Guild Wars 2

does the mesmer is the only one how can proc slow consistently ?
wih the gm trait which proc every 3rd crit 2 sec slow it can be perma slow
isnt it?
if so isnt it too op?

Those numbers are final and won’t ever be changed – that’s totally what they said in the stream, believe me.
It’s hard to believe they will give us perma slow, at least it will be hard to apply in practice, except your enemy just lets you stack up all that crits.

messiah.1908:

does the mesmer is the only one how can proc slow consistently ?
wih the gm trait which proc every 3rd crit 2 sec slow it can be perma slow
isnt it?
if so isnt it too op?

Maybe if you’re in a super glassy build that’s doing nothing but spam GS auto and your opponent has zero condition removal and decides to let you spam GS auto.

If that’s the case, they deserve to be permanently slowed.

consider 50% chance crit with 0.5 sec AA activation so an average of 1 hit sec you can put 2 sec slow which means perma slow

Since we haven’t seen ALL the other professions specialties, we don’t know if we’re the only ones with that ability. I wouldn’t be surprised if Thieves and Engie’s have good access to slow.

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

does the mesmer is the only one how can proc slow consistently ?
wih the gm trait which proc every 3rd crit 2 sec slow it can be perma slow
isnt it?
if so isnt it too op?

Maybe if you’re in a super glassy build that’s doing nothing but spam GS auto and your opponent has zero condition removal and decides to let you spam GS auto.

If that’s the case, they deserve to be permanently slowed.

maybe for lockdown mesmer with fury and interrupt even if they cleanse the slow will come back at them in no time

doesnt it has a icd?

My question is whether it will proc from clone crits.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMBXALsBrQ~

maybe this build with s/p+gs

With a Slow skill, you don’t need ever a high defensive build. And actually no one use a defensive build on a mesmer, in spvp…
If the enemy is afflicted by slow you can evade easy it’s attack with dodge, and in some cases just by move away.
Slow will be the best spvp condition ever made. And if devs don’t change something the mesmer will be a very powerful class (more than actually is. And actually is one of the best classes in spvp, with a good dps build).

Silv.9207:

With a Slow skill, you don’t need ever a high defensive build.

Uhm.

Silv.9207:

If the enemy is afflicted by slow you can evade easy it’s attack with dodge, and in some cases just by move away.

…you do realize dodges are limited, right? Having the reaction to dodge something doesn’t mean you’re actually able to dodge it.

Silv.9207:

(more than actually is. And actually is one of the best classes in spvp, with a good dps build).

all of my wat

I know you’re not, but please say you’re just trolling…

It shouldn’t be OP any condi can be cleansed, and this one doesn’t even hurt. Yes you can apply it frequently, but once someone applies pressure that has to be responded to you will not have as much access to it.

Like quickness making skills last longer I’m fairly certain defensive skills will last longer as well depending on what it is.

Also 50-60% crit (pvp) is fairly standard every 3’rd hit isn’t that bad.

Even if a player could spec for perma slow, they’d be giving up stuff to support a gimmick that would wind up being a support role with a super soft single target CC.

The reality of a mesmer being able to constantly hit a target is fantasy. The amount of kiting/duking/disengaging we have to do the moment pressure is applied is incredibly high. So unless you’re free AA casting due to having a friend tie up your target, you can’t expect perma’slow. Even then, if you’re running with the freedom to freecast, there are better, more troubling builds you could bring under this setup. Anything with straight up burst, or high sustain DPS for example to just eliminate the target from the show immediately.

..and this only after the final numbers come out -_-u

i see it more as support cc/ lockdown mesmer and not pure dmg dealer

Fay.2357:

Silv.9207:

With a Slow skill, you don’t need ever a high defensive build.

Uhm.

Silv.9207:

If the enemy is afflicted by slow you can evade easy it’s attack with dodge, and in some cases just by move away.

…you do realize dodges are limited, right? Having the reaction to dodge something doesn’t mean you’re actually able to dodge it.

Silv.9207:

(more than actually is. And actually is one of the best classes in spvp, with a good dps build).

all of my wat

I know you’re not, but please say you’re just trolling…

Actually I play mesmer only a little, but I don’t need a defensive build because I’ve already clone swaps, hide, high range weapons, blur and teleport. Why I need more defence than that if the enemy hit me 50% slower? It’s dps is reduced by 50%!

