Guild Wars 2

Y’know, I can’t help but find this kind of funny. I got frustrated by how weak my Elementalist feels compared to my Necro and Ranger, but I love playing light armor classes so I finally talked myself into rolling a Mesmer just a few days ago. I only do PvE, and was finding her kinda meh for DE’s and against multiple mobs but really good for 1vs1 — I actually solo’d a couple of skill challenges with her!

. . . so, of course, Mesmers got nerfs. I’m sorry, my fellow Mesmers! I must be cursed to play squishy mediocre casters. If they start bringing out the nerfs for Necros, I think I shall cry (not literally, lol).

I dunno I feel like literally crying.

Turtles All The Way Down.5608:

Mystik.9561

Oh did you not notice how drenched in sarcasm my statement was??

I did not, mainly because it’s the kind of thing I would expect someone out there to actually say. On that regard in this case I was mistaken.

It’s understandable. This whole nerf bat episode was a low hanging fruit thing for ANET I think. Instead of taking the time to actually work on the classes varying issues, they decided to pacify the pvp community. I guess because were not a high pop class they feel the changes benefit the greater good at the expense of a smaller population. I would love… hell i would pay money to have someone from ANET get into this discussion and actually explain this move, but we know how it is, they don’t have the backbone to do so. Well ANET the ball is in your court, stand in front of this community and defend your changes, explain to us, the customer, why this move was undertaken, how does it improve the class and the gameplay??? This demand reminds me of a quote from a great movie…. “you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one happens first”…. in this case, sadly the latter will be our reality.

It’s funny cause I was just thinking about how Chaos Storm is so slow to recharge I either forget about it or barely use it.

It’s hardly a skill worth relying on since its such a slow recharge. Buuut I guess it was OP some how?!

I sincerely hope that the (holy ____ trinity) Vengeful Image/Phantasmal Fury/Phantasmal Healing is fixed along with the coming new retaliation mechanism change.
It should ease out some of the recent changes to phantasms.

For the separate skill set, Anet stated that they do not want to split them because they don’t like the idea of players having to remember 2 different skill set every time they swap scenarios and have to learn and remembers how to play both efficiently.

For pvp trolls,
if this is a pvp games, then why add pve in the 1st place, why add gem store when most pvper are not gonna even open it once. Then why should we pveer support you troll community. Get your brain check, PLS!

I noticed this thread blow up minutes after the patch went up. Beyond just reading the patch notes, did anyone actually PvE with it yet? I did. Did I notice the increased recharge? Yes. Did it seem to make a noticeable impact? No. (In terms of PvE only, which is what most people seem to be upset with from what I see). Not to me at least. I went about playing my phantasm build like any other night, and for the most part felt fine (IMO). I just find it funny how SO MANY people came here to cry before even trying it out. Give it a shot, play for a while, then come back with some constructive thoughts.

Yay, pvp nerfs kittening mesmer pve damage even more, AND they increase the cooldown on chaos storm, one of their few aoes/good utility skills. If they’re going to be increasing phantasm cooldowns, can’t they at least make them last through more than 2 hits in a dungeon?
Good thing I’m leveling a guardian I guess.

No, as a mesmer we are way too overpowered in pve! With the high amount of damage/ support that we do, the heaps of aoe spells we can choose from to spam, the incredible mighty illusions which kill everything in seconds [and so on..], we MUST be kept down!
Because we are not supposed to have fun, instead we have to struggle and grind out our way to achieve something.. hmm.. yeah.. sounds logical and well thought out for me.

Maybe some more nerfs and restrictions would be fine????

sarcasm switched off

PLEASE devs have a look at the pve mesmers.. have you tried to level one from 1 – 80? Anyone is still playing a mesmer and has a lot of fun?

The noobs won guys, they complained until they got what they wanted.

Why T_T…

I would gladly double the cooldown if they would last through an entire fight and not just a single mob.

