Guild Wars 2

Ryn.6459:

Anet,
Is it possible to exchange positions of “shattered conditions” and “phantasmal haste”? I do think that both traits are in wrong trees.

I do agree on Phantasmal Haste. It doesn’t make any sense. Shattered Conditions is okay where it is. All supportive shatters are placed in Inspiration which offers shatter builds some diversity.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@Xaylin: The thing is, interrupts are only one form of shutdown; you don’t have to take any of the interrupt traits at all to shut down condition damage builds, just Null Field and iDisenchanter.

True. And that’s why I have been talking about interrupt builds and specifically about daze. Not about lock down in general because Null Field and iDisenchanter in no way interact with CS.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

What makes the Confounding Suggestion’s change so good is that it makes any lockdown build that takes offhand Sword with weapon CD(ex: 30/10/0/0/30) really kitten dangerous, and if you grab Mantra of Distraction? Even more dangerous.

[…]

Chaotic Interruption is a bit different. IMO to make an interrupt build work you NEED to have Mantra of Distraction, there’s just no better skill in the game for interrupting opponents.

I don’t think that an interrupt build always needs MoD to work. But as you said yourself, it is the most potent daze we have. Would you really get CS over HM in the build you described?

I’m not arguing that CS won’t be viable in this build. But I feel that HM would outperform CS unless you get many additional dazes and/or bring Mesmer Runes. That probrably also makes a 30/x/x/x/30 (ID) with MoD the only interrupt build where CS clearly outperforms HM. That feels wrong to me, considering that CS is supposed to be THE daze grandmaster.

I also argue that you could go for CI instead of CS for most interrupt builds (not all…) without feeling any difference in gameplay. It might be a personal thing but I do not like it when traits are redundant. It might be tolerable on the adept level but not for grandmaster traits. This just creates a fake and superficial build diversity.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Since that takes up one skill slot right there, and Blink/Decoy will likely take another, it leaves you with only 1 flexible utility to work with. The Interrupt traits themselves are also in awkward places, forcing you to go 10/30/30/0/0 if you want to grab them all, and even then there’s always the chance, that you won’t pull off enough interrupts to make the trait investment worth it. Interrupt builds are a bit of a gamble; when they work, the interrupt traits -especially Chaotic and Bountiful Interruption- work very well. But when they don’t work, you have nearly no presence on the battlefield.

I’m a bit unsure what you want to point out here.

Yes, the traits are widely spread. But you don’t need to pick all of them. Actually you better shouldn’t. Because of the mentioned fact that you might not be able to pull it off everytime. That’s why I personally feel that the best interrupt builds are those which combine interrupts with other capabilities.

Personally I would prefer for scepter to be our AoE tagging weapon. I’d like the projectile to be fast and do splash dmg, something like 40% of the dmg of the main target to 2-3 enemies within 180 radius of the original target.

I see the chain attack like this perhaps.

- First chain -MIND CRUSH – cause mania to surrounding enemies, causing 40% of the damage caused to your original target to 2 additional targets within 180 radius of the original target.
- Second chain -MIND SNAP – snap your enemies mind, causing 60% of the damage caused to your original target to 4 additional enemies within 180 radius of the original target.
- Third chain – MIND HAUNT – cause an illusion to spawn at the mesmers location that will immediately run at the target and shatter for 30% of the normal dmg shatter would do. While the shatter would do splash dmg when the illusion pops, the third chain attack itself would not splash. Depending on how effective this might be, it would be nice to have on shatter effects also propagate to this illusion.

The key thing here to make this successful would be to have a fast projectile, that can tag things.

skcamow.3527:

First, I love the idea of making all ether bolts (from you or clone) projectile finishers. The name of the attack fits perfect with ethereal fields anyway – they should have some kind of reaction.

Second, I absolutely love the blast finisher idea, but would it be too OP being able to spam them so quickly?

If they kept the clone on 3rd attack, I think having both of the above is probably too much, but maybe add one (dat blast finisher!) It would really go along with what Jon Peters was saying about making scepter more supportive. Lots of AoE Chaos Armor would do just that.

Wasbunny.6531:

I was also a little concerned about how OP the blast finisher would be as it would encourage spamming 1 in group fights and with scepter/torch we already have 1 blast finisher. Part of the elegance of this idea though is how simple it would be for the devs to dial in exactly the right strength via percentages. Even replacing the blast finisher on second attack with another projectile finisher at whatever percentage would still be amazing.

Thanks Esquire for this suggestion, hope it gets seen.

I had the same concerns and I’m not married to the idea. However,I felt that “on paper” it had enough mitigating factors to avoid being overpowered.

• I think that without the blast finisher, scepter is still the least desirable weapon in PvE. Even then, adding a blast finisher probably won’t displace current options, but does present an attractive alternative, especially for support focused builds.
• I envisioned the blast finisher to proc upon hitting an enemy, at the enemy’s location (similar to Dragon’s Tooth, but a projectile). In other words, you’d have to (i) hit your target (ii) while it’s standing in a combo field (iii) with the 2nd part of your auto-attack chain.
• For large scale fights in WvW, I think the mitigating factor is the 900 range. I think there’s sufficient risk there to offset the benefit.
• For large scale PvE, I suppose I’m OK with “spamming” the #1 skill on scepter. The other 2 skills offer very little for large scale PvE encounters and you’re most likely waiting for your offhand phantasm to come off cooldown.
• I think there’s a concern for sPvP in being able to bunker really hard with another bunker character. Instead of petting zoos, we have Blue Man Group.
• I’m not really sure how fast you could spam Ether Blast. The whole chain takes approx. 4 seconds. That’s slightly faster than Mighty Blow (5 secs) and Dragon’s Tooth (6 seconds), but probably slower than Cluster Bomb. At the very least, it’s not disproportionate to other existing blast finishers.

