Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone!:

I stopped playing the game right after the lost shores event and now I’m coming back to check things out.

Few things I want to ask since I’ve been completely out of touch from the game:

How are necros now (balance)? (I left a lvl 80 necro with full exotics)
Are some of our bugs fixed?
What are the popular builds / gear now?

I’ve been gone for a while, so I’m sure my gear is painfully outdated; are there new ways to get gear? or I still have to grind the shards (I left at shard lvl 3 so I dont think thats an option anymore :S)?

Thanks a lot to all my fellow necromancers that answer!!

Necros still suck. Not much has improved on them just a few bug fixes but the major issues still haven’t been fixed

If you left with karkas… then nothing changed. A few more nerfs but that’s about it.
Namely epidemic suffered its 5th or 6th nerf now. Namely it needs los now so its useless more often then not and even more random then cb.
A few “fixes”… nothing major. Mostly things that don’t make any difference.
We can finally see debuffs in DS… thats one and only thing worth mentioning. I’d mention axe “buff” but unless you did some heavy math you would never notice the difference.

After all the work i’ve done, people still think necromancers were and still are the worst class…

lol poor nemesis

I agree that there havn’t been many changes, but a definite resounding “no” to being weak. Necromancers are still one of the strongest :P

Nemesis.8593:

After all the work i’ve done, people still think necromancers were and still are the worst class…

Honestly all I can say to new/returning necro players on these forums is check out the guides and other info the actively involved necros share such as nemesis. The reason being most have a horrible perception of necros because they cant get te hang of the class/got stomped when playing it/expected it to be an easy pick up and pwn everything else class and based their opinion on the class off that. I have tried before on these forums even posting my build(now slightly outdated than what I use now) back when no one used a build even close and it got shot down, yet ingame I will get pms asking for build and how I do so well.

just my 5 cents.

Watch Nemesis videos and you will get an idea what its like to play a necro.

Nemesis.8593:

After all the work i’ve done, people still think necromancers were and still are the worst class…

Worst class?! Thanks in large part to your guides, which encouraged me to reexamine our traits and skills frequently, I think Necro is likely the best class! We have so much versatility it’s ridiculous. It’s just hard to get big numbers with necro, and the class can be very hard to play at times.

To the OP: The Death Shroud UI change was an enormous buff, but not a mechanics buff. If you’re pretty good at timing your CDs without actually having to see them it’s now very easy to soak condition damage in DS and pop out right when Staff 4 or Consume is off CD. Since you can now see those condition icons you can actually plan for it and start looking around for a target to transfer stuff to.

Necro is awesome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. It’s primarily a caster class with a lot of cool abilities and build variety. check out nemesis guides. he is a great necro and takes a LOT of time in trying to explain the class and be helpful. IMHO there is no class in GW2 that holds a candle to necro.

A few tweaks in the traits (reanimator swiched to chosen trait, foot in the grave longer stability, for instance) would be nice, but its a very good class. Its not the best 1-1 class but for the most part who cares, it does everything else on par or better than any other class.

Necros are on a good place. I think they need more group healing, or support, or something….

Condition-mancers still can’t a weapons rack, which is just plain stupid, but who needs a way to kill siege weapons when we got super adventure box!

All-in-all, a decent class for pve and wvw, not so much for dungeons.

Nemesis.8593:

After all the work i’ve done, people who aren’t very good, don’t play wvwvw, don’t play high end tournaments, and base their entire decisions on 100b ability to hit for 20k still think necromancers were and still are the worst class…

I fixed it for you. After speaking with numerous top end tournament players, high end wvwvw commanders, and numerous rank 40 plus players. The correct comment is people who don’t regularly visit the forums and play other classes at high levels think the necro can be extremely powerful, the epidemic change was necessary, and it’s only weakness is a lack of mobility in wvwvw.

Truth be told, Nemesis, CHIPS, and Bhawb are the major reason I kept playing my Necromancer. Nemesis and CHIPS have the best youtube video guides. SOACGaming has some fantastic podcasts, and all-necro events.

The community is the biggest change since you left thanks to the work of Nemesis, CHIPS, Bhawb, Rennoko, Andele, Talentless, and even the Dredlord. Our community has improved that we have even gotten appearances from Khalifa and Symbolic two of the top PVP Necromancers currently in the game. We have a more positive and helpful community than we did a few months ago, which has led to more build testing and a better feeling for the class.

Ezeriel.9574:

Necros are on a good place. I think they need more group healing, or support, or something….

Condition-mancers still can’t a weapons rack, which is just plain stupid, but who needs a way to kill siege weapons when we got super adventure box!

All-in-all, a decent class for pve and wvw, not so much for dungeons.

While I would love more group healing, Well of Blood is a really, really good group heal if you have healing power. Staff 2 as well. Signet of Undeath is amazing in hard dungeons. I put out a lot of group support, and dungeons aren’t as boring as on my guardian – necro support is much more active than guardian support.

Without specializing a bit, we do lack party support however.

DelOnasi.6051:

Ezeriel.9574:

Necros are on a good place. I think they need more group healing, or support, or something….

Condition-mancers still can’t a weapons rack, which is just plain stupid, but who needs a way to kill siege weapons when we got super adventure box!

All-in-all, a decent class for pve and wvw, not so much for dungeons.

While I would love more group healing, Well of Blood is a really, really good group heal if you have healing power. Staff 2 as well. Signet of Undeath is amazing in hard dungeons. I put out a lot of group support, and dungeons aren’t as boring as on my guardian – necro support is much more active than guardian support.

Without specializing a bit, we do lack party support however.

I find Necro support to be fairly solid. Well of Blood heals for a lot, you’re right. In addition, AoE Weakness and Blind prevent a lot of damage from happening at all. Cripple and Chill make it easier for party members to kite mobs if they’re out of endurance, though this blurs the line between “Support” and “Control”.

The Necromancer is not a class with an Easy Button. There is no nuclear combo. There is no escape. The minions cannot slaughter an enemy zerg. I have never seen a gold farmer using a Necromancer. The skills do not produce broad, flashing, pastel particle effects. The sound effects are not particularly addictive.

This profession is not for everyone. It is best for players to decide what jobs they like rather than try to convince them they will be happy with one they previously decided was not their style. If a player has to ask and Necromancer has not recieved a radical change, then that player probably still will not like the play style.

