Sorry but it needs to happen for the health of this game.
You still got a lot of other builds so it’ll be fine
a fellow thief agrees with the nerf for mesmers !
This is funny. (Note: I pack an 80 Mesmer and Thief)
A Thief wanting Mesmers to be nerfed, eh? What’s the matter, were ye lot a pair of stealth-kittens, and yer feeling salty now? Look, I don’t care for some of the recent crap against Thieves, myself; but that’s no reason to cheer on nerfs for another class.
Come off it … it’s not like Mesmers wanted more Revealed, either. Especially when Mesmer stealth’s nowhere near so easy to stack as Thief’s.
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
There’s the compound problem that especially Portal is already weak due to it’s long CD and very short duration (outside of WvW, at least). Sure, skill-split. But do we really want a 20s duration, 20s CD Portal in PvE compared to a 120s CD 5s lasting WvW one? Sounds… off to me.
I’d much rather have a generic Portal balance baseline, say, 15s duration, 25s CD, 5 charges. PvE gains +10s Duration and unlimited charges, WvW gives the Mesmer guaranteed passage (so 6 charges total in a way, but the Mesmer never uses up his one). sPvP can probably use the baseline.
Same for Veil, btw. Outside of zerg-charges in WvW, this feels largely useless, again owing due to the way overdone CD.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Confusion is the only counter to mindless, thoughtless, button-mashing too. It causes the players to stop and think, and play smart. It’s very, very necessary and should not be nerfed.
Sorry but it needs to happen for the health of this game.
You still got a lot of other builds so it’ll be fine
a fellow thief agrees with the nerf for mesmers !
This is funny. (Note: I pack an 80 Mesmer and Thief)
A Thief wanting Mesmers to be nerfed, eh? What’s the matter, were ye lot a pair of stealth-kittens, and yer feeling salty now? Look, I don’t care for some of the recent crap against Thieves, myself; but that’s no reason to cheer on nerfs for another class.
Come off it … it’s not like Mesmers wanted more Revealed, either. Especially when Mesmer stealth’s nowhere near so easy to stack as Thief’s.
no they want it to be nerfed, because a glamour mesmer can destroy a thief very quickly as all the thieves are used to is spamming 1111,2,2,111111111,2222,6 when they meet a glam mesmers it goes more like 2,2 ouch ouch ouch 11112,down……
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
In Tier 1, glamour confusion is hardly used, and certainly not relied on when zergs collide.
Changing something like confusion, or glamour builds is not a straight up WvW aspect. It’s in the hands of the class balance guy.
Maybe in USA
In EU t1 glamour build is everywhere…..and is uberannoying.
And its not a recent thing…..i noticed it in T1 since a good month….way before it became a fotm….
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
Not much different from Killing him.
With current damage could also be a direct stun for 10 seconds….there is not much difference…
I can’t speak for EU, but what I don’t get about the people who complain about confusion is that it’s one of the most avoidable conditions in the game, mainly because if you don’t attack IT DOES NO DAMAGE. People don’t like confusion because they don’t want to have to back off a sec and stop spamming abilities. You say stepping out of the fight is the same as death. Wha? No it’s not. I’m back in the game in two seconds. And this is also assuming I don’t have a cleanse or am not running with other players who are cleansing. Which I do. Anyone who won’t stop spamming abilities, won’t look at their condition bar, won’t run in WvW with a condition removal ability, won’t move out of AOE fields, and is so squishy that confusion can actually do damage which hurts deserves to get affected by confusion.
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies
Glamour builds are generally only good against zergs as Iruwen has just pointed out. I can stack up confusion much quicker running my cond dmg setup. I cast staff 3, staff 2, and roll (and immediate cry of frustration) when I my foe is foolish enough to jump me. This yields an instant 8 stacks (since all illusions are next to my foe). Now my foes can either A: button smash mindlessly (like a lot of guys do); B: Back off for 5-8 seconds (which is all the more most confusion lasts most of the time); C: Have one person in the party or each individual cleanse the confusion.
Now, I have seen backstab thieves hit for 8k damage fairly regularly and that takes zero setup. Even with me running full rabid gear plus undead runes and cond dmg consumables bringing my cond dmg to 1.8k, my confusion ends up doing 400-410 dmg per stack. It would take my foe to use 3 skills during the duration of my confusion to get more than that 8k.
Stop your whining and learn to play. Saying getting confusion bombed and backing out of the fight is the same as dying is such a crock. Confusion doesn’t last that long at all and waiting it out is what a smart player will do and then jump right back in the fight.
