Guild Wars 2

I have had a very good time with my first day of chronomancy, but I didn’t feel OP. This may be due to the fact that I play a weird build (chrono-bunker) but I felt most new skills were well balanced or UP (some of the wells including the elite).

On the other hand, I see people here on the forum preparing themselves for a nerf and while PvP I started to have some “chrono OP” comments (which is ironic because it came from an elementalist…). With these comments starting to spread, we can expect to play a downgraded version in the next BWE.

To prevent that from happening, I would love if you could say what you think was OP and a suggest a solution to fix it. If a nerf has to come, at least it should target the right part and not some of the super fun mechanics the specialization is bringing.

The one thing I can guess is a bit OP right now is the burst after chronophantasma. For this reason, I think the best suggestion was that each phantasm continues his usual rotation but “clones” himself on shatter, and the clones run towards the enemy to shatter. This way, there is no sudden phantasm burst after the shatter burst (better than just 1s daze).

My feeling playing as a Condi Chrono is yes, Chronomancer is OP because of two things…
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1. Slow. Far too much access to Slow. If you build for it (GS with Danger Time and Lost Time) you can maintain 100% up-time of uncleansable Slow as well as 100% crit chance against your victims. I suggest that Lost Time should have an ICD instead of a counter system.
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2. Alacrity may be making Shatter cadence a bit too fast. With my build, which doesn’t use Improved Alacrity, I pretty much always have Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration or Diversion ready to go, allowing me to inflict continuous packets of Torment and Confusion.

To be honest though I’m not sure if this is an issue as pretty much only condition builds can take full advantage of this, and condition Mesmers are hardly considered “meta”. So I would wait and see for this one.

Ya still too early to know for sure. You get insane damage with the ability to mine wrack twice with continuum split. I also noticed that your shatter for continuum split has a good chance to scare your opponent and bait out dodges or other abilities. The problem is that as soon as you shatter with continuum, they are going to know you are going to burst or something because the time limit for the skill is not very long. This makes it so a simple dodge can ruin the whole timing so you don’t do even remotely close to the same amount of damage you would do on a dummy or even one of the npcs in heart of the mist. I believe the time given in continuum split is good. Any lower and you would not get any use out of it. Any longer and you would make the skill way to easy to use.
Only worked with wells and shield in pve and on a test dummy. It seemed remarkably smooth and everything worked a lot better than I was expecting. Don’t think any of these is op in pve for now. Never used them in pvp.

Chronomancer is hardly OP, it is just more improved in general. Those who take it and can utilise it well will have slightly better outcome, but no change to playstyle and nothing ground breaking. Tbh bad players will remain bad (which I do see a small trend of disillusioned people jumping on “OP bandwagon” like in June 23rd patch), good players will be more competitive. Before we jump to OP conclusion I think its safe to say every elite specialisation is upped in this beta.

Probably need more testing, played for 3 hours…got wrecked so many times because not sure how to use F5 well…..

Regarding balance, the best standard to compare is to the meta build
dom/duel/chaos
So you give up one of confounding suggestion/mental anguish, blind dissipation/deceptive evasion, PU.

You gain F5, chronophantasm or quickness on shatter. How do you evaluate the tradeoff?

For the F5, if I understand well, it is 1.5s with IP only but adds more time for each clone shattered. Would it make sense if it does not scale that well with the number of illusions? I feel like 1.5s is a reasonable window (basically 1 long cast skill), but 6s (3 clones) is too much. Then again, if you use 3 clones, then you have wasted 3 clones…

But I really love this skill because there seems to be an unlimited number of possible use of it, both offensive and defensive. I even tried for fun to jump out of Skyhammer and shift back safely. I can see people trolling in WvW, followed by a group of enemy and “faking” a jump.

ATM I primarily use F5 to drop Time Warp (I think you can get Time Warp every ~60s or so this way), or I’ll use it early in the fight and kamikaze into the fray (just don’t die, won’t save you if you die).

I think people who complain about F5 specifically being OP just don’t know how to counter it yet, specifically the fact that you can destroy the rift.

Just like baseline Mesmer, Chronomancer has a really intricate playstyle. A lot of things that seem OP at first glance will totally fall apart once players have time to get used to them.

