Guild Wars 2

(Click Here to learn to play Shatter! otherwise Click Here to learn to play Lockdown!)

You know it’s odd.. I’ve only recently been asked the following question:

“Why do you play lockdown Mesmer over Shatter? Is it just for fun?”

I’ve been seeing this debate rise up more and more often as lockdown has gained popularity and as a result wanted to start a bit of discussion on the topic with the community we have here, because I found my answer to be much more complicated than I expected…

Shatter is currently seen as the best Mesmer build to use in PvP, and for good reason. Shatter Mesmer deal massive damage, have unparalleled boon stripping, and can very quickly turn the tide of battles with an organized team. Add portal to the mix and Mesmer allows for creative plays mixed in with high PBAoE burst damage (PBAoE = Point Blank AoE, an AoE that centers on a target, such as a shattering clone or Mantra ability) . This is something that very few other classes can excel at beyond Mesmer, Elementalist, and Thief (Who is more single-target focused).

SHATTER PROS

• Insane burst A three-clone-plus-Mesmer MindWrack is the stuff of nightmares.
• Unparalleled boonstripping Even moreso than lockdown Mesmer considering iPersona makes the Mesmer also count as a shatter.
• Utility via Portal Portal is love. Portal is life.

SHATTER CONS

• Squishy Without strong positioning and awareness, thou shall die.
• Trouble fighting on point Due to the gurella playstyle a shatter Mesmer employs, it is very hard to fight on point for prolonged periods of time.
• No condition removal Or no portal. Take your pick. Not as bad in organized teams that can handle cleansing for you.

So why play lockdown? Here’s my opinion.

Lockdown Mesmer are very different. Not only are they remnicient of GW1 Mesmer, lockdown builds are one of the more cerebral and strategic builds in GW2. Playing lockdown feels different from other Mesmer types. You CANNOT play Lockdown mesmer with a Shatter mesmer mentality, else it will feel ineffective, and you can’t simply pick-up-and-play the build like a PU Mesmer. You have to develop specific skills to play lockdown, you have to train your reflexes to spot interruptible skills and know when to spend those precious Mantra of Distraction charges. In my opinion, Lockdown is the most fun type of Mesmer once you learn how it works.

LOCKDOWN PROS

• Heavy damage Not quite as bursty, but properly combining interrupts with phantasms and shatters can net heavy damage.
• Boonstripping While Shatter Mesmer strip more boons, Lockdown Mesmer strips more strategically.
• AoE control Immobilizing Focus Pulls, Greatsword Pushes, Chaos Storms and Mantra charges, AoE Weaknesses/Vuln from clone deaths, and more
• Stomp/Rezz control If the enemy team does not have stab, odds are they aren’t stomping or rezzing with a lockdown Mes around.
• Solid defense So many boons and an extra 300 toughness definitely help a lockdown Mesmer fight on point

LOCKDOWN CONS

• Difficult to learn/be effective A lockdown Mesmer is much more difficult to make effective in a group play than shatter. All those above-mentioned pros need to be put into constant use.
• Not as bursty Uh.. not as bursty.
• No portal Or no condition removal.. Take your pick.

DIFFERENT ROLES
Shatter Mesmer have one main purpose: Burst the hell out of anything and everything that is percieved as an enemy. There is a priority to this, of course, with other squishier power-based zerker targets (Guardians, Rangers, Elementalists, unaware Thieves, ect.) coming first and boon-heavy opponents next on the list. And… that’s about it.
Lockdown Mesmer, while still doing heavy damage, do not have the insane bursts like Shatter Mesmer and as a result, it can feel like lockdown is just an “inferior” version of shatter. Lockdown Mesmer’s strength lie in the ability to suppress a target to keep it from doing much of .. anything.

• Lockdown Mesmer can AoE interrupt Stomps/Rezzes from 1200 range.
• Lockdown Mesmer are very good at disabling Elites such as Lich Form, Plague Form, Tornado, ect.

So, yes, Lockdown Mesmer still focus on doing heavy damage but their role is expanded and their targets are slightly different (With necros and other aoe-oriented classes being a priority).
One of the bigger complaints about Lockdown is how single-target focused it is, as opposed to shatter’s AoE damage. This is a massive misconception, as Lockdown Mesmer actually have MORE AoE presence than Shatter Mesmer do. Sword+Focus / Staff (or Greatsword) provide a number of AoE-oriented control abilities. Sword’s iLeap, Focus’s Curtain & Warden, and the 2h weapons are self-explainatory; the difference is the benefits we gain from interrupting which consists of boons, conditions (dat immobilize/blind!), and damage. All shatters, with the exception of [F1]Mind Wrack (shatter) and [F3]Diversion (lockdown) are equally important in both builds.

BUT… CAN’T OTHER CLASSES DO IT BETTER?
No, not really. The closest competitors to Lockdown Mesmer tend to be Hambow warriors, who offer AoE damage and control as well as being tougher to kill. Hambows have 2 AoE and 1 single-target CC at melee distance. Lockdown Mesmer have atleast 4 AoE and 1 Single-target CC, all which can be done at range. Engineer offer CC through explody turrets and pushy guns, but again … tis not the same.

TL;DR If you wanna hop into PvP and be highly effective with an easy, clearly-defined role then Shatter is for you. Shatter Mesmer are a strong asset to any team and while difficult to play, can be incredibly rewarding and effective. Lockdown Mesmer take a more strategic, meticulous approach to battle. They are more durable than shatter Mesmer by far and can have a massive impact on a battle, but can struggle to be as effective as easily.

Interrupt for life.

shatter for days.

I play an extremely selfish sPvP build that mixes both interrupt and shatter beautifully (but doesn’t use CI, so can’t call it lockdown).

Also, my feeling is that any standard 4/4/6 CI build doesn’t work unless shatter plays a big role in it. The mind wracks from the sword or CI immobs are your key damage source outside of the incidental halting strike. So I consider the standard CI build lockdown/shatter to begin with.

Let me help you with some things Chaos:

Pros of lockdown: If played perfectly, you are godmode and cannot lose any 1v1 or team fight. Also can burst very effectively and honestly I think youre underestimating my lockdown damage because ive killed people as fast or faster with CI sometimes then my shatter Mesmer has ever done.

One thing that I disagree with is that you said cannot play CI with a shatter mentality. I play CI like shatter, I just add another step.

Step 1 is to look for an opportunity to interrupt.