I omitted this analysis from my original post because a lot of people just want to know the time, not how the gears work.

After reading tons of great suggestions on scepter, here’s my new wish list:
- Auto-attack – just make it a little faster and not have attack rate depend on range
- Block – as the cancel effect, create a small AoE blind that is also a blast finisher – this gives the blast finisher that Esquire suggested and it makes this skill useful if you’re attacked by multiple people
- Confusing images – give 2s of weakness in small AoE after fifth pulse (doesn’t happen if cancelled before fifth pulse)

The confusing images change isn’t that “tricksy”, but it’s a helpful defensive idea that aid both you and your allies.

the scepter is SOOOO Close to being a great condition/power/hybrid weapon. Its on the cusp of all 3, it just needs… auto attack help. I really do love the scepter I hope it gets a littttttle bit more tweaking. I like the splash damage idea a lot

Scepter
I realize that condition spam is something to be wary of, but what if there was a short burst of confusion as part of the scepter’s auto-attack?

• 3 stacks of confusion for 1 second on the third attack

Mimic
The icon reminds me of a ghost disappearing. I’d love a skill that would create a fake dying clone on the field, or even shatter the main character and give 2-3 seconds of stealth to set up for a better position (or just run away while they stomp the fake dead clone). I could see it being rather strategic in WvW – Use Mimic, you go into stealth and a dead clone is created in front of you, then you find a better position on the field while the zerg remains to stomp your clone.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Warriors can hammer burst like every 9 seconds for a much longer duration, and harder hitting stun… I dunno.

Abilities between different classes don’t compare in a vacuum. :P

Sorry, but has anyone mentioned the too long and unecessary animation before casting Scepter #3?

Also, aside from scepter issues, I have been wondering what “confusing combatants” is doing up there so high in the crit tree. It’s clearly a condition minor talent and would be better to be put elsewhere. It gels extremely well with Debilitating Dissipations for example. I doubt anyone going that high in the duelist tree is truly interested in that… If I want three talents in Duelist I have to take it but if you ask me if it is useful well…. the answer is no: I don’t see conditions/confusions and very high crit builds go well together.

/chr

Any news on the scepter yet Anet?

WitchKing.5317:

Any news on the scepter yet Anet?

John said he is working on sub forum responses in the main thread.

Ross Biddle.2367:

WitchKing.5317:

Any news on the scepter yet Anet?

John said he is working on sub forum responses in the main thread.

kk thanks

Okay let’s say you want the signet mesmer to be a thing.
First step to do is to rework most signets. Right now they don’t have any synergy with each other and some don’t even have synergy with themself.

There are limited uses where you need passiv and activ of the signets.
The best one in my opinion is Signet of Inspiration. Passiv gives boons, activ spreads them.

• Signet of Domination – Passive: Improved condition damage. Active: Stun your foe. You can use it in an condition build but most of the time you avoid using it. You can use it in an interupt build but there only the activ is interesting. If you want signets to be a defensiv option, make the passiv something like the runes of melandru > less stun duration

• Signet of Illusions – Passive: Grants more health to your illusions.Active: Recharge your shatter skills.
  Passiv and activ kind of contradict each other. The activ should probably be changed to something else, so you have the passiv still acts in a defensiv way. Perhaps this would be a good skill to have condi removal in a future signet build.

• Signet of Midnight – Passive: Improves boon duration. Active: Blind nearby foes.
  The passiv already has some synergy with Inspiration so it should stay. Looking at a build you would need a stun breaker here.

• Traits – Signet Mastery, Blurred Inscriptions and Cleansing Inscriptions are in 3 different lines. Mastery and Cleansing should be combined to be strong. Blurred Inscriptions is probably the only reason some would even think about a signet build so it is already strong. To add another depth to signet there could be a trait created which adds different stat buffs to every signet.

Even after changes like these i’m not sure signet could be called a build on it’s on.

Dear Mr. Jon,
Do these balances include ``synchronised large scaled group``?(as 20 players) in WvW mode..(or as future Obsidian matches) or Balances is just for 5 players orientated Groups or/and solo.. And Why or Why Not?
sorry if i already missed, or couldnt understand..

why i am so confused..

JonPeters.5630:

Our goal for many of the classes was to increase build diversity while still maintaining class roles and identities. Some of the things we increased were abilities/skills that people don’t run very often. Our goal was to increase these abilities to make them viable alternate builds.

• As being Mesmer we are dead, have no seats except for veil(or portal) in as GvG matches(competitive sync organized guild group with 15,20,25 players, Fair matches vs same. as.. (deathmatch mode)) not mean wvw zerging..
  simply why, We are less effective than other classes to be selectable as Those orientations..
  Simply,
  - Mesmers are lacking effective working roles, as their main roles-identites+or various, (except being slot bot with veil, portal, tw support) or not better in any role than other classes + overall efficient
  - Mesmers maintain archetypes doesnt work as reqular.. (shatter, phantasms…)

JonPeters.5630:

Be constructive. If you think a change may cause issues, say why and give examples. Try not to argue with others – make your point ``and then accept that other people may have different points of view.``

• as we have different modes, so balances required as with their modes?

