070M7kGW70V7ow18ofj

This build revolves around having 3 staff clones casting Winds of Chaos [http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Chaos] alongside me and fading in/out of stealth.

Sometimes this build seems unbelievably great, other times woefully underpowered. I feel like there is something I’m not seeing. Anyone use a similar build and could explain?

Also, I’m not big on shatters usually, but I see a bit of shatter potential here. If someone more knowledgeable could elaborate, that’d be much appreciated.

I’d guess the warlock is the hardest hitting part of the build (outside of shatters). Winds of Chaos can have moments where it’s burning/bleeding all the time but it can also be chaining vulnerability as well. Bleeds from clones are probably good damage over time.

Shatters are pretty strong and this build is set up for them, all you’re missing is Illusion VI and XI. With a confusion stacks from shatters, I’d expect it to hit for like 2k-5k regularly. Shattering with the build would increase its damage.

This is pretty close to the build I’m using. I’d get rid of blade training and get either retaliation on block or phantasms have fury, you’re going to be using staff majority of the time. I’d also switch your first trait in illusions to either recharge shatters at 50% health or 33% longer confusion. My utilities are mirror images, blink, decoy. Don’t be afraid to shatter, this build can create a never ending stream of illusions.

your main damage is from your clones and yourself casting winds of chaos. use sigil of earth for more bleed.

you get 8-10 stacks of bleed+poison/burn easily, the bleed should tick for atleast 120.

the problem with this build is that its really only good for spvp and very small fights, since you have no real way to catch or control someone in wvw if they decide to run away.

Perhaps it’s just down to taste, but I personally haven’t been using Mirror Images on land-based combat since I got Deceptive Evasion. If the idea is to “disappear in a crowd”, I’d much rather use blink in that spot.

It’s a great PvE Dungeon build as well.

As said, all the damage comes from the bleed and burn that Winds of Chaos puts on mobs. It also has some nice utility in that the bounce will typically buff you or your allies.

The times you feel like you’re not doing a lot of damage can possibly come in one of two ways: If someone else is also a condition build so you guys are hitting the stack limits often or if you are having a bad day with the random number generator and your winds of chaos is applying vulnerability more often than bleed or burn.

Don’t be afraid to shatter with this build, but make sure you can always keep three clones up. Basically, if the clones aren’t dying, go ahead and shatter then pull three more out immediately. It’s more damage and more applied conditions.

All of the above responses have been very helpful, thank you!

I’ll definitely keep Mind Wrack in mind for my rotations, particularly when I have Sword Clones out.

-Would Retaliation on block (Dueling 3) actually even work? Does it proc with Aegis?
-Would The Prestige’s burn be effective with such a build?
-Would Cry of Frustration be effective at all?

- Blink vs Mirror Images has me torn. On one hand, Blink would be a good way to chase people down in combination with Illusionary Leap, but it’d be even more effective porting around while Stealth’d to be even more of a headache for allies. Seems a better defensive tool, but Mirror Images gives me a 2 sec Distortion if I need as well as an instant two clones to pump damage out. Seems like a damage vs defense decision, curious to know which one others would pick for this build.

Yes retaliation on block works quite well. I don’t choose between blink and mirror images, I take them both and decoy. Torch works great, more stealth to work with prismatic understanding. Go watch Seven Mirror and FLIMP’s videos for examples of the build and playstyle

(My post is entirely for WvW, I haven’t tested it much in in PvE)

Personally, I’ve been having some great success running around with a 0/25/25/0/20 build with staff/sword + focus. I use Decoy, Blink, and Null Field, simply because Mirror Images is overkill for clone generation, and Null Field can be a real life saver (And even a life killer )

Basically, I use the 33% confusion trait and the manipulation traits (blinking more often = fantastic, longer range = you’re a bit safer), and just spam clones and phantasms to hopefully get 6 stacks of confusion on someone. Once you determine who, you focus them and use Chaos Storm and chaos armor to keep yourself protected while you suicide run yourself to get a few extra conditions on them, then use your utilities to get yourself back into your zerg and out of all harm.