I haven’t seen anything so far that A) can’t be done as well by some other class or B) can’t be played around in some straightforward fashion.

Droping the time on continuum split any more will cause a lot more problems in pve than pvp. You don’t necesarily need 6 seconds to do another mind wrack shatter, and likewise you probably won’t do much more damage between that shatter and continuum shift. However, you do need 6 seconds to throw out mimic, well of recall, well of action, time warp, then well of recall ( or whatever rotation you want to use at the moment)

Remember that Continuum Split isn’t just about resetting CDs, it also resets your health and everything. So it’s a good way to give it all you’ve got for a few seconds knowing as long as you don’t die, you’ll be as good as new at the end while your enemies would’ve taken the full brunt of your reckless assault.

1.5s per Illusion is just about enough to do this. Any shorter and it will only be good for CDs.

I’ve had a ton of fun so far with chronomancer. I made a build focused on keeping up alacrity and the effects were awesome. F5 is very tricky to use to your advantage. You have to plan ahead and know which skills to use first to trigger it, and then which skills to use while its active so that they are available again after it finishes. The short time limit (6 seconds max) coupled with the threat of the rift being cleaved down early, makes it pretty balanced IMO. I don’t feel like chronomancer is overpowered at all. I get wrecked all the time in pvp with it despite the new abilities. I can beat some people, but it’s roughly 50/50.

I love alacrity right now, but I’m 99% convinced Anet is going to swoop in and nerf it… They will say “we feel uncomfortable with these cooldowns” and reduce it to like 33% speed. And then they will say “it needs more counterplay” and turn it into a regular boon so it can be stolen/stripped. Then they will say “hmmm elementalist and engineer need some more boons… lets give them alacrity!” and then mesmer will go cry in a corner once again…

i am so amazed of the mesmer community

you scream op when ppl around dont yet familiar with the chrono concept

i played condi shatter and have fought necro and after i told him how to beat me with condition transfer he rekt me
i have played the same with dd ele diamond skin and staff ele and the new trait ele , condi cant touch them
guard the same

so yes bit more slow from shield block mainly but hardly infinite

F5 very tricky to use so far but getting the hang of it

so if you want another mtd nerf call it op based on noob ppl you were fighting who dont know yet how to counter it

chrono is still like any other mesmer cant handle cc and conditions

its nice trait line which make you choose correctly between dom/insp/ duel as it should

regarding power build chrono with de gives so much illusion up for fast shattering so the dmg is buff with GS. but they nerf the GS dmg a bit so…
with signet of the ether i use one trick pony to create 2 izerk they do dmg and i shatter and again 2 pops up . but again i use my heal to do that…

Embolism.8106:

ATM I primarily use F5 to drop Time Warp (I think you can get Time Warp every ~60s or so this way), or I’ll use it early in the fight and kamikaze into the fray (just don’t die, won’t save you if you die).

I think people who complain about F5 specifically being OP just don’t know how to counter it yet, specifically the fact that you can destroy the rift.

Im curious, how do you get time warp on 60s cd?

messiah.1908:

i am so amazed of the mesmer community

you scream op when ppl around dont yet familiar with the chrono concept

Well that was my point, I don’t think chrono is OP, but if it is I want to avoid “bad nerf” (MtD, chaotic dampening, harmonious mantras, just to name the recent examples).

I really love what the chronomancer has done for the class. I think the mechanics are far superior in execution than any other elite spec so far. F5 adds so much complexity to combat by affording a unique comboing system. Alacrity is a sweet buff that trains you to develop a certain rhythm to keep those faster cooldowns flowing.

I’ve tried the reaper as well. While it is flashy and seems strong, the new mechanics for reaper don’t even come close to how thoughtful the design of the chronomancer is. I just think that the chronomancer is the one they actually managed to achieve their goal with; make you play the class differently. I love it.

I think it comes mostly from the fact that it is based on a design for a standalone class. I perfectly agree that so far all the others are tweaked versions of the original class. I love the style of the reaper (but am not convinced by its efficiency), but it is just a tweaked necro. Chronomancer is still a mesmer in some aspects but plays so differently! I love it

And yes, F5 is probably the best skill. So many ways to use it well, and so many ways to use it bad :p

With a little bit of experience, and not even playing near the skill-cap yet, it certainly feels very OP.

