Guild Wars 2

Well, back to Veil/Portal bot for Mesmer in WvW raids…Though I myself only really roam on my Mes, but I do feel for the people who spent tons of time and gold to get/craft all the gear to run a proper boonshare build. This will definitely knock down the egos of some bad guilds out there using rev/mes to make themselves look good or better than they are. And maybe help focus/gank/pick groups and smaller guilds take out larger Zergs that were getting carried hard by boonshare. The good guilds that were using this should still do fine or as well as before. Guess time will tell like every balance patch..

Zintrothen.1056:

UnknownFreak.2805:

Edit: Also, it now copies 1 stack of might instead of the entire stack, or have it always been like that?

I noticed this too. Can someone confirm exactly how it used to work for might? Right now, it just copies 20+ seconds of one stack of might. SO MUCH MIGHT!!!!

It used to share up to 25stacks might with the duration you have on yourself. Right now it only shares ONE stack of might … it’s horrible …

So, If I am understanding this correctly, Mesmer is now a portal, moa, quickness bot in meta pvp and raids?

Soothsayer.9206:

So, If I am understanding this correctly, Mesmer is now a portal, moa quickness bot in meta pvp and raids?

Well, portal and moa require clever usage in PvP. I don’t think a bot can handle that yet.

Fay.2357:

100% boon duration, using mimic and well of action.

CS ->shield 5, mimic SoI, well of action, SoI, CS end

This applies 5 stacks of quickness with a total duration of 21 seconds. Illusionary inspiration isn’t here because that’ll proc before you get into CS for at least the first time. The shield 5 stacks last 3 seconds each, so they’re shorter than the rest. The first shield 5 stack will wear off by the end of CS, and the second stack will simply get pushed out later in the combo. For this reason, I’ve not counted that second stack in the total duration.

Well of Action, mimic SoI, SoI

This applies 3 more stacks of quickness with a total duration of 18 seconds. By the time you execute this, the first shield 5 stack will have worn off and well of action will replace it. The first mimic will replace the low duration 3s stack from the return of shield 5. However, this puts us back at 5 stacks. Therefor, it’s imperative that the 2nd usage of SoI is delayed by at least 6 seconds from the time you first used mimic SoI inside of CS. This will likely already be the case, but it’s something to be aware of.

Ok, so that’s the initial combo. With a bit of timing precision, we’ve applied 39 total seconds of quickness. Now, we fast-forward 24 seconds to the next combo split. 24 seconds will consume 4 of your quickness stacks, leaving you with 1 when you star the combo.

Shield 5, SoI trait, SoI, well of action

This combo applies 5 more stacks of quickness with a total duration of 24 seconds. Since the previous last stack should fall off during this combo, all 5 of these stacks should apply unhindered. This brings us up to a total quickness duration of 63 seconds.

This total rotation is on a 57.5 second cooldown. This provides permanent quickness to a 5 man group. In order to buffer this up a bit, you can drop time warp inside the CS rotation. This will mostly be overwritten by the longer 6 second stacks, but it will fill up the gaps a bit and extend the overall duration slightly.

Great. As if the skill floor to even be considered for a raid squad as a chronomancer wasn’t high enough already. Its almost as if ANet doesn’t want people who aren’t perfect at playing mesmer to raid with this class

Xyonon.3987:

Zintrothen.1056:

UnknownFreak.2805:

Edit: Also, it now copies 1 stack of might instead of the entire stack, or have it always been like that?

I noticed this too. Can someone confirm exactly how it used to work for might? Right now, it just copies 20+ seconds of one stack of might. SO MUCH MIGHT!!!!

It used to share up to 25stacks might with the duration you have on yourself. Right now it only shares ONE stack of might … it’s horrible …

Rip condi war

I don’t feel that this rotation will significantly more difficult to pull off than the old rotation. It’ll be a little tighter, but that’s not a huge deal overall.

The real stinker of this update is how it affects the groups themselves. My raid group is strong and mature. We’re able to swap to a mirror comp without any difficulties thanks to our experience in the raids and the competence of the players. We’ll still see a small dps loss from this change (as will everyone), but that won’t be a problem for clearing fights.

Now consider a much weaker and newer group. Not only are they only clearing some bosses by the skin of their teeth, they’re also less comfortable swapping classes, so maybe the won’t be able to transition smoothly into a mirror comp. This group will suffer significant dps losses because of this update, and all of a sudden they’ll be failing at bosses they once completed. They’ve been effectively set back months of practice all because Anet didn’t properly consider the ramifications of this change.

OriOri.8724:

musu.9205:

last time they try to buff thief to get it a slot in raid . its 30% AA damage buff

GOOD LUCK ON THAT 6% DAMAGE INCREASE .

This. I appreciate the effort, but this isn’t exactly the damage buff we needed, it only affects sword anyway.

Still, overall the patch is better than I expected it to be.

How in the world is this “better than [you] expected it to be??” What horrid nerfs were you expecting that this is somehow better??

Xyonon.3987:

Zintrothen.1056:

UnknownFreak.2805:

Edit: Also, it now copies 1 stack of might instead of the entire stack, or have it always been like that?