As long as you’re quick with your teleports/Decoy, there’s almost no risk of being killed, with the potential of killing off players who normally have made it to safety. Null Field is even my #1 tool for killing d/d eles, since it can strip several boons (and most don’t realize that it’s the Null Field that’s doing it, so they don’t avoid it).

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Compounding Power doesn’t affect condition damage; in fact AFAIK no +% damage works with condition damage.

Retaliation’s damage scales on Power: the base damage is decent so you don’t necessarily need Power to get use out of it, but it still works considerably better with a Power build. And yes, Retaliatory Shield does proc off Aegis. In general though I find Retaliation not very useful for Mesmers as Mesmer defence is more about avoiding damage rather than tanking it.

If you’re planning to Shatter frequently with a condition build, Master of Misdirection can help you get more out of your Shatters.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

All of the above responses have been very helpful, thank you!

I’ll definitely keep Mind Wrack in mind for my rotations, particularly when I have Sword Clones out.

-Would Retaliation on block (Dueling 3) actually even work? Does it proc with Aegis?
-Would The Prestige’s burn be effective with such a build?
-Would Cry of Frustration be effective at all?

- Blink vs Mirror Images has me torn. On one hand, Blink would be a good way to chase people down in combination with Illusionary Leap, but it’d be even more effective porting around while Stealth’d to be even more of a headache for allies. Seems a better defensive tool, but Mirror Images gives me a 2 sec Distortion if I need as well as an instant two clones to pump damage out. Seems like a damage vs defense decision, curious to know which one others would pick for this build.

Or if you’re me, Pretigue for stealth + blind + confuse, pop mirror image for full clone set + distraction/distortion, full heal (more clones = more win), blink while stealthed (but only really worth it if you are traited for 1200 range), and a decoy on backup to throw in the mix.

Not sure but think Embolist agree (who play condition build more frequent than me) that any pvp situation and especialy in wvwvw where its alot of open space to move, its hard to get somone down with a steady dmg output without spikes.

When hes health start drop he uses defenses heal etc or simply leg it. If your dmg have a spike here and there and best if its on demand you can more easy take somone down. The 3 clone staff dmg is good if they get a chance to stand and dmg, but a sudden shatter/wand confusion stacking or something else is often wery rewarding.

I also think condition set works best in group, here its extremly strong thu as your steady dmg and survival keep preassure on the enemy, and your teammate,s burst down the low health one. Also confusion is a wery strong controll tool. Even vs a experienced and skilled player who dont use abilitys it serv a role as it forces him to not attack/use abilitys.

Just my 2 cents

/Osicat

As Osi says. This thing works great in sPvP because if the other dude legs it then fine, you cap the point, GG.

In WvW people simply run away, your clones are too slow (they run to the very edge of maximum distance, shoot, the other person has not stopped running so by the time the projectile reaches them it is out of range) and people hiding in forts are pretty much immune to you. Vice-versa if you’re defending and they move away.

I tried dueling a few friends over sPvP and at least one of them was impossible to kill since as soon as things went wrong he’d just leg it and keep on going until health and CDs reset.

But as I mentioned for a normal game of sPvP it works fine. After a while some people just give up when they see me and run away. It is fine, I do not chase them. I cap the point and work towards winning the game.

Though I use Decoy, Null Field/Blink and Mirror Images I am beginning to think I should swap Mirror Images for Null Field or Blink as to always have them on demand.

Tip: In Illusions pick Retaliation when using Cry of Frustration. Start the fight, generate three clones (I have a GS on the other weapon slot), Cry of Frustration, swap back to staff. Chaos Armor. 1900 toughness + Protection diminishes your damage taken. In the meanwhile whomever is hitting you is doing so hitting both through 6 stacks of Confusion and 15 seconds of Retaliation. Add staff 2 + Mirror Images + Chaos Storm to the mix. Then follow the usual of stealthing, mingling with the clones etc but keep an eye on your Chaos Armor and Cry of Frustration to do it all over again, the only time where you actually sit there eating the damage.

Kanto.1659:

people hiding in forts are pretty much immune to you. Vice-versa if you’re defending and they move away.

