Guild Wars 2

Fengist.5739:

Oh, and the other reason I like this build so far… I have an 80 ele that I took d/d and nobody told me beforehand that you had to take crack cocaine to effectively play that build. This one I can do quite well with just caffeine and, I hope, achieve the same results.

Yes, well we all know that video game excellence corresponds directly to blood stimulant level. I use a monster IV drip myself…

@Alexparris: This build works fine in PvE. It’s just fine though. It stays alive. It does mediocre damage for the most part. It’s ok. The thing is, by taking this build, you miss out on a ton of utility that other builds can provide for your party, you miss out on a lot of damage you can have without losing much survivability, it’s just overall not as good for PvE because you don’t have to invest so much in survivability in PvE to stay alive and not take damage. It’s total overkill for PvE, and loses damage and group utility in obtaining that level of overkill.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Fengist.5739:

Oh, and the other reason I like this build so far… I have an 80 ele that I took d/d and nobody told me beforehand that you had to take crack cocaine to effectively play that build. This one I can do quite well with just caffeine and, I hope, achieve the same results.

Yes, well we all know that video game excellence corresponds directly to blood stimulant level. I use a monster IV drip myself…

@Alexparris: This build works fine in PvE. It’s just fine though. It stays alive. It does mediocre damage for the most part. It’s ok. The thing is, by taking this build, you miss out on a ton of utility that other builds can provide for your party, you miss out on a lot of damage you can have without losing much survivability, it’s just overall not as good for PvE because you don’t have to invest so much in survivability in PvE to stay alive and not take damage. It’s total overkill for PvE, and loses damage and group utility in obtaining that level of overkill.

Ok, thanks for letting me know. I will probably stick with the Phantasm build for now, as currently helping my partner level her first character, and we can blitz through content this way!

Pyroatheist.9031:

alexparris.3754:

This looks great. Going to give it a go this week. I am about to try your Phantasm build first and see how that plays and then I will be swapping to this. Need to farm some karma and tokens for the Exotic PVT gear, as I don’t have much gold and can only properly afford rares right now

I recommend doing ac runs for the Pvt gear, if you aren’t one of those that equates dungeon running to flaying themselves with a spork (as was an analogy made earlier in this thread). Just make sure you find a couple people who know what they’re doing. Ac really isn’t very tough, despite the large numbers of people complaining about it. You can also get a nearly full set of Pvt gear from orr karma vendors if you have excess karma lying around.

PVT (Invaders) gear from WvW badges works as well.

Would this work with Rares, until I get the PVT Exotic gear, or should I use something else for now?

I did use the phantasm build the other night and jumped into WvW for a few minutes. I think I downed 2 players in around 10 seconds- it was madness, but then a couple of mates came along and blew me up!

I don’t think a tanky build will work as well with rares because rares will not only have less power/toughness/vitality but they also have less defense than their exotic counterparts. Toughness + Defense = Armor (direct damage mitigation)

alexparris.3754:

Would this work with Rares, until I get the PVT Exotic gear, or should I use something else for now?

I did use the phantasm build the other night and jumped into WvW for a few minutes. I think I downed 2 players in around 10 seconds- it was madness, but then a couple of mates came along and blew me up!

Like any build, it won’t operate at maximum effectiveness with rares, but there’s nothing in particular that requires exotics more than any other build.

Any ideas for tPvp optimization? I’m still relatively new so I’m not sure if what I’m doing is kitten or not, but I’ve traded off mirror images with the condition removing mantra to help with the conditions in tPvP since melandru’s alone isn’t shining without your WvW other buffs.

I’ve also thought about replacing melandru’s altogether, but I don’t know. That’s all I could come up with, any ideas Pyro? Or would you say the WvW build you posted is still optimized for tPvp?

Madisonlee.9641:

Any ideas for tPvp optimization? I’m still relatively new so I’m not sure if what I’m doing is kitten or not, but I’ve traded off mirror images with the condition removing mantra to help with the conditions in tPvP since melandru’s alone isn’t shining without your WvW other buffs.

I’ve also thought about replacing melandru’s altogether, but I don’t know. That’s all I could come up with, any ideas Pyro? Or would you say the WvW build you posted is still optimized for tPvp?

