Guild Wars 2

PAX East Dev Talk:

Mesmer specialization should shake up the sPvP landscape the most.

Reliable illusionless direct damage? Trading utilities and versatility for DpS? AoE attacks for increasing amounts of zerging mobs in new PvE content? Reliable speed for enjoyable exploration?

No thanks, no need to “fill missing class roles with specialisations” for mesmers. More control, more lockdowns, more conditions and more of everything which makes next to no sense in PvE, to which bosses are immune 95% of time, and which is easily replaced by one might-prestacking rotation and a heavy AoE attack.

Some may say that it’s to soon to judge based on some random data from reddit… but I would totally not be surprised when mesmers get the same good-on-paper, frustrating-in-reality PvP-focused approach… and then left to be only useful in annoying newbies who can’t tell a mesmer apart from a clone.

I think what they meant is that between Mesmer changes in general and the Chronomancer spec, we’re causing existent PvP paradigms to break down in HoT.

That actually sounds really good. Tentatively hopeful about Mesmers becoming less about damage and more about raw disabling and debuffing again, now.

I will be honest, all that I want is more lockdown and control, a reliable daze on a very low cooldown will have me jumping for joy.

Carighan.6758:

I think what they meant is that between Mesmer changes in general and the Chronomancer spec, we’re causing existent PvP paradigms to break down in HoT.

That actually sounds really good. Tentatively hopeful about Mesmers becoming less about damage and more about raw disabling and debuffing again, now.

what’s so good about it? It’s not like currently Mesmers do best damage in game, and survivability against thieves is a joke. It doesn’t matter about damage and disabling/debuffing capabilities when you lose 75% of your health from a burst that thieves unleash out of stealth.

What sounds good about it is that based on what they’re saying, Mesmers are going to be put back into the “meta” for PvP. It’s all pure speculation but at least take that away from what was said.

Mesmers are gods for pug dungeons and ranging world bosses, and pretty much any open-world stuff you can kill in one shatter burst. You don’t have to be top tier at every single thing.

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmers are gods for pug dungeons and ranging world bosses, and pretty much any open-world stuff you can kill in one shatter burst. You don’t have to be top tier at every single thing.

nor am I (or others that have negative thoughts) expect to be. But in reality, Mesmer doesn’t take #1 in ANY aspect of the game, while other classes do, sometimes even in more areas than others.

Mesmer is my #1 pick for pugging Fractals and Arah actually. Although I don’t do that very often now because of the pro-griefer changes.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

Chaos you show a little to much faith… I myself though, have my dreams, of a time where mesmer in a control orientated build has a life outside of PVP

Zarathustra.1458:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

Chaos you show a little to much faith… I myself though, have my dreams, of a time where mesmer in a control orientated build has a life outside of PVP

Its not faith, its fact.

We’ve heard nothing but potential good news for Mesmer in the upcoming patch. Taking the quote “Mesmers specialization is gonna change PvP” and turning it into a QQ thread seems really out there to me.

So far we’ve heard of a potential for burst builds outside of PvP, a defiance change to bosses that looks pretty beneficial for us (and may possibly make Power Block not so terrible), and now word that our specialization is intended to be pretty impactful in PvP.

The only cause for worry is the already-established lack of faith in the devs, but not the good news we’ve been receiving.

I guess on my part the lack of faith I have in the devs makes me concerned. I am just dreading actually looking forward to changes and having that rug ripped out from under me. All said, if they actually carry through with their implications of encouraging a meta mesmer control build I will be the first to turn in my membership to the happy dev flaming society…

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Zarathustra.1458:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

Chaos you show a little to much faith… I myself though, have my dreams, of a time where mesmer in a control orientated build has a life outside of PVP

Its not faith, its fact.

We’ve heard nothing but potential good news for Mesmer in the upcoming patch. Taking the quote “Mesmers specialization is gonna change PvP” and turning it into a QQ thread seems really out there to me.

So far we’ve heard of a potential for burst builds outside of PvP, a defiance change to bosses that looks pretty beneficial for us (and may possibly make Power Block not so terrible), and now word that our specialization is intended to be pretty impactful in PvP.

