Guild Wars 2

What is a good moment to shatter?
I can do no damage with shatter at all, but when I have mesmers as opponents they always manage to immobilize & shatter me in an instant.
How do you do that?

In the middle of long cast time skills is usually a winner if you don’t have a sword for imob..

After they burn two dodges in a row

When someone is right on top of you or you on them is also cake. This gets thieves a lot and can really hurt if you bring mirror images to pop and blow up.

I’m pretty fresh on mesmer only like 4 months paying one at max, mainly pvp though. Feel free to add me in game I’d love to help by sparring and pointing out where and when are optimal to shatter. I kinda of base it off the class and what rotations I can expect. Took some practice but it pays off, nothing feels better than watching anecros fat health bar melt in a matter of seconds.

My problem is rather to hit a thief with it… :S

I mained thief my first year and a half, it’s a hard matchup on the mesmers side, they are super predictable though, I have caps lock bound for closest target, when a thief stealths I wait a second or two, flurry (sword 2) and mash my closest target key till he pops followed by a immiediate shatter kinda one trick ponyish but it works.

Same offer to you though I’d love dueling you on my thief so you can get a grasp on it, I feel is the best learning tool, instead of just having random skirmishes you try to learn from

Hm, I’m using staff and gs and if I want to hit a thief – well he dodges. Always, even when he attacks, it feels impossible to attack him. They often win 100:0 HP against me. I don’t have such problems with any other class. I tried to outplay them with some really good flashes and ports and it worked but I can’t rely on a good battleground all the time and even then the hitting shatters are lucky strikes.

Xyonon.3987:

Hm, I’m using staff and gs and if I want to hit a thief – well he dodges. Always, even when he attacks, it feels impossible to attack him. They often win 100:0 HP against me. I don’t have such problems with any other class. I tried to outplay them with some really good flashes and ports and it worked but I can’t rely on a good battleground all the time and even then the hitting shatters are lucky strikes.

Dueling a thief is a guessing game, especially S/D and their countless evades.

Vashury made a good video about fighting thieves.

Xyonon.3987:

Hm, I’m using staff and gs and if I want to hit a thief – well he dodges. Always, even when he attacks, it feels impossible to attack him. They often win 100:0 HP against me. I don’t have such problems with any other class. I tried to outplay them with some really good flashes and ports and it worked but I can’t rely on a good battleground all the time and even then the hitting shatters are lucky strikes.

Your problem is you’re not bringing the right tools for the job. Staff/GS Shatters? They know exactly what you’re about and what’s coming.

In contrast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55t0vzyvyA

If you enter planning to play a guessing game on the chance you get lucky (Shatter), of course you’re going to get a bad result. It’s like gambling, House always wins. Don’t be a gambler, be the House.

BAIT OUT DODGES.
Either- Stealth and then walk on to of them to diversion daze chain them (they freak out when they see they have 50-60% hp in like 1 second, they will dodge spam and waste their dodges

Or- spam phantasms from range and wait for the dodge spamming to then shatter.

It’s all about element of surprise. LINE UP SHATTERS when in stealth. Dont spam shatters when you and your clones are 1000 yards away as thats way to predictable. (clones have to walk like zombies to your target before shattering (easy to see and hence block/dodge.

I land shatters very effectively by decoy/mass invis>phantasm summoning skills>dodge towards target>shatter (this can all be done before you re appear) and the enemy have no reaction time to dodge ( they jsut waste their dodges after because they panic)….by then you can just line up another shatter knowing they have no dodges.

Hope this helps

In terms of v thief, you have to out play them.

Know they will steal pretty much as soon as they appear from stealth so when they gank me from stealth ( i play gs/staff shatter) distortion/decoy ASAP. usually they will waste a steal.

If they restealth, wait a few seconds then stealth yourself and place portal (usually they will run out of stealth time and you should still be in stealth, meanig you can get some dmg off)

If they are in stealth and you know they are near you, place Chaos Storm down on you. The Aegis(block) it gives you(hopfully) is OP when it comes to preventing backstabs as well as potentially giving them conditions in stealth.

Finally…positioning positioning positioning.

Learn thieves cd’s, and when they are likely to use them and adjust accordingly. Learn all the blink/teleport/phase retreat spots on the maps for mesmer (will buy you precious nuke/heal up time v thieves or any class) and dont be afraid to use portal cd to kite between a small space.