Mag (PA)
Figrin the Healer (Guard), Angelic Renae (Mes), Death by Figrin (Thief)
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies
This is so true. Mostly I manage to tag players with 2-3 stacks of confusion using glamours. This results in about 250 points of damage a tick (about 3-4 ticks) for fully geared players and about 350 for ungeared lowbies. Sometimes you get lucky and someone will run in and out of the fields a bunch of times and the numbers will be a little higher. Regardless, that ain’t killing anyone. This myth of “15 stacks of instant confusion from glamours” is just that, a myth.
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies
This is so true. Mostly I manage to tag players with 2-3 stacks of confusion using glamours. This results in about 250 points of damage a tick (about 3-4 ticks) for fully geared players and about 350 for ungeared lowbies. Sometimes you get lucky and someone will run in and out of the fields a bunch of times and the numbers will be a little higher. Regardless, that ain’t killing anyone. This myth of “15 stacks of instant confusion from glamours” is just that, a myth.
You seriously need to work on your setup and play if you are only getting them with 2-3 stacks of confusion and them doing only 250 damage per stack. I use only 2 glamour fields yet get 6-8 on a regular basis. 2 from their original cast, another 2 from them leaving the fields, plus another 2-4 when I pull them back into or even through those fields. All the while, the lowest my confusion does is 370 dmg per stack (when my consumables run out on me and I have the wrong weapon set on).
Mag (PA)
Figrin the Healer (Guard), Angelic Renae (Mes), Death by Figrin (Thief)
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies
This is so true. Mostly I manage to tag players with 2-3 stacks of confusion using glamours. This results in about 250 points of damage a tick (about 3-4 ticks) for fully geared players and about 350 for ungeared lowbies. Sometimes you get lucky and someone will run in and out of the fields a bunch of times and the numbers will be a little higher. Regardless, that ain’t killing anyone. This myth of “15 stacks of instant confusion from glamours” is just that, a myth.
You seriously need to work on your setup and play if you are only getting them with 2-3 stacks of confusion and them doing only 250 damage per stack. I use only 2 glamour fields yet get 6-8 on a regular basis. 2 from their original cast, another 2 from them leaving the fields, plus another 2-4 when I pull them back into or even through those fields. All the while, the lowest my confusion does is 370 dmg per stack (when my consumables run out on me and I have the wrong weapon set on).
Thanks for the tips. I’m still getting my trinkets, but I do need to work on pulling back into the fields. I can get higher numbers, but I was referring to what the poster was commenting on in terms of hitting people with a few glamours (not every glam all at once in a perfect set-up). I’m still skeptical though about your ability to get 8 stacks on players from range in a zerg. That seems impossible right now.
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
How do you apply an “excessive amount of confusion stacks” with glamour fields? Unless you’re constantly running through these fields (Confusing Enchantments), a mesmer can cast Feedback, Null Field and Veil (which means all utility skills, all on relatively long cooldowns), causing a blind coupled with one (!) stack of confusion (Dazzling Glamours / Blinding Befuddlement).
It takes three mesmers specced for condition damage and a glamour build casting three glamour fields at the same time in the same place to apply nine stacks of confusion, which can easily be cleansed or avoided by backing off. Check the list of ally condition removal skills: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#From_allies
This is so true. Mostly I manage to tag players with 2-3 stacks of confusion using glamours. This results in about 250 points of damage a tick (about 3-4 ticks) for fully geared players and about 350 for ungeared lowbies. Sometimes you get lucky and someone will run in and out of the fields a bunch of times and the numbers will be a little higher. Regardless, that ain’t killing anyone. This myth of “15 stacks of instant confusion from glamours” is just that, a myth.
You seriously need to work on your setup and play if you are only getting them with 2-3 stacks of confusion and them doing only 250 damage per stack. I use only 2 glamour fields yet get 6-8 on a regular basis. 2 from their original cast, another 2 from them leaving the fields, plus another 2-4 when I pull them back into or even through those fields. All the while, the lowest my confusion does is 370 dmg per stack (when my consumables run out on me and I have the wrong weapon set on).
Thanks for the tips. I’m still getting my trinkets, but I do need to work on pulling back into the fields. I can get higher numbers, but I was referring to what the poster was commenting on in terms of hitting people with a few glamours (not every glam all at once in a perfect set-up). I’m still skeptical though about your ability to get 8 stacks on players from range in a zerg. That seems impossible right now.
