Agreed, but this adds a couple more confusion sources we didn’t have before, so it could potentially add some spice to it. The #6 slot is by far the most intriguing, assuming no internal CD. Problem of course is that you have to “waste” all your rune slots to get the full effects, so I’m not sure if it’s worth it.
I don’t need more confusion sources, I want my current ones to be meaningful. My Engineer feels much more like a Confusion class than my Mesmer, because of Pistol #3 and Bomb #3.
I want Cry of Frustration to be meaningful. If it means it gets a long CD, if it means it blocks me from summoning new clones, so be it. But allow it to be a dangerous tool please.
Not an inferior Mind Wrack.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
So I did some dirty testing on this. The confusion is definitely when you hit someone it looks like the base duration is 5 secs and its 3 stacks when YOU hit someone not like the others when you get hit.
The interrupt confusion is 3 stacks for 10 seconds also. I got 3 stacks for 20 secs of confusion. I kind of think they rune is worth it. Just from quick testing.
It doesn’t let you break the 100% condition duration cap like lingering curses for necromancers.
RUNE is bugged avoid for the time being. Right now when you hit something YOU get the 3 stacks of confusion. I put in a bug report already hopefully it get fixed soon.
Also the new sigil of malice and bursting are the same thing but different crafting disciplines. They both give +6% condition duration(overall condition duration) kind of meh.
The rune of exuberance seems to be pretty good though for people wanting to go tanky.
So I did some dirty testing on this. The confusion is definitely when you hit someone it looks like the base duration is 5 secs and its 3 stacks when YOU hit someone not like the others when you get hit.
The interrupt confusion is 3 stacks for 10 seconds also. I got 3 stacks for 20 secs of confusion. I kind of think they rune is worth it. Just from quick testing.
It doesn’t let you break the 100% condition duration cap like lingering curses for necromancers.
30% from the runes
30% from the illusions trait
40% from food
So in WVW, that’s +100% confusion duration. With duelist + Etheral Fields, confusion on clone death trait and scepter, you could have it up constantly, which even with the lower damage numbers, would be hard to deal with.
Staff + Scepter/Pistol, 0/30/20/0/20 maybe?
- Richard
After I’m elected, bribing me will be considered a “gold sink”
- John Smith
So I did some dirty testing on this. The confusion is definitely when you hit someone it looks like the base duration is 5 secs and its 3 stacks when YOU hit someone not like the others when you get hit.
The interrupt confusion is 3 stacks for 10 seconds also. I got 3 stacks for 20 secs of confusion. I kind of think they rune is worth it. Just from quick testing.
It doesn’t let you break the 100% condition duration cap like lingering curses for necromancers.
30% from the runes
30% from the illusions trait
40% from food
So in WVW, that’s +100% confusion duration. With duelist + Etheral Fields, confusion on clone death trait and scepter, you could have it up constantly, which even with the lower damage numbers, would be hard to deal with.
Staff + Scepter/Pistol, 0/30/20/0/20 maybe?
- Richard
Oh yea I didnt even think of that setup as a possibility. I was thinking with the 20/20/30 setup that many condi mesmers are using now.
Yea with this +trait you can still spec into condition damage via the illusions line and not have to necessarily go into dom.
My tests where with 30 in dom just to see if I could break the 100% cap.
My mesmer has the runes on now but they are bugged (also kind of expensive to make currently) so he will have to sit until they fix it.
Been thinking about the following build with these runes:
Dom (0)
Duel (25): V, X
Chaos (25): V, X
Inspir (0)
Illus (20): V, VII
However, does Master of Misdirection still work? It should give 33% longer confusion, but doesn’t show up in the Character Tab.
I’ll miss the CD trait on Torch from Dom, and I’ll certainly miss Prismatic Understanding, but basically trying to create a build with decent survivability, lots of stealth, good confusion damage/duration and lots and lots and lots of ways of applying confusion.
Confusion doesn’t hit as hard as it used to, but taking the philosophy of “the straw that broke the camel’s back” and trying to keep lots of stacks up.
So is this anet’s way of apologizing for destroying confusion? A rune set that is only minimally better than undead runes?
It’s a shame that glamour builds are dead and buried, this would be really fun to use with them.
Mmm well I wouldn’t say they are minimally better than undead runes. The 6th piece from undead runes is usually about 70 condition damage which hardly is alot with the way condition damage scales. Here at least you get +30% duration for confusion. Which means you can if you like not have to go into domination and can put the points into illusions. It gives you more flexibility. The 3 extra stacks proc effect can be pretty good with scepter you would proc 8 stacks if the whole channel hits and you proc the effect. With a mage out that would be 11 stacks of confusion with 8 stacks at 10 seconds and another 3 stacks at 6 secs all with out having to go into domination if you build the 100% duration for confusion.
