Guild Wars 2

If you want to give insight as to why you prefer mantra builds then people will also discuss why they used to use mantra builds and why they no longer use them. To call the opposition narrow-minded for offering rebuttals is an attempt to have no discussion at all. Since these are forums, discussion will happen whether you like it or not. In this sense, your claimed intent doesn’t mean anything. Learn to deal with constructive criticism or don’t bother posting at all.

KingZmaN.6473:

Lastly, a team is a team, you have members who are designated to fulfill certain roles, all based on each team-member’s strengths and how the team as a whole meshes with each team-member’s strength, translating, if the team as a whole is exceptional and can win with all team-members using a healing based build then there’s nothing “terrible” about it.

This is just terrible logic.
The team can be great and win while still using terrible builds. They just need to put in extra effort/skill to outplay the opposition. That doesn’t mean their builds are no longer terrible. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t better builds out there. That doesn’t mean their builds don’t have any glaring flaws.

So no you did not cover the team thing. You also didn’t cover the team thing for your build specifically. Roles are not just based on strengths but also weaknesses. As others have stated, your build doesn’t have much strength in the PvP format of the game. It also has a HUGE weakness as far as defenses go. For a team to try and cover your weakness well would be a huge drain on team resources.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

If you want to give insight as to why you prefer mantra builds then people will also discuss why they used to use mantra builds and why they no longer use them. To call the opposition narrow-minded for offering rebuttals is an attempt to have no discussion at all. Since these are forums, discussion will happen whether you like it or not. In this sense, your claimed intent doesn’t mean anything. Learn to deal with constructive criticism or don’t bother posting at all.

KingZmaN.6473:

Lastly, a team is a team, you have members who are designated to fulfill certain roles, all based on each team-member’s strengths and how the team as a whole meshes with each team-member’s strength, translating, if the team as a whole is exceptional and can win with all team-members using a healing based build then there’s nothing “terrible” about it.

This is just terrible logic.
The team can be great and win while still using terrible builds. They just need to put in extra effort/skill to outplay the opposition. That doesn’t mean their builds are no longer terrible. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t better builds out there. That doesn’t mean their builds don’t have any glaring flaws.

So no you did not cover the team thing. You also didn’t cover the team thing for your build specifically. Roles are not just based on strengths but also weaknesses. As others have stated, your build doesn’t have much strength in the PvP format of the game. It also has a HUGE weakness as far as defenses go. For a team to try and cover your weakness well would be a huge drain on team resources.

Just as you vocalized everyone’s right to discuss in whatever manner they see fit, your vocalization includes me as well.

Additionally, “constructive criticism” I respond to with no problem at all, though, “biased criticism” I simply ‘tear down’ as others have been trying to do regarding this topic.

You’re entire logic regarding teams undermines itself, you say if a team wins with builds deemed “terrible” doesn’t make the builds no longer “terrible”, so the contradiction is, if the build itself is so inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) then no matter how much effort one (or a group) puts into playing said inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) build they cannot win, though yet, they did win meaning the build itself is not inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) as stated.

And I did cover the team thing, continuing on, I already addressed that it was never my attention to discuss my mantra build outside of what I presented in my extra text file.

Another example of a misguided remark, revealing that you also, have spoken void of the context of the previous person’s remark or the information I’ve shared or the conversation topics I’ve already responded, of which you are defending, thus, proving my “narrow-minded” context with your very own reply post.

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and, I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees with them regarding Mantras, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

KingZmaN.6473:

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

We don’t care what you do or do not believe. We just want to make it abundantly clear to newer players who might stop by this thread that full mantras is not a viable playstyle. We don’t want this to be the case, I’d love it if full mantras was actually a thing that could be done…but it’s not. All of us here have come to terms with that reality, even the most steadfast mantra proponents (Fay). They simply aren’t good enough to truly base a build around.

Again, I think it’s about time you stopped talking and started doing. You say this build is good, you say you’re good with it, you say it can work. Record it. Show us. Prove us all wrong.

Not running stun breaks is entirely up to you. Feel free to die more than you would otherwise. However, don’t be surprised if your team mates are not happy with you and the other side laugh.

KingZmaN.6473:

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and, I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees with them regarding Mantras, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

I don’t want to jump in on the bandwagon of ganging up on you, but as a greatsword staff shatter mesmer I will chip your health down at 1200 range away before dropping you in a shatter combo, with teleports inbetween.

Want a viable mantra build? Play a lockdown build with mantra of distraction and the mantra heal, saves you two useful utilities and you will have a lot more fun locking people down. 6-4-4-0-0 or 4-4-6-0-0.