We can not have always a dodge or vigor, but we have a lot of skills that interrupt the enemy, granting us the chance to do it even better, adding slow to the enemy that we interrupt, making it really suffer of slow for all the duration of the figth, while we can have quickness up very often.

And about the thing that Mesmer is one of the powerful classes in spvp, it’s true. You can not belive that, but I can deal 15k of damage to a single enemy before he can hit me, more or less in 5 seconds. (and more damage against a light user with berserker like a necro). Then I hide or clone swap (depending on the weapon I chose to use, if staff or sword/torch), or active blur with Sword, dealing damage, or Distortion with F4 (with the right build I’ve 4 sec of distortion and always 1 if I’ve no active clones) or simply active Moa Form.

Yes, mesmer is really a bad class. Never play mesmer. It’s a total failure. We need more buffs like constant projectile reflection, easy quickness and slow all the time on the enemy to survive because actually we can’t even kill a necro!

There’s some classes that can kill a mesmer “easy” but, ehy, you can’t pretend to be unkillable! And I’ve seen mesmers kill 2 enemy at the same time. There’s a video of a mesmer killing 4 enemy in spvp. They’re 100% noobs, but ehi, they’re in 4 vs 1. I’ve lost the link but if I find it I will post it here.

Seriously, if you think that the mesmer isn’t one of the best classes in spvp you have to learn to play.

And with that specializzation I hope that also nther classes obtain something like that because if not I really will make it my main tspvp class.

Silv.9207:

Fay.2357:

Silv.9207:

With a Slow skill, you don’t need ever a high defensive build.

Uhm.

Silv.9207:

If the enemy is afflicted by slow you can evade easy it’s attack with dodge, and in some cases just by move away.

…you do realize dodges are limited, right? Having the reaction to dodge something doesn’t mean you’re actually able to dodge it.

Silv.9207:

(more than actually is. And actually is one of the best classes in spvp, with a good dps build).

all of my wat

I know you’re not, but please say you’re just trolling…

Actually I play mesmer only a little, but I don’t need a defensive build because I’ve already clone swaps, hide, high range weapons, blur and teleport. Why I need more defence than that if the enemy hit me 50% slower? It’s dps is reduced by 50%!

We can not have always a dodge or vigor, but we have a lot of skills that interrupt the enemy, granting us the chance to do it even better, adding slow to the enemy that we interrupt, making it really suffer of slow for all the duration of the figth, while we can have quickness up very often.

And about the thing that Mesmer is one of the powerful classes in spvp, it’s true. You can not belive that, but I can deal 15k of damage to a single enemy before he can hit me, more or less in 5 seconds. (and more damage against a light user with berserker like a necro). Then I hide or clone swap (depending on the weapon I chose to use, if staff or sword/torch), or active blur with Sword, dealing damage, or Distortion with F4 (with the right build I’ve 4 sec of distortion and always 1 if I’ve no active clones) or simply active Moa Form.

Yes, mesmer is really a bad class. Never play mesmer. It’s a total failure. We need more buffs like constant projectile reflection, easy quickness and slow all the time on the enemy to survive because actually we can’t even kill a necro!

There’s some classes that can kill a mesmer “easy” but, ehy, you can’t pretend to be unkillable! And I’ve seen mesmers kill 2 enemy at the same time. There’s a video of a mesmer killing 4 enemy in spvp. They’re 100% noobs, but ehi, they’re in 4 vs 1. I’ve lost the link but if I find it I will post it here.

Seriously, if you think that the mesmer isn’t one of the best classes in spvp you have to learn to play.

And with that specializzation I hope that also nther classes obtain something like that because if not I really will make it my main tspvp class.

Words fail me.

…they don’t actually. That rarely actually happens. I’m just too tired to respond to…this.

Fay.2357:

Words fail me.
…they don’t actually. That rarely actually happens. I’m just too tired to respond to…this.

I can’t count how many exaggerations he has in his argument. I’m sure mesmer can run 6/6/6/6/6. But the best part I love is he start the argument by saying he barely played it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

So much wrong… So much exaggeration…

Bro if mes is so strong why is it not even meta? Oh right it’s OP low end PvP vs bads who don’t know how to counter it, and are probably still learning how to doge, or vs players who get overwhelmed/lost in clones. <- the entire class does not need to be held back because of its “it’s ONLY OP vs bads” status. Which is the state it’s been in for a LOOONG time.

