Guild Wars 2

We got a buff at last, we got a buff at last!! Scepter skill 2 and 3 cd reduced!! Mantras buffed!!!

Beer time!

Any news on the supposed 20% nerf to Phantasm damage?
whats the cool down on iCounter going to be? with just 30% duration increase mine lasts 10.5seconds. Thats just from 20% Trait and 10% Rune set, no food or anything else.

Great to hear!
Mind typing out the key bullet points? I wasn’t able to catch the Mesmer section but I’d loooove to know the changes!

They didn’t talk about nerfs today, so let’s just wait how the whole thing turns out tomorrow.

Don’t you have to go 20 points into Invigoration to get the traited scepter cooldowns though? I may be wrong here.

they just did a short preview with all the classes, full notes tmrw. If they nerf mesmer phantasm damage I will play as Necro and Engi only from now on which is sad

Xavi.6591:

Don’t you have to go 20 points into Invigoration to get the traited scepter cooldowns though? I may be wrong here.

I am guessing the change will be a reduction of the cool down and the trait will decrease it even further.

This is all they spoke about for mesmer, but reinforced that this was only a preview and alluded to many more things we’ll see tomorrow.

• Illusionary Counter: reduced to base CD of 9s. Malicious Sorcery trait will reduce it further.
• Confusing Images: reduced to base CD of 12s. Malicious Sorcery trait will reduce it further.
• Mantra of Resolve > Power Cleanse: AoE condition cleanse with 240 radius.
• Mantra of Concentration > Power Break: AoE stability with 240 radius. They also confirmed the stun break ability will not be AoE.
• Tab target change does not affect mesmer illusions.

Aside from mesmer specific changes, I will say there are some amazing quality of life changes in this patch. For example, condition damage floaters and ground targeting have been greatly enhanced. All the details are on the stream, which should be available shortly here: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

EDIT: Full list of livestream notes here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1og4v2/skill_change_developer_livestream_notes/

The changes were:
Mantra of stability -> effect is a character centered AoE
The cleansing Mantra thing -> same as the above
Scepter 2/3 skills got their base cooldowns reduced. I dont exactly remember how much, but i think it was both under 10 seconds. (untraited)

They didnt talk about any nerfs, but general changes affecting us (and i think the only change really affecting me) is that stunbreakers “break” you out mid animation. Which is rather nice.

All in all, rather lacking, if you ask me.

edit, ah, too slow and the guy above did it much better than me sadface

Better than nothing since we been eating nerfs

Stability and Cleansing changes are great! Love those and plan on trying them out and adding them to my WvW rotation. On-demand AoE stability will be a huge help.

Scepter is still pretty lackluster, but that’s a hefty CD reduction on both its skills. Three things hold me back from loving scepter: the slow/unresponsive autoattack, the disappointing performance of Confusion in PvE, and condition caps. Those don’t really hold back WvW/sPvP however, and methinks Scepter just got a week bit more solid as an option in those areas.

Kelthien.8593:

Stability and Cleansing changes are great! Love those and plan on trying them out and adding them to my WvW rotation. On-demand AoE stability will be a huge help.

Scepter is still pretty lackluster, but that’s a hefty CD reduction on both its skills. Three things hold me back from loving scepter: the slow/unresponsive autoattack, the disappointing performance of Confusion in PvE, and condition caps. Those don’t really hold back WvW/sPvP however, and methinks Scepter just got a week bit more solid as an option in those areas.

Oh, they also mentioned they realize scepter is lackluster and wanted to buff it, hence these changes. They also said they will monitor these changes and fully intend to continue looking for ways to buff the weapon, so that’s good news.

Scepter is great, this just makes it more awesome.

skcamow.3527:

Oh, they also mentioned they realize scepter is lackluster and wanted to buff it, hence these changes. They also said they will monitor these changes and fully intend to continue looking for ways to buff the weapon, so that’s good news.

Great news! It’s not as bad as it was, for sure. As far as weapons go in the whole game, it’s probably a solid B. Our others are just so strong. When looking for a one-hander, it’s hard to beat sword. If you’re going for pure conditions, staff can be a monster. Ranged? I still prefer GS as my go-to.

Yeah the only thing that lets the Scepter down is the Auto attack, the fatc clones are spawned on the target is great. The projectile is slow, the cast times are to long and think its missing a couple of conditions just to buff it up a bit

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yeah the only thing that lets the Scepter down is the Auto attack, the fatc clones are spawned on the target is great. The projectile is slow, the cast times are to long and think its missing a couple of conditions just to buff it up a bit

I agree but in some situations i have to stop my autoattack because i have 3 phantasms up :s

Ninja edit: misread something – nothing to see here, carry on rejoicing!