Running a full glamour build with focus, i have been racking up kills defending keeps. People like to clump up together when attacking keeps, whether at the gate, or a little ways back from the gate to attack the gate or people on walls. If you throw down a feedback, nullfield, veil, and iWarden you can easily get confusion ticks up to 4k per skill use, and those people spamming the gate will explode before they realize what happened to them.

The problem with this is its not really possible to stomp them because they are surrounded by a zerg waiting to rez, the Warden might be able to finish them off if downed, but it doesnt happen very often.

Just my 2 cents

damage comes from the bleeds and burning applied by you and your clones via winds of chaos.

i’d recommend using sigil of corruption instead of sigil of earth, since clones won’t inherit the effect of the latter, they however inherit your condition damage.

you also don’t really need mirror images, i’d replace it with arcane thievery.

and the prestige won’t give you a boon on cloak so i don’t really recommend a torch, better use a focus.

RapidSausage.4620:

damage comes from the bleeds and burning applied by you and your clones via winds of chaos.

i’d recommend using sigil of corruption instead of sigil of earth, since clones won’t inherit the effect of the latter, they however inherit your condition damage.

you also don’t really need mirror images, i’d replace it with arcane thievery.

and the prestige won’t give you a boon on cloak so i don’t really recommend a torch, better use a focus.

I don’t see why you couldn’t use both Corruption and Earth. Earth on your Staff and MH, Corruption on your OH. The stacks persist even if you switch weapons.

The Prestige does bestow boons with Prismatic Understanding, it’s only the +1s stealth part that doesn’t apply.

Embolism.8106:

RapidSausage.4620:

damage comes from the bleeds and burning applied by you and your clones via winds of chaos.

i’d recommend using sigil of corruption instead of sigil of earth, since clones won’t inherit the effect of the latter, they however inherit your condition damage.

you also don’t really need mirror images, i’d replace it with arcane thievery.

and the prestige won’t give you a boon on cloak so i don’t really recommend a torch, better use a focus.

I don’t see why you couldn’t use both Corruption and Earth. Earth on your Staff and MH, Corruption on your OH. The stacks persist even if you switch weapons.

The Prestige does bestow boons with Prismatic Understanding, it’s only the +1s stealth part that doesn’t apply.

hmm
i didn’t know that about the prestige.

if you do the 4*winds of chaos spamming, it does a good amount of damage in 1v1 situations but it gets less reliable in 1vsx situations because of random bounces and clones from DE not hitting the main target. try to summon clones with skills like mirror immage, these clones will hit the target and try to stay in melee range so that all of your bounces really hit the main target twice.

but I would try to get your damage up:
imo a full rabid geared mesmer with decoy/blink/staff has all the survivability it needs.
you even has sword 2 for more invuls. so why not trade some defense traits for offense ones?
examples:
chaos IV -> chaos V, more bleeds (it stacks 2-3 bleeds can’t remember and other very usefull conditions like weakness)
illusions III -> V, it really helps when you are working with confusion and you SHOULD working with it
chaos XII -> illusions XI, more shatters! you really should involve shatters in your combat. they are your burst and as osicat mentioned it helps a lot with killing someone.
being killed slowly by burn/bleed is good but gives time to react. a burst of confusion will drastically shorten the time to react.
also I would argue what trait gives more survivability. especially in spvp where a longer stealth often means harder time to cap/defend a point.
and don’t underestimate a daze or distortion on demand even without illusions out. can’t count the times I was saved because of instant distortion after being jumped by 2thieves or other sneaky stuff! or in 1vx situations a instant daze often results in a safe stomp

so in short:
trade some defensive traits for offensive ones and try to burst with cof. you should get a lot more damage, a lot.

I cant thank ya’ll enough for pointing out all these facts that would’ve taken me days, maybe even a couple weeks to figure out. Most of the builds I’ve made usually involved keeping my Phantasms ALIVE, so shattering is still a bit new to me, especially iPersona.
Theres some newer information here since last time I checked the thread, and will certainly do more testing today.
-Guardians and Necromancers seem to giggle whenever I attempt to take them on (they can’t kill me, but its almost always a stalemate). Is there any way around this, or is condition damage naturally ineffective against these professions?