MrInfinit.1864:

I noticed this thread blow up minutes after the patch went up. Beyond just reading the patch notes, did anyone actually PvE with it yet? I did. Did I notice the increased recharge? Yes. Did it seem to make a noticeable impact? No. (In terms of PvE only, which is what most people seem to be upset with from what I see). Not to me at least. I went about playing my phantasm build like any other night, and for the most part felt fine (IMO). I just find it funny how SO MANY people came here to cry before even trying it out. Give it a shot, play for a while, then come back with some constructive thoughts.

Talk about timing, I hit 80 today, early afternoon. I played my way through ORR making some good progress and gathering of loot from events. I can say it was a challenge beforehand in these AOE feast events, but I did ok pre-patch. After the patch hit, I wanted to try it out, well the results were as I expected them to be. I cannot compete with many other classes AOE’s now, so forget loot farming, I am relegated to the karma farming for being PART of the event…. Now when it comes to dungeons… to be tested, but I have no hope for it as my Chaos Storm provided a lot of support, now that support is still there only much more limited and while this class didn’t have a lot of special features from the others classes, the Aegis proc from storm was such a nice benefit, more so than the guardians as it occurred much more frequently, but i guess we were muscling in on that territory so they had to strike us down…. Sadly I guess this is the hint to re-roll… and i just got to 80….

I play a few professions in spvp, and overall this patch is a joke. Nerfs across the board for the majority of professions (even elementalists, lol). I flat out do not understand the logic of it when there are still so many traits and the like that simply DO NOT WORK. Why does increasing the cooldown on phantasms by a few seconds and rearranging guardian greatsword abilities take priority over actually fixing things? I can tell you now, they say they are ‘serious’ about esports, this game is nowhere even close to it, sometimes it still feels like a game in beta.

You guys don´t have damage meters to run your PvE and you dungeons, but Arenanet does. You can be sure they have found out that when a Mesmer has three phantasms out in dungeons he is doing too much damage compared to the other classes.

So it will take him longer to get all three out on a boss, and the phantasms may even die. I ran a couple of dungeons myself, and I didn´t find that my ranged phantasm the warlock died all the time. Same with duelist I´m sure (can´t stand the noise from that gun btw, never ever use him for that alone). Heck even the zerker often got himself out of harms way and could attack again.

The warden ate it, but not before he had unleashed his attack as an AoE, which looked pretty fine to me.

I was also very busy in those dungeons btw, maximising my dps. Not standing around looking at phantasms.

@ Felix: Its by encounter, if you do a lot of DEs you should understand that phantasm don’t last in most fights and deal too much on buggy/stupid AI fights like Hound in CM letting me rain 3 duelist on him.

I also realise that most of the time my illusion survive better than my phantasm, at least now i think i should go shatter build in DE.

I guess I’m going to have to rework my build. I was building entirely around iWarlock and conditions, and after the build went live I died more times than I can count because my one squishy warlock would die before I could get another out. Can anyone link me to a good shatter build?

Yeah sure Felix, our phantasms are doing “too much damage” after we manage to get all three of them out, meanwhile thieves just continue spamming pistol whip/heartseeker since even after the nerf to PW damage they’ve still got quickness and they’ve still got a ton of extra damage to injured mobs.

And let’s be honest nothing actually lasts long enough to get all three phantasms out because classes with frontloaded damage kill everything before the CD rolls around again.

Even if the DPS is fine why are they not fixing the bugs that influence the rate at which phantasms activate before changing the cooldowns on the skills?

@Sabo
20 Domination I, X
20 Dueling IV, X
30 Illusions I, V, XI

Sword/Pistol + Greatsword
Signet of Inspiration/Mirrored Images/X

Fairly standard shatter build, tweak as desired.

Furienify.5738:

@Sabo
20 Domination I, X
20 Dueling IV, X
30 Illusions I, V, XI

Sword/Pistol + Greatsword
Signet of Inspiration/Mirrored Images/X

Fairly standard shatter build, tweak as desired.