DeathReign.7821:

skcamow.3527:

• Tab target change does not affect mesmer illusions.

Am I the only one who noticed/cares about this?

This is horrible! It’s not like it was difficult for players with even a small amount of skill to identify the real Mesmer, now even dimwitted button mashers won’t have any troubles tabbing to the real Mesmer.

Mindkitten was an unlisted skill mesmers had, but that’s clearly being taken away. This patch doesn’t make me want to rejoice at all. ):

Could have wrote it clearer – the new tab target change will not skip mesmer illusions but on other classes it will skip NPC’s and go straight to the next real player. We’re good here.

IMO mantra buffs are nice, but in practice they only really matter for small 3-5 man groups. So the usage of these new improvements are limited. Solo or duo manipulations/clones will still be far superior – there are still must-have skills, multiple in fact. For larger organized groups, glamour is the only real way to play.

I guess having a MoH, MoP, MoR, MoC build to see if its a good commander/support setup is the only interesting thing I can think of. Because it sure as hell wont be good at anything other than mindlessly repeat buttons and watch a 2.5s channel every 2s.

skcamow.3527:

DeathReign.7821:

skcamow.3527:

• Tab target change does not affect mesmer illusions.

Am I the only one who noticed/cares about this?

This is horrible! It’s not like it was difficult for players with even a small amount of skill to identify the real Mesmer, now even dimwitted button mashers won’t have any troubles tabbing to the real Mesmer.

Mindkitten was an unlisted skill mesmers had, but that’s clearly being taken away. This patch doesn’t make me want to rejoice at all. ):

Could have wrote it clearer – the new tab target change will not skip mesmer illusions but on other classes it will skip NPC’s and go straight to the next real player. We’re good here.

Dang I was too slow in editing.

Yeah, I went straight to the patch notes you provided after posting that only to be surprised with the opposite of what I thought was going to happen.

I’m relieved! Rejoice time.

Dawdler.8521:

IMO mantra buffs are nice, but in practice they only really matter for small 3-5 man groups. So the usage of these new improvements are limited. Solo or duo manipulations/clones will still be far superior – there are still must-have skills, multiple in fact. For larger organized groups, glamour is the only real way to play.

I guess having a MoH, MoP, MoR, MoC build to see if its a good commander/support setup is the only interesting thing I can think of. Because it sure as hell wont be good at anything other than mindlessly repeat buttons and watch a 2.5s channel every 2s.

These changes probably won’t be as good for a support mesmer in WvW as in PvP, where they will be very effective. I think they can be decent in WvW though. In larger groups, getting more than one mesmer rolling with them would be interesting to play with. You’re right about having to constantly charge them – very micro oriented and you’d have to get really effective at using your other instant cast skills/utilities during those times.

Getting excited about puny buffs ? Better than nothing.

Mantras : Will people use it more often ? I don’t think so.
Scepter ? Auto attack probably unchanged.

I’m going to wait to say my final opinion after tomorrow patch notes, but getting excited over mantra and scepter…? Nah.

Krispera.5087:

Getting excited about puny buffs ? Better than nothing.

Mantras : Will people use it more often ? I don’t think so.
Scepter ? Auto attack probably unchanged.

I’m going to wait to say my final opinion after tomorrow patch notes, but getting excited over mantra and scepter…? Nah.

This. The changes might be decent. Nothing game changing or anything. Scepter will still have its Auto attack as its biggest weakness. Personally dont see the Mantras suddenly become key abilities or anything, might improve them for those that use them already but not enough of a buff to make them worthwhile for those of us that dont use them

Honestly, the block didn’t need the buff (though I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth), and the problem with confusing images isn’t the cooldown, it’s with confusion, and so this buff didn’t really help at all.

Additionally, the major issue with the scepter —the incredibly clunky autoattack-- still is unresolved.

Mantras being buffed is good I suppose…but I doubt how much use they’ll really get. They still are going to be difficult to use effectively together in PvP simply because you can’t afford to be standing around casting mantras the whole time, especially in this interrupt heavy meta.

Additionally, I worry that the radius they decide to put these mantras on might be too small, sorta causing a venomshare issue where the only way to use them effectively is to be severely violating the privacy of your teammates.

