Guild Wars 2

Fixing forum bug(?)

Tealots.6095:

@Sebrent: Agreed, to a point. Sword-Dagger thieves are way harder to pin down. I think I’ve heard Rylock say that you can interrupt CnD and the chain skill for Infiltrator’s Strike. But that’s a little difficult for me just yet :P. Dagger-Pistol thieves, on the other had, as long as you can clear the blind, feel free to interrupt those Heartseekers. You know that it’s coming the second they fire the blinding shot. My problem with DP thieves is never the initial burst, it’s the complete reset after Shadow Refuge. If they can avoid the push/pull from the GS/Sword-Focus set, they have 15 seconds of making us play a guessing game. With Basilisk Venom and a backstab/steal combo, it’s a risky gamble if we want to time our dodge.

I’d say shatter does a little bit better than lockdown even in the thief matchup, but some people will prove me wrong.

But as I’ve stated elsewhere on these forums. The thief should just stick to shortbowing mesmers down. That weapon was F@#$ing designed for PVP.

Shortbow excels in all gamemodes from pvp and wvw to open world farms and blasting in dungeons it is by far the thief strongest weapon, which is why I made an sb only thief build :P

Without having read more than the first two posts…

Just because a lot of us vocal “forum folk” love non-power shatter builds does not mean we don’t know how to play it. I’ll say that I am proficient with power shatter. I just choose other play styles because they fit my preference more.

This entire argument within the Mesmer community is old, late and tired. Bring on HoT.

witcher.3197:

Sadrien.3470:

witcher.3197:

Why am I even trying. Ok, MtD is the best build universe. It can even 1v5 teams. /thread

I offered a reasonable argument you are the one who is being unreasonable right now. I never said MtD was better just that it has the strengths listed above and you outright refuse to admit it can be any good, don’t even read my posts or respond as if you haven’t, and insult guilds as if they are a single entity of which all members are identical.

That comment wasn’t only meant for you, but the direction this thread was taking. I’ve had one too many conversations about MtD on this forum and I do not want to turn this thread inot another one that’s why I do not want to elaborate. Your points are wrong btw, but I know that I will never be able to convince you.

Edit: nvm, very brief response: it doesn’t “force” any cleansing, a warrior/ele doing simple roations and healing can negate you as a side effect, your attacks are mostly unrelyable and only strong in theory, your weapon skills and shatters are clunky, power shatter destroys MtD in a duel, and is just as dependent on stealth if not more as you don’t have access to instant defensive mehcanics granted by IP or the distortion from sword 2.

switcher please go back to being a highly biased admin for metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource but only recruits closed-minded admins )

We are where we are because we value quality over quantity and aren’t biased. Last month I’ve archived 2 of my favorite builds (which means removing it from the working category/frontpage), how is that biased? I think we are open minded, but that doesn’t mean we worship everything you can kill an enemy with in very specific situations.

Fay.2357:

Metabattle.com, at least for mesmer, is just about as close to a complete joke as is possible to achieve.

100g if you find a mistake in a shatter build for Pvp that we have. If you can’t, you owe me 100g. Deal?

Deal

Perhaps you can assist me then with some quality assurance. In november of 2014 the build for traditional shatter was edited so that instead of sigil of battle, sigil of blood became the default sigil for offhand torch. That change remained until April of the following year. Both changes were performed by a user named Hanz. This user has performed ~80% of the revisions. Now to the present date sigil of blood has remained as a possible sigil variant.

This is and cannot ever be correct for sword torch on shatter.

Here why

• sigil of blood does half the damage of sigil of air, and this is only if blood crits. As air cannot crit you are looking at 50% chance per blood proc to do 50% damage of an air sigil. (ignoring the 5 second Icd on blood vs the 3 second Icd on air)

• in this build blood cannot heal more than 906 health per 9 second weapon swap cool down. This is outperformed by the sigil of leeching which will heal 973 and requires one proc.

• the sigil of blood only out damages leeching at 2 procs of the sigil by about 500 damage (and if both procs crit) and it only out heals after three proc. One immediately at at the start of the weapon swap, one five seconds in, and another five seconds later, assuming you didn’t swap the second the set came off of cool down.

Why is this such an erroneous addition to the build?

Sword torch is a melee set. Weapon sigils can only proc off of shatters and our own weapon/utility skill. So this means you have to be shattering or in melee range every five seconds you are in the set. The nature of sword torch does not allow you to consistently perform such an action so that use of the sigil would be considered useful. Don’t tell me you want tankiness, the armor section only uses berserker, and the sigil of leeching is a far better variant for this build.

But I want my 100 gold. And I know you might argue with my reasoning. So a simpler example of how metabattle.com has messed up even shatter builds. In that same build, in the section explaining sword. The author explains blurred frenzy as a second shorter cool down distortion. They even link to the distortion tool tip….

