The retaliation nerf was (just like the last time they said they changed retaliation) unspecified and not clear. They said that it would be reduced to sPvP levels. The problem with that statement is that retaliation isn’t reduced in sPvP. So…..I’ll wait until the patch rolls out, and test retaliation as I always do.
I suspect that it was actually a mistaken statement he made. My guess is that he meant to say there will be changes made to retaliation and confusion, and the retaliation change is the visual thing, not the damage part.
Oooo, the mantra and signet caught my interest, as well as fixing that clone aggroing mobs. That means I can use Deceptive Evasion without worrying the clone going after that one mob below or above me. XD
I hope there’s more bug fixes or buffs, especially making swiftness from Temporal Curtain stack with other swiftnesses.
soooo what condition does a mesmer have left then?none…ty anet! oh well be looking for a new class then or a new game.
See ya
The confusion nerf is a poor choice. It makes confusion (and glamour builds) pretty much completely useless in wvw now, since confusion does effectively no damage. That being said, mesmers are far from broken…removing 1 condition doesn’t destroy a class.
soooo what condition does a mesmer have left then?none…ty anet! oh well be looking for a new class then or a new game.
See ya
The confusion nerf is a poor choice. It makes confusion (and glamour builds) pretty much completely useless in wvw now, since confusion does effectively no damage. That being said, mesmers are far from broken…removing 1 condition doesn’t destroy a class.
Does not destroy a class no. But will destroy the very viable and not overpowered trait builds of many many Mesmer players. Which as a result could push players away from the class.
Except when that condition is one of the few real conditions the class have and part of a core build…
The other things dont sound too bad, but I think the confusion nerf will hit the Mesmer HARD (and to some degree, the engineer). I have zero condition damage (PVT) but even then, as a glamour build confusion is a vital part of doing damage. I would honestly just prefer if they altered it to work like burning or something, just add duration instead of stacking.
soooo what condition does a mesmer have left then?none…ty anet! oh well be looking for a new class then or a new game.
See ya
The confusion nerf is a poor choice. It makes confusion (and glamour builds) pretty much completely useless in wvw now, since confusion does effectively no damage. That being said, mesmers are far from broken…removing 1 condition doesn’t destroy a class.
I’m just concerned about wvw viability overall, though. Mesmers don’t have a lot of enticing options for aoe. They’re doing a terrible job of making scepter a viable weapon choice as well.
soooo what condition does a mesmer have left then?none…ty anet! oh well be looking for a new class then or a new game.
See ya
The confusion nerf is a poor choice. It makes confusion (and glamour builds) pretty much completely useless in wvw now, since confusion does effectively no damage. That being said, mesmers are far from broken…removing 1 condition doesn’t destroy a class.
well now im being forced to buy a whole set of new armor and forced to be a shatter mesmer which i don’t wanna be.i have no more condition dmg. no nothing. now i gotta safe a ton of gold to be able to play in wvw again as confusion is worth nothing and useless like it is in pvp.sry this just ruins it for me.
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
Is the confusion and retaliation just for wvw? I would really like to be able to use a torch darn it! I hope that maybe that is being looked at with these changes so it is more useful.
I can see the point of glamour builds being much, much less viable but standard condition/confusion builds should still have some level of viability. I think it’s going to be a matter of playing and seeing how it goes. But yeah, a day or so after the patch I think we’ll have a pretty good idea if confusion based builds are worth sticking with. Keep in mind this applies to engi’s too.
Is the confusion and retaliation just for wvw? I would really like to be able to use a torch darn it! I hope that maybe that is being looked at with these changes so it is more useful.
The changes won’t effect pve. That being said, they have pretty much killed confusion builds in wvw. I’m starting to wonder if they really are against zerging as they keep nerfing everything that would break up zergs.
I can see the point of glamour builds being much, much less viable but standard condition/confusion builds should still have some level of viability. I think it’s going to be a matter of playing and seeing how it goes. But yeah, a day or so after the patch I think we’ll have a pretty good idea if confusion based builds are worth sticking with. Keep in mind this applies to engi’s too.
yeah but engis have a ton of conditions left, we don’t. mesmers have nothing left. wvw and spvp is a whole different game.is a huge difference if u fight up to 10 enemies or 70+. now i have to be a shatter mesmer.Then anet needs to give us new conditions.
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
I can see the point of glamour builds being much, much less viable but standard condition/confusion builds should still have some level of viability. I think it’s going to be a matter of playing and seeing how it goes. But yeah, a day or so after the patch I think we’ll have a pretty good idea if confusion based builds are worth sticking with. Keep in mind this applies to engi’s too.
