Guild Wars 2

Pyroatheist.9031:

My point in my original post is that ragequitting the class and/or game is a massive overreaction to a nerf of one mechanic.

That being said, I vehemently disagree with this change to confusion. People make the argument that confusion is balanced in spvp, but ignore the issue that it is in fact useless in spvp. The reason you see no confusion builds there is that confusion damage is so low that it’s completely ignorable. Now, they’ve made this the same in wvw. They completely destroyed one set of Mesmer builds, severely damaged the strength and viability of most Mesmer condition builds, and strongly decreased the possible auxiliary damage from Mesmer shatter builds (all while claiming mesmers are in a good place in the actual Mesmer portion).

I really can’t overemphasize how bad of a move this is. Confusion used to be one of the best mechanics in gw2, because it actually punished poor play. Now, it is once again irrelevant. No one needs to care about the purple swirly because the purple swirly won’t do any damage to them. This was a horrible change, and I’m monumentally disappointed in the dev team for rolling this change out.

Just goes to show how balancing on the small, vocal, and unskilled population of this game leads to poor choices.

You’re right ragequiting because of this is silly, I mean I’m still holding onto hope for my ele, engi, and ranger (I’m starting to think I have the kiss of death syndrome here…). There is still hope in mesmers yet even if it is pigeon holing a bit (and not nearly as bad as other classes). What I don’t like about this at all is as you’ve said they are rewarding poor play and ignoring the fact that sPvP dismisses confusion builds as terrible/useless. I am angry however that I’ve put time and gold into a confusion armor/weapon set that is now lost time and gold. I’d like to reclaim those if I could but I know won’t happen thus frustration.

Confusion didn’t need any kind of nerf whatsoever. What needed a nerf are Engineers that are able to put 10+ confusion and cover it up with 5+ other conditions so that you have absolutely no chance to remove it. If confusion is nerfed to sPvP levels then Engineers will just kill you slower with their 5+ other conditions and better scaled power damage (as they still do and always have in sPvP) while condition Mesmers will literally become a joke.

It is absolutely disappointing to see Anet make this decision and if whining on the forums is what it takes to make them act, maybe I’ll give them just that. It probably won’t even be me to be the first person to make a new thread to return confusion back to what it was after this patch takes place on the 30th.

ooh yea mantra buff! \m/ i might go back to 30/20/0/20 build now :p

Mantra cast time is now 2.75 sec from 3.25 seconds a .5 second reduction.

I had to watch the video because 2 7/5 is some form of abstract fraction?

Lol I thought that but then I questioned myself because it just seemed a weird way to say it

Godmoney.2048:

Mantra cast time is now 2.75 sec from 3.25 seconds a .5 second reduction.

I had to watch the video because 2 7/5 is some form of abstract fraction?

I fixed it sorry for the confusion He said 7 5 and understood it as 7/5 not seventy-five (I’m foreign so I guess I got a bit mixed up but that definitely makes far more sense than 7/5. Thought it was strange)

Meh. As I said on a WvW thread about this very subject: They would listen to the QQers. Thanks for reaming a good zerg-counter. Worst part is, if they’d went with a 25-33% drop, instead of half … it’d still punish your target, but not be OMGWTFBBQ powerful.

OTOH, the Signet change at least makes using my Condition Signet workable. Now, if we can get that bloody Vuln off of our Staves…

Can’t believe dev just destroyed a whole section of mesmer builds. They just made this a poorer game. They should have created a counter to it if they think it is too strong. that way there are counters to counters to counters… Instaed they took the lazy way out and just divide damage by two.

Game is getting poorer in variety with every nerf. If that’s the direction the devs is headed so be it.

sad to say.. when a game is free to play the only concern is getting new customers not holding old ones. nerf bat is very effective at making new customers happy when it comes to mesmers. they are a confusing class to fight if you are new to mmo or even just new to gw2 so nerfing the hell out of them is the only way this is going to play out.

zaxon.6819:

sad to say.. when a game is free to play the only concern is getting new customers not holding old ones.

Do you people actually believe this crap? Or are you just in such a state of anger that you don’t even realize what you’re typing?

darkace.8925:

zaxon.6819:

sad to say.. when a game is free to play the only concern is getting new customers not holding old ones.