I want my money.

edit: This has been screenshotted. Don;t try to delete the post or tell me you were talking to Pyro only. You asking another commenter why they weren’t going for the prize is also screenshotted. You have my account name. And my in game name is Kentigem.

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Sadrien.3470:

witcher.3197:

Why am I even trying. Ok, MtD is the best build universe. It can even 1v5 teams. /thread

I offered a reasonable argument you are the one who is being unreasonable right now. I never said MtD was better just that it has the strengths listed above and you outright refuse to admit it can be any good, don’t even read my posts or respond as if you haven’t, and insult guilds as if they are a single entity of which all members are identical.

That comment wasn’t only meant for you, but the direction this thread was taking. I’ve had one too many conversations about MtD on this forum and I do not want to turn this thread inot another one that’s why I do not want to elaborate. Your points are wrong btw, but I know that I will never be able to convince you.

Edit: nvm, very brief response: it doesn’t “force” any cleansing, a warrior/ele doing simple roations and healing can negate you as a side effect, your attacks are mostly unrelyable and only strong in theory, your weapon skills and shatters are clunky, power shatter destroys MtD in a duel, and is just as dependent on stealth if not more as you don’t have access to instant defensive mehcanics granted by IP or the distortion from sword 2.

switcher please go back to being a highly biased admin for metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource but only recruits closed-minded admins )

We are where we are because we value quality over quantity and aren’t biased. Last month I’ve archived 2 of my favorite builds (which means removing it from the working category/frontpage), how is that biased? I think we are open minded, but that doesn’t mean we worship everything you can kill an enemy with in very specific situations.

Fay.2357:

Metabattle.com, at least for mesmer, is just about as close to a complete joke as is possible to achieve.

100g if you find a mistake in a shatter build for Pvp that we have. If you can’t, you owe me 100g. Deal?

Deal

Perhaps you can assist me then with some quality assurance. In november of 2014 the build for traditional shatter was edited so that instead of sigil of battle, sigil of blood became the default sigil for offhand torch. That change remained until April of the following year. Both changes were performed by a user named Hanz. This user has performed ~80% of the revisions. Now to the present date sigil of blood has remained as a possible sigil variant.

This is and cannot ever be correct for sword torch on shatter.

Here why

• sigil of blood does half the damage of sigil of air, and this is only if blood crits. As air cannot crit you are looking at 50% chance per blood proc to do 50% damage of an air sigil. (ignoring the 5 second Icd on blood vs the 3 second Icd on air)

• in this build blood cannot heal more than 906 health per 9 second weapon swap cool down. This is outperformed by the sigil of leeching which will heal 973 and requires one proc.

• the sigil of blood only out damages leeching at 2 procs of the sigil by about 500 damage (and if both procs crit) and it only out heals after three proc. One immediately at at the start of the weapon swap, one five seconds in, and another five seconds later, assuming you didn’t swap the second the set came off of cool down.

Why is this such an erroneous addition to the build?

Sword torch is a melee set. Weapon sigils can only proc off of shatters and our own weapon/utility skill. So this means you have to be shattering or in melee range every five seconds you are in the set. The nature of sword torch does not allow you to consistently perform such an action so that use of the sigil would be considered useful. Don’t tell me you want tankiness, the armor section only uses berserker, and the sigil of leeching is a far better variant for this build.

But I want my 100 gold. And I know you might argue with my reasoning. So a simpler example of how metabattle.com has messed up even shatter builds. In that same build, in the section explaining sword. The author explains blurred frenzy as a second shorter cool down distortion. They even link to the distortion tool tip….

I want my money.

edit: This has been screenshotted. Don;t try to delete the post or tell me you were talking to Pyro only. You asking another commenter why they weren’t going for the prize is also screenshotted. You have my account name. And my in game name is Kentigem.

I like this response so much I think I should get 100g too.

What I’ve gathered from reading this

1) Talking about the leaderboards as a source of your skill suggests that you probably shouldn’t post on the forums for your own good, ever again.

2)The Op has a point, just because your build isn’t revolved around shatter doesn’t mean you’re 2nd tier. I’ve given meta build mesmer’s & other classes cancer so fast that they don’t even have time to get chemo, it does have its downfalls however. However my build/creation is getting erased and replaced by a different cancer come expansion so this is irrelevant.

3) Both condi shatter and power shatter are getting buffed in the expansion, so therefore this thread will become irrelevant as well soon enough. Since they are trying to nudge towards shatter only builds, which as fine as long as there are options for both styles of play, aka power and condi.

4)Have a good weekend

Countless

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

I forgot to add the troll face it was obviously a joke message… but you also forgetting about breaking banners while your foes has Stab with moa, and condi build edits. And I did not rant I wrote 2 sentences you are trying to make me sound undignified and stupid because you don’t want to look like your breaking your part of a deal I wouldn’t hold you to anyways.