Step 2 is to burst them to hell when they are immboed while interrupting the next thing they attempt to cast (usually heal). If done properly you can 100-0 someone while keeping them perma immboed and get 20-25 stacks of might like I usually do on you. Its all about multitasking with lockdown, you have to watch animations, boons, cds, and whats happening in the fight to be effective as a CI mes.

Lockdown thrives on people panicing which you can use to exploit very harshly. Make people panic and they will just kill themselves. I 1v3ed a competitive team a couple days ago by putting chaos storm down and using my mantra to keep them in it. During this time I completely murdered all of them with my gs burst and they just stood there wondering what just happened.

For tpvp, this is my build I use: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJAWRlknpGtlpxWNcrNipxY6biJHSGQDlMkxB-TZBFwAMuAALeCAt2foaZAAHCAA

I started with CI, and as a result I’m much better with it than Shatter. My version actually brings Portal because to me that’s the one thing that Mes brings to the PvP table that no other class can. No one else can go home, place a port, go mid, and still be able to defend home at a moments notice. I thought I would miss Decoy, but you can use Portal to get halfway across the map if things get dicy. I’ve also noticed that CI has a much better chance vs Thief than Shatter. A Power Lock right after they jump will will generally interrupt which lets you chain Diversion or whatever you can. It’s still going to be close 1v1 but I feel much less vulnerable on CI. I’ve been messing around with offhand pistol and it seems like a viable replacement. Magic Bullet is much faster to use than the focus pull but of course you lose that great Place Curtin > Start casting Warden > use pull at about 25% in and if it interrupts they get locked in place and eat a ton of damage from the Warden.

Against the unfamiliar you can just wreck them because they end up dazed and confused.

I don’t mean to derail Chaos’s thread, but…

All I’ve every run is a shutdown CI-Mantra build. But apparently am not a worthy Mesmer, because when I look at these lockdown builds and the current “meta” Shatter builds. I just don’t see how anyone gets by without a condition cleanse?

In my experience, PvP is nothing but an “immobilize>dump AOE condition”, rinse – repeat. Especially against Mesmer. It almost seems like most other profession specifically search and destroy the Mesmer first because its such an easy kill with this strategy.

So how do you Masters live without any condition clears? Do you just portal away when immobilized? Or you are just kiting GODS and somehow never get caught?

SlimChance.6593:

I don’t mean to derail Chaos’s thread, but…

All I’ve every run is a shutdown CI-Mantra build. But apparently am not a worthy Mesmer, because when I look at these lockdown builds and the current “meta” Shatter builds. I just don’t see how anyone gets by without a condition cleanse?

In my experience, PvP is nothing but an “immobilize>dump AOE condition”, rinse – repeat. Especially against Mesmer. It almost seems like most other profession specifically search and destroy the Mesmer first because its such an easy kill with this strategy.

So how do you Masters live without any condition clears? Do you just portal away when immobilized? Or you are just kiting GODS and somehow never get caught?

Well, if you’re on point with your interrupts you don’t really need to fear condis because the classes that generally run them in PvP have slow cast times. Necros all but interrupt themselves.

Also, the meta in TPvP is more tanky + might stacking with celestial if your build can use it. I don’t find myself getting overwhelmed by conditions very often. There’s also the fact that your Guard or Ele can take care of condis for you if you’re communicating.

SlimChance.6593:

I don’t mean to derail Chaos’s thread, but…

All I’ve every run is a shutdown CI-Mantra build. But apparently am not a worthy Mesmer, because when I look at these lockdown builds and the current “meta” Shatter builds. I just don’t see how anyone gets by without a condition cleanse?

In my experience, PvP is nothing but an “immobilize>dump AOE condition”, rinse – repeat. Especially against Mesmer. It almost seems like most other profession specifically search and destroy the Mesmer first because its such an easy kill with this strategy.

So how do you Masters live without any condition clears? Do you just portal away when immobilized? Or you are just kiting GODS and somehow never get caught?

I stay out of clustered team fights and begin my lockdown chain before they can get any significant amount of conditions on me. Simply put, focus on 1v1 situations, or focus on a single person in group fight, and just CC them to death.

I, at least, haven’t found conditions to be a huge problem.

Lockdown 4 lyfe!

I’ve been running something similar to what Rylock has going on. Using Staff/GS to maintain the distance. The GS provides some pretty phenomenal burst, and if you think someone sees it coming, then switch to staff where the iWarlock’s damage is completely unexpected right after an interrupt or two. I keep a Doom Sigil on my staff as well, in the case that I miss interrupting a heal.

When you get the hang of the interrupts, the CI build is way more punishing to an enemy, and way more rewarding for you. I can’t land them as handily as Chaos or Rylock, but I’ll average about 15 might stacks against someone, which means 24 stacks of vuln on the enemy, plus they are immobilized, which means more phantasm and shatter damage on them. Oh and halting strike. Chain interrupts are burst.

Regarding condi classes: I’d say keeping your distance and doing damage with the GS is a lot of control on its own. Force them to use their heals and defensive abilities. I usually run with blink on a 24 sec cd and with 1200 range because it helps keep the distance. Runes of Lyssa + Distortion if you really have trouble with condis.

Stability is the only boon you need to look out for, and 4/4/6 still has plenty of clone creation, and boon stripping potential. Also GS3.

I think that a lot of people who run double ranged shatter would like Staff/GS CI. I have been using strength/hoelbrak runes, but sometime I’ll switch to pack runes when I’m using the Sword/Focus.

Last observation: when you’re more focused with on-point fighting as CI Lockdown, staff/sword focus provides you with the most manipulative movement, especially if you’re running with blink.

@BurrtheKing The fun part about this meta is CI hardcounters d/d eles/anything cele so hard and im amazed people haven’t figured it out yet. If teams run 2 cele classes we basically auto win because I can easily 1v1 them as well as completely lock them down in team fights.

@Tealot Good advice! I was a little rushed writing so you definitely got more then I did. Also, having 15 stacks of might in a 1v1 is honestly good and you should be happy with that! I also agree with ya on the double ranged shatter to double ranged CI, ever since ileap nerf I don’t really like sword anymore (I still love focus but im not running scepter focus gs)

I don’t thinks touched on it but I drift towards shatter because I don’t get to run in team question very often with groups that know or understand lockdown.

Lockdown also does require a more perfect domino effect to really hit home and if you completely botch your loads then you do basically become a less effective shatter Mesmer while you wait for recharges. It can be incredibly irritating to run into some classes or higher level players who can keep stability up for so much of a fight on themselves or a team. Without a big ape boon striping I feel like I’m not helping in a fight until stability vanishes and it can be too late at that point if your team cannot outlast it.