Duelling a Mesmer using a Valkyrie Amulet just now to prove how the damage comes quickly and is impossible to react, this was after he’d stealthed and used distortion and the fight lasted about 25 seconds (sorry if you see this it was a fun fight). You can see that my Mirror Images and diversion were off cooldown during this also.

EDIT I’m not hating on you, and I appreciate that you share your builds and ideas, but what people have said here is trying to be constructive.

KingZmaN.6473:

Just as you vocalized everyone’s right to discuss in whatever manner they see fit, your vocalization includes me as well.

Additionally, “constructive criticism” I respond to with no problem at all, though, “biased criticism” I simply ‘tear down’ as others have been trying to do regarding this topic.

You’re entire logic regarding teams undermines itself, you say if a team wins with builds deemed “terrible” doesn’t make the builds no longer “terrible”, so the contradiction is, if the build itself is so inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) then no matter how much effort one (or a group) puts into playing said inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) build they cannot win, though yet, they did win meaning the build itself is not inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) as stated.

And I did cover the team thing, continuing on, I already addressed that it was never my attention to discuss my mantra build outside of what I presented in my extra text file.

Another example of a misguided remark, revealing that you also, have spoken void of the context of the previous person’s remark or the information I’ve shared or the conversation topics I’ve already responded, of which you are defending, thus, proving my “narrow-minded” context with your very own reply post.

Sure you have the “right” to post here but it doesn’t give you the right to be right. If you won’t listen to any advice/constructive criticism I see no point to you posting because you are being self defeating. As pyro has stated, at this point this is beyond you. It’s about making sure no one else picks up on your bad advice.

The best players out there can use terrible builds and stomp noobs. Just because highly skilled players make the choice to handicap themselves doesn’t mean that those builds are good builds. If you cannot understand this on a fundamental level then watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8qQ-CZvL3Y
Among a few topics, it’s the top team in EU talking about how their builds aren’t perfect and they will continue to optimize them. If you somehow think that you are better than them and don’t need to improve, I have nothing more to say.

Ironically, he might have a biased opinion on the definition of biased. But that’s impossible since neutrality begins with him.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

KingZmaN.6473:

Just as you vocalized everyone’s right to discuss in whatever manner they see fit, your vocalization includes me as well.

Additionally, “constructive criticism” I respond to with no problem at all, though, “biased criticism” I simply ‘tear down’ as others have been trying to do regarding this topic.

You’re entire logic regarding teams undermines itself, you say if a team wins with builds deemed “terrible” doesn’t make the builds no longer “terrible”, so the contradiction is, if the build itself is so inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) then no matter how much effort one (or a group) puts into playing said inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) build they cannot win, though yet, they did win meaning the build itself is not inherently flawed (ie, “terrible”) as stated.

And I did cover the team thing, continuing on, I already addressed that it was never my attention to discuss my mantra build outside of what I presented in my extra text file.

Another example of a misguided remark, revealing that you also, have spoken void of the context of the previous person’s remark or the information I’ve shared or the conversation topics I’ve already responded, of which you are defending, thus, proving my “narrow-minded” context with your very own reply post.

Sure you have the “right” to post here but it doesn’t give you the right to be right. If you won’t listen to any advice/constructive criticism I see no point to you posting because you are being self defeating. As pyro has stated, at this point this is beyond you. It’s about making sure no one else picks up on your bad advice.

The best players out there can use terrible builds and stomp noobs. Just because highly skilled players make the choice to handicap themselves doesn’t mean that those builds are good builds. If you cannot understand this on a fundamental level then watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8qQ-CZvL3Y
Among a few topics, it’s the top team in EU talking about how their builds aren’t perfect and they will continue to optimize them. If you somehow think that you are better than them and don’t need to improve, I have nothing more to say.

Only others have introduced the context of “right” and “wrong” in terms of class builds, and just as the liberty I have to ‘post’ here, so others have taken the same liberty and asserted their contexts (ie, opinion, belief, thought, or whatever else you want to call it) as “right” or “wrong”.

Quite honestly, the only individuals here proving they can’t take “constructive criticism” are the ones not accepting and, apparently from your statement “We just want to make it abundantly clear to newer players who might stop by this thread that full mantras is not a viable playstyle.”, the ones not wanting others accept any notion in favor of using Mantras.

Pyroathiest.4168:

KingZmaN.6473:

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

We don’t care what you do or do not believe. We just want to make it abundantly clear to newer players who might stop by this thread that full mantras is not a viable playstyle. We don’t want this to be the case, I’d love it if full mantras was actually a thing that could be done…but it’s not. All of us here have come to terms with that reality, even the most steadfast mantra proponents (Fay). They simply aren’t good enough to truly base a build around.

