Guild Wars 2

Seras.5702:

The patch will unlock all major traits (adept, master, grandmaster) that exist prior to the patch

Not just what you personally unlock.

I use GS+Staff on my Mesmer. The build is focused on damage, crits, boon duration (Staff 4, 5 are much more effective) and signets (= passive healings every 3sec, 3sec distortion extra, 3x condie removers, 1x stunbreak/blind, +10% boon duration and random boons every 10sec plus the ability to spread them out).
The idea behind the build is using Staff skills to keep condies on enemies and let the Berserker and the Warlock do the damage. I don’t really care about condie damage, I just use them to increase Warlock damage, and the Berserker also add cripple (that is damage and +10% for the Warlock attack).
Warlocks use to hit 1,7k-7k (depends on crits + condies on my target) and can even hit 10-12k on bosses (ty Necros :P), that means 30k-36k with 3 Warlocks out (20-24k are more often reachable).
Mobility: rune of Traveler (25% perma-speed), Staff 5 (4sec swiftness random is not much effective, but can help), 15sec swiftness random from SoInspiration, Phase Retreat and Blink (maxed with FRM and MoM = 1.200 units every 24sec).
20/20/30/0/0 (3 traits for signets, 2 for manipulation, 2 traits to fasten CS and Staff). That’s all I need to go.

Oh, kitten . Now I see. Well, there goes my excuse to my gf on why I have to spend all my available time playing GW2!

I actually like the idea of having to do fun stuff to unlock individual traits. I’m sure someone will put together a list of what you need to do for each trait so those with existing characters can still go out and do the activities even though they’re already unlocked.

Sorry for the brief derailment, back to the topic!

Hello Fellow Mesmers!

I’ve been out of the mesmer game for a while, trying out different professions. I wanted to try something different, as I felt like I was not particularly useful/powerful in PvE play unless I went with a mantra build. Maybe I wasn’t playing it right, but even then I didn’t feel very “powerful” like an “epic hero”, and I didn’t really like the mantra build play style anyway. I’ve been dungeoneering with a zerk thief, and at least now I feel like I can really sway battles in my team’s favor.

Anyway, I’ve been trying to catch up with all the upcoming changes to mesmer and I’m wondering: is a build like the Maniac Magician going to be viable in PvE play now? I’m referring specifically to the changes to scepter AA and the fix to IE. I know we still have the condi-stack limits, but idk, maybe there’s something I’m missing that will allow this to work? I know the double-whammy to DD doesn’t really help things any.

I just love the idea of trying to smartly use your clones with projectiles bouncing all over the place to be so cool. It fits in with my idea of what my kind of mesmer would be: chaotic. My mesmer laughing maniacally while balls of chaos bounce all over the battlefield. Clones reappearing as soon as they’re destroyed. Going in and out of stealth. It all feels very mesmeric, but I’m afraid that something like this is still only viable in WvW or PvP (or maybe not even there).

Oh, and in case you’re just jumping to the end, I encourage you to read (or re-read if you’ve been here before) the OP, as he put a lot of time and thought into it. Thoughts?

Dude.. This is just PU…

So just as terrible in PvE as it’s always been?

As long as any other class can overwrite your condi’s (or u lose all of ur condi dmg when another class takes the stack) then yes, it will still be poor in pve.

sirrealist.1360:

So just as terrible in PvE as it’s always been?

not really, I would use staff warlock on really huge hp world bosses. That +10% per unique condition really shows. It might be better alternative than pistol clones. I wonder if somebody has the data

I wont step foot in PvP without my staff, and I’m either playing interrupt or shatter burst.

So, any chance this build is viable in PvE, now that conditions don’t overwrite each other?

Holy baby-meow! I started reading and was like “wtf?” until I’ve suddenly realized this thread is more than one year old already…

And uhm; as for your question, sirrealist… in group-content (PvE), condi-Mesmer isn’t considered to be a very good choice, for all I know. However, for open world or solo-ing dungeons, condi-Mesmer can be a decent choice. Although I wouldn’t take torch offhand for that, but pistol (or focus maybe).

Yeah, I played some living world season 2 content with this, and was having a hard(ish) time. Not unplayable, but just slow… especially anytime I had to destroy objects. It was fun to try out again, but I ended up swapping back to power. Oh well.

Had a similar response to Saturn. Stopped playing a bit before HoT came out, but I really enjoyed staff mesmer. It’s very good at surviving and killed decently fast in pve. One of my favorite things in GW2 will always be the option to make enemy health bars melt with condi damage.

From questions on forums I got the impression that staff mesmer was easy mode with a limit to its effectiveness. I began to get that feeling as well from spamming pvp, though I quite enjoyed the play style. And as for pve, yes destroying objects is a pain, though that’s true for all condi builds as the largest part of your dps isn’t helping.

OP here.

I have not checked this in a long long time. It is kinda nice to see people still posting, though I am VERY surprised that the responses seem to be about the same after all this time. Guys, we are in a bit of a condi meta right now. This build was always strong in pvp, it is even more so now (as some of the skills and traits of this build have been changed since I created this thread). In PvE it certainly was never part of a zerk speed group – but now with the boosts to the Scepter, boosts to Confusion, and trait changes it is VERY good in pve.