This is just theory crafting off top of my head though. With clone death confusion on top of all shatters apply confusion it basically would be 100% uptime on confusion probably at 5+ stacks in a 1v1 scenario.
Right now the rune is bugged though so I can’t go out in WvW and really test it without killing myself
I have a build in my mind with iMage and iElasticity, it could work.
Dont forget tormenting runes, 7 stacks of torment with increased duration could be outstanding in wvw.
Kinda makes the weapons not typically taken in condition builds more of a viable option. Like Sw/Sw, you’re going to proc on #4 every 15 seconds for sure (BF AoE confusion goodness, anyone??), but also via the new updated daze on couterspell with #6. Definitely a lot of possibilities to consider. Going 30 in Illusions w/iPersona remains the best way to spread AoE confusion – that, coupled with AoE interrupts could be pretty fun to play with. A quick 10 stacks with that combo, AoE, with those long durations? Not too bad. To oZii’s point, not having to take points in dom for condition duration makes things interesting for trying some new things with this rune set (assuming they fix it soon).
I will also say that the #6 slot reads more like a trait to me, but in this case it’s obviously nice for any class which can inflict confusion.
Until they cleanse because conditions are the new meta and everyone (except Mesmers) run condition removal.
Condition necros should have fun with this.
And you reapply it. Skills are meant to be used.
I dont know what weird type of mesmer you are but I definitely run condition removals on my mesmer – melandru runes, traited torch, arcane thievery with reduced cd and think, they also have offensive uses.
We can put so many conditions on a target that it will have a bad time to cleanse torment and other conditions. And if it does, you easily reapply them.
Edit: And dont forget that the two stacks on heal are aoe.
Could I get confirmation that the runes are bugged, and precisely how they are bugged?
They are bugged I tested these myself. The 4 piece bonus is suppose to apply the confusion to the enemy 20% chance to proc. Instead it applies the confusion to you when it procs.
If anyone has a elementalist its similar to the Glyph of elemental Power bug where you pop it in fire attunement and you would burn yourself when it procc’d.
side note none of the new runes or sigils are in sPvP.
What I said about confusion not being worth it was not because is does no damage, the problem with it is that sucks a little bit when you want to be it as your main source of damage. With the non-sense confusion nerf, they killed a whole way to go for mesmers. In the other hand, it’s a very good second damage option, as people tent to forget about it.
The main problem with this rune is that there’re other options to reach +100% full condition duration, so you’ll have the same effect as this one, plus having double torment, bleeds from sharper images and fire from staff and torch.
The only thing that saves this rune is the interrupt fact. But in a game where skills have very low/non cast time, interrupt scene is very little.
What I said about confusion not being worth it was not because is does no damage, the problem with it is that sucks a little bit when you want to be it as your main source of damage. With the non-sense confusion nerf, they killed a whole way to go for mesmers. In the other hand, it’s a very good second damage option, as people tent to forget about it.
The main problem with this rune is that there’re other options to reach +100% full condition duration, so you’ll have the same effect as this one, plus having double torment, bleeds from sharper images and fire from staff and torch.
The only thing that saves this rune is the interrupt fact. But in a game where skills have very low/non cast time, interrupt scene is very little.
If you’re getting 100% condi duration you’re doing it wrong.
You’re giving up tons and i mean tons of condi to get 100% duration. Unless you’re fighting the biggest idiots ever you’re better off having more condi power.
No idea why you would try to get 100% duration except for PVE in which case why are you running condi at all for PVE?
I’m just sitting here laughing at people giving up 179 condi for 10% duration. Not to mention the almost 200 condi you get from a 5/6 rune set.
What I said about confusion not being worth it was not because is does no damage, the problem with it is that sucks a little bit when you want to be it as your main source of damage. With the non-sense confusion nerf, they killed a whole way to go for mesmers. In the other hand, it’s a very good second damage option, as people tent to forget about it.
The main problem with this rune is that there’re other options to reach +100% full condition duration, so you’ll have the same effect as this one, plus having double torment, bleeds from sharper images and fire from staff and torch.
The only thing that saves this rune is the interrupt fact. But in a game where skills have very low/non cast time, interrupt scene is very little.
If you’re getting 100% condi duration you’re doing it wrong.
You’re giving up tons and i mean tons of condi to get 100% duration. Unless you’re fighting the biggest idiots ever you’re better off having more condi power.
No idea why you would try to get 100% duration except for PVE in which case why are you running condi at all for PVE?
I’m just sitting here laughing at people giving up 179 condi for 10% duration. Not to mention the almost 200 condi you get from a 5/6 rune set.