Usually in zergs, you are likely to have fellow glamour mesmers helping you. Yes it is much more difficult to get large stacks of confusion on a zerg as a single glamour mes, but I still will get at least 1 person with those 8 stacks. It’s pretty much a guarantee.
Mag (PA)
Figrin the Healer (Guard), Angelic Renae (Mes), Death by Figrin (Thief)
In Tier 1, glamour confusion is hardly used, and certainly not relied on when zergs collide.
Changing something like confusion, or glamour builds is not a straight up WvW aspect. It’s in the hands of the class balance guy.
Maybe in USA
In EU t1 glamour build is everywhere…..and is uberannoying.
And its not a recent thing…..i noticed it in T1 since a good month….way before it became a fotm….
Even if you are lucky and manage to leave the fight due to excessive amount of confusion stacks, then you get 1 less people in the fight with all his cleansing on CD…
Not much different from Killing him.
With current damage could also be a direct stun for 10 seconds….there is not much difference…
if you don’t attack IT DOES NO DAMAGE.
false.
More likely if you just walk it does no damage……
-Evading for most builds gives confusion damage
-healing gives confusion damage
-using boons gives confusoin damage
As i said look at it as a 10 second daze…
Is it balanced?
i think not.
Add to that the chance of using MANY ethereal fields to awfully abuse it.
You end up with the only antizerg condition actually working.
And considering you can t give a similar thing only to 1 class, its clearly OP.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
combine all those 6+++ confusion stacks with epidemic !
epic meltdown
Epic, before Epidemic was slapped with that silly AoE cap. Note, I disagree with a 5-man AoE cap on principle. If you needed a cap, why one that freaking low? It’s like: “Here, zerglets … we’re gonna hold yer wee wittle hands in a fight.” Just scale damage/effect inversely proportional to # struck. More targets, less DPS/effect.
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
One way to nerf confusion a small amount without nerfing damage would be to increase the visibility of the notification. For example, if the screen had a colored fringe around the edge when you had multiple stacks of confusion on you (maybe a user setting for how many stacks) then confusion would still be effective at slowing down ability spam without killing so many people.
Confusion just needs to be mad ea hard hitting one time proc and wear off. That way you can balance it for pve, so its benefit is always used (make it do like 4-5k on a proc, one time).
anyone saw that the dungeon boss does 4-6 attacks at the same time, just to nerf the aegis ?
well….it also procs the confusion damage 4-6 times in 1 visual attack of the boss, lol
Confusion just needs to be mad ea hard hitting one time proc and wear off. That way you can balance it for pve, so its benefit is always used (make it do like 4-5k on a proc, one time).
In wvw a one time 3k proc would be fair.
And stack duration instead? Imo that would actually be op compared to the current system where it takes 8 stacks of confusion at ~1800 condition damage to deal the same damage considering the 8 stacks wear off rather quickly, but stacking them in duration and being able to reapply it anytime would effectively take you out of combat completely.
lol even my wife who is the worst pvper in the history of mmos knows to stop pressing buttons when she sees a confustion stack. Confusion in its current state makes this game better.
no they want it to be nerfed, because a glamour mesmer can destroy a thief very quickly as all the thieves are used to is spamming 1111,2,2,111111111,2222,6 when they meet a glam mesmers it goes more like 2,2 ouch ouch ouch 11112,down……
then they might as well nerf pyros blocking phantasm build also because that hilariously wrecks thieves as well. blockblock down….
They nerfed confusion in spvp I highly doubt they will have 3 different effects for the same thing as in 1 in spvp 1 in wvw and 1 in pve. The most logical and likely thing to happen is for confusion to get 50% nerf in wvw jut like spvp.
They nerfed confusion in spvp I highly doubt they will have 3 different effects for the same thing as in 1 in spvp 1 in wvw and 1 in pve. The most logical and likely thing to happen is for confusion to get 50% nerf in wvw jut like spvp.
It absolutely doesn’t need to be nerfed in wvw. In spvp you are constantly in a small area with several foes. This means its much more likely to be stacked up on you quickly, especially since you have very limited number of foes to worry about. In wvw, you have huge areas to work with and aren’t limited to a confined space aside from going over a bridge. Even the capture points are much larger than a single mes could cover with glamour fields.
Mag (PA)
Figrin the Healer (Guard), Angelic Renae (Mes), Death by Figrin (Thief)
Confusion is not a counter to dodge. Immobilize is the condition that outright prevents you from performing a dodge.
People need to learn that confusion is itself an attack, you dodge the confusion application, not try to dodge after it is already applied. This goes with all other damaging condition abilities. Just because the condition sometimes doesn’t do damage doesn’t mean you should allow the opponent to apply it on you.