Melandru runes are still good if not necessary even in tPvP… I also swap out for mantra of resolve and it really helps keep conditions nailed down…

Madisonlee.9641:

Any ideas for tPvp optimization? I’m still relatively new so I’m not sure if what I’m doing is kitten or not, but I’ve traded off mirror images with the condition removing mantra to help with the conditions in tPvP since melandru’s alone isn’t shining without your WvW other buffs.

I’ve also thought about replacing melandru’s altogether, but I don’t know. That’s all I could come up with, any ideas Pyro? Or would you say the WvW build you posted is still optimized for tPvp?

The melandru runes aren’t quite as potent in sPvP without the food that goes with them, but they’re still far and away the best defensive rune choice you can take. In sPvP for condition removal, I do have to be a bit more careful with landing the whirl finisher properly. Drop the warden, and put temporal curtain right on top of it for a bunch of condition removal. Doing that effectively generally means I don’t need to take additional condition removal.

Other than that, nothing much really changes in tPvP. Some groups will want you to take portal, so drop mirror images for that, but in general you just bunker down on that point and don’t die.

Yeah good point, I’m definitely not utilizing the whirl finisher enough, I just need to get better at that. Thanks for the help

Hi.
I tried out this build last night and tbh I am loving it.
I am fairly new at pvp and I am fairly new at playing mesmer as well, so this might be a really silly question.
I find myself having the most problems with necromancers. Reading through the description of how to deal with the different professions:

1. Necromancer
Would you like your necro well done or extra crispy, sir?

… I asume I am clearly doing something wrong, so here it is:
How do you hold a point in spvp against a necromancer that spams the point with wells and fears you out?

As the OP stated, the build is designed with WvW in mind. It works in sPvP, but not as well. Especially against necro since you lose the -40% duration on conditions. So in sPvP, losing against a condition necro isn’t specially you being bad (at least, not only ;P ), it is also because the build has limited condition removal.
You can win, but it will be way harder than it would be in WvW.

This is true (and thx for the reply ^^).
I was just wondering since pyro posted that the only major issue he had encountered (at least in tpvp) was a knockback engie.
Even if I manage to kill the necro, I don’t see how to without loosing the point in the proccess. I still have a feeling that there is some trick that I don’t know about :P

@Reesha: Elidath is correct to an extent. However, there are a couple other things you can do. Firstly, you can tank the wells. Make sure you have retaliation and a defender out, as well as chaos armor if possible. The wells are weakly ticking aoe attacks, and that will return a ton of retal damage, as well as buff you up nicely with chaos armor.

Necro fears don’t last very long, and Melandru runes make them even shorter. It is unlikely they will actually get you off the point with a fear, especially if you stunbreak it. As for conditions, remember to use the warden + temporal curtain whirl combo for a lot of cleansing as often as possible.

Also remember that you have a knockback/pull as well. You can prevent the necro from entering your point as he can knock you off of it.

Hey Pyro,
I just wanted to say..
First off, great guide. This build and your Mesmerized Podcast made me want to start leveling my mesmer again and drop my glass cannon, full berserker, guardian/ranger.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I will be using this build for smaller fights like you said( less than 10 people on each side ), and Kylia’s glamour build for Zerg vs Zerg.

However, I’m not to sure which would be a better leveling build:
A pure shatter glass cannon build like Osicat? Or your phantasm-supportive build.
I’m trying to hit 80 as fast as I can so I can start gearing up for Immortal build

Thanks!
Flux

Pyroatheist.9031:

remember to use the warden + temporal curtain whirl combo for a lot of cleansing as often as possible. Also remember that you have a knockback/pull as well. You can prevent the necro from entering your point as he can knock you off of it.

This is the part you need to master in tPvP, drop temporal curtain on top of warden, cleans some condi, and then into the void to pull them out, all in a very short time span.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Reesha: Elidath is correct to an extent. However, there are a couple other things you can do. Firstly, you can tank the wells. Make sure you have retaliation and a defender out, as well as chaos armor if possible. The wells are weakly ticking aoe attacks, and that will return a ton of retal damage, as well as buff you up nicely with chaos armor.

