Guild Wars 2

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.”

Yes, but by the time you stunbreak and dodge the burst has already happend. And there are a few mitigations of damage skills out there but they normerly have long CDs and CS has two charges. As for hypothetical examples? A mesmer fights some class. he presses 3 buttens. He gets off a large burst or depending on the class it gets mitigated. Then when he has another burst up a little later he does the same thing except now the enemy has used his mitigation. 20 seconds later he can start casting MoD in stealth or later on. Anyway see the above by Quadox.7834. He/she has a very good point on it lowering the overall skill cap of mesmer in addition to the fact it totally blows the other traits there out of the water.

The burst is 2 seconds long. How you are not stunbreaking and dodging to avoid at least half is strange.

Sure you might be able to dodge after most of the burst has hit you depending on how far away the enemy is.

And I’m saying you’re wrong. Did you completely ignore what I just posted? I’m guessing yes, there’s a pattern of that here. As for rending shatter, comparing it to other crappy traits doesn’t make it look better, it just makes it look like you have a whole bunch of crappy traits…

Anyway, I’m thinking we should probably just abandon the thread at this point. It’s only still alive because we persist in doing the equivalent of having an animated conversation with a kittenroach: it doesn’t care what we say, and it’s not going to stop doing what it does no matter how eloquently you talk to it.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

you would go back to the old days

How is this a selling point? The old days weren’t great days for the mesmer.

the selling point is to play mesmer with this change would at the top tier in a duel would mean you would have to be pretty good at landing your bursts instead of simply pressing an extra butten.

One trait doesn’t mean you’ve “mastered” anything. Even if it did, it only means you mastered one build.

Take away that guys greatsword, or mantra of distraction, and see how much of a “master” they are.

CS doesn’t make Mesmer as a whole easier to play, it makes a somewhat hard-to-grasp meta build more forgiving. If the only thing that makes CS too “faceroll” is the combination of dom/dueling + fire/air runes + marauder amulet + mantra of distraction + greatsword…

… Then you’re not mad at the trait, you’re mad at a specific build that incorporates it.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

the selling point is to play mesmer with this change would at the top tier in a duel would mean you would have to be pretty good at landing your bursts instead of simply pressing an extra butten.

1. Are you saying you’re at this top tier? If not, why the kitten not?
2. Why bring up the “old days” if they have nothing to do with your point, then?

Not only should CS be removed, the mesmer profession should also be locked for new players. If you want to play mesmer you need to acquire the other 7 “Champion X” PvP titles to ensure you have the appropriate base skill and knowledge. All mesmers should be praised for their extraordinary mechanical prowess. They are the elite!

Fay.2357:

And I’m saying you’re wrong. Did you completely ignore what I just posted? I’m guessing yes, there’s a pattern of that here. As for rending shatter, comparing it to other crappy traits doesn’t make it look better, it just makes it look like you have a whole bunch of crappy traits…

Anyway, I’m thinking we should probably just abandon the thread at this point. It’s only still alive because we persist in doing the equivalent of having an animated conversation with a kittenroach: it doesn’t care what we say, and it’s not going to stop doing what it does no matter how eloquently you talk to it.

What part do you think I’m wrong with? The part that it would make bursting as mesmer in a duel actually take some skill? And I’m just saying compared to a LOT ( you even said this in your latest post ) of traits the other ones aren’t bad. So you could either buff a whole ton of the traits or nerf CS. Anyway ya this discussion kinda ended a long time ago. Almost exactly around when the trolls got in.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Almost exactly around when the trolls got in.

Glass houses, Fry.

“CS doesn’t make Mesmer as a whole easier to play, it makes a somewhat hard-to-grasp meta build more forgiving.”

That’s it. I can only laugh at trolls for so long. My laughing time is up, and my brain start to hurt is starting to role in. Of course it doesn’t make the whole of mesmer easier to play. It just makes people who choose that trait and MoD in duels easier to play. Which is why CS should get changed. I don’t mind traits that make a class significantly easier to play unless it’s also the most effective at the top tier. Playing something at the top tier should be challenging and CS just made that a lot less so. Add some more counterplay and you make it so other skilled players can atleast deal with it. And no, I do not consider myself top tier but I think of other people not just myself. Should have ditched this thread the instant some of the people from that dungeon chronomancer discussion entered.

So long trolls.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“CS doesn’t make Mesmer as a whole easier to play, it makes a somewhat hard-to-grasp meta build more forgiving.”

