Guild Wars 2

datawais.7209:

What would be interesting would be if confusion would be put back onto the scepter auto, and that’s the reason they’re halving the damage.

It would nerf engi discharge builds and buff the hell out of scepter.

It still doesn’t give mesmers a fantastic option for wvw, though.

Well, that would be a lovely and sensible change.

For that reason, it’s probably not happening.

My condition build in WvW is probably going to go bye bye now…

It’s like taking away the only condition that mesmers can reliably stack on an enemy.

Pyroatheist.9031:

datawais.7209:

What would be interesting would be if confusion would be put back onto the scepter auto, and that’s the reason they’re halving the damage.

It would nerf engi discharge builds and buff the hell out of scepter.

It still doesn’t give mesmers a fantastic option for wvw, though.

Well, that would be a lovely and sensible change.

For that reason, it’s probably not happening.

All the time spent playing mesmer, and I only succeed in deluding myself.

datawais.7209:

All the time spent playing mesmer, and I only succeed in deluding myself.

That may be the best line I have ever heard.

Fay.2735:

Daishi.6027:

Signet improvements – Now add 20 base, + 2 per level <- nice but I’ll be totally honest I don’t quite get what this means exactly. And it’s a over all changes for all classes. So I don’t count this as “Mesmer”

I listed it because it will affect us as well so it’s not Mesmer exclusive but it will make a difference.

Daishi.6027:

Mantra cast reduced to 2.75 (YES!) <- gotta admit this is pretty nice. BUT WILL IT BE ENOUGH!?

It will be enough to make mantras even more viable in at least PvE and WvW as for PvP I don’t think this will be enough to make a mantra build competitive. It will be enough to allow you to slot one mantra and still be effective but to be honest you could do that before.

But when you are talking about ‘Mantra Build’ you’d need at least two mantras and some dedicated traits which is why this cast time decrease won’t be enough due to the inherent trait problems with Mantras which would need to be reworked for them to be competitive as a build.

That said I still had pretty awesome success running a Mantra build in sPvP but it’s extremely duel orientated (which might be fun for when CA comes around) so as soon as someone else enters the playing field you don’t have the utility to survive long enough.

To make mantras more viable HM needs moved down to master tree….

jportell.2197:

To make mantras more viable HM needs moved down to master tree….

Very much this, I would place all the damage ones under duelling EM on mastery, HM on grandmastery then PM needs a rework because it’s pathetic. Maybe have it proc stability for the duration of the cast time? Something along those lines…

Then I would probably place MM as mastery choice in inspiration and RM as grandmastery as I feel it’s such a powerful healing skill.

(Just throwing out ideas here, either way traits need reshuffling/reworking to make mantras viable competitively, the mantras themselves are fine as they are single target)

Mantra builds seem interesting and it looks like they have a lot of potential but as of right now I feel like they are built more for support-type gameplay. At least for me, it’s not enough to replace Null Field, Blink, or Feedback.

If they are going to nerf confusion, they should at least improve how well we stack other conditions to make condition mesmers still viable

Bearlin.7238:

Mantra builds seem interesting and it looks like they have a lot of potential but as of right now I feel like they are built more for support-type gameplay. At least for me, it’s not enough to replace Null Field, Blink, or Feedback.

If they are going to nerf confusion, they should at least improve how well we stack other conditions to make condition mesmers still viable

This idea I like. If confusion is too overpowered, which I don’t believe it is, could we be given some better options for inflicting damage via other conditions. I would like to have the potential to stack more bleeds if possible, anything to balance such a hard nerf.

Mere Image.8376:

Bearlin.7238:

Mantra builds seem interesting and it looks like they have a lot of potential but as of right now I feel like they are built more for support-type gameplay. At least for me, it’s not enough to replace Null Field, Blink, or Feedback.

If they are going to nerf confusion, they should at least improve how well we stack other conditions to make condition mesmers still viable

This idea I like. If confusion is too overpowered, which I don’t believe it is, could we be give some better options for inflicting damage via other conditions. I would like to have the potential to stack more bleeds if possible, anything to balance such a hard nerf.

yeah something that works with glamour effects

If they made elasticity bounce work on clones… that would work…

I don’t play mesmer much but thought of something that might help mantra builds.

Idea: Mutiple mantras can charge at the same time.

Pros: The time needed to charge all of your mantras is no longer consecutive. Theoretically it could all be done at once.

Mechanics: You still can’t use any other skills while charging mantras except for mantras.