Necro fears don’t last very long, and Melandru runes make them even shorter. It is unlikely they will actually get you off the point with a fear, especially if you stunbreak it. As for conditions, remember to use the warden + temporal curtain whirl combo for a lot of cleansing as often as possible.

Also remember that you have a knockback/pull as well. You can prevent the necro from entering your point as he can knock you off of it.

Hmm – I guess I have to be a bit more brave when it comes to ‘standing in fire’ :-) I did not think of actually tanking the well.
Thanks for the reply and for a great guide.

I didn’t mention the cleansing combo because it can be very situationnal. I already use my temporal curtain a lot to get retaliation going, I found I hardly had it ready for on-demand condition cleanse, and even more rarerely the opponent is close enough for the combo to reach me.
It can happen, but I can’t really say I can count on it :/

Elidath.5679:

I didn’t mention the cleansing combo because it can be very situationnal. I already use my temporal curtain a lot to get retaliation going, I found I hardly had it ready for on-demand condition cleanse, and even more rarerely the opponent is close enough for the combo to reach me.
It can happen, but I can’t really say I can count on it :/

In the case of a well necro, they’ll be close enough for that combo, or they won’t be on the point, in which case it won’t really matter.

Hey Pyro,
I wanted to let you know that I tried your build and found it to be not what I am looking for in WvW. But I really love it for sPvP. Even though you can not get the full use of condition duration reduction, it is still tanky enough to stay alive, even 2 or 3 on 1. The retaliation and confusion you apply more than make up for the lack of critical hits. And I like to carry the focus all the time anyway, so it is great to have a build that depends on it.

The one thing about this build is it really does not seem to benefit from any particular sigil. I tried the ones you recommend, but I can not say that they make or break the build. All of the ones that gives benefits on kill stacking or critical hit just don’t really add much.

I still have to learn all the ways to use fields and finishers, but for now, I think I have found my build. I do swap the Defender in and out for Portal depending on the map. Overall, this build makes me feel like a Mesmer.

Hello everyone.
I’ve been using this build in sPVP for a bit now and I’m gathering gear to try out general PVE and WvWvW.
So far I’m enjoying it a lot
One thing that bothers me it’s the Temporal Curtain + Illusionary Leap Combo, I can’t seem to quite master it yet.
I’m assuming it has some sort of range, and it’s not the IL range, because I’ve already tried to do the combo at the IL range limit, and it doesn’t proc the Retaliation on me.
Can anyone explain to me where I’m failing, and what’s the limitations of it?
Thank you.

@mecca: You need to be standing directly on the line in order for the combo to successfully activate. Stand on the line, leap, and then swap. You can actually activate the leap even if your target is out of range. It will still proc the first leap combo, even though you won’t get a clone or a swap.

Hi Pyroatheist!
Thanks for the quick reply, I shall try it that way then
Cheers!

In the latest April SoTG they mentioned they’re gonna nerf light fields retaliation combos. This will have a massive impact on gameplay

bhagwad.4281:

In the latest April SoTG they mentioned they’re gonna nerf light fields retaliation combos. This will have a massive impact on gameplay

I watched it, and they didn’t exactly say that. They were referring specifically to blast combos, I’m fairly certain (due to the focus on the aoe team utility retaliation). It’s possible that they’ll nerf the leap combo, but I wouldn’t count on it. However, even if they do, it would have to be a really hefty nerf to drop this build below 100% uptime on retal.

I’m more interested in the passing mention they made of nerfing retaliation to sPvP levels…since there’s no difference between retal in sPvP and WvW. I’m thinking it was a slip of the tongue, but it’ll be interesting to see. I’ll also be looking forward to the new damage visuals, as those could be fun.

The biggest hit to this build instantly though, is the confusion nerf. This build has always been less effective in sPvP at killing things since confusion hits like a wet noodle. Now that confusion hits like a wet noodle in WvW too, it’ll inherit the same difficulties.

I honestly think that they made a massive mistake with the confusion nerf. There’s a reason that no one runs confusion builds in sPvP, and that reason is that confusion in sPvP is horrific. It does so little damage no one even has to care about it, it’s a non-issue. Now they’ve made it so that it is the same in WvW. They’ve completely destroyed a set of builds (glamour), and significantly nerfed a lot of condition focused playstyles for mesmer in WvW.

