Guild Wars 2

Fixing thread.

/15char

Nazer.7301:

I hate “mesmer experts” that haven’t played in months/years but still feel the need to give their opinions ON EVERY THREAD.

But the meta hasn’t changed in months/years, so their knowledge is still very applicable.

I hate watching a Condi or Phant Mesmer getting their target to 1% hp with an Illusion right next to it and not using Mind Wrack – happens almost every time I watch one play..

Hmmm… things i hate to see mesmers do…

Play Hotjoin in sPvP, Only bring a meta build and a guildie who is also running a Mesmer with another Meta Build – Talk trash as if all 2v1’s you win are because they are bad.

Bring a Scepter and have 0 Condition Damage behind it.

Tell someone else that their build is Trash and Doesn’t/Won’t Work in PvE… everything works in PvE some things are just not Min/Maxed.

Mesmers who talk down to others who use different weapon sets. I run a Staff in PvE and I may not do 80k DPS but my teams in dungeons appreciate the boons and that i can ramp up to match DPS with damage and conditions..

Mesmers who are incapable of thinking outside of their own play “windows” or “boxes” and consider other things. Not everyone just logs on to go to WvW and run around all alone and hope to PvP with food and utilities, not everyone just wants to join a wvw zerg every day, not everyone has a guild they can do activities with, not everyone has played sPvP, etc…

Mesmers who Dismiss with L2P, more often than not it actually is a L2P issue but often what to learn is not clear. Do they need to learn how to manage their resources or just deal with the stupid hard counters of a thief or learn to deal with our classes bugs?

Mesmers who point to PU as a Training tool or training wheels, This build type is neither, its just the most popular build at this time. There are better builds and better situations out there to let newer players to learn how and when to use F1-4, what weapons to bring and use, and when to use them. etc… If someone asks you to teach them how to Drive a Nail into a board, you dont hand them Thor’s Hammer right off the bat and tell them Good luck.

Mesmers that only find class or self worth out of the ability to win a Duel. sPvP or WvW, doesn’t matter on this one, ya’ll are annoying.

I could think of more but i have stuff to do before work today x.x

The entitlement from some posters, woaw! When I started mesmer last year, I searched “mesmer WvW builds” and “learn to mesmer.” Both led me to this forum with a ton of builds and way more info than I knew what to do with. How is this hidden, secret knowledge? It’s up to you to look for info if you are struggling with a class.

Ok, now to get back to the topic…what kitten y things do other mesmers do? Hmmmmm.

Run super cheesy condi builds, roflstomp almost everyone, then proceed to gloat and BM the person they condi’d while stealthed.

Mesmers that don’t use any of their shatters! Even if they’re a phantasm build.

Mesmers that are super tanky. Why?! :P

PU condi mesmers that BM you when you walk away from their condi spam.

Mesmers that stomp the clone when you’re downed. lol..

Mesmers that stand in one place and auto attack.

Condi mesmers that claim condi builds take more skill than shatter builds.

When PU or on clone death mesmers whine about the nerfs coming this week. XD

I have heard pu condi refered to as “the meta” over and over.. you understand it is just a trash hotjoin build right.. and is really bad in normal games.

it is not even “the most popluar build” it is a gimic spec that only works if you avoid all objectives in game or are carried.

Swish.2463:

Hmmm… things i hate to see mesmers do…

Mesmers who point to PU as a Training tool or training wheels, There are better builds and better situations out there to let newer players to learn how and when to use F1-4, what weapons to bring and use, and when to use them. etc…

Mesmers that only find class or self worth out of the ability to win a Duel. sPvP or WvW, doesn’t matter on this one, ya’ll are annoying.

PU condi build is a great learning build/training wheels build. It’s hard to lose with this build. It’s Mesmer: Easy Mode. You can start taking away the training wheels by adding more power/less condi/toughness to your build. With the PU condi build, you learn the basic attacks using staff, scepter/torch. You use decoy, maybe moa (<_<), mass invis, blink, some random stuff you try out because the build is very forgiving – then you start to see which ones work better with your playstyle. You win a good amount of fights when an enemy decides to actually engage a PU condi mesmer. You may start getting annoyed at people walking away from you. You may also start to notice it can take a long while to kill with this build. Maybe you switch it up and go to a phantasm build. You def see a difference in your DPS and you do kill things faster, but you’re a bit squishier! After awhile, you wonder how you can counter certain classes/builds you have trouble with, so you play those and learn the ins and outs of other classes/builds. It’s a process. And this is my confession as a mesmer that started Blackwater and is now Shatter. XD I even still have my rabid gear, haha. PU condi build training wheels for the win!

