Guild Wars 2

ionix.9054:

I rolled a necro because people call out the other classes I play as, cheap, easy, forgiving, OP etc. Please tell me what class in this game isn’t OP? My options are running out

A non hammer warrior, dd thief, meditation guardian (I wouldn’t call AH guards op, but meh), power necro, gs mesmer, rifle engineer, elementalist in general and that’s all I got.

Looking at my list, just seems like conditions are a kitten.

Since dhuumfire made it’s appearance I’ve just had to avoid necromancer’s on all my other non necro classes because I can’t afford to have a utility bar full of cleanses when I go up against anything that isn’t a necro. It just makes my day that much better when all these fotm necro’s stalk me to the other end of the map hoping I end up in combat so they can melt me.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Pretty sure the blind spam from thieves is supposed to be X/P

Well yeah, I’m well aware of that, though it seems that TheDevice isn’t. \

Anyway, this thread has strayed way off topic now, so I apologise for derailing it.

TheDevice.2751:

Maesk.8753:

Woah there, slow down a little. First, p/d has no smoke field, where am I getting that from? Am I running it as a utility instead of something actually useful? I guess the second blind is from the trait in shadow arts (blind on stealth), wheres the third from? Another utility? Basically the blinds you’re mentioning have nothing to do with a particular weapon set like you implied.

Unless you were mistaking p/d for d/p this whole time?

Second, I never said a condi fight against a necro was a good idea. Anywhere in my post. A condi fight against a necro is indeed a bad idea, why? Because of your full cleanse heal, high HP and condi transfers.

Third, That traits is actually really bad. Why would you ever run it when you could run vigorous recovery or fleet of shadow instead?

I never said it had a built-in smoke field. I said it has 3 potential blinds. Based on a utility sure. But you’re saying p/d has no blinds im saying it does. Like saying dhummfire has no effect since its in a trait line that provides no condition damage or crit chance.

You want to complain about what then exactly? The necro’s range on stacking conditions? Like… MoB? You don’t have enough dodges? Scepter auto attacks? Should necro’s also primarily stack conditions in melee range AND have the worst escapes and mobility in the game?

I never said thieves condi was melee range, I said thieves burst was melee range. At this point you’re just making stuff up.
Again, you seemed to imply that p/d had a lot of blinds, so by naming a particular weapon set, I figured you meant the blinds came from that weapon set.

To be fair, I was originally replying to nemisis, and you’re the one who started debating me. So what was it you were trying to achieve?

Anyway, since you seem to just make stuff up as you go along, and change your argument post to post. Im out.

Later taters.

Maesk.8753:

TheDevice.2751:

Maesk.8753:

Woah there, slow down a little. First, p/d has no smoke field, where am I getting that from? Am I running it as a utility instead of something actually useful? I guess the second blind is from the trait in shadow arts (blind on stealth), wheres the third from? Another utility? Basically the blinds you’re mentioning have nothing to do with a particular weapon set like you implied.

Unless you were mistaking p/d for d/p this whole time?

Second, I never said a condi fight against a necro was a good idea. Anywhere in my post. A condi fight against a necro is indeed a bad idea, why? Because of your full cleanse heal, high HP and condi transfers.

Third, That traits is actually really bad. Why would you ever run it when you could run vigorous recovery or fleet of shadow instead?

I never said it had a built-in smoke field. I said it has 3 potential blinds. Based on a utility sure. But you’re saying p/d has no blinds im saying it does. Like saying dhummfire has no effect since its in a trait line that provides no condition damage or crit chance.

You want to complain about what then exactly? The necro’s range on stacking conditions? Like… MoB? You don’t have enough dodges? Scepter auto attacks? Should necro’s also primarily stack conditions in melee range AND have the worst escapes and mobility in the game?

I never said thieves condi was melee range, I said thieves burst was melee range. At this point you’re just making stuff up.
Again, you seemed to imply that p/d had a lot of blinds, so by naming a particular weapon set, I figured you meant the blinds came from that weapon set.

To be fair, I was originally replying to nemisis, and you’re the one who started debating me. So what was it you were trying to achieve?

Anyway, since you seem to just make stuff up as you go along, and change your argument post to post. Im out.

Later taters.

blahhh my argument was dont like 3 posts ago idk what you’re on about. My simple point is that thieves don’t have it hard sry. I was defending dhummfire vs a thief who is obviously having trouble.