JonPeters.5630:

Be objective. Keep in mind that just because you may not like something, that doesn’t make it bad. Others may have differing opinions. They may play a different type of content, or they may play a different profession, so be objective and keep in mind – we have to balance the game for EVERYONE, not just you.

• yes, i can not see myself that i am ignorant community as punished by playing GvG

JonPeters.5630:

Be mindful of context. Power creep is something we’re trying to avoid. Sometimes a profession may not receive as many increases as other classes. A lot of times, this is because that class is already performing very well in the current state of the game. So keep the overall context/state of the game in mind when giving feedback.

• Thats Why i am asking my above Question..

Xaylin.1860:

Ryn.6459:

Anet,
Is it possible to exchange positions of “shattered conditions” and “phantasmal haste”? I do think that both traits are in wrong trees.

I do agree on Phantasmal Haste. It doesn’t make any sense. Shattered Conditions is okay where it is. All supportive shatters are placed in Inspiration which offers shatter builds some diversity.

Actually there is no any supportive shatter in Inspiration. Also I don’t heard of any shatter build that runs with 30 on Inspiration.
For the typical shtatter with 30 on Illusions, shattered conditions will compete with Illusionary Invigoration (also a defensive trait).

Can one of the more lackluster signets give +25% movement speed passive?….. Pleeeeeease.

LunarNacht.8913:

• Signet of Midnight – Passive: Improves boon duration. Active: Blind nearby foes.
  The passiv already has some synergy with Inspiration so it should stay. Looking at a build you would need a stun breaker here.

Signet of Midnight currently is a stun breaker.

Ryn.6459:

Xaylin.1860:

Ryn.6459:

Anet,
Is it possible to exchange positions of “shattered conditions” and “phantasmal haste”? I do think that both traits are in wrong trees.

I do agree on Phantasmal Haste. It doesn’t make any sense. Shattered Conditions is okay where it is. All supportive shatters are placed in Inspiration which offers shatter builds some diversity.

Actually there is no any supportive shatter in Inspiration. Also I don’t heard of any shatter build that runs with 30 on Inspiration.
For the typical shtatter with 30 on Illusions, shattered conditions will compete with Illusionary Invigoration (also a defensive trait).

How is Vigorous Revelation not a supportive shatter? It already is quite powerful and will become even more interesting when the Vigor nerf is through.

Right now, Inspiration is so unappealing for shatter Mesmers due to two reasons: 1. Most shatter Mesmers just want to go BOOM and deal damage. 2. There is no appealing shatter trait on the Master level and the Grandmaster traits are just lackluster when compared to IP or ID. The first issue will never be fixed. The second issue could be fixed if Malicious Sorcery was reworked to be more meaningful and Shattered Conditions was improved which actually is going to happen.

The Shattered Conditions buff is HUGE. With Mindwrack alone you will have 3 condition cleanses in a 600 radius. Every 10-15s. This is unarguably better than Nullfield. And maybe one of the best condition cleanses ingame. You could even bump it up to 4 conditions with IP. Or you could go for Shattered Concentration instead.

Since IC moved down to 15 you will be able to play a pretty strong supportive shatter build which does not even need any utility slot for removing conditions. Go 20/x/x/30/15 and put the remaining points where you please. Nice boon stripping, great group condition removal, high up time on group Vigor. For the cost of some damage (IP) or CC (ID). Or you could go for 10/0/0/30/30 if you don’t care for the boon stripping. And yes, you won’t have DE. You will have to use a Scepter.

Shatter Mesmers just need to get their head out of their butterfly and stop whining about the Inspiration minors. As if the Domination or Duelling minors were that great for shatter builds. The only totally undesirable minor is Phantasmal Strength but now that IC got switched there actually are no super exciting grandmaster minors left anyway.

Heya, time to talk about my main char (though not the case in PvP :P)

1)

Domination XII – Confounding Suggestions. Changed to increase daze duration by 25%.

This and the stun chance on daze makes it good. Moving toward an interrupt spec, something like GW1 mesmer’s role

2)

Dueling VI – Protected Mantras. Moved to Master Tier. Increase Toughness from 400 to 600.

Still meh for me but why not

3)

Dueling VII – Mantra Mastery. Moved to Adept Tier.

This one is more interesting indeed, makes it possible to have DE and this with only 20 points

4)

Chaos 25 – Chaotic Transference. Increased conversion from 5% to 10%.

Well, ok not a bad one

5)

Chaos I – Chaotic Revival. Reduced cooldown from 35s to 10s.

I still think it to be meh. Would be better if Chaos Storm triggered on downed than rallying. Would need higher CD, like 20-30 sec

6)

Chaos VII – Mirror of Anguish. Reduced cooldown from 90s to 60s.

OK

7)

Inspiration IV – Mender’s Purity. Now removes 2 conditions.

Given the poor condition removal on mesmer, that one is very good. Makes it pretty good trait

8)

Inspiration XI – Shattered Conditions. Increased radius from 240 to 600.

Nice support options !

9)

Illusions VI – Illusionary Invigoration. Recharge reduced from 90s to 60s. Moved to Master Tier.

Good one too !

10) Dazzling Glamour : Why not

11)

Illusions 25 – Illusionist’s Celerity – Moved to Master tier.