Nemesis.8593:

After all the work i’ve done, people still think necromancers were and still are the worst class…

Baddies will continue to be bad. Necros are very powerful in many ways yet most people will never figure out the synergies.

Ezeriel.9574:

Necros are on a good place. I think they need more group healing, or support, or something….

Condition-mancers still can’t a weapons rack, which is just plain stupid, but who needs a way to kill siege weapons when we got super adventure box!

All-in-all, a decent class for pve and wvw, not so much for dungeons.

Necros are great in dungeons. Conditionmancers are probably the weakest spec though so that’s probably your problem if that’s what you’re playing. Hybrid specs or powermancers are where it’s at.

Staff #2 = group regen for your melee guys, and Staff #4 = condition removal for them. Wells = dark fields for life leeching and blindness. We may not be guardians, eles or banner warriors when it comes to group support, but we still bring group benefits.

Anchoku.8142:

The Necromancer is not a class with an Easy Button. There is no nuclear combo. There is no escape. The minions cannot slaughter an enemy zerg. I have never seen a gold farmer using a Necromancer. The skills do not produce broad, flashing, pastel particle effects. The sound effects are not particularly addictive.

This profession is not for everyone. It is best for players to decide what jobs they like rather than try to convince them they will be happy with one they previously decided was not their style. If a player has to ask and Necromancer has not recieved a radical change, then that player probably still will not like the play style.

I second this. Maybe it’s just because I haven’t dug into the traits all that much, but I finally leveled my Guardian to 80 and noticed that all of the suggested builds had a single trait in common. Altruistic Healing. Almost every Guardian build is an Altruistic Healing build now. Almost every Elementalist build is an Evasive Arcana build. I haven’t noticed the same “Gotta Have It” traits in the Necro tree. There’s synergy there, but it isn’t going to reach out and slap you. Because of that, we’re not OP. But also we’re not shoe-horned into the same build as everyone else.

PinCushion.7390:

Anchoku.8142:

The Necromancer is not a class with an Easy Button. There is no nuclear combo. There is no escape. The minions cannot slaughter an enemy zerg. I have never seen a gold farmer using a Necromancer. The skills do not produce broad, flashing, pastel particle effects. The sound effects are not particularly addictive.

This profession is not for everyone. It is best for players to decide what jobs they like rather than try to convince them they will be happy with one they previously decided was not their style. If a player has to ask and Necromancer has not recieved a radical change, then that player probably still will not like the play style.

I second this. Maybe it’s just because I haven’t dug into the traits all that much, but I finally leveled my Guardian to 80 and noticed that all of the suggested builds had a single trait in common. Altruistic Healing. Almost every Guardian build is an Altruistic Healing build now. Almost every Elementalist build is an Evasive Arcana build. I haven’t noticed the same “Gotta Have It” traits in the Necro tree. There’s synergy there, but it isn’t going to reach out and slap you. Because of that, we’re not OP. But also we’re not shoe-horned into the same build as everyone else.

Death Shroud everyone takes Death Shroud. YOU HAVE TO SAVE DEATH SHROUD UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE YOU DIE!!!

Still the funniest comment I have heard.

I am still wondering why the host didn’t stop and go wait, can you say that again? So they are supposed to use death shroud just before death and then what? You do realize you can’t be healed while in DS, and you have a ticking clock as well that means if someone hits you hard boom you are out of DS plus they don’t have active vigor returns SO WHAT THEN?

Back on topic, I was trying to think of the most common trait taken, and the only one I can think of is Greater Marks, outside of that there is no most likely in a build trait. I think there are a few don’t touch that traits, but outside of Greater Marks and Maybe LB Pierces and stacks vuln there is nothing I can think of that a majority of people take.

Bas.7406:

PinCushion.7390:

Anchoku.8142:

The Necromancer is not a class with an Easy Button. There is no nuclear combo. There is no escape. The minions cannot slaughter an enemy zerg. I have never seen a gold farmer using a Necromancer. The skills do not produce broad, flashing, pastel particle effects. The sound effects are not particularly addictive.

This profession is not for everyone. It is best for players to decide what jobs they like rather than try to convince them they will be happy with one they previously decided was not their style. If a player has to ask and Necromancer has not recieved a radical change, then that player probably still will not like the play style.

I second this. Maybe it’s just because I haven’t dug into the traits all that much, but I finally leveled my Guardian to 80 and noticed that all of the suggested builds had a single trait in common. Altruistic Healing. Almost every Guardian build is an Altruistic Healing build now. Almost every Elementalist build is an Evasive Arcana build. I haven’t noticed the same “Gotta Have It” traits in the Necro tree. There’s synergy there, but it isn’t going to reach out and slap you. Because of that, we’re not OP. But also we’re not shoe-horned into the same build as everyone else.

Death Shroud everyone takes Death Shroud. YOU HAVE TO SAVE DEATH SHROUD UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE YOU DIE!!!

Still the funniest comment I have heard.

I am still wondering why the host didn’t stop and go wait, can you say that again? So they are supposed to use death shroud just before death and then what? You do realize you can’t be healed while in DS, and you have a ticking clock as well that means if someone hits you hard boom you are out of DS plus they don’t have active vigor returns SO WHAT THEN?

Back on topic, I was trying to think of the most common trait taken, and the only one I can think of is Greater Marks, outside of that there is no most likely in a build trait. I think there are a few don’t touch that traits, but outside of Greater Marks and Maybe LB Pierces and stacks vuln there is nothing I can think of that a majority of people take.

In B4 “Nerf Greater Marks” post.

This video is a very good representation of the necros state in PvE. It’s no guide but gives a fair overview on how it feels playing a necro.

>>click<<

nolop.8095:

This video is a very good representation of the necros state in PvE. It’s no guide but gives a fair overview on how it feels playing a necro.

>>click<<

How many people were in your survey agreed that… that is how necromancers feel ? I am curious because i want to see based on how many hundreds did you based this average.

Nemesis.8593:

After all the work i’ve done, people still think necromancers were and still are the worst class…

Which will always be the case so long as necromancers don’t have an “I Win” spec like most of the other classes do.

How many people were in your survey agreed that… that is how necromancers feel ? I am curious because i want to see based on how many hundreds did you based this average.

I kinda have to agree with nolop on that one. I mean, how many times has it been said on these forums that this class is hard to master? That bike looks like it would be very hard to master, but fun once you figure it out.