That’s it. I can only laugh at trolls for so long. My laughing time is up, and my brain start to hurt is starting to role in. Of course it doesn’t make the whole of mesmer easier to play. It just makes people who choose that trait and MoD in duels easier to play. Which is why CS should get changed. I don’t mind traits that make a class significantly easier to play unless it’s also the most effective at the top tier. Playing something at the top tier should be challenging and CS just made that a lot less so. Add some more counterplay and you make it so other skilled players can atleast deal with it. And no, I do not consider myself top tier but I think of other people not just myself. Should have ditched this thread the instant some of the people from that dungeon chronomancer discussion entered.

So long trolls.

Duels should now be naked! Take 10 steps then fire the duelist or pistol 5!!

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

And no, I do not consider myself top tier but I think of other people not just myself.

You said, quote:

the selling point is to play mesmer with this change would at the top tier in a duel would mean you would have to be pretty good at landing your bursts instead of simply pressing an extra butten.

If this were true, then you, Fry, should be at the top tier of play, just by taking CS. So if you are correct, then you should be at the top tier in a duel. So how did your last duel against supcutie or helseth go? Or your last tournament?

You also said, quote:

I’m saying it’s far easier to “master” mesmer when you have a trait like CS.

This would only be relevant if even people of reasonable skill, such as yourself, which I vouched for, were actually mastering mesmer because of CS. So have you mastered mesmer?
How did your last duel against supcutie or helseth go? Or your last tournament?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

So long trolls.

Glass houses, Fry.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Yeah, ask Chaos and Alpha about that.

I read what Chaos said. I’ve also dueled Chaos on my kshot war.

I’m confused why CS is called out and CI isn’t. If a Mesmer traits CI and not CS, a successful interrupt will still 1) Daze the opponent and 2) Immobilize + [X-Condition] the enemy (FYI the combination of daze and immob is effectively a stun) and 3) Grant the Mesmer 5 stacks of might + [X-Boon]. There is no ICD for this. It works with MoD, an F3 chain daze, a focus pull, a Chaos Storm, a greatsword push, a sword daze a pistol stun Mirror of Anguish, anything that you reflect that interrupts and, soon, Tides of Time and Gravity well. Sorry, I forgot Signet of Domination. Zero ICD.

Were I playing a glass class, I’d be far more afraid of being caught in any CI interrupt (with, say, Empowered Illusions) than I would be with CS. Bring a stun break or two, some blinds, some stability, some blocks, some friends and some LoS.

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

I don’t know if this could get any better.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

Well no, you were beat a few pages ago, you just wouldn’t admit it.

Edit: Correction: Your argument was beat a few pages ago, you kept on taking the beating.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

Well, winning a discussion is subjective, so however one chooses to interpret really.

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

Well no, you were beat a few pages ago, you just wouldn’t admit it.

Edit: Correction: Your argument was beat a few pages ago, you kept on taking the beating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wait.. Why am I a troll? O.o

Is a troll just.. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you? Cuz usually big brother Ross rolls in and does all the trolling anyone ever needs.

.. Can we get this thread locked yet?

(Also, Ross, I hate you. -_-)

Naw, not so much you tho some stuff you have said is pretty……….

Aka yes, stuff that doesn’t agree with you (read: anything involving reason and logic) is trolly.

Sometimes a man gets a beating and just doesn’t want to get beat no more (read: also see Chaos A).

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL this is the exact reason I stopped the discussion. Cause apparently stopping a discussion is “getting beat”

Well no, you were beat a few pages ago, you just wouldn’t admit it.

Edit: Correction: Your argument was beat a few pages ago, you kept on taking the beating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

Ha, this made my day!

Another freak show of a thread. I sense a pattern going on here.

Munches on popcorn

@TheFrighteningFrenchFry:
We seem to have utterly different experiences in GW2 PvP. I personally find it easier to run a shatter build (power or condi) with MoR or Decoy, Blink and Portal. Either MoR or Decoy make it easier to survive (depending on team compositions). I do run CS on a power shatter build too. I personally though make a conscious choice to play a power lockdown build with MoD, Blink and Portal.

My experience is that it becomes significantly harder to fight any build with good access to Stability and it becomes easier to fight builds that don’t (like most Necromancers I meet out there). To say that CS+MoD makes it easier to hit burst is not what actually ever happened to me. Landing a burst is no issue on both builds, the approach how to land a burst is different as well as the ability to survive for the next try. With the Lockdown build one needs even more awareness as to what your opponent is doing. On a shatter build, your next burst is up quickly, so is it on a lockdown build, but on lockdown your tries are limited to 2 or 3 times (obviously going for harmonious mantras [which I do] comes with an additional significant trade off). So you need to be more careful what you do with those charges. After you have expended your charges, you are for a time so much weaker compared to a shatter build.