Again, I think it’s about time you stopped talking and started doing. You say this build is good, you say you’re good with it, you say it can work. Record it. Show us. Prove us all wrong.

You are no one to which I need to prove anything too.

As Benjamin said lockdown builds with 2 mantras (heal+distraction) are ok, you can use Decoy and Blink as stunbreakers, heal + Mender´s Purity gives you decent condition remove if you need it.
I´m running a build like this in wvw atm (so my stats are much higher than yours, both defensive and offensive) and still the cast time of the mantras is sometimes annoying. Smart players will attack you as soon as they see the mantra casting animation, so they get at least 2 seconds for a burst and/or interrupt. Of course you can try to cover those weak spots with Decoy+mantra cast or other combinations, but you don´t have any skill that helps you in this way. If I ever see a full mantra build while playing interrupt/lockdown, I will eat it alive.

I use mantras. I love non-meta builds. But your build is just lacking the tools to make mantras work. A lot of people have stressed this fact before here, I just wanted to give you the perspective of an other mantra user and show you interrupt builds as a more viable option for those who like to play with mantras.

KingZmaN.6473:

Handin.4032:

Look, I’ll make an offer: if you want to message me any time I’m in game, we can try to set up a 1v1. Then I can show you the flaws of the build.

You keep mentioning how insightful this build is. I just don’t see it, and I did read your text file. It seems like you’re so set on using something “different” that you’re essentially gimping yourself. You’re using the excuse that a mesmer with lots of skill will do well anyways. BUT, a very skilled mesmer, using a proven very useful build, will be even better. In tpvp you have to build for whats best for your team. If you die every engagement because you have no stun breakers, or are glass even though its a sustain build (which means you really should be running like knights or valk), what are you going to tell your team? “Sorry, I’m actually a skilled mesmer, I’m just running a build you wouldn’t understand?”. There is a reason people run condi clone death, or shatter, or phantasm builds. They’re reliable, well tested builds. I know quite a few veteran mesmers that wish mantras, or signets, or anything else would be more viable in tpvp, but right now they’re just not.

As stated before, it doesn’t matter what your text file says, it doesn’t matter how great you feel the build is. I’ve been there, where I was so sure I found the next great build (signets), but I was wrong. In the end, the weaknesses of your build are too great to counter any benefits.

I did not come here to issue out challenges, furthermore, I already covered the “team-member” dynamic with:

KingZmaN.6473:

…
Lastly, a team is a team, you have members who are designated to fulfill certain roles, all based on each team-member’s strengths and how the team as a whole meshes with each team-member’s strength, translating, if the team as a whole is exceptional and can win with all team-members using a healing based build then there’s nothing “terrible” about it.

The point of this topic was to SHARE MY MANTRA BUILD AND PROVIDE INSIGHT AS TO WHY I PREFER TO USE MY MANTRA BUILD, and, not to convince others as to why my mantra build is better than using other builds.

Honestly, remarks wouldn’t be so misguided if people “took the time”/“exerted the effort” to actually understand what I’m sharing and my intentions for sharing.

So why you “defending” this build from ppl who say they see flaws in it?
If it was like what you said you should have responded with comments like “Ok,thank you for your insight”.You try to convince WHY YOUR BUILD IS SUPERIOR TO ANY OTHER BUILD and that build is kind of mantra build and it is well known that mantras need to rework and this build is defiantly worse than the usual one so your tries are worthless.

As you stated, you don’t feel the need to justify yourself to dirty filthy human beings like Pyro, but this made me remember that the burden of proof lays on the claim maker. So while you might not feel moved by any particular person in this thread, it is a fair and reasonable general request for their to be evidence (such as a gameplay vid) to support your claims, wouldn’t you agree?

Also there’s plenty of statements being thrown around, but I have a question for you. Using your build, what do you do, or should a user do in the scenario where you get stunned/stun locked?

Schattenlied.4873:

As Benjamin said lockdown builds with 2 mantras (heal+distraction) are ok, you can use Decoy and Blink as stunbreakers, heal + Mender´s Purity gives you decent condition remove if you need it.
I´m running a build like this in wvw atm (so my stats are much higher than yours, both defensive and offensive) and still the cast time of the mantras is sometimes annoying. Smart players will attack you as soon as they see the mantra casting animation, so they get at least 2 seconds for a burst and/or interrupt. Of course you can try to cover those weak spots with Decoy+mantra cast or other combinations, but you don´t have any skill that helps you in this way. If I ever see a full mantra build while playing interrupt/lockdown, I will eat it alive.

