Guild Wars 2

hi,

just curious if anyone that’s active on here got into the beta, just curious to see any info related to Mesmers in HOT…

This was apparently just a stress test in a very limited area of the expansion. No new news.

Nothing really new. Two things to note:
1) The wyvern fight is a cakewalk if a 6/6/0/2/0 mantra interrupt build is used. You can pretty much solo the breakbar, traited mantra heal will cleanse any burning off if you stand in the wrong place, MoC will cover you if you get caught in the wind push back. I pretty much just pretended this was Dark Souls and stood underneath his butt the entire time.
2) Moa morph doesn’t affect the breakbar.

Also, all the beta characters were forced into running celestial stats with dolyak runes and force sigils. My mesmer was created running the sPvP double ranged shatter build automatically (at least weapons and traitwise)

According to my guildy in the beta Revenat IS the new specialisation for Mesmer…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

Simonoly.4352:

According to my guildy in the beta Revenat IS the new specialisation for Mesmer…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

Looks like we may be getting more competition in one of our “niches”.

On one hand, poo.

On the other, the more boon removal in the game, the less likely boon-stacking will be an effective meta.

Sebrent.3625:

Simonoly.4352:

According to my guildy in the beta Revenat IS the new specialisation for Mesmer…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

Looks like we may be getting more competition in one of our “niches”.

On one hand, poo.

On the other, the more boon removal in the game, the less likely boon-stacking will be an effective meta.

Just look at the power of that. It’s a utility, 20s cd, .5s cast time. Removes boons, stacks healthy confusion, AoE, targets 5, 600 range, UNBLOCKABLE. WTF, Mesmer skills/utils get some buffs already.

Let’s compare:
Mimic: 30s cd, 1/4 cast time, 900 range, single target, unblockable, crap.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sebrent.3625:

Simonoly.4352:

According to my guildy in the beta Revenat IS the new specialisation for Mesmer…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment

Looks like we may be getting more competition in one of our “niches”.

On one hand, poo.

On the other, the more boon removal in the game, the less likely boon-stacking will be an effective meta.

Just look at the power of that. It’s a utility, 20s cd, .5s cast time. Removes boons, stacks healthy confusion, AoE, targets 5, 600 range, UNBLOCKABLE. WTF, Mesmer skills/utils get some buffs already.

Let’s compare:
Mimic: 30s cd, 1/4 cast time, 900 range, single target, unblockable, crap.

This is the exact same thing that happened in World of Warcraft with the Deathknight: Devs go crazy giving the new class better versions of existing mechanics and end up creating a super class, without fixing/improving the other classes in dire need of attention; if your class sucks roll a Revenant, problem solved!

Hahaha. That’s not a CD that’s an energy costs. Revs Like thieves don’t have cool.downs

Yea, played him today too. Ridiculously strong… Immediately stack 15 stacks confusion and then consume your vuln stacks. Just no ANet. Same goes for the stability field. 100% uptime, permanently 5 stacks. Give those skills a much higher cost, you shouldn’t be able to spam them like this.

You know, thief worked so well without cooldowns, let’s give it to revenants too!

They seem to be making revenant every class at once, torment, might stacking, condition clear heal (kind of) and ranged… AND no cds… (ele,thief,ranger,warrior,necro,mesmer.)

Only thing can say about Rev breathing out stability is that if it didn’t, each and every one of those spammable utilities is heavy interrupt bait (at least on mallyx).

Aye, three buddies of mine were in TeamSpeak with me while they played in the beta yesterday. It got so bad that I eventually told them “just tell me when you find an actual weakness with the class”.

They are currently under the impression that it is being made intentionally OP so that more people will be drawn to it (and thus to the expansion) and then they’ll nerf it. I hate that idea for multiple reasons and hope they are wrong.

Another friend in the same TeamSpeak provided some hope to the conversation by mentioning that hopefully the Specializations for the existing classes will be similarly powerful.

Some things I thought were ridiculous though:

• 100% projectile finisher on their Auto-Attack (Hammer I believe)
• Blast finisher from a single ability … that blasts three times … 9 stacks of Might easily.

It was also brought to my attention that Confusion + Taunt could be a very mean combo in PvP

• Apply Confusion
• Taunt
• Target is forced to auto-attack you for duration of the taunt.