I noticed this too. Can someone confirm exactly how it used to work for might? Right now, it just copies 20+ seconds of one stack of might. SO MUCH MIGHT!!!!

It used to share up to 25stacks might with the duration you have on yourself. Right now it only shares ONE stack of might … it’s horrible …

I have to wonder if this was an intended change or an oversight. I can see this being 100% intended knowing Anet.

Insofar as WvW groups go, the comp and strategy that I run with in my group appears to still be intact. It has been impacted both positively and negatively in some ways by this change, but we should still be capable of nearly permanent uptime of most boons. I’m still working on a detailed guide/video guide for it, so I’ll refrain from stating it explicitly until I’m more confident about my explanation. Suffice to say I don’t use veil though.

Fay.2357:

I don’t feel that this rotation will significantly more difficult to pull off than the old rotation. It’ll be a little tighter, but that’s not a huge deal overall.

…

Now consider a much weaker and newer group. Not only are they only clearing some bosses by the skin of their teeth, they’re also less comfortable swapping classes, so maybe the won’t be able to transition smoothly into a mirror comp. This group will suffer significant dps losses because of this update, and all of a sudden they’ll be failing at bosses they once completed. They’ve been effectively set back months of practice all because Anet didn’t properly consider the ramifications of this change.

Typical ANet balancing, in other words. The top tier keeps on trucking, everybody else gets shafted.

I mean, I hate the whole concept of “hardcore” instanced group PvE to begin with, so if everybody except DnT stops raiding, that’s no skin off my back. But there are definitely people other than me who are going to be justifiably kittened off about that.

Zoe.8310:

OriOri.8724:

musu.9205:

last time they try to buff thief to get it a slot in raid . its 30% AA damage buff

GOOD LUCK ON THAT 6% DAMAGE INCREASE .

This. I appreciate the effort, but this isn’t exactly the damage buff we needed, it only affects sword anyway.

Still, overall the patch is better than I expected it to be.

How in the world is this “better than [you] expected it to be??” What horrid nerfs were you expecting that this is somehow better??

I honestly expected a nerf to our ability to generate quickness and alacrity on top of everything else, not just a nerf to our ability to share it.

SoI has 600 radius while tide of time and well of action have much smaller AOE.

It requires better coordination between mesmer and the group to get enough quickness.

OriOri.8724:

Zoe.8310:

OriOri.8724:

musu.9205:

last time they try to buff thief to get it a slot in raid . its 30% AA damage buff

GOOD LUCK ON THAT 6% DAMAGE INCREASE .

This. I appreciate the effort, but this isn’t exactly the damage buff we needed, it only affects sword anyway.

Still, overall the patch is better than I expected it to be.

How in the world is this “better than [you] expected it to be??” What horrid nerfs were you expecting that this is somehow better??

I honestly expected a nerf to our ability to generate quickness and alacrity on top of everything else, not just a nerf to our ability to share it.

Given that they already massively nerfed alacrity, any more changes to it would just be deleting it from the game.

They still never gave us, the Mesmer, back any compensation for the alacrity nerf. Sure, I could see them reducing what other players received, but they designed Chrono with a certain level of cooldown in mind, and never maintained that.

And, they did nerf our ability to generate quickness my cutting it’s stacks in half across the game.

Zoe.8310:

OriOri.8724:

Zoe.8310:

OriOri.8724:

musu.9205:

last time they try to buff thief to get it a slot in raid . its 30% AA damage buff

GOOD LUCK ON THAT 6% DAMAGE INCREASE .

This. I appreciate the effort, but this isn’t exactly the damage buff we needed, it only affects sword anyway.

Still, overall the patch is better than I expected it to be.

How in the world is this “better than [you] expected it to be??” What horrid nerfs were you expecting that this is somehow better??

I honestly expected a nerf to our ability to generate quickness and alacrity on top of everything else, not just a nerf to our ability to share it.

Given that they already massively nerfed alacrity, any more changes to it would just be deleting it from the game.

They still never gave us, the Mesmer, back any compensation for the alacrity nerf. Sure, I could see them reducing what other players received, but they designed Chrono with a certain level of cooldown in mind, and never maintained that.

And, they did nerf our ability to generate quickness my cutting it’s stacks in half across the game.

I didn’t say that nerfing alacrity would be a good move, but based on the past few balance changes I would not have been surprised if it had also been nerfed. They seem to enjoy nerfing us across the board for overperforming in small, niche scenarios. Which is stupid, so it wasn’t that far out there to be expecting another nerf like that.

And no, our ability to generate quickness is the same as ever. None of our sources of quickness were nerfed, in fact we technically got another one. Its just much harder to maintain it and share it now, but the generation is the same

Posted this in the wrong thread.

One little thing, can we get a Boon duration gear set without toughness please? Like Power Prec/fero concentration 4 stat.

The questions people will really want to have answered are:

What amount of boon duration will we need, 100%?

What gear (stats, runes and sigils) will I need?

What comp will become “meta”?

What is the rotation?

apharma.3741:

The questions people will really want to have answered are:

What amount of boon duration will we need, 100%?

What gear (stats, runes and sigils) will I need?

What comp will become “meta”?

What is the rotation?