You always make the assumption, just because you hit one button to stun and this stun has only a 5 seconds cool down, it makes things more easy. But you seem to ignore, that you give up a potentially defensive utility slot, you have a limited amount of tries in a certain time window and people actually have adapted.

After the initial balance patch, I had an awesome time, especially against thieves. I stunned stuff left and right and felt like the master of the universe. And you seem to have had a similar experience. People have learned though and there were certain balance changes and bug fixes. It is a very different experience now. I can’t really judge on a broad scale, if lockdown with CS+MoD is easier than a power shatter build or not. I can assure you though, that against a half decent opponent, it is actually a challenge to make lockdown really shine.

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Yeah, ask Chaos and Alpha about that.

I read what Chaos said. I’ve also dueled Chaos on my kshot war.

I feel so tricked. Always thought you played an OHK-Shatter-Mesmer.

The thread doesn’t seem to go anywhere new anymore. Let’s take a break and lock it.

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

So i guess the entire thread turned into a sandbox of 5-year olds.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap.

True. If we are being picky, almost everything has an infinite skillcap. Tic Tac Toe is one of the few games where i can actually see the skillcap before me. Back on topic. Rereading my post i see that a much more effective and accurate way to describe the issue is that Confounding Suggestions simply makes the game easy. No need for terms such as skill cap or skill floor this time. Something that gives the Mesmer a way to set up a burst that doesn’t require timing, reactions or anything else, simply makes Mesmer much easier to play and much more frustrating to play against. Same goes for other low-skill traits such as PU. Frustrating to fight and super easy to play.

Bursting is not only “slightly easier” because of CS, the difference is huge, and it absolutely makes a bad and impatient Mesmer still be able to burst easily. You mention “other ways” to land bursts. Assuming no CC help from teammates, the only other mechanic that essentially gives Mesmer a “free” burst is stealth- something that also lacks counterplay in this game (Let’s not discuss this here).

Tealots.6095:

I’m confused why CS is called out and CI isn’t. If a Mesmer traits CI and not CS, a successful interrupt will still 1) Daze the opponent and 2) Immobilize + [X-Condition] the enemy (FYI the combination of daze and immob is effectively a stun) and 3) Grant the Mesmer 5 stacks of might + [X-Boon]. There is no ICD for this. It works with MoD, an F3 chain daze, a focus pull, a Chaos Storm, a greatsword push, a sword daze a pistol stun Mirror of Anguish, anything that you reflect that interrupts and, soon, Tides of Time and Gravity well. Sorry, I forgot Signet of Domination. Zero ICD.

Were I playing a glass class, I’d be far more afraid of being caught in any CI interrupt (with, say, Empowered Illusions) than I would be with CS. Bring a stun break or two, some blinds, some stability, some blocks, some friends and some LoS.

(Some of) the main reasons:

1: Baiting CI since it only triggers on interrupt is something that you can do.
2: It isn’t run very often
3: If i mentioned CI again I’m pretty sure the Mesmer forums would rally against me and I would get guillotined. Came pretty close last time!

Quadox.7834:

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

Bursting is not only “slightly easier” because of CS, the difference is huge, and it absolutely makes a bad and impatient Mesmer still be able to burst easily. You mention “other ways” to land bursts. Assuming no CC help from teammates, the only other mechanic that essentially gives Mesmer a “free” burst is stealth- something that also lacks counterplay in this game (Let’s not discuss this here).

The existence of Mental Anguish supports the uttermost intention behind the CS/MoD setup.

Mesmer isnt only intended to take advantage of this setup, they’re meant to utterly destroy their target in the process. +30% damage vs inactivity doesn’t lie.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Quadox.7834:

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

Bursting is not only “slightly easier” because of CS, the difference is huge, and it absolutely makes a bad and impatient Mesmer still be able to burst easily. You mention “other ways” to land bursts. Assuming no CC help from teammates, the only other mechanic that essentially gives Mesmer a “free” burst is stealth- something that also lacks counterplay in this game (Let’s not discuss this here).

The existence of Mental Anguish supports the uttermost intention behind the CS/MoD setup.

Mesmer isnt only intended to take advantage of this setup, they’re meant to utterly destroy their target in the process. +30% damage vs inactivity doesn’t lie.

They clearly know the developers intent.

They are just part of a crowd that likes the good old days when it meant something to even pull off a shatter. It’s a #noscope fps mentality.

It’s strange that they don’t realise the skill floor of mesmer is too high already.

@quaddox @fry
The basic GS combo of 4 2 f1 3 is enough that many people still miss it. Older players and those with lag have difficulty syncing the skills so the burst lands close together, or making sure they don’t mind wrack the phantasm before it strikes the target or before the mirror blade clone is summoned. It hard enough that the target is moving, even with a 1.25 second stun the burst occurs over 2+ seconds.

