Guild Wars 2

First thing is first: Traits are being reworked so that you must pick 3 traitlines to specialize in and can go all the way to grandmaster for all three lines. This means we can easily have a build specced in Domination, Dueling, and Chaos.

Halting Strike, Shattered Concentration, Confounding Suggestions (or Power Block), Deceptive Evasion, Furious Interruption, Bountiful Interruption, & Chaotic Interruption all in one build!

So from the get-go we’re seeing a massive buff to Lockdown build versatility without even having to grab the expansion. This also means that Shatter builds can now grab some lockdown traits. Your standard 4/4/0/0/6 can now also grab Confounding suggestions/power block, and Furious Interruption.

Considering our Chronomancer* tree is almost guaranteed to have some nice new lockdown/interrupt traits involving Slow/Quickness, I’m seeing the potential for atleast three viable lockdown build specializations:

Dom / Dueling / Chaos – Dueling / Chaos / Chrono – Dom / Dueling / Chrono

And that is just considering what we know now. We’ve been told about some traits being merged, which opens up opportunities for Manipulations, Glamours, Signets, and Mantras, and some traits may become baseline abilities. If DE becomes baseline, I see no reason not to spec into Chaos, Chrono, and Domination.

As of now, I see the trait changes being a bigger buff to Lockdown than shatter. Since most builds end up going 4, 4, 6 it is pretty awesome that we’ll be able to fully max out these skill trees. With traits no-longer granting stats I have no idea what is going to happen to boon/condition duration, since both our 4/4/6 lockdown and 6/4/4 builds benefit greatly from the duration increases but all in all I’m seeing a lot of potential for lockdown to rise in prominence in the future.

One thing that does kind of bother me, though, is that I’m thinking we’ll see a large influx of lockdown players. While the style getting more representation is awesome, a small selfish part of me always enjoyed the uniqueness that comes with playing lockdown, being so different from shatter and condi. On the bright side, with so much potential build diversity down the road I’m hoping (or pipedreaming) the meta expands to allow for more build variety, even among similar builds.

Personally, I’ll be running with the Dueling, Chaos, Chrono specs first. What are you looking forward to most as a lockdown Mesmer?

(* = There has been no official confirmation that Mesmer specialization is Chronomancer, but judging by the abilities teased it is highly likely.)

Aye, definitely something to look into as soon as we are given the information :-)

Don’t forget you’ll likely have a lower cooldown on Diversion as well … so more daze! :-)

Will be interesting to see what they do with Domination -line. There’s so many good traits.
I guess they will drop one adept major to minor and get rid of Illusion of Vulnerability.

not sure if I follow you chaos.

Our Pool of Traits is being slashed into less than half the current one.

we dont know whats getting removed, whats being “streamlined” into each other, where things are being moved.. what will stay and what passively added things we’ll be getting..

After reading the blogpost my first thought involved an interrupted heal with 10s cd, while I autoattack with my might and quickness…

@Swish: We lose only 4 traits per traitline, some of them will just be combined others may just vanish. And I can see many that I would never use in the first place.

Why bother with Furious Interruption? Seems like having 3 Power Lock charges would be better to me.

LunarNacht.8913:

After reading the blogpost my first thought involved an interrupted heal with 10s cd, while I autoattack with my might and quickness…

@Swish: We lose only 4 traits per traitline, some of them will just be combined others may just vanish. And I can see many that I would never use in the first place.

what you see and I see and the player base Sees is typically not what Anet See’s nor are they often even remotely aware of it… What are obvious choices for us to remove might be the things that are complied and kept.

Unsure if we’ll be able to go all the way into each spec…

Dondagora.9645:

Unsure if we’ll be able to go all the way into each spec…

They specifically said we’ll be able to grab 3 Grandmasters. So instead of putting trait points, we choose the traitline we want. Since most mesmer builds only jump into 3 traitlines anyway, this is a potentially a pretty major buff to build variety. (sorry Phantasm builds. =[ )

@Swish: Anything that went 644 or 662 is now going to be a full 666. It isn’t very likely that they’ll remove working, effective traits rather than merge ineffective ones so it’s likely we’ll be in better shape than before. Our pool of traits aren’t being slashed, we’re gaining more Master traits, keeping the same amount of Grandmasters and I believe minors are the same.

6/x/6/x/6 with CS, CI, GM Minor IP and Imbued Diversion anyone?

Xaylin.1860:

6/x/6/x/6 with CS, CI, GM Minor IP and Imbued Diversion anyone?