I still use this exact same build. Well, there’s been the game wide trait re-work since but yea I use this same thing. I loved the trait re-work’s effect on this build. If anyone wants me to go over the changes please ask. Otherwise I will assume you guys are educated game-wise already.

PvE: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhUQNAW7flknhi0YjawMNwtGLvGUZC6d0MXxMGBaAy5RA-TxxYwA/U/59TAYhSQ4XEAR6GGt/AAlfkCYRlVA-e

sPvP: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7flknhi0YjawMNwtGLvGEaAy5RKTQvjm5KmxIA-TJBBABAcRAErMgg7PsxTAAA

I spent months back at launch fine tuning this setup (remember back then there were a lot of things we were still figuring out about the game that are common knowledge now). I made it so that every single skill and trait has a purpose. There was nothing in this build that was superfluous. It was extremely efficient. It is still that way. There’s not even a minor trait that’s useless. Many many builds have pointless traits in them that you’ve got to take because you want the trait after it. This efficiency makes a big difference but it’s kinda subtle and unnoticed to people who just spam attacks and call it easy mode. There’s nuance in the skill-use-order that takes a long time to work out because you have to be knowledgeable enough about this build to know every trait and every skill and whether it is currently on cd or not at any given moment. Only with that kind of knowledge can you properly decide what to do. Do not use this build with a set skill rotation and expect to be able to judge it. I know that many people who’ve viewed this post and tried to have done that. I know because of the vanilla detail they give in their responses.

Sirrealist:
The thing about this build is that you can ignore your defensive strategies and blow cooldowns to stack condis from both weapons and all Shatters. When you’ve put 14 stacks of confusion, 6+ stacks of Torment, and are putting burn and bleed constantly your dmg is very high. Also note from the build link that I use condi duration food and sigils. Most people who’ve tried this build after reading the post don’t spend the money for that stuff just to test. So their comments about dmg ouput are bunk anyway. People whine about it being expensive but it is a huge bonus to dmg output. Huge. And worth the money since money’s not that hard to come buy. Yes there are higher dmg output builds. But If you want to be MAX dmg then mesmer isn’t the class for you anyhow. The dmg output of this build is also very constant which I like.

Yes it is ridiculously irritating to destroy object with this (or any other condi class) but this’s a TEAM game. so hopefully you have people on your team who can help with that. Just as you can help them with a variety of strategies this build provides.

Kury:
Nice to meet another fan of Mesmer Staff but I gotta say in sPvP it can be so much more than easy mode. It CAN be easy mode though so let me clarify. The Staff/Scepter+Torch can be very defensive, mobile, and evasive. Using it you can harass someone and stay alive for a long time. And this is not hard to do. But a halfway decent opponent won’t die to this kind of play. So people do often think that it is fun, easy, and limited. I have had several good friends in GW2 who see what I do and wanted to try it out since I’ve been doing it for so freaking long. They loved it for a while. They felt survivable, had fun messing with people etc etc. But these friends tired quickly of that and found that they could not take on 3 people at a time without running, could not kill good opponents, and felt like they could not reproduce my results. So I talked to them about some of the strategies that I use and they got a little better. Most of them did eventually go back to their own personally preferred set-ups but they did see the potential for the kind of subtlety that changes it from kinda lame easy mode to serious kitten. Below are some general ideas that can start you off on the more nuanced play of the staff in sPvP.

Set skill rotations. That is the first and biggest mistake. The Staff and Scepter are reactionary weapons. You use your skills based on what your opponent does. Using a rotation is blind. Most people play offensive so much they do not understand how to use the staff. When offensive your focus is on attacking accurately. With the Staff your focus is to move accurately. The clones and your auto attack do the dmg. Then right when your opponent least expects it you Shatter and go to Scepter to go more offensive. Or you do the opposite. Pressure them with Scepter till they ‘know’ you can’t have many skills up and then swith to staff so that their offensive push does nothing but fail, killing their morale. If you get to the point where you have no pattern, no predicable skill rotation, you can play mind games that not just irritate skilled opponents but destroy them.

Illusionary Counter/Scepter2. Do you use this for offense (it does Torment) or defense (it blocks an attack) or clone generation (it creates a clone on successful block) or Blind (it can be activated a second time to blind a foe)? See it is multi purpose. It has 4 possible effects. Which effect you use it for matters. Don’t simply use it; use it with intention. It is not vanilla, not spam-worthy. The nuance is picky and awesome with this skill. Not part of a rotation: it should be used situationally.

Chaos Storm/Staff5. Hopefully I do not have to tell you that you should always use Phase Retreat/Staff2 in it to give yourself Chaos Armor – which gives you boons, weakness and other condis to foes, and reduces the CD on all Staff skills. Use Chaos storm+Chaos armor when rezzing an ally. Use Chaos Storm to interrupt someone who’s rezzing a foe. These are easy. But in combat how you use it comes down to assessing the situation and making the right choice. Use on yourself+clones at the beginning of a fight. The boons help nullify the initial attempts of your foe(s). But some people don’t start the fight with lots of burst RIGHT off the bat, so you gotta pay attention. So when do you use it offensively? Only when they’re health is low. The poison from it will reduce how much they can heal, and the interrupt it can provide might interrupt their heal. But you’ve got to use other stuff with it to put pressure – it’s not an over powered skill by itself. As for what to use with it, when, and against whom I will leave to you to figure out your own preferances.