^^ Exactly ^^
And condition removal ruins all the benefits of condition duration.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
They responded in your thread hopefully fixed soon so we can go test this out.
Godmoney is spot on. If you can get condition duration and condition damage then thats perfect but you don’t want to go to deep into either but a balance is good.
In a 1h weapon set like scepter/torch I will take 1 giver weapon if I must to get to 75% of whatever condi I am looking to boost. At that point I only need 9 corruption stacks to get back to equal numbers. If I did 2 givers weapons then I need 18 stacks and I hate farming coyote’s just for stacks. I never put them on 2h weapons
What I said about confusion not being worth it was not because is does no damage, the problem with it is that sucks a little bit when you want to be it as your main source of damage. With the non-sense confusion nerf, they killed a whole way to go for mesmers. In the other hand, it’s a very good second damage option, as people tent to forget about it.
The main problem with this rune is that there’re other options to reach +100% full condition duration, so you’ll have the same effect as this one, plus having double torment, bleeds from sharper images and fire from staff and torch.
The only thing that saves this rune is the interrupt fact. But in a game where skills have very low/non cast time, interrupt scene is very little.
If you’re getting 100% condi duration you’re doing it wrong.
You’re giving up tons and i mean tons of condi to get 100% duration. Unless you’re fighting the biggest idiots ever you’re better off having more condi power.
No idea why you would try to get 100% duration except for PVE in which case why are you running condi at all for PVE?
I’m just sitting here laughing at people giving up 179 condi for 10% duration. Not to mention the almost 200 condi you get from a 5/6 rune set.
http://tinyurl.com/myokqlm
100% duration and 1228 condition damage: Torment – 6234, Burning – 3810, 6s confusion with iMage and F2,10s confusion with Confusing Images and 10s bleeds with Sharper Images.
http://tinyurl.com/k8nhwv5
60% duration and 1875 condition damage: Torment – 6131, Burning – 3187, 4,75s confusion with iMage and F2, 8s confusion with Confusing Images, and no bleeds from Sharper Images to reach that amount of condition damage and equal the numbers.
http://tinyurl.com/m4c2t7s
60% condition duration and 1753 condition damage with points in duel for sharper images: Torment – 5857, Burning – 3065, 4,75s confusion with iMage and F2, 8s confusion with Confusing Images, and 8s of bleeds from sharper images.
First, I don’t see that super OMFG lost of condition damage.
Second, no thanks for that facepalm…
Personally, i find both this and Tormenting to be rather poor choices for Mesmers. we have ONE method of afflicting Torment and its on a poor skill to make it worth while most of the time, has issues with range (doesnt seem to proc on those at range) and the actual skill itself is just Meh.
Think this would be better for classes that have a more reliable access to both conditions.
What I said about confusion not being worth it was not because is does no damage, the problem with it is that sucks a little bit when you want to be it as your main source of damage. With the non-sense confusion nerf, they killed a whole way to go for mesmers. In the other hand, it’s a very good second damage option, as people tent to forget about it.
The main problem with this rune is that there’re other options to reach +100% full condition duration, so you’ll have the same effect as this one, plus having double torment, bleeds from sharper images and fire from staff and torch.
The only thing that saves this rune is the interrupt fact. But in a game where skills have very low/non cast time, interrupt scene is very little.
If you’re getting 100% condi duration you’re doing it wrong.
You’re giving up tons and i mean tons of condi to get 100% duration. Unless you’re fighting the biggest idiots ever you’re better off having more condi power.
No idea why you would try to get 100% duration except for PVE in which case why are you running condi at all for PVE?
I’m just sitting here laughing at people giving up 179 condi for 10% duration. Not to mention the almost 200 condi you get from a 5/6 rune set.
http://tinyurl.com/myokqlm
100% duration and 1228 condition damage: Torment – 6234, Burning – 3810, 6s confusion with iMage and F2,10s confusion with Confusing Images and 10s bleeds with Sharper Images.
http://tinyurl.com/k8nhwv5
60% duration and 1875 condition damage: Torment – 6131, Burning – 3187, 4,75s confusion with iMage and F2, 8s confusion with Confusing Images, and no bleeds from Sharper Images to reach that amount of condition damage and equal the numbers.
http://tinyurl.com/m4c2t7s
60% condition duration and 1753 condition damage with points in duel for sharper images: Torment – 5857, Burning – 3065, 4,75s confusion with iMage and F2, 8s confusion with Confusing Images, and 8s of bleeds from sharper images.
First, I don’t see that super OMFG lost of condition damage.
Second, no thanks for that facepalm…
Like I said that 100% condition duration build is a joke. 1200 condi damage? Um, lol.
I like the way you use examples with 60% duration………to prove how 100% is stretching way too far.