That’s all second-hand from TeamSpeak and Dulfy though … but :-/

Sebrent.3625:

It was also brought to my attention that Confusion + Taunt could be a very mean combo in PvP

• Apply Confusion
• Taunt
• Target is forced to auto-attack you for duration of the taunt.

Not only confusion, but torment too as taunt forces them to move. Also the new slow condition will be excellent for interrupt mesmers, making it much easier to see animations and interrupt skills.

I can already feel warriors getting slowed mid-Killshot, causing me to dodge too early… ^^

Looks like I might be investing in more Runes of Melandru and bowls of Lemongrass.

-65% condition duration that no one can remove from me? Yes, please.

… though special note … I think that is one of the dumbest things they ever allowed … anyone feel free to create a thread about it and I’ll throw in my full opinion … and math.

On a more positive note, my friends were telling me that conditions were stacking much higher than 25 on the Wyvern when they fought it.

With Sharper Images in most Mesmer builds (along with Deceptive Evasion, of course), I’m fairly positive that can only help us.

Getting over 25 bleeds alone will be quite a stress, though. 25 Vulnerability, on the other hand, is easily done when traiting at least 3 in Domination.

I meant that it’d be helpful for events, dungeons/fractals, etc. where you have teammates.

Currently, because there are max stacks, condition builds are sub-optimal because if you have more than one, they often can’t get their full stacks of conditions. Power builds don’t have this issue. This is part of the reason why you see Power builds more often in PvE.

Sebrent.3625:

I meant that it’d be helpful for events, dungeons/fractals, etc. where you have teammates.

Currently, because there are max stacks, condition builds are sub-optimal because if you have more than one, they often can’t get their full stacks of conditions. Power builds don’t have this issue. This is part of the reason why you see Power builds more often in PvE.

No, the reason is that even if you were the sole condition spec in a dungeon group under ideal conditions, you’d still be 3k+ DPS behind.

What is it that people don’t get about the inferiority of conditions? THEY DO LESS DAMAGE. It’s not just the caps, they scale from a single stat, period.

Moreover, condition specs do not have BURST. For example, take lupi, entire phases and encounter mechanics can be skipped by bursting a boss down, which conditions don’t do, and some bosses even self cleanse conditions.

If you are a condition spec, in any aspect of the game besides pvp, YOU ARE GETTING CARRIED. POWER SPECCED PEOPLE ARE CARRYING YOUR kitten .

Removing condition caps won’t fix that. Power specs will still be superior and expected.

thanks for the replies, it’s disappointing to hear Revenant is being created as a super class. Given Anet’s track record they probably will nerf it later. This leaves Mesmers players hoping to move on to a class in a even worst spot because no such OP class in Revenant will stay this way forever.

I guess we can still hope the Mesmer specialization and shield skills will bring some changes to the class, but I am not optimistic that Anet will do the right thing for Mesmers.

First, I don’t disagree. Power is king in PvE. This is why you’ll see me running Berserker in fractals.

Second, please notice my wording. I specifically worded it that way for a reason:

• This is part of the reason why you see Power builds more often in PvE.

Third, do you have math to show that a condition build would be 3k DPS behind? What about a mixed power/condition build? Yes, conditions only scale on one stat, but your other two stats could be improving your direct damage.

Could be right, but I like to see the actual math behind anything.

Fourth, even if it didn’t change the meta from Zerker for PvE, it could allow conditions to play more of a part in it. There are plenty of abilities that do great direct damage but also apply conditions.

Traits as well. When I’m running dungeons, I often have 3+ trait points in Dueling so I have sharper images. I’d love for my illusions’ bleeds to not have to compete with any bleeds caused by other classes abilities, traits, etc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-in-PvE-Overview/page/3#post4801115

Zenith, where in your links is the math?

<edit>
Also, that second link you provided features several people mentioning the same things I have:

• Some power builds still have traits that inflict conditions (ex: Sharper Images).
• A mixed power/condition build could potentially do more damage (though I sadly don’t see math for this either).

</edit>

It’s probably in the DnT website or somewhere buried in these forums I’m not gonna do a thorough search through months old posts just because you can’t bother to do so yourself to distract from the fact you’ve implied stacks are even a factor keeping condi specs out of viability (they don’t, it’s the DAMAGE OUTPUT).

Right there is a video comparing a full condi warrior kill to a power spec kill.

That’s fine if you want to claim it without the data. Berserker does seem to be quite dominant still.