Let’s compare this to warrior. They flurry, immediately swap, hundred blades. No timing required. Spam away.

Let’s compare to necromancer. They shroud, fear, gap close, summon binding chains, then life blast at its highest power as you try to get away before the chains immobilize you. No timing required. Spam away.

Do you know what happens when a “bad and impatient mesmer” presses 4 2 f1 3 in quick succession while in melee range based on a combo they saw online? Here I’ll you. They execute a 2 clone mind wrack plus a mind stab, and a single GS clone is left up pew pewing. Their OP burst does around 5k+ less than it is suppose to. Much timing required.

Why change the skill floor?

Edit: deceptive evasion tied to dodge, learn to conserve them as you have to use this trait most of the time. Auto attack is not the main source of damage. Summoned phantasms and clones will not positionally be in your control , even for the most part where they summon. Bounces do not have universal behavior. Your phantasms attack at a rate you should memorize. Our skill floor of learning how this class works resembles other classes cap .

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

Cheers. I think it’s fair to say this cleared everything up.

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Hallelujah!

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

On the off chance that you’re not being funny (and unlike my comrades, I feel like pointing your errors out if you’re serious):

2. The OP was actually saying interrupts take more skill than CS, which doesn’t require an interrupt. So, your entire point is irrelevant.

3. Perplexity gives 5 stacks of confusion. Mistrust gives 2 stacks. At most you can get 7 stacks out of an interrupt.

4. Reliable interrupts are one of the most difficult mechanics in the game. Point me to the mechanics that are harder to pull off. If you can find more than a couple, you deserve a cookie. The timing is hard, and if you fail you’ve accomplished nothing. Perplexity “noobs” are nothing even with their runes, because noobs can’t do anything with them. I’m not a noob, and I can barely do anything with them.

5. Condition damage is not the problem. 14 stacks of condis can be cleansed, and then the mesmer is boned, because he threw everything he had into those stacks and has nothing left for another 10s.

6. It’s clear you were never a “skilful player”, and the things you say don’t match up to what skillful players say, so I don’t know why you are talking about them as though you know how they play.

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Sure it wasn’t just a seizure?

Xaylin.1860:

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Sure it wasn’t just a seizure?

Commenting on his spelling is poor taste if you want to keep the moral high ground . His meaning was transferred, he could be dyslexic, or a non native speaker, or using a phone with a bad keyboard, or something else entirely. None of the above is relevant to the points he makes. All that you accomplished is make our declaration of troll less impactful since ability to be 100% objective has been called into question.

Tldr; sigh more disappointing comments to a disappointing discussion.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Xaylin.1860:

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Sure it wasn’t just a seizure?

Commenting on his spelling is poor taste if you want to keep the moral high ground . His meaning was transferred, he could be dyslexic, or a non native speaker, or using a phone with a bad keyboard, or something else entirely. None of the above is relevant to the points he makes. All that you accomplished is make our declaration of troll less impactful since ability to be 100% objective has been called into question.

Tldr; sigh more disappointing comments to a disappointing discussion.

You quoted the wrong person. Edited, nevertheless.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Xaylin.1860:

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

…

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Sure it wasn’t just a seizure?

Commenting on his spelling is poor taste if you …

Maaaaybeeee just read more carefully and re-check who I’m talking to or about. I’m rather surprised that anyone would take my post as making fun of anyone rather than teasing Pyro.

Xaylin.1860:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Xaylin.1860:

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

…

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Sure it wasn’t just a seizure?

Commenting on his spelling is poor taste if you …

Maaaaybeeee just read more carefully and re-check who I’m talking to or about. I’m rather surprised that anyone would take my post as making fun of anyone rather than teasing Pyro.

Consider the implication of asking someone if their enlightenment during reading a post was actually because they had a seizure while and/or a result of reading the post. There is no good way to comment on Pyro’s statement without indirectly commenting on who he was replying to.

Is this thread still going on? Oh my Lyssa…

StickerHappy.8052:

Is this thread still going on? Oh my Lyssa…

It really is. Perhaps if we shift the topic it will lock faster.

Hey pyro what is your favorite siege weapon in the game, I like the arrow cart.

I don’t know why your so keen to get it locked. You can just stop replying like I did when you realize replying isn’t going to do any good.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

go back to the old days

Whenever this phrase is uttered in the Mesmer forums, I die a bit more on the inside… considering that “the old days” of Mesmer is 95% comprised of Mesmer being completely and utterly unviable.

/thread

Oh so..? Its done then..okay.