I am playing a clone-factory build, and can keep a near constant stream of phantasms and shatters heading at enemies. Between chronophantasma, illusionary reversion, and illusionary persona, I am able to keep an incredibly high supply of phantasms and shatters coming, while still have pretty good defensive capabilities.

The high slow uptime seems like it can be very easily broken.

Maybe we will find there are some excellent ways to counterplay, but at the current it seems that if someone could play chrono at the skill-cap (even someone like Helseth wouldn’t yet) they would be way stronger than even d/d ele or pre-mantra adjustment mesmer.

I think some of these problems could be solved with internal cooldowns on some of the traits, and chronophantasma might even need something like lower life on the created phantasms. I wouldn’t go nerfing things yet, but I foresee some changes being necessary.

Actually you can kill chronomancer more easy than a Pu mesmer.

they just gave us more utility,

stop crying, thief still kill us

Eloid.4569:

Actually you can kill chronomancer more easy than a Pu mesmer.

they just gave us more utility,

stop crying, thief still kill us

Yeah I was getting destroyed by thieves in pvp today. I hope Anet waits until all the elite specs are out and we’ve had time to play them for a few weeks before making any major changes. Let the community adjust first.

I find it bit over the top with the slow and the shield kittens so dang hard. Its also annoying how the wells dont have red rings so they look like ally wells (at least with the elite well).

The only thing up to now I found OP is F5 in combination with elite skill. It effectively makes every elite the same cooldown as your F5. Of course, alternatively you can use it twice in a row. Both are pretty strong.

I really don’t want to see F5 getting increased cool down. Maybe it has to be changed so that you can’t use elite after activating F5.

SaintSnow.6593:

Its also annoying how the wells dont have red rings so they look like ally wells (at least with the elite well).

This sounds like a bug. Hostile AoE should all have red rings as outlines.

thief can kill us, guard with aoe and trap can kill all our clones so we cant stand on point, ranger trap the same warrior with the cleave unless you got chaos stability trait can kill you

its pretty easy to kill chrono when you know what to do- kill the clones

if they add icd the the traits than it will make the trait unuasable as you dont know when the trait is rdy to use your phantasm and shatter and same with clone. so it will become random trait so no one will use it

they add stun ability so the phantasm wont attack fast. so maybe just prolong the duration 0.5 sec.

necro – its dmg is huge huge huge in melee. i still dont know how ppl didnt see the 25 vulnerability stack +20% dmg below 50% hp and rune which add 7% and 50% crit chance when on ds.
sure its squishy as hell but in group fight where you get dd support and guard its hell.

guard – carrion atm is very nice on points 10 bleed +10 burning +poison + vulnerability. other than that didnt see why to use this trait line

Very strong but incredibly difficult if you ask me. I can cleary see that the chronomancer requires A LOT of skill, more than other elite specs.

after few team fights (no full team) and few losses the chrono give nice support but pu power still got me after i have been burst in mili sec by 1 ele 1 mes 1 guard

but the doable time warp i did is nice

so no op at all maybe in 1v1

I feel SUPER squishy as a Chronomancer, way less survival than with Staff/Sceptre/Torch Mesmer.

It is squishy because all of mesmer’s trait lines are not too malleable for each build. Chronomancer needs to replace one of your trait lines, but it doesn’t replace them in functionality usually. Inspiration is our main source of condition mitigation and healing, Chrono doesn’t overlap in functionality there at all really. So if you were running Inspiration, Chronomancy pretty much needs to replace one of your other trait lines. The closest fit functionality wise is probably Dueling, but that still locks at least one of your Chrono traits to make up for the lost Deceptive Evasion. Plus you lose the very useful blinds.

It’s how an elite spec should be if you ask me. Not so strong that everyone has to run it, but not so weak that running it means giving up either a ton of damage or a ton of survivability. It adds depth to your playstyle, not necessarily just strict upgrades or downgrades.