Lockdown > Shatter.

So much can go wrong with a shatter build/match. With lockdown an enemy dies without ever being able to do anything.

Id say the only reason you see less Lockdown than shatter is because Lockdown does require so much more skill/knowledge/etc to play.

Also lockdown in a team comp situation is an assured kill no matter what.

Also I’ll add,
T h i e f > I P
L o c k d o w n > T h i e f

@Rylock: Thanks! Regarding sword, I still use it a ton. I alternate a lot between GS/Staff/Sw-Focus setups. Maybe I just haven’t noticed any of the swap bugs. Focus is lovely. And I’ve actually never played with the pistol in a CI build before.

Staff/GS CI is probably easier to learn since to get the most damage out of the focus takes a lot of practice (though it is one of the best phantasms to place on a downed enemy, right along with an iZerker).

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Shatter can hold point as long it is not against more than 1 or they are not aware of you and you managed to open the fight on good burst.Second,both playstyles cant really compete against two players on point.Lockdown mesmer is good against bunkers aswell,I rememebr lots of time I am fighting a guard who tank the point and manage to kill him quick cause I didnt let him use any of his obvious healing animation skills and protection ripped easly with dodge+f2 on close.

Sandrox.9524:

Shatter can hold point as long it is not against more than 1 or they are not aware of you and you managed to open the fight on good burst.Second,both playstyles cant really compete against two players on point.Lockdown mesmer is good against bunkers aswell,I rememebr lots of time I am fighting a guard who tank the point and manage to kill him quick cause I didnt let him use any of his obvious healing animation skills and protection ripped easly with dodge+f2 on close.

Shatter can’t fight on point.

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Nope.

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you’re implying? I’d like to get an educated discussion going from as many different perspectives as possible.

A strength of Lockdown is that it can remove someone from fighting on point, decapping it during the fight via pull/push. It can also fight 1 vs X in some situations, like on orb or on open points, by locking down all the opponents with well-timed AoE disables. Of course, it can’t win 1 vs X all the time, but “sometimes” is pretty good for any build and it stalls very well, allowing your team time to get over to your position to help.

witcher.3197:

Sandrox.9524:

Shatter can hold point as long it is not against more than 1 or they are not aware of you and you managed to open the fight on good burst.Second,both playstyles cant really compete against two players on point.Lockdown mesmer is good against bunkers aswell,I rememebr lots of time I am fighting a guard who tank the point and manage to kill him quick cause I didnt let him use any of his obvious healing animation skills and protection ripped easly with dodge+f2 on close.

I can’t fight on point.

Seems the case.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you’re implying? I’d like to get an educated discussion going from as many different perspectives as possible.

Sure People here are in love with lockdown, portraying it as the better build, meanwhile there hasn’t been a single lockdown mesmer in tournaments in the history of GW2 (or at least not on a serious level).

While punishing people with interrupts is something i like to do since GW1, shatter does better in a tournament environment. The burst is bigger and more frequent, and with Illusionary Persona it’s a lot more adaptive because you can use your shatter skills without having clones – this is actually a huge thing. You can use Distortion to save yourself from something that could kill you even with 0 clones, or you can use Diversion to interrupt someone in melee range immediately – interrupting a warrior’s earthshaker this way for example.

If we look at the utility skills they also have a lot less ways to save themselves – mesmers realy a lot on positioning, and Blink + Decoy are key elements of it. With lockdown you have to take the daze mantra, and Portal can be considered mandatory as well, this means you can only take one of these – Blink is preferable, but that won’t be as useful against Mesmer’s hardcounter (Thief) as Decoy’s stealth.

TL;DR: Shatter’s a lot more adaptive IMO. Lockdown’s also more vulnerable when it’s getting focused and has lower damage.

witcher.3197:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you’re implying? I’d like to get an educated discussion going from as many different perspectives as possible.

TL;DR: Shatter’s a lot more adaptive IMO. Lockdown’s also more vulnerable when it’s getting focused and has lower damage.

Um, lockdown is literally the most adaptive build in the game. It has to adapt to every situation in order to be effective at 1v1s, 1vxs, and team fights. Every situation is different for us and we have to adjust. One time you could be fighting a ele 1v1 and the next time you’re fighting a engi 1v1. You cant just yolo burst like shatter on a set rotation, you actually have to plan carefully on what you want/need to interrupt as well as when to burst.

Anyway, I kinda laughed at the more vulnerable at being focused part because if I get focused by the enemy they will either be chain interrupted and die or I will kite them for ages thanks to 2 1/2 sec immbos and all my other cds (except for d/p panic strikes thief, but NA has none of them and I have 0 idea why, they are amazing). I don’t really get this blink+decoy is required as well, you only need blink to survive against thieves.

Finally, it seems everyone is hugely underestimating lockdown mesmers damage. In the right hands it does more damage then shatter because of 15-25 stacks of might almost permanently in fights and keeps the enemies basically perma immboed, allowing your team to do more damage or forcing condi cleanses.

Just have to say great thread Chaos, best discussion I’ve seen regarding lockdown. Tons of good info here.

I hope the conversation keeps going.

The point above about no top mesmers running lockdown on a team is interesting. I wish I were as good as Warlord, but I’m not, and if I were solely concerned with performance and “playing to win” as they say, I’d still go shatter. But no matter what I build I still die plenty so I just play for enjoyment, which for me is lockdown

Does anyone besides warlord honestly feel that if they were playing solely to win as much as possible that they’d be better off with lockdown?

Edit: Above post came in as I was typing this. Good response, thanks.

Edit Edit: Here’s a question that is a little off topic, but interesting: In a 1v1 between a shatter and a lockdown mesmer, who should win, and why?

Edit Edit Edit: Warlord, what would it take for you to make a video for lockdown the way Vash does for shatter. I’d love to get better, could we set up some OMFG lockdown workouts?

I think shatter is superior, i have a really hard time dealing with them as a lockdown mesmer, the boonstrips help a lot too,. and IP with the on demand f3 and f4.

Although what i said above is not true while facing rylock, he is the only (i think, chaos a close second)lockdown mesmer that gives me a super hard time.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown > Shatter.

So that’s why nobody runs lockdown in tournaments, only shatter?

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you’re implying? I’d like to get an educated discussion going from as many different perspectives as possible.

No one is going to discredit shatters burst power, or how that can be utilized to good effect at the torny level. IP shatter is both good and viable. So let’s not try to make this an either or argument.