I only play Tpvp and yeah confusion sucks ;-; Sorry to hear they’re gonna kill it for you in WvW too

Of my three builds, this one is the only one that really took a noticeable hit from the patch. The retaliation change is inconsequential, I’ve noticed no difference. The confusion change hurts, as it removes a lot of the burst potential that this build had.

As of right now, I recommend no changes in the basic build. I will be experimenting with possible alternatives to mirror images now that its utility for bursting confusion is no longer as strong as it used to be, but again, that needs testing.

The lack of confusion damage will be noticed and missed, but ultimately this build remains just as viable as previously.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Of my three builds, this one is the only one that really took a noticeable hit from the patch. The retaliation change is inconsequential, I’ve noticed no difference. The confusion change hurts, as it removes a lot of the burst potential that this build had.

As of right now, I recommend no changes in the basic build. I will be experimenting with possible alternatives to mirror images now that its utility for bursting confusion is no longer as strong as it used to be, but again, that needs testing.

The lack of confusion damage will be noticed and missed, but ultimately this build remains just as viable as previously.

I’d like to thank you for this guide its truly an amazing build that fits my play style perfectly. I’ve almost perfected all this builds techniques that I’ve yet to lose at a 1 on 1. Perfect build that’s allowed me to roam WvW alone and win many battles I’m which I’ve been out numbered. Im in love with my Mesmer because if

I tried the same build in spvp due to the rumors of confusion and retaliation nerf an I’ve got to agree that it is still a viable build. Nerf wasn’t so bad just a bit less burst now but still able to kill nonetheless.

yep. i rly sad about nerf this build. early i can easy control the battle with this epic build. now need to be very smart if u dont wanna die in 15 sec

I’m a little confused about the retal nerf in WvW to Spvp levels, as I don’t play Wvw, but I thought there was no difference previously?

Also yeah I had swapped out mirror images a while ago for one of our condition removing skills because I didn’t feel like in Spvp mirror images was helping all that much, and I felt I needed the extra condition help because whirl finisher isn’t always on demand. So for tpvp the switch is a no brainer, but for Wvw where melandru’s + food makes conditions a non issue, I’d have a tougher choice on what to replace mirror images with

Madisonlee.9641:

I’m a little confused about the retal nerf in WvW to Spvp levels, as I don’t play Wvw, but I thought there was no difference previously?

Also yeah I had swapped out mirror images a while ago for one of our condition removing skills because I didn’t feel like in Spvp mirror images was helping all that much, and I felt I needed the extra condition help because whirl finisher isn’t always on demand. So for tpvp the switch is a no brainer, but for Wvw where melandru’s + food makes conditions a non issue, I’d have a tougher choice on what to replace mirror images with

Apparently retaliation damage is lower in spvp. That being said, I’ve noticed no difference in retal damage compared to pre-patch values.

Other choices for replacing mirror images are mimic (I run this in zergs very often), blink, arcane thievery, feedback…I mean, most of our utilities are great. There’s a lot of choices for replacement here.

hello, just wanted to comment on how much I love this build. Mesmer has been my main since the 3 day head start and I had mostly been running gc or power builds until I decided to look into bunker/retal a few months ago. must say tis is by far the greatest solo roam build imo. just had a nice 1v3 with myself against 2 guardians and an ele, killed the ele and one guard, and the other guard ran away. thank you so much for posting this, lots of fun

after this epic patch, i change a lil build. remove retalation from build and give more dmg from phantasm, still unbeatble vs thieves, but need more test

drongas.4189:

after this epic patch, i change a lil build. remove retalation from build and give more dmg from phantasm, still unbeatble vs thieves, but need more test

Retaliation IS this build. What you have there is some form of a phantasm build, not related in any way, shape, or form to this tank build.

Pyroatheist, I need advice on my new to mesmer, I would soon be levels 80, but I still hesitate on the build.

I am mainly going to make of the roamer, then I do not know if i can use your build (retaliation) or my build PVP (shatter: 20/20/0/0/30)

It is a good idea to roam to berserker armor?

Sorry for my english, i need your help/advice, thanks.

Reckless.2439:

Pyroatheist, I need advice on my new to mesmer, I would soon be levels 80, but I still hesitate on the build.