Cons: One daze/stun/knockdown/pull would interrupt all of the charging mantras.

Charging mantra cast times can be adjusted for the mechanic change and stability could be used to protect the charges. I can’t think of how mesmer’s gain access to stability so not sure if it could be abused.

The few times I’ve tried a mantra build it just feels too clunky. I feel like I’m slowly falling behind and always trying to catch up with charging mantras.

Thoughts? Idiotic idea?

Noss.4105:

In my opinion the confusion nerf was a right call, it was a bit too strong. And I got a mesmer and condition engineer, so I do use it myself too.
I don’t get why people act like it’s gonna destroy condition mesmers. Even with -50% dmg it’s still gonna be strong condition. And confusion isn’t the only condition mesmers can inflict.
If your target doesn’t do anything while stacked with confusion, it doesn’t matter if it does over 9000 damage or 900 damage.
If your target ignores the confusion, it’s still gonna do lots of damage. It’s just not death in couple seconds.
If it gets cleansed, the damage doesn’t matter that much, if at all.

Agreed. The problem with condition mesmers in sPvP is the lack of reliable access to poison. Condi classes need this in order to win attrition fights. Speccing for confusion (i.e. glamour builds) puts all your eggs in one basket – you stack confusion but if you’re specced for condi damage, they can just wait it out / use their heals or cleanses and be fine because you wont do enough direct damage to pressure them. Consider the comparison of null field and feedback to ranger traps, or necro wells – the confusion you apply just pales in comparison to the damage and condi pressure applied by other classes. Condi specs for other classes rely on high damage condies to apply pressure plus poison to prevent healing from outpacing the condies, and mesmers just can’t stack enough.

oh – and btw nobody plays a condition guardian or elementalist. It is possible that some classes are just better with condition specs than others and Anet doesn’t see a viable condi mesmer as a high priority spec.

Kavia.8249:

oh – and btw nobody plays a condition guardian or elementalist. It is possible that some classes are just better with condition specs than others and Anet doesn’t see a viable condi mesmer as a high priority spec.

not really true if u take a look at our traits and weapons. a lot of it comes with conditions to apply ans confusion is really the only condition u have and the way the traits are set up eveb our f2 shatter a mesmer was supposed to be able to sepc into condition dmg.wvw would be so boring if there were only tanks and class cannons

Kavia.8249:

Noss.4105:

In my opinion the confusion nerf was a right call, it was a bit too strong. And I got a mesmer and condition engineer, so I do use it myself too.
I don’t get why people act like it’s gonna destroy condition mesmers. Even with -50% dmg it’s still gonna be strong condition. And confusion isn’t the only condition mesmers can inflict.
If your target doesn’t do anything while stacked with confusion, it doesn’t matter if it does over 9000 damage or 900 damage.
If your target ignores the confusion, it’s still gonna do lots of damage. It’s just not death in couple seconds.
If it gets cleansed, the damage doesn’t matter that much, if at all.

Agreed. The problem with condition mesmers in sPvP is the lack of reliable access to poison. Condi classes need this in order to win attrition fights. Speccing for confusion (i.e. glamour builds) puts all your eggs in one basket – you stack confusion but if you’re specced for condi damage, they can just wait it out / use their heals or cleanses and be fine because you wont do enough direct damage to pressure them. Consider the comparison of null field and feedback to ranger traps, or necro wells – the confusion you apply just pales in comparison to the damage and condi pressure applied by other classes. Condi specs for other classes rely on high damage condies to apply pressure plus poison to prevent healing from outpacing the condies, and mesmers just can’t stack enough.

People do realize you can spec for confusion without using glamours… and have a much shorter cooldown for blinds that cause confusion…. Run scepter torch+staff…. You are taking the staff mainly for CS+PR combo and Chaos armor… Why because having chaos armor up for the full time you are waiting for CDs from the S/T weapon set allows for a full uptime on confusion.. of course if they don’t hit you while you have chaos armor up you are still winning… point is confusion builds are completely doable in PvP if you don’t stress about the glamours… and use weapon combos that have a lot of access to blinds plus skills (signet of midnight hellloooo) lol.

jportell.2197:

Kavia.8249:

Noss.4105:

In my opinion the confusion nerf was a right call, it was a bit too strong. And I got a mesmer and condition engineer, so I do use it myself too.
I don’t get why people act like it’s gonna destroy condition mesmers. Even with -50% dmg it’s still gonna be strong condition. And confusion isn’t the only condition mesmers can inflict.
If your target doesn’t do anything while stacked with confusion, it doesn’t matter if it does over 9000 damage or 900 damage.
If your target ignores the confusion, it’s still gonna do lots of damage. It’s just not death in couple seconds.
If it gets cleansed, the damage doesn’t matter that much, if at all.