Sadrien.3470:

I forgot to add the troll face it was obviously a joke message… but you also forgetting about breaking banners while your foes has Stab with moa, and condi build edits. And I did not rant I wrote 2 sentences you are trying to make me sound undignified and stupid because you don’t want to look like your breaking your part of a deal I wouldn’t hold you to anyways.

Sry then. It’s honestly very hard to determine whether people are serious or joking on the profession forums.

Really ??? I thought that one was an obvious jk lol.

Sadrien.3470:

Really ??? I thought that one was an obvious jk lol.

I’ve seen too much around here QQ

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

BF certainly isn’t distortion. Retal and condi procs anyone? My fav is landing a scepter 2 5 stacks torment on a BF’ing mesmer. Anyway, a bad links a bad link.

The appropriate effect is Blur, and there should be an individual wiki page for it, which unfortunately for you there’s not. Metabattle oversight; should have checked your sources.

+1 for Metabattle. Worth the 100g.

Turns out the torment landing was a bug that’s long since been fixed, good to know. :D

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

BF certainly isn’t distortion. Retal and condi procs anyone? My fav is landing a scepter 2 5 stacks torment on a Bkitten mesmer. Anyway, a bad links a bad link.

The appropriate effect is Blur, and there should be an individual wiki page for it, which unfortunately for you there’s not. Metabattle oversight; should have checked your sources.

+1 for Metabattle. Worth the 100g.

I want my money.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

BF certainly isn’t distortion. Retal and condi procs anyone? My fav is landing a scepter 2 5 stacks torment on a Bkitten mesmer. Anyway, a bad links a bad link.

The appropriate effect is Blur, and there should be an individual wiki page for it, which unfortunately for you there’s not. Metabattle oversight; should have checked your sources.

+1 for Metabattle. Worth the 100g.

BF was Distortion before, now its just an evade or something.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

BF certainly isn’t distortion. Retal and condi procs anyone? My fav is landing a scepter 2 5 stacks torment on a Bkitten mesmer. Anyway, a bad links a bad link.

The appropriate effect is Blur, and there should be an individual wiki page for it, which unfortunately for you there’s not. Metabattle oversight; should have checked your sources.

+1 for Metabattle. Worth the 100g.

BF was Distortion before, now its just an evade or something.

Yeah. Was amazing, now just good. Or bad in the middle of a zerg -_-u Perspective! :D

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

BF certainly isn’t distortion. Retal and condi procs anyone? My fav is landing a scepter 2 5 stacks torment on a Bkitten mesmer. Anyway, a bad links a bad link.

The appropriate effect is Blur, and there should be an individual wiki page for it, which unfortunately for you there’s not. Metabattle oversight; should have checked your sources.

+1 for Metabattle. Worth the 100g.

BF was Distortion before, now its just an evade or something.

Which is why I want my money. @Witcher

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

witcher.3197:

Daniel Handler.4816:

(…)

If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.

Sadrien.3470:

I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.

Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?

Give me my money. The part about sword and blurred frenzy is blatantly wrong. As I said in the post I don’t care how you feel about blood sigil, I have this other part as backup l want my money.

BF certainly isn’t distortion. Retal and condi procs anyone? My fav is landing a scepter 2 5 stacks torment on a Bkitten mesmer. Anyway, a bad links a bad link.

The appropriate effect is Blur, and there should be an individual wiki page for it, which unfortunately for you there’s not. Metabattle oversight; should have checked your sources.

+1 for Metabattle. Worth the 100g.

BF was Distortion before, now its just an evade or something.

Blurred frenzy never provided distortion properly; it never interacted with the reflect trait. It did, however, provide invuln like distortion did.

This was nerfed a very long time ago, I think close to a year and a half or so. There’s no excuse for linking to distortion now.

Soooo about that 100g…

Also note that you can still be hit by another mesmers shatter well under the affect of blur if the shatter is initiated before blurred frenzy and the clones land after the blur affect is applied. Confirmed as of 2014, maybe they fixed it now but it has not been in any patch notes.

Sadrien.3470:

Also note that you can still be hit by another mesmers shatter well under the affect of blur if the shatter is initiated before blurred frenzy and the clones land after the blur affect is applied. Confirmed as of 2014, maybe they fixed it now but it has not been in any patch notes.

This…doesn’t seem right. This interaction would make zero sense with how the skills work. I’ll test it, stand by.

Edit: Tested it, this is 100% false. I honestly think this never ever was a thing, but I can’t prove that obviously.

MtD shatter build should list runes of the krait as a rune variant and sigils if torment as sigil variants. Add a notes on how scepter 2 can be intentionally used in an existing AoE to proc the torment against a foe who is not actively attacking and on the aftercast from the torment application.

My post was deleted by a mod. TL;DR – you really want that gold too bad you don’t have anything to claim it.

The best you can do is complaining about wording in the usage, which basically isn’t even part of the build? But fine, let’s consider usage to be a part of it because you are special.