The only cause for worry is the already-established lack of faith in the devs, but not the good news we’ve been receiving.

Chaos, I love your optimism and I hate to do this to you, but here we go.

I’m going to quote one of your posts. It’s actually the OP of a thread called Power Lock & the “Pure Lockdown” Mesmer. It’s dated March 24th, 2014.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

So, apparently, the devs do pay attention to our class forums. I’m like 90% positive that the lockdown buffs we’re seeing are a direct result of the lockdown mesmer initiative we’ve started here in the Mesmer subforum….

…I wanted to take a look at the exciting new Domination trait Power Lock and how it’ll affect the Lockdown Mesmer in the future. …

…Whatever the case, it’s likely April 15th will see a surge in new fresh-faced lockdown Mesmer.

Ok, now we’ll fastforward precisely 24 days. You created another post, this one was called [To Devs] Save Power Block!. It was made on April 17th, 2014.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Please don’t leave us with another useless trait…

We know how this one turned out.

This is why when Anet says ‘Mesmer changes are going to be awesome and shake up the PvP landscape!’, I say ‘I don’t believe you.’ Time and time again we’ve been excited only to have a fast one pulled on us and have cool stuff ruined. This is why literally anything Anet does will be viewed as a hostile action towards mesmers unless absolutely proven otherwise. Why so many of us are pessimistic about this expansion, and why we really doubt that mesmer is truly going to get anything good with it. At this point, based on what I know, I’m definitely seeing the expansion to be a one-and-done type of deal that I play through and quit again because mesmer got nothing.

I’m viewing the expansion as a way to determine if I’m going to maintain mesmer as my main. If not then back to guardian or see how revenant plays out.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmers are gods for pug dungeons and ranging world bosses

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmer is my #1 pick

Here, you said it yourself – it’s your pick and not a “god for pug dungeons”. Mesmer is as much god as a bearbow ranger. If anything, it’s either guardian which can outheal awful clueless zerker wannabes, or an ele which can buff the party and output the damage required for the party not to wipe before the 2 obvious dodges run out.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

For PvP and the comparatively small, but vocal community of this subforum? Yes.

For PvE? No, since we all know that mesmers will be overnerfed (because ANET-MESMERS-OP-QQ-PLS-NERF) to the extent of being overshadowed by other classes in PvE all over again.

At this point I have no strong feelings one way or the other. :p

Just going to wait and see.

I’m baffled that people want the specialization to be focused on lock down and interrupts, we already have the skills, traits and an entire trait line dedicated to that type of gameplay, not saying it still doesn’t need work done to it, I’m just saying the basics are their in the base class. If specializations are supposed to fill in holes in the class then it needs to focus on PvE and we need more reliable damage and better defensive options more then anything else (quite frankly we need practically everything) especially as the expansion is mostly focusing on PvE.

Fay.2357:

This is why when Anet says ‘Mesmer changes are going to be awesome and shake up the PvP landscape!’, I say ‘I don’t believe you.’ Time and time again we’ve been excited only to have a fast one pulled on us and have cool stuff ruined. This is why literally anything Anet does will be viewed as a hostile action towards mesmers unless absolutely proven otherwise. Why so many of us are pessimistic about this expansion, and why we really doubt that mesmer is truly going to get anything good with it. At this point, based on what I know, I’m definitely seeing the expansion to be a one-and-done type of deal that I play through and quit again because mesmer got nothing.

Pyro you wouldn’t be you if ya didn’t run up out of nowhere and dropkick me off my horse. =P

But here’s how I look at it: Power block sounded great on paper, and I do feel that the trait would not have come about if not from some input to the Mesmer community, similar to when we got Confounding Suggestions buffed:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

/grumble

Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)

All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.

I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.

Thanks for the feedback. We had the same discussion internally on that one. Back in alpha/beta, there were lockdown Mesmer builds that COULD keep someone down for 6-7 seconds…and it was brutal.

We’re afraid to go back to that, but as you can tell with these changes, we do want to augment the current Mesmer’s efficacy in regard to shutdown. It can just be scary if we go too high with it…..so we’ll think this one over some more.