I never said p/d thieves had built-in blinds but you keep saying that for some reason. So who’s making stuff up. Well then you figured wrong just like I might have and just like these arguments go anyways XD

And I didnt originally debate with you you made a reply post to mine before I edited my original one with the added reply to yours. My post was towards the OP not you. So you’re making stuff up again. XD

ionix.9054:

I rolled a necro because people call out the other classes I play as, cheap, easy, forgiving, OP etc. Please tell me what class in this game isn’t OP? My options are running out

Ranger. Everyone hates them. Lot of fractals LFG discritptions contains “NO RANGER” (well, and “no necro” aswell.)

What about invulnerable one button perma evade/stealth spamming thieves or perma stun/cc spamming warriors ? If you are speaking about wvw gang roaming these need to be nerfed before dhuumfire. I don’t care about dhuumfire(already not using it) if they nerf these too along with dhuumfire. I would be more pleased if they remove dhuumfire and give greater marks trait back to adept tier.(needs 20 points just because of dumbfire)

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

ionix.9054:

I rolled a necro because people call out the other classes I play as, cheap, easy, forgiving, OP etc. Please tell me what class in this game isn’t OP? My options are running out

Ranger. Everyone hates them. Lot of fractals LFG discritptions contains “NO RANGER” (well, and “no necro” aswell.)

Well, currently every class except warrior and guardian is a loss of efficiency both in pve and wvw. Other classes are just played for fun and they are optional.
They are never specially wanted in somewhere, they are never specially searched in dungeon parties. Best wvw raids can be done with 65% hammer warrior + 35% guardians.
Aoe stability + aoe cc determines the winner in wvw. Because current wvw meta is cc spam to disable enemies before they use their skills.
Best dungeon speedruns are done with warriors. Other classes in this game are only optional, not mandatory.

all i hear are kids crying and saying “wehhh there are these new things called condition builds now that are starting to overcome my power builds weehhhhh”

dhuumfire is pretty useless.

Burning in general is op. Spam burn even with no condi dmg = win.

I have shocking news: condinecros are so last year. You should play ele, warrior or guardian, especially in wvw with guard leech and other fair stuff.

So by broken you mean you don’t like it. Check.

We all seem to be missing the point.

Fire & Life, is the WRONG GOD.

‘Burst’ Damage OVER TIME, is…

By themselves half duration burning, with long CD. Or fear + 2k damage, is weak. (Unless you manage to fear someone off a clif and they fall to there death)
The problem here is, more condi’s than can be cleansed.
It’s as un-fun and cheap.
(So is, being CC spamed by warriors, having class’s just immune to your damage/CC, perm invis.)

Passive stuff going on, is also un-skilled and un-fun. Not just for the people on the receiving end, but on the casting side.

What were after is, this counters that. The depth of play, to out-wit and out-play your opponent.

I want every condition in the game because as a necro, I like to debuff people until they look like something that came out of the mental ward.

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

Oh I should also mention that I think it would be fair to take away burning if in return we had greater life force generation on condition weapons. So we could at least try to play attrition better. Otherwise we need the damage.

Dhuumfire is OP, but the game is balanced around stuff, every class has something over the top and everyone abuses it. Was bored so decided to play my oldi condi build 0/30/0/10/30 and it was horrible, not because its bad but just every person runs something OP and if you dont have the dmg of dhuumfire they just kill you before you can kill them.
If instead of giving out broken stuff, anet would nerf it then the balance would be better and there would be more viable specs.

Stx.4857:

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

I have never ran dumbfire and I have had 0 (zero) issues with my damage.
you just have to know when and how to condi burst

Are you remember the old days when 100 blades was an “unavoidable op skill”? Well, learn to play, said the devs.
Dhuumfire was introduced to give necroes some extra damage. “OMG its stupid nerf it!” said the players. Well, learn to play and get more cleanse, said necromancers.
And the almighty nerfbat slaped us in the face, because nobody need to learn to play.

Suffer my brothers. Suffer and bring this pain in to battle and unleash it on our enemies.

Brando.1374:

Stx.4857:

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

I have never ran dumbfire and I have had 0 (zero) issues with my damage.
you just have to know when and how to condi burst

So you basicly admit there is nothing wrong with dhuumfire?

aspirine.6852:

Brando.1374:

Stx.4857:

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

I have never ran dumbfire and I have had 0 (zero) issues with my damage.
you just have to know when and how to condi burst

So you basicly admit there is nothing wrong with dhuumfire?

My comment was directed at this comment “Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions”

and Dumbfire is just that DUMB! No skill, no timing, just 12345789 spam. so yes its broken and should be removed and all nerfs as a result of this stupid trait should be reverted.