Mes requires A LOT of (easily avoidable) moves to get somewhat comparable damage to thief that ultimetly still falls short, and unlike thief or other glass builds like Ele and medi guard, mes has to actually set up to do damage!

Maybe mes would be OP if EVERY BUILD had to set up as much as mes has to and is as vulnerable if whiffed burst.

“But ranged pressure!” Every class except maybe guardian can apply better ranged presssure! And that’s a non issue if you don’t need LoS and can go through walls. Lol

“But hard defensive options!” (Evades/full blocks/invuln/immune. Aside from normal doge ofc) Mes has 2 like most builds. Distortion which kills your momentum and removes your damage resource for a long c/d, and blurred frenzy which roots you. That’s only presuming your not double ranged shatter. Regardless EVERY OTHER BUILD IN GAME objectively does not give up as much momentum as a mesmer does to use defensive skills. As an example to how far apart mes is Ranger and Thief both with S/D is one weapon set that alone has more evaded (that actually can apply pressure) than an entire Mesmer’s ars – enal (overly sensitive filter)

“But stealth!” If you cannot play around one 30 sec c/d – 3 second cloak and maybe one long cast cloak on 90 sec c/d than clearly something is wrong with you.
The buffs coming with specializations are exactly what mes needs to be viable, and everything including Chrono’s slow every 3rd crit is justified.

Silv.9207:

Fay.2357:

Silv.9207:

With a Slow skill, you don’t need ever a high defensive build.

Uhm.

Silv.9207:

If the enemy is afflicted by slow you can evade easy it’s attack with dodge, and in some cases just by move away.

…you do realize dodges are limited, right? Having the reaction to dodge something doesn’t mean you’re actually able to dodge it.

Silv.9207:

(more than actually is. And actually is one of the best classes in spvp, with a good dps build).

all of my wat

I know you’re not, but please say you’re just trolling…

Actually I play mesmer only a little, but I don’t need a defensive build because I’ve already clone swaps, hide, high range weapons, blur and teleport. Why I need more defence than that if the enemy hit me 50% slower? It’s dps is reduced by 50%!

We can not have always a dodge or vigor, but we have a lot of skills that interrupt the enemy, granting us the chance to do it even better, adding slow to the enemy that we interrupt, making it really suffer of slow for all the duration of the figth, while we can have quickness up very often.

And about the thing that Mesmer is one of the powerful classes in spvp, it’s true. You can not belive that, but I can deal 15k of damage to a single enemy before he can hit me, more or less in 5 seconds. (and more damage against a light user with berserker like a necro). Then I hide or clone swap (depending on the weapon I chose to use, if staff or sword/torch), or active blur with Sword, dealing damage, or Distortion with F4 (with the right build I’ve 4 sec of distortion and always 1 if I’ve no active clones) or simply active Moa Form.

Yes, mesmer is really a bad class. Never play mesmer. It’s a total failure. We need more buffs like constant projectile reflection, easy quickness and slow all the time on the enemy to survive because actually we can’t even kill a necro!

There’s some classes that can kill a mesmer “easy” but, ehy, you can’t pretend to be unkillable! And I’ve seen mesmers kill 2 enemy at the same time. There’s a video of a mesmer killing 4 enemy in spvp. They’re 100% noobs, but ehi, they’re in 4 vs 1. I’ve lost the link but if I find it I will post it here.

Seriously, if you think that the mesmer isn’t one of the best classes in spvp you have to learn to play.

And with that specializzation I hope that also nther classes obtain something like that because if not I really will make it my main tspvp class.

Pyro go get a compress, I can help with this. If we rank the best classes based on their frequency of use in tournament play we get a top four. Elementalist, Guardian, Thief, Warrior, you decide the number one. So whatever class is the fifth best class is at a 60 percent, (assuming each class on a five person team is unique). Any class that ranks 6-8 is failing.