Blowing Cooldowns. Sometimes blowing all your cooldowns to seriously pressure an opponent can be very strong but it does leave you vulnerable. It is risky. Doing this adds a whole ‘nother dimension to this build. If you do it at the wrong time and it doesn’t pay off you die. If you do it at the right time you make get a kill. Or you can do it make an opponent back off when you are almost dead yourself. Scepter3, plus F2, plus more illusion summoning (which may mean you have to waste decoy), plus F1 or F3, plus Scepter 2 followed by a cloak or Choas Storm can be devastating. But you’ve used most of your big skills AND your Weapon Swap. Knowing capabilities of the various classes you’re up against is vital to using this strategy. Again I have to re-iterate that there is no skill rotation. Even with blowing cooldowns do you use Scepter 3 first? or Scepter 2? or F2? How many clones do you have out and how many could you summon? Which do you want them to condi clear b4 the rest of the burst? Are they likely to run? Confusion first then Torment. Are they likely to try to burst you down as they die? Torment then Confusion and Burning. Try to leave an out in case it goes south. Be ready to Blink away. Be ready to F4 (assuming you have a couple of illusions). At a high level the decision to make this kind of risk at the right time is how you take out skilled players.

F3 Shatter. Most people don’t use this much. Great mesmers do. Many of the clones you’ll have out are due to dodge rolling (Deceptive Evasion). This means they might not be targeted onto your target, but whoever was closest to you at the time instead. So in a group fight you can Daze multiple foes. This can turn the tide if your allies are any good. Or in a 1v1 use it Immediatly after Confusion to interrupt the attempt to remove it. Used with inexperience this wastes illusions making you more vulnerable. Used expertly this shatter provides proper transition between your own strategies and skill uses (uses, not rotations. never use set rotations with condi mesmer).

I hope this helped somebody. All of you guys are welcome to message me in game to duel, run spvp together, chat, ask questions or whatever you want. If what I’ve said does not convince you then please come see for yourself. If I run 30 matches of sPvP I might see 1 other mesmer using staff condi. Most are GS. But I do well for myself. This works and always has since launch. The nay-sayers simply have not developed the skill to do well. Remember guys the most rewarding things often take the most effort to learn.

Magnito:
I know you posted that over a year ago…but on the off chance that you are just ignorant and not a troll and for others’ benefit I’ll respond. So definining a whole build on one trait is ludicrous. PU mesmer is not a ‘thing’. You have GS PU, at one point in time you had Celestial Sword+Torch/Scepter+Sword PU, hard dmg PU, Condi PU. Simply put there is no ‘PU build’. Mesmers are the “masters of illusion” so if you have a problem with them going invisible maybe you should go way way back and read the original marketing and theme of the class. If you think PU is over-powered, then test it for yourself. I heard had people say that PU mesmers have 80% uptime of protection. That is ridiculous: protection is one of several RANDOM boons given to a PU mesmer while invisible and there is NO WAY to get the kind of invisibility uptime that thieves have so protection at 80% uptime is impossible. PU is just a trait. It’s a good one sure. But no where near as good as the Empathic Bond so many rangers use. But I do not call all rangers EB rangers. There are good traits and bad traits in every class. The hate that used to be (and still is sometimes) given to mesmers who trait PU is dumb.

While I personally think it’s a bit ridiculous, I do admire your dedication in responding to multiple month/year old posts.

Lol Fay. I went months and months without even looking at this. I have been experimenting a lot with mesmer builds (which I’ve always done) especially with Chronomancer. I always come back to my old Maniac Magician set-up. So I wondered today if in the current new meta, which is more condi heavy, if anyone re-thought their stance on Mesmer Staff and took a look at this old thread of mine. I decided to update it since I was here. It’s funny. I’ve been such a fan of staff mesmer for so long. But for so long the player base has been against it so I guess that’s where my “dedication” comes from. Its not dedication it is really stubbornness trying to get people to see what I see.

I was on sPvP a lot today, and died once. Once. I killed all kinds of classes and builds. I ran supply. I held at different times all the roles in a game, not just killing people. I was top 2 team player many times, and my teams won most of our matches. If staff was so bad I’d have dragged the wonderful teams I had down a bit.

No offense, but this build is quite simply woefully outdated. That doesn’t mean it’s completely ineffective or even bad, but it’s just a bit disingenuous to ignore the fact that a similar build using Chrono is just far better off.

- Rabid Amulet is bad as it leaves you with too low HPs in this high burst meta.
- Travelers Runes? Really? This alone almost makes Chrono worth it.
- Dueling becomes a requirement again, but Endurance regen has been nerfed heavily. Wasting dodges to produce Clones is also questionable at this point.

Not to mention you lack F5 Shatter, which is an absolute staple of Condie Shatter builds. Being able to double-up on your shatters is simply huge.

Staff is not bad, I agree. You can just do a lot better in a Chrono/Insp/Ill Condie Shatter build using Merc Amulet and a superior Runeset such as Torment, or Scavenging…

So, not to be a party pooper but…

Maniac Magee.2643:

I was on sPvP a lot today, and died once. Once.

This means nothing. You could have been fighting noobs, you could have been fighting in an extremely defensive way that didn’t help your team much.