Do you people actually believe this crap? Or are you just in such a state of anger that you don’t even realize what you’re typing?

I’m sure it’s just an overreaction. I’m also annoyed and saddened at the whole thief/war boon hate issue as my eng relies on boons just to get damage up. But hopefully, it’ll pass (esp since I already got quip on him >.<)

Wow, I was expecting some Mesmer love after the last update. Our pacing is just not that good outside of PvE. As in GW, skill lag just does us in. I don’t need a buff to damage, I just need a reduction is some of my cast times and cool downs. I really miss Fast Casting and the ability to actually make interrupts a viable skill set.

believe this crap. i can say from patch to patch i play less and less. i played gs/s/focus and greatsword got destroyed last patch. nerfing a whole specs damage 50 percent is crazy for a balance dev to do in any situation. retaliation is also cut in half. the game is less fun patch to patch and i do believe that. they are not adding things that make it more interesting or fun to play they make it worse to play.

zaxon.6819:

believe this crap. i can say from patch to patch i play less and less. i played gs/s/focus and greatsword got destroyed last patch. nerfing a whole specs damage 50 percent is crazy for a balance dev to do in any situation. retaliation is also cut in half. the game is less fun patch to patch and i do believe that. they are not adding things that make it more interesting or fun to play they make it worse to play.

I’m displeased as well with the upcoming patch, but kindly get your facts straight before spouting off. Retaliation is not nerfed by 50%. They said in the SotG that it will be lowered to sPvP levels, but retaliation functions exactly the same in sPvP as it does in WvW, so my best guess is that that was slip of the tongue.

Will they finally fix izerk’s damage with this patch?

so what you are saying about retaliation is that you(a player) knows more about the basics of the game then the person balancing it for pvp. super. and i guess i know why you are not more then “displeased” in that case since the spec you promote on every forum is a retaliation spec not a confusion spec.

i don’t wanna be forced to use sword and greatsword to deal at least a little dmg to players.i love my scepter but confusion was part of it so i am forced to play a new build that i don’t wanna play and have to relearn everything again and non of my skills im used to use are worth anything, my ascended gear is useless and have to spend like 60 to 80g to get the armor,the earrings, the weapons as i have to transmute EVERYTHING and this all because people QQ’d in forums about the ONLY condition we had. I speced into condition since i’ve started mesmer (which is 6 months gameplay 1700 hours)and of course everythng i worked for was towards condition. so 6months of grinding were worthless a waste of time and i should have never liked my character so i could at leat roll another class. now the mesmer is slowly turning into a weak warrior with no other skills than sword skills and a a few clones.

selan.8354:

now the mesmer is slowly turning into a weak warrior with no other skills than sword skills and a a few clones.

Again, I’m as kitten about this change as anyone else, and have explained in depth multiple times why. However, useless overexaggerative bullkitten like this is not helpful. Complain about what actually happened, not ridiculous stuff like that.

chuckle

I have to say though, even with the amount of ridiculous exaggeration that people like selan are putting out in these threads, they’re absolutely NOTHING compared to the ele whining about the RTL nerf. Just go and look at that thread, you’ll facepalm your way all the way back to the mesmer forums.

Pyroatheist.9031:

selan.8354:

now the mesmer is slowly turning into a weak warrior with no other skills than sword skills and a a few clones.

Again, I’m as kitten about this change as anyone else, and have explained in depth multiple times why. However, useless overexaggerative bullkitten like this is not helpful. Complain about what actually happened, not ridiculous stuff like that.

sry im just really upset and really broke atm so now idk how i will be able to get the gold for all this new stuff and i don’t know what build to get or anything and my abvssal scepter is not useful anymore. none of the nerfs of other classes has affected them so they were forced to change everything.their old builds were still vial.

selan.8354:

none of the nerfs of other classes has affected them so they were forced to change everything.their old builds were still vial.

While technically true, you wouldn’t know it by reading the elementalist forums. Go over there, read a few threads, laugh heartily at them, and you’ll feel a bit better.

Entropy.4732:

Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.

80g O_o geez, you got some really bad deals.