Yes, I play only sometimes mesmers, just some tournaments a day with my friends.
But why a mesmer noob like me can kill a large amount of classes or builds but mesmer pro gamers like you can’t?
Am I the only one in the entire tspvp world that find always noob players to fight or it’s the mesmer that is a good class?
The best class ever? No, shure it’s not. But it’s a very good class. One of the best classes I’ve ever try. I don’t play it frequently only because it’s a class that if well used can kill a enemy without any problem, expecially in 1vs1 or 2vs2.
- Very high damage easy to do (a simple rotation and you spam 3 cones and blast your enemy down with the GS at range, or add shatter damage with your pg, because you can obtain the shatter effetc also on you and teleport away with Staff skills if you need or be untouchable with the sword skill 2 and then hide and flee with torch)
- Good survavibility (hide, clones, distortion/blur, teleport, moa form)
- Ranged damage, because with GS, clones and shatter you don’t need to be near the enemy to deal all your damage
- Condi swap with boons on the enemy with a simpe utility skill (and if you want to live longer you can chose the trait that every shatter clean a condition, but actually no one use it)

What can you ask more? To be totally unkillable?
You will obtain Quickness, Slow and Projectile Reflection almost always up at the release of HoT!
Actually a mesmer is a very good class. Hard to play, with high risks, but that can deal high damage and survive easy if you need, also while in berserker build.

If the mesmer isn’t already a meta class it will be soon but it’s still a very good class powerfull in damage and hard to kill.

You know, Silv sorta has a point.

Mesmers are pretty good in low-mid tier PvP. It’s not the class, but the cele meta and thieves that keep us down.

If you wanna see a class with lousy skills/mechanics go take a gander at Necro.

@Silv: your opinion may change if you go play a thief though =P

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Mesmers are pretty good in low-mid tier PvP. It’s not the class, but the cele meta and thieves that keep us down.

Not exactly. Mesmers are great in low-tier PvP because bad players have monumental difficulties against mesmer purely on the basis of how our mechanics work. However, anyone that is somewhat experienced in PvP won’t have this massive problem, and will see mesmers not as some impossibly op obstacle in their way.

At any rate, I could obviously go through that post and show why each his points are, at best, momentarily flirting with reality, but it’s reaaaaly not worth my effort.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You know, Silv sorta has a point.

Mesmers are pretty good in low-mid tier PvP. It’s not the class, but the cele meta and thieves that keep us down.

If you wanna see a class with lousy skills/mechanics go take a gander at Necro.

@Silv: your opinion may change if you go play a thief though =P

Kitten it Chaos you had me and then you had to add that part in at the end about necros. What necros have/had was lousy traits. I don’t see anything wrong with their skills or mechanics.

There will also be this thing called Resistance.

Personally I feel like quickness of shatter will be the best trait for shatter related pvp builds for that slot just because quickness is so useful for everything from stoping to rezzing to getting a burst in faster. Lost time could be really strong too, but I have my doubts of picking it over seize the moment, mostly because you need to be offensive to proc slow with lost time, when you’ll likely most need it when trying to be defensive (ie juking with staff) and it’ll be a lot harder to maintain the slow, and it doesn’t bring too much utility in teamfights compared to the quickness. I like how you get the choice between slowing others and speeding yourself up though. Lost time+danger time could be good for PvE though.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You know, Silv sorta has a point.

Mesmers are pretty good in low-mid tier PvP. It’s not the class, but the cele meta and thieves that keep us down.

If you wanna see a class with lousy skills/mechanics go take a gander at Necro.

@Silv: your opinion may change if you go play a thief though =P

Kitten it Chaos you had me and then you had to add that part in at the end about necros. What necros have/had was lousy traits. I don’t see anything wrong with their skills or mechanics.

Its hard to explain when I don’t play the class, but browse the necro forums for a bit and you’ll see that they’re really struggling to remain relevant. Both in PvE and PvP.

- Necros are the condition class.. But their condis are outshined by others.

- Power builds rely on life blast spam and… Downed state spam.

- Death Shroud, their very class mechanic, limits them because of the way life force is generated and managed. Also, anet condescendingly claims that no necros have “gotten it” yet with ds so they don’t wanna change it because there’s some super secret alternative playstyle no one has discovered apparently. (I wish I had the link to that red post)

And so far they’re the only class forum that seems rather depressed about their trait revamps, like total opposite of our reaction.

Necro has been in a poor state for a while. Cool class and it can work, but really struggles to find a purpose.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Kitten it Chaos you had me and then you had to add that part in at the end about necros. What necros have/had was lousy traits. I don’t see anything wrong with their skills or mechanics.

THE MOST EPIC DEV-COMMENT!
(The link Chaos lost, I stole it from him )

JonPeters.5630:

Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.