- Prismatic Understanding vs Illusory Persona SEEMS like a no-brainer, but would there be any reason to choose Prismatic over Persona?

Honestly, Prismatic’s only great if yer planning to go heavy-stealth. As for Guard/Necro, understand that: Guards are one of GW2’s Masters of Boon. Necro is Master of Countering Boons/Manipulating Conditions. Eles can do a good chunk of Boon Mastery and Condition Cleanup. Any of these gents can be a condi-Mesmer’s worst nightmare. Fortunately, we’re not too shabby on flipping Boon/Condition, ourselves. Just means those classes are best fought with a mix of condi and straight DPS. Also, learn to love Null/Arc. Thievery – those allow us to whizz on Boon-users.
Hit ‘em with some condi, make ’em burn c/ds and Re-Boon, then either swipe a few Boons/give ’em yer Conditions, or just cancel ’em. This doesn’t work as well on Necros, since it can easily become a game of Condition Hot Potato. And they’ll win, if they’re specced heavy for it.

Against a bunker guardian, it’s going to be a long, drawn-out fight unless you have the Dom trait to strip boons.

The fight should end though. If it doesn’t end, you’re not trying hard enough or you’re spec’d too defensively. I would say 50/50 chance of winning depending on who makes more mistakes.

He has sword, too. Keep throwing a few sword clones in there too, and you can strip pretty well. You give up a bit of DPS, but getting rid of his aegis, prot, and regen should more than even that out.

Whenever I see a guard soloing a point I usually swap blink for null field, too. No need to port around so much on a point (esp against a guard), and the extra boon strip/confusion field works great. Though you might be missing blink if enemy help shows up. Ele bunker, that’s another story.

Boon Stripping with Sword Clones.. I will definitely keep that in mind.
I forgot to mention; Thanks to the advice given, I’ve made edits to the original build.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mVmmmc0zMMLbFoMLbno0pf0xVaVVkq08kiO7kiC7khf7070M7kGW70V7ow18ofj
(Edit: I originally failed with the first link and still had a previous trait)

-Now I’m wondering, would 5x Runes of Nightmare/1xRune of Undead be better for the +condition duration? It may be a hefty sacrifice in toughness since I also took some points out of Chaos.

-It hurts my heart to lose Chaos (X), and make my Staff is now a bit slower but am I right in thinking that its a worthwhile sacrifice to add Confusion on clone death [25 in Dueling] in addition to Weakness 3sec/3xBleeds/3xVulnerability(5sec for both) from Chaos (V)?

-Would it be more advantageous to drop five more from the Chaos tree in favor of maxing Dueling? I’m thinking Dueling I or IV, V, and X

Edit: I love Blink, but Null Field /Arcane Thievery are catching my eye. Decisions…

Confusion on clone death, and the other traits that say on death, doesn’t work with shatters, only when someone kills your clone.

Yeah, also when the clones’ target dies &/or is replaced by another clone/phantasm. It happens rather often, especially when I’m sitting back taking it easy with Winds of Chaos & 3x clones.

Right now, my current strategy is to shatter when equipped with Sword and sit with clones and play Hide & Seek while in Staff, switching back and forth as often as I need.

If you’re going to wvw youll probably like confusion lasts 33% longer in place of the 3% damage and I think you’re way better off with the staff cd/added toughness than more in dueling. I also prefer to shatter my clones rather than just replacing them, with that minor in illusions all shatters cause confusion. The confusion from that dueling minor trait is not affected by any duration enhancement not can it be stacked in intensity ( someone correct me if I’m wrong) so IMO it’s not very good if you’re playing condition. I personally would also pick phantasms have fury or retaliation on block for your first major in dueling.

I agree with Kahziel. The staff major is superior to the dueling minor, especially considering it increases clone regen and reduces CA and CS CDs. Remember, CA can cause confusion and CS is an ethereal field, so extra CS means extra CA and confusion projectiles.

Also, the +3-9% damage trait does not affect condition damage and you are wearing condition damage gear. +33% confusion duration does mean extra control vs good players, and a TON of extra damage versus average players. The traits plus +Condition duration food alone means your CoF stacks will last over 5s.