So many quotes! But anyways, they were going to change CS from “50% chance for a daze to turn into a 1s stun” into “25% daze duration increase.” And because of our feedback (seriously, ours, not just my one post which wouldn’t have even made it there if not prompted by another) we got both effects merged.

If you want my honest opinion of what I’m realistically expecting?

• Of the entire new traitline, maybe 3-4 actually valuable traits.
• Of the 5 new utility sills (including elite) maybe 1-2 that I’ll actually use.
• Hype for dat shield tho. Sorry.

I don’t expect the expansion to be as game changing as advertised, and I completely understand pessimism and cynicism, especially with so many reasons to feel that way, but I cannot agree with turning any and all trace of potential good news into a reason to bash the devs and cry foul over future content that we know next to nothing about.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

For PvP and the comparatively small, but vocal community of this subforum? Yes.

For PvE? No, since we all know that mesmers will be overnerfed (because ANET-MESMERS-OP-QQ-PLS-NERF) to the extent of being overshadowed by other classes in PvE all over again.

See this is what I’m talking about…

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

For PvP and the comparatively small, but vocal community of this subforum? Yes.

For PvE? No, since we all know that mesmers will be overnerfed (because ANET-MESMERS-OP-QQ-PLS-NERF) to the extent of being overshadowed by other classes in PvE all over again.

See this is what I’m talking about…

You have to admit though, mesmer often has found itself being made increasingly nerfed in pve as a consequence of pvp orientated changes. Furthermore, there is excellent form for Anet to over reach when attempting to balance mesmer skills and trait, off the top of my head, sword 2 skill, that awesome leap that then became the mess of a thing that I still cannot use reliably.( I remember using it as a mobility skill back in beta.), glamour traits and I will not even get started on the topic of power block, as that single trait has caused me on more than one occasion to lose my marbles and begin hurling abuse… All of this considered has a lot of people terrified. When anet says that things will be shaken up in pvp by the mesmer spec, I feel that there is a justified reason for people to be concerned that the inevitable clawing back will leave the class in an even worse state than it was originally. It is just like all those bugfixes we get that do not work and manage to break even more skills.

I’m calling it now, the defiance change will be as effective at bringing interupt and lockdown builds into PvE as the crit damage nerf was at removing the zerker meta and the massive might nerfs were at bringing cele eles down to a reasonable level.

Levetty.1279:

I’m calling it now, the defiance change will be as effective at bringing interupt and lockdown builds into PvE as the crit damage nerf was at removing the zerker meta and the massive might nerfs were at bringing cele eles down to a reasonable level.

We thought that when it was found that power block went through defiance…. Sadly, for anet, it was decided it was better to return to the zerker meta than run the risk of letting mesmers interrupt dungeon bosses…

Lishtenbird.2814:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmers are gods for pug dungeons and ranging world bosses

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmer is my #1 pick

Here, you said it yourself – it’s your pick and not a “god for pug dungeons”. Mesmer is as much god as a bearbow ranger. If anything, it’s either guardian which can outheal awful clueless zerker wannabes, or an ele which can buff the party and output the damage required for the party not to wipe before the 2 obvious dodges run out.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.

Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.

For PvP and the comparatively small, but vocal community of this subforum? Yes.

For PvE? No, since we all know that mesmers will be overnerfed (because ANET-MESMERS-OP-QQ-PLS-NERF) to the extent of being overshadowed by other classes in PvE all over again.

If I pick it it IS good. That’s the point. Mesmer carries pugs through half the Arah skips and boss fights and breezes through Lupi who is the big pug killer. Back before Anet broke the LFG I used to do P1 by soloing the Ooze, portaling people through to Entities, portaling wipers to Shoggroth, carrying Lupi with reflects, then soloing Stargazer.

I’d like to see how your ele manages groups that can’t even skip the part after ooze in a group, much less solo.

Rome.7124:

what’s so good about it? It’s not like currently Mesmers do best damage in game, and survivability against thieves is a joke. It doesn’t matter about damage and disabling/debuffing capabilities when you lose 75% of your health from a burst that thieves unleash out of stealth.