If they nerf it same as pvp we already know. Confusion builds are almost worthless in spvp and they will be in WvW too. If it happens I’m going to another class.
Since this update will make Mantras even more viable I will be revisiting my mantra build for pvp purposes and see what I can come up with. The current ones should work even better now as they stand of course(Especially the support one Panacea!) I also like that they mentioned that mantras still need some love and so it’s encouraging to know they will probably look into them more so in the future.
Since this update will make Mantras even more viable I will be revisiting my mantra build for pvp purposes and see what I can come up with. The current ones should work even better now as they stand of course(Especially the support one Panacea!) I also like that they mentioned that mantras still need some love and so it’s encouraging to know they will probably look into them more so in the future.
Hmmm… 20 mesmers in a zerg with superior runes of dwayna and restorative mantras spamming mantra of pain… could be very interesting.
This is what happens when Anet allowed PvE skills to be used in a PvP environment, this is going to be like GW1 all over, only this time we have a very small limited number of skills to use, with the AoE limit in place, it looks like they really want us to be running around zerg vs zerg, will be interesting to see what they do to other classes,
They should just bite the bullet now and completely separate WvW from PvE altogether.
So if they nerf confusion, are they going to do anything to the scepter to counter it? Its sub par now and hardly used.
With the confusion change, they’ll just make sword/x shatter builds even more prevalent.
I’ve been running a mantra setup for several months now, so I like the mantra changes. But I also like scepter, but its getting harder and harder to find a use for it.
Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.
Except when that condition is one of the few real conditions the class have and part of a core build…
The other things dont sound too bad, but I think the confusion nerf will hit the Mesmer HARD (and to some degree, the engineer). I have zero condition damage (PVT) but even then, as a glamour build confusion is a vital part of doing damage. I would honestly just prefer if they altered it to work like burning or something, just add duration instead of stacking.
I don’t get it. You’re a condition memser who runs no condition damage? Why don’t you ask P/V/T necromancers how well their condition builds do? Don’t complain about something not working before you’re not even bothering to see if it works in the first place.
well now im being forced to buy a whole set of new armor and forced to be a shatter mesmer which i don’t wanna be.i have no more condition dmg. no nothing. now i gotta safe a ton of gold to be able to play in wvw again as confusion is worth nothing and useless like it is in pvp.sry this just ruins it for me.
First of all, you’re not being forced into anything. I promise you there are more viable builds for mesmer than just confusion builds. Second of all, you’re jumping to conclusions when you assume this change will make confusion builds unplayable. Third of all, I promise you you can get gear for a new build with less than “a ton of gold”. Exotics are expensive; but believe it or not, one can be very effective in WvW with less than exotics.
My point in my original post is that ragequitting the class and/or game is a massive overreaction to a nerf of one mechanic.
That being said, I vehemently disagree with this change to confusion. People make the argument that confusion is balanced in spvp, but ignore the issue that it is in fact useless in spvp. The reason you see no confusion builds there is that confusion damage is so low that it’s completely ignorable. Now, they’ve made this the same in wvw. They completely destroyed one set of Mesmer builds, severely damaged the strength and viability of most Mesmer condition builds, and strongly decreased the possible auxiliary damage from Mesmer shatter builds (all while claiming mesmers are in a good place in the actual Mesmer portion).
I really can’t overemphasize how bad of a move this is. Confusion used to be one of the best mechanics in gw2, because it actually punished poor play. Now, it is once again irrelevant. No one needs to care about the purple swirly because the purple swirly won’t do any damage to them. This was a horrible change, and I’m monumentally disappointed in the dev team for rolling this change out.
Just goes to show how balancing on the small, vocal, and unskilled population of this game leads to poor choices.
Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.
yeah my ascended gear is useless now and all the armor =80g is worthless now i am forced to buy new armoe with gold i dont have ty anet.Rabid armor as a mesmer is useless now!
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
My point in my original post is that ragequitting the class and/or game is a massive overreaction to a nerf of one mechanic.
That being said, I vehemently disagree with this change to confusion. People make the argument that confusion is balanced in spvp, but ignore the issue that it is in fact useless in spvp. The reason you see no confusion builds there is that confusion damage is so low that it’s completely ignorable. Now, they’ve made this the same in wvw. They completely destroyed one set of Mesmer builds, severely damaged the strength and viability of most Mesmer condition builds, and strongly decreased the possible auxiliary damage from Mesmer shatter builds (all while claiming mesmers are in a good place in the actual Mesmer portion).