I use mantras. I love non-meta builds. But your build is just lacking the tools to make mantras work. A lot of people have stressed this fact before here, I just wanted to give you the perspective of an other mantra user and show you interrupt builds as a more viable option for those who like to play with mantras.

I understand your play-style, it’s kewl, I just like using 4 mantras is all.

KingZmaN.6473:

Schattenlied.4873:

As Benjamin said lockdown builds with 2 mantras (heal+distraction) are ok, you can use Decoy and Blink as stunbreakers, heal + Mender´s Purity gives you decent condition remove if you need it.
I´m running a build like this in wvw atm (so my stats are much higher than yours, both defensive and offensive) and still the cast time of the mantras is sometimes annoying. Smart players will attack you as soon as they see the mantra casting animation, so they get at least 2 seconds for a burst and/or interrupt. Of course you can try to cover those weak spots with Decoy+mantra cast or other combinations, but you don´t have any skill that helps you in this way. If I ever see a full mantra build while playing interrupt/lockdown, I will eat it alive.

I use mantras. I love non-meta builds. But your build is just lacking the tools to make mantras work. A lot of people have stressed this fact before here, I just wanted to give you the perspective of an other mantra user and show you interrupt builds as a more viable option for those who like to play with mantras.

I understand your play-style, it’s kewl, I just like using 4 mantras is all.

You’re free to like playing however you want. However, when you post a build on the forums saying how good it is, you must be able to prove it. Several of us, who are veteran mesmer players, have came here and stated that, while the build may be fun, it is not all-in-all very great. There are many builds out there that are fun to run, but may not be very good. However, when you run in tpvp, especially if you solo queue for team queue, you’re playing for the team. You must be the best help, and this is why people run specific builds. These are the builds which maximize a mesmers ability to help the team win. Your build, while may be fun, has several massive flaws which mean you will probably hurt your team more than help it.

You are claiming we’re biased, but we’re not. We’re not in some secret mesmer club which is trying to bring uniformity. We like new builds, new metas coming out, etc. BUT, you’re biasing yourself. Your essentially telling people you don’t care what anyone says negatively about your build, because you have all the insight on it and we just can’t understand. If you have fun playing the build, that’s fantastic. However, in order to educate those who may wish to use the build YOU posted on a PUBLIC forums, we’re listing any benefits AND consequences.

Play how you like, no one is telling you to stop playing your build. However, the moment you post it on a public forum, you open it up to be discussed. If you want to run off meta builds, all the more power to you. BUT please don’t come to an open forum, post a build for discussion, then tell everyone who discusses that they’re being trolls for not accepting how insightful and great the build is, and then say you don’t care what people think.

Sandrox.9524:

…
So why you “defending” this build from ppl who say they see flaws in it?
…

Correction, I’m defending what I shared from people who are saying that complete mantra builds are not worth playing, as, that sentiment contradicts the positive experience (which I relayed as “constructive criticism”) regarding a complete mantra build, furthermore, just for the fact you built that entire statement on others seeing flaws in a build you insert the notion that there are builds with no flaws, which is simply not true, therefore, making this statement towards my positive experience (ie, which I relayed as “constructive criticism”) with complete mantra builds irrelevant.

Sandrox.9524:

…
You try to convince WHY YOUR BUILD IS SUPERIOR TO ANY OTHER BUILD and that build is kind of mantra build and it is well known that mantras need to rework and this build is defiantly worse than the usual one so your tries are worthless.

Again, another misguided remark (you guys are on a roll!) as I have never tried to convince anyone that my mantra build is better than other builds, instead, I shared the reasons why I prefer my mantra build. There’s a difference. You should heed the difference before you post replies making you appear ignorant to the material already shared and conversation topics already discussed.

Ross Biddle.2367:

As you stated, you don’t feel the need to justify yourself to dirty filthy human beings like Pyro, but this made me remember that the burden of proof lays on the claim maker. So while you might not feel moved by any particular person in this thread, it is a fair and reasonable general request for their to be evidence (such as a gameplay vid) to support your claims, wouldn’t you agree?

Also there’s plenty of statements being thrown around, but I have a question for you. Using your build, what do you do, or should a user do in the scenario where you get stunned/stun locked?

First, the only social obligation to prove anything is coming from peers in the social medium, and, no where else.

Second, replied to “what do you do when stunned” based conversation topic issued by Pyro on the first page, since you felt the need to ask a similar question, I suggest you go back to the first page and look for my answer.