Maniac Magee.2643:

I killed all kinds of classes and builds. I ran supply.

Oh. Stronghold.

Maniac Magee.2643:

I held at different times all the roles in a game, not just killing people. I was top 2 team player many times,

You can get top team player easily by running in circles doing nothing but cap points, but you’ll also be totally useless. This means nothing.

Maniac Magee.2643:

and my teams won most of our matches. If staff was so bad I’d have dragged the wonderful teams I had down a bit.

I…have no idea where you got this notion that everyone thinks staff is bad. It was a staple in double ranged shatter way back when, then it became a staple of many interrupt builds, it was a staple of PU condie during clone-death build era, it was a staple of condie shatter once MtD was introduced, and it’s still a staple of many builds now. Pretty much never has staff been regarded as an awful weapon. It has, and rightly so, been necessarily limited in what builds and what uses you apply it to…like any weapon in the game.

If you try and use staff in PvE, you’ll be rightly laughed at and kicked from the party. Staff is of limited effectiveness in large WvW groups…though the same could be said for most of our weapons. Outside of those, staff is usually pretty solid.

In a thread that’s been around for a year you have the most immature post. Most people post using quotations of previous posters to illustrate real points, each of yours were just snarky comments I’d expect out of an adolescent. I especially love the “Oh. Stronghold.” As if that says it all. It says nothing. Has no depth.

The staff has always been the least favorite Mesmer weapon, and I used to get crap from people everywhere I went in game for carrying one. How long have you been playing?

Anyway the purpose of this post is clearly for people who are interested in the staff and are looking for a positive opinion with some detail. You’ve not brought anything useful yet but please do if you feel you have it in you.

As much as i love Staff and have been using it for almost all my builds since release. Staff sucks monkey kitten now, the nerf to remove the blind was mostly what killed the weapon. If you dont plan to use Chaotic Dampening, then there is Absolutely no point in using it in PVP (Unless you like to phase retreat and the random stuns from chaostorm). You would just melt since HOTs power creep, melt like diarrhea in the hot sun. Dont bother taking this weapon

Maniac Magee.2643:

In a thread that’s been around for a year you have the most immature post. Most people post using quotations of previous posters to illustrate real points, each of yours were just snarky comments I’d expect out of an adolescent. I especially love the “Oh. Stronghold.” As if that says it all. It says nothing. Has no depth.

The staff has always been the least favorite Mesmer weapon, and I used to get crap from people everywhere I went in game for carrying one. How long have you been playing?

Anyway the purpose of this post is clearly for people who are interested in the staff and are looking for a positive opinion with some detail. You’ve not brought anything useful yet but please do if you feel you have it in you.

So I’m sorta curious now. You’ve made a pretty specific statement about getting hate for running staff, but it doesn’t match with my experiences at all; having used staff in my primary build where appropriate almost since the start of the game without gaps.

Specifically, where/how have you received so much hate about staff? Are you talking PvE or WvW or PvP, and what sort of builds were you running?

Additionally, saying that staff has always been the least favorite Mesmer weapon is not only untrue, it’s also patently absurd. Remember when the prestige had to be channeled to even function? Remember when scepter was practically twice as slow on skill 3, applied no torment, and the autoattack was even clunkier and slower? Scepter and torch for a very long time were rightfully shunned by almost everyone because they were so astoundingly godawful.

Fay your last paragraph asking me about staff hate is off topic. I’m here to talk about the staff and my build; just because I have mentioned general player-base dislike of the weapon does not mean it is the main subject.

Clicking on “view messages by user” it is apparent very quickly that you go from thread to thread to thread posting negatively. Most people may get sucked into negative exchanges with you but after I skimmed 30 of your posts in a row and saw nothing positive I figure there’s no point. I won’t be responding to anything else you post unless I feel it positively contributes to this post. I do hope that you have constructive influence somewhere.

Maniac Magee.2643:

Fay your last paragraph asking me about staff hate is off topic. I’m here to talk about the staff and my build; just because I have mentioned general player-base dislike of the weapon does not mean it is the main subject.

Clicking on “view messages by user” it is apparent very quickly that you go from thread to thread to thread posting negatively. Most people may get sucked into negative exchanges with you but after I skimmed 30 of your posts in a row and saw nothing positive I figure there’s no point. I won’t be responding to anything else you post unless I feel it positively contributes to this post. I do hope that you have constructive influence somewhere.

I’m not sure what sort of positivity you’re looking for? Staff is a great weapon, it always has been and probably always will be…but it can’t be used everywhere effectively, just like most weapons/mechanics. How about instead of being randomly positive I’ll give you some direct and fair feedback on the updated builds you posted. It’s not going to be positive, but it will be fair.

PvE build:

The best thing I can say about this one is that it’s definitely usable for open world content. It’ll be very slow, but fairly safe and will probably do enough damage to tag most champs and such. However, I’d feel ashamed bringing this build into a dungeon/fractal party, and any raid group worth their salt would ask you to change to a reasonable build or kick you.

The reasons for this is that the build just doesn’t provide anything to a party. Your dps is exceedingly low. Rabid gear is not good for damage anymore, and due to bounce mechanics the damage output of staff is literally halved when in a party as opposed to solo (each winds of chaos will hit an enemy once instead of twice, halving the damage).