Steinpilz.5078:

What is a good moment to shatter?
I can do no damage with shatter at all, but when I have mesmers as opponents they always manage to immobilize & shatter me in an instant.
How do you do that?

It’s simple. The moment before you shatter, ask yourself 3 questions:
1. Do you have weakness?
2. Does your target have protection?
3. Will your shatterS hit your target?

For 1, Your shatters do 50% less damage while you have weakness. Try to avoid shatter when you have weakness (by waiting for it to run out or cleanse it).

For 2, Your target takes 33% less damage. If you have traited Shattered Concentration, your first shatter (out of your 3-4 shatter) will do 33% less damage. Try to avoid shatter when the target has protection. Note that, sometimes you may need to shatter the protection off if you traited for boon removal.

For 3, Will your target dodges or absorbs (with skills) your shatters. Usually you will need to bait their dodges and the skills that can absorb damage before you shatter. However, you can just shatter your target if you can position your clones(and perhaps yourself if you have IP) properly. That is the “Triangle” which is like the bermuda triangle, you will see your target disappear within the triangle.

These are the basics of F1 shatter (perhaps F2 too?). Note that the tactics for F3 shatter is different.

Don’t always save up for a 3 clone mind wrack, you do good damage at 2 and 3 (including yourself.) you’d do better to blow a 2 clone shatter than you would be going for 3 having to react and wasting a clone.

oh yeh Daishi.6027 is right, sometimes(or most of the time?) it is better to shatter without all 3 clones up. there is a basic combo for gs as an example: mirror blade, mind wreck, mind stab. From this combo, you will only have a maximum of 2 shatters(with IP) but still do good damage, especially against zerkers. there are also situations where you need to shatter before the clones get cleaved, but those 3 questions will always help newer shatter mesmers to not wasting their shatters.

Swish.2463:

After they burn two dodges in a row

What are the best ways to force a dodge?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is you’re not bringing the right tools for the job. Staff/GS Shatters? They know exactly what you’re about and what’s coming.

In contrast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55t0vzyvyA

Do you use the standard 2-2-0-0-6 build or is your build different?

Steinpilz.5078:

Swish.2463:

After they burn two dodges in a row

What are the best ways to force a dodge?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is you’re not bringing the right tools for the job. Staff/GS Shatters? They know exactly what you’re about and what’s coming.

In contrast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55t0vzyvyA

Do you use the standard 2-2-0-0-6 build or is your build different?

You mean 4, 4, 0, 0, 6, and if you’re asking me then whats in that vid is this

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantrupt-Asskicker-CS-Interrupt/first#

I don’t think staff + gs is that predictable? Every class/build has it’s key skill which can always be predicted (staff gs is mirror blade, gs + sw/t it’s iLeap ect)

How to make your shatters hit?
You basically bait dodges by using any of your skills. People really have to dodge your mirror blade and izerker, because if they don’t, they will take a lot of damage, also your AA will do a lot of damage due to fire + air procs which some will try to dodge allowing you to use mirror blade shatter.
If you’re using sword/torch, they should dodge the sword immobilize, which most people fail to do.

Some people (been guilty of this, oh so many times) actually try to wait for the moment too much so that in the end they don’t shatter as much as they should.
You should not have any issues with making them land on gs + sw/t (immobilize with sword, blurred frenzy + shatter or immobilize – swap into GS, mirror blade +shatter) staff gs is a bit of a different story but it’s also not that difficult once you figure it out
I don’t have the time to write it all here right now, add me in game and I can help you there if you’d like.
I’d also suggest watching Helseths stream a lot, you’ll learn a lot there, I’m sure I did.

I have a question about shatter too: Do you guys shatter with F1 first or do you shatter F3 for vuln or sometimes even F2 for block proc instead of boonrip. Sure F3 → F1 makes F1 stronger, but sometimes I feel like I already could have used F1 once until I got a good F3 F1 combo ready. Also: do you only shatter with 3 clones or sometimes melee (IP) with 1 or 2?

greez pvp noob ^^’’

Xyonon.3987:

I have a question about shatter too: Do you guys shatter with F1 first or do you shatter F3 for vuln or sometimes even F2 for block proc instead of boonrip. Sure F3 -> F1 makes F1 stronger, but sometimes I feel like I already could have used F1 once until I got a good F3 F1 combo ready. Also: do you only shatter with 3 clones or sometimes melee (IP) with 1 or 2?

greez pvp noob ^^’’

For me, I don’t shatter F3 for vulnerability but for daze.
It’s depending on the situation for using 3 clones shatter or 1-2 clones.