Handin.4032:

…
Several of us, who are veteran mesmer players, have came here and stated that, while the build may be fun, it is not all-in-all very great.
…

The above translates to, “my experience is different than yours, and, vice-versa”, which, is what I’ve shared.

Handin.4032:

…
However, when you run in tpvp, especially if you solo queue for team queue, you’re playing for the team. You must be the best help, and this is why people run specific builds. These are the builds which maximize a mesmers ability to help the team win. Your build, while may be fun, has several massive flaws which mean you will probably hurt your team more than help it.
…

Teams can operate in various ways which is utterly subject to each member of the team and each member’s strengths, so to suggest that a team-member playing a class has only one or a few builds that can assist the team as a whole when the strengths/weakness of each team-member is not known, quite frankly, is illogical.

Handin.4032:

…
You are claiming we’re biased, but we’re not. We’re not in some secret mesmer club which is trying to bring uniformity. We like new builds, new metas coming out, etc. BUT, you’re biasing yourself. Your essentially telling people you don’t care what anyone says negatively about your build, because you have all the insight on it and we just can’t understand. If you have fun playing the build, that’s fantastic. However, in order to educate those who may wish to use the build YOU posted on a PUBLIC forums, we’re listing any benefits AND consequences.
…

That’s good to know, and, listing “pros”/“cons” is fine, though, that’s not all that’s being stated and it is the biased narrow-minded aggressive nigh mock condemnation of complete mantra builds which I rebut, as again, contradicts my positive experience (which I shared as “constructive criticism”) regarding complete mantra builds.

Handin.4032:

…
then tell everyone who discusses that they’re being trolls for not accepting how insightful and great the build is, and then say you don’t care what people think.
…

For the fact that you’re asserting your ill perception of replies (from others and myself) as fact, so far so, to put words in my mouth that I never said, you have lost all validity of a “neutral” or “helpful” position to anyone coming to this topic.

There’s only one person that I called a TROLL, and that’ s Pyro.

All my topic antagonists, quite frankly, are conversational newbs.

You come in, try to bash/condemn whatever you don’t agree with in any way can, just so you can… I don’t even know what the real objectives are in my topic antagonists’ replies, but it’s clear, that my topic antagonists’ did not come to amicably converse, instead, to defame/debase any notion contrary to theirs.

Which I once iterated here:

The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and, I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees with them regarding Mantras, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras.

Every positive and constructive thing I say regarding complete mantra builds, my topic antagonists’ seek to decimate, then have the gall, to slander me as doing the same the positive and constructive words of others.

While there are times that Pyro can be rather harsh, from looking at his original post that you labeled as “TROLL”… well, I just don’t see it. On top of that, his post is rather well thought out and presented, showing why running full mantras tends to be bad (and in my experience, I would agree that a full mantra build, while good for an initial spike perhaps, is pretty weak). The fact that there isn’t a single person replying to you in support of your full mantra build should tell you something.

My friend, you make numerous claims of narrow mindedness to others. You really might want to look in the mirror to find the truth of that.

Have fun with your mantra build – glad you enjoy it. For most (almost all) players, there are better mesmer builds out there.

Full mantra build is bad, and (sorry to say, no offence) your build especialy(i would change mantra of resolve for mantra of concetration(pvp, wvw wthout stun breake is rather poor choice) and take mendons purity over compounding power), it has lower burst potential than shatter, less dmg than phantasm, lower sustain than any condi, and you can engage combat with full potential only once(because of mantra charge) CI, PU full lockdown builds can be merged with mantras, and be efective but taking four at once…well you can play that way if you like giving handicap to your enemy

Your “Antagonists” came here to tell you, in no small terms, mantra builds are sub-par everywhere, having no stun breaks is bad, and it is, in no way, worth using your build over others.

Sure, I would love to see mantra’s be viable, but that is not the case, this is fact, you cannot change that.

“The simple truth of the matter is, there those that want me to believe as they believe regarding Mantras, and, I’m simply saying that I do not believe as you nor will I believe as you regarding Mantras.

And they simply can’t or won’t accept someone disagrees with them regarding Mantras, so they continually try to ‘tear down’ any notion in favor of using Mantras."

As I just said, it is a fact that mantras are subpar. This has been proven so many times over the last year. You say that people can’t/won’t accept when someone disagrees with them about mantra’s? You are doing exactly that it seems to be that you refuse to accept the fact that your build is sub-par, mantras are pretty bad, and that the majority of Mesmer’s here replying to you agree with that.