Whoa whoa whoa. Just because some of us like to duel, doesn’t mean we are annoying. :O What about mesmers that pride themselves on speed dungeon runs? Whatever floats your boat, mate. Mesmer class is fun. Some of us like the challenge of pitting our mesmer against other people’s classes/builds vs the challenge of soloing Arah or something. I prefer playing against people vs NPC’s. Also, isn’t PvP and WvW a player vs player (vs player) type of situation? o__O You go in knowing there are other people out there wanting to kill you. O__o I’d rather kill than be killed, mate.

zaxon.6819:

I have heard pu condi refered to as “the meta” over and over.. you understand it is just a trash hotjoin build right.. and is really bad in normal games.

it is not even “the most popluar build” it is a gimic spec that only works if you avoid all objectives in game or are carried.

Been saying this the whole kitten time. Yet people are parading around like this is the best mesmer patch ever. Active gameplay! Scepter is now viable! CPU is dead!

Just what in the world….

Maybe I hate seeing mesmers bound to the delusion that any “mesmer fixes” that come rolling through are any good in the long run. Like the mesmer’s past was completely rewritten or “this patch Anet is unveiling a new class named, Mesmer!!”

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

\
Finally, any Mesmer that plays PU condi after patch as their main build, as that build will be cancer.

Any Mesmer who talks like a scrub.

Nothing personal WC.

What is WC? welcome? sorry.

Warlord of Chaos

zaxon.6819:

I have heard pu condi refered to as “the meta” over and over.. you understand it is just a trash hotjoin build right.. and is really bad in normal games.

it is not even “the most popluar build” it is a gimic spec that only works if you avoid all objectives in game or are carried.

PU condi is great for roaming in WvW. It is not great for mid-high level PvP matches. Not sure what the PvE popular build is, possibly a power phantasm build?

I think it’s very popular in WvW due to the survivability of the build. You need some survivability in WvW when you’ve got zergs all over, gank squads in between and condi thieves you can run into.

Solori.6025:

Mogar.9216:

sirrealist.1360:

Solori.6025:

Dodging for no reason
YOU ALREADY HAVE 3 CLONES WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!!

So funny when I see this!

maybe to kill one of those 3 to trigger clone death effects ?

that would be nice if

A. you could control which clone explodes and
B. If im next to a clone.

You’re in control of both of those things. With 3 clones out, or two phantasms and one clone, it’s the first clone created that dies.

A true mesmer knows the art and purpose of dat moa

Don’t hate mez because me is purple

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

Jeez, Pyro. Can you feel all the love?

By the way, Sethren, that’s a presumptuous list filled to the brim with hyperbole.

Also, its possible to be a “pompous, arrogant” expert.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

Jeez, Pyro. Can you feel all the love?

By the way, Sethren, that’s a presumptuous list filled to the brim with hyperbole.

Also, its possible to be a “pompous, arrogant” expert.

Can smell it from all the way over here.

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

The reason there’s so much animosity is because PvP is full of autistic tryhards who think their game mode is the only challenging game mode when they would probably eat the floor trying to do challenging PvE content, or run stupid PvP builds and pewpew with a GS from 5,000 range.

And then you get the PvE autistics who think most of the dungeons actually take skill to do when you can just roll your face over keys and everything dies (gj ferocity, you made AC brain-afk).

And then you get the WvW speds who think PvE is just braindead zerging, and then stick them in Arah and they’d sit there dead the entire dungeon.

There’s bad people on all sides, but the smug PvPers and WvWers really drive me up the wall, because monkey rolling around trying to dodge deadly skills with zero or barely any choreograph is clearly skill, and hoping to get lucky and not get eaten alive by something stupid which has absolutely jack all for tells.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

Jeez, Pyro. Can you feel all the love?

By the way, Sethren, that’s a presumptuous list filled to the brim with hyperbole.

Also, its possible to be a “pompous, arrogant” expert.

Not presumptuous, just observant. I look at it this way, if what I said doesn’t apply to you, then you should have no reason to take it personally. If it does… well then, there’s the rub. You asked for us to list the actions of other Mesmers that we hate, so I did. Just because my list was conceptual rather than tangible doesn’t negate its validity.