I would just prefer to see the math as then it can be played with to see if there is a way to get more performance … such as from a mixed power/condition build or by simply tweaking the ratios of Power/Precision/Ferocity. I’ve yet to see anyone play with those numbers; just everyone says “berserker” and nods in unison; myself included.

I’m saddened that you seem to want to argue with me instead of have a discussion about this. This conversation has felt very antagonistic from your end. Did I do something to warrant this?

I still believe that the current stack limit is part of what keeps condition damage from being as relevant in the current PvE meta as direct damage as it most definitely limits what can be done.

Lastly, if you look at the flow of the conversation, this was a side-note while discussing that it would at least simply help when you have teammates. Even with all power builds, my groups still hit the current stack maxes because we have various traits and/or abilities that apply conditions.

@Anyone: If someone can tell me where I can find the numbers for combining Weapon Strength and Power to get the total damage for each skill in-game. I’d appreciate it. Then I can just generate these numbers myself and share them. Currently I only see base damage and a coefficient for power on the wiki, with some of them noting that the base damage is from a specific weapon strength.

@Rome: sorry, we seem to have hijacked this :-/

Sebrent.3625:

@Anyone: If someone can tell me where I can find the numbers for combining Weapon Strength and Power to get the total damage for each skill in-game. I’d appreciate it. Then I can just generate these numbers myself and share them. Currently I only see base damage and a coefficient for power on the wiki, with some of them noting that the base damage is from a specific weapon strength.

Frifox has most of this data captured and regularly updated. Here’s a recent post of his, check out the various links in his signature.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-illusions-Ranger-Runes/first#post4916332

In addition, I think he’s analyzed the dps comparison between power and condi to the point that condi is preferred if soloing dungeons when taking staff + IE. Power still rules by a long shot when a party is taken into account.

Rome.7124:

thanks for the replies, it’s disappointing to hear Revenant is being created as a super class. Given Anet’s track record they probably will nerf it later. This leaves Mesmers players hoping to move on to a class in a even worst spot because no such OP class in Revenant will stay this way forever.

I guess we can still hope the Mesmer specialization and shield skills will bring some changes to the class, but I am not optimistic that Anet will do the right thing for Mesmers.

Keep in mind there were some interesting bugs discovered that doesn’t help the overpowered perception. I’m sure more will be discovered in future tests.

The notion of an energy bar is going to be very tricky to balance with the skills. I can’t see some of the more powerful skills like banish enchantment going live in it’s current form. I’m inclined to think Anet isn’t completely blind to how strong it is either.

Ultimately it’s absolutely not in their best interest to alienate all the other professions by introducing a stronger one. While that’s true and logical, hopefully Anet sees it.

@skcamow:
Awesome! Thanks! Will dig into those when I get a chance.

Dev post related to the beta:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Increased-Bleeding-Stacks/first#post4915111

I added the bold to emphasize the part stating that they are looking at more than stack size for improving gameplay for condition builds :-)

Hey Everyone,

As you may have noticed bleeding stacks go above 25 stacks when playing in the demo map. This is not a mistake, rather as we have said for a while now, we know that the current stack cap creates problems for condition players who want to work together. What you saw today was the first test in solving some of these problems. Keep in mind, it is not necessarily final and absolutely not the entire plan. I see many questions about how this will work and how it impacts other conditions, balance, etc. Rest assured that as soon as we have a final plan we will be revealing it and letting you all know exactly how it will work.

Jon

Not a good picture to demonstrate, aside from Gsword… but Mesmer represent! o/

I made mesmer and warrior in beta – after revenant – but no shield to test. I opened loot bags in hope of shield.

Is it just Revenants with the energy bar? What I secretly hope is every class gets them like in GW1.

Why? Because we’re mesmers and Energy Burn, Guilt & Shame, Mind Wrack to name a few old friends. I played monk more than mesmer in GW 1 and the game of cat and mouse vs mesmers was one of the things that made gw1 PvP interesting. Different weapon sets gave you more or less power and different power regent. Typically you’d have an energy hiding set, a normal set and a high energy / low regent set for emergencies. You’d sit in the energy hiding set to mitigate energy burn and switch to cast. The gw1 power mechanics where interesting even without mesmers. You had to be pretty careful not to spam the 10e abilities or you’d run out of power. Sometimes you needed to switch to the high energy emergency set to save someone but this was risky since there was less regent and you could get stuck in the high energy set and end up oop. Eles had a wonderful elite called ether prodigy. It gave you massive power regent at a price, there was a mechanic called exhaustion which reduced your total power pool. You were literally burning the candle at both ends because use ether prodigy too frequently and you’d be unable to cast.