THIS. Now finally they realize this was a mistake to nerf it that hard, might have been better as a marjor adept trait … or not …
Anyway, much better at 15 than 25 …

12)

Scepter
Scepter is still missing something but we don’t want to overload the autoattack as we think that promotes more mindless play and are trying to move away from builds that focus so much on the “1” skill. I feel like that scepter should be the tricksy defender that can stop enemies from attacking and defend allies, but maybe it’s single target nature is keeping that from working.

Yes … but still #1 is really, really garbage … I know it can’t be buffed too much but just improved the speed of the chain would make it better, seriously

13)

Mimic
Last thought. This skill is for almost all intents and purposes just not working, but is causing some broken behavior with certain bosses. I would like to replace it with a complete redesign and am open to discussion on that as well.

Agree a whole redesign would be better.

14) The forgotten ones :
- Phantasmal Mage still one of the worst weapon skill in the game
- Arcane Thievery : for only 3 transferred, CD is way too high, especially given it easily fails with block or dodge. Either reduce CD to like 30 sec or make it unblockable/undodgeable. (only avoiding and invuln would prevent it then)
- Phantasmal Disenchanter : still pretty bad phantasm … make it attack much faster ?

Thank you for reading

Esquire.2809:

A suggestion for scepter auto-attack:

1. Make Ether Bolt a projectile finisher.
2. Make Ether Blast a blast finisher.
3. The Ether Bolt cast by clones would also be a projectile finisher.

• Scepter is the only mesmer weapon without a finisher. Even our underwater weapons have finishers.
• Creates interesting possibilities with glamors, which synergizes well with the Inspiration trait line.
• Adds potential for both AoE and support capabilities in groups.
• Enhances conditions builds without creating a spammy quality to it.
• Gives an alternative (or compliment) to staff as a defensive weapon in holding points in PvP
• The projectile speed needs to be increased or the pre-cast animation reduced, or both.

Cool ideas. More than anything else though, the #1 needs a reduction to its aftercast so the chain casts faster (your last point). That is easily the most broken thing about the weapon, and it is on several other weapons in the game too (Thief MH Pistol).

Xaylin.1860:

Ryn.6459:

Xaylin.1860:

Ryn.6459:

Anet,
Is it possible to exchange positions of “shattered conditions” and “phantasmal haste”? I do think that both traits are in wrong trees.

I do agree on Phantasmal Haste. It doesn’t make any sense. Shattered Conditions is okay where it is. All supportive shatters are placed in Inspiration which offers shatter builds some diversity.

Actually there is no any supportive shatter in Inspiration. Also I don’t heard of any shatter build that runs with 30 on Inspiration.
For the typical shtatter with 30 on Illusions, shattered conditions will compete with Illusionary Invigoration (also a defensive trait).

How is Vigorous Revelation not a supportive shatter? It already is quite powerful and will become even more interesting when the Vigor nerf is through.

Right now, Inspiration is so unappealing for shatter Mesmers due to two reasons: 1. Most shatter Mesmers just want to go BOOM and deal damage. 2. There is no appealing shatter trait on the Master level and the Grandmaster traits are just lackluster when compared to IP or ID. The first issue will never be fixed. The second issue could be fixed if Malicious Sorcery was reworked to be more meaningful and Shattered Conditions was improved which actually is going to happen.

The Shattered Conditions buff is HUGE. With Mindwrack alone you will have 3 condition cleanses in a 600 radius. Every 10-15s. This is unarguably better than Nullfield. And maybe one of the best condition cleanses ingame. You could even bump it up to 4 conditions with IP. Or you could go for Shattered Concentration instead.

Since IC moved down to 15 you will be able to play a pretty strong supportive shatter build which does not even need any utility slot for removing conditions. Go 20/x/x/30/15 and put the remaining points where you please. Nice boon stripping, great group condition removal, high up time on group Vigor. For the cost of some damage (IP) or CC (ID). Or you could go for 10/0/0/30/30 if you don’t care for the boon stripping. And yes, you won’t have DE. You will have to use a Scepter.

Shatter Mesmers just need to get their head out of their butterfly and stop whining about the Inspiration minors. As if the Domination or Duelling minors were that great for shatter builds. The only totally undesirable minor is Phantasmal Strength but now that IC got switched there actually are no super exciting grandmaster minors left anyway.

Your are completly right. Thank you for sharing.

@Xaylin: Well, the reason I grab Confounding over Harmonious (though both are pretty solid choices) is because the stun is that much better than a daze. The stun has a stronger psychological PANIC-effect on players, helps to keep them from running away, and aids in escaping when you need to run. That immobilize makes a huge difference, as you can still dodge while dazed. However if I were to take another Mantra, such as MoRecovery or MoResolve, I’d grab Harmonious instead.

Basically, I wouldn’t grab Harmonious for only one additional daze if I have the potential to turn the 5 dazes I already have into stuns. 2 or more Mantras would be a different story, though.

As far as signets go, i wouldn’t mind at all having a mesmer version of the ele signet auramancer (i.e 20/10/10/30/0), making it a support oriented build.

Which would be fine if paired with a mantra redesign – atm useful manly for the Restorative/Empowering Mantras gimmicks.

From an elementalist thread

Treborlavok.3504:

Treborlavok.3504:

just like the guardians 5 trait for vigor on crit… its ok for them to have a 10 second single condition cure at adept…?

The Guardian and Mesmer vigor traits are something that were on the table and will be on the table for change in the future. We don’t like those traits being that easily accessible. While they haven’t yet been changed as long as our thoughts don’t change internally they are part of the vigor rework we want to do.