Shatter has its weaknesses, and the moment the enemy team has a thief it’s hard countered. This is a fact and it’s been highlighted by those shatter mesmers at the torny level.

So why then don’t you see interrupt being used at the torny level? It’s the same reason we had a years worth of warriors everywhere during their godmode phase. Simply put it’s simpler, easier, more approachable. Let’s face it, Mesmer is not an easy class to master. There are fewer Mesmers across the board. Of those that spend their time in torny level play they happen to go with the easier option.

Interrupt play is more difficult to master and to manage. The builds dont suffer the same weaknesses of IP shatter though. Interrupt also works better within the framework of a team, which requires more team work (though its not necessarily necessary). So there is a higher skill, greater reward aspect at play here. If a Mesmer and a team went to the effort to grasp that it’d be an entirely different sport at torny level than what’s been seen so far.

Run out of time, cutting this short.

I know for the top players this isn’t true, but for many I think it is, but part of the issue is that I can play shatter and succeed while paying less attention to my enemy’s actions. Sure you need to time your stuff, but with lockdown you need to pay twice as much attention because you are timing your own dmg, paying attention to everything they are doing, AND trying to distinguish what are the key abilities to interrupt.

So your base level of attention and awareness has to be higher, and on top of that your reflex level knowledge of other classes has to be pretty complete.

This for me is the real challenge, it’s just that much more time to not only master my own class, but I kind of need to know every other class pretty well in order to lockdown truly well. Or I can go shatter and just yolo burst as warlord said (lol).

MSFone.3026:

I know for the top players this isn’t true, but for many I think it is, but part of the issue is that I can play shatter and succeed while paying less attention to my enemy’s actions. Sure you need to time your stuff, but with lockdown you need to pay twice as much attention because you are timing your own dmg, paying attention to everything they are doing, AND trying to distinguish what are the key abilities to interrupt. I cant see a reason why not to utilize this with all of your play and not just on lockdown? paying twice attention,and timing your dmg+watching enemy movement is crucial to any pvp play regardless of class or build.

So your base level of attention and awareness has to be higher, and on top of that your reflex level knowledge of other classes has to be pretty complete.same as above

This for me is the real challenge, it’s just that much more time to not only master my own class, but I kind of need to know every other class pretty well in order to lockdown truly well. Or I can go shatter and just yolo burst as warlord said (lol).
Ppl say yolo burst,but it isnt really,timing your burst is very important.(watch for protection,blocking skills,invuranblity and such).using every shatter skill smartly aswell.

In general,lockdown mesmer can reach higher dmg than shatter(might stack and targets would almost have perma 10+ stack of vurnability – if played correctly).
but shatter have much easier access to dealing dmg,while lockdown have to build it.

I think,and it is only my opinion,that the reason lockdown mesmers havent seen on high end toruney,is because 1.mesmer in general is less welcomed in high level pvp.
2.Mesmer shatter spec was and still is the prominent spec.
3.Lockdown is still “young” build which ppl yet to really appreciate.

MSFone.3026:

Just have to say great thread Chaos, best discussion I’ve seen regarding lockdown. Tons of good info here.

I hope the conversation keeps going.

The point above about no top mesmers running lockdown on a team is interesting. I wish I were as good as Warlord, but I’m not, and if I were solely concerned with performance and “playing to win” as they say, I’d still go shatter. But no matter what I build I still die plenty so I just play for enjoyment, which for me is lockdown

Does anyone besides warlord honestly feel that if they were playing solely to win as much as possible that they’d be better off with lockdown?

Edit: Above post came in as I was typing this. Good response, thanks.

Edit Edit: Here’s a question that is a little off topic, but interesting: In a 1v1 between a shatter and a lockdown mesmer, who should win, and why?

Edit Edit Edit: Warlord, what would it take for you to make a video for lockdown the way Vash does for shatter. I’d love to get better, could we set up some OMFG lockdown workouts?

I will answer your questions

Alright, in a 1v1, the lockdown mes should win 100% because you can always interrupt the shatter mesmers burst/heal/MI and return the burst easily with the immbo. Shatter mes only has 1-2 distortions depending on traits and when he uses all of them its so easy to interrupt constantly (as Mesmer abilities are very obvious and noticeable)

As for recording, there is that great article by Ross so I might be able to record in the future. I’ve honestly wanted to record for a while and I might be able to now with life becoming less insane

BurrTheKing.8571:

Portal because to me that’s the one thing that Mes brings to the PvP table that no other class can. No one else can go home, place a port, go mid, and still be able to defend home at a moments notice. I thought I would miss Decoy, but you can use Portal to get halfway across the map if things get dicy. I’ve also noticed that CI has a much better chance vs Thief than Shatter.

While I personally would agree with most of this, not bringing decoy means you’re going to have a harder time pushing far. I personally run under the guideline of, if you are a mobility focused class and you don’t have stealth, you probably have no business going far. Moreover, with Mesmer, I rarely go alone even with decoy. All you need to disengage from any fight is 3 seconds of stealth and something like a port. Engies are a bit different because they have swiftness and 5 seconds of stealth, but the same rule applies. When you are using portal to save your hide, remember you’re not using it to move your team around the map. That’s a large tole to take to move one person around the map for a 90 second cooldown.

In any case, it’s a hard question to answer because I generally do feel CI has a better shot against thieves over shatter, if played well, and portal is pretty much mandatory on any mesmer build focused on providing the most for the team (in soloque, you might be able to get away with not bringing it because it’s harder to co-ordinate with your teammates). Yet you also have to make hefty sacrifices because you don’t have decoy (amongst other things).

“Sure People here are in love with lockdown, portraying it as the better build, meanwhile there hasn’t been a single lockdown mesmer in tournaments in the history of GW2 (or at least not on a serious level).”

And also there is an abysmally low amount of people who really want to play the game seriously. There are a lot of stuff that has yet been really put to the ginding stone.

“3.Lockdown is still “young” build which ppl yet to really appreciate.”

I think this is the biggest reason. People always try to play different specs in the same way they are used to with some other spec, and it usually doesn’t work out as well (big surprise).

Chicago Jack.5647:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Portal because to me that’s the one thing that Mes brings to the PvP table that no other class can. No one else can go home, place a port, go mid, and still be able to defend home at a moments notice. I thought I would miss Decoy, but you can use Portal to get halfway across the map if things get dicy. I’ve also noticed that CI has a much better chance vs Thief than Shatter.