Now, having exceedingly low dps is sorta a hallmark of Mesmer PvE builds, but it means you need to bring something else to make up for it. This takes the form of some sort of strong utility, which this build entirely lacks. You don’t have Chronomancer, and that means you can’t spread quickness and alacrity. You also provide no boon support whatsoever for your party, and there’s no need to take a Mesmer just for the aoe mantra cleanse.

So to recap: open world you could use this. It’ll be slow but fairly safe for exploring HoT. You’ll need to be wary of the reflects that those chak throw out though, since that’ll brick your damage. For anything outside of open world though, using this build is disrespectful to the other people you’re partied with.

PvP Build:

Generally speaking, it’ll work. You’ve got PU, torch trait, and the mantra for excellent condition removal and defensive slipperiness. You’ll be very difficult to kill, even for reapers.

Unfortunately, your offensive capabilities are extremely lacking. Your impact in group fights will be little to nonexistent. Compared to a standard build with chrono and shield, you have far less burst, far less control potential, sacrifice your runes for mobility, and opt for defensive capabilities that necessarily prevent you from having an offensive presence while you’re using them.

Overall, it’ll work. It’s not the worst build I’ve seen, in fact it’s not at all a bad build. It’s just old and behind the times of the power creep we’ve got now. Even in a 1v1, most classes (scrapper/reaper/rev/tempest) are going to be able to ignore your damage pressure and just sustain through it with little effort. You’ll do ok running this build, but you’ll just end up having very limited impact in fights when fighting skilled players.

I don’t think anyone could call this post positive, but I’m fairly confident most would agree that it is very fair. Feel free to disregard this post as you wish though.

Low damage out-put has been something people mention over and over again when talking about this kind of mesmer set-up. I am aware that there is a whole Meta built around maximizing damage both in the form of Burst Damage and Damage Per Second. Players who have both the advantage of creative intelligence and gratuitous free time literally crunch numbers to set efficient standards for damage out-put.

The Meta is established, informally, for a reason. But these meta-theory-crafters are not the only ones who toy and experiment. I remember toying with the Burn Guard set-up when it was first coming ’round. I killed the Warrior NPC in the Heart of the Mists in 13 seconds without using quickness to boost skill activation (I did re-test it recently to see if it still worked and it does). This build had no testing whatsoever for survivability or viability. I only wanted to maximize damage out-put so that I could better understand my opponents. But surely this has been improved upon. Not only did I not use the torch, but it was only 2 hours spent fooling around. Still it is fast. There are viable builds fully capable of killing sPvP opponents that do far less damage. Celestial D/D Ele reigned for quite some time with only moderate damage out-put.

I can kill the same NPC with the Maniac Magician build in 15 seconds. From start to stomp. Afterwards I still have my elite, Blink, Heal, Scepter 2 and 3 and 4, Staff 3 and 4, and F3 and F1 available. Not to mention several of the skills I did use do not have long cooldowns (F2 and Scepter 5 are not far from usable after the chain). THIS IS NOT LOW DAMAGE. I am aware of thieves and warriors and rangers and Dragon Hunters doing more DPS. I also know how fragile they have to make themselves to achieve such DPS focus. All but 1 of the skills I listed above as still available after the burst are defensive. This should tell anyone interested that The Maniac Magician’s balance between defense and damage is Functional.

I started this thread talking about the staff specifically, but have always always put forth the build as a whole for people to use. I also have mentioned the Blackwater Build (by Natsu if I remember correctly). It used to differ in it’s traits and weapon-focus in that the Scepter was more important. This used to be necessary due to the way Mesmer Traits were set up. I would guess that now the two builds are very much more similar with the Trait Re-work. But whether the two builds differ or not they both use(d) Staff/Scepter-Torch. This set-up can work. It always has worked.

I re-iterate once again: anyone who comes on here and tells you otherwise does not know what they are talking about. They either have not really looked at how the damage adds up (only looking at individual skills thinking they suck) or have tested superficially and decided without learning the intricacies of this set-up.

I encourage anyone actually interested in this play style to post questions. I’m willing to answer in form of a post or in-game. I am not here to try to sway people who’ve long since made up their minds. Please only post if you’re one of the former.

This thread that has been rezzed from the past was actually quite helpful to me in a way. When I first played mesmer (pve, I hate pvp, and may try wvw at some point), I played a staff/GS build while leveling. I went with Dire gear for my first set of exotics, and honestly, I had a lot of fun with that character. I don’t remember the traitlines I was running, but I didn’t use shatters much (new player, didn’t understand how to use the mechanic), and I used a mix of clones and phantasms. I didn’t understand the class that well, but I was having a lot of fun being tanky while everything around me wilted from condi damage.

It’s been almost a year since then, and I kinda have gotten lost on the class. I’ve been reading the forums (which has helped and hurt at the same time), reading the wiki, played almost every profession in the game (to 80 with the exception of rev and warr, working on those), and come to better understanding of a lot of the mechanics of the game (boon, duration, cast times, condi duration, active defenses, block, evade, etc). Mastered, no, not by a long shot. But Ive definitely hit the point where I feel I know alot, but not enough to be a pro. Skilled amateur probably.