=/

In regards to the scepter, I’ve been pondering.

On one hand, we don’t want to entice #1 smashing. That’s mindless play. I’m all for this and have been an advocate for removing a lot of the incidental junk from a lot of #1 skills across the board. On the other hand, our clones are mindless. If they’re not applying conditions, then they offer very little prior to shatters and trait bonuses.

The question then becomes: how can we make clone auto-attacks integrate into intelligent play?

I feel like it’s possible, and the scepter would be a good start. For example, what if Ether Bolt applied something like stacks of Ether Potential? What would Ether Potential do? Nothing. But, each shatter could consume all stacks of Ether Potential to provide an extra bonus. Maybe if stacked Mind Wrack converts EP stacks to Vulnerability or bonus damage while Cry of Frustration produces Torment, just as very lazy examples. It could stack on either the enemy, like Impale, or maybe on self, like the “stack to 25” sigils. Both produce interesting possibilities.

Essentially, the goal is to make those “mindless” stacks something that has to be exploited with at least some thought.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Basically, I wouldn’t grab Harmonious for only one additional daze if I have the potential to turn the 5 dazes I already have into stuns. 2 or more Mantras would be a different story, though.

But that’s the issue. You are talking about a very specific weapon set. This does not apply to builds with GS or Focus. It only applies to Pistol to a lesser extend. Especially the GS part is a bit ironic since it is associated with Domination. You really have to pile up dazes to make CS worthwile. So when only having 4 dazes (e.g. F3, MoD, Sw4) you might prefer HM. There is no difference “duration wise” and CS provides the chance for stuns. But HM provides an additional interrupt.

Ryn.6459:

Your are completly right. Thank you for sharing.

I’m not sure if you really agree or are upset and annoyed by my view of things.
Sorry, if the second is the case. I didn’t mean to be opinionated.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

From an elementalist thread

Treborlavok.3504:

Treborlavok.3504:

just like the guardians 5 trait for vigor on crit… its ok for them to have a 10 second single condition cure at adept…?

The Guardian and Mesmer vigor traits are something that were on the table and will be on the table for change in the future. We don’t like those traits being that easily accessible. While they haven’t yet been changed as long as our thoughts don’t change internally they are part of the vigor rework we want to do.

=/

Yup. Also read that one. I’m curious about how they are going to manage it. They are already reverting back the Elementalist change if I’m not mistaken. And switching around minors would also not change much for Mesmers and Guardians because many people invest more than 5-10 points into those traitlines.

Maybe they nerf the chance on crit or something. I just hope they don’t overdo it…

Xaylin.1860:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Basically, I wouldn’t grab Harmonious for only one additional daze if I have the potential to turn the 5 dazes I already have into stuns. 2 or more Mantras would be a different story, though.

But that’s the issue. You are talking about a very specific weapon set. This does not apply to builds with GS or Focus. It only applies to Pistol to a lesser extend. Especially the GS part is a bit ironic since it is associated with Domination. You really have to pile up dazes to make CS worthwile. So when only having 4 dazes (e.g. F3, MoD, Sw4) you might prefer HM. There is no difference “duration wise” and CS provides the chance for stuns. But HM provides an additional interrupt.

I wouldn’t call that an “issue” per se. Specific weapon sets are going to work better with specific traits – that’s a universal thing. In this case Staff and Sw/Sw are the best to maximize CS due to the daze procs in both weapon sets. In your example there yeah, if you took GS or Focus the better choice would be HM if you decided to to 30 into domination.

Is the “issue” you’re referring to the fact that you are pigeon-holed into a specific weapon set to make CS worth taking?

One thing I keep noticing in mesmer builds is that there are no grandmaster skills that are really essential. I just don’t see 30 points in any of the trait lines.

skcamow.3527:

Is the “issue” you’re referring to the fact that you are pigeon-holed into a specific weapon set to make CS worth taking?

Partly.

I think it is okay if a grandmaster trait works better with certain weapon sets. E.g. PU works best with Torch. But you don’t have to pick Torch and it can still work. I don’t think that CS is a bad trait. But it requires a way too specific set up to make it work. And it can also be replaced by other traits (HM or CI).

JonPeters.5630:

Scepter
Scepter is still missing something but we don’t want to overload the autoattack as we think that promotes more mindless play and are trying to move away from builds that focus so much on the “1” skill. I feel like that scepter should be the tricksy defender that can stop enemies from attacking and defend allies, but maybe it’s single target nature is keeping that from working.

I don’t know anyone who would seriously consider using scepter in a dungeon. It’ll need a LOT of tweaks to make that happen.
In PvP however giving it some kind of aoe won’t do much, how often do you see anything besides area denial aoes used in real pvp?
Remove clone generation. Give it something useful and fitting with mesmers. A condition application on the final swing would be nice, it would then be able to compete with staff on condi builds.

still waiting for that dual wield GS buff for mesmers only

Hey,
since the trait Vengeful Images got nerfed to only apply 5s of retaliation I though of another way how this trait could be effective.

Why isn’t it good atm:

• phantasms are often 1/2 hit by pve mobs so it will only tick 1/2 times retaliation
• players don’t often focus phantasms (most ignore them)
• players need time to realise a phantasm. most time the buff is gone when the phantasm gets hit the first time.