Boon duration: 100%

Gear: Whatever you want as long as it reaches 100% boon duration.

Comp: Mirror comp mes/ps warr/druid/2x dps

Rotation: See my earlier post.

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

The questions people will really want to have answered are:

What amount of boon duration will we need, 100%?

What gear (stats, runes and sigils) will I need?

What comp will become “meta”?

What is the rotation?

Boon duration: 100%

Gear: Whatever you want as long as it reaches 100% boon duration.

Comp: Mirror comp mes/ps warr/druid/2x dps

Rotation: See my earlier post.

So do we or don’t we need chrono runes anymore? If not then getting to 100% isn’t going to be too bad as there’s some decent options out there which aren’t stupid expensive. If you need chrono runes then you need to go nearly full commanders.

apharma.3741:

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

The questions people will really want to have answered are:

What amount of boon duration will we need, 100%?

What gear (stats, runes and sigils) will I need?

What comp will become “meta”?

What is the rotation?

Boon duration: 100%

Gear: Whatever you want as long as it reaches 100% boon duration.

Comp: Mirror comp mes/ps warr/druid/2x dps

Rotation: See my earlier post.

So do we or don’t we need chrono runes anymore? If not then getting to 100% isn’t going to be too bad as there’s some decent options out there which aren’t stupid expensive. If you need chrono runes then you need to go nearly full commanders.

What exactly do you think chrono runes are going to provide anymore? They’re 1s of personal quickness that we can’t share. Why on earth would they be useful?

apharma.3741:

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

The questions people will really want to have answered are:

What amount of boon duration will we need, 100%?

What gear (stats, runes and sigils) will I need?

What comp will become “meta”?

What is the rotation?

Boon duration: 100%

Gear: Whatever you want as long as it reaches 100% boon duration.

Comp: Mirror comp mes/ps warr/druid/2x dps

Rotation: See my earlier post.

So do we or don’t we need chrono runes anymore? If not then getting to 100% isn’t going to be too bad as there’s some decent options out there which aren’t stupid expensive. If you need chrono runes then you need to go nearly full commanders.

I don’t raid (and now likely will never raid as a chrono), but I imagine that chrono runes will be largely useless due to quickness now only stacking up to 5 times instead of 9.

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

The questions people will really want to have answered are:

What amount of boon duration will we need, 100%?

What gear (stats, runes and sigils) will I need?

What comp will become “meta”?

What is the rotation?

Boon duration: 100%

Gear: Whatever you want as long as it reaches 100% boon duration.

Comp: Mirror comp mes/ps warr/druid/2x dps

Rotation: See my earlier post.

So do we or don’t we need chrono runes anymore? If not then getting to 100% isn’t going to be too bad as there’s some decent options out there which aren’t stupid expensive. If you need chrono runes then you need to go nearly full commanders.

What exactly do you think chrono runes are going to provide anymore? They’re 1s of personal quickness that we can’t share. Why on earth would they be useful?

I forgot about the SoI applying the stacks back on you, stack size etc in the math so yeah bit of a daft question now I look at it. Think I’ll just head off to bed now as it’s well past midnight for me and I’m clearly too tired. Thanks for the replies.

Something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAsensICFohlfC+pBEgilnjq+PT0F9sACgEDdx+gHD-TRCFQBtb/B8p+CCVeVIVIg2JAoiKBRiSE0pHAAPAASB41UL-e

100% boon duration.

Then the tank Mesmer swapping Leadership runes and Air sigil to durability/doubloon and get:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAsensICFohlfC+pBEgilnj6sACgEr+PT0FFdx+gHD-ThB5wAoU/hz+DY0DUUJIgXAAOlfkCwrpWA-e

Just tossing out ideas. Again, IMO we need a few new stat sets thanks to this change (though they would be good either way). Something like Marauders but with Concentration instead of Vitality (Power/Prec + Fero/Concentration) and for Condi Druid builds a condi ’Zealot" type option something like Condi Damage/Precision+Expertise/Healing Power, or flip flop precision and healing power even.

Anyways, think my Zerk + Chrono rune set is going to my Necro for a WvW build. Might work out nicely, if not I’ll swap the runes out.

I’ve been playing with the Golem for a very long time today and there is absolutely no need for any commander gear whatsoever. In fact, it’s more important than ever to not use commander gear and optimize your DpS as Chrono, now that there are two of us in each party.

After trying various builds and combinations of traitlines and utilities,I came to the conclusion that – while Inspiration became an absolute must – you can still swap Illusions (yes Illusions is not mandatory) and Domination freely, weither you need more Alacrity or personal dps / invuln share.

So what I came up with over these few hours is this build I’m probably gonna use in Raids from now on:

>> CLICK ME <<

If you struggle to keep up your personal Alacrity for some reason, you can swap Calamity to Recall. If you still lack Alacrity, you should probably play Warrior again. :P

Thoughts and inputs, or issues I might have overlooked?

Greez!

Xyonon.3987:

I’ve been playing with the Golem for a very long time today and there is absolutely no need for any commander gear whatsoever. In fact, it’s more important than ever to not use commander gear and optimize your DpS as Chrono, now that there are two of us in each party.