It is true. There can be humble, knowledgeable players who have learned tricks of the trade, and they wish to help out their fellow gamers by passing along that knowledge. Those, I have no problem with. It’s the ones who get the snarky attitude, and they begin to talk to others as if they are On High. They approach any conversation with an attitude that reeks of, “Other players should feel privileged that they would descend from on high to speak with them.” (cue bright light). Those are the ones I have serious issues with.

Sethren.8472:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

Jeez, Pyro. Can you feel all the love?

By the way, Sethren, that’s a presumptuous list filled to the brim with hyperbole.

Also, its possible to be a “pompous, arrogant” expert.

Not presumptuous, just observant. I look at it this way, if what I said doesn’t apply to you, then you should have no reason to take it personally. If it does… well then, there’s the rub.

It is true. There can be humble, knowledgeable players who have learned tricks of the trade, and they wish to help out their fellow gamers by passing along that knowledge. Those, I have no problem with. It’s the ones who get the snarky attitude, and they begin to talk to others as if they are On High. They approach any conversation with an attitude that reeks of, “Other players should feel privileged that they would descend from on high to speak with them.” (cue bright light). Those are the ones I have serious issues with.

All the highly skilled mesmers I’ve met have been super helpful. Then again, I tend to look past the attitude and glean what I can from what they say/do.

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

This list made me laugh! xD

Especially the preempt nerfing one!

This thread. Such catharsis. Purge away guys.

I do roll my eyes when I see other Mesmers trying to stack swiftness with Temporal Curtain. Although it’s perfectly possible that this “feature” is not as widely known as I thought.

Sethren.8472:

Hrm…

- I hate when Mesmers approach class changes through a singular, “tunnel-visioned” lens (usually PvP or WvW), and they forget there is a third mode of play (PvE). cough Scepter cough

- I hate when certain Mesmers achieve the rank of arrogance that some display on these forums daily. You may call them “experts.” The real word is “arrogant” or “pompous.”

- I hate when Mesmers act like know-it-alls.

- I hate when Mesmers contradict themselves.

- I hate how much animosity there is between PvP/WvW Mesmers and PvE Mesmers.

- I hate when Mesmers cry for Mesmer nerfs because they want to preempt the other classes crying for Mesmer nerfs.

- I hate when Mesmers are scared of being damage dealers. Any buff that increases damage, they immediately call OP, and say ArenaNet needs to nerf it.

- I hate how PvP/WvW Mesmers look condescendingly on PvE Mesmers. Just because you enjoy one game mode over the other does not make you better than those who enjoy the opposite mode.

- I hate arrogant Mesmers.

Esplen.3940:

Clownmug.8357:

Playing an asura mesmer - This only annoys me because it seems like the default choice of someone bored with their main class and wants to try something different.

But… Asura Mesmer is my main class. I didn’t pick it for the PvP advantage…

I know it’s wide known that asura have a pvp advantage for the hard to see tells and all, but for mesmer do you think it works as a disadvantage? Like you have your screen and you have all the clones and the player running around the clones. With less character model taking up the screen space it sort of draws more attention to enemy player and their movements ( I know in high level pvp most players can follow the player but sometimes in streams and tourneys ill see even the highest players get a little turned around on a clone). With bigger race models however, the clones can sort of cover up valuable screen real estate, and allow the player to sort of hide their movements better. I’m just asking from my personal experience, I feel like I have a way easier time fighting an asura mesmer as opposed to say a charr or norn mesmer.

if any of that makes sense at all lol

I don’t know why people complain about Asura Mesmer when you can literally make a Male Norn Mesmer, pick the beefiest body type and set the head size and height to maximum, don’t need to change any other setting, go into PvP as any Clone spam build and instantly confuse the opponents.

It won’t even be confusing as to who the real one is or where they are, they just have a ton of bodies blocking the screen. I did this as a Shatter Mesmer alongside a Phantasm Mesmer in one of the all Mesmer vs all Thieves matches a long time ago. It worked out great to distract because they couldn’t click past the 6 AI.

But for interruption purposes (and not targeting), Mesmer Asura have the advantage.
EDIT: Also our names were a combination of L’s and I’s, along with both looking the exact same.

EDIT2: Asura*, not Mesmers…

Yeah, I recently fought a charr mesmer and I couldn’t see kitten on my short kitten mesmer, LOL.

So in comparison my post isn’t really that bad. Things certainly took a sharp turn to personal attacks pretty quick.

I hate it when Mesmers unnecessarily use Illusionary Wave in group fights especially when other people just set up a burst or ground targeted effect. That’s basically multi-target Longbow Ranger trolling. Arrrg… even thinking of it makes me want to smash something.