It was also nice because in GW1 a Mesmer turned an ability spammer into a corpse … we used to heavily punish ability spammers in GW2 too, but not as well now.

I’m curious how the meta will shift with this expansion giving new weapons, changes to damaging conditions, specializations, new utilities, etc.. Going to probably be quite the shake-up.

ppl just have to get over it that this is gw2 and not gw1…

There’s nothing wrong with friendly reminiscing. We did somewhat resemble a GW1 capability until several months after release when it was nerfed; though we did it in a new and different way.

I do agree though. Any time someone says “it was this way in GW1, so it should be that way in GW2” … I find your statement more pertinent as that’s the same as saying “my dog is brown, so that dog should be brown”.

Ya thats fine to say, but a necro is still basically a necro, warriors are still warriors, rangers are still rangers, they all have the same basic class philosophy in place. Mesmers are not still Mesmers, our entire class philosophy was changed. We used to be all about controlling the opponent, now our primary meta build is built around stealth and exploding clones, there is no controlling the opponent like in GW1. So ya this is a new game, but our class is the only one that got essentially changed to a new class, with mostly skills names being the similarity with old mesmer.

MSFone.3026:

Ya thats fine to say, but a necro is still basically a necro, warriors are still warriors, rangers are still rangers, they all have the same basic class philosophy in place. Mesmers are not still Mesmers, our entire class philosophy was changed. We used to be all about controlling the opponent, now our primary meta build is built around stealth and exploding clones, there is no controlling the opponent like in GW1. So ya this is a new game, but our class is the only one that got essentially changed to a new class, with mostly skills names being the similarity with old mesmer.

Ok…..& how was it? fun.. not fun..undecided & why?

I can answer that:

In small to medium fights? It’s fun :-) … unless good thieves see you … then you might want to say a little prayer as you’re about to meet your maker :-p

In large fights … it’s a pain as we watch our illusions get cleaved to death before they can either “sustain damage” (phantasm build) or shatter (shatter build).

Sebrent.3625:

I can answer that:

In small to medium fights? It’s fun :-) … unless good thieves see you … then you might want to say a little prayer as you’re about to meet your maker :-p

In large fights … it’s a pain as we watch our illusions get cleaved to death before they can either “sustain damage” (phantasm build) or shatter (shatter build).

So nothing really changed!!! is what your saying….? huh! sigh…

Well,

• we did eat some more nerfs :-p
• scepter now applies torment
• got some new traits … some blow … some are nice

Take the good with the bad and move on. I just focus on playing with people I enjoy these days. It’s what makes/breaks MMOs for me. I still enjoy my Mesmer … just miss some of the nice stuff I used to have. Adapting is good for you though :-)

Sebrent.3625:

It was also nice because in GW1 a Mesmer turned an ability spammer into a corpse … we used to heavily punish ability spammers in GW2 too, but not as well now.

I’m curious how the meta will shift with this expansion giving new weapons, changes to damaging conditions, specializations, new utilities, etc.. Going to probably be quite the shake-up.

Funny because we had the pre-nerf Powerblock for that, then yep…Many thieves cried rivers and poof useless trait ):

Yep, had that and Confusion use to be something that auto-attacking through several stacks of would kill you very quickly … but was a very short duration condition.

I miss those days and when there was no ICD on gaining protection from regen … my tanky condition builds of old have been gibbed a bit :-/

MSFone.3026:

Ya thats fine to say, but a necro is still basically a necro, warriors are still warriors, rangers are still rangers, they all have the same basic class philosophy in place. Mesmers are not still Mesmers, our entire class philosophy was changed. We used to be all about controlling the opponent, now our primary meta build is built around stealth and exploding clones, there is no controlling the opponent like in GW1. So ya this is a new game, but our class is the only one that got essentially changed to a new class, with mostly skills names being the similarity with old mesmer.

Not really. Rangers in gw1 were never a pet class. The pet was entirely optional, they had preparations in gw1 as an essential mechanic as well as stances, both of which were plundered from the class and given to the thieves as venoms and warriors getting their OP stances.

Necromancers used to be kings of conditional damage, in GW2 that’s the engineer’s game, where he has more condition variety and frontloading than the necromancer.