I am mainly going to make of the roamer, then I do not know if i can use your build (retaliation) or my build PVP (shatter: 20/20/0/0/30)

It is a good idea to roam to berserker armor?

Sorry for my english, i need your help/advice, thanks.

You can roam with either my build or a more offensive zerker armor build. They both work. I prefer my build, of course, because it has much more survivability. If I run I to 5 or 6 people, I’ll probably survive, whereas a zerker build would have a very difficult time of doing so.

First off, thanks for this build Pyro. I was running something similar, so I gave it a shot, and (with a few very minor tweaks) I’m loving it! I’m still missing some gear, but I just destroyed a guardian while tanking camp guards/scouts and he barely even touched me….it was awesome.

My question is, in addition to my solo roaming, I often run in guild groups of various sizes (anywhere from 2-15, depending on who’s on, but most often it’s around 4). Do you run with groups using this build, and if so, what do you change?

My initial thought would be to just switch out my utility skills for something like:

Decoy —> Null Field (or portal, depending on the situation)
iDefender —> Feedback

I’m curious what your thoughts on this are. Do you change any traits for groups? Thanks again!

Zumi.6384:

First off, thanks for this build Pyro. I was running something similar, so I gave it a shot, and (with a few very minor tweaks) I’m loving it! I’m still missing some gear, but I just destroyed a guardian while tanking camp guards/scouts and he barely even touched me….it was awesome.

My question is, in addition to my solo roaming, I often run in guild groups of various sizes (anywhere from 2-15, depending on who’s on, but most often it’s around 4). Do you run with groups using this build, and if so, what do you change?

My initial thought would be to just switch out my utility skills for something like:

Decoy —> Null Field (or portal, depending on the situation)
iDefender --> Feedback

I’m curious what your thoughts on this are. Do you change any traits for groups? Thanks again!

In groups, my first change is dropping the defender for blink. The defender is more or less useless in group fights, and the added mobility by blink is really key.

I’ll actually tend to drop mirror images before decoy, but what I replace it with depends. I’ll often replace it with mimic, which is a great skill that sorta allows you to facetank large numbers of people, but sometimes feedback does a better job. In organized zerg situations, sometimes it will be appropriate to replace it with portal or veil, depending on what strategies you are using.

Hi Pyro,

Would like to ask is the “Immortal build” still viable after the patch? How would u say the advantages of this compared to the overpowered phantasm PvP Build.

Thanks.

happynow.7190:

Hi Pyro,

Would like to ask is the “Immortal build” still viable after the patch? How would u say the advantages of this compared to the overpowered phantasm PvP Build.

Thanks.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Immortal-Mesmer-Build/page/9#post1932189

The phantasm build is a dueling build, that might get shoehorned into some tPvP. It is not great in group fights, and horrific in large fights where phantasms get killed.

So with the confusion nerf I was still able to kill people but it was definitely a bit harder. However, because I couldn’t spike damage out with it I decided to take this the other way. I switched out all my soldiers gear for Sentenel’s gear. I have 208 less power which hardly affects my damage at all since retaliation still hits for 330 instead of 357 if you use the damage calculations. However, the Sentinel gear gives me 3 more toughness (WOOT) and 226 more vitality which brings my HP up from 25,939 to 28,375 which is a pretty big difference when even glass cannon thieves can’t spike me with back-stab for more than about 3.5k.

I have been holding camps much easier and when actually trying to kill people it has been longer but easier. Because of being even more tanky usually I can either simply out last them and eventually kill them or because the battles last longer wait for them to make a mistake and take advantage of that.

On top of that I never took Mendure’s Purity before and withe extra HP I feel even safer without it and totally happy with 20% more HP for my iDefender. ^^

I really do enjoy the Sentinel gear much more for my tweeked version of this that I run. ^^ Just a thought.

I should mention that I use an Ascended Solider/Solider Amulet and one Ring still though, so not FULL Sentinel’s stats .

@Hexxen: I’m not sure defender inherits your hp…in fact I’m pretty sure it doesn’t.

Other than that, yeah. I’m going to get a full set of sentinel’s as well, excluding trinkets. I’m now completely running ascended gear, 2 rings, ammy, back, 2 accessories, so I’m not going to change that. I’m thinking I might stick with Ptv for normal fighting and whatnot, and switch to Vtp for portalbombing/zerg situations, but I’ll have to just test it out.