While I personally would agree with most of this, not bringing decoy means you’re going to have a harder time pushing far. I personally run under the guideline of, if you are a mobility focused class and you don’t have stealth, you probably have no business going far. Moreover, with Mesmer, I rarely go alone even with decoy. All you need to disengage from any fight is 3 seconds of stealth and something like a port. Engies are a bit different because they have swiftness and 5 seconds of stealth, but the same rule applies. When you are using portal to save your hide, remember you’re not using it to move your team around the map. That’s a large tole to take to move one person around the map for a 90 second cooldown.

In any case, it’s a hard question to answer because I generally do feel CI has a better shot against thieves over shatter, if played well, and portal is pretty much mandatory on any mesmer build focused on providing the most for the team (in soloque, you might be able to get away with not bringing it because it’s harder to co-ordinate with your teammates). Yet you also have to make hefty sacrifices because you don’t have decoy (amongst other things).

---

“Sure People here are in love with lockdown, portraying it as the better build, meanwhile there hasn’t been a single lockdown mesmer in tournaments in the history of GW2 (or at least not on a serious level).”

And also there is an abysmally low amount of people who really want to play the game seriously. There are a lot of stuff that has yet been really put to the ginding stone.

---

“3.Lockdown is still “young” build which ppl yet to really appreciate.”

I think this is the biggest reason. People always try to play different specs in the same way they are used to with some other spec, and it usually doesn’t work out as well (big surprise).

So I’m going to clarify something for your third reason. CI mes has been known by the top mesmers since last year from Chaos, myself, and a couple of mesmers. Supcutie believes it has potential (after seeing me dominate everyone including himself one day) but Helseth believes it is bad/cheese and apparently his word is law so that’s why people don’t use it. Also people are afraid to try some experimental builds so they never change, even though CI mes is incredible in this meta of d/d eles/cele engis, as it completely shuts them out.

Seems strange that somebody whose so obviously playing to win would dismiss CI as cheese. OH well.

Biggest downside I see to CI builds is having to recharge the daze mantra between fights, apart from that I love it personally.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

So I’m going to clarify something for your third reason. CI mes has been known by the top mesmers since last year from Chaos, myself, and a couple of mesmers. Supcutie believes it has potential (after seeing me dominate everyone including himself one day) but Helseth believes it is bad/cheese and apparently his word is law so that’s why people don’t use it. Also people are afraid to try some experimental builds so they never change, even though CI mes is incredible in this meta of d/d eles/cele engis, as it completely shuts them out.

I’ll use another example of a setup that most people have known about, but really hasn’t been put to the test: Venomshare thief. It suffers similar negative stigma, everyone has known about it for years, as you pointed out here but really no one has seriously fleshed it out in a team. That’s what I’m trying to get at.

Personally, what I call “cheese” would be something like: Stealthing a killshot warrior or ice bow ele or both (lol). Or more recently seen, double lich bomb after the enemy team has blown all their cooldowns killing the necros, only to have them ressed up by a mercy rune warrior then auto 1 them to death with lich. Something that is overly restrictive to get to work reliably. Double lich bomb we have seen is less restrictive, but I still think it’s not something that could seriously hold up water.

I don’t see lockdown mes under the similar banner.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Chicago Jack.5647:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Portal because to me that’s the one thing that Mes brings to the PvP table that no other class can. No one else can go home, place a port, go mid, and still be able to defend home at a moments notice. I thought I would miss Decoy, but you can use Portal to get halfway across the map if things get dicy. I’ve also noticed that CI has a much better chance vs Thief than Shatter.

While I personally would agree with most of this, not bringing decoy means you’re going to have a harder time pushing far. I personally run under the guideline of, if you are a mobility focused class and you don’t have stealth, you probably have no business going far. Moreover, with Mesmer, I rarely go alone even with decoy. All you need to disengage from any fight is 3 seconds of stealth and something like a port. Engies are a bit different because they have swiftness and 5 seconds of stealth, but the same rule applies. When you are using portal to save your hide, remember you’re not using it to move your team around the map. That’s a large tole to take to move one person around the map for a 90 second cooldown.

In any case, it’s a hard question to answer because I generally do feel CI has a better shot against thieves over shatter, if played well, and portal is pretty much mandatory on any mesmer build focused on providing the most for the team (in soloque, you might be able to get away with not bringing it because it’s harder to co-ordinate with your teammates). Yet you also have to make hefty sacrifices because you don’t have decoy (amongst other things).

---

“Sure People here are in love with lockdown, portraying it as the better build, meanwhile there hasn’t been a single lockdown mesmer in tournaments in the history of GW2 (or at least not on a serious level).”

And also there is an abysmally low amount of people who really want to play the game seriously. There are a lot of stuff that has yet been really put to the ginding stone.

---

“3.Lockdown is still “young” build which ppl yet to really appreciate.”

I think this is the biggest reason. People always try to play different specs in the same way they are used to with some other spec, and it usually doesn’t work out as well (big surprise).

So I’m going to clarify something for your third reason. CI mes has been known by the top mesmers since last year from Chaos, myself, and a couple of mesmers. Supcutie believes it has potential (after seeing me dominate everyone including himself one day) but Helseth believes it is bad/cheese and apparently his word is law so that’s why people don’t use it. Also people are afraid to try some experimental builds so they never change, even though CI mes is incredible in this meta of d/d eles/cele engis, as it completely shuts them out.

If you listen to Helseth for five minutes it becomes quite clear he’s held back by his own mental strongholds.

Helseth takes a hit

@Chicago I see what you mean now. Its kinda funny but I think venom share thief and CI mes are both highly underrated, as they both can win team fights by themselves and can really do some incredible things. (in wvw I just ran a vampirism rune venomshare thief with my 3 man roaming group and it actually was the most fun I’ve ever had on thief)

@Ross Yea i’m very aware Helseth doesn’t have a very open mind but i’m still going to try very weird and odd builds (like CI mes and venomshare thief) and still do extremely well. I mean, I try to spread the word that certain builds can be really good but in the end Im just one person and usually only my guild listens. Its frustrating to have so many good ideas be ignored x. x

There is no debate on which spec is better. I’m saying this with experience at the top level with both specs.

I enjoy interupt spec a lot. When I say interupt spec I mean 20 dom 20 duel 30 chaos with mantra for interuption. It’s superior in a lot of skirmish matchups but suffers in a lot of other ways.