Thank you kindly. I haven’t done a shatter build before and I wasn’t sure how to start one. That helps a lot.

Sabo.1485:

I guess I’m going to have to rework my build. I was building entirely around iWarlock and conditions, and after the build went live I died more times than I can count because my one squishy warlock would die before I could get another out.

Is it just me, or is warlock still at 18 sec recharge?

Gotta laugh at all the people complaining, myself played Mesmer since first beta and chose this class. Mesmers needed this nerf and obviously there are alot of players not knowing how OP those phanstasm are and they still are. Just a longer CD.

I’m glad this change came so the FOTM storm can move to another class. Going from barely any mesmer played till seeing 2 mesmer in every single TPvP.

And Greatsword didn’t get nerfed at all. I hope they nerf it equal to Staff.

Darki.9204:

Gotta laugh at all the people complaining, myself played Mesmer since first beta and chose this class. Mesmers needed this nerf and obviously there are alot of players not knowing how OP those phanstasm are and they still are. Just a longer CD.

I’m glad this change came so the FOTM storm can move to another class. Going from barely any mesmer played till seeing 2 mesmer in every single TPvP.

And Greatsword didn’t get nerfed at all. I hope they nerf it equal to Staff.

so says the guy who doesn’t really have a mesmer.

Or else you’d know what a nerf this really was.

Go back to your thief.

Darki.9204:

Gotta laugh at all the people complaining, myself played Mesmer since first beta and chose this class. Mesmers needed this nerf and obviously there are alot of players not knowing how OP those phanstasm are and they still are. Just a longer CD.

I’m glad this change came so the FOTM storm can move to another class. Going from barely any mesmer played till seeing 2 mesmer in every single TPvP.

And Greatsword didn’t get nerfed at all. I hope they nerf it equal to Staff.

One of the masses that join mesmer in the recent wagon that came in!

Chaos Storm was too imba i guess…. but 5 seconds extra cooldown is a bit steep, rather have them remove the boons on it and buff the conditions a little so we can keep our 30s.
The Phantasm nerf is rediculous, i could agree with the warden nerf a few weeks ago, but these Phantasm are not that great. Thank god i roll cond/wrack build.

Qadesh.2590:

Chaos Storm was too imba i guess…. but 5 seconds extra cooldown is a bit steep, rather have them remove the boons on it and buff the conditions a little so we can keep our 30s.
The Phantasm nerf is rediculous, i could agree with the warden nerf a few weeks ago, but these Phantasm are not that great. Thank god i roll cond/wrack build.

I’ve been running many DE’s and a dungeon so far tonight, and the changes haven’t felt steep or ridiculous to me at all. Noticeable for sure, but they haven’t sent me logging off in frustration or made me feel that my play style has changed too much at all with my phantasm build.

I’m not saying the changes were warranted, it sucks having pve changes being forced due to pvp. I’m just saying, to me, it doesn’t “feel” so bad that it deserves such an outcry over. Of course mileage may vary!

well, i’m just glad that portal remains untouched.

inb4 jinx

Since some people don’t understand some changes:

Chaos storm synergies with phase retreat for chaos armor, which you then can sit in the storm and gain a mess of boons regardless if the opponent chooses to attack you or not.

Chaos storm was far too strong in area control. The conditions it puts out in a short period of time, combined with low recast made trying to hold the smaller points against a mesmer, or forcing them off the point was very difficult. Your best option was to get off the point, every time it was dropped, in small points.