Agreed. The problem with condition mesmers in sPvP is the lack of reliable access to poison. Condi classes need this in order to win attrition fights. Speccing for confusion (i.e. glamour builds) puts all your eggs in one basket – you stack confusion but if you’re specced for condi damage, they can just wait it out / use their heals or cleanses and be fine because you wont do enough direct damage to pressure them. Consider the comparison of null field and feedback to ranger traps, or necro wells – the confusion you apply just pales in comparison to the damage and condi pressure applied by other classes. Condi specs for other classes rely on high damage condies to apply pressure plus poison to prevent healing from outpacing the condies, and mesmers just can’t stack enough.

People do realize you can spec for confusion without using glamours… and have a much shorter cooldown for blinds that cause confusion…. Run scepter torch+staff…. You are taking the staff mainly for CS+PR combo and Chaos armor… Why because having chaos armor up for the full time you are waiting for CDs from the S/T weapon set allows for a full uptime on confusion.. of course if they don’t hit you while you have chaos armor up you are still winning… point is confusion builds are completely doable in PvP if you don’t stress about the glamours… and use weapon combos that have a lot of access to blinds plus skills (signet of midnight hellloooo) lol.

nah in wvw its sort of a must to have a focus as u have to run all over the place so no torch for me..it’s not an option!I’m not sure if u are more a pvp player but wvw is a complete different game u can’t just blind everyone and run through and all that don’t forget that in wvw u need to be able to fight through 30 to 60 + people.conditions are very useful there if u can apply it to multiple targets.

selan.8354:

nah in wvw its sort of a must to have a focus as u have to run all over the place so no torch for me..it’s not an option!I’m not sure if u are more a pvp player but wvw is a complete different game u can’t just blind everyone and run through and all that don’t forget that in wvw u need to be able to fight through 30 to 60 + people.conditions are very useful there if u can apply it to multiple targets.

Uhm no, it’s just an option, your opinion.
If you play Shatter condition with your guild you don’t need the focus, and the Prestige is perfect for approaching the invaders and use a Confusion bomb.

It’s just a different gameplay, imho.

Profano.9514:

selan.8354:

nah in wvw its sort of a must to have a focus as u have to run all over the place so no torch for me..it’s not an option!I’m not sure if u are more a pvp player but wvw is a complete different game u can’t just blind everyone and run through and all that don’t forget that in wvw u need to be able to fight through 30 to 60 + people.conditions are very useful there if u can apply it to multiple targets.

Uhm no, it’s just an option, your opinion.
If you play Shatter condition with your guild you don’t need the focus, and the Prestige is perfect for approaching the invaders and use a Confusion bomb.

It’s just a different gameplay, imho.

but what if u fall behind?it takes forever without focus to get to places.I used to run without it and it was a pain!

Entropy.4732:

Awful. Just awful. By nerfing confusion they destroyed the only real counter to the Zerg balls ruining WvW and weakened our class by a ton. Not to mention wasted my time. After all that grinding to get carrion armor and rabid trinkets… That’s like 80g down the drain. Now I gotta respec entirely. And ZERO changes to the traits? So glam traits are basically useless? Great. Very disappointing.

this is EXACTLY why I dont play PvE where I have the grind for my gear

Profano.9514:

selan.8354:

nah in wvw its sort of a must to have a focus as u have to run all over the place so no torch for me..it’s not an option!I’m not sure if u are more a pvp player but wvw is a complete different game u can’t just blind everyone and run through and all that don’t forget that in wvw u need to be able to fight through 30 to 60 + people.conditions are very useful there if u can apply it to multiple targets.

Uhm no, it’s just an option, your opinion.
If you play Shatter condition with your guild you don’t need the focus, and the Prestige is perfect for approaching the invaders and use a Confusion bomb.

It’s just a different gameplay, imho.

Yeah… you still have blink (can trait for it in a confusion build that doesn’t rely on glams) and I get plenty of group swiftness. I do WvW a lot but with school I only have time to do a few pvp matches.

The Illusion of Life thing is weird.
I mean yes, the ability is in theory very powerful, but given it’s long CD and tiny radius, was the lack of interruptability really the issue?