That being said, this class is still far from competitive unless you get a big helping hand from other classes to support you. The other classes in this game don’t need others to hold them up, and are easily capable of standing on their own legs. This is what I believe people have issue with. Necromancer is a support class with no builds capable of supporting itself. The same cannot be said for the other classes, who don’t need the support of others to be competitive. They all have at least one build that allows them to function on their own in a PvP environment. PvE on the other hand, it doesn’t matter. You can literally go 0/0/0/0/0 and still blow kitten up on any class.

Kravick.4906:

I kinda have to agree with nolop on that one. I mean, how many times has it been said on these forums that this class is hard to master? That bike looks like it would be very hard to master, but fun once you figure it out.

Hard to master (which I don’t think it is) doesn’t mean waek or underpowered.

That being said, this class is still far from competitive unless you get a big helping hand from other classes to support you. The other classes in this game don’t need others to hold them up, and are easily capable of standing on their own legs. This is what I believe people have issue with. Necromancer is a support class with no builds capable of supporting itself. The same cannot be said for the other classes, who are easily able to support themselves.

Absolutely untrue.

Hard to master (which I don’t think it is) doesn’t mean waek or underpowered.

Compared to other classes that can regularly 1v2 and 1v3 people, yes, it kinda does.

flow.6043:

Absolutely untrue.

Ok, show me a build that can roam in WvW or kill people with impunity in tPvP without the support of another class.

Kravick.4906:

Hard to master (which I don’t think it is) doesn’t mean waek or underpowered.

Compared to other classes that can regularly 1v2 and 1v3 people, yes, it kinda does.

flow.6043:

Absolutely untrue.

Ok, show me a build that can roam in WvW or kill people with impunity in tPvP without the support of another class.

Check some of my builds

Nemesis.8593:

Check some of my builds

Yes, I’ve seen them. Tried all of them even. Some work better than others for roaming, but ultimately they only work well in zergs, where you get the support of many many people. I’m talking about roaming builds where you have no support from other people. Builds that allow thieves, elementalists, mesmers, guardians, engineers, and even warriors and rangers to some small extent to look for smallish scale fights on their own. Zergs bore me honestly.

You get absolutely curbstomped as a necromancer as soon as the situation turns into 1v2 or higher against level 80s with half a brain. Meanwhile, 1v2 and 1v3 are no problem on my thief. I’ve even successfully 1v4ed non upleveled multiple times on my thief. Yes, even after the so called nerf to stealth, which really didn’t do anything. Hell, I’ve 1v2ed and 1v3ed quite a few times on my warrior, a class that supposedly has trouble doing that. All of these fights included all level 80s. I don’t count up leveled players.

What I don’t understand, is in a game whos primary defense mechanic is mobility (which necromancers have next to none of), how people can blindly defend not having it and still expect other people not to see you as weak. I mean why do you think people focus necromancers in tPvP? It sure as hell isn’t because people think we’re “strong” and need to be put down ASAP. I purposefully single out necromancers on my thief and warrior, not because I’m afraid of what they can do, but because to me they are nothing more than a free kill. They have the least amount of stun breaks, they have no mobility to speak of, and their class defining feature is to face tank all of my damage. Damage I have no problem pumping into them faster than they can deal with.

The biggest problem with the game to never win in wvw.
I learn to play but how when I continuously lose?
I tried lots of builds but never worked.
The game must give me chance to win but necro never get chance.

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

Check some of my builds

Yes, I’ve seen them. Tried all of them even. You get absolutely curbstomped as soon as the situation turns into 1v2 or higher against level 80s. Meanwhile, 1v2 and 1v3 are no problem on my thief. I’ve even successfully 1v4ed non upleveled multiple times on my thief. Hell, I’ve 1v2ed and 1v3ed quite a few times on my warrior, a class that supposedly has trouble doing that. All of these fights included all level 80s. I don’t count up leveled players.

What I don’t understand, is in a game whos primary defense mechanic is mobility (which necromancers have next to none of), how people can blindly defend not having it and still expect other people not to see you as weak. I mean why do you think people focus necromancers in tPvP? It sure as hell isn’t because people think we’re “strong” and need to be put down ASAP. I purposefully single out necromancers on my thief and warrior, not because I’m afraid of what they can do, but because to me they’re nothing more than a free kill. They have the least amount of stun breaks, they have no mobility to speak of, and they’re class defining feature is to face tank all of my damage. Damage I have no problem pumping into them faster than they can deal with.

I do agree that in 1v multiple some classes have an easier time, because they can snipe then run away…. however i don’t agree that a thief can 1v3 and a necromancer can’t. Have you taken into consideration that you might be better with your thief then you are with your necromancer ?…

Also if you want to 1v3 some people, and one of those people is… me… you’ll not do anything. So… the point is, you might 1v3 noobs as a thief, then get 1v3 crushed by pro as a necromancer, have you taken that into consideration ?

Kravick.4906:

Nemesis.8593:

Check some of my builds

Yes, I’ve seen them. Tried all of them even. You get absolutely curbstomped as soon as the situation turns into 1v2 or higher against level 80s. Meanwhile, 1v2 and 1v3 are no problem on my thief. I’ve even successfully 1v4ed non upleveled multiple times on my thief. Hell, I’ve 1v2ed and 1v3ed quite a few times on my warrior, a class that supposedly has trouble doing that. All of these fights included all level 80s. I don’t count up leveled players.

What I don’t understand, is in a game whos primary defense mechanic is mobility (which necromancers have next to none of), how people can blindly defend not having it and still expect other people not to see you as weak. I mean why do you think people focus necromancers in tPvP? It sure as hell isn’t because people think we’re “strong” and need to be put down ASAP. I purposefully single out necromancers on my thief and warrior, not because I’m afraid of what they can do, but because to me they’re nothing more than a free kill. They have the least amount of stun breaks, they have no mobility to speak of, and they’re class defining feature is to face tank all of my damage. Damage I have no problem pumping into them faster than they can deal with.

When you have really watched and tried so many builds then you should by now know that there is no “…this is what the necro should be good at and therefore be played like that”.