If you watch closely, the skill itself does link to Blur. The rest is called figurative speech but you probably never heard of it.

The article is refering to Sword 2 as 2nd distortion because it can be used as a panic button just like F4. What’s next, you’ll say “ha! it say stability will help me stomp enemies, I pressed stability and he did not get somped! you did not say I must press F!”?

@Sadrien – MtD is trash, whatever you add or don’t add it’ll be trash. Besides, not having extra 10 million options listed isn’t a mistake.

PS – I have better things to do than listening to unreasonable arguements of the forum cult, if anyone still has any questions PM me, but I’m done here.

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

Also note that you can still be hit by another mesmers shatter well under the affect of blur if the shatter is initiated before blurred frenzy and the clones land after the blur affect is applied. Confirmed as of 2014, maybe they fixed it now but it has not been in any patch notes.

This…doesn’t seem right. This interaction would make zero sense with how the skills work. I’ll test it, stand by.

Edit: Tested it, this is 100% false. I honestly think this never ever was a thing, but I can’t prove that obviously.

It made 0 sense to me either… maybe caused by latency when I tested it but for me I was able to get clones to shatter on me and deal damage. I apologize for this statement since it is obviously incorrect as of now if you tested it. I think it has some correlation to the “long fixed” bug with the torment landing from scepter 2.

witcher.3197:

My post was deleted by a mod. TL;DR – you really want that gold too bad you don’t have anything to claim it.

The best you can do is complaining about wording in the usage, which basically isn’t even part of the build? But fine, let’s consider usage to be a part of it because you are special.

If you watch closely, the skill itself does link to Blur. The rest is called figurative speech but you probably never heard of it.

The article is refering to Sword 2 as 2nd distortion because it can be used as a panic button just like F4. What’s next, you’ll say “ha! it say stability will help me stomp enemies, I pressed stability and he did not get somped! you did not say I must press F!”?

@Sadrien – MtD is trash, whatever you add or don’t add it’ll be trash. Besides, not having extra 10 million options listed isn’t a mistake.

PS – I have better things to do than listening to unreasonable arguements of the forum cult, if anyone still has any questions PM me, but I’m done here.

I never demanded the money, I never really gave an unreasonable argument. (None of the members of these forums did). You call MtD trash( is by far an overstatement, imo) and if it is it shouldn’t be on meta battle listed under good / working builds should it? I’m now demanding 100gold just for that. But ofc ‘you just keep replying with (paraphrased) ’ ill make you a bet and then when you win it will say you didn’t and come up with some unreasonable reason why and call you a forum cultist.‘to others and that is how you’ll respond to my obvious success ( any trash build posted as good is an error at least worthy of the payment for one mistake.)
(The blur vs distortion is worth the gold imo… ) why you respond to people in this manner is beyond me and it obvious we can’t have a reasonable discussion outside of the occasional single post. And I will quote you here “if you find a mistake in any pvp shatter build…” therefore MtD shatter which is posted in conquest is a qualified build.

Edit: auto correct is stupid.

Oh and just because as soon as I message you the build changed categories doesn’t mean that you can say it doesn’t count just making sure you know because I have several screen shots. I’m willing to be nice here and consider my payment a donation.

witcher.3197:

My post was deleted by a mod. TL;DR – you really want that gold too bad you don’t have anything to claim it.

The best you can do is complaining about wording in the usage, which basically isn’t even part of the build? But fine, let’s consider usage to be a part of it because you are special.

If you watch closely, the skill itself does link to Blur. The rest is called figurative speech but you probably never heard of it.

The article is refering to Sword 2 as 2nd distortion because it can be used as a panic button just like F4. What’s next, you’ll say “ha! it say stability will help me stomp enemies, I pressed stability and he did not get somped! you did not say I must press F!”?

@Sadrien – MtD is trash, whatever you add or don’t add it’ll be trash. Besides, not having extra 10 million options listed isn’t a mistake.

PS – I have better things to do than listening to unreasonable arguements of the forum cult, if anyone still has any questions PM me, but I’m done here.

If you are going to make a public 100 gold bet on the forums, you might as well keep your word. 100 gold probably isn’t too much for you if you are a long time player.

witcher.3197:

My post was deleted by a mod. TL;DR – you really want that gold too bad you don’t have anything to claim it.

The best you can do is complaining about wording in the usage, which basically isn’t even part of the build? But fine, let’s consider usage to be a part of it because you are special.

If you watch closely, the skill itself does link to Blur. The rest is called figurative speech but you probably never heard of it.

The article is refering to Sword 2 as 2nd distortion because it can be used as a panic button just like F4. What’s next, you’ll say “ha! it say stability will help me stomp enemies, I pressed stability and he did not get somped! you did not say I must press F!”?

@Sadrien – MtD is trash, whatever you add or don’t add it’ll be trash. Besides, not having extra 10 million options listed isn’t a mistake.