Thinking more on the lines of 6/6/x/x/6 with Imbued Harmonious Suggestions. Many AoE daze/stun skills might be good fun. It’s finally a way to take good lockdown traits with traited Diversion.

If Deceptive Evasion becomes a baseline thing, I would absolutely run 60606. I’d forgo CS in Domination and go for Halting Strike, Shattered Concentration and Empowered Illusions. I’d see this is a great way to stick with GS/Staff.

However, a fun Condi variant with Staff/Scepter-Pistol could be 66006. CS in Domination, pistol traits and Harmonious Mantras in dueling, and Maim in Illusions. Yowza.

That reminds me. Shatterlock, which was 62006 will now be 66006 and much stronger.

It’ll essentially be a perfect blend of shatter and lockdown and finally tourney viable.. Except the meta will likely change dramatically. X.x

It’s so hard to think about this since we don’t know what will become of the other classes. Just think: Fresh Air or Diamond Skin will be added to the DD Elementalist build.

That being said, there’s going to be some great variety for Mesmers, and I really feel like it’s going to open up some new “meta” and even gear possibilities.

I’m currently running 6, 6, 0, 2 – Which is Phantrupt with Menders. Just sticking with this means that you’ve suddenly got a fully fledged Phantasm Interrupt build on the table as you get those phantasm benefits. That’s interesting. Not necessary (outside of moar phant damage) but certainly interesting.

While I’m slightly afraid of how unbalanced things will be with all these dramatic changes, I’m excited for so many new builds being available especially in reference to lockdown.

@MailMail:
Isn’t that a possibility any time just about anything changes? :-p

What’s nice is that GW2 moving in this direction should reduce the possible permutations that need to be looked into for builds which should then make it easier to balance.

So, yeah, this could seriously mess up balance … but many of us are already not quite happy with the current balance (see: Ele, Warrior, and Guard top of every meta … some classes in 1 or none) …

… this could hopefully make the task easier to handle for ArenaNet.

If nothing else … those among us that love to theorycraft may be in for some darn good times … like when the Mesmer forums were fresh and new and the game was just released.

Yes, as an avid theory crafter fanboy, I’m very excited at all the possibilities here!! While there will be a plethora of interrupt builds, I’m even more excited to try out weird builds that might incorporate Bountiful Disillusionment. Or even the possibility of taking on Domination, Inspiration and Dueling for all the Mantra traits… So much on the table.

I think I’d for sure be trying out Imbued Diversion, CS and Harmonious Mantras with sword/focus+GS. So many AOE interrupts/stuns.

“I’m personally excited about a grandmaster trait that has the power to grant my character a defiance bar!”

And now, rather than just our trait being passively useless, one of our enemies will be able to make all our cc useless… It’s a hard life….

Dondagora.9645:

Xaylin.1860:

6/x/6/x/6 with CS, CI, GM Minor IP and Imbued Diversion anyone?

Thinking more on the lines of 6/6/x/x/6 with Imbued Harmonious Suggestions. Many AoE daze/stun skills might be good fun. It’s finally a way to take good lockdown traits with traited Diversion.

Nice choice, too. However, combining CS, CI and ID will force you’re opponent to use both, stunbreak and condition removal. Just using a stunbreak would mean that they still might be screwed because they remain immobilized, cripplied and chilled.

I’m a bit sad though that the new system will definitely destroy my Glamour build.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

They specifically said we’ll be able to grab 3 Grandmasters. So instead of putting trait points, we choose the traitline we want. Since most mesmer builds only jump into 3 traitlines anyway, this is a potentially a pretty major buff to build variety. (sorry Phantasm builds. =[ )

That was my reaction as well. I know some other classes liked to do 6/4/2/2 or 4/4/2/2/2 or whatever, but I haven’t seen any popular Mesmer builds that do that. (Mainly because we have some pretty build-defining Grandmaster traits.) So I think getting the equivalent of 4 extra trait points in exchange for being locked to only three trait lines is a big win for us.

@Swish: Anything that went 644 or 662 is now going to be a full 666. It isn’t very likely that they’ll remove working, effective traits rather than merge ineffective ones so it’s likely we’ll be in better shape than before.

I don’t know Ele too well, but I got the impression from reading Reddit comments that they seem pretty satisfied with what they saw of their trait changes. So that makes me cautiously optimistic for the Mesmer changes, too.

Who cares about lockdown? I only care about high DPS which is something mesmer completely lacks in

Zarathustra.1458:

“I’m personally excited about a grandmaster trait that has the power to grant my character a defiance bar!”