As for the 1vX scenarios in wvw: I have almost the exact same build for pvp and wvw, the mentality that I have when someone wants to approach me solo is: free kill, straight up 1v1s with non of my skills on cooldown or an empty lf bar, I will win 90% of them especially in wvw because I have max gear stats and most people don’t.
It gets trickier with more people because necros are a little lacking in the escape-a-loss-department. So you just have to pick your fights wisely. That being said, I will always solo engage 2 thiefs or warriors.

Now.. I know my build is nothing special, I’ve seen many people run with it and I’ve also seen it in the forum once or twice. But if you want I can post it in a seperat thread, that will take some time though.

Still one of the best profession. Good in pve if you ignore the warriors/guardians/mesmers party (that counts for every classes btw, not only necros), really good in spvp and wvw.

Nemesis.8593:

I do agree that in 1v multiple some classes have an easier time, because they can snipe then run away…. however i don’t agree that a thief can 1v3 and a necromancer can’t. Have you taken into consideration that you might be better with your thief then you are with your necromancer ?…

Also if you want to 1v3 some people, and one of those people is… me… you’ll not do anything. So… the point is, you might 1v3 noobs as a thief, then get 1v3 crushed by pro as a necromancer, have you taken that into consideration ?

Of course I have. TBH, I wouldn’t even call myself a “pro” player. I lost to a number of skilled people. I even had it out with Yashi once. Did surprisingly well against him, but in the end he was simply better than me. Thieves are definitely easier to play, but I can 1vMultiple on a thief because they actually have the tools to win those kinds of fights. Not because I’m better on a thief. Warriors I can to a lesser extent, but only because with a warrior I can brute force my way through multiple people with sheer damage output. Since necros lack that kind of damage output, you simply can’t get away with that sort of thing. So if you can’t brute force your way through people with damage, and you can’t out last people with superior defense, what do you have left? 1vMultiple on a necromancer is an exercise in futility against competent opponents. Fighting bad or up leveled opponents serves no one in the end. You don’t get better and you sure didn’t win by skill.

The problem I face as a necromancer is 2 fold. 1.) We cannot win attrition fights. Guardians, elementalists, thieves, engineers, and rangers, they all attrition way better. Its not even a contest. This is why in tPvP if you want a bunker to hold a point, you get an ele, guardian, ranger or engineer to do it. Never a necro. While thieves don’t bunker, they win attrition fights because they have a ton of ways to escape and keep coming back for more. 2.) Damage output. People always bring up the dagger main hand, but it has no gap closers, it doesn’t bring any survivability to offset our lack mobility, and it pales in comparison to other classes main DPS weapons. Half the battle is being able to deliver that damage. While Dark Pact and Dark Path help, there are multiple reasons why they don’t work most of the time. Easily telegraphed moves and slow moving easily dodgable projectiles are only a tip of the iceberg. As a warrior I don’t win attrition fights. However, I can brute force my way through most. As a thief, I can win both attrition and if necessary, brute force my way through.

Look, no offense to you, I’ve seen your videos, but a majority of your experience is in PVE. Your WvW video is mostly of you running with a zerg plopping down marks for pitiful damage. Your video where you talk about sPvP you even go on about why you don’t need swiftness and stability because you get it from the guardian on your team. That right there is a big red flag to me. So honestly, I very much doubt you’d lock me down like you claim. More on that below actually.

Another issue I have with the so called “top” necromancers in WvW is when they do finally show us what they’re capable of, all I see are them 1vXing a bunch of up levels, or running with a partner, or stomping people who are hilariously bad at this game. Necromancers do well with a partner, but the minute you need to disengage or get away from superior numbers, you’re kittened. There is nothing you can do. So why bother bringing a necromancer along when you can bring another class, achieve the same results, but not have to worry about running with someone whos going to end up dying all the time as soon as the numbers are no longer in your favor?

Last week there was even a thread about this very thing. A necromancer stepped up and claimed he could beat thieves easily. He was called out on it, and several people stepped up to the challenge. One of the thieves made a video of it. The necromancer wasn’t bad. He used his skills at the correct time, but he didn’t win a single fight against any of these people. Problem is, necromancers simply don’t have the tools to win attrition fights like we’ve been told we’re supposed to. Classes that have no mobility or severely limited mobility really cannot call themselves competitive in this game.

Tournaments are also kind of a joke in this game. I mean this game doesn’t even have a rating system. The system we have now is basically an XP bar that shows how much time you’ve sent in sPvP/tPvP. It does nothing to prevent these people from going up against lower ranked opponents. All of these teams go up against pugs 90% of the time. Class composition doesn’t really matter when you’ve got 5 people on VoIP vs 5 people who aren’t. Saying a necromancers does well in sPvP/tPvP means nothing when you’ve got 4 other people carrying you.

Kravick you do bring up some good points.

I dont think the class is terrible like some view it nor do I think its at the top of the food chain.

Nowdays, for some people, to make information (about their own opinion) and putting them under public domain means to say unequivocally the truth.
The problem is people who put too much effort and time in this class or feel themselves being pro let them develope a major attachment to the Necromancer for a self esteem problem, this is THEIR moment to show their ability, they won’t never say you the Necromancer is broken, it would totally deny their self confidence.
They feel safe in those well known bugged shell, instead of looking far for the real potential.
_ Maybe Necromancer NOW has some kind of potential, but it’s not what come out from a focused project, it’s the result of a chaotic ecosystem grown out of scraps. _

Listen to me, man: Guild Wars 2 has not came out yet for Necromancers, what i suggest you it’s to give it a try to see yourself if it’s ok for you now.
Otherwise let’s wait for a big change again.

Alkaline.2809:

Kravick you do bring up some good points.

I dont think the class is terrible like some view it nor do I think its at the top of the food chain.

First and foremost, I want to make myself clear. I do not think this is a terrible class. It does have its strengths. It IS fun to play. However, it is severely lacking in basic functionality that every class in this game currently has. Escape mechanisms. The class design philosophy that ANet has for us is completely broken with the current state of necromancers. Even the engineer, the only class to have even fewer people playing it than necromancers, has way better attrition and survivability mechanics. It just astonishes me that people can say this class is competitive in any form when the very basic concept ANet has for us doesn’t even fall in line with reality.

I know ANet gave us Death Shroud and a high HP pool to compensate, but they completely fail to understand it simply doesn’t work with all the high damage attacks that other classes enjoy. We cannot avoid these attacks most of the time, so that means we have to face tank it, and the extra HP means nothing when it disappears faster than we can recover it.