PS – I have better things to do than listening to unreasonable arguements of the forum cult, if anyone still has any questions PM me, but I’m done here.

The skill itself doesn’t link to blur page it links to the tool tip which has blur in the text. But none of the explanation of what that means. Distortion and blur both say evade in the tooltips you have linked. And the distortion tooltip is old and doesn’t mention it prevents point capturing. This guide has not been made modern.

Also if you wanna complain about the build part, show me where sigil of blood or rune of vampirism is a meta variant. Sure anything is viable, but is it optimal? Heck no, I have never seen in the streams of the people you list either being used. You have an out of date site. These builds are suppose to be optimal, not just viable. Sure traditional shatter hasn’t reached the level of meta by the rankings, but the intent is to be to refine existing builds to try to be as optimal as possible.

Since people can’t read and ignore what I reply I will make a last post.

For the last time, in the bet I’ve asked if the build is correct. If you get the sigils/runes/traits/skill from the site, will it be correct and viable even if in the usage some people can’t comprehend what “figurative” is? Yes. Or is every single link with gw2skills or intothemists wrong because they have tons of outdated tooltips even if they build setup is correct?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Also if you wanna complain about the build part, show me where rune of vampirism is a meta variant.

When was the last time you watched a tournament? (discussion continues in private)

You put yourself up high on a pedestal then challenge people to knock you off. I get it, it’s hard to balance up there on that small platform. You constantly remind us of your position within your prestigious website, there’s a lot of pride flowing within that, and hey you might even be justified in your feelings. Still, you make a bet and when push comes to shove ungracefully weasel your way out of it. Regardless of if you’re justified in the scapegoat of wording or not (means nothing to me one way or the other) you’re making yourself look bad. Whatever credibility you think you should have you’ll never get it (not that people like that sort of thing from others anyway). You’d of been better off saying “Oh thanks for pointing out that bung link. Here’s your 100g” and calling it a day. Because now you not only owe someone 100g in the eyes of forum readers (name calling and trying to discredit people by calling them cultists is bad form btw), you’ve also dirtied your reputation regardless of if you step up and pay it or not. Maybe though you could turn it around a little bit as some humility can take a man a long way.

Up to you what you do. Sorry you’ve found yourself in an awful predicament. I’m not loaded but if you’re short on gold or something I’ll chip in 20g to help you out.

To say that MtD is trash is bullkitten, me and skcamow ran unorthodox builds yesterday and did fine in ToL, Im guessing you are one of those people who put zerk shatter as the only viable build

PS: Build does not correlate skill. I mean why did we advance to top 16 yesterday without shatter? so?

Wow people who play zerk shatter honestly feel they are “more skilled” than other who don’t? Idk it just felt and sounded that way.

StickerHappy.8052:

To say that MtD is trash is bullkitten, me and skcamow ran unorthodox builds yesterday and did fine in ToL, Im guessing you are one of those people who put zerk shatter as the only viable build

PS: Build does not correlate skill. I mean why did we advance to top 16 yesterday without shatter? so?

Wow people who play zerk shatter honestly feel they are “more skilled” than other who don’t? Idk it just felt and sounded that way.

Regarding how other players perceive shatter – I was testing mtd with scepter and traited focus the other day when it happened to be Mesmer daily => 3 mesmers on the other team.

To cut the story short, an opponent Mesmer who happened to be playing power shatter described the build I was playing as a “kitten torment build”, despite in my opinion it being harder to play than power shatter with IP, especially against other mesmers who are running that spec given they can avoid all the cc, have more stealth access and can easily burst you down.

In my opinion power shatter us nowhere near as difficult to play as it is made out to be, and this “illusion” of respect for people who play it compared to other Mesmer builds is ridiculous.

The main challenge with power shatter is surviving/sustain, but given you can kite all day against many classes/builds that’s also nowhere near as difficult as it’s made out to be, if it wasn’t for thieves keeping us on our toes constantly. As for killing things, well it excels especially against other mesmers – I think it’s the best option for killing mesmers.

Anyway I just think it’s ridiculous that every condi Mesmer build is labelled as cheese, every phantasm build cheese, every non shatter build (signets, interrupt) labelled as ineffective…

Curunen.8729:

StickerHappy.8052:

To say that MtD is trash is bullkitten, me and skcamow ran unorthodox builds yesterday and did fine in ToL, Im guessing you are one of those people who put zerk shatter as the only viable build

PS: Build does not correlate skill. I mean why did we advance to top 16 yesterday without shatter? so?

Wow people who play zerk shatter honestly feel they are “more skilled” than other who don’t? Idk it just felt and sounded that way.

Regarding how other players perceive shatter – I was testing mtd with scepter and traited focus the other day when it happened to be Mesmer daily => 3 mesmers on the other team.