Because my ideal for Mesmers never has us as viable damage dealers. That’s not what I want the char to be, I could play plenty other chars for that (another of my issues, though less so, is that there’s no real reason to prefer a class over another, ultimately they’re too samey).

Think of some GW1 abilities, or even look to other games. Range reductions, anti-stealth debuffs, various kinds of feedback damage or debuffs. Say every time target player uses an ability which moves them, they get moved the wrong direction instead. I think those thieves will be a weeeeee bit frustrated. :P

Carighan.6758:

Say every time target player uses an ability which moves them, they get moved the wrong direction instead. I think those thieves will be a weeeeee bit frustrated. :P

The crying this would generate would dwarf everything else we’ve previously seen. It would get removed in a week, and the devs would apologize to everyone for accidentally giving mesmers something interesting.

Fay.2357:

The crying this would generate would dwarf everything else we’ve previously seen. It would get removed in a week, and the devs would apologize to everyone for accidentally giving mesmers something interesting.

I can do better! A weapon which’s auto-attack tags a target so that their next auto-attack hits a friendly target (their friend) in range instead of the intended target.

In other words instead of dealing damage myself, as long as I attack someone I’ll cause them to attack their teammates.

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

The crying this would generate would dwarf everything else we’ve previously seen. It would get removed in a week, and the devs would apologize to everyone for accidentally giving mesmers something interesting.

I can do better! A weapon which’s auto-attack tags a target so that their next auto-attack hits a friendly target (their friend) in range instead of the intended target.

In other words instead of dealing damage myself, as long as I attack someone I’ll cause them to attack their teammates.

RIP Wandering Eye

Oh what I wouldn’t give for interrupt based conditions that trigger if they do anything within 4 seconds…

That would be sweet. We could use the new taunt to get a target to attack his teammate. !!!!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I’d like to see how your ele manages groups that can’t even skip the part after ooze in a group, much less solo.

I get that quite often. What do I do? Make the run on my own (harpy feathers op) and then just watch a tv show while party tries to make the run.

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

I don’t see much reason for optimism. Anet has no clue what to do with mesmers so they keep on trying and swinging their bat, hoping they’ll hit the mark at some point.

As for mesmers in PvE… Sure, we play it because it’s the profession we picked and enjoy playing but in all honesty, it’s not carrying any group anywhere.

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

I think that your perspective of “gods for pug dungeons” is kinda skewed.

“Soloing stuff (and giving away for free to party members)” =/= “Improving overall team performance to meet the encounter requirements”. For first, yes indeed mesmer is a good option; for second, there are way better options.

Zenith.7301:

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

I know the feel. In my early days, I had to slot in Mass Invisibility for skips in TA instead of Time Warp. People were not happy about it. What could I reply? “You rush and never help, I kinda die otherwise.”

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Um, a guardian just slaps on retreat+stand your ground+purging flames with condi clear on shout and he can carry any group through any run in Arah. Good for you that you can do the run solor whiole they wait and then portal them, it’s about the same time as a guardian or thief runs the group through with aegis/stability or stealth.

And any class can solo Arah p1 it’s not a mesmer exclusive skill.

Then you have fractal 50 in which mesmer is unarguably worse than a guardian or thief, and hell guardian and thief are better in pretty much most instances for carrying a group, especially in colosus with blind spam and aegis and higher uptime on reflects when mesmer illusions are getting massacred.

Not that it’s much of a plus to a mesmer. Carrying is not something most people want to do.

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Um, a guardian just slaps on retreat+stand your ground+purging flames with condi clear on shout and he can carry any group through any run in Arah. Good for you that you can do the run solor whiole they wait and then portal them, it’s about the same time as a guardian or thief runs the group through with aegis/stability or stealth.

And any class can solo Arah p1 it’s not a mesmer exclusive skill.

Then you have fractal 50 in which mesmer is unarguably worse than a guardian or thief, and hell guardian and thief are better in pretty much most instances for carrying a group, especially in colosus with blind spam and aegis and higher uptime on reflects when mesmer illusions are getting massacred.