Guardians and elementalists are extremely good at attrition fights. Guardians have a ton of ways to avoid damage through boons, knock backs, and healing/regeneration. Elementalists boast some of the best burst healing in the game. Necromancers vampiric skills are a joke. They do not even begin to compare. This is where I feel we need the most attention if we are ever to become the attrition masters that ANet envisioned for us.

I don’t care about doing godly DPS. I have my warrior and thief for that. I DO care about not being the attrition masters that we’ve been promised. The engineer, guardian, elementalist, and ranger do attrition better. This is whats broken and needs to be fixed.

Kravick.4906:

Another issue I have with the so called “top” necromancers in WvW is when they do finally show us what they’re capable of, all I see are them 1vXing a bunch of up levels, or running with a partner, or stomping people who are hilariously bad at this game.

That’s actually a reoccuring theme in any classes’ forum: Haters will always argue that necros in videos were facing underleveled/undergeared noobs, yet when a thief or ele fights off many players at a time it’s “omg, so awesome, best class ever!!”
It implies that other classes always face better players than necromancers do. But take a closer look at ele wvw videos where they survive a long time against many players. It sure is impressive even against all srubs, but if there was one necromancer landing a corrupt boon they would die on the spot.

Kravick.4906:

Classes that have no mobility or severely limited mobility really cannot call themselves competitive in this game.

Measuring the validity of a class by its mobility is just wrong. Btw did you know that one of the most common complaints of mesmers is their little access to swiftness?

Kravick.4906:

Saying a necromancers does well in sPvP/tPvP means nothing when you’ve got 4 other people carrying you.

That also applies to every other class. And especially in tPvP the team outshines the solo strenght of a player.

Kravick.4906:

It just astonishes me that people can say this class is competitive in any form when the very basic concept this game has for survivability is mobility and escape skills.

Seeing mobility as a basic concept for all classes is the wrong approach not only to the necromancer, but other classes too.

Kravick.4906:

Guardians and elementalists are extremely good at attrition fights. Guardians have a ton of ways to avoid damage through boons, knock backs, and healing/regeneration. Elementalists boast some of the best burst healing in the game. Necromancers vampiric skills are a joke. They do not even begin to compare. This is where I feel we need the most attention if we are ever to become the attrition masters that ANet envisioned for us.

Yes they don’t compare, but again: wrong approach.

Luke.4562:

Nowdays, for some people, to make information (about their own opinion) and putting them under public domain means to say unequivocally the truth.
The problem is people who put too much effort and time in this class or feel themselves being pro let them develope a major attachment to the Necromancer for a self esteem problem, this is THEIR moment to show their ability, they won’t never say you the Necromancer is broken, it would totally deny their self confidence.
They feel safe in those well known bugged shell, instead of looking far for the real potential.
_ Maybe Necromancer NOW has some kind of potential, but it’s not what come out from a focused project, it’s the result of a chaotic ecosystem grown out of scraps. _

Listen to me, man: Guild Wars 2 has not came out yet for Necromancers, what i suggest you it’s to give it a try to see yourself if it’s ok for you now.
Otherwise let’s wait for a big change again.

• Sweeping Generalizations of the people who disagree with you
• Generalizes them in a way that makes them seem like they have no idea what they’re actually doing
• Effectively word it so that there are two camps: People who love the necro and suck at the game, people who don’t play necro
• Proceeds to give no advice what-so-ever, or describe the class in actual game mechanics

Man, the last time I saw something like this is when my Prime Minister said that anybody against the Albertan Oil Sands was either a hippy or a foreign celebrity. Less

I mean c’mon bro, you could at least try and be constructive instead of backhanding any part of the community that doesn’t agree with you. It’s why I enjoy reading posts by CHIPS and Kravick and others who actually make an effort in giving the specific reasons why the class is hurting in the community. Why don’t you do the same?

Coming back from playing my engineer for 2+ month, without logging on my necromancer, I just started back playing it 2 weeks ago, stopped because of patch, then this week I’m back on it.

So my point of view come from 2+month of undernumbered roaming in WvW. Like litteraly charging in zerg and spanking them. I die a lot.

Right now, and it’s my personal opinion, I feel like my engineer is better then my necromancer in nearly every aspect.

Note : Take into consideration that I’m not used to my necromancer yet, so it add weight into my preference.

With my engineer, I feel like I can do most thing my necro can do, but better. Let’s just take a HGH build with toolkit and a Master of terror build.

Damage ->
Necromancer damage from condition have a long build up. You need to stack and stack and stack bleed/fear. Fear is a short lasting heavy damage condition. With engineer, you can immob, blow torch, bleed, poison, confusion all in the same combo. Perma stack of burning does a lot more damage over time then 2 fear. And the confusion stack in WvW hit like a truck. Add to this about 20-25 stack of might from HGH, and direct damage from it, I kill a lot faster on my engineer, and I can apply condition a lot faster.

Mobility/Survivability ->
Necromancer have to ether sacrifice an utility for swiftness, use a warhorn or use the signet for 25%. In combat mobility, they have about none : dark patch, spectral walk, Worm(which is awesome). Other then worm, other are really situational and won’t save you if you have to release pressure.

During a team fight, if 2-3 player focus you(and it happens a lot since necrmancer are seen as no escape target and condition dispenser which are annoying) you have nothing except Worm to take a breathing. Sure you can chill them, but most class can ether leap to you, cleans themselve or CC you. Try to chill an elementalist.

Engineer has multiple escape tools. Want an easy way to release pressure? Just use slick shoes, nobody can follow you. Use Elixir S, elixir S toolbelt for 50% chance of stealth. Use AoE immobilize. Stack confusion on them, they won’t pressure anymore.

I don’t feel like Death Shroud is really a life saver. People will just DPS tru it.

If you pressure an Elementalist, and he use myst form, teleport, updraft, RTL etc.. you won’t have the choice but to switch target. Even if you 5 man him at the same time, he will be pretty hard to spike down. He can mitigate a lot of damage with invul skill and mobility.

If you pressure a necromancer, he don’t have much option. Especially on his weapon set. He’s gonna use death shroud. If you are spiking a necromancer and he death shroud, DS will hold for abotu 1-2 sec. Then the necro is dead.

DS is a poor man defence mecanism. You still receive damage and conditions tru it. Not like other invul mecanism or block. I hate not having any vigor, any block, any invul, any escape mecanism (other then worm).