When I mentioned iDefender I didn’t mean it to sound like I thought it got any of your HP I know that it doesn’t. I was saying that with even more HP from this set I felt even safer not taking the Mendure’s Purity trait and instead taking the +20% HP trait for Phantasms which I have been doing the whole time really just feel even better about it now.

Hey !! I am running mesmer trait Mender’s purity in inspiration IV with Saffron-scented poultry soup as food… removes condition on heal .. Now other than buffs like regeneration, strictly speaking, say no buff is on, you have 2 conditions on you and the food is not on 10 seconds cool down.. and you heal.. will it remove one or both the conditions? ..
thanks a loads.
Lucem.

Lucem Ferre.9205:

Hey !! I am running mesmer trait Mender’s purity in inspiration IV with Saffron-scented poultry soup as food… removes condition on heal .. Now other than buffs like regeneration, strictly speaking, say no buff is on, you have 2 conditions on you and the food is not on 10 seconds cool down.. and you heal.. will it remove one or both the conditions? ..
thanks a loads.
Lucem.

I believe that it will remove two conditions. However, lemongrass poultry soup is a better choice in very nearly every situation, because the -40% condition duration is far better than 1 condition removal every 10 seconds.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Lucem Ferre.9205:

Hey !! I am running mesmer trait Mender’s purity in inspiration IV with Saffron-scented poultry soup as food… removes condition on heal .. Now other than buffs like regeneration, strictly speaking, say no buff is on, you have 2 conditions on you and the food is not on 10 seconds cool down.. and you heal.. will it remove one or both the conditions? ..
thanks a loads.
Lucem.

Update: Tested it.. it works.. you can see actually first condition getting removed and may be after a say 1/10th of a second later, the 2nd condition gets removed.
I believe that it will remove two conditions. However, lemongrass poultry soup is a better choice in very nearly every situation, because the -40% condition duration is far better than 1 condition removal every 10 seconds.

Hey Mate ! Thanks so much for quick reply .. I totally agree with -40% condition duration.. no argument there, just testing some other stuff, for that, I just cant confirm this on my own as in pvp one cant use foods.. so was trying to see if 2 conditions get removed with mender’s purity trait and saffron poultry soup.. any idea which mobs can load 2 conditions which last for say upto 3 secs or such to test? thanks.

This was probably already asked, but why not use the pvp carrion amulet for condition, power and vitality. The build uses alot of confusion condition dmg

Hexs.8015:

This was probably already asked, but why not use the pvp carrion amulet for condition, power and vitality. The build uses alot of confusion condition dmg

Carrion amulet would sacrifice toughness that this build depends on.

Hexs.8015:

This was probably already asked, but why not use the pvp carrion amulet for condition, power and vitality. The build uses alot of confusion condition dmg

For sPvP, retaliation is bugged on phantasms. It does not scale properly with power. Instead, it deals a set amount of damage different for each phantasms. While this means that stacking power is no longer helpful, it also means that stacking power is no longer necessary.

I replace the soldier’s amulet with a cleric’s amulet. I lose vitality, but gain a massive amount of healing power. With that amulet, ether feast heals for an enormous amount, and regen ticks for 270. It’s quite fantastic.

Pyro, this is very well put together guide. I recently started playing mesmer using Osicat’s Shattercat Mist 2.0 build and i’ve been having a blast in sPvP and WvW. Though, since i’m new to the class I didn’t want to just expose myself to just one type of build. When I saw yours, it seemed more well suited to my play style. I went ahead and got a whole new armor set and trinkets for this build today and then spent a few hours in sPvP. So far i’ve found that while I do enjoy the shatter build, i’m more effective running your immortal build. I had a successful duel with a mesmer that I would have normally lost with a shatter build. I look forward to doing some tPvP to really get the hang of things.

Also, for anyone who wants to try this but doesn’t have the laurels for ascended trinkets or the dungeon tokens for all PVT gear, i’ll link my modified version of the build which uses only exotics below. I was able to get pretty close to Pyro’s stats.

http://tinyurl.com/pj5dnet