---

After trying various builds and combinations of traitlines and utilities,I came to the conclusion that – while Inspiration became an absolute must – you can still swap Illusions (yes Illusions is not mandatory) and Domination freely, weither you need more Alacrity or personal dps / invuln share.

So what I came up with over these few hours is this build I’m probably gonna use in Raids from now on:

>> CLICK ME <<

If you struggle to keep up your personal Alacrity for some reason, you can swap Calamity to Recall. If you still lack Alacrity, you should probably play Warrior again. :P

---

Thoughts and inputs, or issues I might have overlooked?

Greez!

Well, one thing you’ve overlooked is that bountiful utility food is prohibitively expensive, so I’d recommend getting a bit more boon duration from a few pieces of commanders to avoid needing that.

One thing that full commander’s will allow is that you can ditch the sigil of concentration and still be at 94% duration if you slip a doubloon in somewhere. While the rotation is possible to pull off with constant weapon swapping, it’s going to be extremely difficult to do that WHILE tanking, especially vs something like xera where mitigation is very important.

Just to get this straight, since SoI only transfer one stack now does it prioritise the latest stack or highest duration stack? Or just completely random?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Just to get this straight, since SoI only transfer one stack now does it prioritise the latest stack or highest duration stack? Or just completely random?

It doesn’t transfer at all. It just applies a stack of a set duration.

Xyonon.3987:

I’ve been playing with the Golem for a very long time today and there is absolutely no need for any commander gear whatsoever. In fact, it’s more important than ever to not use commander gear and optimize your DpS as Chrono, now that there are two of us in each party.

---

After trying various builds and combinations of traitlines and utilities,I came to the conclusion that – while Inspiration became an absolute must – you can still swap Illusions (yes Illusions is not mandatory) and Domination freely, weither you need more Alacrity or personal dps / invuln share.

So what I came up with over these few hours is this build I’m probably gonna use in Raids from now on:

>> CLICK ME <<

If you struggle to keep up your personal Alacrity for some reason, you can swap Calamity to Recall. If you still lack Alacrity, you should probably play Warrior again. :P

---

Thoughts and inputs, or issues I might have overlooked?

Greez!

Haven’t had much time to do much math myself but I think you’re missing 3 important things:
Shield five hits 10 people. This is important for double chrono since they both cover 20+% quickness. This means each chrono only needs to shoot for 80% uptime on their 5 people.
Guardian shout gives quickness
Tempest trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
This extends ALL boons by 2 seconds. Passive trait from 2 DPS eles. They lose heal on aura. Who cares. It also gives 4 seconds of protection. SoI that for perma-prot.

So with 2 DPS eles that’s 8 seconds of protection and 4 seconds improved of all other boons with zero DPS loss to the tempests.

I personally figured Domination is better DPS than inspiration and shorter CD on SoI. No need for Mimic like Fay’s rotation. Furthermore there is the fact that there are 2 chronos. Only 1 needs to be the bunker and have focus pull. So the other chrono should go sword + shield/sword and SotE for better DPS and WoR for more alacrity instead of WoC. I think you hit a much closer spot for what will be meta compared to fay’s rotation. Your rotation also doesn’t get screwed if you need feedback.

Edit: Dom/Inspiration will of course be necessary for distortion share when required but I’m not convinced you need mimic either here. The double SOI, shields, allies and TW likely means you don’t need wells at all.

To show how easy it is to get 100% quickness up time while assuming 100% boon duration and perma alacrity. Domination/Illusions/Chrono for traited Signet and shatter CD reduction as well as DPS traits. Assume you spend 1/2 a second in F5 to just cast TW and nothing else:
TW=38% up time on quickness
SoI (traited) 33% up time on quickness
Tides of time: (not even double catching) 27% up time on quickness to 10 people.

So 38+33+27 = 98% without even really trying. Keep in mind that 27% up time is to 10 people and again, nothing but TW during CS. So double chrono tossing shields (not using F5 to double catch) is 54% quickness up time alone. This is not a hard rotation.

A “bunker chrono” that has 3 avengers up with PH since we have illusions traited = 32% x3 or 96% alacrity up time on 5 people.

The “DPS chrono” has 1 avenger for 32% alacrity up time and 2 swordsman. Wells of Recall and calamity are brought for another 40% alacrity up time before factoring in F5. With F5 it’s ~90% up time on 5 people and 100% on the chrono.

Basically the bunker chrono has zero reason to bring any wells at all. There is also overkill up time on quickness before even factoring in the Tempest passive trait or the Guard shout. These two facts combined is very liberating for Raid chrono the more I think about it. If rune of leadership isn’t needed, DPS runes such as scholar come back into the picture. Alternatively drop Sigil of concentration. Bring Sword and scepter or staff for a better DPS rotation.
————————————————————————————
Let’s talk Domination/Inspiration/Chrono:
TW is the only skill cast in F5: 32% up time
Shield 5 (no double catch or F5): 27% up time
Assume the trait procs once every 30 second: 20%
SoI is cast every 18 seconds: 33%
That’s plenty enough while forgetting that a 2nd chrono is giving another 27%.

Equip zealot/clerics gear. Get 3 avengers up with SotE. Equip rune of the monk for 15% boon duration and 10% outgoing heals. Spam MoP. You are now the tank and healer and providing perma quickness and alacrity. AND you still have a free utility spot.