And now, rather than just our trait being passively useless, one of our enemies will be able to make all our cc useless… It’s a hard life….

Maybe if we break it, though, we’ll be rewarded extra for the effort.

Leonhardt.8164:

Who cares about lockdown? I only care about high DPS which is something mesmer completely lacks in

You’re not locking them down correctly.

There’s probably more room to speculate about Chronomancer with all the new information rapidly coming out these last few days.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this will be the new mandatory trait tree to go into for Interrupt builds considering it will most likely include the condition, Slow. Maybe pulsing fields with off-hand shield. Chrono-Chaos-Dueling will definitely be something to watch for. Now if only they buffed Furious Interruption to give 5s of fury in order to compensate for the furious part of the gm trait.

I’m also hoping to get a rework of Disrupter’s Sustainment, but I won’t hold my breath for that one…

Don’t think DE will be base line though. That will wreck phantasm build if all else remains the same. Unless they make it so that clones never replace phantasms. But that would also wreck clone death builds too.

But yes, I have long been waiting to see a boost in lockdown build. My mesmer can finally become a MESMER.

Let’s look at the possible combinations of different builds.

We currently have 5 traitlines that it seems pretty darn safe will be our Specializations plus our new Elite Specialization … so that’s 6 Specializations and you can choose 3 for your build.
6 choose 3 gives us … 20 possible combinations of Specializations.

Now, given any 3 specializations, we get to pick 1 of 3 traits … 9 times (Adept, Major, GM per Specialization).
I believe that gives us 3^9 which would be 19683 possible choices

So with 20 different combinations of 3 specializations and 19,683 possible trait combinations per 3 specializations … that gives us …

393,660 unique setups via the Specialization System.

That’s actually more than I was thinking we’d get out of this.
If you do the math for the current trait system, it is going to be less … but is almost 400,000 really “to limiting” :-p

Better get on that theorycrafting when we get the information about the specializations :-P

That’s not really accurate, Sebrent. We’re actually choosing 3 of 6 Specialisations and then choosing 1 of 3 traits within each tier of each spec.

Within each Spec, we have 27 potential combinations. We have 20 different ways to choose 3 out of 6 Specs. That combines to make 540 potential builds.

Which is still, you know, a lot. And it’ll probably still take a fair amount of experimentation to boil that down into the ~3 or so “meta” builds that everyone will use.

@tobascodagama:
Take a look again at the math, friend :-)

You get to pick:
1 of 3 Major Adept … 3 times (once per specialization)
1 of 3 Major Master … 3 times (once per specialization)
1 of 3 Major Grandmaster … 3 times (once per specialization)

That’s 1 of 3 that you pick 9 times.

You do them as a whole set because picking one set of 3 Specializations gives you a different set of 9 pick-3 choices to make.

There is a difference between:
Domination,Dueling,Chaos
– and -
Domination,Dueling,Inspiration.

In each set of 3 Specializations, you get to pick-3, 9 times. This is why it is 3^9.

It is 3^9 per set of 3 specializations.

You have 20 unique sets of 3 specializations.

So 20 * (3^9) = 20 * 19,683 = 393,660

Is that clearer?

My gut tells me the math is accurate, but it’s completely worthless.

Right now, there are far more possible permutations of trait setups. How many are viable?

It doesn’t matter how many ways you can jumble up your traits, it only matters whether those particular ways are even remotely worthwhile.

@Fay:
You could be right. You could be wrong. We’ll have to wait and see how it all comes together.

The math does give us a ceiling for the number of possibilities … which is substantial enough that we should hopefully have enough variety.

From there we can work on paring it down to what is “usable” and what is “backwards” :-p

… also, there are no guts in math … work the problem, sir! :-p

So much.. Math… Its.. Like my.. Kryptonite.

TL;DR: This expansion better open up at LEAST three new viable builds. Else fail. Right now there’s already proof that lots of change is in the air.

I think the first “tournament” build Ima try is Shatterlock (6/6/0/0/6 Confounding, Harmonious, with shatter traits) which is probably gonna end up extremely similar to the new meta shatter build.

Or sub in Chaos w/ Chaotic Interruption because the only thing worse than being stunned/dazed is being stunned/dazed AND immobilized … that’s often two separate cooldowns Combine it with the Might + Random Boon received from Bountiful Interruption so your shatters hurt even more

3 clone shatter with IP that interrupts will be 9 Might. Double-shatter Diversion -> Mind Wrack and you’ll have at least 13 Might. If you included Greatsword Mirror Blade you could get an additional 6 Might for a total of 19 Might.