Not that it’s much of a plus to a mesmer. Carrying is not something most people want to do.

I’d love to see your guardian help a pack of idiots run through a pack of illusionists or oozes with just those three skills.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Um, a guardian just slaps on retreat+stand your ground+purging flames with condi clear on shout and he can carry any group through any run in Arah. Good for you that you can do the run solor whiole they wait and then portal them, it’s about the same time as a guardian or thief runs the group through with aegis/stability or stealth.

And any class can solo Arah p1 it’s not a mesmer exclusive skill.

Then you have fractal 50 in which mesmer is unarguably worse than a guardian or thief, and hell guardian and thief are better in pretty much most instances for carrying a group, especially in colosus with blind spam and aegis and higher uptime on reflects when mesmer illusions are getting massacred.

Not that it’s much of a plus to a mesmer. Carrying is not something most people want to do.

I’d love to see your guardian help a pack of idiots run through a pack of illusionists or oozes with just those three skills.

If the people you choose to waste your time with are that bad, maybe you should reconsider the runs you do.

Zenith.7301:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

A reply along the lines of “HoT specialisations for mesmer are primarily aimed at improving PvE experience” could’ve been made even at an sPvP event – if it actually was the case.

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Um, a guardian just slaps on retreat+stand your ground+purging flames with condi clear on shout and he can carry any group through any run in Arah. Good for you that you can do the run solor whiole they wait and then portal them, it’s about the same time as a guardian or thief runs the group through with aegis/stability or stealth.

And any class can solo Arah p1 it’s not a mesmer exclusive skill.

Then you have fractal 50 in which mesmer is unarguably worse than a guardian or thief, and hell guardian and thief are better in pretty much most instances for carrying a group, especially in colosus with blind spam and aegis and higher uptime on reflects when mesmer illusions are getting massacred.

Not that it’s much of a plus to a mesmer. Carrying is not something most people want to do.

I’d love to see your guardian help a pack of idiots run through a pack of illusionists or oozes with just those three skills.

If the people you choose to waste your time with are that bad, maybe you should reconsider the runs you do.

Sounds like you don’t run pugs in Arah very often. Or dungeons very much at all, if “skipped through CM without help” is your crowning achievement on ele.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Um, a guardian just slaps on retreat+stand your ground+purging flames with condi clear on shout and he can carry any group through any run in Arah. Good for you that you can do the run solor whiole they wait and then portal them, it’s about the same time as a guardian or thief runs the group through with aegis/stability or stealth.

And any class can solo Arah p1 it’s not a mesmer exclusive skill.

Then you have fractal 50 in which mesmer is unarguably worse than a guardian or thief, and hell guardian and thief are better in pretty much most instances for carrying a group, especially in colosus with blind spam and aegis and higher uptime on reflects when mesmer illusions are getting massacred.

Not that it’s much of a plus to a mesmer. Carrying is not something most people want to do.

I’d love to see your guardian help a pack of idiots run through a pack of illusionists or oozes with just those three skills.

If the people you choose to waste your time with are that bad, maybe you should reconsider the runs you do.

Sounds like you don’t run pugs in Arah very often. Or dungeons very much at all, if “skipped through CM without help” is your crowning achievement on ele.

Who said it was a crowning achievement, you’re just trolling and quite frankly I’m not surprised you’re running pugs so often, as insufferable a kitten you seem to be I don’t think there are many people that would tolerate your sullen kitten for long.

Sitting on several cacti seems more pleasant than carrying a conversation with you right now.

Carighan.6758:

Say every time target player uses an ability which moves them, they get moved the wrong direction instead. I think those thieves will be a weeeeee bit frustrated. :P

that would have been an awesome mechanic for confusion

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Zenith.7301:

Since when can’t an ele manage? You got a metric ton of condi cleanses, ether renewal makes you immune to cripple spam unlike a mesmer, and if it gets really bad you just take arcane shield+mist form+ lightning flash and d/f for obsidian flesh.