Let’s go further from what people are currently thinking.
——————————————————————————
Condi boon share: Dueling, Chaos, Chrono: Might, fury, quickness, swiftness, regen, protection for 18% boon and condi duration. Sigil of concentration to bring that up to 51%. The other chrono already covers 27+% quickness up time with shield 5. Don’t need to get 100% on this one. 100% bleed duration.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAre7ansICtfiFoBmfCUrhlVjqsDGhAo+Yj2p1sEWueC-TxhHAB+p+j+PBAy1PAwJBQPlgCp8Dk9HIFwiKrA-e
I’m sure someone could optimize this more since I only took 5 minutes coming up with that.

TLDR: WTF kind of crazy mimic/WoA rotations are people trying to make if they are assuming 2 chronos? It is so easy to get 100% quickness and alacrity without even touching wells or hitting 100% boon duration. (and also not including non-chrono teammates buffing quickness)

So something you’re completely neglecting is the new 5-stack cap. Using time warp will actually make it incredibly difficult to stack quickness properly. You have to actually walk step by step through the rotation and make sure that you don’t overcap the quickness. If you hit an overcap, the skill will COMPLETELY FAIL TO APPLY QUICKNESS.

I did test that, thank you for noting that Xyonon.

I said nothing but time warp during F5. Since it’s 1 pulse per second and only 2 seconds long, TW should only ever apply 2 stacks. Shield 5 applies two stacks (again NOT double casting with F5) and SoI (also not double casting with F5) is 1 stack. That’s 5.

Granted the double chrono overlap with shield 5 can cause issues but that just means the chronos need to stagger better.

DPS chrono can Shield 5, SoI and then summon DPS phantasms before using F5, TW and WoR.

Bunker Chrono immediately uses F5/TW and then summons 3 shield 4 phantasms (SotE) before using Shield 5 and SoI.

Edit: I also need to test but don’t have the ppl right now. Does SoI still hit 5 other people on top of buffing the Chrono?

Also need to test:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Squall
It increases current boon duration by 2 seconds. Does this count as a stack?

Sorry but switching to cast sand squall will be a DPS loss to the ele most of the time in D/Wh set ups. They’ve changed the cool down on burning speed so when traited it will always be off cool down after an air overload.

The auto cast should be fine but you won’t get 2 from a tempest just thought I’d let you know.

Fay.2357:

So something you’re completely neglecting is the new 5-stack cap. Using time warp will actually make it incredibly difficult to stack quickness properly. You have to actually walk step by step through the rotation and make sure that you don’t overcap the quickness. If you hit an overcap, the skill will COMPLETELY FAIL TO APPLY QUICKNESS.

I did test that, thank you for noting that Xyonon.

Is this intended behavior or an oversight? Because it would make more sense to overwrite the oldest stack first instead of just completely ignoring new stacks of quickness………

@DuckDuckBOOM – I trust your math and am too lazy to do my own. If using TW is feasible, and due to the new 5 stack cap on quickness, does it effectively grant the chrono some reprieve in their rotation since doing anything more than shield 5 during TW will just waste stacks of quickness?

Apharama: double chrono means perma alacrity and there for likely double ele (or scepter/torch guard and other condi class). No need for the eles to swap to earth. I just assumed two passives per group or guard shouts. It’s not major, just meant to cover flaws and put less stress on the chrono.

@ori. I haven’t spent the gold and ds tokens on runes yet so it’s still hypothetical but looks really easy and practical for a rotation. Also not sure the runes are necessary but that’s going to take longer to decide where to drop boon duration from first.

Fay.2357:

While the rotation is possible to pull off with constant weapon swapping, it’s going to be extremely difficult to do that WHILE tanking, especially vs something like xera where mitigation is very important.

Wat … ? Why would it be “extremly difficult” to do so? o.O I really have a hard time answering to that statement, since it sounds rather absurd to me.

Don’t tell me that now “weapon swap” became unrealisticly hard to pull of all of the sudden. You just follow the rotation as usual. Everywhere but VG and Xera, you basicly don’t have to do anything to survive. For VG it’s all about dodges wich are not interfering with the rotation at all. And for Xera, either you use your 2nd instance of shield #4, or you use sword #2 or – oh magic – you simply dodge backwards, wait 1.5s, and dodge forward again and you have completly negated the blurred frenzy damage.

Concentration being unrealistic or too hard to pull of while tanking is an issue for new players at most. But for any decent Chrono player that’s basics.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Shield five hits 10 people. This is important for double chrono since they both cover 20+% quickness. This means each chrono only needs to shoot for 80% uptime on their 5 people.

In theory it is able to hit 10 ppl, but realisticly it hits between 5 and 10. The moving aoe can only buff 5 ppl at one time. If everyone stacks at the exact same spot, you only buff 5 ppl. Tested this after the release of HoT with my guild, tell me if I’m wrong tough.