For condi tradeoffs:
if I give up illusions I can’t do condi shatter at all, so illusions is required
if I give up dueling I can’t produce clones quite fast enough, and no sharper images
if I give up chaos I lose condi damage, BD/PU, and a LOT of durability (don’t realize how much I benefitted from regen/protection uptime until they are gone).

So far I’ve given up chaos, for duel/ill/chr, but it really does leave me squishy. Remember the times when mesmers were out of the meta just because thieves could stalk us the whole game? That’s what it’s like being a chronomancer.

As far as the OP-ness of chrono in general:
Here’s what you give up:

• Durability
• Raw damage (Danger Time is the only damage boost, and it’s very situational in how you use it. It just doesn’t interact well with existing builds, as someone else noted)
• Phantasm damage traits (seriously, there’s none here, but there’s at least one in every other trait line, so you’re guaranteed to lose one). Chronophantasma doesn’t count, because it’s really just bringing shatters into the phant conversation, it doesn’t help your phants at all directly.

What you gain:

• Time manipulation, slow, and some pretty neat tricks

Basically, being a chronomancer means coming up with ways to use the variety of tricks to compensate for raw damage and durability. Everyone who is complaining about how op it is are just seeing the tricks and assuming that’s just more powerful. What they don’t see is that under the hood, those extra shatters aren’t hitting as hard. And that the chronomancer is more vulnerable than other mesmers.

I’m not trying to say that it doesn’t give benefits. In pve, my condi mes unloads more damage upfront than I used to. A lot more damage, sometimes. That’s only because I’ve found ways to make the tricks boost up my damage past what I lost, and the cost is going to be loss in situations where I can’t use the tricks. In pvp, those costs are raw counterplay, as most of my new tricks rely on using slow or clones/phantasms in some clever way, both of which can be countered.

Frankly, I find being a chrono in pvp a bit harder.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Basically, being a chronomancer means coming up with ways to use the variety of tricks to compensate for raw damage and durability. Everyone who is complaining about how op it is are just seeing the tricks and assuming that’s just more powerful. What they don’t see is that under the hood, those extra shatters aren’t hitting as hard. And that the chronomancer is more vulnerable than other mesmers.

Yeah, it sounds like Chrono has expanded our 6/6/6/6/6 build into a 6/6/6/6/6/6 build, to hear some people tell it.

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Basically, being a chronomancer means coming up with ways to use the variety of tricks to compensate for raw damage and durability. Everyone who is complaining about how op it is are just seeing the tricks and assuming that’s just more powerful. What they don’t see is that under the hood, those extra shatters aren’t hitting as hard. And that the chronomancer is more vulnerable than other mesmers.

Yeah, it sounds like Chrono has expanded our 6/6/6/6/6 build into a 6/6/6/6/6/6 build, to hear some people tell it.

… and we can take a few GM per trait lines!

Silverkey.2078:

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Basically, being a chronomancer means coming up with ways to use the variety of tricks to compensate for raw damage and durability. Everyone who is complaining about how op it is are just seeing the tricks and assuming that’s just more powerful. What they don’t see is that under the hood, those extra shatters aren’t hitting as hard. And that the chronomancer is more vulnerable than other mesmers.

Yeah, it sounds like Chrono has expanded our 6/6/6/6/6 build into a 6/6/6/6/6/6 build, to hear some people tell it.

… and we can take a few GM per trait lines!

A few? I think you mean all of them.

i try dom/deul/chrono with power build – the dmg is huge due to 2 izerk shatter and 2 clones up for mirror instead of 1.
so i got no insp line with no heal on shatter and no condi cleanse which i think is not needed (shatter to do dmg and not to cleanse in defense mode)
its ok until i get no support from my team and leave me open to thief attacks or 1v2

i tried illu/duel/chrono with condi build also work great but i gave up chaos protection and reflect and stability so warrior and ranger are more dangerous.

i tried bunker with chrono/insp/chaos boon share – the support is amazing if your team knows what its doing but if they think you can hadle long enough 1v2 you are dead as you are not bunker guard

so i think chrono fits the support role where only with full team support you can do amazing things . in hot join or pug team you will face hard time

I didn’t find Chrono OP. I actually just found it very comfortable to play. It brought me to use things I didn’t think I would and I got great enjoyment out of a new playstyle.