Not sure my post make any kind of sense since I wrote it while being interrupted every two minutes.

And remember, it’s not coming from a hardcore necromancer player.I used to play it a lot, but I stopped for quit a long time. I’m sure once I will be used to the class, it will go smoother then right now. And also it’s coming from a roamer perspective, roaming with 2-3 other guys each night.

Nemesis.8593:

nolop.8095:

This video is a very good representation of the necros state in PvE. It’s no guide but gives a fair overview on how it feels playing a necro.

>>click<<

How many people were in your survey agreed that… that is how necromancers feel ? I am curious because i want to see based on how many hundreds did you based this average.

You know what’s funny ? If this that post was aimed at any other profession, people would most likely just laugh and move on.
But somehow you and several other people try so hard to talk down any ‘negative’ or even ‘jokey’ comments.
I’m curious, why do you feel the need to defend or justify yourself for picking Necro ?
Is it maybe because you think necros are weak yourself, but you don’t want to admit that to yourself because then you would have ‘wasted’ all that time playing necro ?
Or is it just pure fanboy fanatism that does not allow any opinion that is not yours.

I don’t want to insult you. It’s just that I’m baffeled how you try to shout down a very obvious joke. It’s a bit cynical but still, it’s just a joke.

nolop.8095:

Nemesis.8593:

nolop.8095:

This video is a very good representation of the necros state in PvE. It’s no guide but gives a fair overview on how it feels playing a necro.

>>click<<

How many people were in your survey agreed that… that is how necromancers feel ? I am curious because i want to see based on how many hundreds did you based this average.

You know what’s funny ? If this that post was aimed at any other profession, people would most likely just laugh and move on.
But somehow you and several other people try so hard to talk down any ‘negative’ or even ‘jokey’ comments.
I’m curious, why do you feel the need to defend or justify yourself for picking Necro ?
Is it maybe because you think necros are weak yourself, but you don’t want to admit that to yourself because then you would have ‘wasted’ all that time playing necro ?
Or is it just pure fanboy fanatism that does not allow any opinion that is not yours.

I don’t want to insult you. It’s just that I’m baffeled how you try to shout down a very obvious joke. It’s a bit cynical but still, it’s just a joke.

You are such a noob, oh wait… i was just joking. It’s easy to say everything was a joke when things go south. I didn’t have a problem you were saying the class is weak, i had a problem with the way you were saying it. Like everyone knows… that everyone thinks what you think, because you think it, at least that was my impression.

Necromancer has it’s issues, i’ve made suggestions on those in the past. It’s not AS bad as people think… especially in PvE… that’s what i’ve always claimed.

People still think necromancer does the lowest damage in a dungeon, people still think necromancer can never do more then 7k with a single skill, people still think a necromancer can’t go 1v1 with any other class… people still don’t know what epidemic is for, people still don’t use corrupt boon… people still don’t know the importance of bleeding duration, people still go into spite for a full condition build, or into curses for a full berserker build with dagger MH and absolutely no way of applying any bleeds…

I could go on for another few lines, but you get my point.

Those people tend to complain a lot after that…

Kardiamond.6952:

Coming back from playing my engineer for 2+ month, without logging on my necromancer, I just started back playing it 2 weeks ago, stopped because of patch, then this week I’m back on it.

So my point of view come from 2+month of undernumbered roaming in WvW. Like litteraly charging in zerg and spanking them. I die a lot.

Right now, and it’s my personal opinion, I feel like my engineer is better then my necromancer in nearly every aspect.

Note : Take into consideration that I’m not used to my necromancer yet, so it add weight into my preference.

With my engineer, I feel like I can do most thing my necro can do, but better. Let’s just take a HGH build with toolkit and a Master of terror build.

Damage ->
Necromancer damage from condition have a long build up. You need to stack and stack and stack bleed/fear. Fear is a short lasting heavy damage condition. With engineer, you can immob, blow torch, bleed, poison, confusion all in the same combo. Perma stack of burning does a lot more damage over time then 2 fear. And the confusion stack in WvW hit like a truck. Add to this about 20-25 stack of might from HGH, and direct damage from it, I kill a lot faster on my engineer, and I can apply condition a lot faster.

Mobility/Survivability ->
Necromancer have to ether sacrifice an utility for swiftness, use a warhorn or use the signet for 25%. In combat mobility, they have about none : dark patch, spectral walk, Worm(which is awesome). Other then worm, other are really situational and won’t save you if you have to release pressure.

During a team fight, if 2-3 player focus you(and it happens a lot since necrmancer are seen as no escape target and condition dispenser which are annoying) you have nothing except Worm to take a breathing. Sure you can chill them, but most class can ether leap to you, cleans themselve or CC you. Try to chill an elementalist.

Engineer has multiple escape tools. Want an easy way to release pressure? Just use slick shoes, nobody can follow you. Use Elixir S, elixir S toolbelt for 50% chance of stealth. Use AoE immobilize. Stack confusion on them, they won’t pressure anymore.

I don’t feel like Death Shroud is really a life saver. People will just DPS tru it.

If you pressure an Elementalist, and he use myst form, teleport, updraft, RTL etc.. you won’t have the choice but to switch target. Even if you 5 man him at the same time, he will be pretty hard to spike down. He can mitigate a lot of damage with invul skill and mobility.

If you pressure a necromancer, he don’t have much option. Especially on his weapon set. He’s gonna use death shroud. If you are spiking a necromancer and he death shroud, DS will hold for abotu 1-2 sec. Then the necro is dead.

DS is a poor man defence mecanism. You still receive damage and conditions tru it. Not like other invul mecanism or block. I hate not having any vigor, any block, any invul, any escape mecanism (other then worm).

Not sure my post make any kind of sense since I wrote it while being interrupted every two minutes.

And remember, it’s not coming from a hardcore necromancer player.I used to play it a lot, but I stopped for quit a long time. I’m sure once I will be used to the class, it will go smoother then right now. And also it’s coming from a roamer perspective, roaming with 2-3 other guys each night.

Plague form is your answer, especially if you hit it while still healthy. It can take a hell of a beating. If the zerg is on you it will only prolong your life but quite often thats all I need to get to safety. Or while they focus on me my side is tearing them to pieces while I walk them where ever I want, so they either let go or die.