I would also prefer not living on the edge. Means imo it’s better to grant your allies a bit too much Quickness, so if one happens to not be hit by let’s say WoA or ToT, they aren’t just screwed. Then there are mechanics like Matthias sacrifice, Sabetha cannons, Vale Guardian green f… wait … no those are gone now – but you know what I mean. :P

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Guardian shout gives quickness

I’d rather not use any Guardians in Raids. They are a too big dps loss over the alternatives with only 25-26k dps against small hitboxes. Against large we don’t have to argue about Ele.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Tempest trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
This extends ALL boons by 2 seconds. Passive trait from 2 DPS eles. They lose heal on aura. Who cares. It also gives 4 seconds of protection. SoI that for perma-prot.

So with 2 DPS eles that’s 8 seconds of protection and 4 seconds improved of all other boons with zero DPS loss to the tempests.

THIS is an idea I had pre patch aswell while updating our guild builds, but it just wasn’t necessary back then.

I just aks myself if it may be interfering with the 5 stacks cap. Is it really “extending” the current buffs or is it adding a 2s buff to what you’ve got. If it’s extending, I’ll definitly make all our eles to use this in our speedruns.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

I personally figured Domination is better DPS than inspiration and shorter CD on SoI. No need for Mimic like Fay’s rotation. Furthermore there is the fact that there are 2 chronos. Only 1 needs to be the bunker and have focus pull. So the other chrono should go sword + shield/sword and SotE for better DPS and WoR for more alacrity instead of WoC. I think you hit a much closer spot for what will be meta compared to fay’s rotation. Your rotation also doesn’t get screwed if you need feedback.

Domination obviously is better personal DpS than Inspiration. But I noticed a rather close rotation with Domination and Illusions without Mimic:

CS: TW, ToT, SoI, WoA = ~24-26s
ToT, SoI, WoA = 17.5s (no concentration on first shield 5 instance)
ToT, Soi, WoA = 18s
repeat

That’s a total of 59.5-61.5s quickness while the whole rotation requires 62-63.5s. Sounds like only a few seconds on paper but as mentioned before – I’d rather not be living on the edge, especially with ingame mechanics displacing ppl. SoI with it’s 600 range is a rather save quickness applier. But WoA and ToT can easily be missed.

The question would be if only like 4s of quickness others are lacking can be made up by +15% personal dps from domination. Well definitly not. But maybe it’s not even a big issue with Ele’s using Imbued Melodies.

Thoughts?

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Equip zealot/clerics gear. Get 3 avengers up with SotE. Equip rune of the monk for 15% boon duration and 10% outgoing heals. Spam MoP. You are now the tank and healer and providing perma quickness and alacrity. AND you still have a free utility spot.

HEY! That’s my trademarked Heal-O-Mancer! >:( I first invented it right after HoT release:

Heavily outdated, don’t look at it! I was young and needed the attention! :<

I’ve been optimizing the build and we’ve been using THIS when we required heal, so the Druids could still stick to condi (less of a dps loss).

But now things changed and I’m with you on this one, this might even become one of the best builds now:

Double Chrono is meta, Chronomancer runes are no longer required, Heal-O-Mancer heals WAY better than offensive Druids and letting the Chrono heal is the smallest dps loss you can get. A Druid going from Condi to Zealot or Magi is a dps loss of ~15k. Same goes for Tempest. But Chrono, oh boy.

I’m gonna change it to something like THIS. Any thoughts on improvment?

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

@ori. I haven’t spent the gold and ds tokens on runes yet so it’s still hypothetical but looks really easy and practical for a rotation. Also not sure the runes are necessary but that’s going to take longer to decide where to drop boon duration from first.

You think five of THOSE and one Platinum Doubloon might be enough? They are only 19% boon duration, but with better stats.

Xyonon.3987:

I’m gonna change it to something like THIS. Any thoughts on improvment?

Yeah, slot Restorative Mantras. :b, couldn’t resist.

Jerus.4350:

Xyonon.3987:

I’m gonna change it to something like THIS. Any thoughts on improvment?

Yeah, slot Restorative Mantras. :b, couldn’t resist.

:| Let’s not talk about this anymore in the future please xD thanks, edited :P

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Apharama: double chrono means perma alacrity and there for likely double ele (or scepter/torch guard and other condi class). No need for the eles to swap to earth. I just assumed two passives per group or guard shouts. It’s not major, just meant to cover flaws and put less stress on the chrono.

@ori. I haven’t spent the gold and ds tokens on runes yet so it’s still hypothetical but looks really easy and practical for a rotation. Also not sure the runes are necessary but that’s going to take longer to decide where to drop boon duration from first.

Fair enough but I would only assume 1 sand squall if doing calculations as there are a few instances where double ele per 5 man group isn’t great or people just don’t want to switch for 1 fight and then go back to whatever they were using instead of ele, probably necros.

Primary Xera will be a huge pain to keep concentration up while tanking, since it’s so easy to get dumpstered by her frenzy if you don’t have a mitigation skill available. I usually swap between BF and shield blocks, but I can’t reliably do that if I’m swapping weapons all the time to maintain the concentration buff. It’s not so much an issue on other bosses though, they’re not really as intensive as Xera is.