Edit: I get the feeling this thread will be locked soon, then again, I doubt there are any Devs anywhere near the Mesmer forums ^^

To be fair this thread probably should be locked.

Neurophen.9738:

To be fair this thread probably should be locked.

Before it reached the second page. Nothing fruitful here.

KingZmaN.6473:

Kaamau.5341:

…
I did, just felt like it didn’t quite make it into your head.

So then you acknowledge you were TROLLING by provoking a conversation piece that you knew was already addressed, furthermore, since this is the mantra build I am using to share in the context of “my mantra build” is not misspoken.

No I want you to understand why it is important that these builds have existed since launch. The Mesmer community is constantly testing and retesting in some cases, builds, so nearly every single possible iteration of runes, armors, small changes in traits and sigils, for a mantra build have already been tested. Which especially in an environment like Spvp where setting up a build takes almost no time at all. If one of these iterations indeed worked to the degree needed for mantra to actually enter the meta, well you wouldn’t be posting this here would you?

I wonder, how many more pages of contrived duplicitous rhetoric from my topic antagonists will be manufactured disavowing what I’ve already shared and what I’ve already addressed.

Truly, my topic antagonists verbiage is of totalitarian proportions, and nigh Shakespearean, considering a game founded on diversity spurred the social community with it’s social medium through which my topic antagonists speak.

Bravi. Bravi.

KingZmaN.6473:

I wonder, how many more pages of contrived duplicitous rhetoric from my topic antagonists will be manufactured disavowing what I’ve already shared and what I’ve already addressed.

Truly, my topic antagonists verbiage is of totalitarian proportions, and nigh Shakespearean, considering a game founded on diversity spurred the social community with it’s social medium through which my topic antagonists speak.

Bravi. Bravi.

Excuse me, are you a Markov Chain Generator* and is this an attempt at the Turing test?

• Example http://utilitymill.com/utility/Markov_Chain_Parody_Text_Generator

KingZmaN.6473:

Ross Biddle.2367:

As you stated, you don’t feel the need to justify yourself to dirty filthy human beings like Pyro, but this made me remember that the burden of proof lays on the claim maker. So while you might not feel moved by any particular person in this thread, it is a fair and reasonable general request for their to be evidence (such as a gameplay vid) to support your claims, wouldn’t you agree?

Also there’s plenty of statements being thrown around, but I have a question for you. Using your build, what do you do, or should a user do in the scenario where you get stunned/stun locked?

First, the only social obligation to prove anything is coming from peers in the social medium, and, no where else.

Second, replied to “what do you do when stunned” based conversation topic issued by Pyro on the first page, since you felt the need to ask a similar question, I suggest you go back to the first page and look for my answer.

So I want back and read and what I took away from your response was “Hope it plays out the way I’ve described otherwise I’m toast.”

Mesmers dont get much stability. We’re also not tanky and can’t sustain a constant beating. Instead Mesmers have been given stun breaks, stealth, and blinks to survive. Your build kind of reminds me of a lonbow ranger. Stand at max distance firing at distracted enemies to wear them down with sustained damage. Rangers never do it but, if engaged, turn and run until target breaks off then continue assault.

I’d hate to be targeted with your build.

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

KingZmaN.6473:

I wonder, how many more pages of contrived duplicitous rhetoric from my topic antagonists will be manufactured disavowing what I’ve already shared and what I’ve already addressed.

Truly, my topic antagonists verbiage is of totalitarian proportions, and nigh Shakespearean, considering a game founded on diversity spurred the social community with it’s social medium through which my topic antagonists speak.

Bravi. Bravi.

Are you 12?
People have been giving you constructive criticism for days, and you keep brushing it off as trolling. Even when you pretend to accept their advice, you turn around and spit back in their faces. Now you’ve picked up the thesaurus, and think it makes you sound eloquent. Believe me, I’m not resorting to ad hominem insults, when I say it makes you sound really juvenile.
People above have been trying to tell you the build is not viable. They’ve been discussing the build and its weaknesses. Meanwhile, you’ve been discussing the manner of their responses, and not the content of their responses.
A forum is a place to open discussion. I suggest you be a little more open to the concept, and a little more mindful of basic etiquette.

Well this is 2 pages of solid walls of text so forgive me if i run over something that has been said already.
First up, i think mantra’s are awesome and personally i love working with them. No they might not be perfect for all situations and yes there are people who don’t like using them which is totally fine because they are a unique play style.
Secondly, no it is not viable to base an entire build around mantra’s. As much as all the mantra lovers out there want this to be a “thing” it isn’t. Mantra’s are like a topping to the cake, and the builds in my sig prove it. Yes they are nice to have in a build but not to focus on.