So present day. Mesmer forums are about the most depressing part of the forums. Everyone complains about their class getting nerfed or unbalanced or something, but only here have I encountered the silent resignation and active deterrence of others playing the class because of the belief that it is that awful. And I can see the points being made in that vein. All of this at a time when I’m not sure what build to use for a mesmer, and no idea what to make.

This thread has if nothing else reminded me of my initial build. No yours isnt the same exactly, but it has a few points that makes me nostalgic for something like that old mesmer I started with, and a working idea of how to go about it.

I’m also getting over the meta thing. Most of the “meta” is either pvp-based (and thus invalid for my purposes), or raid-based (which I don’t have a lot of interest in anyways, and tbh would rather they hadn’t introduced, they could have stuck with more and harder dungeons). I’m working on builds that I simply enjoy playing. Will they be effective? Definitely more effective than what I started with a year ago. Will they be maxed dps? Probably not, though I do want to do alot of damage, but not if I’m gonna get downed regularly. I know alot of people say the berserker meta is best, and you just have to get better at active defenses, but that neglects the fact that that is a particular playstyle and not everyone is gonna enjoy or be good at that style. While I’ve gotten better, it’s not always fun for me. Taking the hits and out-healing the damage, or using something else to take the hits for you is also viable options, and there are others I’m sure.

In any case, I say all that to say this: regardless of what happens to the class, I can still have fun playing it how I want to play it, regardless of what others think. I doubt things will ever get so bad that I die repeatedly in OW, and I have other professions that I can play in the places where I have to worry about what others think of my build (ie. fractals).

Off to recreating my chaotic staff mesmer, and seeing what fun things I can do with it.

I leveled my mesmer using Staff/GS also. Since, I have experimented with the other weapons. But I really like the staff. Any clones I make while using the staff cause condition damage, and that really adds up. Also it is much easier to survive using staff.

For a while, I had been using sword-pistol as my second weapon set, but I just think that the mesmer is far too fragile for melee. Yesterday, I went back to using GS as my second weapon. I still mostly use the staff, but I have the GS when I need power, or when all my illusion making skills are on cooldown, and I will switch to GS to get out those illusions.

I tried it out in Verdant Brinks, including a couple of events, and it seemed to work pretty darn well. So for now, I am sticking with Staff/GS.

redcomyn.4651:

I leveled my mesmer using Staff/GS also. Since, I have experimented with the other weapons. But I really like the staff. Any clones I make while using the staff cause condition damage, and that really adds up. Also it is much easier to survive using staff.

For a while, I had been using sword-pistol as my second weapon set, but I just think that the mesmer is far too fragile for melee. Yesterday, I went back to using GS as my second weapon. I still mostly use the staff, but I have the GS when I need power, or when all my illusion making skills are on cooldown, and I will switch to GS to get out those illusions.

I tried it out in Verdant Brinks, including a couple of events, and it seemed to work pretty darn well. So for now, I am sticking with Staff/GS.

I do like scepter after they improved it somewhere along the way. the #3 is alot of confusion all at once, and the torment is great when kiting and staying out of something’s range. Or against enemies that are constantly moving anyway. GS with the imagined burden trait is a great way to stack might for yourself (and the SoI to share it), and has some other utility as well. Plus IBerserker is nice.

But yeah, I completely agree about melee range. I tried melee range and I just feel too squishy. Even with the evades and dodges, I still feel like I’m just getting wrecked, and since you have clones and phantasms to be taking the hits for you, why melee at all?

bearshaman.3421:

I still feel like I’m just getting wrecked, and since you have clones and phantasms to be taking the hits for you, why melee at all?

Exactly!! The illusions are disposable. Let them take the hits.

I’ve no idea if anyone still cares about this post but I’ve got a follow-up and can’t think of a better place. My original post focused a lot on PvE, but I’ve done mainly sPvP for quite some time preceding HoT and continuing through as new updates come – all the while using the Maniac Magician build. As the sPvP meta changed over the years I kept the build the same and just changed my habits to match whatever the players were doing at the time. At the beginning I could stay on the staff 90% of the time and whittle people down with the bleeds and clones, never shattering. Eventually the Scepter was buffed a bit while glass builds got so good that I has to use the block and confusion on scepter, as well as the shatters for extra confusion (and PBAoE blind!) to keep up. But it worked very well and introduced some higher risk-reward play as I learned to sometimes blow all my cooldowns at one time offensively or defensively instead of always playing the slow game.

With the new meta introduced by HoT, Conditions became a good bit more viable in all game modes. New builds on several classes pumped out more Condition Damage than we’d seen previously, and a few conditions were even re-worked. Even with the introduction of HoT the same old build was very effective. However, as that meta developed and players fully explored new options I finally started to feel out of date. This was largely due to a population-wide adoption of condition mitigation. As Condi play took a more prominant role people had to learn how to deal with it: I found they were learning to combat the massive condi bombs, first from Burn Guards, then Reapers, and Scappers. My old-school condi was just not hitting the way it used to. It took 4 years but I have finally retired my Maniac Magician build first inspired by Mr. Prometheus’ Comprehensive Mesmer Guide way back at launch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eZ0NNd7b60). But there is good news for Staff/Scepter+Torch users: the weapon set is stronger than ever (though for many the shield has replaced torch).

