Guild Wars 2

Aaaaaand another post to hopefully fix the forum-bug… unless it gets merged with my previous post… wells; gotta try and see!

Edit: Worked.

Quick question…. how do you just happen to run across a 9 month old thread while ‘being away doing stuff IRL’?

Shhhh, don’t question the logic, Levetty. Azukas was busy playing mesmer, for real, in the game, because they’re a mesmer main, and mesmer mains have an instinctive knowledge of 9 year old clusterkitten threads.

Saturn.6591:

Not gonna bother responding to the actual topic (cause I think I already did and it won’t make a difference anyway… OP will happily ignore all the facts and claim to be omniscient and infallible/inerrant despite being proven wrong again and again).

But I really wanna ask who this Frostball person is, since everyone here seems to know… and I’ve never (at least not that I would remember) heard or read that name before it appeared in this thread, lol.

Frostball is quite possibly the best mesmer/proleague in the game right now. I mentioned proleague because there are monster mesmers in WvW as well (Kyra)

AtomsOrSystems.9420:

Azukas.1426:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PU-condi-mez/first#post5384202

Ok been away for awhile just kinda doing stuff IRL. Now while I was gone I found this thread where people were actually defending PU condi mesmers in WvW.

Wait WHAT no sane person who really cares about balance is going to defend PU condi mesmer!! Well I then notice those same names defending PU condi are the EXACT same ppl defending Condi Shatter here.

Thanks and let’s continue the cheering for how great we mesmers have it!!!

4) Maybe it’s the same people, because they’re the people who know something about this profession. Just a thought.

See folks, we’re back to bias again. Nine months ago we had Mesmers with well rounded, albeit broad views of the game coupled with actual mesmer gameplay experience in all the ways that matters, giving clear, accurate assessments of the issue of the day.

Then you have other people with their own bias at play, linking old threads with short pithy comments attached, misquoting, missassassing, and trying to draw correlations to their own unrelated arguments that are having trouble standing up all on their own.

Opposing Bias’. Good or bad? You be the judge.

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

apharma.3741:

Frostball.9108:

apharma.3741:

Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.

By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.

This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.

I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.

Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness.

Yes I’m aware the test was on a quickness/alacrity build in the link. There was also a discussion on the forums asking what people were getting for their DPS and the results were very similar to be honest. The highest I got for DPS was with 2 phantasmal warlock and a swordsman with all conditions on the golem, completely unreasonable but there we go. I believe it becomes better than a swordsman at 6 conditions which means it’s likely not much if at all better in a realistic scenario.

You might not care about base specs but I for one like diversity. Feeling like one of my trait lines is mandatory is taking away a significant amount of diversity whatever the class. I do however acknowledge ANet isn’t exactly trying to bring down the elite specs though.

Cool down increase on CS will always be a nerf to PvE mesmer no matter which way you cut it. The better question in my opinion is should CS be in the game? I mean what will it be next that people complain about, double signet of domination, double null fields? Then what happens when ANet buffs a useless utility and it becomes worth it on it’s own? Double it and you create the next problem.

You could even just make moa incompatible with it, there are ways other than cd nerf. I think continuum is sort of a part of the chronomancer theme but i wouldnt mind too much if it got removed, almost just that skill makes chrono worth taking over other specs.

Making moa selectively incompatible with CS is probably the best solution at this point. Mesmer would still be solid in PvP, and it wouldn’t be nerfed in PvE.

Let us all remember that Temporal Enchanter doesnt effect Timewarp for the sake of CD’s. So there is certainly precedent (even if Temporal Enchanter SHOULD effect timewarp cd XD)

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.

again i dont get this argument

moa and portal was there before so you only speak about CS which enable to doable moa alone. so portal is fine as it was fine long time ago.
so moa is the problem as it 80% of the time shut down ppl if it hits them. and the player not smart to kite dodge evade or his team dont support him

now the problem with the build

i am sure you rememeber the time mesmer could just 100-0 in 2 sec combo almost any class/build. ppl hate it cause ppl hate what they dont understand /see/ react/ or prevent them to react. so power mesmer got nerf while other got buff with direct dmg.

now after months of telling ppl why condi mesmer is op cause it shutdown almost any build out there with confusion and torment only now ppl QQ about it and take it with moa which is complete shutdown the QQ got stronger

now engi can fight mesmer on point also some good ranger build with condi cleanse
i think the problem is ppl forget about cleanse and drop 1 spot of utility for dmg/evade for it and now they QQ cause they dont have much cleanse
in pvp you must know that if you 1v1 for 1 min versus mesmer you have three options. try to win (low chances) , call for help for 1v2 which push the mesmer back of the point, leave the point and help somewhere else. condi build in the long run fight should win

why ppl stop QQ on necro with his condi bomb huge stack of poison and perma chill….

ppl hate to be moa and not smart to take more condi cleanse and 1v1 is not pvp at all you know that.

the only solution i can think of cause all the QQ is the turn CS to massive cd of skill and not recharge. like when using it each clone you had reduce cd of your skills by 15 sec . thus 4 clones are 60 sec so you got 30 sec more on moa cd. and for this nerf cs should give something else back. like if the rift is destroy or end it dos massive aoe dmg 360 r 5k unblockable or it heals you

but it will change all the concept or the mesmer controlling time

Alright so firstly, i dont think anything needs nerfs cuz of some randoms qqing. We had a balance talk with the league teams and anet and every single person in this talk agreed on mesmer being in a too strong state.