Pyroatheist.9031:

selan.8354:

none of the nerfs of other classes has affected them so they were forced to change everything.their old builds were still vial.

While technically true, you wouldn’t know it by reading the elementalist forums. Go over there, read a few threads, laugh heartily at them, and you’ll feel a bit better.

omg they are crying over this?yeah …makes me laugh

SpelignErrir.4263:

Entropy.4732:

Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.

80g O_o geez, you got some really bad deals.

nope actually before we finally got the rabid gear to wvw we had to buy the khilborn stuff (precision/toughness/cond) and they are very expensive and yes u get some of these through temples but yup expensive stuff right there.

Yeah it sucks. Yes, if balance was needed there were plenty of far better ways to do it. I’ve been running a sceptre/torch shatter confusion build since launch and currently have no alts for all that time, so nobody feels this more than me.

Three thoughts. Firstly I’m thinking I’ll get FRAPS and record play with my same build once the patch comes into effect. That way I can document gameplay.

Second: I’ve played my exact same WvW build in sPvP before, and it certainly had it’s weaknesses. Some classes and players I could deal with, while others I could not. By altering my gameplay a little, I had good success. That said, WvW is a different game and without the spvp balances on other classes, confusion mesmers should expect to get destroyed. You’re not going to last in the attrition war that comes with fighting players in WvW (duels, small groups. WvW you’re just extra dps in the mass).

Third: If you have WvW badges you can get full sets of exotics with no problems. They might not look the best, but it’ll do in the interim if you’re changing.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The retaliation nerf was (just like the last time they said they changed retaliation) unspecified and not clear. They said that it would be reduced to sPvP levels. The problem with that statement is that retaliation isn’t reduced in sPvP. So…..I’ll wait until the patch rolls out, and test retaliation as I always do.

I suspect that it was actually a mistaken statement he made. My guess is that he meant to say there will be changes made to retaliation and confusion, and the retaliation change is the visual thing, not the damage part.

It is kinda on the down low for some reason (not clearly stated in any patch notes) but retaliation does 2/3 damage in sPvP. I’m guessing they are planning on reducing WvW damage to these levels.

See:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-retaliation-damage-reduced-by-1-3-in-sPvP

Kavia.8249:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The retaliation nerf was (just like the last time they said they changed retaliation) unspecified and not clear. They said that it would be reduced to sPvP levels. The problem with that statement is that retaliation isn’t reduced in sPvP. So…..I’ll wait until the patch rolls out, and test retaliation as I always do.

I suspect that it was actually a mistaken statement he made. My guess is that he meant to say there will be changes made to retaliation and confusion, and the retaliation change is the visual thing, not the damage part.

It is kinda on the down low for some reason (not clearly stated in any patch notes) but retaliation does 2/3 damage in sPvP. I’m guessing they are planning on reducing WvW damage to these levels.

See:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-retaliation-damage-reduced-by-1-3-in-sPvP

Interesting. I never actually noticed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

@Pyroatheist, like you suggested just had a look in the ele forums, face palm idd. I guess a wery viable tactic fighting a d/d now thu is blink away to the bbzbzbzb miss.

@All, anyway, lets now be mature. Drop the qq, we wont get Anet to change their mind. Lets theorycraft and make what we mesmers do bets. Be flexible and find new ways to toll the GW,s to the max. A serious buff to mantras might open new doors.

/Osicat

Advent.6193:

Meh. As I said on a WvW thread about this very subject: They would listen to the QQers. Thanks for reaming a good zerg-counter. Worst part is, if they’d went with a 25-33% drop, instead of half … it’d still punish your target, but not be OMGWTFBBQ powerful.

OTOH, the Signet change at least makes using my Condition Signet workable. Now, if we can get that bloody Vuln off of our Staves…

and be replaced by poison since we have none

Pyroatheist.9031:

chuckle

I have to say though, even with the amount of ridiculous exaggeration that people like selan are putting out in these threads, they’re absolutely NOTHING compared to the ele whining about the RTL nerf. Just go and look at that thread, you’ll facepalm your way all the way back to the mesmer forums.