I really don’t think the mantra change will help much. 240 radius is tiny, while it certainly help’s Null Field is still better and taking a mantra for stability is a loss of another utility skill already. In PVE for dungeons, taking a guardian is still a good idea. In WVW, the radius is too small for just 2s of stability and standing that close for removing 2 condi’s is impractical (especially with the aoe of necro’s and condi engines)

Glad about the scepter changes, one annoyance I had with the weapon was how you had a bad auto attack and two situational skills with long cool downs – this helps the second quite a bit. Until the auto attack is fixed up (reduce cast time of third part of chain, increase projectile speed, add an additional effect to the third hit) it will remain behind our other weapons. It isn’t cool having an auto attack overwrite more useful clones.

Regardless, overall this looks promising. Anet haven’t really mentioned what nerfs are coming other than thief sword 3 and rangers water field heal… so will have to wait and see what they tone down. Hopefully warriors sustain/mobility a little and necro’s condi spam…

Best buff would be to make Scepter clones Melee clones; there by buffing shatter builds and also ClonePop builds.

I would like to see a change to scepter that you could choose to not have a clone made. You really can’t get a phantasm build with scepter because of it popping out clones.

yeah scepter block gets a buff! time to dust off my rabid armor with tormenting runes. the block saved my life quite often in the past. maybe helps with wielding off spamming thieves a little.

Mesmer community “please fix scepter 1”
Anet “we’re reducing cd on scepter 2 and 3”

Okay.

^

I actually would have liked a re-worked sceptre 1 then a small cd decrease on two skills that kinda didn’t need one lol.

Either way, its a start, BRING ON MOAR BUFFS.

^ I agree sometimes I have to hit [Esc] because my autohit would kill my phantasms (even if its soo~ slooo~w)

its faster melee

i still couldnt get any reason to roll for a mesmer in large scaled organized groups..

Have to remember, this was only a highlight of the changes, so not completely inclusive, nor any nerfs.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Any news on the supposed 20% nerf to Phantasm damage?
whats the cool down on iCounter going to be? with just 30% duration increase mine lasts 10.5seconds. Thats just from 20% Trait and 10% Rune set, no food or anything else.

If it happens I blame Colesy.

lol.. if u wanna blame somebody check anet staffs for untransparent policy..
let them give us all classes co-efficienties and hit per second for auto attacks as #1 skills.. where we can compare dps.. and others..
Tooltips-? kitten .. and ofc correct tooltips.. WE ARE NOT IN BETA.. or alfa..

Fhaeris.9237:

Mesmer community “please fix scepter 1”
Anet “we’re reducing cd on scepter 2 and 3”

Okay.

Yep. Very silly. Scepter biggest weakness is the auto attack and for Phantasm builds the clone that is created.

Compare foer example the Necro Scepter Auto attack:

Hit 1: 4 second Bleeding 1/2second cast time
Hit 2: 4 second Bleeding 1/2second cast time
Hit 3: 4 second Poison 1/2 cast time

Vs

Hit 1: 1/2second cast time
Hit 2: 1/2second cast time
Hit 3: 1 second cast time + Clone

Seems very weak, no conditions, slower and then you have to consider the time it takes to get to the target. Just dont understand why it hasnt been fixed. I think the fact they have reduced the cool downs show they want more people to use the weapon but currently the auto attack is far to weak to make it worth using in my opinion.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fhaeris.9237:

Mesmer community “please fix scepter 1”
Anet “we’re reducing cd on scepter 2 and 3”

Okay.

Yep. Very silly. Scepter biggest weakness is the auto attack and for Phantasm builds the clone that is created.

Compare foer example the Necro Scepter Auto attack:

Hit 1: 4 second Bleeding 1/2second cast time
Hit 2: 4 second Bleeding 1/2second cast time
Hit 3: 4 second Poison 1/2 cast time

Vs

Hit 1: 1/2second cast time
Hit 2: 1/2second cast time
Hit 3: 1 second cast time + Clone

Seems very weak, no conditions, slower and then you have to consider the time it takes to get to the target. Just dont understand why it hasnt been fixed. I think the fact they have reduced the cool downs show they want more people to use the weapon but currently the auto attack is far to weak to make it worth using in my opinion.

I do agree it could use a buff, but whether is worth using depends heavily on your build I guess.

In my case I generally use scepter (with pistol or focus offhand), hit 3 means confusion (3s), cripple (3s) and a random condition (which can be 3s of weakness, 3×5s of bleeding or 3×5s of vulnerability) to nearby foes. The build I’m using makes clones apply all that when they’re killed, so the big value of the 3rd shot for me is not only the clone it creates, but that if I have 3 illusions out already, one of them is killed every 3rd shot, applying all that to nearby enemies.

locoman.1974:

I do agree it could use a buff, but whether is worth using depends heavily on your build I guess.