The confusion nerf in WvWvW is a huge red flag to me as a player concerned about the game’s future balance.

I have a short story to tell. It’s called..

Confusion – WTF do you think this skill is about?

As Poison is a condition that punishes players that heal without cleansing, confusion is a condition that punishes players that spam without cleansing. So confusion needs to hit hard in order to matter and deter people from spamming carelessly.

Confusion builds are major trait and utility skill hogs. You have to sell out your build to make confusion matter. It’s funny to think that anyone is complaining about the power of a condition that requires so many traits and stats and skills to even be effective.

Confusion whining increased once culling was fixed. Why? Because zergs became an even greater part of the WvWvW game and aoe confusions were effective against zergs. Yet, unlike shatter or power phantasm builds, confusion builds like the glam mesmer are rather weak outside of the few skills the class depends upon. They have less survival than a glass cannon shatter Meesmer or the Phantasm Mesmer, and offer less overall outside of confusion weeding out careless players. So without confusion having the heavy damage it needs to even work, the build is pointless.

As well, a condition Mesmer relies heavily on Confusion and Bleeds. So without confusion hitting hard to deter spamming or punish spamming then going condition damage is a questionable choice.

What does that leave confusion as? A bit of extra damage ON OCCASION for a shatter mes. That’s all. Confusion almost HAS to hit for 1k+ to matter. It falls off so quickly and requires so much investment that it is pointless otherwise.

If you keep neutering the condition then you might as well not have the condition. The punishment is the purpose. It’s like removing the heal debuff from poison.

etiolate.9185:

As Poison is a condition that punishes players that heal without cleansing, confusion is a condition that punishes players that spam without cleansing. So confusion needs to hit hard in order to matter and deter people from spamming carelessly.

Yeah but now it’s more of a general game issue. Thing is, you just stated why the nerf to Confusion might be justified.

Poison stacks in duration, causing it to maximize the punishing effect by extending the time you “waste” healing without cleansing it.
Confusion though is rather short-lived, but stacks in power. If it were meant entirely as a “You better cleanse yourself before you continue spamming!”-debuff, it’d have a lot more power with 1 stack, but stack in duration.

Come to think of it, that’s not a bad idea! :O

I mean, it’d make F2 less of an inferior F1 (since it’d be more unique), and it would fix many of Confusion’s issues in PvE.

What does everyone else think about that? Increase power to ~3 current stacks, but in turn take away stackability of power entirely, instead stack duration.

This nerf stuff sounds funny, because right now confusion damage from poi of my www melee guardian is just non-existent, even while mindlessly spamming auto and running in and out of confuse fields.

Winds.3087:

This nerf stuff sounds funny, because right now confusion damage from poi of my www melee guardian is just non-existent, even while mindlessly spamming auto and running in and out of confuse fields.

It’s mostly lethal to players running full berserker setups (so they have 0 additional health) and spamming very fast attacks (read: Thieves).

And if Thieves die, it’s obviously the fault of the other player who was overpowered. Real thieves don’t die! :P

Carighan.6758:

It’s mostly lethal to players running full berserker setups (so they have 0 additional health) and spamming very fast attacks (read: Thieves).

And if Thieves die, it’s obviously the fault of the other player who was overpowered. Real thieves don’t die! :P

Current zergfest manifesto states that if it can’t live under pressure from 20 and more players and uncounted occasional aoes for at least 2 minutes without blowing all defensives, it should go slapping dolyaks and sologank.
I don’t really understand why people bring their dying-from-sneeze characters and then complain.

Their fast deaths also rally enemy, which is bad.

selan.8354:

but what if u fall behind?it takes forever without focus to get to places.I used to run without it and it was a pain!

Just take one focus in your Inventory.
If you are running with your guild you are not in combat, so: open inventory, double click on focus and use Temporal Curtain.
You can swap again or use the focus until you approach the enemy.

Profano.9514:

selan.8354:

but what if u fall behind?it takes forever without focus to get to places.I used to run without it and it was a pain!

Just take one focus in your Inventory.
If you are running with your guild you are not in combat, so: open inventory, double click on focus and use Temporal Curtain.
You can swap again or use the focus until you approach the enemy.

That’s exactly what I do. I run around with my focus and when I see foes, I switch to my torch. Not a hard thing to do at all. Some times its even more advantageous to fight with the focus on for that wonderful cliff throw when outnumbered. I’ve found that evens the odds on many occasions. Although I couldn’t help but laugh the day someone had traited that it mirrored it back to me and I joined them at the bottom of the cliff.