The beauty of necro is that you dont have to be close up to do massive damage, so you can stand back at a safe range of retreat (comparatively) and bomb away with wells and marks. If anyone wants to extend out and attack you there are a lot of control and debuff options to make them regret that decision.

@Kravick

Several times I have posted on this forum a build that will curbstomp anyone in 1v1 and it works very well against multiple opponents. I don’t have the time right now to post the entire build again but it basically revolves around stacking 100% chill time, using sigil of hydromancy on your two weaponsets and utilizing minion uptime/damage traits with lifestealing traits. You use power/toughness/vitality gear with this setup and can easily achieve 27k+ hp with 3k armor.

Necros can compete very well in every aspect of this game. People just need to look for the different builds that are available and there are quite a few with this class that can work in almost any situation.

Kravick.4906:

Ok, show me a build that can roam in WvW or kill people with impunity in tPvP without the support of another class.

Its not that difficult to get a 1v1 Necromancer build, especially considering how strongly we can counter boon-heavy builds, which are big in the current meta. You just don’t see it often because there aren’t a ton of people playing Necro in tPvP that are going to try different builds, most of them are running team-fight builds because everyone knows that Necromancers are very strong there.

I run a few 1v1 builds in tPvP, and with the exception of people who are just plain better than me I can hold my own the entire game.

Kravick.4906:

The problem I face as a necromancer is 2 fold. 1.) We cannot win attrition fights. Guardians, elementalists, thieves, engineers, and rangers, they all attrition way better. Its not even a contest. This is why in tPvP if you want a bunker to hold a point, you get an ele, guardian, ranger or engineer to do it. 2.) Damage output. People always bring up the dagger main hand, but it has no gap closers, it doesn’t bring any survivability to offset our lack mobility, and it pales in comparison to other classes main DPS weapons.

Saying a necromancers does well in sPvP/tPvP means nothing when you’ve got 4 other people carrying you.

1) Except that that depends on your build. All of those classes have a large amount of their attrition based on boons, which we can strip often, and in many cases by flipping into conditions to cause more issues. People don’t use necromancers as bunkers because very few necromancers go out of their way to try new builds, they just know that condition necromancers do really well, and use them. Or they’ll run a minion build, which has issues bunkering in a team fight with the current amount of AoE.

2) We have gap closers to use, its up to you to land them. They aren’t quite as easy as other classes, but far from difficult.

In almost every game, high DPS (which is what Necromancers are played as in tPvP mostly) is always supported by the team, because they are going to go fully damage, with very little investment in survivability. It isn’t that the DPS character couldn’t go more defensive and not need the support, its that they are needed to go full DPS, and so other members of the team specialize into things to support the character who is doing the damage that is winning the fights. This is common in many games, you are having most of the team just set up situations where your highest DPS characters can get their DPS off safely and reliably.

“and base their entire decisions on 100b ability to hit for 20k”

100b can actually hit for 42k plus. That’s why I’m playing my warrior.

Actually the balance is closer than ever imo and it really is more about gear, skill and build vs build than class now. So people saying necro is overpowered or underpowered are both wrong. A big thing I’d like them to sort out for necro is getting easier access to stability and along those lines is death shroud stomp/rez an exploit or not? Fix it either way anet.

@Kravick

Let me encourage to watch the Gameplay Podcasts at SOAC Gaming, the Khalifa ones reflect a Necro in tournament play taking down two to three players without dying. It’s not impossible it just takes more work, and more awareness of positioning. Watch the videos by Talentless on when he solo-roamed.

I am far from a great player (just watch super adventure box :P), but I have 1 v 3’d a group in wvwvw while taking down a supply camp.

Thieves are the masters of hit and run, and so doing a 1v3 is much easier than doing it as a necro because you always have a reset button. As a Necro though, I rarely find a Thief I can’t kill. BTW, 1 v 3 or 1 v 4 as a thief has a lot more to do with how bad your opponent is than anything else. When you can do that as a thief in tournament play than it’s impressive.

I will agree, that Necros are the masters of team support, and we get stronger the more our team grows while a thief gets weaker the larger the group.

Bas.7406:

@Kravick

Let me encourage to watch the Gameplay Podcasts at SOAC Gaming, the Khalifa ones reflect a Necro in tournament play taking down two to three players without dying. It’s not impossible it just takes more work, and more awareness of positioning. Watch the videos by Talentless on when he solo-roamed.

I am far from a great player (just watch super adventure box :P), but I have 1 v 3’d a group in wvwvw while taking down a supply camp.

Thieves are the masters of hit and run, and so doing a 1v3 is much easier than doing it as a necro because you always have a reset button. As a Necro though, I rarely find a Thief I can’t kill. BTW, 1 v 3 or 1 v 4 as a thief has a lot more to do with how bad your opponent is than anything else. When you can do that as a thief in tournament play than it’s impressive.

I will agree, that Necros are the masters of team support, and we get stronger the more our team grows while a thief gets weaker the larger the group.

Along with what Bas said, I would also like to point out that a necro is a much larger threat to zergs than either warriors or thieves. Necros are one of the best PvP classes (IMHO) because of their flexibility to switch between AoE zerg busting builds or powerful 1v1 roaming builds.

Your only limitation may be the amount of gear that you have, but that can always be built up over time. I personally have gearsets for every possible necro build and I like to switch builds and gear according to the situation.

People still think necromancer does the lowest damage in a dungeon, people still think necromancer can never do more then 7k with a single skill… people still go into spite for a full condition build, or into curses for a full berserker build with dagger MH and absolutely no way of applying any bleeds…

People say this because its true. Someone once compared a fight vs a warrior over a ten second period of time. I forgot who it was. Essentially the warrior killed its target in 10 seconds and it took the necromancer 12 seconds to do it. During a short fight, less than 10 seconds, you’re not going to notice a difference. That period of time is to small to make an educated time to kill. This is why. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword That single trait alone is why warriors will beat the pants off necromancers in everything they do. That trait plus 3 targets, they can easily stack up to 25 stacks of might on their own. Necros do about half that in might stacking, and the necromancers damage output is limited to a single target only. Our only ability to do respectable AoE damage is through conditions, which cannot achieve that kind of damage using bleeding alone. Meanwhile, a warrior stacks up 3+ mobs, hits hundred blades, whirlwind, and walks away with a pile of loot and a bunch of dead corpses.