To cut the story short, an opponent Mesmer who happened to be playing power shatter described the build I was playing as a “kitten torment build”, despite in my opinion it being harder to play than power shatter with IP, especially against other mesmers who are running that spec given they can avoid all the cc, have more stealth access and can easily burst you down.

In my opinion power shatter us nowhere near as difficult to play as it is made out to be, and this “illusion” of respect for people who play it compared to other Mesmer builds is ridiculous.

The main challenge with power shatter is surviving/sustain, but given you can kite all day against many classes/builds that’s also nowhere near as difficult as it’s made out to be, if it wasn’t for thieves keeping us on our toes constantly. As for killing things, well it excels especially against other mesmers – I think it’s the best option for killing mesmers.

Anyway I just think it’s ridiculous that every condi Mesmer build is labelled as cheese, every phantasm build cheese, every non shatter build (signets, interrupt) labelled as ineffective…

Uughh! You sound like one of those filthy forum cultists.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Up to you what you do. Sorry you’ve found yourself in an awful predicament. I’m not loaded but if you’re short on gold or something I’ll chip in 20g to help you out.

I can throw in 10g for Witcher as well. This has gotten so embarrassing for him.

I’m still awfully surprised that this debate is going on…

This is getting silly and straying far off topic. Lets leave personal opinion out of this and get back on track with facts.

Question. Disregarding matters of pride such as how easy a build is to play or how popular it is, why do you play your build, what role does your build play and how does it compare to shatter in terms of:

• Damage, both single target and AoE
• Survivability
• Team utility
• Mobility

MailMail.6534:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Up to you what you do. Sorry you’ve found yourself in an awful predicament. I’m not loaded but if you’re short on gold or something I’ll chip in 20g to help you out.

I can throw in 10g for Witcher as well. This has gotten so embarrassing for him.

I’m still awfully surprised that this debate is going on…

I’m willing to consider that all his bets are simply donations to us for our hard work on trying to make the strengths of other builds known or helping his website and forgive him for calling us forum cultists! ( and I think that is more than he deserves at this point. especially considering that he tried to warp honest suggestions from me in his pm box when responding on the forum) and allow him to pay only Daniel.

Maybe I was a bit mad, sorry for that, but it’s frustrating that I wanted get a legit arguement going and you all just jump at my throat because I’m not part of your.. whatever you call it. Most of you won’t read what I comment yet will keep responding, but whatever.

I’m fine with you having opinions, but don’t act like your opinion was fact especially if every top player disagrees with you. Notice how you chased off everyone of this forum who had a different opinion than you do despite you being the in-game minority, yet you refuse to be called a cult. I offered a bet, 1 or 2 guys actually participated in the bet, the rest of you just jumped on the bandwagon hating on me and cheering for them, because I dare to point out that you are wrong.

You expect me to give away 100 gold for no reason. Your 3 reasons so far: you don’t know what figurative speech is (and that part isn’t even truly the part of the build), 1 guy pointed out that Blood sucks for mes (checked it, Helseth’s standard S/T build still has blood on it), same guy said Vampirism sucks (vampirism is as close to top tier mesmer meta as it can get). Now, why would i give away 100g if you are wrong? Actually Sadrien, you’ve tried and failed, if I were that guy you’d owe me 100.

Could we get back on track? if you still want to debate it, drop a PM.

/emote tries to walk into the room

/emote almost gets an eye poked out by all the e-genitals being waved around

/emote decides it’s not worth losing in eye

…So anyway…

Chaos Archangel.5071:

This is getting silly and straying far off topic. Lets leave personal opinion out of this and get back on track with facts.

Question. Disregarding matters of pride such as how easy a build is to play or how popular it is, why do you play your build, what role does your build play and how does it compare to shatter in terms of:

• Damage, both single target and AoE
• Survivability
• Team utility
• Mobility

So I’ve chopped and changed a couple things around, mainly runes, sigils, and weapons, but for the most part my (serious) time spent in PvP has been playing, and perfecting Phantrupt. I understand that phantasms as a whole are far to problematic for PvP, but I think the one caveat is a well placed Duelist on a traited pistol, with a GS in toe. This allows me the options of high sustain and burst, while also allowing me to game certain systems such as stealth target drop and reposition for those classes that are apt at making use of those. But that’s not all my build has to offer. The other side apart from the DPS, but also tying into it is the interrupts/lockdown. This gives me the option of highly micromanaged control over the field of play. It also tears up enemy teams flow of play. They’re forced to burn resources of altar tactics when coming under focused pressure. Everything from pistol 5, GS 5, to MoD come with AoE presence also. I can essentially lock down enemy res and stomp effects, even doing so while ressing and stomping myself. Those moments are game changers and I can’t replicate them with IP shatter. Even being full glass, I can stop an enemy DPS attempt on a downed player to keep myself up, and get my friendlies off the ground. That’s priceless.

i have played mtd long time ago even before the buff testing in in almost every aspect of the wvw and pvp gamemodes