Two additions to the Mesmer have changed our class. Obviously the Chronomancer traitline, but also Inspiration is now a strong traitline and provides some wonderful condition mitigation. So the build options available to us Mesmers expanded significantly in the past year. There were whole new takes on Phantasm and classic Shatter builds and even Condition-Shatter. I have seen 16-illusion shatter-condi-bombs for 25 stacks of Confusion, and I’ve seen Chrono-Phantasm builds that juke and block and play the trickster using the shield instead of going invis. It’s been a fun ride.

Once I put the Magician to rest the thing to do seemed to be to learn Chronomancer. Of course I played with the meta-builds first – both Hard damage and Condi damage. Meta-builds are always effective but they’re often simple and linear with too many counters. They get boring quickly so I undertook to make a build of my own like before. The Maniac Magician was efficient and synergistic. There were no wasted stats, minor traits, or major traits. Everything tied in together with multiple uses, taking full advantage of the dual nature many Mesmer skills have and, I think, this is why it lasted so long. So I’ve worked towards replicating that efficiency into another fully synergistic build.

I still love the Staff and Scepter so my new build keeps the Chaos and Illusions trait lines, adding Chronomancer instead of Dueling. Without dueling Precision becomes less important and Movement Speed is taken care of with the Chrono line so I had to pick a new Amulet and Rune. Mirror Images has a nicely reduced cooldown (especially with the Illusions traitline) and Invisibility is less useful nowadays with so many classes having AoE control effects and tracking skills that continue to hit you while invisible. So I swapped my GM trait in Chaos from Prismatic Understanding to Bountiful Disillusionment for the Stability and boons, Decoy for Mirror Images, and Mass Invisibility for Gravity Well. I wanted to be able to keep up constant, un-ebbing pressure as before, but also wanted to be able to blow cooldowns for bigger bursts. Mesmer builds that focus on only burst or only sustain will always have a counter. Mesmer builds that are reactionary are harder to master but handle a much wider array of foes. With Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma frequent shattering is a must so I wanted some Power to go with my Condition Damage.

Here’s what I’ve been using: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnsnBFphdqBmpBEgilXjycFmhaCNAypjoeYP2lF-TJxHABAcRAMqMwsPBgd2fAA

If you enjoy glassier play then changes in Rune and Amulet easily satisfy. Take Rune of the Nightmare and Viper’s Amulet: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnsnBFphdqBmpBEgilXjCNAypjoeYP2l1cFmhaC-TJxHABAcRAm9JAwdZAg2fAA

I definitely plan on playing both ways to explore the ups and downs of each set-up.

Just as with my old build this new one has many many options offensively and defensively. One of my favorite things to do when there’s a big brawl over a control point is to Continuum Split for a double Chaos Storm/Gravity well followed by as full of a shatter sequence as possible. The damage and disruption from this is fantastic. But in smaller fights and duels this build can slow down it’s shatters and Illusion summoning for a constant single target pressure that flows at the same speed as the cooldowns. It’s a very fun build.

Happy Holidays guys, give it a try and enjoy

- Maniac Magee

I’ve been using this in ranked heavily for another 2 weeks and had to tweak the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnknBFphdqBmpBEgiFnj6MAGgEDtx2nEouQT0GF-TJxHAB7s/AAXEgZfCA1XGAA

I changed the Chaos traitline to Inspiration. While I really enjoy the quality of life you get out of the Chaos traits I had chosen (the finessed play you get from the Manipulation traited skills and the Stability on Shatter), the fact is that many many times there are far too many Conditions being thrown at you. I understand that no build on any class will have an even match-up with EVERY other build, but in the current meta-game you need to be able to handle Condis. I always go for a well-rounded custom set-up (something that is never present in the meta-game, but always valuable when used with skill) So, I switched to the Inspiration line and find myself much better able to sustain long enough.

Obviously without Master of Manipulation Mirror is simply not good enough. I have toyed with both Ether Feast and Well of Eternity. They both have their merits, but a large part of the well’s benefits are only reaped if your team stays in the well. Ether Feast remains a solid and reliable choice.

Maniac Magee.2643:

I’ve been using this in ranked heavily for another 2 weeks and had to tweak the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnknBFphdqBmpBEgilXj6sICijDNAypjoeYP2lF-TJxHABz+EAMqMwO7PAwFBAA

I changed the Chaos traitline to Inspiration. While I really enjoy the quality of life you get out of the Chaos traits I had chosen (the finessed play you get from the Manipulation traited skills and the Stability on Shatter), the fact is that many many times there are far too many Conditions being thrown at you. I understand that no build on any class will have an even match-up with EVERY other build, but in the current meta-game you need to be able to handle Condis. I always go for a well-rounded custom set-up (something that is never present in the meta-game, but always valuable when used with skill) So, I switched to the Inspiration line and find myself much better able to sustain long enough.

Obviously without Master of Manipulation Mirror is simply not good enough. I have toyed with both Ether Feast and Well of Eternity. They both have their merits, but a large part of the well’s benefits are only reaped if your team stays in the well. Ether Feast remains a solid and reliable choice.

So in the end you’re just playing meta condi chrono but with the on point sustain weapon set swapped out for some more direct damage condi.