What I suggest for this trait:
move this to 15 or even 25 points and change its functionality to something like this:

When a phantasm dies it creates an aoe field (radius 120) that deals damage for 3-5 seconds

OR

When a phantasm dies it becomes invulnerable and attacks a last time. After that attack it dies

OR

When a phantasm dies it causes a shattereffect around it’s location

OR

When a phantasm dies it will daze your enemy ICD 10s

OR

Just undo the nerf and scale it to master/grandmaster

~Me Games Ma

Me Games Ma.8426:

Hey,
since the trait Vengeful Images got nerfed to only apply 5s of retaliation I though of another way how this trait could be effective.
(…)
~Me Games Ma

OR : just make it 10-15 seconds instead of 5 and leave it where it is.

Esquire.2809:

A suggestion for scepter auto-attack:

1. Make Ether Bolt a projectile finisher.
2. Make Ether Blast a blast finisher.
3. The Ether Bolt cast by clones would also be a projectile finisher.

• Scepter is the only mesmer weapon without a finisher. Even our underwater weapons have finishers.
• Creates interesting possibilities with glamors, which synergizes well with the Inspiration trait line.
• Adds potential for both AoE and support capabilities in groups.
• Enhances conditions builds without creating a spammy quality to it.
• Gives an alternative (or compliment) to staff as a defensive weapon in holding points in PvP
• The projectile speed needs to be increased or the pre-cast animation reduced, or both.

I think this suggestion is almost perfect, but if the blast finisher on the second attack proves to be OP (as I think it might) then here is my slight variation and some examples of how simply changing the first two scepter auto-attacks (as well as clone attacks) to 100% projectile finishers would play out.

1. Ether Bolt: Shoot a bolt of energy at your target. 100% projectile finisher.
2. Ether Blast: Shoot a second bolt of energy at your target. 100% projectile finisher.
3. Ether Clone: Shoot out a third bolt of energy that damages your target. Summon a clone that casts Ether Bolt.

• Opens up interesting weapon combinations such as scepter/focus by using the light field of Temporal Curtain as a way to remove 2 conditions with the first 2 auto-attacks of the scepter.

• Using Veil in much the same way as above to remove 2 conditions and then stealth.

• Firing through an ethereal field would apply two stacks of confusion solidifying it’s identity as a confusion weapon.

• More varied interplay with other combo fields such as being able to life-steal through a necromancers dark field at range or applying burning to a target unwilling to cross through a fire field (Burning Speed / Ring of Fire).

• The clones would be creating the same effects but since they are usually grouped around the target would serve mainly to reapply chill/burning/poison/blind etc. for as long as the target stands in the combo field. The most powerful scenario for the clones would be standing within an ethereal field as they will be sustaining around 4 stacks of confusion on the target while the field lasts (with 3 clones). Combos like life-steal, regeneration & condition removal will have little impact on the clones and so balance this.

• In dungeons and group events scepter would have more support utility, even if used by a non-condition build. The clones would at least be adding duration to any combo fields put down while waiting to be shattered and the scepters auto-attacks would help keep the mesmer and the team alive (regeneration, life-steal, chill, weakness, blindness).

• Since players in PvP and WvW hopefully don’t just stand in combo fields this change would indirectly help re-balancing PvE with regards to Confusion. More stacks of confusion for NPCs standing in an ethereal field, punishing the mindless being a mesmer specialty.

• Extremely easy for the Devs to dial in the right strength of this after testing by adjusting percentages if needed.

In short it makes the scepter more tricksy and supportive, more situationally random not just RNG. More like the unpredictably confusing magicians wand it was intended to be.

Make the reveal debuff apply to mesmers already!

Bacon.4918:

Make the reveal debuff apply to mesmers already!

Try to play a mesmer before posting on the forums, maybe you’ll notice that we already get the revealed debuff, and in many silly ways (bouncing attacks for example)

I know it’s not up in the discussed changes, but I’ve had this idea for a while.

Since clones are aoe fodder in WvW, and are weak in zerg situations, shattering can be ineffective much of the time.

I suggest making clones invulnerable upon hitting the f1-f3 skills. That way they can run through a zerg to their intended target without being eaten alive by aoe and weapon 1 spam. They can still be dodged, of course.

CS might be better if it was stun duration + maybe 60% – 70% change dazes to stun, we have multitude of applying dazes already. At the same time can someone explain to me. How will CS work with daze duration? So the daze duration will only be worth it if CS does not proc. Mesmer rune + CS daze duration is almost 2s daze then RNG will change it to a stun of 1s. Personally 2s daze is better coz you hold off an enemy longer. Stun is nice because bec of the better cc effect than daze, but trading 2-3s of daze to a 1 sec stun IMO is not worth it. It seems like the skill effect contradicts itself.

Menaka.5092:

Bacon.4918:

Make the reveal debuff apply to mesmers already!

Try to play a mesmer before posting on the forums, maybe you’ll notice that we already get the revealed debuff, and in many silly ways (bouncing attacks for example)

How would you react when I told you that the most Mesmer players go in stealth whiteout even knowing that they had the debuff? The Mesmer IS the only class that has a stealth skill that ignores revealed debuff. It’s just a single spell but I also think that they should fix this problem.

When a Mesmer uses decoy he’ll always be hidden even if he got the revealed debuff!

~ Me Games Ma

Xaylin.1860:

Ryn.6459:

Xaylin.1860:

Ryn.6459:

Anet,
Is it possible to exchange positions of “shattered conditions” and “phantasmal haste”? I do think that both traits are in wrong trees.

I do agree on Phantasmal Haste. It doesn’t make any sense. Shattered Conditions is okay where it is. All supportive shatters are placed in Inspiration which offers shatter builds some diversity.