I feel like Chrono is very balanced, and the other new elites need to just get up to par.

I’ve never had this much fun playing though. I hope Chrono stays as much the same on live as possible.

Something I posted in a comment on reddit:

“Phantasm builds are too strong with Chronomancer and here is my reasoning:

Flow of time (alacrity on shatter), the illusion line traits Persistance of Memory (2 second recharge everytime you shatter a phantasm) and Illusionist’s Celerity (20% illusion summoning reduction) combine to make phantasms recharge extremely quickly.

This combined with Chronophantasma (phantasms respawn after 1 shatter) allows you to get two phantasms and a clone up then Diversion shatter which with Illusionary Reversion (spawn a clone after shattering) leaves you with a full strength mindwrack immediately and the previously mentioned traits mean your phantasms are ready to spawn already.

What makes it even more over powered is the fact that when the phantasms respawn after the initial shatter they unload their payload again much quicker than they would have."

This comes from someone who loves mesmer and is totally stoked to have a good phantasm build.

I think the ‘1 second daze’ on respawned phantasms needs to be longer to reduce the burst potential.

edit – I will say that I hate nerfing. I think balance through buffing underpowered classes/skills is always the better approach, but I know anet doesn’t operate this way.

kpoc.1324:

Something I posted in a comment on reddit:

“Phantasm builds are too strong with Chronomancer and here is my reasoning:

Flow of time (alacrity on shatter), the illusion line traits Persistance of Memory (2 second recharge everytime you shatter a phantasm) and Illusionist’s Celerity (20% illusion summoning reduction) combine to make phantasms recharge extremely quickly.

This combined with Chronophantasma (phantasms respawn after 1 shatter) allows you to get two phantasms and a clone up then Diversion shatter which with Illusionary Reversion (spawn a clone after shattering) leaves you with a full strength mindwrack immediately and the previously mentioned traits mean your phantasms are ready to spawn already.

What makes it even more over powered is the fact that when the phantasms respawn after the initial shatter they unload their payload again much quicker than they would have."

This comes from someone who loves mesmer and is totally stoked to have a good phantasm build.

I think the ‘1 second daze’ on respawned phantasms needs to be longer to reduce the burst potential.

In what situation is it overpowered? In pvp where those phantasms probably didn’t survive long enough for the rotation you described? In pve where Mesmers are already far behind other classes in dps?

What damage did you forgo in order to get this combo? What trait line did you give up for chronomancer? Illusions, Dom and Duel all have damage buffs to both your damage and your illusions damage. The only damage trait in the entire chrono line is Danger Time, which benefits you almost nothing in a chronophantasm build like you describe above.
So is your full strength shatter really full strength?

Your analysis doesn’t account for what you give up to get it, it doesn’t account for what environment you’re living in to make this happen, it doesn’t account for exactly the kind of things that might make this not OP.

I was running Domination Illusions Chrono, but gave up Dom for Inspiration because I didn’t need the extra damage or vulnerability. My experience is primarily roaming in wvw. The phantasms don’t have to survive for long at all to attack, diversion, attack, mind wrack.

Add Protected Phantasms and Persisting Images, plus Time Catches Up (so travel time to target during a shatter is reduced) and your illusions will survive long enough to do a great deal of damage.

Its only a couple of seconds and with the cooldown reduction traits the phantasms are back up incredibly quickly.

The damage you give up from other trait lines to take chronomancer is made up for by reduced cooldowns and more frequent attacks.

I’ll refrain from commenting on the original question, but something I haven’t seen mentioned so far: Try out a damage rotation with persistence of memory + chronophantasma. There’s nothing quite like it.

It’s bugged to not work with shield 4, though.

alexei.9364:

I’ll refrain from commenting on the original question, but something I haven’t seen mentioned so far: Try out a damage rotation with persistence of memory + chronophantasma. There’s nothing quite like it.

It’s bugged to not work with shield 4, though.

My question is does Persistence of Memory reduce the CD Mental Defence?

I don’t think it’s OP, but it is a kitten you don’t want to handle without gloves.