Argueing with a Thief isnt possible.

This is a Duel from this week:

I said “are we going with no stax but food”

Thief replied “yea thats the best way”

I hit a few Critters cause I had no Life Force empty since a previous fight.

Thief said “Come on dont stack Life Force Before duel”

I said “Life Force is our only save vs Backstab m8”

Thief said “you have to wait until the Duel start then get LF and spawn Golem”

I tought long and hard and wondered what mushroom this Thief had bin nibbling on, Golem fine dosent matter only need it for maybe 1 KD but 0%LF noway.

I finally said " Ok I wont stack LF if u dont use Steal"

A lot of players think starting a duel with 0 LF is the proper etiquette. I am not sure how I feel about that, because that seems like a pretty big handicap, and in wvw we are usually running around with 100% LF… so why should we start with 0? IDK.

Brando.1374:

aspirine.6852:

Brando.1374:

Stx.4857:

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

I have never ran dumbfire and I have had 0 (zero) issues with my damage.
you just have to know when and how to condi burst

So you basicly admit there is nothing wrong with dhuumfire?

My comment was directed at this comment “Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions”

and Dumbfire is just that DUMB! No skill, no timing, just 12345789 spam. so yes its broken and should be removed and all nerfs as a result of this stupid trait should be reverted.

I do not know of the nerfs before dhuumfire. But you say you do more damage and do not use it?

aspirine.6852:

Brando.1374:

aspirine.6852:

Brando.1374:

Stx.4857:

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

I have never ran dumbfire and I have had 0 (zero) issues with my damage.
you just have to know when and how to condi burst

So you basicly admit there is nothing wrong with dhuumfire?

My comment was directed at this comment “Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions”

and Dumbfire is just that DUMB! No skill, no timing, just 12345789 spam. so yes its broken and should be removed and all nerfs as a result of this stupid trait should be reverted.

I do not know of the nerfs before dhuumfire. But you say you do more damage and do not use it?

there where no nerfs before dumbfire. all the nerfs came after it was introduced in game.
Also I dont feel I need burning to keep my dmg high, like I said in my first responce. you need to learn when and how to condi burst ppl down instead of spamming which is what most necro’s after the dumbfire patch have been doing.

There is no question Dhuumfire is strong, removing it however will significantly lower necro’s damage so we will need to be compensated elsewhere. More access to torment? faster bleeds? condi on wells?

This turned into a necro vs thief kittenfest. sorry but thieves win hands down. they are way more in need of a buff and frankly necros are OP in every aspect of the game but in pve where they are only situationally useful at best. Necros have access to some of the best defensive utilities if they are condition and some of the best AOE abilities if they decide to go power. now dhummfire and terror are not OP by themselves. no. the only imbalance comes from the speed at which bleeds, cripples, chills and weakness can be reapplied which is abysmal. combine that with untelegraphed/op auto attacks with the scepter and your looking at a condition applying machine. The patch when necros got buffed and warriors were still in their old state before condi removal was so pathetic that necros were literally unbeatable(since all necros seem to do these days is complain about how warriors destroy them). Even with cleansing ire and berserker stance, 2 of the best condition managing abilities in the game, you cannot outlast a necro.
Engis unlike necros have a massive downside, their defense suffers from lack of util. they also lack the ability to apply as many bleeds as a necro does therefore their entire DPS is lower. Necros need to stop complaining about power builds. if you cant dodge, break stun or kite you deserve to die, being a necro doesnt entitle you to winning every fight. salvage what little respect is left for your class and do me a favor because unlike warriors, necros are still redeemable from the OP changes they were given.

Epic.3950:

This turned into a necro vs thief kittenfest. sorry but thieves win hands down. they are way more in need of a buff and frankly necros are OP in every aspect of the game but in pve where they are only situationally useful at best. Necros have access to some of the best defensive utilities if they are condition and some of the best AOE abilities if they decide to go power. now dhummfire and terror are not OP by themselves. no. the only imbalance comes from the speed at which bleeds, cripples, chills and weakness can be reapplied which is abysmal. combine that with untelegraphed/op auto attacks with the scepter and your looking at a condition applying machine. The patch when necros got buffed and warriors were still in their old state before condi removal was so pathetic that necros were literally unbeatable(since all necros seem to do these days is complain about how warriors destroy them). Even with cleansing ire and berserker stance, 2 of the best condition managing abilities in the game, you cannot outlast a necro.
Engis unlike necros have a massive downside, their defense suffers from lack of util. they also lack the ability to apply as many bleeds as a necro does therefore their entire DPS is lower. Necros need to stop complaining about power builds. if you cant dodge, break stun or kite you deserve to die, being a necro doesnt entitle you to winning every fight. salvage what little respect is left for your class and do me a favor because unlike warriors, necros are still redeemable from the OP changes they were given.