Another good option is to take shatter reset at 50% health. Timed right with Mirror Images and you can double stack CoF for 12-16 stacks of confusion! Not to mention diversion and distortion shatters reset when you may really need them. When I run that trait, I always use both of those early in a fight to gain a tactical advantage since I know they will be back if I get in trouble.

Ah kitten I had intended to already change Illusion III to Illusion V, but I guess I overlooked it, thanks for pointing that out, and wow Gaiawolf that confusion trick is such a great idea.

- The problem I’m now having with shatters is knowing WHEN to shatter. Being a condition build, I figured the majority of my damage would come from Winds of Chaos on the staff, I wouldn’t be using the phantasm much and the rest of the moves are for defense (and clone generation, of course). That being said, I figured I shouldn’t be shattering when I use the staff.. Am I wrong for this assumption?

-If Confusing Combatants (Dueling Grandmaster Trait) doesn’t stack intensity, then it completely blows away what I had hoped to do. Can anyone verify?

- Retaliatory Shield (Dueling III) still has me a bit confused.. When would it proc beyond when I use Chaos Storm? (Which also gives Retaliation.. Starting to see a synergy there). I assumed only Aegis and counter moves were considered blocks.

Edit: … did it really just force me to say kitten instead.. of er, darn?

Knowing when to shatter is one of the hardest parts of moving from an average mesmer to a good mesmer. It really depends on your situation. You have to feel it out, man.

But in general as a condition mesmer, in PVE against slow attacking mobs it’s best to try and keep clones up and only shatter when a) you can immediately put 3 illusions back up, b) when you get in trouble and need some diversion or distorion (and other skills are on CD), c) to finish off a weakened foe, or d) your current targets are about to die, and you’ll lose your illusions anyway.

In PVP it’s much more complicated. All the points from above may apply depending on the situation, but you can also add: e) when the opponent gets in trouble and starts to scramble using escape skills (use CoF or diversion), f) when the opponent is gearing up for a burst or big heal and you need a quick burst to beat him to it, g) when your other skills are off CD so you don’t leave yourself strapped, and h) about another dozen scenarios too specific to nail down.

BTW, getting to know your opponent and their CDs is what helps you go from a good player to a great player.

Welcome to gw2 forum hahaha

Anyway, yes you’ll be shattering with staff as condition, any time I can get three more illusions up instantly (which is pretty much any time with DE and traited for staff) I will consider a shatter.

Oh, and don’t forget your shatters are aoe, your staff clones and phantasm aren’t.

Kazhiel.8194:

Confusion on clone death, and the other traits that say on death, doesn’t work with shatters, only when someone kills your clone.

AFAIK, also works when you replace your clone with another clone.

When would Retaliatory Shield proc besides Chaos Storm?

That’s it in your build AFAIK. If you pick up a OH sword or scepter, it works with the block skills there.

Bear in mind you can get aegis from CS and CA, and you can get CA from CS. It happens often enough to make the trait decent, but I prefer blade training whenever I have a sword. 25% invulnerability uptime is pure awesome, and keeps me alive when I switch out of staff. Sometime I even use BF when outside attack range just for the invuln.

Gaiawolf.8261:

He has sword, too. Keep throwing a few sword clones in there too, and you can strip pretty well. You give up a bit of DPS, but getting rid of his aegis, prot, and regen should more than even that out.

Whenever I see a guard soloing a point I usually swap blink for null field, too. No need to port around so much on a point (esp against a guard), and the extra boon strip/confusion field works great. Though you might be missing blink if enemy help shows up. Ele bunker, that’s another story.

Lol… you make it sound so simple. Then you realise it’s a GS spin-2-win guardian that kitten all your clones as soon as they’re out. You’re taking damage, have no clones to remove boons, and the 3.5s you get from null field on a 45s CD is complete kitten. Plus you can’t shatter because you have no clones to shatter with. GG Guardian wins and all they have to do is spin.

VS Ele at least you have a chance to catch them in their cycle and trip them up.

Clone death traits are ok, but be selective in a shatter build.