Speaking of damage, I’m aware that a necromancer can do 7k+ damage with a single skill, but they’re using a niche build against a single target. That build will also never survive longer than 2 seconds in PvP because its pure glass. The only reason glass builds work in PvP on other classes is because of mobility, something we all agree that necromancers do not have. They can avoid damage all together, which is superior to simply face tanking it. Additionally, the other classes do that kind of damage to multiple targets and can do that kind of damage with more than just one build in both PvE and PvP.

Necromancer trait trees are an absolute mess that is all over the place, and has little synergy with itself. If you want to make a glass build, you can’t without wasting points on a stat you don’t need. Its why people keep putting points into curses when they want crit. You NEED those points or your crit chance is going to be suboptimal for a crit build. Sadly, to do so, you have to waste those points on also getting 300 condition damage you can’t use. Its part of the reason we don’t have any builds that stand out as OP. It is impossible to achieve the same level of play as the other classes currently because their trees make a lot more sense and don’t look like they’ve been haphazardly thrown together at the last minute.

You wanna know a little secret to MMO class balance? When a class is called out as OP, and you have multiple classes being called out as OP at once, you’ve achieved balance with those classes. Not once has anyone ever called necromancers OP. In PvP, Mesmers, elementalists, guardians, thieves, warriors, even engineers have all been called OP at one point or another. I’ve even heard people call trap rangers OP. Guess what, these classes can actually stand on their own two legs in PvP and win. In the case of rangers, a specific scenario. Against multiple opponents even. They’re not looked down on as a weak class. Not once have I heard someone call out necromancers as OP or, “OH god! Kill it or we’re gonna get wrecked!” It just doesn’t happen. Thats a sign that this class is not up to par with the others.

I wanted to put all this in one post, but posting limits and all.

Its not that difficult to get a 1v1 Necromancer build, especially considering how strongly we can counter boon-heavy builds, which are big in the current meta.

And as soon as you strip them, those boons go right back on. The classes that rely on boons are classes that have a far easier time reapplying their boons than we have stripping them. Especially against guardians who just turn the conditions right back into boons once they’ve been corrupted with: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Contemplation_of_Purity Its also a frickin stun breaker! Our role as a bunker buster gets completely negated by a single skill. GG. Elementalists gain those boons right back every time they switch attunements, which is every 3 seconds it seems.

These 1v1 builds also do horribly in tPvP, as anyone who is bunkering up on a point is going to call for backup the minute they see you. Even with boon stripping, you can’t kill them fast enough before backup arrives. We do not have the burst to kill a bunker in the time it takes for their teammates to arrive.

People don’t use necromancers as bunkers because very few necromancers go out of their way to try new builds, they just know that condition necromancers do really well, and use them.

No, people don’t use necromancers as bunker because we can’t bunker as well as the classes that are used for bunker. Bunker is the very essence of attrition. You need to hold out long enough for your teammates to arrive. Sadly, even a bunker necro dies to a burst thief in short order. We simply cannot block or avoid incoming damage like elementalists, guardians, rangers, and engineers can. Their invulnerability skills are primarily why we will never succeed as a bunker class.

2) We have gap closers to use, its up to you to land them. They aren’t quite as easy as other classes, but far from difficult.

We have exactly 1. Its easily dodged because its slow, it suffers from the same problem all projectiles suffer fro*OBSTRUCTED*, its easily out ranged because people can literally walk out of its 900 range due to its slow projectile speed. Our one gap closer is hampered by kittenty game mechanics. This seems to be a reoccurring theme with this class. Not only do we have to fight our opponents, but we also have to fight the game mechanics themselves just to have a fighting chance. Even if we do land Dark Path (which isn’t a gap closer. Leaps and teleports are gap closers), there is nothing stopping people from just dropping the chill effect and walking way from us. Dark Pact is in the same boat, but is way to easily dodged because of the telegraphed move and extremely long cast time.

Let me encourage to watch the Gameplay Podcasts at SOAC Gaming, the Khalifa ones reflect a Necro in tournament play taking down two to three players without dying. It’s not impossible it just takes more work, and more awareness of positioning. Watch the videos by Talentless on when he solo-roamed.

I’ve watched most of them. Your podcasts are nothing new to me. There is no secret revelation or hidden tidbit of information among them that made me go “OOOOOOH THATS WHY!”. Its all stuff I’ve already figured out for myself… months ago. I’ve seen Talentless’ videos. Its… lets just say I am less than impressed. I honestly believe he’d do a lot better if he played a different class. I don’t want to insult the poor guy so I’ll just stop there.

Khalifa is nothing special. I don’t understand peoples infatuation with him. His build is very niche and only works in tPvP because of group play. Catch him by himself and he dies extremely quickly. Hes not some godly PvPer and even he admits that if he is caught out of position he dies extremely easily. Hell, all you have to do is focus fire him even if he is with his teammates and he goes down extremely easily. I honestly feel he’d do a lot better as a thief, as thats how he plays, and his team would be better off for it.

I rarely find a Thief I can’t kill.

Uh huh. Forgive me if I don’t believe you. I’ve heard this A LOT on these forums, and very VERY rarely is it ever true. You know, someone said that very same thing last week also. There was even a video made of it. He got curbstomped by every single thief he fought. Necromancers are joke to kill while playing my thief. Harder to kill with my warrior, takes a little longer, but I can do it easily enough.

Kravick.4906:

“OH god! Kill it or we’re gonna get wrecked!” It just doesn’t happen. Thats a sign that this class is not up to par with the others.

Necromancers are the first targets of many tPvP teams because of exactly that, and because most Necro builds are glassy (and so die easily). If you leave a decent necro alone in a team fight, they are going to kill everyone.

Bhawb.7408:

Kravick.4906:

“OH god! Kill it or we’re gonna get wrecked!” It just doesn’t happen. Thats a sign that this class is not up to par with the others.

Necromancers are the first targets of many tPvP teams because of exactly that, and because most Necro builds are glassy (and so die easily). If you leave a decent necro alone in a team fight, they are going to kill everyone.

No. They get focused because they’re easy to kill and go down extremely easily. Simply denying the other team a player. Nothing more. It is definitely not what you think it is. They might kill everyone… in about 5 years as thats how long it takes them to kill people with conditions. Necros have no burst that equals the other classes, so they’re no real threat against people who know how to use dodge intelligently.