Simonoly.4352:

I do roll my eyes when I see other Mesmers trying to stack swiftness with Temporal Curtain. Although it’s perfectly possible that this “feature” is not as widely known as I thought.

Some Mesmers will throw it down to try help people that may be falling behind in WvW though, since you know, they already have the Swiftness as they’re in the pack, so why not help out those that are slightly too far behind, losing their Swiftness. Just in defense of some Mesmers at least, haha.

Playing an Asura by far.

Swish.2463:

Mesmers who point to PU as a Training tool or training wheels. If someone asks you to teach them how to Drive a Nail into a board, you dont hand them Thor’s Hammer right off the bat and tell them Good luck.

That’s actually a good (and quite humorous) point; I had never thought of that way before. Thanks

I recall teaching a new Mesmer how to play and starting him off with condi PU. He liked gs too much though but wouldn’t switch to zerk. So basically he was a PU Mesmer with a rabid gs (And surprisingly enough, he did quite well with it!).

But yea, while PU teaches you how to press your weapon skills and decoy, it really doesn’t teach you when or why (They can’t hit what they can’t see, so I shall spam my stealth). Plus, it’s just such a relaxed way to play… you can basically sleep through it sometimes. I would even duel UI-less and win. But I’m not claiming PU to be immortal by any notion. The point is that it doesn’t really provide much incentive to explore other playstyles, which is a shame, really.

WhiteRose.6934:

So in comparison my post isn’t really that bad. Things certainly took a sharp turn to personal attacks pretty quick.

Exactly, haha I didnt know that a lot of mesmers secretly hate each other, or is it an illusion? haha.

maha.7902:

The reason there’s so much animosity is because PvP is full of autistic tryhards who think their game mode is the only challenging game mode when they would probably eat the floor trying to do challenging PvE content, or run stupid PvP builds and pewpew with a GS from 5,000 range.

And then you get the PvE autistics who think most of the dungeons actually take skill to do when you can just roll your face over keys and everything dies (gj ferocity, you made AC brain-afk).

And then you get the WvW speds who think PvE is just braindead zerging, and then stick them in Arah and they’d sit there dead the entire dungeon.

There’s bad people on all sides, but the smug PvPers and WvWers really drive me up the wall, because monkey rolling around trying to dodge deadly skills with zero or barely any choreograph is clearly skill, and hoping to get lucky and not get eaten alive by something stupid which has absolutely jack all for tells.

This made me LOL IRL

ToaLux.6478:

Swish.2463:

Mesmers who point to PU as a Training tool or training wheels. If someone asks you to teach them how to Drive a Nail into a board, you dont hand them Thor’s Hammer right off the bat and tell them Good luck.

That’s actually a good (and quite humorous) point; I had never thought of that way before. Thanks

I recall teaching a new Mesmer how to play and starting him off with condi PU. He liked gs too much though but wouldn’t switch to zerk. So basically he was a PU Mesmer with a rabid gs (And surprisingly enough, he did quite well with it!).

But yea, while PU teaches you how to press your weapon skills and decoy, it really doesn’t teach you when or why (They can’t hit what they can’t see, so I shall spam my stealth). Plus, it’s just such a relaxed way to play… you can basically sleep through it sometimes. I would even duel UI-less and win. But I’m not claiming PU to be immortal by any notion. The point is that it doesn’t really provide much incentive to explore other playstyles, which is a shame, really.

next to pistol .. greatsword is the second best condi weapon for mesmer imo… the 3 hits with no cooldown that greatsword clones do with spacial surge stack 2x the bleeds as staff clones and the weapon is more useful from greater ranges. staff is mostly used for these specs because they are 100 percent defensive specs though. if people could play without crutches they wouldnt need pu in the frist place.

The rule of thumb that clones attack with roughly 1 seconds delay between each cycle, still applies to Greatsword clones, so what do you mean by no cooldown? And a lot of people use Staff because it’s defensive in its nature, not necessarily because the build they run is. The bolts are also a great source of Might and Fury, something that can’t be said about Greatsword clones.

Honestly, who cares if Joe or Mary wants to play using Prismatic Understanding? I agree to it being one of the “easier” ways to play. Or, dare I say cheap. But you know what. I see cheap builds being used by all professions, all the time. And, every profession has “that one build”. It doesn’t bother me if someone playing Mesmer wants to use our version of such a build, when every Thief, Warrior, Elementalist, Engineer, Necromancer, Guardian and Ranger runs around with their versions of flavor builds.