Lol yeah i saw that too; but their turn will eventually come

So will this effect Zerker mesmers? Sorry im a noob mesmer!

no

wads.5730:

no

Ok thanks

Fay.2735:

________Mesmer Changes________
Mentioned during the 26/04/13’ State of the Game:

---

• Confusion reduced to PvP level (50%?) (Link covering Con/Ret)
• Retaliation reduced to PvP levels? (Retaliation will be made more obvious)
• Signet improvements – Now add 20 base, + 2 per level (Link covering Signets)
• Clones no longer aggro enemies you haven’t already aggro’d (Link covering Clones)
• Distortion no longer allows you to hold capture point (Link for rest)
• Moa cast on the move
• Moa nr 5 skill, reduced distance
• Mantra cast reduced to 2.75 (YES!)
• Illusion of Life cast time increase
  _

IMO nothing of value was gained, nothing of value was lost.

Confusion reduced to PvP level – welcome to sPvP balance level where you will L2P

Retaliation reduced to PvP levels? – same a before and being able to see it more will help people L2P

Signet improvements – Now add 20 base, + 2 per level <- nice but I’ll be totally honest I don’t quite get what this means exactly. And it’s a over all changes for all classes. So I don’t count this as “Mesmer”

Clones no longer aggro enemies you haven’t already aggro’d <- just quality of life. I’d prefer them to run to my target when shattering instead of random targets when at a distance.

Distortion no longer allows you to hold capture point <- you still win your point anyways unless they are BM roamer.

Moa cast on the move <- quality of life, not sure anyone runs this anymore anyways aside from lulz and niche team comps.

Moa nr 5 skill, reduced distance <- this however may bring Moa back~

Mantra cast reduced to 2.75 (YES!) <- gotta admit this is pretty nice. BUT WILL IT BE ENOUGH!?

Illusion of Life cast time increase <- oh so we’re nerfing the instant res teams. Tbh I hve no problems with this.

It’s not really nothing, but we didn’t get much. Tbh I’m rather pleased we are recognized as pretty balanced in the current meta, even if not always the most viable.

But lets see if bugs don’t nerf us like every other patch.

I assume you are a sPvP player then, so tell me: How many mesmers are running condition specs there? I honestly don’t know since i’m only playing WvW.

Iavra.8510:

I assume you are a sPvP player then, so tell me: How many mesmers are running condition specs there? I honestly don’t know since i’m only playing WvW.

From my experience,none.
And I PVP alot!

Jackums.3496:

The only competitive spec that would have avoided the nerf hammer would be phantasm builds.

Dont worry, I am fairly sure the patch will break at least one phantasm.

Just makes me wonder what people are going to complain about next, and after that, and after that. Almost makes me want to just abandon ship, because the nature of mesmer is it’s versatility and that is what people seem to have a problem with. Getting rid of one “problem” will only make more arise until mesmer is…. what?

Anet may as well just save their time, and ours by taking mesmer out completely if this continues.

And no, I’m not a condition build mesmer.

Shy that’s an over reaction, mesmers will still be in a great spot yes confusion will get a needless bed for the brain dead population however engis and rangers still have it pretty you with the pigeonholing we should still count ourselves lucky.

Now will this stop me from playing confusion / retaliation? No it won’t, good players or great players would avoid most of this damage anyway while brain dead people will still die to it, all I will do is modify the build to include an on demand direct DMg (power) attack that won’t be difficult or maybe depending on signet buff the condition DMg one might just make confusion useful.

Lets wait for full notes.

Daishi.6027:

Signet improvements – Now add 20 base, + 2 per level <- nice but I’ll be totally honest I don’t quite get what this means exactly. And it’s a over all changes for all classes. So I don’t count this as “Mesmer”

I listed it because it will affect us as well so it’s not Mesmer exclusive but it will make a difference.

Daishi.6027:

Mantra cast reduced to 2.75 (YES!) <- gotta admit this is pretty nice. BUT WILL IT BE ENOUGH!?

It will be enough to make mantras even more viable in at least PvE and WvW as for PvP I don’t think this will be enough to make a mantra build competitive. It will be enough to allow you to slot one mantra and still be effective but to be honest you could do that before.

But when you are talking about ‘Mantra Build’ you’d need at least two mantras and some dedicated traits which is why this cast time decrease won’t be enough due to the inherent trait problems with Mantras which would need to be reworked for them to be competitive as a build.