On my ele I joined a run in progress for CM, the thief didn’t seem interested in coming to stealth me through, so I ran all the way from the bridge area to the endboss zone and barely suffered a scratch.

Mesmer is literally one of the worst classes to make easy runs with on a bad group, everyone likes to run ahead of you and with your limited access to speed boosts without using outside objects, it’s very easy to get put in combat run speed with a short, kittenty curtain swiftness.

And I don’t even understand how Guang can say mesmers make the best world bosses range class when the phantasms die immediately before they even do damage to Tequatl and they don’t even bother attacking objects like Jormag’s ice wall.

With that said, as much as mesmers may sufefr in PvE, the OP made a critical mistake:

Context. That statement was given in the context of an spvp centered event. Of course they’re gonna talk spvp to people in tournaments and demos.

It is true that unfortunately too much skill balancing has been done for spvp and WvW without caring for the consequences in PvE, but you have two options — you give up on the chance that the developers might do something right for a change, or you wait and see. Either way, if you’re so sure the outcome will be bad, you always have the option to not play.

In GW1 mesmers waited a very, VERY long set of years before they were revamped into usefulness.

CM isn’t Arah. I’m not talking about doing the bare minimum and running through and afking for 30 minutes while the rest of the party attempts the skip and fails repeatedly, I’m talking about helping them through it so I can avoid exactly that. Mesmer can solo clear all the turrets before Ooze they don’t wipe the bads, then portal everyone from the WP to Entities, then from the WP to Shoggroth if necessary. Then you can easily solo Stargazer, not to mention they make Lupi go much faster with pugs and generally have lots of options to escape being domed or shadowstepped by pugs trying to range Lupi.

Um, a guardian just slaps on retreat+stand your ground+purging flames with condi clear on shout and he can carry any group through any run in Arah. Good for you that you can do the run solor whiole they wait and then portal them, it’s about the same time as a guardian or thief runs the group through with aegis/stability or stealth.

And any class can solo Arah p1 it’s not a mesmer exclusive skill.

Then you have fractal 50 in which mesmer is unarguably worse than a guardian or thief, and hell guardian and thief are better in pretty much most instances for carrying a group, especially in colosus with blind spam and aegis and higher uptime on reflects when mesmer illusions are getting massacred.

Not that it’s much of a plus to a mesmer. Carrying is not something most people want to do.

I’d love to see your guardian help a pack of idiots run through a pack of illusionists or oozes with just those three skills.

If the people you choose to waste your time with are that bad, maybe you should reconsider the runs you do.

Sounds like you don’t run pugs in Arah very often. Or dungeons very much at all, if “skipped through CM without help” is your crowning achievement on ele.

Who said it was a crowning achievement, you’re just trolling and quite frankly I’m not surprised you’re running pugs so often, as insufferable a kitten you seem to be I don’t think there are many people that would tolerate your sullen kitten for long.

Sitting on several cacti seems more pleasant than carrying a conversation with you right now.

At least the people I run with know I can skip CM without help lol

If only you could manage to carry people with your guardian though. Such a terribly hard task.

To be totally honest, after reading the dev quote mentioned in the OP, I’m pretty sure the Mesmer specialiszation won’t shake up the sPvP landscape the most.

Dev estimations concerning class balance? Don’t want to be rude here, but there’s a high chance that they might be wrong.

Mesmer F skills are bad currently so they have nowhere to go but up. They won’t lose phantasms unless all their weapon skills change, but if the Illusions line is changed theymay get things that make them less dependent on phantasms to deal damage in PvE.

Honestly I dunno how their new skills could possibly be worse than shatters, at least.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mesmer F skills are bad currently so they have nowhere to go but up. They won’t lose phantasms unless all their weapon skills change, but if the Illusions line is changed theymay get things that make them less dependent on phantasms to deal damage in PvE.

Honestly I dunno how their new skills could possibly be worse than shatters, at least.

Trust me, it could still go down. Remember new grandmaster traits aka Power Block?… yep..

Im actually really excited for everything in the expansion.

Please don’t hit me D;

Alissaahhhhhh!

/open

Chaoooooooos!

/close? whatever that means.