Portal has always been here, but we have never had the capabilities of condi mesmer paired with portal. Unless you want to keep having mediocre builds and be carried by these 2 skills they need to change so mesmers can get actual normal viable builds. I dont mind either but id imagine alot of people wouldnt in the end want to be completely locked to these 2 skills.

1v1s can be a big part of pvp. People always qqd about moa, but now theres actual reason to, theres no real big punishment so to say for missing moa when you can use it every 70s or so, and thats being generous.

You can nerf CS just by making it not affect moa. And yeah, the only thing that stands a chance 1v1 vs mesmer is druid, and only if the mesmer misses moa.

Frostball.9108:

Portal has always been here, but we have never had the capabilities of condi mesmer paired with portal. Unless you want to keep having mediocre builds and be carried by these 2 skills they need to change so mesmers can get actual normal viable builds. I dont mind either but id imagine alot of people wouldnt in the end want to be completely locked to these 2 skills.

1v1s can be a big part of pvp. People always qqd about moa, but now theres actual reason to, theres no real big punishment so to say for missing moa when you can use it every 70s or so, and thats being generous.

So you’re forgetting history a bit here. Condie mesmer has always been top tier 1v1. A well played condie mesmer has been able to trash just about anyone else from the PU condie era onwards. Despite that, it’s never been considered viable or strong in PvP for many reasons. So obviously, there’s a difference now that’s making it viable, and most would agree that that difference is double moa plus the added defense of chronomancer.

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Portal has always been here, but we have never had the capabilities of condi mesmer paired with portal. Unless you want to keep having mediocre builds and be carried by these 2 skills they need to change so mesmers can get actual normal viable builds. I dont mind either but id imagine alot of people wouldnt in the end want to be completely locked to these 2 skills.

1v1s can be a big part of pvp. People always qqd about moa, but now theres actual reason to, theres no real big punishment so to say for missing moa when you can use it every 70s or so, and thats being generous.

So you’re forgetting history a bit here. Condie mesmer has always been top tier 1v1. A well played condie mesmer has been able to trash just about anyone else from the PU condie era onwards. Despite that, it’s never been considered viable or strong in PvP for many reasons. So obviously, there’s a difference now that’s making it viable, and most would agree that that difference is double moa plus the added defense of chronomancer.

You are missing 1 more important thing. The addition of new amulets.

Now you have a condie mesmer with toughness plus 1050 direct damage.

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Portal has always been here, but we have never had the capabilities of condi mesmer paired with portal. Unless you want to keep having mediocre builds and be carried by these 2 skills they need to change so mesmers can get actual normal viable builds. I dont mind either but id imagine alot of people wouldnt in the end want to be completely locked to these 2 skills.

1v1s can be a big part of pvp. People always qqd about moa, but now theres actual reason to, theres no real big punishment so to say for missing moa when you can use it every 70s or so, and thats being generous.

So you’re forgetting history a bit here. Condie mesmer has always been top tier 1v1. A well played condie mesmer has been able to trash just about anyone else from the PU condie era onwards. Despite that, it’s never been considered viable or strong in PvP for many reasons. So obviously, there’s a difference now that’s making it viable, and most would agree that that difference is double moa plus the added defense of chronomancer.

Double moa affected it, sure, but before chronomancer it was not this tier, also class stacking being allowed before was another block for condi mesmer. The reason condi mesmer is good now is due to chrono line, without it, it would have no pressure whatsoever. If say condi mesmer couldve killed everything 1v1 in the shatter meta and still been useful in larger scale fights as it is now i think it wouldve been meta. This is in no sense a downgrade to our position comparing it to the shatter meta.

The amulet was something aswell, not the most impactful thing but another thing to be noted.

The synergy between chrono phantasma, persistence of memory and shield doesn’t help things. Illusionary reversion and mental defence add the cherry on top for allowing a shatter spam heavy play style.

At this point the only thing I can think of that should be done is that they need to start at the basic level and redesign many aspects of mesmer to make it competitive in all game modes. Yeah I know, I’m being shellfish wanting my dps Mesmer but I’d also like to be able to be more useful in a Zerg fight than veil/portal.

Yes I know Frostball, you can be part of the focus team and I’ve seen you do it on GH but it depreciates rapidly against map blob servers like DL and AM.

Shellfish :P I barely played wvw on GH, gonna transfer soon. Yeah i can see that being a thing i guess, i dont really know what would make mesmer useful there though, im not experienced in raiding. Id imagine at least in bigger blobs everyone has half a min of every boon anyway. Mesmer doesnt really offer much aoe dmg so itd probably be pretty hard.

With no redesigns that is ofc, so yeah, i see your point

[We appreciate the discussion, this thread has runs its course. It is now closed.]