• Damage, both single target and AoE – 1v1 is the best , regarding aoe with some torment sigil and shatter at the right moment like when enemy down or group tigh together can do wonder with pressure. but not so many aoe dmg for the mesmer. if you know how to play staff clones and spread them its also nice pressure to 1-2 enemies with burning and bleeding and torment for few seconds.
  most of the meta builds are keyboard spamming so confusion will punish them for that like dd ele , engi, warrior thief. so good one will cleanse or stop attacking you or your team. same goes with 5 and above torment stacking
  average dmg from 1 shatter is 1k confusion and 1k torment for 1-3 sec = 2k-6k dmg
  average staff AA is 1k dps
  full combo abilities for 3 sec is about 10k-15k dmg

• Contesting – more easy to contest if you know how to play without stealth abusing as enemy will try no to stand around you or they will get punished

• Survivability – with 2.6 armor , block, blink you are fine if not been outmaned by zerker classes like thief

• Team utility – none but you take out enemy utilities fast and erlier in the fight giving your team some advantage.

• Mobility – with traveler you can do fine but hardly needed as its not your role to bounce from point to point.

• group composition – to be good at condition class you must have the right composition. you need 2-3 zerk class , 1-2 sustain like warrior . you should play with the warrior/guardian who can assist you with condi cleanse and boons while you shatter around him.

• Role – point holder close/far and assist mid. play with warrior/ guardian as you can do even 2v3 on point long enough for your team winning in 3v2 and come to help if needed. harras Ranger, thief, ele, mesmer and guardian. 1 block with scpeter can push the thief to go SR giving your team few seconds of outnumberd fight. pressure the ele to be on water attunment for the cleanse and not doing dmg, pressure the guard to use his cleanse and utilities. dont try to burst in group fight as you can burn your utilities and shatter. your job is to harras in group fight as they can cleanse so you want the enemy to be focus on defense and not offense. when they go offense shatter and kill with your team. 1v1 just kill

• Counter – condi dmg, immobilize (panice strike), cc (no ip – yet) and condi cleanse like shout warrior working with ele and range burst like ranger and power shatter with gs.

witcher.3197:

Maybe I was a bit mad, sorry for that, but it’s frustrating that I wanted get a legit arguement going and you all just jump at my throat because I’m not part of your.. whatever you call it. Most of you won’t read what I comment yet will keep responding, but whatever.

Wow, it’s like text-book trolling!

Woe me, the troll is now the villain being assaulted by all the forum cultists who were defending their build and playstyle from the droves of angry power-shatter pros who continually call every other build bad, ineffective, “trash”, useless, etc.

I can’t recall one MtD Mesmer ever saying Power-Shatter is bad, trash, low-skill, useless, etc.!

It would only make you look ignorant if you did that anyway, but to come here and play the victim is truly just as ignorant. People are defending their choice, and they have every right to do so, as the only valid argument against MtD is that it’s not top-tier. It has been used effectively at all levels and all PvP modes aside from the very very top levels of play. That is hardly a reason to call a build and play style trash, ineffective, low-skill, etc. It’s insulting people, and that’s what you get for insulting people…they fight back. duh!

And you owe that dude 100g and you know it. Your “I’m taking my toys and going home” post proves that even you see it, but are trying -and failing miserably- to justify why you don’t have to pay it.

Don’t let your mouth (fingers) write a check that your tail can’t cash!

Windwalker.7421:

witcher.3197:

Maybe I was a bit mad, sorry for that, but it’s frustrating that I wanted get a legit arguement going and you all just jump at my throat because I’m not part of your.. whatever you call it. Most of you won’t read what I comment yet will keep responding, but whatever.

Wow, it’s like text-book trolling!

Woe me, the troll is now the villain being assaulted by all the forum cultists who were defending their build and playstyle from the droves of angry power-shatter pros who continually call every other build bad, ineffective, “trash”, useless, etc.

I can’t recall one MtD Mesmer ever saying Power-Shatter is bad, trash, low-skill, useless, etc.!

It would only make you look ignorant if you did that anyway, but to come here and play the victim is truly just as ignorant. People are defending their choice, and they have every right to do so, as the only valid argument against MtD is that it’s not top-tier. It has been used effectively at all levels and all PvP modes aside from the very very top levels of play. That is hardly a reason to call a build and play style trash, ineffective, low-skill, etc. It’s insulting people, and that’s what you get for insulting people…they fight back. duh!

And you owe that dude 100g and you know it. Your “I’m taking my toys and going home” post proves that even you see it, but are trying -and failing miserably- to justify why you don’t have to pay it.

Don’t let your mouth (fingers) write a check that your tail can’t cash!

I can tell you did not read more than the 1st few lines of my comment. Which kind of proves my point.

witcher.3197:

Maybe I was a bit mad, sorry for that, but it’s frustrating that I wanted get a legit arguement going and you all just jump at my throat because I’m not part of your.. whatever you call it. Most of you won’t read what I comment yet will keep responding, but whatever.