I really can’t overemphasize how bad of a move this is. Confusion used to be one of the best mechanics in gw2, because it actually punished poor play. Now, it is once again irrelevant. No one needs to care about the purple swirly because the purple swirly won’t do any damage to them. This was a horrible change, and I’m monumentally disappointed in the dev team for rolling this change out.
Just goes to show how balancing on the small, vocal, and unskilled population of this game leads to poor choices.
pretty much this.i do feel like ragequitting but i love my mesmer. i spent hours and hours of getting all the gear and all the ascended gear and all for nothing as anet destroyed all that!at least give mesmers other conditions that i can build up to. a mesmer should be able to have a condition build too!seriously another 60-80 gold for new sigils, runes and armor?how is that fair?
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
Care to explain to me why rabid armor is useless to mesmers?
Because the only real damaging conditions we will be able to apply will be Burns and Bleeds, with very limited ability to stack either on a target? AFAIK, Winds of Chaos and Sharper Images are the only methods of putting a bleed on a target, and we only have Winds of Chaos and The Prestige for Burning.
Maybe if they made it so Illusionary Elasticity affected Clones properly we’d be fine, but as it stands those simply aren’t enough methods of applying conditions to make Condition Damage a worthwhile stat.
Care to explain to me why rabid armor is useless to mesmers?
rabid is more for condition…which condition do we have left after confusion is useless now?most of the other builds im looking at are a complete ne set of armor,runes and sigils.
Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
Because the only real damaging conditions we will be able to apply will be Burns and Bleeds, with very limited ability to stack either on a target? AFAIK, Winds of Chaos and Sharper Images are the only methods of putting a bleed on a target, and we only have Winds of Chaos and The Prestige for Burning.
Maybe if they made it so Illusionary Elasticity affected Clones properly we’d be fine, but as it stands those simply aren’t enough methods of applying conditions to make Condition Damage a worthwhile stat.
Hmmm… 20 mesmers in a zerg with superior runes of dwayna and restorative mantras spamming mantra of pain… could be very interesting.
Restorative Mantras is already extremely effective as is with the current cast time. Have a look at Hecate Build the last video demonstrates mantra healing at a gate in WvW. This is while using a damage build not a support build (Which if you are interested in check out the Panacea Build) and with the decreased cast time you will be able to do this even more effectively (Do note that the heal is limited to 5 people like with most AOE). As a mesmer big into mantra builds I absolutely love this decrease in cast time.
Care to explain to me why rabid armor is useless to mesmers?
Because the only real damaging conditions we will be able to apply will be Burns and Bleeds, with very limited ability to stack either on a target? AFAIK, Winds of Chaos and Sharper Images are the only methods of putting a bleed on a target, and we only have Winds of Chaos and The Prestige for Burning.
Maybe if they made it so Illusionary Elasticity affected Clones properly we’d be fine, but as it stands those simply aren’t enough methods of applying conditions to make Condition Damage a worthwhile stat.
Yeah if they’re going to nerf confusion that much then at least make staff clones attacks bounce like trident so we have a better way of applying other conditions.
Because the only real damaging conditions we will be able to apply will be Burns and Bleeds, with very limited ability to stack either on a target? AFAIK, Winds of Chaos and Sharper Images are the only methods of putting a bleed on a target, and we only have Winds of Chaos and The Prestige for Burning.
Maybe if they made it so Illusionary Elasticity affected Clones properly we’d be fine, but as it stands those simply aren’t enough methods of applying conditions to make Condition Damage a worthwhile stat.
So Confusion is being removed from the game?
Yes…?
Take a look at sPvP. Confusion simply isn’t used there, because it is terrible. Will it still deal damage? Yeah, sure. Will that damage amount to anything? No, it will not.
Tell me what would happen if they took Guardian’s Burning and reduced it’s damage to half. Would you still be willing to use Condition Damage gear on a Guardian?
(Not that you should use Condition Damage gear on a Guardian, but it’s a solid example since that is their main condition as Confusion is ours.)
I don’t have any +ConditionDamage yet my Confusion does huge amounts of damage. That’s clearly not right. Blanket reducing it to 50% damage would punish those who do spec +CD too much though, imo the scaling/+CD contribution needs to be changed, so that the damage is very punishing for those who have high +CD and negligible for those like me who have 0 +CD.