~Offtopic:

Not (only, as Blood Magic line is.. well.. useless..) traits, it’s THE class mechanic.
“We” don’t have any scaling defense, as Anet says that everything can be facetanked by DS.
Let’s see:
Spectral Armor has 1 sec ICD on LF gain, not scaling. (Almost all class can hit you once every second even in a 1-on-1, so the other player’s attacks will not generate LF.)
Same with Spectral Walk.
No (easy) access to Vigor/Endurance regen, less dodge.
No (easy) access to high-uptime Protection.
No block/invul/evade.
No disengage ability. ( Summon Flesh Wurm must be used beforehand, has a long CD, can be killed fast.. No other blink/teleport, no stealth.)
And our allies can’t even heal us while using our “defensive mechanic”. The trait which allows “regen” in DS is just plain garbage, has the ~same numbers as Regeneration buff.

“Most necro builds” have enough dps, the problem is that anything bigger than 1v1 is a disadvantage to the necro if the enemies are not kittens/quaggans (so they are focusing the necro).
Every other “zerker class” has some “scaling” defense. Invuls/blocks (guardian anyone?), “dmg-resistance” (warrior stance/ranger signet), high-uptime of vigor/evades..

And not long ago they even nerfed the DS-skill usage as now you can’t channel DS #4 when you lost all your LF, it’ll simply get interrupted.
(A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away DS was working as an ~Aegis, you could negate the last hit completely when you reached 0 LF, now it’ll hit your “real hp” with the remaining amount afaik.)

And then the long cast-times are just the extra gift for every build which can CC the necro.
The healing skill is really good, maybe the only “scaling” defensive skill (as it’ll cleanse every condition and heal more if you had more), though with the long cast-time and no (easy) stability/invul it’s not that hard to rupt.

I have the feeling I’m at the average-below average bracket in spvp, where power-necro can wreck enemies when played against the not-so-good players, but when I get a competent team as enemies..

The most “fun” spike I got was a Moa -> Magnet -> 3 sec immob from the Mesmer-Engi-Thief trio 1 sec after the fight started at mid

~Ontopic:
Perma slow is nice, but I fear there’ll be some ICD, and don’t forget, Mesmers are not supposed to get hit, that’s the Necro’s “job”, they would benefit a lot more from it. (Well, ignoring Lockdown-ish mesmers, as we’ll love Slow.)

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

You know, Silv sorta has a point.

Mesmers are pretty good in low-mid tier PvP. It’s not the class, but the cele meta and thieves that keep us down.

If you wanna see a class with lousy skills/mechanics go take a gander at Necro.

@Silv: your opinion may change if you go play a thief though =P

Kitten it Chaos you had me and then you had to add that part in at the end about necros. What necros have/had was lousy traits. I don’t see anything wrong with their skills or mechanics.

Its hard to explain when I don’t play the class, but browse the necro forums for a bit and you’ll see that they’re really struggling to remain relevant. Both in PvE and PvP.

- Necros are the condition class.. But their condis are outshined by others.

- Power builds rely on life blast spam and… Downed state spam.

- Death Shroud, their very class mechanic, limits them because of the way life force is generated and managed. Also, anet condescendingly claims that no necros have “gotten it” yet with ds so they don’t wanna change it because there’s some super secret alternative playstyle no one has discovered apparently. (I wish I had the link to that red post)

And so far they’re the only class forum that seems rather depressed about their trait revamps, like total opposite of our reaction.

Necro has been in a poor state for a while. Cool class and it can work, but really struggles to find a purpose.

Necro was/is my main along with mesmer for the longest time, and the reaper traits don’t excite me as much as the chronomancer. Basically because in a power build, the shouts look pretty meh compared to wells and offer no support and not that much damage, while the elite shout looks cool but is overshadowed by lich form still being useful. I can’t see myself using GS in pvp because its slow as molasses, and it doesn’t look like it hits hard enough to compensate for that slowness, like life blast does.

I can get behind the idea of reaper shroud, but only as long as its damage with death perception isn’t far behind vanilla DS’s damage. The main thing I’m glad for is more stability access, but theres still no great way to really disengage or avoid focus fire, which sucks. I’m afraid the necro will never be more than a passiveprocindownstatemancer unless the condi cleanse meta changes.

Perhaps its better if I said they are good in theory. But they need to be balanced correctly. That doesnt inherently make them lousy. Like spectral wall is a good skill, It should destroy projectiles though.