So, in review … in the span of ~2 seconds you could

• Daze + Immobilize + Cripple/Chill/Blind the Target
• Stack tons of Vulnerability on Target (8+)
• Stack tons of Might on Yourself (from 0 to 19+ … yum).
• Blow them up with butterflies

If that isn’t sexy … you’re crazy.

Does anyone else think lockdown will become super popular now? I’m glad to see CI and Bountiful merged.
Granted. Not so happy about DE being a grandmaster and not a class mechanic. Oh well.

Dude.

Bruh.

… Bruh!!

With IP baseline, Lockdown will be the new Mesmer meta. Shatter builds now have very little reason to spec into illusions and CI was already RIGHT behind it.

I don’t usually make such grand claims, but DOM/DUEL/CHAOS will be the new tpvp Mesmer meta unless the CHRONO tree is glorious.

And with so MANY INTERUPTS.
I’m glad PB got a buff through halting strike so now it does something against theives.
And with all the condi that’s going to be spread by that build a hybrid could wreck a group

I actually didn’t hear of any direct lockdown buffs yet. What’s happening with halting/power block?

If I heard right they merged the two together. Now I could have heard wrong, but I don’t think I did. If that’s the case then taking PB is actually useful because you will be doing 2-3k in damage on interupt plus PB’s effects. Except on thieves which the skill cd doesn’t affect. They clarified that I remember. But still. Makes it worth looking into to I think.

And Confounding is now adept… You can grab all three traits and still nah shattered conditions.

Oh muh gawd.

Power Block was combined with Halting Strike. It also causes weakness. Interrupted skills have a cooldown of 15s. Does not affect skills with 0 cooldowns.

Super lockdown Mesmer for the win1

Going by Ross’s model, I’m imagining a DO DU/CHA ILL build with Master of Fragmentation[Imbued Diversion bundled in], using either DE or CI. With IP built in, things seem to open up a bit in this sense. Then, of course, all the rupt traits from Domination.

Hey Chaos, since IP is innate now, don’t you think Shatterlock is begging for a revival?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I don’t usually make such grand claims, but DOM/DUEL/CHAOS will be the new tpvp Mesmer meta unless the CHRONO tree is glorious.

Really looking forward to it. I’m a bit worried though that 6/6/6/0/0 might turn out to be the best spread for both, shatter and lockdown/interrupt builds. I’m actually more curious what kind of defensive/supportive/bunkery builds people will create.

Sebrent.3625:

@tobascodagama:
Take a look again at the math, friend :-)

What you’re missing is that

Dom Duel Insp
Duel Insp Dom
Insp Dom Duel
Duel Dom Insp
Insp Duel Dom

are all the exact same thing. So, 3^9 is completely incorrect. The actual calculation is (3^3) * (6 choose 3).

Holy CI buff!?!?!

I am definitely looking forward to that – merged CI and BI.

finaly gw1 mesmer is coming back with skill control and interrupts

i predict that the lockdown mesmer will be a thing in the new meta both power and interrupt. but probably very high skill cap of all classes and build.

all in all great changes in the air (also conditions when blind and interrupt etc..)

but DE in the grandmaster line…. but ok more blind and reflect and DD on 50% hp so…

I’m thinking if “Chronomancy” line (or whatever it will be called) has a lot of Slow access, I might run Chaos, Inspiration and that for a condition interrupt build.

Given clone death traits are no longer a thing, and given IP is default – I don’t feel duelling line will be necessary for me in that build. Ok the loss of sharper images would be unfortunate, but I could make up for that somehow…

I realize that some of this will most likely change, and I sure hope it does.

But I haven’t seen anyone comment on the Confounding Suggestions change. It shows the trigger chance as 100%. So EVERY daze is a stun??

One sentence they want to make the GW2 Mesmer a very high skill based class like in GW1. Then they give us something like that?

Wouldn’t this be better?

“When you interrupt a foe with a daze, the foe is stunned. Increased daze duration.”

And whats up with the 100% duration increase on PU? Apparently, ANet has an itching and it can only be scratched with “MORE STEALTH”.

Its really great that these trait changes on all the classes are basically “profession reviews”. They can fix things, clean up unused traits and really do something good. But I look at some of the things (particularly eng, thief, warrior) and really wonder if they even play this game at all?

Did I just break this thread?

I replied and now I don’t see ANY of the original posts?