Personally, I don’t get mad over seeing Mesmers do anything. Because, we, are the coolest most awesome things to ever grace the battlefield. No matter how we play, we look absolutely brilliantly awesome. Those other professions got nothing on our grace in battle. Keep fighting, Mesmers. Enjoy the builds and way of playing that works for you. When I see you in the battlefields, it’s always a delight to watch.

i dont care if people play pu.. my point is.. if you play staff because of its defensive nature… then you play torch because of its defensive naturre… then you play decoy/massinvis/viel because of thier defesive nature.. or trade veil for condi cleanse because of its defesive nature… then your spec is?

just saying that greatsword is more offesive choice even in a condi build.. you will lay down alot more bleeds with greatsword then you will with staff imo. so if your plan is mostly to play slow blink around alot.. stealth alot.. eventually win a fight.. staff may be a good choice.. or if you die alot(the same reason you would take pu) then that is fine.. if you want to condi bomb someone i wouldnt rely on staff for that as much.

after patch.. i wont say how strong ie will be till after testing.. but it will most likely be op.

I bet this is how your teachers sound between classes.

Absconditus.6804:

Simonoly.4352:

I do roll my eyes when I see other Mesmers trying to stack swiftness with Temporal Curtain. Although it’s perfectly possible that this “feature” is not as widely known as I thought.

Some Mesmers will throw it down to try help people that may be falling behind in WvW though, since you know, they already have the Swiftness as they’re in the pack, so why not help out those that are slightly too far behind, losing their Swiftness. Just in defense of some Mesmers at least, haha.

Very true. I can get on board with this :-)

You can play Torch offensively, breaking the Stealth as soon as it’s used, though Stealth is by nature defensive, so.. yeah, if you want to use Torch, you’re using a defensive-styled weapon. The Phantasm is also defensive, it applies Confusion, a condition to make players not attack you (in theory) and Retaliation on yourself, which has the same purpose. The damage will come naturally after a short delay even if you break the Stealth should you so choose however. It’s our only Blast Finisher as well, should you be using it for that purpose. I’m not to say you can’t, perhaps you have great synergy with someone by timing it.

Decoy is a Stun Break, you use it if you get zapped in the noggin. That is defensive play at its core, so yeah, you take that for defensive purposes. Otherwise, you can use it to Stealth and re-position yourself, or to create a quick clone. There’s some versatility to it.

Veil is entirely based on being a defensive skill, be that if you wish to carry a Light Field to Combo Retaliation from, or for the Stealth purpose in a solo and/or group scenario. No matter how you look at it, it’s defensive. So yeah, if you wish to carry Veil, you’re taking it for defensive purposes. Same deal with Mass Invisibility. But really now, what other Elites do we really have that’s tied to our profession, that’s even remotely a better option? Moa? A single-target skill that lets your target dash away while evading. Time Warp? A skill that completely messes up skill rotations that players may have? I personally tend to run Reaper of Grenth as a Human, but that’s not a Mesmer Elite. If I was tied to using Mesmer skills only, I’d likely go for Mass Invisibility, it’s defensive, and it has the shortest recharge period.

And are you implying that because you’d use Decoy, Veil and Mass Invisibility, you must obviously be automatically forced into using Prismatic Understanding? Because that’s being short sighted and if there’s one thing I hate seeing in other Mesmers, it’s that. Veil, is a supportive defense for an entire World vs. World zerg of players. It allows players to get in close to enemy players without being the direct target of skills. Personally, I don’t find Veil to be all that “required”, but hey, it’s something other professions wants, so I don’t mind tossing it into my bar now and again when it’s asked for. Decoy, is a Stun Break, it also has Stealth for slipping away should you be the target of a harassing squad (very likely, Mesmers gets singled out quickly), and it creates a clone. Mass Invisibility, awesome for saving your buddy and/or buddies who has been downed and are about to get stomped. It lasts long enough to in pretty much all cases get your buddy up from the floor to continue fighting and preventing the enemy team from rallying. None of that was to gain Boons from Prismatic Understanding.