I’m honestly holding out till patch day. I know it’s going to hurt, but I’m hoping it will still be effective.

My main gripe is, like what has already been stated, that this just encourages zerg vs zerg more. It’s not like adding 5 extra supply for 300 WXP points did anything…

Obviously it’s going to make the restorative mantras cycle with Mantra of Recovery and Mantra of Pain just that much better.

It actually has me considering how good Mantras would be with a 20% better recharge. That’s 0.2s off Pain, 2s off Recovery, 4s off Resolve, 5s off Concentration, and 6s off Distraction.

So 0.5 sec off channel x2 gives us 1.0 sec. Then Remove 2s from Recovery and 0.2 off Pain and we now have 3.2s shaved off the tightest possible Restorative Mantras cycle.

I’d say shaving 3.2s off would drastically increase the heals-per-second :-)

10,000 / 21.5 = 465.116 hp per sec (present w/o recharge trait)
10,000 / 20.5 = 487.805 hp per sec (after patch w/o recharge trait)
10,000 / 18.3 = 546.448 hp per sec (after patch w/ 20% recharge trait)

Hmm… not the best move by Anet when you consider that ESO is coming out soon.

This is why I left WoW to SWTOR and then to GW2. One would think that companies that produce MMO’s would learn from the mistakes of the competition.

FinalPatriot.8034:

Hmm… not the best move by Anet when you consider that ESO is coming out soon.

This is why I left WoW to SWTOR and then to GW2. One would think that companies that produce MMO’s would learn from the mistakes of the competition.

I think most of them have. They know that there are players that constantly jump from one game to another as new games come out. They focus less on those players and more on the other types.

Sebrent.3625:

FinalPatriot.8034:

Hmm… not the best move by Anet when you consider that ESO is coming out soon.

This is why I left WoW to SWTOR and then to GW2. One would think that companies that produce MMO’s would learn from the mistakes of the competition.

I think most of them have. They know that there are players that constantly jump from one game to another as new games come out. They focus less on those players and more on the other types.

That’s unfortunate. I tend to pick a game and just stick with it until I changes so much that it’s no longer the core of what attracted me to it. 5 years in WoW, SWTOR since beta (until now) and now GW2. I actually had no intention to play ESO but even though this nerf doesn’t affect how I play, I still get concerned with the trend.

My favorite class/playe-style was nerfed in WoW and SWTOR not because they were difficult to defeat but because they played on the stupidity of others. Hence, they were tagged as being OP.

Does pet HP increase count for clones/phantasms?

Honestly, the nerfs seem rather careless.

RTL wasn’t so bad that the cast time had to be doubled out of combat. They should’ve made it affected by cripples/slows instead or a 25-30 second cooldown tops.

I’ve never focused on confusion, yet even I could see that such a dramatic nerf is a ridiculous overreaction. It doesnt make sense to make it “more like sPvP” since most of the WvW tears came from zergs. A ZERG CAN REZZ ITS DOWNED PLAYERS MUCH BETTER THAN A TEAM IN SPVP and as such, theres a different balancing act needed. Why not examine it from a 25% nerf first, then gradually raise in intervals of 10% if needed?

IMO Anet spends too much time coddling new players unfamiliar with game mechanics and taking away enjoyment from players who actually took the time to learn. These major nerfs come with lackluster buffs( <3 Mantras, but c’mon..) nearly every month. IZerker, Haste, now Confusion.

I hope these “bug fixes” include Zerker, and Chaos Armor among others.. and illusionary elasticity if thats even a bug.

On the bright side.. With blink and focus now I can beat eles in races. =D

FinalPatriot.8034:

This is why I left WoW to SWTOR and then to GW2. One would think that companies that produce MMO’s would learn from the mistakes of the competition.

And the mistakes are? Balance is never really done better or worse. You could argue that they shouldn’t make rash changes, OTOH the other half of their fanbase is telling them to nerf stuff yesterday.

MMO-development is a kitten if-you-do kitten if-you-don’t process. The only way to not get your playerbase angry is to never release a MMO in the first place. Promise, as soon as ESO is out, you’ll have people flooding their forums with how unbalanced it is and how they need to L2D.

in my dreams:
scepter skill #1 cause confusion and bounce to additional targets
scepter skills #2 rework. choatic reversal: become invincible for 2 seconds, you and nearby party members gain retailiation.