Insofar as the quickness stacking behavior, I actually did a lot more testing, and after going through some very odd behavior I believe I’ve determined the actual mechanic. So quickness stacks up to 5 times, but at any given point in time, 1 of these stacks is “active”, meaning that it is being consumed. This stack appears to have overwrite protection, but the 4 “inactive” stacks can still be overwritten. Here’s how I tested to get this theory:

Test 1: 2 chronomancers, 4 time warps, SoI after the time warps.

4 time warps should nearly instantly cap you out at 5 stacks, but popping SoI still increased duration. Popping SoI even multiple times increased duration, but each usage only increased it by a few seconds, not a full 6.

Test 2: 1 chronomancer. Time warp, trait soi, well of action, mimic soi, soi, end cs, trait soi, well of action, mimic soi, soi.

This rotation provides 8 hits of 6s quickness in a pretty short time window. When performing this rotation rapidly, it’s very easy to see that both of the last 2 soi uses (the mimic soi and final soi) fail to apply any quickness. In fact, they don’t even refresh the little countdown-bar thing.

These are reconciled by the behavior I mentioned above. In the quad-time warp scenario, there were ample 2s stacks that could be overwritten for a smaller duration boost when using SoI. In the 2nd test however, every stack that wasn’t the active stack had a solid 6s duration. When you replace a 6s stack with another 6s stack, you’ll obviously see no change in duration. If the active stack got replaced, you would push the total duration back up to a flat 30s every time, but that didn’t happen.

Anyway, ramifications of that stacking behavior.

1. Time warp isn’t garbage. Yay! I mean, it’s still not great due to the stacking behavior, but at least it doesn’t actively inhibit you from stacking quickness.
2. You can pretty reliably avoid wasting quickness by simply checking your duration and sharing only when below 24 seconds. While this isn’t fool-proof (you can still waste the smaller shield 5 stacks and time warp stacks), it’s more than good enough to provide permanent quickness.
3. Mimic is handy, but not required. Mimic lets you get another 2×6s duration stacks every rotation, which is a larger boost than anything else really. It also lets you get another easy proc on distortion. However, it’s still possible to maintain permanent uptime on quickness without it.

I’ll probably take mimic on Wing 1 bosses, since you don’t really need anything else for them. Wing 2 obviously is going to force feedback to be prioritized over mimic, and then Wing 3 is a bit split. Mimic is totally unnecessary on KC because you really only need quickness for a solid ~20 seconds when burning statues, then another 15 seconds at burn time. It could be nice on Xera though, so I may take it there.

Yo Fay, I expirienced the same thing while casting 4 TW’s and then SoI. So if I read that correctly, you are now able to replace old stacks or let’s say shorter stacks with longer ones? Means if you have 10s Quickness from TW, wich are 5x 2s, then SoI adds 6s and removes 2s wich leaves 14s, or rather 13s since it’s only 14s for a mere moment.

I tried some more testings without neither Mimic, nor the SoI trait. It just doesn’t work, TW does not provide enough Quickness to make up for the 10s whole you’d have in the most perfect rotation. Either you favorize your own pity dps or you just have to choose between Mimic or Inspiration as a traitline, whereas Mimic is only granting you 1-2x 6s Quickness (will definitly interfere a bit with TW, great choice if you want CC via Gravity though) and SoI from Inspiration 2-3x 6s.

I doubt I will run Mimic at all in Raids. Recall or Calamity are both more important, especially due to the usage of Danger Time and TW alone is wide aswell to grant every Quickness from time to time.

W1:

Now that there are 2 Chronos, VG will become a stack festival once again, so I will just drop either WoE or WoC/R for another signet to make it very easy to avoid going to the green fields.

Gorseval and Sabby are both stack and bash aswell, so it’s easy to stay inside of the wells at any given time.

W2:

At Sloth I may go with Mimic, as there is more movement around the boss due to tremour, poison and being fixated, while Gravity also makes sense for CC. Feedback is overkill – if you have two Chronos, just pull the slubs and kill them imediately. What could be useful though is resistance on Feedback + WoE to not get interrupted with Frostbow #4 after the CC.

For trio it doesn’t really matter but my personal favourite is traiting for Illusions and Duelling + Stability mantra to neutralize those pesky tornados and the fear. There’s nothign else threatening anyway.

Matthias means Feedback and the other Chrono probably heal.

W3:

Escort really doesn’t matter at all. It would be nice to use Mantra of Recovery to cleanse conditions from allies who might run into bombs due to the fear. Then the common quickness stuff, probably with Gravity for the adds. Depends a bit on if both Chronos are down or just one.

KC is simply a stack festival again so no need for Mimic either and same goes for Xera. At Xera you could even use Precognition or Nullfield if you feel insecure.

Yeah, thats how it works. It means TW does provide a legitimate buffer instead of straight up blocking quickness application.

My testing also agrees that you absolutely can’t do 100% uptime without domination and without mimic. That shouldn’t be too much of an issue though, distortion share is just so useful that domination is really nice to have regardless.

With 2 chronos, danger time upkeep shouldn’t really be an issue. With 4 shield phants on the boss, you should have pretty close to permanent slow.

VG: Taking signet of midnight might actually be the simplest thing instead of mimic. Midnight alone will cover at least half of all green circles. It might even cover all of them with signet cooldowns traited alongside permanent alacrity.