If we’re talking about chronomancer you have to split the debate up into several parts:

Part 1: Weapon.
Shield: It’s new so people don’t know what to expect. That same goes for reaper, dragonhunter, tempest so that’s an even playfield. We can judge it based on our other off hands. From that perspective I’d say it’s in a good place:

Shield 4: It’s a double block, with below average damage (compared to 5 torment stacks from sc2 and 1k dmg from sw4), so the double block compensates for that. The phantasm it spawns is average for the same reason: Better utility use then most other phantasms, but a lot lower on damage. Perfect tradeoff for those looking for more support.

Shield 5: Tricky to judge. A stunfield that you can pop close range is hard to counter, then again if you compare it to magic bullet from close range or paralyse from thieves it’s not that dissimlar. Decent balance again.

F5: it has a way to long aftercast, making you lose like the first second, which is hard to take. The use itself ain’t bad, but timing is crucial. Fits the mesmer in general. The scare effect and counterplay will evolve sooni enough.

Wells:

Personally I dislike them. They are to easy to spot and 3 of the 5 take to long to cast. I did some build testing with a friendly reaper and he could avoid all wells to easy or at least before they hit their end effect even with stuns traited. (stun when you daze)

Now the harder part: Traits
Minors: Long overdue, but at long last we got a passive speedboost. Other then that nothing special.

Majors: Here is where it becomes interesting.
-The 2 uses on phantasms is awesome. It no longer punishes phantasm builds. The daze prevents a mega burst so that change works really well.
-Slow, slow, slow……the thing us mesmers used to be taunted with (lacking speed), became our taunt to others. just perfect….but is it OP?
Lost time needs a icd probably. You can easily make a perm crit build, which with GS means you can have it up always. And icd of 4 seconds (same as reapers’ chill) would be nice. Let’s face it: being chilled or slowed is about equally effective (and you want both of them cleansed asap), so I see no need to deal with them differently.

-alacrity: This one is a bit nasty to judge. If people ignore your avengers you can get it up permanently, shame on them in my opinion for ignoring them (or simply ignorance). In itself I don’t consider it gamebreaking at all. Just like you can compare chill to slow, you can compare quickness to alacrity. What could be a minor issue is it working on the F1, 2, 3 &4 cooldowns as well. It might need to change into just the skills/utilities.

My testing is somewhat limited so far. I feel like I haven’t really found a great way to take advantage of F5, but I love experimenting with it.

I’ve been playing with Inspiration, Illusions and Chrono trying to shatter at a frequent pace. It feels like it could work, but right now I’m squishy. And I’m trying to learn a new mouse at the same time, so that’s not helping… lol

kpoc.1324:

I was running Domination Illusions Chrono, but gave up Dom for Inspiration because I didn’t need the extra damage or vulnerability. My experience is primarily roaming in wvw. The phantasms don’t have to survive for long at all to attack, diversion, attack, mind wrack.

Add Protected Phantasms and Persisting Images, plus Time Catches Up (so travel time to target during a shatter is reduced) and your illusions will survive long enough to do a great deal of damage.

Its only a couple of seconds and with the cooldown reduction traits the phantasms are back up incredibly quickly.

The damage you give up from other trait lines to take chronomancer is made up for by reduced cooldowns and more frequent attacks.

Thank you for elaborating.
I always hesitate to make OP (or UP) declarations regarding WvW, though. There’re plenty of posters who have done a better job explaining why, but balancing based on WvW just doesn’t work well.

alexei.9364:

I’ll refrain from commenting on the original question, but something I haven’t seen mentioned so far: Try out a damage rotation with persistence of memory + chronophantasma. There’s nothing quite like it.

It’s bugged to not work with shield 4, though.

That was one of the setups I had planned to test for this weekend.
It works out decently, but frankly you don’t actually get all that many shatters out of it.
I mean, you get more than you used to, but I didn’t find that I wkittentering enough to feel like it was a huge dps boost.
And on my condi spec, none of the phantasms apply enough condis to feel it worth forgoing the extra dps from more than 1 shatter at a time.

alexei.9364:

I’ll refrain from commenting on the original question, but something I haven’t seen mentioned so far: Try out a damage rotation with persistence of memory + chronophantasma. There’s nothing quite like it.