Phantasms in general: Phantasms were too fire-and-forget. No thought was involved in using them, just hit them off cool down for massive damage that was difficult for players to get rid of. No real punishment for killing phantasms, as you could easily make a new one right after one went down. (Note on warden, that was bug fix)

To players in general, I don’t think that phantasms were ever meant to be something you try to keep on the field for long periods of time as you can’t heal and can make a new one. Stop clinging to them as pets, realize that these are damage abilities that get the added bonus of racking up more free damage as time passes. Yes traits exist to help phantasms and you can build fully around them, but understand that’s the risk you take by going all into phantasms for your damage and not say, shatters or damage that comes directly from you. Just cause you can take all phantasm traits, doesn’t mean you should. To those who complain about things blowing up your phantasms before they do damage, do the same thing all other professions have to do: time abilities for effectiveness. There is a right time to drop one, and a wrong one.

Overall, staff, phantasms brought in line. You still have all your other weapons and plethora of builds you can make. Try experimenting and innovating a little before screaming your profession is dead. Mesmer is still quite viable.

have hard to undertsand how anyone can be suppriced that the phantasm build been nerfed. It been allowing Mesmers to keep 15 points in toughtness and 25 in vitality + do dmg of most professions glascannon builds. It had a extremly low skill cap, worked (working its not gone for good cause of this. Sky IS NOT FALLING) like a hellfire missile, release and forget, collect loot.

I kinda impressed with arena net, they reached the problem at same time as they accualy DID NOT nerf our owerall dmg for other builds. They could as easy just added 10% less dmg to al phantasms and forgoet about us again. Only change i dont realy understand is chaos field but i guess it has a reason, as chaos armour got lesser cd the defensive side of our profession dint take a to bad hit by this anway.

The shatter builds dont get affected at al realy but they demand higher skill to use ofc. Just ahve a look at Winterfell, mine or Flimsy,s shatter gameplay and then have a loo thought before call our class underpowered now.

Numot.3965:

Stop clinging to them as pets, realize that these are damage abilities that get the added bonus of racking up more free damage as time passes.

“free damage”…lol.

^guy above doesn’t realise mesmer direct damage is incredibly low.

Okay then Anet, give mesmers direct damage – I’d be happy to never use phantasms again (hate them anyway).

Numot you nailed it, why keep your phantasm as a pet? And for good sake try experement some, Ic anpersonaly recomend the 20-20-20-0-10 shatter phantasm hybrid who get a iswordman up, full burst of al abilitys and end with a superb 20-20 buffed 3 clone mindwrack, owwer to staff and end him. or just go to the burst shatter specces.

This is totaly unchanged by this patch.

Winterfell.8915 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WA3M2IbJI
Osicat.4139 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7KkhjAWe_s
(burst Damage)
Osicat.4139 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btL7-ynAH9A

Sometime I think ppl just lazy and start cry when thye have to work for the dmg and dont get it for free Just tlike the guy above… lol our direct dmg low? 17k bursts is low? what d you see as high?

I can only assume they didn’t want so many people playing Mesmer.
Bye bye my lvl 80 Mesmer, the recharge increases alone make it not worthwhile.
btw I played (past tense) condition spec with ‘some’ shatter.

I’m not a guy (lollie would be a guy’s name in what universe?), and shatter isn’t direct damage, and your vids show pvp, we’re talking pve in this forum. Shatter in pvp you’re making their damage hit them, so that isn’t mesmer damage. It’s only hitting that high because it’s their damage :P

I can’t believe I made my PvE main a Mesmer. What a waste of time! Warriors can smash 1 while were left with longer cooldowns for phantasms AND one of our only AoE’s. I thought they needed a buff. Screw you people that think we’re OP because they own you in PvP; try leveling one in PvE as a solo character. Guess I will be leveling an Engi now. Or just giving this game a break considering there’s no knowing what will waste my time next. Great patch ArenaNet. I’ve always been so supportive of this game, but every thing keeps getting nerfed to my disadvantage. Keeping phantams alive in dungeons is hard enough…now I can’t even rely on quick recharge times. Fanatastic!

Numot, you missed one important bug related to Ethereal field combo with leap that gives Chaos Armor. It does NOT work the same as staff #4 Chaos Armor as it’s procing the original Chaos Armor(Beta). Just like Illusionary Warlock, it’s also using the original version(Beta) of Winds of Chaos that travels along the contours of the ground.