This all being said that does not mean you can’t take the build on here and keep working and refining it until you find something that is viable* which does include mantra’s. I’m sure the community here would be happy to help critique the builds you come up with along the way but in its current state it is not effective or viable.

Dhampyr.2104:

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

Yes, lets do that.

KingZmaN.6473:

I wonder, how many more pages of contrived duplicitous rhetoric from my topic antagonists will be manufactured disavowing what I’ve already shared and what I’ve already addressed.

Truly, my topic antagonists verbiage is of totalitarian proportions, and nigh Shakespearean, considering a game founded on diversity spurred the social community with it’s social medium through which my topic antagonists speak.

Bravi. Bravi.

Funny how you always set yourself up for it too….oh well.

I’m not going to comment on your original post, since I believe you’ve already been met with enough constructive critisism.. And very accurate such! I’m all for build diversity and everyone should play a build that suits their own playstyle and goals. Nevertheless, you should not blatantly ignore advice from more experienced players who have devoted countless hours to the game, and the understanding of its aspects.

After reading your wondrous replies to some of the mesmer community’s biggest contributors, (just check their post history if you question that fact) I have to wonder:

Why post in these forums in the first place if you don’t want constructive critisism from players who have obviously more (even documented) experience in the field? It sort of defeats the purpose of these forums altogether, wouldn’t you say..?

You say that posting pictures was for a social reason, but how social do you come across when responding in the way that you do? I’ve personally had a few breaks here and there since Beta, but I’ve continued to read posts on the mesmer forums during all of those breaks..! Some of the responders to your original post have made the time spent reading these forums very enjoyable, and often a valuable learning experience.

My suggestion is that you also treat it as such, and stop trolling in your own posts.

With that said, I hope you have a wonderful time in game, and continue to evolve!

The insta-cast aspect of mantras is great, but the fact they can’t be recharged simultaneously makes mantras mediocre in actual performance at best. If Anet allowed mantras to recharged simultaneously or raised their usage count more people would use them.

Screw it, im not reading the second page. This thread annoyed me quite a bit at some point, but at least now i know that Mantras are not viable. I was curious about them, i only use the one to give me stability at certain dungeons, or the other to cleanse conditions. Still, i may try a more oriented Mantra build sometime later.

Pokecenter.3548:

Screw it, im not reading the second page. This thread annoyed me quite a bit at some point, but at least now i know that Mantras are not viable. I was curious about them, i only use the one to give me stability at certain dungeons, or the other to cleanse conditions. Still, i may try a more oriented Mantra build sometime later.

Mantras are super viable for dungeons, and appear in most of the maximum DPS builds. The lack of sustain doesn’t matter so much in PvE, where mobs won’t notice you channeling and might not even be alive long enough to require re-charging in fight.

Why do you even bother with this guy? He post a build and then he gets valid replies on why build is not good, so he proceeds to call everyone a troll.
To be honest, he looks more of a troll then anyone else here.

I wanna try talking like this guy, it’s hilarious.

Truly the stubbornness you have shown in lending an ear to the numerous criticisms placed upon your amateurish build have caused me to regard you as a lost cause, thus I bid you adieu and pray earnestly that you never materialize on my pvp roster.

Considering that the very last word of the attached text file is “TROLLED,” I’m inclined to believe that this entire post was a joke from the get-go and the OP has been having everyone on?…

maxinion.8396:

Pokecenter.3548:

Screw it, im not reading the second page. This thread annoyed me quite a bit at some point, but at least now i know that Mantras are not viable. I was curious about them, i only use the one to give me stability at certain dungeons, or the other to cleanse conditions. Still, i may try a more oriented Mantra build sometime later.

Mantras are super viable for dungeons, and appear in most of the maximum DPS builds. The lack of sustain doesn’t matter so much in PvE, where mobs won’t notice you channeling and might not even be alive long enough to require re-charging in fight.

Yeah, i know mantras can increase your dps in a PvE oriented manner, not being a hindrance, tho i never read a specific guide for that. Do you know any builds name that channels mantras so i could check it?

AresFyra.3570:

I’m not going to comment on your original post, since I believe you’ve already been met with enough constructive critisism.. And very accurate such! I’m all for build diversity and everyone should play a build that suits their own playstyle and goals. Nevertheless, you should not blatantly ignore advice from more experienced players who have devoted countless hours to the game, and the understanding of its aspects.