Actually there is no any supportive shatter in Inspiration. Also I don’t heard of any shatter build that runs with 30 on Inspiration.
For the typical shtatter with 30 on Illusions, shattered conditions will compete with Illusionary Invigoration (also a defensive trait).

How is Vigorous Revelation not a supportive shatter? It already is quite powerful and will become even more interesting when the Vigor nerf is through.

Right now, Inspiration is so unappealing for shatter Mesmers due to two reasons: 1. Most shatter Mesmers just want to go BOOM and deal damage. 2. There is no appealing shatter trait on the Master level and the Grandmaster traits are just lackluster when compared to IP or ID. The first issue will never be fixed. The second issue could be fixed if Malicious Sorcery was reworked to be more meaningful and Shattered Conditions was improved which actually is going to happen.

The Shattered Conditions buff is HUGE. With Mindwrack alone you will have 3 condition cleanses in a 600 radius. Every 10-15s. This is unarguably better than Nullfield. And maybe one of the best condition cleanses ingame. You could even bump it up to 4 conditions with IP. Or you could go for Shattered Concentration instead.

Since IC moved down to 15 you will be able to play a pretty strong supportive shatter build which does not even need any utility slot for removing conditions. Go 20/x/x/30/15 and put the remaining points where you please. Nice boon stripping, great group condition removal, high up time on group Vigor. For the cost of some damage (IP) or CC (ID). Or you could go for 10/0/0/30/30 if you don’t care for the boon stripping. And yes, you won’t have DE. You will have to use a Scepter.

Shatter Mesmers just need to get their head out of their butterfly and stop whining about the Inspiration minors. As if the Domination or Duelling minors were that great for shatter builds. The only totally undesirable minor is Phantasmal Strength but now that IC got switched there actually are no super exciting grandmaster minors left anyway.

How on earth do you want to play a shatter build half decently, without Deceptive Evasion? 20/x/x/30/15? What kind of madness is this?

What you need for a shatter build is x/20/x/x/x. With the patch, x/20/x/x/15 looks inviting. Putting 30 into Inspiration for shatter still sounds like a bad idea for what you have to give up on the other side.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Menaka.5092:

Bacon.4918:

Make the reveal debuff apply to mesmers already!

Try to play a mesmer before posting on the forums, maybe you’ll notice that we already get the revealed debuff, and in many silly ways (bouncing attacks for example)

How would you react when I told you that the most Mesmer players go in stealth whiteout even knowing that they had the debuff? The Mesmer IS the only class that has a stealth skill that ignores revealed debuff. It’s just a single spell but I also think that they should fix this problem.

When a Mesmer uses decoy he’ll always be hidden even if he got the revealed debuff!

~ Me Games Ma

It’s not the only class. I watched a thief stealth on his fall damage reduction trait while having revealed (unless it ended right before his impact which is unlikely as he was targeted and I didn’t see it go down). And no, it does not need “fixed.” Its duration does not stack with other stealth skills.

On confounding suggestions, I’d really much rather it proc at 100% chance torment on daze. Then if it swap space with furious interruption then maybe condi shatter can become a thing. But in any case torment synergizes well with daze, allowing for some soft movement denial, some degen panic, and no stupid RNG.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

How on earth do you want to play a shatter build half decently, without Deceptive Evasion? 20/x/x/30/15? What kind of madness is this?

What you need for a shatter build is x/20/x/x/x. With the patch, x/20/x/x/15 looks inviting. Putting 30 into Inspiration for shatter still sounds like a bad idea for what you have to give up on the other side.

People should really learn how to keep an open mind .

First, if you are so attached to DE, then go 0/20/0/30/30. You will lose some Mind Wrack damage and won’t be able to strip boons. But the stuff I said a bove remains. It would be a very strong supportive shatter build. I don’t see how getting Shattered Conditions and Vigorous Revelation does not make up for the loss in 20 Domination. It does make up for it. It is just unappealing for people who are insisting on maximum damage.

Second, the other thing you should be aware of: They are going to nerf Critical Infusion. They don’t know how yet. They might swap it to a different spot (15 minor won’t change anything, 25 minor would be horrible but who knows what they think is best). They might reduce the procc chance (e.g. only 50% chance on crit) which will make quite a difference for shatter Mesmers since they do not attack as constantly as other builds and will make it useless to any support or bunker Mesmer since they often lack precision. Or they might attach an ICD which would result in a 50% less up time (since 10s ICD are most likely imho) for all shatter Mesmers because they usually do not bring any boon duration. This is going to happen. It is not an IF question but a WHEN and HOW question. In every case DE will be A LOT less appealing for shatter Mesmers if you are not running Vigorous Revelation (if they do not nerf it, too).

Ross Biddle.2367:

I know it’s not up in the discussed changes, but I’ve had this idea for a while.

Since clones are aoe fodder in WvW, and are weak in zerg situations, shattering can be ineffective much of the time.

I suggest making clones invulnerable upon hitting the f1-f3 skills. That way they can run through a zerg to their intended target without being eaten alive by aoe and weapon 1 spam. They can still be dodged, of course.

That would be a pretty powerful change. They might still be dodged but the question is: When to dodge? You do not necessarily know if the clones will shatter on you or someone else. Making them invulnerable will make countering them nearly impossible.