Best way to learn kiting and dodging is playing zerk necro. They are OP that way. Now that it’s nearly impossible to keep defensive conditions on target and LF is more difficult to keep up it’s about only way to stay alive.

Brando.1374:

aspirine.6852:

Brando.1374:

aspirine.6852:

Brando.1374:

Stx.4857:

Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions. We could give up some defensive stats for more crit, but we don’t have stability either so we need our high armor/HP to survive.

When people complain about Necro burst, what they are really complaining about is that they are CC’d during this burst, because in reality, the damage is nothing compared to power builds.

Personally, I don’t think burning fits a Necromancer, but I would at least want more access to Torment in place of Dumbfire.

As for the idea of making Dumbfire an AE burning in Deathshroud… do you realize how much more OP that would be? lol.

I have never ran dumbfire and I have had 0 (zero) issues with my damage.
you just have to know when and how to condi burst

So you basicly admit there is nothing wrong with dhuumfire?

My comment was directed at this comment “Honestly, if they took away burning, I feel that Necro’s wouldn’t deal enough damage to compete with other professions”

and Dumbfire is just that DUMB! No skill, no timing, just 12345789 spam. so yes its broken and should be removed and all nerfs as a result of this stupid trait should be reverted.

I do not know of the nerfs before dhuumfire. But you say you do more damage and do not use it?

there where no nerfs before dumbfire. all the nerfs came after it was introduced in game.
Also I dont feel I need burning to keep my dmg high, like I said in my first responce. you need to learn when and how to condi burst ppl down instead of spamming which is what most necro’s after the dumbfire patch have been doing.

Unfortunately, we will continue to see nerfs come our way because of dhuumfire spite fear combos.

Not necessarily. Jon Peters himself made the suggestion of tying Dhuumfire to Life Blast. He also said that they have discussed moving both Dhuum and Terror to gm Curses many times already, or even creating a torment variation of it.
Maybe they will end up doing both, burning on LB in Spite and a torment version of Dhuumfire together with Terror in Curses…
Either way, I’m not too pessimistic about it, even though such changes might take months to finally make it in the game.

I enjoy dhummfire as a concept. bleeding and poison doesn’t feel like enough variety and in games that offered necromancers and demonologist the later playing like a fire themed necro i always enjoy the hell out of that class. getting condition duration up to 70% makes that skill real nice.

Not as an replacement but more a thematic alternative (since burning doesn’t stack, its a waste having it twice in a group, and some of us might want to be more loyal to grenth) I was thinking of a grandmaster skill called Grenthfrost. One that added damage to chill. might encourage more CC in game. Add a bit of pressure into a condition more “native” to a classic gw necromancer. Either way, I’d hate to see burning go all together. I’ll leave it up to people who’ve played long enough(still fairly new) to decide if its balanced at present but i hate the idea of not being able to bow to a fallen god for a little bit of hell fire in some form or another To those of you arguing that burning isn’t necessary to put out enough damage. This is likely entirely true but personally i’d rather do my damage through as many avenues simultaneously as possible. Its why i’m playing a hybrid. I don’t think dhuumfire should be required but i don’t think everyone wants a build that focus’s on one line of damage output.

A Thief that gets Signet of Spite from a good Necro put on him DIES, Dhummfire or not.
Thieves whine because of 1 simple fact: when they jump a Necro they expected a easy,slow-moveing target (wich tnx to Signet showing they new were a Nec). And when they jump on a Power Necro they will get there 9k Backstabs, if the Necro has some Life Force the Thief will just patienctly lower it by jumping in and out of stealth every 2-3s until no Life Force remains and the Best Dodge-Roll Nec in the World wont be a match for an AVERAGE Thief.

Now with Condi-Burst builds featuring Dhumfire,Bleeds,Terror(Always bin there btw) there precious Backstab Zerker builds is in for a World of pain when a Signet of Spite hits them and no-cleanse build that was so cool just seems so underpowered…

Even more fun is it when they jump on a Condi-Burst Nec who may have specced Reapers Protection aswell for that xtra 4ticks of Terror on a incomming CC-Skill, hurts dont it ? I know. I felt it for 12months as a Necro yet I still stayed on 2500Hours+

Go whine somewhere else, Iam all out of sympathy.