In my case I generally use scepter (with pistol or focus offhand), hit 3 means confusion (3s), cripple (3s) and a random condition (which can be 3s of weakness, 3×5s of bleeding or 3×5s of vulnerability) to nearby foes. The build I’m using makes clones apply all that when they’re killed, so the big value of the 3rd shot for me is not only the clone it creates, but that if I have 3 illusions out already, one of them is killed every 3rd shot, applying all that to nearby enemies.

Yeah while that is nice the problem of it remains the auto attack (bar the clone) is VERY weak, the projectile is to slow and the cast time is insane for no reason what so ever.

A few minor changes would really bring the best of the weapon to the front. Seeing as its our “Condition” main hand weapon, based on the fact that the 2nd and 3rd skills are condition related i dont see the problem in adding conditions to the auto attack. The Projectile also needs to have its movement speed increased as its far to slow and easily avoided.

They could even turn it into a smaller Staff auto attack – In that the attacks from the chain apply a random condition something like:

Hit 1: Burning, Bleeding or Poison
Hit 2: Vul, Weakness or Cripple
Hit 3: Confusion or Torment

The durations would need to be balanced and the clone would still be summoned Thinking something like:

Burning 1 second, Bleeding 4 seconds, Poison 4 seconds
Vul 2 seconds, Weakness 2 seconds, Cripple 1 second
Confusion and Torment 1 seconds

The Confusion and Torment would be 1 stack, So it could be stacked but would require about 50% Condution Duration and would need to be spamming the Auto attack to take full affect of it.

What do you guys think?

I think that’s a dumb idea. They should just make it so scepter shoots a beam that looks like the GS beam so the bads who are dazzled by pretty colors will use it instead of GS.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think that’s a dumb idea. They should just make it so scepter shoots a beam that looks like the GS beam so the bads who are dazzled by pretty colors will use it instead of GS.

You saying only bad players use Greatsword?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I think that’s a dumb idea. They should just make it so scepter shoots a beam that looks like the GS beam so the bads who are dazzled by pretty colors will use it instead of GS.

You saying only bad players use Greatsword?

Why? Why would you start this?

Fhaeris.9237:

Mesmer community “please fix scepter 1”
Anet “we’re reducing cd on scepter 2 and 3”

Okay.

Yes because the mesmer community is full of so many great and balanced ideas (it’s not).

Well we may have overpowered Ideas but most of them have a gread background and would really fit in the game. Balancing is Arenanets work not ours. We can just say if it’s ok, op or worthless.

Maybe the Cripple, Torment and Confusion would be strong. They could be countered by having really short durations. Could even just remove Confusion and just keep it as Torment with a short duration.

Hell i would be happy with:

Hit 1: Bleeding 4 seconds
Hit 2: Poison 4 seconds
Hit 3: Bleeding 4 seconds

It just needs something added.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Honestly, the block didn’t need the buff (though I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth), and the problem with confusing images isn’t the cooldown, it’s with confusion, and so this buff didn’t really help at all.

Additionally, the major issue with the scepter —the incredibly clunky autoattack-- still is unresolved.

Mantras being buffed is good I suppose…but I doubt how much use they’ll really get. They still are going to be difficult to use effectively together in PvP simply because you can’t afford to be standing around casting mantras the whole time, especially in this interrupt heavy meta.

Additionally, I worry that the radius they decide to put these mantras on might be too small, sorta causing a venomshare issue where the only way to use them effectively is to be severely violating the privacy of your teammates.

This.

I agree 100% with Pyro here. Until scepter skill #1 is fixed we are going to have issues with the scepter, no doubts on that.

Also, lets all be honest and come out on the mantra buffs: they are weak sauce. It doesn’t address the enormous difficulty these skills have. They should have buffed traits revolving around mantra’s to give stronger options for mantra’s like a trait that makes the effect of a used mantra aoe; that way skills like mantra of pain would serve a purpose instead of slowing down our dps by making those skills all worthwhile. Or else a trait that reduces charge time! Would make a mantra centric build feel sorta strong(the cast times still kill it but it would have been nice). But, in the end this will still not see any real use. Actually, is ANYONE planning on making a build that uses the buffs from this update?