The more tedious opponents will have AOEs / pulsing AOEs and will do a reasonably good job of smashing clones.

Edit:

For Shatter timing practice I recommend PvE against champion and/or veteran mobs without special clone-generation capabilities. E.g. no DE, probably no Decoy/MI. Practice maintaining 3 illusions 24×7 while shattering on cooldown. Then add in Decoy. Then MI. Then eventually DE. Preferably while the mob is attacking someone else. Old snow troll farming was great for this tbh.

They key is to get weapon swapping intuitive, and learning the rhythm of summoning illusions, letting them sit, then shatter+resummon. Sustained fights are not summon+Shatter. They are Shatter+resummon.

HAHA! No, anything but simple.

But a GS guardian is a completely different build which requires different tactics.

Wise.8025:

Lol… you make it sound so simple. Then you realise it’s a GS spin-2-win guardian that kitten all your clones as soon as they’re out. You’re taking damage, have no clones to remove boons, and the 3.5s you get from null field on a 45s CD is complete kitten. Plus you can’t shatter because you have no clones to shatter with. GG Guardian wins and all they have to do is spin.

VS Ele at least you have a chance to catch them in their cycle and trip them up.

This is why I said it’s tedious. The more problematic bunker Guardians I’ve fought have been GS and Sword, so they can block range projectiles with the Sword skill, which also has rapid-fire range attacks, and they can AOE clone swarms with GS. On top of that, they can drop fire AOEs if they pack that utility. Typically the builds will be able to re-apply regen / prot / aegis / stability / whateverthehellelse they have pretty often. So getting 1 single strip won’t do a ton.

It comes down to skill because the Mesmer has to time specific things like Blurred Frenzy on their Sword channel (wth was it called again?) — theirs blocks range attacks only, so it’s a good tradeoff. It may also cause them to cancel the channel and back off, making them vulnerable to iWarlock shots or staff clone pew pew.

The Guardian has to time AOEs to kill clones. Mesmer has to get in deep to strip boons to break the Guard’s sustain. Guard has to identify these events and punish.

Shrug, lots of back-and-forth and counterplay, and no auto-wins. Unless the Mesmer is packing the trait to strip boons on shatter kitten.

Edit: Non-GS/Sw ones seem simpler — they are more tanky, but they don’t really do much of anything except not-die. There’s basically 0 threat of them doing anything to you, so they are more “Sword clone leg hump kitten wish I were in WvW so I could use Reaper of Grenth for unremovable Poison to cut healing, where are my Orrian runes”, etc.

Simonoly.4352:

However, in WvW I always used blink with Duelling I (increased manipulation range), so I could use the prestige to fire bomb distant targets.

This is what I use in wvw also, and retaliation on block in pve. Blink ftw

Chaos Archangel.5071:

…The problem I’m now having with shatters is knowing WHEN to shatter…

THIS

the whole really 100% everything this.

you literally have to read your opponents (the player), not the class/build. thats so kittening difficult! but it rewards you with instant (quite) deaths against everyone.
can’t say it for sure but this build has some freacking learning curve.

best fun in pvp (tpvp/wvw) I had since beta1. nothing better than purple clouds hugging that enemy
and those clouds are getting thicker and sicker the longer you play that build, I promise)

fun story: confusion mesmers are my hardest enemies right now :\
they suck!

Tip: I’ve had a much easier time killing builds that rely on boon stacking or condition spamming (d/d eles, guardians, eles, necros) once I started using Null Field.

Not only does it strip multiple boons (provided you place it well), but it will save your life when you get conditions stacked up on you.

Alright, after a week of practice, I can happily say that I LOVE this build and tend to be very effective in fights.

However…

D/D Elementalists feel nearly impossible for me to deal with. Could anyone offer any advice on how a condition build handles them?

I recently posted a condition guide/build for the mesmer:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-WvW-and-PvE-Condition-Build/first#post1350944

In regards to finishing off enemies that run, this build gives you multiple utilities. What I find helpful for disabling/catching enemies are:
- blink
- focus #4 cripple/pull
- chaos storm (chance to chill)
- signet of domination stun (optional).