There are still many bugs yet to be fixed and they should take priority before balance changes are needed. I would feel okay if they fixed the chaos armor bug from combo together with this nerf, otherwise it’d be like double nerfed without addressing some of the bugs first that hinders a lot of the ways the Mesmer should be able to do.

Yeah…, I can’t really see any of the logic behind this.
Nerfing Phantasm timers like this only hits PvE and barely affects PvP.

It’s like ANet is just wildly swinging a hammer around in a room trying to smash the one thing that will bring Mesmers more in line for sPvP. Let me give you a hint before you end up destroying the entire room in the process.

Nerf the recast on Blink and Decoy. Murder Moa Morph. Touch nothing else.

Right Mesmers needed this… Not warriors or spam shadow step invisible thieves. Oh right that is their mechanic. hide and do damage. in and out. Stun you in between. Kind of thought Mesmers were supposed to use phantasms and clones. Stopped using clones altogether with the nerf to them. Ya I get it pvp. Again. Just like in GW1. Lesson not learned I guess. What so many people were complaining about in GW1- split pvp and pve- which they finally did, I guess will not be brought into GW2. FYI Mesmer is hardly OP in pve. Like, AT ALL.

@Osicat

Pretty cool to see this idea that phantasm build was op and people shouldn’t complain because they can play shatter build. People are complaining about the pve implications of this nerf, so I guess its a good idea to post pvp vids in response. It doesn’t require that much more skill, anyone who’s played both will tell you that. Furthermore i seriously don’t understand how you can’t see what’s going to happen next….. they nerfed phantasm build because of its pvp effectiveness, well shatter build was and is stronger in pvp its just that few people played it. Now everyone is going to play and guess what next monday’s patch notes are going to be?

I never complained about hundred blade warriors, or heart seeker spamming thieves, etc. All of which were at one point considered overpowered. Every class can be OP if played correctly in PvP; however, in PvE it’s a different story. Mesmer’s were awful in PvE in guild wars 1 unless you were in a large group and ran Panic. The amount of control Mesmers have now is even less, their damage is mediocre, they are squishy. I wasted a month getting map completion to 100% on a a character I won’t use until there’s a buff. Warriors will still get all the loot from tagging mobs, and we still have to wait for our phantasms to tag a single mob and now the recharge times are even longer. Play a PvE Mesmer. I dare you. This class isn’t fun to play anymore.

Guys, this whining is ridiculous. I played a mesmer to 80, ran mostly dungeons and can tell you, that, if played correctly, our damage output is very good. Of course you need time for set up. I almost play with staff and scepter/pistol, traited for duelists. I had a 8 or 9 second CD on the duelist, I also traited in glamour so i can produce a lot of confusion. Especially in boss fights, I had constantly 3 duelists out, I even overproduced them, destroying the ‘old’ ones, be cause they almost never die (ranged). They pull off almost crits, apply easily 25 stacks of bleeding and with my glamours up (Feedback, Null Field) they apply also 20-25 stacks of confuion. Now I can even switch to my staff and place a nice Chaos Storm for even more damage. Chaos Storm hurts a bit of course and I don’t get, why the even prolonged the CD on it, but Anet will hopefully know why.

This is silly you have thiefs 2 shoting people hunters 4 shoting people and you nurf the class that has to go through there rotation at least 2x to kill somone. Gj really Gj

I just hope they realize the errors and fix things. I just want Chaos Storm back to its original CD

Why is it surprising when you roll an easymode faceroll FOTM class that gets nerfed? It was and is stupidly OP. the good players will adapt. You guys had it coming and it should come as no surprise. Be happy it wasn’t more as it could and should have been…i.e. MOA.

Hehe @ lolle, sorry for not catch u gender but in a universe where ppl call em self “Turtles All The Way Down” and “Roven leafsong” i cant realy say the name say alot about the gender of the person behid the screen.