My comments were in reference to 100% duration. 100% duration is what your post was referencing. Yes, there are lots of specs that can get 20%-60% fairly easily.
100% is way way too much duration and a waste.
PS, all those builds suck for actual confusion application which is best done with a shatter mesmer. If scepter is your only source of confusion then that’s hardly worth using runes of perplexity around.
Runes of perplexity are obviously for shatter confusion builds.
“4) 20% chance to cause confusion on hit (15 second cooldown)”
Seeing as this is when YOU hit something (when its fixed that is) I wonder if you could be a Phantasm build around that changing 5 and 6 runes for something else. Think 6/6 could have been improved On Interruption isn’t the best i think. I think it would have been better if the Torment on the Tormenting one was based on an attack rather then a AoE after a heal.
Has anyone tested the torment runeset? There is no stated ICD on the 6slot bonus, so I’d love to know what it really is.
Dont think it would really matter, having it tied to a Heal kind of makes it worthless in my opinion. 2 Stacks isnt that great and even worse when its tied to a Healing skill. I think it would have made more sense to make it so that the Confusion one is based on healing yourself and the Torment is when you damage someone.
Has anyone tested the torment runeset? There is no stated ICD on the 6slot bonus, so I’d love to know what it really is.
Dont think it would really matter, having it tied to a Heal kind of makes it worthless in my opinion. 2 Stacks isnt that great and even worse when its tied to a Healing skill. I think it would have made more sense to make it so that the Confusion one is based on healing yourself and the Torment is when you damage someone.
Has anyone tested the torment runeset? There is no stated ICD on the 6slot bonus, so I’d love to know what it really is.
Dont think it would really matter, having it tied to a Heal kind of makes it worthless in my opinion. 2 Stacks isnt that great and even worse when its tied to a Healing skill. I think it would have made more sense to make it so that the Confusion one is based on healing yourself and the Torment is when you damage someone.
One word: Mantra
Meh, the Mantra heal is pretty rubbish though. The Heal is tiny unless you take healing stats its like 2,500 per a cast, unless you take the extra cast on mantra trait i dont think it would be worthwhile for 2stacks of torment.
Has anyone tested the torment runeset? There is no stated ICD on the 6slot bonus, so I’d love to know what it really is.
Dont think it would really matter, having it tied to a Heal kind of makes it worthless in my opinion. 2 Stacks isnt that great and even worse when its tied to a Healing skill. I think it would have made more sense to make it so that the Confusion one is based on healing yourself and the Torment is when you damage someone.
One word: Mantra
Meh, the Mantra heal is pretty rubbish though. The Heal is tiny unless you take healing stats its like 2,500 per a cast, unless you take the extra cast on mantra trait i dont think it would be worthwhile for 2stacks of torment.
You’re completely wrong about that. I don’t really feel like digging up the analysis now, but the numbers have been crunched before.
Has anyone tested the torment runeset? There is no stated ICD on the 6slot bonus, so I’d love to know what it really is.
Dont think it would really matter, having it tied to a Heal kind of makes it worthless in my opinion. 2 Stacks isnt that great and even worse when its tied to a Healing skill. I think it would have made more sense to make it so that the Confusion one is based on healing yourself and the Torment is when you damage someone.
One word: Mantra
Meh, the Mantra heal is pretty rubbish though. The Heal is tiny unless you take healing stats its like 2,500 per a cast, unless you take the extra cast on mantra trait i dont think it would be worthwhile for 2stacks of torment.
You’re completely wrong about that. I don’t really feel like digging up the analysis now, but the numbers have been crunched before.
Time will tell, i still think it should have been Torment on hit, could have even made it on crit and AoE confusion on heal – it just seems to make more sense as Confusion is more of a defensive condition well it would if it did decent/good damage as punishment for them hitting/using skills
Even if the mantra heal is slightly less, the fact that you could possibly get some torment on heal sounds wonderful in zerg combat. No ICD + extra mantra casts would be very potent application of torment… that alone could just about double mesmer condition builds dps.
Pyro, if there is no ICD for it yet, I’d say expect one to be slapped on very soon.
Edit: Also, according to game release notes, “Runes of Perplexity now correctly apply confusion to the enemy target instead of the player.”
-1-800-GUILD-WAR? They can’t have my ’Brand… I have special eyes.
-Look, look with your special eyes!
-My Dragonbrand!
So how are you guys liking the new rune if you happen to have it?
I didn’t get to actually roam with it much yesterday just did 2 1v1’s was able to keep 5+ confusion stacks pretty much the entire duration of the fight. I changed my normal build a bit to 20/20/25/0/5 to get confusion on shatters, though 25 in dueling might be good also have to retest if that confusion is affected by duration I can’t remember right now.