And let’s be fair here, unless you have 100% Critical Chance, you are likely looking at a single stack of Bleed from each Greatsword clone on average. By all means, go test it out on some PvE enemies. Create a single clone and see how many stacks it can produce for you. Then do the same with a Staff clone. The Greatsword clone is hardly any better than a Staff clone that can apply two stacks at a given time. Staff clones can even provide Burning, which is a far stronger condition. They additionally are a source of Fury. Both weapons are equally good at stacking Might, though I reckon with the IE fix, Staff will win that war. The Staff Phantasm will do severely higher damage if the target has a number of conditions on it, more so in a offensive Power build, though the Greatsword Phantasm can hit multiple targets and does not rely on the target(s) having conditions. Staff has a Leap Finisher, the absolutely awesome Chaos Armor, and a Ethereal field that allows for such awesomeness to be created not only upon yourself, but other allies as well, even by the Mesmer, with proper used timing of the Torch. In synergy with Immobilize and Stuns, it can be really damaging to the enemy player(s) caught in it as well. Greatsword on the other hand has a very useful Boon strip and a Knockback that allows you to push players off of cliffs and/or out of such things as a Shadow Refuge. They are both good weapons. One is a bit more defensive, but is hardly worse as an option for offensive support. You can also carry both, so there’s no reason you can’t have the best of both worlds, combined.

you just said a whole bunch of garbage without testing.. when i tested both alot. so.. less typing more testing.

i have played 50-100 games or more with both weapon sets.. scepter/torch staff.. scepter/torch greatsword… scepter/pistol greatsword… scepter/pistol staff..

the most offensive and damaging spec out of them imo is scepter/pistol greatsword.. if you want to test how bleeds are applied by the weapons in a passive situation.. just go summon 3 clones of each on the immortal training dummy.. in game it takes more thought because dodge clones attack youur closest enemy not the person you have targeted.

and that is even when playing each spec as offensive as i can get them… torch/staff with blathazars mantra heal.. pistol/gsword krait.. and any mix of runes signets.

not to say that playing defensive is bad.. but you have to think of (what is the point of my build) (what job does my spec fill in a game) (is my spec doing its job well)

the more defensive you make your spec the worse your spec is at doing its job.. because it is never the job of mesmer to bunker…

and i do not even play pu.. btw. this kinda turned into a condi conversation more then a pu conversation.

Play PU and then complain when they lose to a shatter mesmer.

Throw down a chaos storm right where the enemy is while the mesmer is way far away. (Use that kitten as a zoning skill kitten it, so good for directing enemy movement and giving you defensive boons)

Complain when losing to other classes, but refusing to learn how to dodge the appropriate skills and just spamming dodges to get clones

Spamming all the skills on a weapon, mainly staff or gs.

During duels always engaging the same way. GS aa GS aa, iZerker, mirror blade in that order every kittening time guys. You do that kitten I will dodge the zerker, kite the blade and be up cds on you already. Makes me sad inside.

When playing sword, being predictable with mind wracks. You don’t need to land a sword 3 to mind wrack people. Not even burst has to being a sw3 → sw2 + mind wrack.

Oh, I’m sorry almighty zaxon, you must clearly have tested it out extensively since you stated that Greatsword clones attack without delay. Oh wait, they don’t. There’s a 3 and roughly 3/4 of a seconds period between each cycle, including that 1 seconds delay between each attack rotation that all clones have. The same applies to Staff clones, although they attack ever so slightly faster at roughly one attack every 3 seconds. Who’s talking garbage here? By all means, go and test these things for yourself, I did so well over a year ago.

In your written example above, Staff is even superior for crying out loud. It has no penalty for being up close, unlike the Greatsword, which greatly reduces the damage it produces from auto attacks. A Staff clone can be generated point blank, guaranteed to be the target you want without there being any penalty to it. And Staff auto-attack is also adding to Bleeds, Burn and the Might and Fury stacking, and being close, is sort of needed if you want to get those bounces to hit you. Again, how are Greatsword, better, in a condition oriented build. All I’m seeing here, is a clone that provides less condition potential on average. Why I said.. try it out. Only the clone. See how many stacks it is contributing over everything else you’re doing. The Pistol Phantasm is contributing far greater stacks than a Greatsword clone. The Greatsword clone, is not a great source of Bleeds, unless you run full Assassin’s and have 100% Critical Chance, which would make the whole idea moot, since your Bleed damage would be abysmal at best.

It’s perfectly alright to use Greatsword, but it’s not a better weapon for conditions. It’s a different weapon. It’s more offensively structured, sure, but there are defensive sides to that weapon as well. The Knockback is one, as is the Cripple from the Phantasm. You also didn’t answer if you meant that taking Decoy, Veil and Mass Invisibility should automatically mean you’re a PU player, even though I gave you reasonable reasons as to why you carry them without it being for PU what so ever. But never mind that, that’s just garbage of course.

go nuts.. instead of going in game and testing what one applys more conditions you just chatted it out on the forums. i was just trying to help.. but do whatever you want. you want to win a forum conversation more then you want to find out the actual answer..

you are the forum version of pu mesmer.. instead of actually being usefull you just drag out the conversation with garbage until the other person dosent care about it anymore and leaves.