Yup, mesmers in a great spot! :D

Ross Biddle.2367:

Maniac Magee.2643:

I’ve been using this in ranked heavily for another 2 weeks and had to tweak the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnknBFphdqBmpBEgilXj6sICijDNAypjoeYP2lF-TJxHABz+EAMqMwO7PAwFBAA

I changed the Chaos traitline to Inspiration. While I really enjoy the quality of life you get out of the Chaos traits I had chosen (the finessed play you get from the Manipulation traited skills and the Stability on Shatter), the fact is that many many times there are far too many Conditions being thrown at you. I understand that no build on any class will have an even match-up with EVERY other build, but in the current meta-game you need to be able to handle Condis. I always go for a well-rounded custom set-up (something that is never present in the meta-game, but always valuable when used with skill) So, I switched to the Inspiration line and find myself much better able to sustain long enough.

Obviously without Master of Manipulation Mirror is simply not good enough. I have toyed with both Ether Feast and Well of Eternity. They both have their merits, but a large part of the well’s benefits are only reaped if your team stays in the well. Ether Feast remains a solid and reliable choice.

So in the end you’re just playing meta condi chrono but with the on point sustain weapon set swapped out for some more direct damage condi.

Yup, mesmers in a great spot!

No, he’s playing with himself and given the length of the post I’d say he’s quite enjoying it.

Lol, playing with myself a bit for sure. Obviously Apharma this post is a prolonged pet project of mine. But it’s ok. At least this kinda masturbation is satisfying. Commenting on people’s post with needless jabs is the kind of thing teenage kids do…it’s so old hat and boring.

Ross Biddle, my amulet is now actually the same but it wasn’t before (i’ve switched to the Sage amulet). But my rune, elite, main-hand, Heal, two utility skills, two traits, and all 4 sigils are different from the meta. That’s quite a list of differences… It makes for more nuanced and variable attack patterns.

It Means my rotations both for stacking condis and managing cooldowns is very different than the meta.

The meta uses portal; it’s supposed to be used to maximize the match-up you’re given but lots of mesmers use it to bail and switch points when they can’t handle themselves. My build commits for the duration. It’s different in the way it attacks, defends, and in it’s role in the team.

For you to say that it just meta with a different weapon tells me you haven’t thought much about this. Or maybe you don’t play mesmer? I remember your name but will have to go back and read what you’ve posted on here.

Ross Biddle. Wow. ok so you do play mesmer? But you’re unfamiliar on such a level that you can’t see the extent of the difference between meta Chronophantasma and my set-up. Or maybe you just don’t know how specific of a role the Chronophantasma actually takes when used properly (watch some Helseth videos. He’s arrogant and talks really loud but it shows portal use and Chronophantasma use well and at a high level).

My set-up lacks the things that give the Chronophantasma it’s specialized pvp role, and adds things that make it take a very different role.

Well to be fair, you’re just playing the Chronophantasma build with like Scepter/Torch. If this build were as different as you say it is, you would use Chaos and other means of condi cleanse. But you mentioned that condis are thrown everywhere so you’re forced to run Inspiration. Your set up is literally Chronophantasma with Mirror Images and Mantra of Resolve (why a Mantra idk but ok.) If you really wanted to bash Ross, (however juvenile he can be), you’d prove that this build is different from the meta build. Scepter is good direct dmg but ultimately underwhelming when you start to reach higher tiers. Torch is ok I guess but this guarantees you’ll lose a point against anyone who can outlive your condis. Point being, this is the meta build tweaked to your preference which if it works for you, ok, but the skills you’ve chosen are weird especially in this DH meta. (mirror images is useless in the Aoe craze.)

Only thing that bother me is why U take so many condie cleanses? With just inspiration U have enough.

Pico I take that many because there’s so many condi’s getting thrown around that it really pays off. Since I’m NOT meta I need to sustain longer rather than just burst and portal. It catches people off guard (they expect the meta) and I end up sustaining and winning.

Ty for actually asking a question. So far people just wanna be negative, without reading or understanding.

Myren, you haven’t even really read. Here’s the ways I think you don’t understand:

1) I’m not using Torch anymore
2) I listed the differences between this and Chronophantasma meta. I even gave a brief strategic assesment of WHY those differences mattered.
3) Um…#2 was so ignored by you and detailed enough that I think it bears repetition.

Also, I absolutely wreck DHs (at least the meta ones) so I don’t know why you mentioned them.

And Mirror Images is a GREAT skill. The AoE doesn’t matter, because its use is mainly to get instant use (often paired with Phase Retreat) out of F4 or F5.

The utilities I have that Chronophantasma doesn’t are SO key. Not having the Signet to recharge my Fs is a big big difference by itself.

I’m gonna go back to points 2 and 3 here because you really don’t understand. Without portal I HAVE to stay in the fight. This ALONE puts me in a different role than Chronophantasma. I have further widened the gap between my role and the meta’s role by adding more sustain on my Utility bar and more focused dmg on my main hand. I definitely can bust out every skill I got for a big burst (and occasionally I do when it’s appropriate) but most of the time I cycle through my skills in a slower, more reactive manner than the meta build. My set-up does not work well if you have a “skill rotation”.

So, this’s different in: Role, Attack Pattern, Defense, Load-out, and General Mindset. What more can I say? That’s different in every meaningful way. Just because they’re both condi mesmer doesn’t make them the same. Just because it shares some traits and an amulet (which almost should be chosen for ANY mesmer condi set-up) Doesn’t make it execute at all the same.