I’m also quite sure it is intended that confusion should punish defensive abilities, otherwise there’s no point to it when compared to straight up offensive conditions like bleed, poison and burning.
If they do nerf confusion though, I hope they’ll re-introduce energy denial and draining from GW1. Let mesmers drain endurance from their enemies.
“… but I hate the idea ‘It may not make sense at first’.
I want it to make sense right away, then another sense later. Murkiness =/= quality "
- CCP Abraxis
Confusion is not a counter to dodge. Immobilize is the condition that outright prevents you from performing a dodge.
People need to learn that confusion is itself an attack, you dodge the confusion application, not try to dodge after it is already applied. This goes with all other damaging condition abilities. Just because the condition sometimes doesn’t do damage doesn’t mean you should allow the opponent to apply it on you.
I’m also quite sure it is intended that confusion should punish defensive abilities, otherwise there’s no point to it when compared to straight up offensive conditions like bleed, poison and burning.
If they do nerf confusion though, I hope they’ll re-introduce energy denial and draining from GW1. Let mesmers drain endurance from their enemies.
agree with this. Also, if u step into a trap and dodge after u still get the bleeds and poison stacks without even using a skill.I think confusion is working as intended and for those crying for a nerf:pick any other class that can apply conditions. if they have a condition build and know how to use it, it will hurt your character the same way as a well speced confusion build does!
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
If they do reduce overall confusion damage (after which I’ll get very drunk and sob myself to sleep), perhaps they can off-set the damage reduction by allowing confusion damage to hurt the target and everyone AROUND the target, as if they were spinning their weapons wildly, hitting their comrades. That could work, although it would make confusion less effective for 1v1.
Personally, I think the damage aspect of confusion in WvW is fine as is. The problem is with certain skills/traits that bypass the 5 target AoE limit by triggering when enemies cross a line. Confusing Enchantments needs a cap on the number of confusion stacks it can apply.
Confusion doesn’t need a nerf. Players just need an intelligence buff. If you are stupid enough to spam your skills and die to confusion then you deserve to die. I’ll tell you what does need a nerf though DOWNSTATE.. just remove it. So many times i have come up against a group of 3 people and got them into downstate only to have the warrior vengeance and rez his team.. wtf. If it goes down it should just die why do we need downstate anyway?
The only problem with confusion is the damage it does to on dodge traits (see warrior 5pt minor in strength). Thats the only problem with it.
If people die to it they have no self control and are robot programmed to spam there same rotation with out hesitation.
Watch a necro since they are use to saving there heal for when they have damaging conditions when they have a good stack amount on them that is when they heal. Its really not a big problem retreating. I mean doesn’t everyone retreat for a bit when they have 8 stacks of bleeds on them and 10 secs of poison with their cleanse on cd. Unless you have some good passive condi removal then you are backing off. Mesmers do it often as we have so, so condi removal.
I’ve never found larger numbers of glam mesmers to be effective vs. an organised group. Here in T2 NA there is a guild that runs many of them… and it just gets cleansed quickly. Their damage after is very poor. Too many around and it’s just a gimic.
It’s not mesmer cond that’s very strong right now… it’s Eng since they buffed their confusion. They are able to keep up 7 stacks of confusion with ease and have bleed/burning/pois on demand.
If they were to nerf mesmer confusion they really should buff up the other conditions to compensate.
I do agree on nerfing some aspects of confusion. Dodging while confused shouldn’t cause any damage, regardless of traits. In fact, all players should be completely invulnerable while dodging as that the whole point of it. Healing shouldn’t trigger it either unless the heal triggers an attack.
Nah, healing is the use of a skill. Dodges with an effect are also a use of a skill. It’s fine as is in both cases imo… you just have to pay a bit more attention to what you’re doing.
I’ve never found larger numbers of glam mesmers to be effective vs. an organised group. Here in T2 NA there is a guild that runs many of them… and it just gets cleansed quickly. Their damage after is very poor. Too many around and it’s just a gimic.
It’s not mesmer cond that’s very strong right now… it’s Eng since they buffed their confusion. They are able to keep up 7 stacks of confusion with ease and have bleed/burning/pois on demand.
If they were to nerf mesmer confusion they really should buff up the other conditions to compensate.
What other conditions? Staff one conditions don’t last very long and bleeds come from our illusions so they don’t scale with condition damage…. if they nerf confusion they just need to allow our illusions to inherent our condition damage that way they can actually do some good damage outside of straight damage.