To finish them after disabling/catching them, sword #3 -> sword #3 -> sword #2 + plus quick roll and 2 clone shatter often works via damage alone or with confusion damage when they try to dodge or use another ability to flee.

I don’t have any much problem catching or finishing runners, except perhaps a stealth heavy thief (but who doesn’t?)

Personally I keep the GS for its CC. I know, GS is not known for it, but yeah. iBerzerker to cripple, knockback to stop someone from stomping a team mate or push thieves out of their shadow refuge, and two illusions on demand.

The 9 stacks of Might don’t hurt either even though staff is my real weapon.

Kanto.1659:

Personally I keep the GS for its CC. I know, GS is not known for it, but yeah. iBerzerker to cripple, knockback to stop someone from stomping a team mate or push thieves out of their shadow refuge, and two illusions on demand.

You would be surprised by the bleed stacking speed from GS clones. It’s way faster than Staff clones. Since iZerker is a whirl animation, it gives you 3-4 bleed stack as well. IMO, it’s better than staff from bleed stacking and damage overall for CD mesmer. I still keep the staff though, for Phase Retreat and Chaos Storm.

I can’t be caught while using my mesmer. I trait for 1200 range 24s CD blink and 4s Decoy and gaining regen/aegis/protection when stealthing. Sometime I run circle around 10-15 man groups to annoy and confuse them. Keep using GS #5 and Focus #4 to keep them away, and use Veil and Mass Invisabillity to enforce your boons and stealth.
SoR were so helpless against me … xD

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Alright, after a week of practice, I can happily say that I LOVE this build and tend to be very effective in fights.

However…

D/D Elementalists feel nearly impossible for me to deal with. Could anyone offer any advice on how a condition build handles them?

had some problems with d/d eles too until I asked in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Team-PZ-Ele-offering-help/first#post1250260

in short: a good timed daze in water attunement = dead d/d ele.
after that I realized how good f3 shatter is, in other fights as well.

Krispera.5087:

Kanto.1659:

Personally I keep the GS for its CC. I know, GS is not known for it, but yeah. iBerzerker to cripple, knockback to stop someone from stomping a team mate or push thieves out of their shadow refuge, and two illusions on demand.

You would be surprised by the bleed stacking speed from GS clones. It’s way faster than Staff clones. Since iZerker is a whirl animation, it gives you 3-4 bleed stack as well. IMO, it’s better than staff from bleed stacking and damage overall for CD mesmer. I still keep the staff though, for Phase Retreat and Chaos Storm.

I don’t deny that it might be good for bleeds; however, you and your staff clones can also apply burns – the most powerful up-front guaranteed condition damage in the game (I say guaranteed because 6 stacks of confusion is about 2.5x more powerful, but requires the target to do something – skill/ability/dodge.) Also, you need to consider the ridiculous stacks of might and constant fury you obtain from you and your staff bounces, which also increases your damage via power and condition damage/fury that is immediately inherited by your active clones. With access to immediate protection (chaos armor) and arguably the best duel support/debilitating tool in the game (chaos storm) aside, I would argue that the staff has a greater potential than the GS for damage in a condition build. But, I echo that a GS can definitely be good for stacking bleeds.

Overall, the gs and staff clones will probably have similar damage, since the staff can also apply vuln. The major difference is the might and fury, but remember that mirror blade will give you significant might stacks very quickly.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Overall, the gs and staff clones will probably have similar damage, since the staff can also apply vuln. The major difference is the might and fury, but remember that mirror blade will give you significant might stacks very quickly.

True indeed – 6 stacks if you trait for Illusionary Elasticity, which is similar to what your winds of chaos will get you with you and clones in a 1v1 situation (6-10) after a little ramp up. Traited for the GS, you can also have similar clone summoning ability to phase retreat on the staff via mirror blade (6s). However, the problem with that is because of the way the trait lines are setup, going 20 into domination is not very conducive to a condition build.

I’m going to do a couple test runs for kicks to see what can reliably get more bleed stacks and kill faster in a 1v1 situation with a condition build – 3 GS or Staff clones. I just wanna see and I’ll post my findings soon.