Hmm, maybe it’s just me, and maybe I’m just pessimistic at this point but things this patch seem to have followed every other one:

1> Obligatory Mesmer nerf (iDuelist) check. There’s always one, the “balance” team has to throw at LEAST one nerf at mesmer or other classes will complain which they do anyways so at least it’s consistent.
2> Bunch of changes that really don’t do a kitten thing other then allow for some new testing which generally results in something that is:
A> Not fun, and is generally more tedious then current builds for less results.
B> all BUT useless (but it’s so close to useless its scary)
C> Both of the above**.
3> Changed something to throw off the fact there are still several bugs that still exist for the class that have yet to be fixed.
4> Throw at least one bone to the mesmer in such a way that it’s neither a nerf nor a buff, but we can still watch people complain (EG: clones/phantasms ignore the new targeting rules).

Yup, still on target for the usual, nothing to see here.

To say i’m disappointed in this patch, is an understatement. The preview was just about everything we got, sad to say but our section of changes is down right pathetic compared to every other class.

Freedan.1769:

Actually, is ANYONE planning on making a build that uses the buffs from this update?

As I said, people will do some testing then go right back to what they were using before, cause frankly put the changes are not enough to warrant the use of Mantras which still remain the weakest tools in our list of skills.

(**If you answered C, you’re right).

The one place (if any) where there’ll likely be more mantra usage will be in PvP, where these buffs could give teams a decided advantage. It remains to be seen if it plays out that way in practice.

I see a lot of people talking about Scepter “buffs,” are they worth it? Maybe, I see the cool down reduction as a very stable point of scepter, but like everyone says Scepter’s auto attack is very weak. As most people agree, it should be sped up. On the other hand, IF it was sped up, how powerful would/could that be? Lets say that instead of having to wait on projectiles to hit before the next part of the chain casts, what if it started instantly after the previous cast? That means it would take 2 seconds (not my calculations, but according to Fhaeris.9237) for an entire chain to finish. So with only crippling dissipation clone pop, we could keep 5 enemies constantly crippled. With confusing combatants we could easily keep 2-3 confusion up at all times. (There is also Debilitating Dissipation, but I don’t want to work out the RNG of it…) To be fair, that seems a little OP to me. . . Now, I know the scepter needs some work, and I really don’t have a clue on how to fix it without overpowering it.

On the other side of the “buffs” I think most people agree Mantras are clunky. They interfere with ALL other skills except themselves (and maybe a few exceptions like blink and phase retreat). To me a simple fix would be allowing us full use of all skills while we “chant” a mantra (of course besides channeling other mantras). Even something as simple as allowing auto attacks would at least increase the effectiveness of mantras. Personally I think Mantras need to be changed completely (including the associated traits), and I think I might have a fix for that. What if mantras did not use a “charge” based system, and instead were channeled skills. Seems like a really good fix for mantra of pain (a steady damage source with a spike at the end, instead of just spikes). Even Concentration could be a channeled stability (could be used to “bait” a daze/stun). Recovery is a little bit harder to work that way, but it could instead have the heals at intervals (something like every 1 second or 1 1/2 second). Distraction and Resolve could also be based off intervals. Actually, the more I think about that, they could all be based off intervals with a “bonus” at the end. Traits wouldn’t have to be changed much either to work with the new system. Harmonious mantras could provide a longer channel time (enough for 3 effects) with a larger bonus for finishing the mantra). Mantra Mastery, Protected Mantras, and Restorative Mantras wouldn’t need to be changed at all. Empowering Mantras would be harder to change, since we wouldn’t have “readied” mantras anymore. Something like damage while chanting would be decent enough.

Overall I think we are headed in the right direction. The buffs are appreciated and needed, but a few more things need to be worked on.

P.s. Whew, sorry for that wall of text just thought I would throw in my two cents (or in this case, more like 400 cents. . .)

P.s.s. IF you don’t feel like reading this huge wall of text, I’m sorry for that, but at least read the second paragraph. It has a somewhat decent idea for mantras.

There are couple of things that people usually overlook when talk about Scepter #1:

- you won’t use the autoattack all the time, if it gets buffed, it just encourages boring gameplay and likely make Scepter OP with certain builds.

- the attack speed is affected by the projectile travel time, which means using it at melee range, it is just as fast as sword autoattack.

- the autoatttack chain is not reset when u don’t hit a target, which means u even can try to slash air with the first 2 of the chain then hit your target with Ether Clone.

All this is really important and it does somewhat explain the hidden philosophy behind scepter – Subterfuge

The scepter at first sight, looks like a mediocre weapon, in fact, u wanna try to make your enemies believe in it, until you get creative and punish them for underestimating its power.

Peace