A change which was done in DAoC – I think – which I could see for every pet ingame (illusions, turrets, minions, ranger pets, spirit weapons, elementals … yadda yadda): Make them less vulnerable to area effects. Something like “Take a maximum of x% of their maxium health as damage when hit by an area effect.” The threshold could be different for each pet to balance it for their respective purpose. It would make pet usage in larger fights a lot more profitable without making them too strong. You could kill them with single target or cleave attacks. However, you will have to invest time on killing them, giving their death some purpose.

Zen.4678:

It’s not the only class. I watched a thief stealth on his fall damage reduction trait while having revealed (unless it ended right before his impact which is unlikely as he was targeted and I didn’t see it go down). And no, it does not need “fixed.” Its duration does not stack with other stealth skills.

Sorry I believe you just didn’t notice that it has ended short time before.
Do you have a proofe for the thief thing? This is the proof for my post.

I just tryed out the falling thief thing and I was Immune to stealth!

About scepter auto-attack:
A lot of people hate the auto clone generation, so would be nice if we can choose to generate or not.

My suggestion is to create a new combo skill called Ether Bomb and, like Illusionary Counter, if you press button 1 during the Ether Bomb charge time, will swap with Ether Clone.

A blast finisher on autoattack? That would be totally OP…

Xaylin.1860:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

How on earth do you want to play a shatter build half decently, without Deceptive Evasion? 20/x/x/30/15? What kind of madness is this?

What you need for a shatter build is x/20/x/x/x. With the patch, x/20/x/x/15 looks inviting. Putting 30 into Inspiration for shatter still sounds like a bad idea for what you have to give up on the other side.

People should really learn how to keep an open mind .

First, if you are so attached to DE, then go 0/20/0/30/30. You will lose some Mind Wrack damage and won’t be able to strip boons. But the stuff I said a bove remains. It would be a very strong supportive shatter build. I don’t see how getting Shattered Conditions and Vigorous Revelation does not make up for the loss in 20 Domination. It does make up for it. It is just unappealing for people who are insisting on maximum damage.

Second, the other thing you should be aware of: They are going to nerf Critical Infusion. They don’t know how yet. They might swap it to a different spot (15 minor won’t change anything, 25 minor would be horrible but who knows what they think is best). They might reduce the procc chance (e.g. only 50% chance on crit) which will make quite a difference for shatter Mesmers since they do not attack as constantly as other builds and will make it useless to any support or bunker Mesmer since they often lack precision. Or they might attach an ICD which would result in a 50% less up time (since 10s ICD are most likely imho) for all shatter Mesmers because they usually do not bring any boon duration. This is going to happen. It is not an IF question but a WHEN and HOW question. In every case DE will be A LOT less appealing for shatter Mesmers if you are not running Vigorous Revelation (if they do not nerf it, too).

Ross Biddle.2367:

I know it’s not up in the discussed changes, but I’ve had this idea for a while.

Since clones are aoe fodder in WvW, and are weak in zerg situations, shattering can be ineffective much of the time.

I suggest making clones invulnerable upon hitting the f1-f3 skills. That way they can run through a zerg to their intended target without being eaten alive by aoe and weapon 1 spam. They can still be dodged, of course.

That would be a pretty powerful change. They might still be dodged but the question is: When to dodge? You do not necessarily know if the clones will shatter on you or someone else. Making them invulnerable will make countering them nearly impossible.

A change which was done in DAoC – I think – which I could see for every pet ingame (illusions, turrets, minions, ranger pets, spirit weapons, elementals … yadda yadda): Make them less vulnerable to area effects. Something like “Take a maximum of x% of their maxium health as damage when hit by an area effect.” The threshold could be different for each pet to balance it for their respective purpose. It would make pet usage in larger fights a lot more profitable without making them too strong. You could kill them with single target or cleave attacks. However, you will have to invest time on killing them, giving their death some purpose.

Powerful, or a reality? Clone shatters are our long range AoE attacks. At long range they’re slow and you can see them coming. To compare, imagine if with spammed sword swings or some randomly placed AoE attacks at your feet you could destroy incoming meteors from meteor shower. They can still be dodged, of course, but if other classes AoE effects cant be destroyed before reaching their target/location, why not clones upon shatter?

I have a suggestion that is completely different. How come NPCs you are fighting automatically “always” attack you and not your clones? A simple illustration of this is target an NPC apply “Mirror Images” which then rush the NPC (note you are taking no offensive action). The NPC immediately rushes pass the 2 clones and attacks you. What’s the point of the clones (must be PVP only) if NPCs are not fooled? There should be RNG involved in PVE combat that fools NPCs to your clones. If there already is RNG it is too low (especially when you hit “2” in a down state and notice how your clone is ignored over 80% of the time).

ANet knows, that if they nerf shatter any further, the build variety will shrink down to phantasm builds in PvE. Mainly one build to rule them all (10/20/0/25/15) and some niche ones, noone cares about.

Shatter, while sort of the class unique system, is no longer meta in PvP, Wv3 or PvE.

Actually, the mesmer feels more like a caster with pets around. That’s why I play a necro lately.

Profano.9514:

About scepter auto-attack:
A lot of people hate the auto clone generation, so would be nice if we can choose to generate or not.

My suggestion is to create a new combo skill called Ether Bomb and, like Illusionary Counter, if you press button 1 during the Ether Bomb charge time, will swap with Ether Clone.

A blast finisher on an auto attack chain is too powerful. I’d rather the third hit apply 1 stack of 5 second torment and have the cast time reduced than to see it be a blast finisher.