tpvp, phantasms viable?
Here’s my perspective..
Countless uses a clone-death build. Ross, though still new to pvp, uses a Phantasm/Interrupt mix with good success. Misha has gone to tournaments with a CS/CI 6/2/6/0/0 build with no DE. Icyicyicy in OMFG is the best PU Mesmer I’ve ever seen and completely shatters all of the PU condi stereotypes.
Viable, in the ultimate measure, is whatever works for you. Shatter and CI Interrupt are powerful builds that work all the way up into high level play, but they are not the only builds that will work in tpvp. Your team, your opponents team, your personal playstyle and ability all need to be taken into account. “Viable” essentially ends up being “most successful.”
Phantasm builds are considered unviable because they are too 1v1 focused, Phantasms die to AoE, and take too long to kill a competent opponent. These are the challenges that any Mesmer going phantasm in pvp must face but that should not stop anyone from making the attempt. It will take time and practice and suck at first, but that’s just kind of how it is with almost all Mesmer builds.
If, for whatever reason, you ended up on a top team and won a high level tournament against the Abjured/TCG/55HP Monks with a phantasm build, then suddenly you just made Phantasm viable. Don’t let the meta define you.
Server: Anvil Rock [NA] / Aeoldyn [OMFG]
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
Here’s my perspective..
Countless uses a clone-death build. Ross, though still new to pvp, uses a Phantasm/Interrupt mix with good success. Misha has gone to tournaments with a CS/CI 6/2/6/0/0 build with no DE. Icyicyicy in OMFG is the best PU Mesmer I’ve ever seen and completely shatters all of the PU condi stereotypes.
Viable, in the ultimate measure, is whatever works for you. Shatter and CI Interrupt are powerful builds that work all the way up into high level play, but they are not the only builds that will work in tpvp. Your team, your opponents team, your personal playstyle and ability all need to be taken into account. “Viable” essentially ends up being “most successful.”
Phantasm builds are considered unviable because they are too 1v1 focused, Phantasms die to AoE, and take too long to kill a competent opponent. These are the challenges that any Mesmer going phantasm in pvp must face but that should not stop anyone from making the attempt. It will take time and practice and suck at first, but that’s just kind of how it is with almost all Mesmer builds.
If, for whatever reason, you ended up on a top team and won a high level tournament against the Abjured/TCG/55HP Monks with a phantasm build, then suddenly you just made Phantasm viable. Don’t let the meta define you.
Icy is actually a very good friend of mine (we’re in the same guild lol), and yes he absolutely owns the PU build. I kinda put together my own phantasm build I like, it’s not mobile, but I find im able to deal with a little more threats, abusing GS with sword/pistol with ogre rune. and zerker amulet. I wanted to make a phantasm build where the phantasms hit hard, but im also able to do good damage on my own.
I like to make my own builds as well as use meta ones, despite me having some good success with my phantasm build, I often get tied by the meta saying “use shatter or lockdown its the only viable in tpvp”.
Don’t let the meta define you.
Define the meta instead!
(sorry, had to add it, it was too tempting^^)
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!
You need to add a bit of something else. Like ppl already said you can’t really count on your phantasms do more than just the first attack. So add in a bit of shatter or halting strikes you’ll be fine.
You need to add a bit of something else. Like ppl already said you can’t really count on your phantasms do more than just the first attack. So add in a bit of shatter or halting strikes you’ll be fine.
My setup is 4/4/0/6/0 ogre rune, zerker amulet gs and sword/pistol (air and energy, generosity and energy) with the 6 in inspiration having increased phantasm health, cure condis when using healing skill, and mantras heal allies. My utilities are often mantra of recovery, blink, mantra of distraction and decoy. It uses duelist discipline and greatsword training, my goal was to try to make a phantasm build where I myself have good enough power to still be a somewhat competent threat. What do you think?
(edited by DrDivine.5378)
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Looks pretty decent. I’d consider going sword/sword and taking the sword cd trait…or just taking the sword cd trait over the pistol trait regardless. Other than that, it seems pretty standard for an offensive phantasm build. You’ll need to be careful with thieves or other builds that can get up in your face and burst, but it should be pretty solid. It’ll ofc suffer from the standard set of problems that phantasm builds face: aoe pressure kills phantasms, so try to keep that in mind when casting, and summon them on targets outside of aoe blobs.
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Looks pretty decent. I’d consider going sword/sword and taking the sword cd trait…or just taking the sword cd trait over the pistol trait regardless. Other than that, it seems pretty standard for an offensive phantasm build. You’ll need to be careful with thieves or other builds that can get up in your face and burst, but it should be pretty solid. It’ll ofc suffer from the standard set of problems that phantasm builds face: aoe pressure kills phantasms, so try to keep that in mind when casting, and summon them on targets outside of aoe blobs.
So this is a build thats pretty standard im guessing? What makes you choose s/s over pistol?
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Looks pretty decent. I’d consider going sword/sword and taking the sword cd trait…or just taking the sword cd trait over the pistol trait regardless. Other than that, it seems pretty standard for an offensive phantasm build. You’ll need to be careful with thieves or other builds that can get up in your face and burst, but it should be pretty solid. It’ll ofc suffer from the standard set of problems that phantasm builds face: aoe pressure kills phantasms, so try to keep that in mind when casting, and summon them on targets outside of aoe blobs.
So this is a build thats pretty standard im guessing? What makes you choose s/s over pistol?