It’s bugged to not work with shield 4, though.

That was one of the setups I had planned to test for this weekend.
It works out decently, but frankly you don’t actually get all that many shatters out of it.
I mean, you get more than you used to, but I didn’t find that I wkittentering enough to feel like it was a huge dps boost.
And on my condi spec, none of the phantasms apply enough condis to feel it worth forgoing the extra dps from more than 1 shatter at a time.

The point isn’t more shatters, it’s that there is now no opportunity cost to the shatters that you have.

The phantasm dps you lose from the shatter runtime+daze is more or less made up for by the resummon (it resets attack cooldowns), and the 12s reduction in phantasm skills paired with illusionist’s celerity means you can basically cast phantasms without cooldown.

Chronophantasma + persistence of memory lets us have phantasm dps and shatter dps at the same time, which is not something we’ve ever had before.

alexei.9364:

alexei.9364:

I’ll refrain from commenting on the original question, but something I haven’t seen mentioned so far: Try out a damage rotation with persistence of memory + chronophantasma. There’s nothing quite like it.

It’s bugged to not work with shield 4, though.

That was one of the setups I had planned to test for this weekend.
It works out decently, but frankly you don’t actually get all that many shatters out of it.
I mean, you get more than you used to, but I didn’t find that I wkittentering enough to feel like it was a huge dps boost.
And on my condi spec, none of the phantasms apply enough condis to feel it worth forgoing the extra dps from more than 1 shatter at a time.

The point isn’t more shatters, it’s that there is now no opportunity cost to the shatters that you have.

The phantasm dps you lose from the shatter runtime+daze is more or less made up for by the resummon (it resets attack cooldowns), and the 12s reduction in phantasm skills paired with illusionist’s celerity means you can basically cast phantasms without cooldown.

Chronophantasma + persistence of memory lets us have phantasm dps and shatter dps at the same time, which is not something we’ve ever had before.

Yeah, it’s not something we’ve had before, and it made Phantasms very fragile and clunky at the same time. This is an issue in pretty much all game modes. You pretty much had to ignore your shatter skills completely if you had more than 1 phantasm out because they weren’t worth shattering. Phantasms still die easily to cleave, but now they don’t soft-lock us out of our class skills.

There is still an opportunity cost to shatters because spamming your shatters just because you have 1 clone out never was(and still isn’t) a viable way to deal damage against even average players. Chronophantasma is a grand master trait, it’s supposed to be build defining. And it does just that. It allows phantasms to function in PvP for more than a single attack. You can’t just ignore phantasms and clones anymore like so many people are used to.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I will keep beating this drum if necessary. I think the biggest issue right now is that the shatter, which I think the vast majority will agree is very strong, is basically a freebie. Making the shatter an elite skill would give it a much higher opportunity cost by taking away 2x time warp. In fact, I think many would keep Time Warp instead. I hope they will consider that option if they think something needs to change.

Misguided.5139:

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I will keep beating this drum if necessary. I think the biggest issue right now is that the shatter, which I think the vast majority will agree is very strong, is basically a freebie. Making the shatter an elite skill would give it a much higher opportunity cost by taking away 2x time warp. In fact, I think many would keep Time Warp instead. I hope they will consider that option if they think something needs to change.

I already made a thread explaining the many uses and drawbacks of Continuum Split. Making it an elite makes little sense as the elite specs are designed to change or add to the class’ current mechanic. Honestly if you’re just using F5 to get a second Time Warp, you’re not really using it to the full potential. It is strong, but it isn’t strong on its own and adds a huge amount of depth to mesmers.