Oh, grow up. Did you just take your own advice here and test it? Guess what, I am currently logged in playing, tabbing out once in a while to read the forums because I’m not doing anything specific, and I did just perform the tests again to double check before I wrote what I wrote. Did.. you? It sure doesn’t seem like it.

I tested auto attack stacks from Staff and Greatsword clones again, in a condition oriented build, with varying amounts of Critical Chance, even going as high as 70%, which is way too high in a condition centered build, and was rather stepping on it being a hybrid build, there’s a difference. I had to swap in some pieces of Assassin’s to reach that and my Condition Damage suffered for it. Greatsword clones were consistently creating on average 1 stack of Bleeding. Once in a while, two, but the same goes for Staff clones. They weren’t better than one another on that front, though the Staff clones were producing Might and Fury on me in the process. With Illusionary Elasticity being fixed, getting an additional bounce is going to help these clones further.

You see, unlike perhaps you, I don’t tend to pull data out of the thin air. And keep in mind that you’re typing here in the forums as well, so you could take your own advice there. Do the tests and don’t just write random facts with no factual basis beyond what your gut feeling is, because at least that’s what it seems like, since you’re not presenting any sort of numbers and such things as an average, only “this works better in my opinion”. If you’ve gotten your stance through actual testing to see what each individual parts of your setup is doing, then you have my apologies, you’ve tested it. If it’s purely from having played with x and y, then no, that’s not testing, that’s playing without knowing what your specific tools are doing. Greatsword clones attacks without delay.. pfft. When presented with counters to your arguments, such as actual uses for Mass Invisibility in a team oriented setting, you’re saying the other person is spewing garbage and should go do tests, unlike yourself, because you’re above testing. Yeah, you come off as a brilliant Mesmer. That’s not to say you’re not a good player, you very well may be and I probably think you are. But really now, you shouldn’t preach and say someone should go do their tests, that they shouldn’t be on the forums and should spend their time testing instead, since according to you, they obviously haven’t, when you are clearly here yourself and don’t exactly seem to be doing any tests at all. How is it useful to provide false information? You didn’t even know the Staff clones attack slightly faster, did you? I’d take a guess you had no idea about the actual delay between each attack rotation? Perhaps I’m wrong. You said the Greatsword clones have no delay however. That’s not helping, that’s actually misinforming, be that because of communication errors or lack of knowledge.

Note: As I wrote before, I am not saying Greatsword is a worse weapon, it’s as I said, a different weapon. Both are good. Both can be used for condition builds. But you play with them differently. In the end, it’s different opinions and preferences. I prefer Staff in my condition-oriented (hybrid) builds, not because it’s so much more defensive, but it’s actually one of the things that allows me to chase runners with forwards-going Phase Retreats, and a good source of Might and Fury. You may prefer Greatsword, that’s awesome, and it works for you. Some other person may be all about using both. That works very well also and all the more power to them. I was foremost pointing out that Greatsword clones, do not attack without delay, and do not stack any better Bleeds than a Staff clone.
________

For the fun of it, here’s the kind of Bleed stacks you can reach with 3 Staff clones and auto-attacks. That’s not counting taking one out for an iDuelist which on average adds 5 stacks. That there is also with a bit of a messed up combination of gear, and it’s basically a sub-optimal setup in that screenshot because I was testing these things. The Crit Chance is at only 39% (no Fury) and the Condition Damage is at a measly 1062. Still, this is before Illusionary Elasticity is fixed. I’ve also added a screenshot with 3 Greatsword clones (and auto-attacks, but that doesn’t exactly add Bleeds), and though they were consistently at a worse number, often dipping below 10, they can reach high stacks as well. Both are good for Conditions. On one hand, the GS attacks won’t be adding Burning though, which is another source of good condition damage. Of course, in either case, they are not going to be as easily stacking up the conditions when it comes to PvP. These screenshots were purely taken for the fun of looking at high stacks from clones and auto-attacks only.

if my clones attacks = 1 bleed.. how do 3 =

this conversation is going nowhere really. you do you.. ill do me.. go play.

TW on rams. Most irritating, nonsensical thing I see mesmers doing all the time in EotM and WvW. Seriously, it does nothing on those.