First, shattering without IP is far worse than with, there are so many setups that you arent able to use such as the 4s dazechain that is viable with shatter.
2nd, playing without mantra of distraction makes you a onetrick pony. Good players will use stab to initiate whenever you swap to staff to precounter your chaos storm. This’ll force you to use your slow awkward shatters in order to attempt to rip boons, if you fail you’ve effectively lost the duel.

This means you’re forced to take mantra vs good players and that means that you’re dropping either portal blink or decoy.

Portal and decoy are the two utilities to drop in this case but if you’re facing thief you really should never drop decoy.

dropping portal in high lvl pvp <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You’ll be completely reliant on your mantra to score wins which becomes harder and harder the more players are in the fighht since there are more random things to screw you over such as opponents cleansing the immobs, enemies randomly getting aegis, you getting blinded or ccd so you cant follow up etc.

I’d say that the interupt spec is better in lower levels of play though. Because then you’ll be up vs people that have no clue how to face the spec and will run into chaos storm+daze combo leaving them ccd to death which is awlays hilarious to watch.

It’s also potentially useful as a suprise swap which I’ve been considering every now and then for tournaments. It’ll take a game or so to adjust and by then the damage will already have been done. The problem with doing this is that swapping from CI to IP is such a huge switch in mentality that I always feel crippled gameplay wise when I’ve done it.

So, debate over. Run along now people.

Reference; I’m a king

The idea that I don’t have an open mind for mesmer builds is absolutely absurd considering:

1. I made the halting strike switch before anyone else in the top scene
2. I made the elasticy switch before anyone else in the top scene
3. I played CI without portal and made it work before
4. I’ve now scored wins vs every single team out there and recently played last ESL final with sword
5. I ran both power block and confounding making both both of them work at top end (and nerfed lol) the sec they came out

Depends who I’m playing with.
No War or Engi, but we have a Thief, use lockdown.
No Thief but War/Eng on my team, use shatter.
Thief + War/Eng or Ele, shatter
No Guard or Thief on my team, don’t use Mesmer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8dlknpGtlpxUNcrNipRY674cSHcMUqSA

After more trials and if you guys think its a good build I might even make a thread calling it Pure-ruption. Since it has both CI and CS, which is the staples of any interrupt build. I also like to think of this as the have your cake and eat it to build. In order to counter act the fact that you are missing DE and IC I took greatsword training, so I have faster clone generation and not to mention Zerker. Here is where this build shines, so many of you were complaining that Interrupt doesn’t dps like a shatter build. Well this build does it better. Like a phantasm build you will be relying on your phantasms to do MASSIVE spike damage. This is because you will be combining CS stun and daze with wastrels to max damage. This is where things really get interesting. By sacrificing IC and DE, then you get to have CI as well. This guarantee’s that whoever got interrupted is immobilized and with BI you also have Might. So whoever is caught must blow a stun breaker and or condi cleanse, so they can get away from all that dps they are about to get from Zerker and Halting strike combined. Even if they survive it’s a heal also blown. This is where sword + focus becomes deadly. You have TWO immobilize with ileap and CI from curtain’s pull. This means a whole group will be forced to sit and take wardens aoe, unless they are up to blow another stun breaker/ condi cleanse. Even if somehow they come out alive. They literally are sitting ducks under so much pressure, probably panicking, and greatsword training has you ready for round 2. Obviously MoD is a requirement for when your curtain and wave don’t work out for you, or those pesky heals, which if timed right means game over. You don’t have to worry about clone generation because your spikes wont come from mind wrack, so that you can keep zerker and warden up for max damage like a phantasm build. You guys starting to see why I call it the have my cake and eat it too build. You don’t have to worry about your phantasms being killed cuz with your timed interrupts and blink you should be able to kite and line of sight most players. With BI and Phantasmal Fury you always have a chance to have might and fury to cut down on health. Not to mention all the vulnerability you can put on them, such as debilitating dissipation(would never leave out those clones). Going into chaos turns this glassy build into one that can last long enough to kill your opponent and interrupt them from giving you damage in the first place.

Now for the nuances. Just because we are using phantasms for our real damage. Doesn’t mean you skimp on shatters when you need to. With so many ways to immobilize we can utilize might and fury procs from BI for some heavy mind spike damage. Not to mention diversion with halting strikes procs, which may lead to more immobilization for another chance at zerker and warden finish. I use null field because I am not comfortable with 2 mantras atm with such a situation based build as an interrupt. Arcane thievery can get the job done I suppose, but chaos armor and confusion from null field could come in handy with warden ileap, and zerker. With mind stab that allows us 2 boon strips, and one condition cleanse. Wait did you guys forget about warden and temporal curtain cleanse. :-) Now about that moa vs. mass invis issue. I choose mass because it is on a shorter cd. This allows me to make it a multi purpose tool, which is for rezz/stomp/disengage with blink/ or my favorite recast MoD.

See guys don’t you all love cake. I run with zerker amulet. With focus and blink there is no need to rely on speed runes anymore. So you can go with Strength/Ogre/Pack. It is up to you depending on if you want more power and might for constant pressure. Or ferocity and fury for those phantasm spikes. I use sigil of impact for further synergy with wastrels, it’s all about pressuring them into blowing those cleanses and stun breakers early, so we control the flow of the match. As well as sigil of air, so I can really put pressure on someone with or without phantasms, but you can choose fire if you wanna take advantage of the builds aoe capabilities.

So guys this is my first post PLZ critique away(constructively). I am sorry for the wall of text, but I wanted to make sure you guys got the whole gist of the build, and why I think it is so good. While I was putting it through it’s initial trials the only real counter I ran into was some turret engi’s, which could be because they too are a cc build with easy access to cleanses, and utilize ranged damage so immobilize isn’t as dangerous as it is for melee classes, or ele’s and thieves who must always be moving. With how easy it is to interrupt rangers and necromancers slow cast, they are easy not to mention aoe damage gets rid of those pesky companions. GO MEZ!!!

MSFone.3026:

Sure you need to time your stuff, but with lockdown you need to pay twice as much attention because you are timing your own dmg, paying attention to everything they are doing, AND trying to distinguish what are the key abilities to interrupt.

So your base level of attention and awareness has to be higher, and on top of that your reflex level knowledge of other classes has to be pretty complete.

This for me is the real challenge, it’s just that much more time to not only master my own class, but I kind of need to know every other class pretty well in order to lockdown truly well. Or I can go shatter and just yolo burst as warlord said (lol).