Gorse/Sabetha: Doesn’t really matter here. With the whole group in melee range, permanent alacrity is sustained by shield phantasms, so you can essentially use whatever you want for the third utility.

Sloth: At least for my group, we usually pull quickly then stand and dps for a while, then pull quickly again, so there’s not really all that much movement while dpsing. I do love the resistance on that fight, but with 2 chronos sharing invuln for spore shake…it just shouldn’t be all that necessary.

Trio: heh.

Matthias: Both chronos should have feedback here. This way you have guaranteed easy reflects if 1 chrono gets sacrificed. You also get overlapping feedback duration on the abomination reflect phase, since the abom reflect is much more stringent on the timing.

Escort: I’ll be taking stab mantra, mimic, and portal as always. I’m just a mobile portal-producer for that fight.

KC: Stack n smack as mentioned.

Xera: Null field could be nice tbh, particularly if your team screws up avoiding orbs a lot. Precog would be worthless though, since her frenzy hits rapidly multiple times (Anet plz). I’ll probably either take mimic or recall for her.

Fay.2357:

My testing also agrees that you absolutely can’t do 100% uptime without domination and without mimic. That shouldn’t be too much of an issue though, distortion share is just so useful that domination is really nice to have regardless.

Wait… Don’t you mean without Inspiration or Mimic? I mean Inspiration + Illusions is perfectly fine.

Inspiration adds a huge amount of Quickness, Domination doesn’t.

Fay.2357:

With 2 chronos, danger time upkeep shouldn’t really be an issue. With 4 shield phants on the boss, you should have pretty close to permanent slow.

Exactly. Prepatch 3 shieldies, TW and WoA were also already enough. So I see no reason to not take this awesome trait now. It’s 276.99 free power you don’t need in form of precision! That’s HUGE.

Fay.2357:

VG: Taking signet of midnight might actually be the simplest thing instead of mimic. Midnight alone will cover at least half of all green circles. It might even cover all of them with signet cooldowns traited alongside permanent alacrity.

Yup, I also think SoM will be the best option. Besides the short cd, it’s instant and thus the easiest one aswell.

Fay.2357:

Gorse/Sabetha: Doesn’t really matter here. With the whole group in melee range, permanent alacrity is sustained by shield phantasms, so you can essentially use whatever you want for the third utility.

Absolutely.

Fay.2357:

Sloth: At least for my group, we usually pull quickly then stand and dps for a while, then pull quickly again, so there’s not really all that much movement while dpsing. I do love the resistance on that fight, but with 2 chronos sharing invuln for spore shake…it just shouldn’t be all that necessary.

Yea, you don’t even have to share the Invulnerability. It lasts anyway just 1 sec and won’t really protect your allies that much. With 2 Chronos it should be very easy to completly absorb the coconuts with invuln jumps.

Fay.2357:

Matthias: Both chronos should have feedback here. This way you have guaranteed easy reflects if 1 chrono gets sacrificed. You also get overlapping feedback duration on the abomination reflect phase, since the abom reflect is much more stringent on the timing.

Yup, definitly the option I’d take if the Druid(s) heal. But to be fair, the Druids offhand Axe is fine too for that job.

Fay.2357:

Escort: I’ll be taking stab mantra, mimic, and portal as always. I’m just a mobile portal-producer for that fight.

We started using 2 Power Scrappers to do the jop at the turrets. Get up there, push out with FT (+stability), Sneak Gyro, captured, move on. That way you have 8 ppl escorting Glenna and deal with the Wargs.

Fay.2357:

Xera: Null field could be nice tbh, particularly if your team screws up avoiding orbs a lot. Precog would be worthless though, since her frenzy hits rapidly multiple times (Anet plz). I’ll probably either take mimic or recall for her.

Would say the same about this, yea. Mimic wouldn’t be a bad choice indeed, you can then take Gravity wich isn’t too bad either.

I dont play mesmer yet, but assuming 6s each:

SoI 24s (~18 w/ Alacrity)
Traited SoI – 24s (~18 w/ Alacrity)
Well of Action – 25s (~19 w/ Alacrity)
Tides of Time – 30s (~23 w/ Alacrity)

Thats enough to get permaquickness by just spamming on cd, no? Am i missing something?

Ryn.6459:

I dont play mesmer yet, but assuming 6s each:

SoI 24s (~18 w/ Alacrity)
Traited SoI – 24s (~18 w/ Alacrity)
Well of Action – 25s (~19 w/ Alacrity)
Tides of Time – 30s (~23 w/ Alacrity)

Thats enough to get permaquickness by just spamming on cd, no? Am i missing something?

Looks right to me, seems pretty simple actually. Start fight, sword clone, weapon swap, Tides of Time, start shield Phantasm, CS before it ends and hit Well of Action inside, hit shield phantasm again once CS ends for another trait SoI, and Well of Action again, SoI a few seconds later as Tides of Time would have worn off, then just keep it all on cooldown?

I jst tried it on the pvp golem with 90% boon duration. Piece of cake. And i dont mesmer at all.

Are you guys actually accounting for the stack limit on Quickness?

They are not accounting for the stack limit and they are also assuming that Illusionary Inspiration is getting reset by CS.