I mainly use F1 for damage. I very, very rarely use F3 before it for the vulnerability.
I do use F3 for vulnerability, but not to stack it for my mind wrack. I use it to allow my team to take tanky targets down easier.
F1 is your damage skill
F2 purpose is not damage, it’s simply there for boon rip. You can also use it after ele leaves water for confusion damage, but mainly it’s for boon rip and boon rip only.
F3 is for interrupting (stomps, resurrections, elite skills, banner ect), very rarely do you use it for vulnerability, I know for a fact Supcutie doesn’t use it for it ever but I find myself doing so before my team collapses on 1 enemy (I’d usually use it on a tanky target, not really on squishies, but then I’d make sure to keep chaos storm and illusionary wave for interrupts and interrupts only until I get F3 back)
F4 is the ‘oh kitten’ button and only that. Use it to counter real damage that you can not avoid in any other way. Cool pro tip is that it also removes boons when you use it and applies confusion.

Steinpilz.5078:

Swish.2463:

After they burn two dodges in a row

What are the best ways to force a dodge?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Your problem is you’re not bringing the right tools for the job. Staff/GS Shatters? They know exactly what you’re about and what’s coming.

In contrast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55t0vzyvyA

Do you use the standard 2-2-0-0-6 build or is your build different?

Best ways to force out dodges hmm…

I would say you can easily bait one maybe two with a mock burst aka using f2 and quickly setting up more clones. Anyone worth their salt knows that a shatter will hurt and will usually throw away a dodge on the least potent one you can throw at them.

Phantasms are also great for pushing dodges as their attacks do hurt a lot. A favorite combo of mine has been to use f2 and then summon izerker while setting up a clone or two. 8 of 10 times my mind wrack is about to land on a helpless foe.

Something else useful is your teammates. They cause a lot of dodges and movement as well and you can easily piggyback off their efforts. If you notice your warrior has a foe knocked down with his hammer, then summon a phantasm on that foe and increase their panic and likelihood of making a bad or wrong move. It’s mistakes on the opposing side that let you do your work.

Hey Stein what weapons are you running? And are you running standard shatter?

What you got caught with is Illusionary Leap (Sword 3) into Blurred Frenzy(sword 2) into Shatter. The sword leap immobilizes and creates a clone, and the rest is clockwork.

Shatters work best the closer you are to an opponent, so you’ll often want to get into melee-range before activating them. Even you + 1 clone can be devastating since each shatter hits for over 2k. For a read on how they work and when to use them check the below link

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Lyssa-s-Grimoire-The-Mesmer-Handbook/first#post2916350

Landing shatters can be difficult without a sword or other form of immobilize, but dodging into your shatters can often help. (but can be a bad habit if you over rely on it)

Chaos Archangel.5071:

…
What you got caught with is Illusionary Leap (Sword 3) into Blurred Frenzy(sword 2) into Shatter. The sword leap immobilizes and creates a clone, and the rest is clockwork.
…

That is a textbook move. Of course, seasoned players know to expect it.

Yeah, I was answering the question of:

Steinpilz.5078:

But when I have mesmers as opponents they always manage to immobilize & shatter me in an instant.
How do you do that?

watch the boons, shatter when their protection is down. So either at the start before they have protection up or wait the boon out. When they have 5-6 boons don’t waste your shatter.
As for what other mesmer do to you. sword 3 + shatter is somewhat standard but easy to counter with 1 phase retreat. Any one who run a sword is somewhat naked after that shatter combo , burst in their face right then :P

they use stow weapon to speed things up on some skills or it could just be me it seemed to take forever to cast i leap till i started stowing during the cast

unlucky.9285:

they use stow weapon to speed things up on some skills or it could just be me it seemed to take forever to cast i leap till i started stowing during the cast

I may be mistaken, but I think things run better when you have over 100fps.

I get 60-70 on most maps, but on courtyard I can get up to 120 and I feel like it’s faster to pull off combos. But it could just be a placebo.

If not. TIME FOR US TO UPGRADE =D lol

But yes stow is a factor on some skills, I may be a mistaken but I have not noticed to much of a difference with i-leap into swap.