IMO, GS clones bleed stack faster IF you have higher crit chance. Staff clones have the opportunity to bleed 1/3 of time AND also on crit.

If you wand a rapid bleed stack and at range, GS is better. They can crit (bleed) 3 times on a single rotation. If you want to play moderate build up at mid range, staff is better. IE will only works if your clones or you are in range of Winds of Chaos.

GS is an unusual game style for condition, but it can be both, power and condi.

To answer the thread, I don’t hate any mesmers. Even if they play ’’easy’’ or ’’cheap’’ builds. If I decided to play an another build, then I suck it up and assume my build.

All the things I hate seeing mez do have all been said and I will also add that I have been guilty of one or two of them.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Not Shattering I don’t care what build you’re running, learning where and when to pop at LEAST Distortion is crucial. Every build can make effective use of shatters in some way
• Waste Moa As a wiseman once said: “It’s already a 2v1.. why’d you have to turn me into a bird?” Save Moa for even fights and liches/tornados/MM Necros

• Lack Creativity The others are in no particular order but this is my biggest pet peeve versus other Mesmer. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I’d argue that Mesmer offers quite a bit of diversity for people willing to explore. Even if said builds won’t work in the highest end gameplay, Mesmer has so many different playstyles that if you’ve only been playing 1 or 2 types of Mesmer over the past couple years, you don’t know what you’re missing out on!

OMG YAAAAASSSS!
1.SHATTER
Biggest pet part of mesmer is to Shatter! I hate seeing mesmers run around not shattering, i die a little inside when i see it not happen! Besides a clutch distortion to save their butts in a pinch. Where is your mindwracks? Diverson?!? Every build regardless of the traits are meant to be shattered at some point in a duel or team fight. Not to sit there with your Phantasms pounding away at someone. That is like a thief who doesn’t steal, a guardian who doesn’t use virtues, An ele who doesn’t swap attunements?! That is by far enough horror to kick off halloween early and is extremely aweful gameplay. Imo, i declare any mesmer who doesn’t shatter; bad.

2. Incorrect Moa Usage
Again, i couldn’t agree more! Moa for 1 is underused, but when used correctly it can pay off. For lich’s, turret engi’s, MM necro’s. Beyond the fact people using it on random people at a bad timing when you could’ve used it on those examples. I’ve been moa’d personally and ate soo much dmg from a mesmer who wouldn’t let me escape their grasp via MOA 5&2 skill, but simply didn’t finish me off. IF they only mindwracked to finish the job. So many escapes cause a mesmer failed to shatter :/

3 Build Diversity.
I hate Mesmer’s who only play PU and kinda despise people who only play Shatter specs. Like you are missing out on soo many other builds Mesmer could be running! Confounding suggestions, Chaotic interruption, Healing shatter, Power Block, Mantra builds, Signit builds, clone death! Don’t stick to the meta, stray away from the normals cause Mesmer kit is wondrous and is meant to be there for you to toy with people’s mind! So get to it! Those that know me, know i am always playing something new, changing sigils around, weapons, Traits, builds.

TL;DR
Shatter!!!! Use moa right! Get creative with your builds!
Also I’m a big fan of Asuran mesmers! For shatter ofc, since a node becomes a playground for you to move around in. My asuran mesmer is named Asuran Mesmers

Absconditus just went in. +1

(and Zax unless you were having really bad luck, staff clones should outdamage the Gs clones. Also testing on a static target doesn’t take into account Condi cleanses, which is a bigger problem if you’re banking on bleeds as a main damage source.)

yup.. bad luck i guess. continue on with what you are doing.. very accurate test btw. your staff produced lower bleeds even when you were using pve food and auto attacking with it and with 40 percent crit you will have lower bleeds.. if your build has a plan to stack bleeds with crit.. and you test it in gear with 38 crit yes your results will be poor.. but the fact that i need to explain this stuff even for a test just makes the whole conversation silly.

it dosent matter anyway because after the patch staff will blow gsword away. soo. last post.. waste of time. seee you after patch.

zaxon.6819:

his test was just as static.. as you can see the clones are just piled up auto attacking.. which i agree is how the test should go.. and he still produced less bleeds even with both kinds of food equipped.

The difference is that GS in general has the capability to produce many fewer conditions than staff. GS is limited to vuln, bleed, and cripple. Staff can do bleed, burn, vuln, cripple, confusion, blind, poison, and chill. When in a real situation where condition cleanses are being used, cover conditions become incredibly important in maintaining your damaging conditions.