Sephire Blackrose
- A crummy Mesmer on Piken Square
I don’t have any ConditionDamage yet my Confusion does huge amounts of damage. That’s clearly not right. Blanket reducing it to 50% damage would punish those who do spec +CD too much though, imo the scaling/CD contribution needs to be changed, so that the damage is very punishing for those who have high +CD and negligible for those like me who have 0 +CD.
I don’t have any ConditionDamage yet my Confusion does huge amounts of damage. That’s clearly not right. Blanket reducing it to 50% damage would punish those who do spec +CD too much though, imo the scaling/CD contribution needs to be changed, so that the damage is very punishing for those who have high +CD and negligible for those like me who have 0 +CD.
Now this is a nerf that actually makes sense.
I was about to say basically this, but instead I’ll just quote you.
If they reduced the base but kept the scaling more or less the same I would be a very happy Mesmer.
Take a look at sPvP. Confusion simply isn’t used there, because it is terrible.
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but PvP isn’t WvW. Just as WvW isn’t PvE. Not all builds are viable in all arenas; ArenaNet has stated as much. A full-on, 100% confusion-spamming build might take too long to get rolling in PvP while still being perfectly viable in WvW.
Tell me what would happen if they took Guardian’s Burning and reduced it’s damage to half. Would you still be willing to use Condition Damage on a Guardian.
(Not that you should use Condition Damage on a Guardian, but it’s a solid example since that is their main condition as Confusion is ours.)
That’s not quite an apples to apples comparison. Guardian’s only dot is Burning, mesmer’s have access to three (four if you count Confusion).
I’m not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but I think we all – deep down inside – know a nerf was called for. Whether or not this is the proper way to do it, I can’t say. Since we don’t have the full patch notes neither can you, for the time being. It may very well prove to be overkill on ANet’s part. But let’s dial back the “the end is nigh” hysteria and wait and see how things play out.
Take a look at sPvP. Confusion simply isn’t used there, because it is terrible.
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but PvP isn’t WvW. Just as WvW isn’t PvE. Not all builds are viable in all arenas; ArenaNet has stated as much. A full-on, 100% confusion-spamming build might take too long to get rolling in PvP while still being perfectly viable in WvW.
Tell me what would happen if they took Guardian’s Burning and reduced it’s damage to half. Would you still be willing to use Condition Damage on a Guardian.
(Not that you should use Condition Damage on a Guardian, but it’s a solid example since that is their main condition as Confusion is ours.)
That’s not quite an apples to apples comparison. Guardian’s only dot is Burning, mesmer’s have access to three (four if you count Confusion).
I’m not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but I think we all – deep down inside – know a nerf was called for. Whether or not this is the proper way to do it, I can’t say. Since we don’t have the full patch notes neither can you, for the time being. It may very well prove to be overkill on ANet’s part. But let’s dial back the “the end is nigh” hysteria and wait and see how things play out.
The problem is confusion is the only viable condition a mesmer has for pvp. Bleed and fire is kittenedly unreliable. Why? Because there’s vulnerability in staff which makes stacking bleed or fire redundant
Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton.
This. so much. Every patch it seems like they want us to be giant zergs more and more. I very VERY rarely die from confusion in WvW, and I sometimes choose to forgo condition cleanse when I’m in a zerg. When I see a large stack on me, I just run back into the zerg for 8 seconds and wait for it to drop. I run around glamours, and if I’m in one, i try my best to stay in it. It’s not that hard -_-. If anything the 33% confusion duration needed to be nerfed
I don’t have any ConditionDamage yet my Confusion does huge amounts of damage. That’s clearly not right. Blanket reducing it to 50% damage would punish those who do spec +CD too much though, imo the scaling/CD contribution needs to be changed, so that the damage is very punishing for those who have high +CD and negligible for those like me who have 0 +CD.
Spot on, but anet have never made more subtle changes like that its always just bang an outright nerf.
BTW I can’t stomach watching the vid, do any of the participants actually raise objections to the change?
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I don’t have any ConditionDamage yet my Confusion does huge amounts of damage. That’s clearly not right. Blanket reducing it to 50% damage would punish those who do spec +CD too much though, imo the scaling/CD contribution needs to be changed, so that the damage is very punishing for those who have high +CD and negligible for those like me who have 0 +CD.
Spot on, but anet have never made more subtle changes like that its always just bang an outright nerf.
BTW I can’t stomach watching the vid, do any of the participants actually raise objections to the change?
The only thing that needs nerfing are their salaries.