That said I still had pretty awesome success running a Mantra build in sPvP but it’s extremely duel orientated (which might be fun for when CA comes around) so as soon as someone else enters the playing field you don’t have the utility to survive long enough.

Sorry for spelling my iPhone likes to play with the dictionary ill sort it out when I’m back

So what they are pretty much saying: We should nerf confusion so other players can continue to play mindlessly and not paying any attention to conditions on them. Fact is confusion at the moment ain’t broke at all. As long as you pay attention you can easily deal with it even in wvw. By making it so much weaker you ain’t just killing glamour builds, but also make the scepter lose much of its usefulness again. Sad news for mesmers.

Useless changes.

Confusion reduced to PvP level (50%?) (Link covering Con/Ret)
Retaliation reduced to PvP levels? (Retaliation will be made more obvious)

Ok nerfs. Boring.

Signet improvements – Now add 20 base, + 2 per level (Link covering Signets)

This is a meaningless marginal change. So if you have signet of domination with you, you deal what 15 more damage with confusion? Oh wait, you deal 7 more damage.

Clones no longer aggro enemies you haven’t already aggro’d (Link covering Clones)

Bug fix.

Distortion no longer allows you to hold capture point (Link for rest)

Right? Well then also make it so that guard having aegis can’t hold capture point. These ridiculous hard fixes about not being able to hold capture point only show how bad and weak their pathetic point capturing game is. They should change the fundamental rules of that game before stuffing every crack with chewing gum. It’s obvious it’s not the same team working on gw2 as was on gw1.

Moa cast on the move
Moa nr 5 skill, reduced distance

So they improve the most boring elite skill in the game? kittening yes.

Mantra cast reduced to 2.75 (YES!)

Meh. Mantras still suck, and are still boring as hell.

selan.8354:

SpelignErrir.4263:

Entropy.4732:

Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.

80g O_o geez, you got some really bad deals.

nope actually before we finally got the rabid gear to wvw we had to buy the khilborn stuff (precision/toughness/cond) and they are very expensive and yes u get some of these through temples but yup expensive stuff right there.

Or you could have just ran TA/CM/Hotw or Arah for a week and a half and had rabid head to toe, weapons and made enough gold running it to buy or craft the jewels needed.

Don’t blame Anet for you spending 80g on armor that you could have gotten for 0g because you choose to use gold, instead of farm tokens.

Hey, topic creator, are you sure the confusion nerf isn’t only for wvw? Because confusion is broken there, and the devs did say that they would start splitting skills for wvw from this patch and on. My guess is that confusion will remain the same in pve, because it makes no sense otherwise.

One thing from this update is for sure, even though it is already broken the torches phantasm is even more useless and that sucks cause I really liked torch broken and all.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Hey, topic creator, are you sure the confusion nerf isn’t only for wvw? Because confusion is broken there, and the devs did say that they would start splitting skills for wvw from this patch and on. My guess is that confusion will remain the same in pve, because it makes no sense otherwise.

Thanks for pointing out that it was unclear in the list so I clarified in my original post that it’s for WvW not PvE (Only just realized how unclear that was unless you watch the video I linked).

In my opinion the confusion nerf was a right call, it was a bit too strong. And I got a mesmer and condition engineer, so I do use it myself too.
I don’t get why people act like it’s gonna destroy condition mesmers. Even with -50% dmg it’s still gonna be strong condition. And confusion isn’t the only condition mesmers can inflict.
If your target doesn’t do anything while stacked with confusion, it doesn’t matter if it does over 9000 damage or 900 damage.
If your target ignores the confusion, it’s still gonna do lots of damage. It’s just not death in couple seconds.
If it gets cleansed, the damage doesn’t matter that much, if at all.

Noss.4105:

And confusion isn’t the only condition mesmers can inflict.

errr which ones?i mean i havent noticed any conditions apart from confusion that does dmg that would actually help a condition build…

selan.8354:

Noss.4105:

And confusion isn’t the only condition mesmers can inflict.

errr which ones?i mean i havent noticed any conditions apart from confusion that does dmg that would actually help a condition build…

Have you tried staff?