All the stuff you said you need to pay attention to w/ lockdown…you STILL should do this as a $hatter mesmer. You still need to know other classes and builds and animations. Just because YOU play shatter sloppily does not mean others do.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

@Ross Yea i’m very aware Helseth doesn’t have a very open mind but i’m still going to try very weird and odd builds (like CI mes and venomshare thief) and still do extremely well. I mean, I try to spread the word that certain builds can be really good but in the end Im just one person and usually only my guild listens. Its frustrating to have so many good ideas be ignored x. x

You assume others haven’t tested “weird and odd” builds. We have.

Quite a few of your posts smell of you trying to persuade others to try your build. Just post your build, answer questions and leave it at that. Why call others out like this? Why be frustrated? Play the build you love playing. If it works for your team, fantastic. If people give you c r a p for it, whatevs, ignore em if they’re rude, answer their question(s) if they ask why you run it (or just link your guide and tell em to figure it out on their own).

Don’t think I know what it’s like to have people question my build/trait/utils? I get crap all the time for running Reflect heal. It’s gimmicky, but it IS a surprise people don’t expect during duels. I use it on pew pew rangers and life-blasting necromancers during duels. It works for me. I would not use it during tPvP, though. Too gimmick-y.

valar.5498:

There is no debate on which spec is better. I’m saying this with experience at the top level with both specs.

I enjoy interupt spec a lot. When I say interupt spec I mean 20 dom 20 duel 30 chaos with mantra for interuption. It’s superior in a lot of skirmish matchups but suffers in a lot of other ways.

First, shattering without IP is far worse than with, there are so many setups that you arent able to use such as the 4s dazechain that is viable with shatter.
2nd, playing without mantra of distraction makes you a onetrick pony. Good players will use stab to initiate whenever you swap to staff to precounter your chaos storm. This’ll force you to use your slow awkward shatters in order to attempt to rip boons, if you fail you’ve effectively lost the duel.

This means you’re forced to take mantra vs good players and that means that you’re dropping either portal blink or decoy.

Portal and decoy are the two utilities to drop in this case but if you’re facing thief you really should never drop decoy.

dropping portal in high lvl pvp <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You’ll be completely reliant on your mantra to score wins which becomes harder and harder the more players are in the fighht since there are more random things to screw you over such as opponents cleansing the immobs, enemies randomly getting aegis, you getting blinded or ccd so you cant follow up etc.

I’d say that the interupt spec is better in lower levels of play though. Because then you’ll be up vs people that have no clue how to face the spec and will run into chaos storm+daze combo leaving them ccd to death which is awlays hilarious to watch.

It’s also potentially useful as a suprise swap which I’ve been considering every now and then for tournaments. It’ll take a game or so to adjust and by then the damage will already have been done. The problem with doing this is that swapping from CI to IP is such a huge switch in mentality that I always feel crippled gameplay wise when I’ve done it.

So, debate over. Run along now people.

Reference; I’m a king

The idea that I don’t have an open mind for mesmer builds is absolutely absurd considering:

1. I made the halting strike switch before anyone else in the top scene
2. I made the elasticy switch before anyone else in the top scene
3. I played CI without portal and made it work before
4. I’ve now scored wins vs every single team out there and recently played last ESL final with sword
5. I ran both power block and confounding making both both of them work at top end (and nerfed lol) the sec they came out

And scepter clones AA is the new meta too now right? :/

Ross Biddle.2367:

And scepter clones AA is the new meta too now right? :/

As easy as it can be for Higher up players to lose touch with the rest of the game inside of what has been a very isolated bubble.

and as much as I don’t agree with what some of Helsth’s ideas or style.

It’s nice to have my feelings echo’d from before.

Lock Down can be great but Shatter is just a lot more Foolproof.

Basicly for me it boils down to this (after some thought last night)

Shatter – Can I hit F1-3 and help myself and My Team right now? Yes? Do it. No? Don’t Do it. Focus on Supporting through utilities and weapon skills! Interrupts do extra damage so make it count.

Lock Down – Can I use an interrupt right now on that skill that that one guy is using even if its not my target? Is that guy close enough to get interrupted if i’m using my mantra? Does he have a clone close enough that is tied to him that can interrupt? Is there Stability up that i need to remove first? Am I about to be blinded or are they about to throw down cover boons and Stability? Is that skill a game breaker to interrupt or should i Save my interrupts for later in the fight?

Should I used my pull to save someone or save it for an interrupt later? Chaos storm on my team for the boons to keep them afloat over there or save chaos storm until the enemy is all blobbed up because I might be able to abuse my 1 single trait to keep them inside of it..

Too many If/then spur of the moment calls to make and it can easily go south the moment you make a poor call or the opposing team has a lucky fool.

It’s just not the better build for me. I don’t want to have to work 3 times harder to accomplish in some situations what I already do, and do very well, in almost any situation.

Swish, you left out the part where Lockdown can also “Focus on Supporting through utilities and weapon skills!”

While you demonstrate well that lockdown takes more management, you over exaggerate the actual thought process that goes into it. Ideally, you only need to answer two of those questions at most before the game is in your favor. Once you lock someone down it SHOULD be over for that person.

edit – personally, that’s the shining difference for me. With shatter, I can burst someone, but they have a high chance of recovery even if I do everything right. When I play on my lockdown, if I lock you down you might as well get a drink a water while you wait for your impending respawn.

MailMail.6534:

Swish, you left out the part where Lockdown can also “Focus on Supporting through utilities and weapon skills!”

While you demonstrate well that lockdown takes more management, you over exaggerate the actual thought process that goes into it. Ideally, you only need to answer two of those questions at most before the game is in your favor. Once you lock someone down it SHOULD be over for that person.

edit – personally, that’s the shining difference for me. With shatter, I can burst someone, but they have a high chance of recovery even if I do everything right. When I play on my lockdown, if I lock you down you might as well get a drink a water while you wait for your impending respawn.

Ideally is never a good word to use to make a compelling point.

Ideally Mesmer would have more AoE damage utilities, and Confusion Glamor would be restored to allow Mesmer to hammer on Zergs again. But “ideal” is often a rare or non-occurrence.

Attempting to Lock down an organized team more than a few times has never worked for me. They learn and they can cover one another and negate you very easily. You also burn out very quickly in heavier battles or you have to lightly pepper them from the side lines while avoiding taking any heat.

In a 1v1 or maybe a 2v2, yes Lock Down can really cut off someone from being effective and can ruin a poorly matched duo’s chances in a fight.