messiah.1908:

i am so amazed of the mesmer community

you scream op when ppl around dont yet familiar with the chrono concept

i played condi shatter and have fought necro and after i told him how to beat me with condition transfer he rekt me
i have played the same with dd ele diamond skin and staff ele and the new trait ele , condi cant touch them
guard the same

so yes bit more slow from shield block mainly but hardly infinite

F5 very tricky to use so far but getting the hang of it

so if you want another mtd nerf call it op based on noob ppl you were fighting who dont know yet how to counter it

chrono is still like any other mesmer cant handle cc and conditions

its nice trait line which make you choose correctly between dom/insp/ duel as it should

regarding power build chrono with de gives so much illusion up for fast shattering so the dmg is buff with GS. but they nerf the GS dmg a bit so…
with signet of the ether i use one trick pony to create 2 izerk they do dmg and i shatter and again 2 pops up . but again i use my heal to do that…

Dude your fooling your self if you think its not OP I’m sorry its fun and all but its incredibly Broke. I sat in a fight and was slowed 100% of the time while they have quickness and pop clones out faster then a mother on welfare. I can not dump the slow so that in its self is broke. so I stand there with my thumb up my kitten and cant do anything. Its funny that you say that about the Mesmer that its cause no one knows how to fight them yet but I don’t have that problem with the other elite spec’s. this was also not just a few hours of Spvp this was from last night until now. So go ahead and think and justify it in your head but reality is that its broke and needs some toning down.

Chronomancer is not OP. People are just dumb and impatient. Continuum Shift takes some considerable foresight and skill, thus the consequence for being able to perform very high reward combinations.

If you want to say it’s OP, then wait at least until the end of the beta weekend to say so or else you’re just dealing with a L2P issue since nobody freakin’ knows anything about it yet, so until people have fought multiple days worth of the elite specs we all have to L2P, no exception.

Xstein.2187:

Ya still too early to know for sure. You get insane damage with the ability to mine wrack twice with continuum split. I also noticed that your shatter for continuum split has a good chance to scare your opponent and bait out dodges or other abilities. The problem is that as soon as you shatter with continuum, they are going to know you are going to burst or something because the time limit for the skill is not very long. This makes it so a simple dodge can ruin the whole timing so you don’t do even remotely close to the same amount of damage you would do on a dummy or even one of the npcs in heart of the mist. I believe the time given in continuum split is good. Any lower and you would not get any use out of it. Any longer and you would make the skill way to easy to use.
Only worked with wells and shield in pve and on a test dummy. It seemed remarkably smooth and everything worked a lot better than I was expecting. Don’t think any of these is op in pve for now. Never used them in pvp.

You can Mind Wrack 6 times in a row using Continuum Shift, Mimic and Signet of Illusions (you can use all shatters 6 times in a row actually…). Since Illusionary Persona is now baseline, all shatters will trigger on your character so you don’t even need any clone.
Overall you can use Continuum Shift and Mimic to use any utility skill 4 times, every 90s.

CS + Mimic is strong but has 90s cooldown and basically need all skills ready if you ever want to use a combo. It will work well in dungeons but not that much in PvP

arkealia.2713:

Xstein.2187:

Ya still too early to know for sure. You get insane damage with the ability to mine wrack twice with continuum split. I also noticed that your shatter for continuum split has a good chance to scare your opponent and bait out dodges or other abilities. The problem is that as soon as you shatter with continuum, they are going to know you are going to burst or something because the time limit for the skill is not very long. This makes it so a simple dodge can ruin the whole timing so you don’t do even remotely close to the same amount of damage you would do on a dummy or even one of the npcs in heart of the mist. I believe the time given in continuum split is good. Any lower and you would not get any use out of it. Any longer and you would make the skill way to easy to use.
Only worked with wells and shield in pve and on a test dummy. It seemed remarkably smooth and everything worked a lot better than I was expecting. Don’t think any of these is op in pve for now. Never used them in pvp.

You can Mind Wrack 6 times in a row using Continuum Shift, Mimic and Signet of Illusions (you can use all shatters 6 times in a row actually…). Since Illusionary Persona is now baseline, all shatters will trigger on your character so you don’t even need any clone.
Overall you can use Continuum Shift and Mimic to use any utility skill 4 times, every 90s.

I gave it a try on golems, and it was interesting, but…it really is hard to pull off the whole string. I don’t really see it being a valuable tactic.

Hilarious, though.

Plus if you actually hit someone with all those shatters that you pretty much need to spam off cd to get them all in, your opponent is either afk or really bad at fighting mesmers, and probably any other class for that matter.