After reading your wondrous replies to some of the mesmer community’s biggest contributors, (just check their post history if you question that fact) I have to wonder:

Why post in these forums in the first place if you don’t want constructive critisism from players who have obviously more (even documented) experience in the field? It sort of defeats the purpose of these forums altogether, wouldn’t you say..?

“more experience” doesn’t mean “only possible experience”, nor does “more experience” entitle someone, especially, in passing off demeaning opinionated dialogue as “constructive criticism”.

You express yourself, but, in a respectful manner, to which, I respond likewise.

Hypothetically, if I see someone new to the game is doing something effective that someone playing since the game’s launch is not doing, I’m not going to ignore/demean what someone new to the game is doing just because their new to the game, and instead, see if what someone new to game is doing will work for me too.

AresFyra.3570:

You say that posting pictures was for a social reason, but how social do you come across when responding in the way that you do? I’ve personally had a few breaks here and there since Beta, but I’ve continued to read posts on the mesmer forums during all of those breaks..! Some of the responders to your original post have made the time spent reading these forums very enjoyable, and often a valuable learning experience.

My suggestion is that you also treat it as such, and stop trolling in your own posts.

In nearly every community, especially gaming communities, you encounter people being hateful and spiteful and derogatory as that’s how they get their kicks or gain their esteem.

I will “tear down” those behave in the aforementioned manner no matter who they are or who they perceive themselves to be, which, is not to be mistaken as trolling my own posts.

AresFyra.3570:

With that said, I hope you have a wonderful time in game, and continue to evolve!

Thanks, you the same :-)

Pyroathiest.4168:

Dhampyr.2104:

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

Yes, lets do that.

Maybe this whole exercise could have been avoided if you hadn’t tried to be so oppressively rhetoric regarding content this forum freely allows individuals to share.

Joonks.7501:

I wanna try talking like this guy, it’s hilarious.

Truly the stubbornness you have shown in lending an ear to the numerous criticisms placed upon your amateurish build have caused me to regard you as a lost cause, thus I bid you adieu and pray earnestly that you never materialize on my pvp roster.

Good show!

You can’t argue with Pyro. He has bulletproof logic, does the math on everything to check if he is correct. If he says something, then it’s almost always so. There’ve been multiple threads already where Pyro got in a debate with players like you regarding some build they thought was the new big thing and was super great. Pyro won each debate. What he is saying is actually tested in the game and what you are saying is theory. Theory doesn’t always apply to the real deal. I enjoyed laughing at the argument you two had.Thank you a lot for it. No offense intended.

Just accept that Pyro is correct here. He is being honest with you and you should respect that(It’s one of the things that I respect him a lot for). I’d rather have people say to my face when something isn’t right than saying it’s good and then talking behind my back and I think every person should have that mindset.

Have a wonderful rest of the day mate, play your build if you enjoy it. It’s what matters.

Much love

~Monns

KingZmaN.6473:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Dhampyr.2104:

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

Yes, lets do that.

Maybe this whole exercise could have been avoided if you hadn’t tried to be so oppressively rhetoric regarding content this forum freely allows individuals to share.

This thread was effectively dead, and you necro’ed it. Something tells me that you get some sort of validation from the responses.

Constructive discussion ended in this thread a long time ago.

Jurica.1742:

You can’t argue with Pyro. He has bulletproof logic, does the math on everything to check if he is correct. … What he is saying is actually tested in the game and what you are saying is theory. Theory doesn’t always apply to the real deal. I enjoyed laughing at the argument you two had.Thank you a lot for it. No offense intended.

Bulletproof is not the case, though, tested I can presume.

I play and win often with my build, so, I speak from my experience which apparently contrasts what so many others believe.

Well, at least it was entertainment for you (and possibly others) ;-p

Jurica.1742:

Just accept that Pyro is correct here.
…
Have a wonderful rest of the day mate, play your build if you enjoy it. It’s what matters.

Much love

~Monns

Sorry, can’t do that.

Thx, be easy.

Dhampyr.2104:

KingZmaN.6473:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Dhampyr.2104:

I’m pretty sure we can let this thread die and nobody would miss it.

Yes, lets do that.

Maybe this whole exercise could have been avoided if you hadn’t tried to be so oppressively rhetoric regarding content this forum freely allows individuals to share.

… Something tells me that you get some sort of validation from the responses.

Constructive discussion ended in this thread a long time ago.

Well, that couldn’t be more off, at first it was entertaining to counter all the hate (oh, I’m sorry, “constructive criticism”) but now I just reply when I’m bored.

Didn’t know if you knew this, but, you can always not reply.

As this thread has gone wildly off topic, can someone please close it? Please?