Landing a big shatter on a group means everyone needs to Heal and recover, putting them on the defensive and burning more vital skills imo.

@Swish: It sounds like you’re saying shatter is easier to play while exaggerating the thought process that goes behind lockdown. Shatter is burst, that’s what it does, but one of the biggest between the two is the frequency and power of said bursts.

“Can I hit F1-3 and help myself and My Team right now? Yes? Do it. No? Don’t Do it. Focus on Supporting through utilities and weapon skills! Interrupts do extra damage so make it count.”
What you described for shatter also goes for lockdown, but if you’re trying to achieve the same goal with both builds then yeah.. its gonna feel like lockdown is just an inferior version of shatter.

• Can I use an interrupt right now on that skill that that one guy is using even if its not my target? Is that guy close enough to get interrupted if i’m using my mantra? Does he have a clone close enough that is tied to him that can interrupt? Is there Stability up that i need to remove first? Am I about to be blinded or are they about to throw down cover boons and Stability? Is that skill a game breaker to interrupt or should i Save my interrupts for later in the fight?"*

That is a far too cerebral perspective for a fast-paced teamfight. After a quick stability check you pick a target (either someone squishy, transformed, or clustered near other opponents) and start doing your thing. You don’t worry about interrupting key skills unless the tell is obvious or you’re facing a 1v1.

@Valar: Thanks for sharing your perspective! While I respect it, there are a few things I disagree on. Lockdown, even without the extra distortion, has better defenses and is more survivable than shatter, which is exactly why Decoy isn’t as crucial in a 4/4/6 (20/20/30) Lockdown build. Yeah, there are times when a clutch Zer0Clone Distortion will save lives and get you out of rough situations, and for sure IPersona is probably one of the best Grandmasters in the entire game, however…

Assuming utilities of Blink/Portal/MoDistraction, I’d disagree that Interrupt Mesmers are over-reliant on MoDistraction to do meaningful damage. In fact, MoDistraction isn’t really a damage source in the first place. I don’t know how much time you’ve spent on Lockdown, but I’m going to assume you’re much more experienced with shatter. Like I said before shatter is easier to be effective with, but everything you do on shatter you do on Lockdown to a lesser effect with the tradeoff of being more effective in different situations. Stability/Aegis/Guardians in general are definitely a pain but a lot of the gripes you throw at Lockdown Mesmer can be mitigated with good play and positioning, same kittenter.

Again, I’m not saying that lockdown is superior. I’m saying it’s highly underrated and isn’t as heavily overshadowed by shatter as people think.

@witcher: I appreciate the elaboration. Yes, Lockdown does not have the burst of Shatter and has to use much more abilities in order to achieve similar damage however I do not agree that Shatter is that much more survivable. Interrupt Mesmer are more boon heavy, especially in regards to gaining Protection in addition to having more innate toughness and being harder to focus. The loss of Decoy and 0-clone shatters hurt for sure but I think what really is a deciding factor is the question of: Is what lockdown offers to a team worth the tradeoff?

@Ecanus: Wall of text? That was a Babylonian tower of text. o_O I’m going to respond to it in a different thread so as to not derail this one.

And that’s a question I really want to highlight:

“Is what lockdown offers to a team worth the tradeoff?”

Do you feel losing iPersona and having shatters that aren’t as damaging for the trade off of interrupting stomps/heals, AoE Immobilizes? If not, what do you think is needed to push lockdown to shatter’s pedestal?

Calypso.2578:

MSFone.3026:

Sure you need to time your stuff, but with lockdown you need to pay twice as much attention because you are timing your own dmg, paying attention to everything they are doing, AND trying to distinguish what are the key abilities to interrupt.

So your base level of attention and awareness has to be higher, and on top of that your reflex level knowledge of other classes has to be pretty complete.

This for me is the real challenge, it’s just that much more time to not only master my own class, but I kind of need to know every other class pretty well in order to lockdown truly well. Or I can go shatter and just yolo burst as warlord said (lol).

All the stuff you said you need to pay attention to w/ lockdown…you STILL should do this as a $hatter mesmer. You still need to know other classes and builds and animations. Just because YOU play shatter sloppily does not mean others do.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

@Ross Yea i’m very aware Helseth doesn’t have a very open mind but i’m still going to try very weird and odd builds (like CI mes and venomshare thief) and still do extremely well. I mean, I try to spread the word that certain builds can be really good but in the end Im just one person and usually only my guild listens. Its frustrating to have so many good ideas be ignored x. x

You assume others haven’t tested “weird and odd” builds. We have.

Quite a few of your posts smell of you trying to persuade others to try your build. Just post your build, answer questions and leave it at that. Why call others out like this? Why be frustrated? Play the build you love playing. If it works for your team, fantastic. If people give you c r a p for it, whatevs, ignore em if they’re rude, answer their question(s) if they ask why you run it (or just link your guide and tell em to figure it out on their own).

Don’t think I know what it’s like to have people question my build/trait/utils? I get crap all the time for running Reflect heal. It’s gimmicky, but it IS a surprise people don’t expect during duels. I use it on pew pew rangers and life-blasting necromancers during duels. It works for me. I would not use it during tPvP, though. Too gimmick-y.

I agree with what ya said. I just think lockdown and a couple of specs has a lot of missed potential and it needs a little advertisement. As for the rude people, theres a very good reason why I basically only play with friends/guildmates now, as I get a lot of harassment for running non shatter from randoms in tpvp, since people are really meta centric these days. Plus until the guild I am currently in, I was harassed by every guild I was in about using non-meta specs so I was just a little frustrated. Didn’t mean to sound like people never tried new things so sorry about that!

Chaos Archangel.5071:

And that’s a question I really want to highlight:

“Is what lockdown offers to a team worth the tradeoff?”

Do you feel losing iPersona and having shatters that aren’t as damaging for the trade off of interrupting stomps/heals, AoE Immobilizes? If not, what do you think is needed to push lockdown to shatter’s pedestal?

To push lockdown a bit higher I think it needs a few traits that add interrupts to thing like crits. Say a 25% chance to interrupt and action on a critical with an icd of some type.

If ci applied imob in a small aoe it’s potential would also rival that of ip for me. Locking up whole groups rather than just one or two that happened to get interrupted.

It’s a strong spec It just lacks the ability to maintain full potential for me. There’s a lot of wasted traits that are never touched in both shatter and lockdown trait lines that could be redone to give way to more rival builds to shatter.

Boom! I think Swish just discovered the new and improved “Furious Interruption” grandmaster trait!!