I’m fine with you having opinions, but don’t act like your opinion was fact especially if every top player disagrees with you. Notice how you chased off everyone of this forum who had a different opinion than you do despite you being the in-game minority, yet you refuse to be called a cult. I offered a bet, 1 or 2 guys actually participated in the bet, the rest of you just jumped on the bandwagon hating on me and cheering for them, because I dare to point out that you are wrong.

You expect me to give away 100 gold for no reason. Your 3 reasons so far: you don’t know what figurative speech is (and that part isn’t even truly the part of the build), 1 guy pointed out that Blood sucks for mes (checked it, Helseth’s standard S/T build still has blood on it), same guy said Vampirism sucks (vampirism is as close to top tier mesmer meta as it can get). Now, why would i give away 100g if you are wrong? Actually Sadrien, you’ve tried and failed, if I were that guy you’d owe me 100.

Could we get back on track? if you still want to debate it, drop a PM.

i dont know if you control what going on in the metabattle site but its seems its not very objective site

example:
i post there the mtd condi shatter with explanation and toturial and tpvp fights (not hotjoins)
the build score 4 by the community which is good and yet back and forth this build came out to the testing area because 1 guy think helseth is the aproval of any mesmer build with out any explenation what so ever.

you make the rules and clearly the site dont pose them . so its preety much abvios you dont want it to be at all as a mesmer build. so tell me how can i make any conversation with you

^ Our rating system is exploitable, that’s why builds aren’t moved from testing. There were even multiple votes submitted from the same IP, and basically every voter ignores what rating ranges mean. Letting MtD pass was a mistake that got reverted. Sadly the crew is rather small and has other things to do, so it’ll take a while before anything significant happens. It was done to ensure quality.

About what’s wrong with MtD, I can elaborate on PM as I’ve said like a million times in this thread but not here, as I no longer wish to interact with this forum, if you want something, PM me – I’m only here because people keep calling me out with nonsense.

Tutorials were removed because they had 0 educational value. You are attacking people who can’t distinguish who is the clone and who is the real mes, backpedal cluelessly without even attacking, don’t dodge a single thing and you burn Moas in 1v1 without any reason.

PS – actually I’ve already explained what’s wrong with MtD in my very 1st comment in this thread, but that’s how much people pay attention.

witcher.3197:

^ Our rating system is exploitable, that’s why builds aren’t moved from testing. There were even multiple votes submitted from the same IP, and basically every voter ignores what rating ranges mean. Letting MtD pass was a mistake that got reverted. Sadly the crew is rather small and has other things to do, so it’ll take a while before anything significant happens. It was done to ensure quality.

About what’s wrong with MtD, I can elaborate on PM as I’ve said like a million times in this thread but not here, as I no longer wish to interact with this forum, if you want something, PM me – I’m only here because people keep calling me out with nonsense.

Tutorials were removed because they had 0 educational value. You are attacking people who can’t distinguish who is the clone and who is the real mes, backpedal cluelessly without even attacking, don’t dodge a single thing and you burn Moas in 1v1 without any reason.

PS – actually I’ve already explained what’s wrong with MtD in my very 1st comment in this thread, but that’s how much people pay attention.

i can agree that toturials dont serve much an long time mesmer player. i got several pm on game to teach and explain the build. also ppl like those vids and most important almost no one puts mtd videos.
so even if you think the enemies were bad (i dont know i play tpvp low mid rank so this is the community) no one say the build is great or meta but it is valid build to play with.

yes the rating system is expoildable and 10 guys cant claim a build deserve to be great or good. thus more build out there shouldnt be great or meta?! (like terrormancer which long time ago left the meta)

at your first claim you basicaly trait it like a pu build . i hardly use stealth and i usualy can contest a point. you say it cant be fought against the cele meta but so as thief, ranger, power mesmer etc…. but as a group you can. imo. but i see you see it at the zerker meta eyes which left the condi out which is true atm.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

“IF YOU’RE HAVING SUCCESS WITH A NON-SHATTER BUILD, YOUR OPPONENTS ARE BAD”

Chaos Archangel.5071:

“THE OFFICIAL FORUMS ARE FILLED WITH BRAINDEADS WHO HAIL PU, CONDI SHATTER, AND LOCKDOWN AS THE BEST BUILDS”

I’d just like to take a moment for us all to just sit back and genuinly enjoy how the true spirit of this thread, as captured in these two capitalized and bolded quotes from the first two posts by the OP, have come forth so wholeheartedly and vigorously.

The picturesque landscape that has henceforth been painted is so beautiful I’ve just had to wipe a tear from my eye- sniffle

:D

Title of the thread seems said by a thief who failed to oneshot nonshatter mesmer well, suck it.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.