About our direct dmg being low, cant realy say shatters is not direct dmg, its a dmg where you need sertan items yes but sois a dot or a area on the ground dmg spell aswell. And if your dmg from our caracter would be in line with thieves ect they need to take al our dmg away form our phantasm etc and only have them to distract tbh.

Pve forum? sens when did the “Mesmer official forum” become a pve forum? Its a class forum imao.

The silentflute, Thieves got nerfed aswell. Rangers are not realy a porblem for us in pvp and we rolling faces as it is in pvp in any 1 vs 1 situation exept vs another mesmer or a guardian

I btw dont think our dmg in instances is low, we have good survivability and lvling have never been a pain.

Again this whining is not cause they broke the class. Its cause they made it a little more skill demanding to get maximum output. But ofc that is not what the big masses want is it.

First of all. Fu sPvP community of Gw2. You are the most whiney PvP community I ever saw and I have been with the lol and data one. Of course stuff is gone hit you hard if you go full glass cannon and of course phantasms gone kill you sooner or later and if you try to only unload you DMG on the main target that can blink and go invis. Surely get it together. What’s next? Necro Op his minions hit me and he has a second HP bar?

Now to the main topic
As a WvW and PvE player this lacked me very sad. You pretty much had to choose when to bring out the warlock before because of the crappy CD and now you will pretty much never have him up. Oh a boss with a lot of condtions let’s pull out the warlock. 2k hit 2,9k crit annnd it is dead. Meanwhile all other classes do more DMG then the warlock pre hit and can keep it up.
Calling it now next our Mind Wrack CD will get needed because burst builds burst with him.

The thing that is really getting to me?

The realization that we are going to have to wait till next Monday to see what changes they bring.

Why does that get to me?

Because every Monday previous has introduced for Mesmers Nerfs, New Bugs, and the only fixed bugs were those that benefited the Mesmer with the exception of just ONE that fixes something they broke previously.

ALL WITHOUT DEVS EVEN GIVING A HINT ON WHATS GOING ON WITH THE CLASS! Even after the bloody fact.

…

Actually, even since the BWE there HASN’T been a single update that really benefited the Mesmer … I REALLY am starting to hate Bloody Nerfing Mondays.

Oh boy, I can’t wait to do an event where mobs die so fast my phantasms don’t even get their skills off in time and still go into cool down. Tabbing constantly and auto attacking everything sounds like fun fun times…..

Flavor of the Month? OP?

Ok lets assume that sure, this class was FOTM and OP.

And lets look at facts. Shatter build is OP. What got nerfed, has 0 relation to shatter builds.

What point could you possible make by that.

What you said was stupid and you should feel stupid.

There is nothing wrong with any of these changes. They’re minor recast nerfs, talk about overreaction.

This patch ticked me off… I run a phantasm build and RARELY shatter, so most of my damage comes from phantasms – phantasms that get freaking one shot in every single dungeon – and now it’s going to be even HARDER to pull off my damage? Are you freaking kidding me? Can someone PLEASE explain the reasoning behind this?

This is guesstimation, but the changes might be to differentiate a “perma” Phantasm build more from a shatter-ready Phantasm-heavy setup.

Explanations for the masses:

- nerf on phantasm recharge : to avoid the free “hide and spam phantasm” tactic.
Good nerf ? Now you gotta think when summoning ur phantasms… Or not … yet to be tested. Anyway it doesnt seem to hurt/change that much.

- chaos storm : like guardian previous nerf. In defensive mode i was hardly killable due to stacking chaos storm with some other skills. Again not a huge nerf (5s), its just that its not up all the time.
Id rather seee them address the general issue with defensive buffs being somewhat too efficient (or too long duration) rather than nerfing cd on our only aoe skill but thats how it is.

Nerfs are bound to happen, we are somewhat the fotm class, everyone qq about us … So better get used to changes and adapt …

Mesmers are fun thats only reason why i play one.