I like the swordsman better, I like having a block to help deal with thieves, and s/s allows you to make the sword cd trait do double duty.
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Looks pretty decent. I’d consider going sword/sword and taking the sword cd trait…or just taking the sword cd trait over the pistol trait regardless. Other than that, it seems pretty standard for an offensive phantasm build. You’ll need to be careful with thieves or other builds that can get up in your face and burst, but it should be pretty solid. It’ll ofc suffer from the standard set of problems that phantasm builds face: aoe pressure kills phantasms, so try to keep that in mind when casting, and summon them on targets outside of aoe blobs.
So this is a build thats pretty standard im guessing? What makes you choose s/s over pistol?
I like the swordsman better, I like having a block to help deal with thieves, and s/s allows you to make the sword cd trait do double duty.
I’ll try it out in the upcoming match then, my fear was that duelist did more damage than swordsman but I havent actually done the math yet lol
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Looks pretty decent. I’d consider going sword/sword and taking the sword cd trait…or just taking the sword cd trait over the pistol trait regardless. Other than that, it seems pretty standard for an offensive phantasm build. You’ll need to be careful with thieves or other builds that can get up in your face and burst, but it should be pretty solid. It’ll ofc suffer from the standard set of problems that phantasm builds face: aoe pressure kills phantasms, so try to keep that in mind when casting, and summon them on targets outside of aoe blobs.
So this is a build thats pretty standard im guessing? What makes you choose s/s over pistol?
I like the swordsman better, I like having a block to help deal with thieves, and s/s allows you to make the sword cd trait do double duty.
I’ll try it out in the upcoming match then, my fear was that duelist did more damage than swordsman but I havent actually done the math yet lol
Swordsman will outdamage duelist after a couple attack cycles. It also attacks faster, making it hard to consistently dodge.
I’ve mentioned this a bit on other threads, but I’m going to say it here. The Mesmer class has probably the most diversity of what can work (OK maybe warriors with their 9238402394 weapon combinations).
This class is all about style. Viability really doesn’t mean anything. And it’s why I don’t really post any new builds that I try on here because there are some people who have a solid idea of what works and what doesn’t.
If you can make/find a phantasm build that suits your style of play, meaning you enjoy it and you win, it’s viable.
Yeah, to add onto what chaos said…
Most of the time when you see people talking about ‘viable’ PvP builds, what they actually mean is ‘Helseth said this was viable on a stream, and I’m parroting Helseth’, when in reality viable is simply a function of what you can make work.
People have sworn up, down, right, left, and backwards that PU conditions is totally worthless in any type of PvP scenario. When I bothered PvPing, I played almost exclusively PU condie (power phant on khylo) and routinely hovered around rank 90 in solo queue and rank 150ish when soloing in team queue.
You make the build viable, not the other way around. If you can figure out how to play a build in such a way that makes it work, then it’s viable. If you can’t, then it’s not currently viable for you and you either need to get better at it, or find a different build. I’d recommend taking a look at my guide ‘A Mesmer’s Guide to Solo Queue’ (you can find it in the stickied build/guide list) for a more in-depth explanation of how to make something viable in PvP.
Is it ok if you look at my setup I commented above and take a look and see what I could change?
Looks pretty decent. I’d consider going sword/sword and taking the sword cd trait…or just taking the sword cd trait over the pistol trait regardless. Other than that, it seems pretty standard for an offensive phantasm build. You’ll need to be careful with thieves or other builds that can get up in your face and burst, but it should be pretty solid. It’ll ofc suffer from the standard set of problems that phantasm builds face: aoe pressure kills phantasms, so try to keep that in mind when casting, and summon them on targets outside of aoe blobs.
So this is a build thats pretty standard im guessing? What makes you choose s/s over pistol?
I like the swordsman better, I like having a block to help deal with thieves, and s/s allows you to make the sword cd trait do double duty.
I’ll try it out in the upcoming match then, my fear was that duelist did more damage than swordsman but I havent actually done the math yet lol
Swordsman will outdamage duelist after a couple attack cycles. It also attacks faster, making it hard to consistently dodge.
so duelist is better for the initial burst, but swordsman puts more pressure overtime?
I’ve mentioned this a bit on other threads, but I’m going to say it here. The Mesmer class has probably the most diversity of what can work (OK maybe warriors with their 9238402394 weapon combinations).
This class is all about style. Viability really doesn’t mean anything. And it’s why I don’t really post any new builds that I try on here because there are some people who have a solid idea of what works and what doesn’t.
If you can make/find a phantasm build that suits your style of play, meaning you enjoy it and you win, it’s viable.
That’s actually where im torn at, im feeling like theres actually not many viable options in terms of tpvp. In duels I can get some stuff, but I can’t seem to find many builds that function in tpvp or have any any kind of solo killing potential when the enemy team has let’s say a thief lol
My concern with your build is that you may be too soft with no toughness at all and no burst. But I never played a build like that. Why don’t you try it in rank pvp tell us what your experience is like and maybe we can help you from there.
If you want to see what I did with the challenge there’s a full build thread + vid + in depth discussion here. There’s a ton of ways to approach it, and I found this to be a potent mix that has great success.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantrupt-Asskicker-CS-Interrupt/first#
If you want to see what I did with the challenge there’s a full build thread + vid + in depth discussion here. There’s a ton of ways to approach it, and I found this to be a potent mix that has great success.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantrupt-Asskicker-CS-Interrupt/first#
Im having a hard time keeping damage up with that build, perhaps its not my playstyle.